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(York Press, UK)   Towns' speed limits are unenforceable because they are posted on signs, rather than announced to drivers by telepathic transmission as the law requires   (yorkpress.co.uk) divider line 49
    More: Stupid, North Yorkshire, speed limits, North Yorkshire Police, transmissions  
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14790 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jul 2012 at 12:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-26 12:11:15 PM
I RTFA and still don't have a clue what's going on.
 
2012-07-26 12:11:33 PM
We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies

THE F*CK I DO!

By me visiting your website you agree to give me one (pinky to mouth) BILLION dollars.
MUHAHAHAHAHA
 
2012-07-26 12:11:52 PM
Wait, what? If you put up too many speed limit signs it invalidates the speed limit?
 
2012-07-26 12:13:40 PM
Reading the article twice, it sounds like they're being held as too low for the road.

"The road is well lit with good visibility. Therefore your arbitrarily low speed limit is invalid."
 
2012-07-26 12:16:49 PM

mightybaldking: I RTFA and still don't have a clue what's going on.


This. What language do these farkers speak?
 
2012-07-26 12:22:22 PM
There are so many weasel words in that article, you can't tell if the article is saying anything or not.

And the passive voice, the passive voice all over the place hurting my head.

"We've secretly replaced the original article with an article written in the most indirect manner possible. Let's see if our readers notice." /Folgers
 
2012-07-26 12:22:51 PM
I hope someone will translate this into American, because as far as I can tell, they can't post a speed limit of 30 mph anywhere the streetlights are closer than 200 feet? I just don't get it.

/also, streetlights
 
2012-07-26 12:23:37 PM
FTFA: a highly complex subject with many different issues".

Americans: Ow! My brain!
 
2012-07-26 12:24:12 PM
So, do you nuts drive in mph or kph?

/keed, keed
 
2012-07-26 12:25:48 PM
Many villages have signposted speed limits of 30mph in areas where street lights are spaced 200 yards apart or less, but according to traffic regulations, this should not happen.

at first I was like "this article is confusing and dumb" but then I just realized it's from England so it makes perfect sense.


/over-regulated nanny state
 
2012-07-26 12:26:06 PM

TheZorker: Reading the article twice, it sounds like they're being held as too low for the road.

"The road is well lit with good visibility. Therefore your arbitrarily low speed limit is invalid."


Ok, snark aside, you helped.

I think this is what happened:
1) The towns set the speed limit
2) The towns later went and added street lights less that 200 yards apart
3) The lights made the already existing speed limit too low for the road

I still don't get the part about the repeater signs, but it seems tangential to the main article.
 
2012-07-26 12:27:25 PM

neversubmit: FTFA: a highly complex subject with many different issues".

Americans: Ow! My brain!


That's just an excuse for the author not understanding it either and writing a crap article. It has nothing to do with American reading comprehension. The article itself is a travesty of English and journalism and should be hung around the author's neck like a dead albatross.
 
2012-07-26 12:27:35 PM
HUMPHREY: All right, settle down. Settle down. [clunk] Now, before I begin the lesson, will those of you who are playing in the match this afternoon move your clothes down onto the lower peg immediately after lunch, before you write your letter home, if you're not getting your hair cut, unless you've got a younger brother who is going out this weekend as the guest of another boy, in which case, collect his note before lunch, put it in your letter after you've had your hair cut, and make sure he moves your clothes down onto the lower peg for you. Now,--

WYMER: Sir?

HUMPHREY: Yes, Wymer?

WYMER: My younger brother's going out with Dibble this weekend, sir, but I'm not having my hair cut today, sir.

PUPILS: [chuckling]

WYMER: So, do I move my clothes down, or--

HUMPHREY: I do wish you'd listen, Wymer. It's perfectly simple. If you're not getting your hair cut, you don't have to move your brother's clothes down to the lower peg. You simply collect his note before lunch, after you've done your scripture prep, when you've written your letter home, before rest, move your own clothes onto the lower peg, greet the visitors, and report to Mr. Viney that you've had your chit signed.
 
