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(The New York Times)   What Kentucky Basketball can teach Penn State. Conspicuously absent: Ball-handling skills   (nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Kentucky Basketball, Penn State, Kentucky, Bill O'Brien, Rick Pitino, Gator Bowl, Christian Laettner, academic fraud  
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1094 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Jul 2012 at 2:03 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-07-25 01:13:46 PM  
Hire Rick Pitino?
 
2012-07-25 01:49:35 PM  
Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?
 
2012-07-25 01:56:24 PM  
Nooooooooooooookay that's funny
 
2012-07-25 02:07:30 PM  

IAmRight: Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?


So...hire John Calipari?
 
2012-07-25 02:09:39 PM  

mitchcumstein1: IAmRight: Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?

So...hire John Calipari?


Exactly.

I'm looking forward to their 2011 and 2012 seasons being vacated some day.
 
2012-07-25 02:10:47 PM  
Duke still sucks though, right?

/or is it too soon?
 
2012-07-25 02:16:34 PM  
Hater's gonna hate.
 
2012-07-25 02:18:27 PM  
So Penn State's coach will oversee a return to prominence, leave for a mediocre stint in the NFL, and wind up as the head coach at Pitt.
 
2012-07-25 02:25:48 PM  

mitchcumstein1: IAmRight: Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?

So...hire John Calipari?


PowerSlacker: mitchcumstein1: IAmRight: Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?

So...hire John Calipari?

Exactly.

I'm looking forward to their 2011 and 2012 seasons being vacated some day.


Awwwww, did somebody's favowite team get embawassed by Kentucky this year?
 
2012-07-25 02:28:56 PM  

IAmRight: Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?


You know what, I'm gonna go to a place I didn't think I'd get to, mentally, but you've pushed me there:

When Marcus Camby was found to be taking money from an agent, who turned him in to the NCAA? (Hint- it was John Calipari). The NCAA then stripped UMass of its 1996 Final Four appearance.

When Corey Maggette was found to have taken money from an agent, who turned him in to the NCAA? (Hint- no one). The NCAA did not strip Duke of its 1999 Final Four appearance.

Calipari is seen as some sort of shady character, and Mike Krzyzewski is held as the paragon of "we do it right". One of the two had the moral courage to turn in his own program, even if its accomplishments would be tarnished. The other... well, he's building a legacy for himself that's almost unprecedented in college sports.

One of those two coaches seems easy to compare to Joe Paterno. Which one?
 
2012-07-25 02:32:46 PM  
I think the new coach would be more interested in what Navy and Air Force football coaching and playing style can teach him than anything else.

You can compete without the scholarships and the size if you get the right players and teach the right system.
 
2012-07-25 02:35:33 PM  
Scariest thing in that article is that the Gator Bowl is being sponsored by Taxslayer.com. Seriously? That's not scraping the bottom of the barrel of sponsorship, that's digging through the barrel and nearing the Mohorovičić discontinuity.
 
2012-07-25 02:37:26 PM  

EyeballKid: Awwwww, did somebody's favowite team get embawassed by Kentucky this year?


Favorited.
 
2012-07-25 02:41:13 PM  

Gonz: When Corey Maggette was found to have taken money from an agent, who turned him in to the NCAA? (Hint- no one). The NCAA did not strip Duke of its 1999 Final Four appearance.


If no one turned him in, how did he get caught?
 
2012-07-25 02:45:09 PM  
All outrage aside, the single best thing Kentucky did was clean house in the athletics department. I don't want to say that the AD, Cliff Hagan, was shady, but under his watch, Kentucky won the SEC. In FOOTBALL. That's "we're not even trying to hide it" level-cheating.

You've got to throw a whole lot of sunshine into some dark places, and there are going to be some interesting repercussions as a result. For example, I know that the UK Compliance Director is a woman named Sandy Bell, and that she is one of the best at her job, period. Now, on the one hand, it's great to know that there's a very competent professional looking out for a team you support. On the other hand, it says something when a large chunk of a school's fanbase knows the name of the freaking Compliance Officer.

Oh, and don't expect everyone to get over the scandal... well, ever, really. There are people in Lexington to this day who will tell you that Eddie Sutton was just the victim of a conspiracy, rather than cheating like a madman.
 
2012-07-25 02:50:52 PM  

SuperChuck: Gonz: When Corey Maggette was found to have taken money from an agent, who turned him in to the NCAA? (Hint- no one). The NCAA did not strip Duke of its 1999 Final Four appearance.

If no one turned him in, how did he get caught?


Federal investigation and trial. ESPN story

Google "Myron Piggie" if you'd like to know more. The first link is VERY obviously biased, but it seems to be well-sourced.
 
2012-07-25 02:51:32 PM  

SuperChuck: Gonz: When Corey Maggette was found to have taken money from an agent, who turned him in to the NCAA? (Hint- no one). The NCAA did not strip Duke of its 1999 Final Four appearance.

If no one turned him in, how did he get caught?


IIRC, the payments to Maggette were revealed as part of an investigation of the agent who made the payments. The agent had also made payments to other players at other schools.
 
2012-07-25 03:20:51 PM  

EyeballKid: Awwwww, did somebody's favowite team get embawassed by Kentucky this year?


Nope, they sure didn't.

John Calipari is just a dirtbag.
 
2012-07-25 03:22:22 PM  
Crafting leaders of character!

www.meadecountykygop.org
 
2012-07-25 03:27:10 PM  

mitchcumstein1: EyeballKid: Awwwww, did somebody's favowite team get embawassed by Kentucky this year?

Nope, they sure didn't.

John Calipari is just a dirtbag.


And what, pray tell, has he done that has made him such a dirtbag in your eyes? Or, is your argument against him based on ESPN bobbleheads' opinions and the "Well, I mean, just look at him!" factor?
 
2012-07-25 03:33:52 PM  

EyeballKid: mitchcumstein1: EyeballKid: Awwwww, did somebody's favowite team get embawassed by Kentucky this year?

Nope, they sure didn't.

John Calipari is just a dirtbag.

And what, pray tell, has he done that has made him such a dirtbag in your eyes? Or, is your argument against him based on ESPN bobbleheads' opinions and the "Well, I mean, just look at him!" factor?


Well, the two vacated Final Fours to start.

And don't tell me he didn't know, and had no idea. If he didn't know he's an idiot and a cheat.
 
2012-07-25 03:38:32 PM  

Gonz: All outrage aside, the single best thing Kentucky did was clean house in the athletics department. I don't want to say that the AD, Cliff Hagan, was shady, but under his watch, Kentucky won the SEC. In FOOTBALL. That's "we're not even trying to hide it" level-cheating.

You've got to throw a whole lot of sunshine into some dark places, and there are going to be some interesting repercussions as a result. For example, I know that the UK Compliance Director is a woman named Sandy Bell, and that she is one of the best at her job, period. Now, on the one hand, it's great to know that there's a very competent professional looking out for a team you support. On the other hand, it says something when a large chunk of a school's fanbase knows the name of the freaking Compliance Officer.

Oh, and don't expect everyone to get over the scandal... well, ever, really. There are people in Lexington to this day who will tell you that Eddie Sutton was just the victim of a conspiracy, rather than cheating like a madman.


The ones I know won't claim UK wasn't cheating, but the conspiracy was the package falling open to catch UK. Kind of like someone wanted to try and make UK the SMU of college basketball.
 
2012-07-25 03:42:08 PM  

mitchcumstein1: And don't tell me he didn't know, and had no idea. If he didn't know he's an idiot and a cheat.


I hate getting into this, you might as well debate religion.

Anyway, Calipari turned in Marcus Camby, so he found out, and did something about it.

The NCAA freaking cleared Derrick Rose to play, not once, but twice. There was not a coach in America that would not have taken him that year.

You would think someone whose program has been in trouble in the past decade, not to mention the bullshiat ruling concerning Josh Selby would be a bit more hesitant to throw stones.
 
2012-07-25 03:42:35 PM  

Gonz: You know what, I'm gonna go to a place I didn't think I'd get to, mentally, but you've pushed me there:


I'm pretty sure Rick Pitino is the guy who got hired and is mentioned in the article. Cal seems bad but he's had some good image rehab and I don't give enough of a sh*t about college basketball to go check it out.
 
2012-07-25 03:43:05 PM  
Headline made this PSUer laugh.
 
2012-07-25 03:43:22 PM  

babysealclubber: mitchcumstein1: And don't tell me he didn't know, and had no idea. If he didn't know he's an idiot and a cheat.

I hate getting into this, you might as well debate religion.

Anyway, Calipari turned in Marcus Camby, so he found out, and did something about it.

The NCAA freaking cleared Derrick Rose to play, not once, but twice. There was not a coach in America that would not have taken him that year.

You would think someone whose favorite program has been in trouble in the past decade, not to mention the bullshiat ruling concerning Josh Selby would be a bit more hesitant to throw stones.