2012-07-26 12:28:02 PM
I'm wondering if these "restricted roads" are like US highways that typically have a speed of 45-65 depending on the area they are in and perhaps these towns have artificially lowered the speed limit to 30mph even though there's no need to drop the speed because they are well lighted. That's my best guess at this. The author of the article should have explained what kind of roads these are and why that regulation is in place.
 
2012-07-26 12:29:31 PM

Ecobuckeye: I hope someone will translate this into American, because as far as I can tell, they can't post a speed limit of 30 mph anywhere the streetlights are closer than 200 feet? I just don't get it.

/also, streetlights


Although the article failed to mention it for readers outside the UK, it's because there is already a national law in place stating that roads outside city limits, with streetlights closer than 200', have a standard 45 MPH limit. Local authorities cannot override this limit, so posting a "30 MPH" limit sign does not give the locals the authority you fine you for going 45 MPH.

/The more you know
 
2012-07-26 12:29:46 PM

bubo_sibiricus: neversubmit: FTFA: a highly complex subject with many different issues".

Americans: Ow! My brain!

That's just an excuse for the author not understanding it either and writing a crap article. It has nothing to do with American reading comprehension. The article itself is a travesty of English and journalism and should be hung around the author's neck like a dead albatross.


The author didn't say it, Temporary Inspector Lindsey Stamp did, stop proving my point.
 
2012-07-26 12:30:32 PM

KeithLM: I'm wondering if these "restricted roads" are like US highways that typically have a speed of 45-65 depending on the area they are in and perhaps these towns have artificially lowered the speed limit to 30mph even though there's no need to drop the speed because they are well lighted. That's my best guess at this. The author of the article should have explained what kind of roads these are and why that regulation is in place.


Could be like the US too where towns set the speed limit arbitrarily low in the middle of a certain stretch and have officers hiding just to catch speeders.
 
2012-07-26 12:33:36 PM

Ecobuckeye: I hope someone will translate this into American, because as far as I can tell, they can't post a speed limit of 30 mph anywhere the streetlights are closer than 200 feet? I just don't get it.

/also, streetlights


In the matter of streetlights - there seems to be two classifications: footway, and carriageway.
The entire situation is terribly silly - do we meet the standard to post an infinite number of signs to enforce a traffic rule on a restricted road? Yes, because our streetlights are classified for use by pedestrians, not drivers.

Fark it... give me something complicated to think about... like - when making a sandwich, why would anyone put the cheese on the piece of bread they just spread mustard on? That's just wrong.
 
2012-07-26 12:34:03 PM
Maybe it makes more sense in Esperanto:

Akcelante automovilistas en vilaĝoj tra Nord Yorkshire povis eviti persekutadon pro leĝaj fenestreto, polico akceptita.

Vojoj estroj estas efektivigi revizio "kiel prioritato" en du apartaj vilaĝoj, Cawood kaj Riccall inter Jorko kaj Selby, sed kredas similaj problemoj povas ekzisti aliloke.

Multaj vilaĝoj kiuj signposted rapido limoj de 30mph en areoj kie strato lumoj interspacigitaj 200 metrojn apartaj aŭ malpli, sed laŭ trafiko regularoj ĉi ne devus okazi.

Temporal Inspektisto Lindsey Stamp enketis kaj diris tn "ripetilo signoj", reliefigante la 30mph limo, "estas eksplicite malpermesis restriktita vojoj", kaj kiam metita apud strato lumigado, povas fari devigo "malfacila kaj challengeable".

Insp Stamp diris lokaj konsilantaroj ŝajnis esti meti la ripetilo signojn al re-efikigi la 30mph limigo, sed la problemo estis "ne nepre estas kazo de nekompetenteco, sed tre kompleksa temo kun multaj malsamaj aferoj".

Stillingfleet, Kelfield kaj Wistow ĉiuj estis esplorita, sed konsideris kongrua.

Polico estis faritaj konscias pri la temo per unu loĝanto, kiu ne volas esti nomita, kiu diris: "Ĝi kolizioj mi ke la temo estas tre vasta kaj ĝi verŝajne ne nur tiuj vilaĝoj inter Selby kaj York, sed multaj ĉirkaŭ la graflando frontas rapido limoj kiuj estas tute unenforceable kaj estis dum multaj jaroj. "

En letero al la loĝanto, Insp Stamp diris: "En la kazo de Stillingfleet, Kelfield, Riccall kaj Wistow, North Yorkshire County Council starigis ripetilo signoj ene de la vilaĝo ĉirkaŭaĵo kaj malgraŭ la fakto ke ekzistas sistemo de strato lumoj malpli ol 200 metrojn sube.

"Al Restricted Road ne povas havi Trafiko Reglamento Ordo (TRO), sur ĝin igante ĝin 30mph rapido limo. Tial, se Restricted Road estas tiel kontrolis (per 30mph TRO) la leĝaro estas misa kaj la rapido limo ne ekzistas, estas challengeable kaj ŝoforoj ne povas esti kondamnita.

Insp Stamp diris multajn de la trafiko ordonoj datita al la 1960, kiam la vilaĝoj povas ne havis strato lumigado, kaj diris la stato de la vojoj ne estis reviziitaj de la trafiko aŭtoritato.

A komuna deklaro de North Yorkshire County Council kaj North Yorkshire Polico akceptis revizion de signage en Cawood kaj Riccall estus "efektivigis kiel prioritato", sed diris la plimulto de vilaĝoj en la unua raporto estis korekte subskribis.

Ĝi diris: "Kiel rezulto de tiuj maltrankviloj ni recenzis la 30mph rapido limoj en Stillingfleet, Kelfield kaj Wistow vilaĝoj kaj ĉi tio konkludis ili subskribis ĝuste kaj laŭ spertulo jura konsilo komisiita antaŭe por la Provinca Konsilio. Ripetilo signoj estas necesaj por tiuj apartaj rapido limojn ĉar la lumigado en la vilagxoj estis klasita kiel footway lumigado kaj ne carriageway lumigado. Se la lumigado estis de norma sufiĉa al esti klasita kiel carriageway lumigado, tiam la uzo de ripetilo signoj laux la vojo ne estus konvena. "
 
2012-07-26 12:36:27 PM
special20 [TotalFark]
Fark it... give me something complicated to think about... like - when making a sandwich, why would anyone put the cheese on the piece of bread they just spread mustard on? That's just wrong.


I lived on mustard and cheese sandwiches when I was homeless.
 
2012-07-26 12:38:21 PM
Pop-over at the websithe reads:

"We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use. [ I Agree ]"

WTF? This must be some new law in the UK. Anyway, b0bye.
 
2012-07-26 12:40:27 PM

Dirtybird971: I lived on mustard and cheese sandwiches when I was homeless.


Well, I'm sure that might taste good if you roll it up and smoke it... but the combo is not my cup-o-joe, really. Oh sure, I'll have a sandwich that contains both mustard, and cheese, but they have to be separated by another ingredient.

/housed people problem
//bat-shiat crazy sammich rules
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-26 12:41:49 PM
I RTFA and still don't have a clue what's going on.

In England and Wales the speed limit is 30 if street lights are 200 yards apart or closer, and 60 if street lights are more than 200 yards apart or absent entirely. The distinction is comparable to the residential/rural distinction in parts of America where the limit changes from 25 to 55 depending on how far apart houses are. But over there it is illegal to post 30 mph signs in a lit-up 30 mph zone. They don't want drivers to be conditioned to expect the speed limit to be posted on signs.
 