For clarification
 
2012-07-25 03:43:30 PM  

Gonz: IAmRight: Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?

You know what, I'm gonna go to a place I didn't think I'd get to, mentally, but you've pushed me there:

When Marcus Camby was found to be taking money from an agent, who turned him in to the NCAA? (Hint- it was John Calipari). The NCAA then stripped UMass of its 1996 Final Four appearance.

When Corey Maggette was found to have taken money from an agent, who turned him in to the NCAA? (Hint- no one). The NCAA did not strip Duke of its 1999 Final Four appearance.

Calipari is seen as some sort of shady character, and Mike Krzyzewski is held as the paragon of "we do it right". One of the two had the moral courage to turn in his own program, even if its accomplishments would be tarnished. The other... well, he's building a legacy for himself that's almost unprecedented in college sports.

One of those two coaches seems easy to compare to Joe Paterno. Which one?


I know there's a Duke lacrosse joke in there somewhere but damn if I searched and can't find it.
 
2012-07-25 03:44:26 PM  

mitchcumstein1: Well, the two vacated Final Fours to start.

And don't tell me he didn't know, and had no idea. If he didn't know he's an idiot and a cheat.


Yes, it is often that college basketball coaches go to tests with their players, to give them a good pep talk beforehand. And, of course, by turning in Marcus Camby, Calipari was obviously putting the final piece of his master plan into place, which started when he told Camby to hire said agent, right?


Just admit it. Your favorite school sucks at basketball. Good news is, maybe they have a good track/soccer/tennis/swim/golf team you could start following.
 
2012-07-25 03:52:59 PM  

EyeballKid: mitchcumstein1: Well, the two vacated Final Fours to start.

And don't tell me he didn't know, and had no idea. If he didn't know he's an idiot and a cheat.

Yes, it is often that college basketball coaches go to tests with their players, to give them a good pep talk beforehand. And, of course, by turning in Marcus Camby, Calipari was obviously putting the final piece of his master plan into place, which started when he told Camby to hire said agent, right?


Just admit it. Your favorite school sucks at basketball. Good news is, maybe they have a good track/soccer/tennis/swim/golf team you could start following.


The actual good news is that they haven't sold out their program and school for meaningless championships. But I wouldn't expect a rabid UK fan like yourself to see that. None of my friends do.

Although championship night was pretty fun on campus.
 
2012-07-25 03:54:02 PM  

babysealclubber: You would think someone whose program has been in trouble in the past decade, not to mention the bullshiat ruling concerning Josh Selby would be a bit more hesitant to throw stones.


The Kansas basketball program has not been in trouble in the last decade. Unless you're counting the coach at Carolina giving gifts to graduating players as being in trouble.

EyeballKid: mitchcumstein1: Well, the two vacated Final Fours to start.

And don't tell me he didn't know, and had no idea. If he didn't know he's an idiot and a cheat.

Yes, it is often that college basketball coaches go to tests with their players, to give them a good pep talk beforehand. And, of course, by turning in Marcus Camby, Calipari was obviously putting the final piece of his master plan into place, which started when he told Camby to hire said agent, right?


Just admit it. Your favorite school sucks at basketball. Good news is, maybe they have a good track/soccer/tennis/swim/golf team you could start following.


Yes, Kansas does not have a very good basketball program at all, you're right.
 
2012-07-25 03:57:02 PM  

NaziKamikaze: The actual good news is that they haven't sold out their program and school for meaningless championships. But I wouldn't expect a rabid UK fan like yourself to see that. None of my friends do


Right, 'cos there's a college sports program that isn't like that. I don't even want to imagine what'll happen when you find out about Santa Claus.

mitchcumstein1: Yes, Kansas does not have a very good basketball program at all, you're right.


0-2 this year. Nope. Not that good at all.
Rock.
Choke.
Jayhawk.
 
2012-07-25 04:01:36 PM  

mitchcumstein1: The Kansas basketball program has not been in trouble in the last decade. Unless you're counting the coach at Carolina giving gifts to graduating players as being in trouble.


If that's all you took from that post, I'm sorry. But anyway, from 2006:

The University of Kansas has been penalized by the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions for major violations in men's basketball and football and for a lack of institutional control.

The violations include a booster providing more than $5,000 in benefits to two basketball players and their families; the majority of the benefits were provided to one student-athlete before and after he enrolled at the university. Two other boosters provided graduation gifts to outgoing basketball players with the knowledge of athletics department personnel.


Link
 
2012-07-25 04:05:46 PM  

mitchcumstein1: The Kansas basketball program has not been in trouble in the last decade. Unless you're counting the coach at Carolina giving gifts to graduating players as being in trouble.


Or, y'know, the massive ticket scandal that had Federal agents and the IRS roaming through Lawrence.

Remember that one? It was, like, two years ago.

But, hey, if it makes you feel better to forget that Kansas was on probation when they won the 2008 NCAA Tournament, more power to you. In fact, since "Kentucky's Shame", hasn't Kansas been barred from the postseason at least once?

Oh, yeah, after the 1988 championship, when they were shown to have given illegal benefits to players... that's the first team ever to not be allowed to defend their title, if I remember right.

Rock, cheat, Jayhawk.
 
2012-07-25 04:12:04 PM  

babysealclubber: mitchcumstein1: The Kansas basketball program has not been in trouble in the last decade. Unless you're counting the coach at Carolina giving gifts to graduating players as being in trouble.

If that's all you took from that post, I'm sorry. But anyway, from 2006:

The University of Kansas has been penalized by the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions for major violations in men's basketball and football and for a lack of institutional control.

The violations include a booster providing more than $5,000 in benefits to two basketball players and their families; the majority of the benefits were provided to one student-athlete before and after he enrolled at the university. Two other boosters provided graduation gifts to outgoing basketball players with the knowledge of athletics department personnel.


Link


The booster was a friend of Darnell Jackson's family going way back if I recall. And Jackson paid the money back, and sat games because of it. Kansas lost one scholarship for two years, but that's close to vacating Final Fours.

One time, I chalk it up to everybody being a little dirty, twice though? Come on, it's a pattern.

I know that Kansas has had kids that had issues getting in, Selby, Rush, Arthur, and I'm not stupid, everybody is a little dirty, but they've never had to vacate a season or a Final Four. I'm not disparaging Kentucky, I like Kentucky's program historically, I just don't like John Calipari, and nothing you say will change that.
 
2012-07-25 04:13:36 PM  

mitchcumstein1: I know that Kansas has had kids that had issues getting in, Selby, Rush, Arthur, and I'm not stupid, everybody is a little dirty, but they've never had to vacate a season or a Final Four. I'm not disparaging Kentucky, I like Kentucky's program historically, I just don't like John Calipari, and nothing you say will change that.


No, Kansas just couldn't defend their 1988 title.
 
2012-07-25 04:17:14 PM  

Gonz: Or, y'know, the massive ticket scandal that had Federal agents and the IRS roaming through Lawrence.


Which didn't have anything to do with anybody in the basketball program.

Gonz: But, hey, if it makes you feel better to forget that Kansas was on probation when they won the 2008 NCAA Tournament, more power to you. In fact, since "Kentucky's Shame", hasn't Kansas been barred from the postseason at least once?



Actually, that happened before all that went down with Kentucky.

Since "Kentucky's Shame," which happened after the 1989 season, Kansas has been to the NCAA tournament every year.

Oh, yeah, after the 1988 championship, when they were shown to have given illegal benefits to players... that's the first team ever to not be allowed to defend their title, if I remember right.

That happened. Larry ran fast and loose.

I have no issue with Kentucky, I don't like John Calipari.
 
2012-07-25 04:21:20 PM  

babysealclubber: mitchcumstein1: I know that Kansas has had kids that had issues getting in, Selby, Rush, Arthur, and I'm not stupid, everybody is a little dirty, but they've never had to vacate a season or a Final Four. I'm not disparaging Kentucky, I like Kentucky's program historically, I just don't like John Calipari, and nothing you say will change that.

No, Kansas just couldn't defend their 1988 title.


Yes, 25 years and two coaches ago, Kansas got in trouble, they haven't been in major trouble since.

Look, none of them are clean, they all cheat, I just don't like the way Calipari goes about doing it.
 
2012-07-25 04:53:32 PM  
What about Darrell Arthur? There were many people who said that his grades were changed in high school and that he never should have graduated. But since he was cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse and Kansas didn't actually have anything to do with his grades being changed, the NCAA just let it go.

But at the same time Derrick Rose was cleared, not once but twice, but they went back and ruled him ineligible because they say someone else may have taken his SAT for him and therefore stripping Memphis of their final four appearance.

Makes you wonder what would've happened to Kansas if Memphis could've made a free throw down the stretch. Or would it have played out the same way?
 