2012-07-26 12:43:56 PM

fossilhippie: Maybe it makes more sense in Esperanto:


What someone that speaks Esperanto might look like:

g-ecx.images-amazon.com

fictional
 
2012-07-26 12:44:07 PM
I have, myself, always been amused by municipalities which put up yellow speed limit signs and then are shocked that people pay them no mind.
 
2012-07-26 12:50:26 PM
I am in favor of telepathic transmission of speed limits, because you just know this would happen every so often
i2.listal.com
It would amuse me.
 
2012-07-26 12:51:26 PM

mightybaldking: I RTFA and still don't have a clue what's going on.



All I remember about driving in the UK is that you had to drive backwards in order to see the traffic signs.

What a royal pain.
 
2012-07-26 12:54:35 PM
The author didn't explain how English traffic laws work, because he presumes his audience is English and went to school. It's a local story, for cryi.

It's obvious from context that the UK has national laws that set speed limits based on the type of road/lighting/etc. These villages have put up signs setting a local speed limit that is too low for the type of lighting they have, so they're unenforceable. Or maybe not; they may claim to have footpath lighting, vs. road lighting, so maybe the limit is OK. They're investigating.

/Reading, not that hard.
//Seriously, who gives a shiat about English village speed limits being enforceable? Someone might drive 40 mph! Without a reflective safety vest! We'll all be killed!
 
2012-07-26 12:54:37 PM

fossilhippie: Maybe it makes more sense in Esperanto:

Akcelante automovilistas en vilaĝoj tra Nord Yorkshire povis eviti persekutadon pro leĝaj fenestreto, polico akceptita.

Vojoj estroj estas efektivigi revizio "kiel prioritato" en du apartaj vilaĝoj, Cawood kaj Riccall inter Jorko kaj Selby, sed kredas similaj problemoj povas ekzisti aliloke.

Multaj vilaĝoj kiuj signposted rapido limoj de 30mph en areoj kie strato lumoj interspacigitaj 200 metrojn apartaj aŭ malpli, sed laŭ trafiko regularoj ĉi ne devus okazi.

Temporal Inspektisto Lindsey Stamp enketis kaj diris tn "ripetilo signoj", reliefigante la 30mph limo, "estas eksplicite malpermesis restriktita vojoj", kaj kiam metita apud strato lumigado, povas fari devigo "malfacila kaj challengeable".

Insp Stamp diris lokaj konsilantaroj ŝajnis esti meti la ripetilo signojn al re-efikigi la 30mph limigo, sed la problemo estis "ne nepre estas kazo de nekompetenteco, sed tre kompleksa temo kun multaj malsamaj aferoj".

Stillingfleet, Kelfield kaj Wistow ĉiuj estis esplorita, sed konsideris kongrua.

Polico estis faritaj konscias pri la temo per unu loĝanto, kiu ne volas esti nomita, kiu diris: "Ĝi kolizioj mi ke la temo estas tre vasta kaj ĝi verŝajne ne nur tiuj vilaĝoj inter Selby kaj York, sed multaj ĉirkaŭ la graflando frontas rapido limoj kiuj estas tute unenforceable kaj estis dum multaj jaroj. "

En letero al la loĝanto, Insp Stamp diris: "En la kazo de Stillingfleet, Kelfield, Riccall kaj Wistow, North Yorkshire County Council starigis ripetilo signoj ene de la vilaĝo ĉirkaŭaĵo kaj malgraŭ la fakto ke ekzistas sistemo de strato lumoj malpli ol 200 metrojn sube.

"Al Restricted Road ne povas havi Trafiko Reglamento Ordo (TRO), sur ĝin igante ĝin 30mph rapido limo. Tial, se Restricted Road estas tiel kontrolis (per 30mph TRO) la leĝaro estas misa kaj la rapido limo ne ekzistas, estas challengeable kaj ŝoforoj ne povas esti kondamnita.

Insp Stamp diris multajn de la trafiko ordonoj datita al la 1960, kiam la vilaĝoj povas ne havis strato lumigado, kaj diris la stato de la vojoj ne estis reviziitaj de la trafiko aŭtoritato.

A komuna deklaro de North Yorkshire County Council kaj North Yorkshire Polico akceptis revizion de signage en Cawood kaj Riccall estus "efektivigis kiel prioritato", sed diris la plimulto de vilaĝoj en la unua raporto estis korekte subskribis.

Ĝi diris: "Kiel rezulto de tiuj maltrankviloj ni recenzis la 30mph rapido limoj en Stillingfleet, Kelfield kaj Wistow vilaĝoj kaj ĉi tio konkludis ili subskribis ĝuste kaj laŭ spertulo jura konsilo komisiita antaŭe por la Provinca Konsilio. Ripetilo signoj estas necesaj por tiuj apartaj rapido limojn ĉar la lumigado en la vilagxoj estis klasita kiel footway lumigado kaj ne carriageway lumigado. Se la lumigado estis de norma sufiĉa al esti klasita kiel carriageway lumigado, tiam la uzo de ripetilo signoj laux la vojo ne estus konvena. "


Nope. Though to be fair, nothing has ever made more sense in Esperanto.

And why do I need to quote the whole post on the mobile Fark?
 
2012-07-26 12:58:06 PM
So no lowering speed limits ridiculous levels to generate revenue? Nice.
 
2012-07-26 01:08:40 PM

neversubmit: FTFA: a highly complex subject with many different issues".

Americans: Ow! My brain!


One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle.
 
2012-07-26 01:12:40 PM
Temporary Inspector Lindsey Stamp has investigated and said so-called "repeater signs", highlighting the 30mph limit, "are expressly prohibited from restricted roads", and when placed alongside street lighting, may make enforcement "difficult and challengeable".

Insp Stamp said local councils appeared to have put up the repeater signs to re-enforce the 30mph limit, but the problem was "not necessarily a case of incompetence, but a highly complex subject with many different issues".


Inspector Stamp? Oh for the love of..... Go Go Gadget Christ you idiots make something as simple as a faking streetlight impossible to understand within yourselves. When someone asks why, I get the feeling that your prepared response is "It's company policy", You can't explain that.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-26 01:13:51 PM
So no lowering speed limits ridiculous levels to generate revenue? Nice.

No, the speed limit was automatically lowered to 30 when they installed street lights. The rule says no posting of 30 mph speed limits to warn drivers. They could post a speed limit of 40 or 50 mph, but if they want to keep the limit at 30 they have to leave the road without signs.
 
2012-07-26 01:19:51 PM

Loreweaver: Although the article failed to mention it for readers outside the UK...


Your location and the location of this article are making me dizzy.

/Used to live in one of these places
//Will not say which one
 
2012-07-26 01:20:23 PM

fossilhippie: Maybe it makes more sense in Esperanto:


I was thinking it had to be written in Babylonian.
 
2012-07-26 01:21:49 PM
If this is in the UK, why are they using mph and yards for their units? I thought the UK was fully metric.
 
2012-07-26 01:37:13 PM

ZAZ: So no lowering speed limits ridiculous levels to generate revenue? Nice.

No, the speed limit was automatically lowered to 30 when they installed street lights. The rule says no posting of 30 mph speed limits to warn drivers. They could post a speed limit of 40 or 50 mph, but if they want to keep the limit at 30 they have to leave the road without signs.


And good on them for it. There's some areas near me where there's so many signs no one even notices them any more. Then we've got to have a red light put in where a crosswalk used to work because now no one's paying attention to the crosswalk signs.

\And then pedestrians hit the button for the red light and cross before it even turns every single time, leaving a line of cars waiting at a purposeless red, so it's not doing anything for either foot or vehicle traffic.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-26 01:42:02 PM
Then we've got to have a red light put in where a crosswalk used to work because now no one's paying attention to the crosswalk signs.