2012-07-25 05:10:22 PM  
what kentucky basketball can teach penn state? nothing. penn state already knows that if you're popular enough you can get away with almost anything...after all, the rabid fan base won't believe those evil lies told in the media. the fans know you're the bestest ever and can't understand why the media and the ncaa are out to unjustly destroy the program. it's probably because everyone else is just jealous of the team's incredible success.
 
2012-07-25 05:46:37 PM  

EyeballKid: NaziKamikaze: The actual good news is that they haven't sold out their program and school for meaningless championships. But I wouldn't expect a rabid UK fan like yourself to see that. None of my friends do

Right, 'cos there's a college sports program that isn't like that. I don't even want to imagine what'll happen when you find out about Santa Claus.


We are talking about UK, not other schools. I realize you have nothing of value to say so you change the subject and put it on me. I shouldn't have even bothered.
 
2012-07-25 06:22:35 PM  

A Fark Handle: what kentucky basketball can teach penn state? nothing. penn state already knows that if you're popular enough you can get away with almost anything...after all, the rabid fan base won't believe those evil lies told in the media. the fans know you're the bestest ever and can't understand why the media and the ncaa are out to unjustly destroy the program. it's probably because everyone else is just jealous of the team's incredible success.


To a point, you're fit. However, UK fans will admit when we cheated and deserved to get in trouble. And we sure as shiat wouldn't defend a kiddie rape enabler
 
2012-07-25 06:39:47 PM  

babysealclubber: To a point, you're fit. However, MOST UK fans will admit when we cheated and deserved to get in trouble. And we sure as shiat wouldn't defend a kiddie rape enabler


Fixed that for you. In my experience, you should never make declarative statements about the entire UK fanbase. There are some folks who swear loyalty to UK (although they never attended school there... or graduated from high school) who will make you claim to be a fan of a different team, just so no one will associate you with them.
 
2012-07-25 06:53:48 PM  
IIRC, the payments to Maggette were revealed as part of an investigation of the agent who made the payments. The agent had also made payments to other players at other schools.

Yep - other players, who were punished, at other schools, which were punished - but nothing for Maggette and Duke.
 
2012-07-25 08:35:04 PM  

Gonz: babysealclubber: To a point, you're fit. However, MOST UK fans will admit when we cheated and deserved to get in trouble. And we sure as shiat wouldn't defend a kiddie rape enabler

Fixed that for you. In my experience, you should never make declarative statements about the entire UK fanbase. There are some folks who swear loyalty to UK (although they never attended school there... or graduated from high school) who will make you claim to be a fan of a different team, just so no one will associate you with them.


3.bp.blogspot.com

"The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect."

/That's quite brilliant
 
2012-07-25 09:33:01 PM  

PowerSlacker: mitchcumstein1: IAmRight: Don't bother pretending to have morality and just hire people who are openly sleazy, then no one will be surprised at any scandal and therefore it won't be a story?

So...hire John Calipari?

Exactly.

I'm looking forward to their 2011 and 2012 seasons being vacated some day.


Hah, "some day." Good luck with that.,
 
2012-07-25 11:10:39 PM  
What Kentucky basketball can teach Penn State:

If you pay off enough higher-ups in the NCAA, you can get away with ANYTHING.
 
2012-07-25 11:16:41 PM  

mitchcumstein1: I have no issue with Kentucky, I don't like John Calipari.


HOW DARE YOU imply that one can separate a program (rich with a history of cheating) from a head coach (rich with a history of cheating).

Incidentally, how dare you use tact to address someone whose argument is "your school sucks and sucks at basketball, so you're totes jelly cray cray."
 
2012-07-26 12:15:17 AM  

EyeballKid:

Awwwww, did somebody's favowite team get embawassed by Kentucky this year?


Lifetime Kentucky fan here, and especially of UK basketball. John Calipari is a dirtbag, and I'm ashamed he was hired. I don't want to see one of the few teams I ever cheer for lose its wins because its coach is slime.

Still love UK, still cheer for the players, but fully expect the wins to be voided 10 years from now.
 
2012-07-26 12:42:33 AM  
27.media.tumblr.com

/Obligatory
 
2012-07-26 01:32:07 AM  

cefm: I think the new coach would be more interested in what Navy and Air Force football coaching and playing style can teach him than anything else.

You can compete without the scholarships and the size if you get the right players and teach the right system.


Whats the combined ARMY and NAVY record vs the BIG10 in the last 20 years?

you can compete against lower tier teams. Penn State still has talent. 3 years from now could get uggggggly.
 
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