Yellow crosswalk warning signs beside the road are mostly if not entirely useless. I like the plastic signs in the middle of the street. They draw the eye to the place it needs to be to notice people crossing the street.
 
2012-07-26 01:45:18 PM
That is, flat out, the dumbest thing I've ever read. Everyone named or implied should be ashamed of themselves.
 
2012-07-26 02:02:25 PM
Easy solution: Take out some of the streetlights.
 
2012-07-26 02:53:18 PM
What I gathered from the article was that the signs are invalid since they do not include braille for blind drivers.
 
2012-07-26 02:58:29 PM

ZAZ: I RTFA and still don't have a clue what's going on.

In England and Wales the speed limit is 30 if street lights are 200 yards apart or closer, and 60 if street lights are more than 200 yards apart or absent entirely. The distinction is comparable to the residential/rural distinction in parts of America where the limit changes from 25 to 55 depending on how far apart houses are. But over there it is illegal to post 30 mph signs in a lit-up 30 mph zone. They don't want drivers to be conditioned to expect the speed limit to be posted on signs.


My apologies for my earlier post. i could have sworn it was 45. I could swear I read it in another UK article a long while ago. I may have confused it with a different ordinance.
 
2012-07-26 03:24:40 PM
"A Restricted Road can not have a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO)

www.itsasickness.com
 
2012-07-26 03:48:50 PM

ZAZ: Then we've got to have a red light put in where a crosswalk used to work because now no one's paying attention to the crosswalk signs.

Yellow crosswalk warning signs beside the road are mostly if not entirely useless. I like the plastic signs in the middle of the street. They draw the eye to the place it needs to be to notice people crossing the street.


We use both here. The ones in the middle of the road are typically only used on low traffic, slower roads, e.g. a residential road near a school. The ones on the side of the road also have flashing yellow lights activated by a button and are used on faster, higher traffic roads. They work well most places. The problem areas are places that are visually busy in one way or another -- lots of traffic signs, a high density of stop lights and the associated stop and go traffic, lots of parked cars, and busy sidewalks that aren't separated from the street.
 
2012-07-26 04:30:57 PM
There is an unwritten law in the UK that if anyone shows knowledge of a particular law then said law shall be rendered incomprehensible.
 
2012-07-26 04:40:23 PM
GIS has failed me, I can't find a pic of one of the 'Speed Limit Enforced by E.S.P.' signs from Pennsylvania. :(

/miss those, as well as the "Speed Enforced Electrically" (sic) signs.
 
2012-07-26 07:26:35 PM

Loreweaver: Ecobuckeye: I hope someone will translate this into American, because as far as I can tell, they can't post a speed limit of 30 mph anywhere the streetlights are closer than 200 feet? I just don't get it.

/also, streetlights

Although the article failed to mention it for readers outside the UK, it's because there is already a national law in place stating that roads outside city limits, with streetlights closer than 200', have a standard 45 MPH limit. Local authorities cannot override this limit, so posting a "30 MPH" limit sign does not give the locals the authority you fine you for going 45 MPH.

/The more you know


Thank you. I figured it was something like this, I just didn't know the details.
 
2012-07-26 08:40:43 PM
Wasn't there an episode of The Three Stooges where they were mis-hired as road bosses in a land where they drive on the wrong side?
 
MrT
2012-07-27 05:53:42 PM
Ok, I'm from the UK and I don't get why this makes enforcement an issue.

You'd have to get a very pedantic magistrate to dismiss this kind of case on such a weak technicality.

You're basically saying: well, your honour, that road was subject to a nationally specified speed limit of 30mph, but the signage was claiming that the road was subject to a locally specified speed limit of 30mph. Since the signage was inconsistent with the actual status of the road's speed limit, no speed limit at all can be applied to that road.

You would have to get the judge to accept that you could not be prosecuted for speeding no matter how fast you were going, since you are admitting that you were perfectly aware of what the speed limit should have been. This is going to be a pretty tough sell.
 
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