If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Hardball Talk)   Phillies' payroll for 2013 is $133 million. For only nine players   (hardballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 62
    More: Dumbass, Cole Hamels, Chase Headley, Ryan Dempster, Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Beltre, Hunter Pence, Zack Greinke, Josh Johnson  
•       •       •

702 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Jul 2012 at 2:45 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



62 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-07-25 01:23:37 PM  
After an exhaustive 2 minute search, I have concluded that pictures of Hal and/or Hank Steinbrenner laughing do not exist.
 
2012-07-25 01:53:46 PM  
As a Mets fan, i am filled with great joy to see them in last place.
 
2012-07-25 02:46:40 PM  
The rest of the '13 roster is gonna come from AA?
 
2012-07-25 02:51:50 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: After an exhaustive 2 minute search, I have concluded that pictures of Hal and/or Hank Steinbrenner laughing do not exist.


Hank has a permanent scowl and Hal is a robot.
 
2012-07-25 03:06:54 PM  

ManateeGag: As a Mets fan, i am filled with great joy to see them in last place.


Don't worry. Still plenty of time for the Mets to take their rightful place there by season's end.
 
2012-07-25 03:08:16 PM  
They could probably spent 1 millionth of that and still be in last place.
 
2012-07-25 03:09:25 PM  

srhp29: They could have probably spent 1 millionth of that and still be in last place.


G'dmnit
 
2012-07-25 03:10:35 PM  
Opening day roster next year:

$25 Mill for Cliff Lee (Age 34)
$20 Mill for Ryan Howard (Age 33)
$20 Mill for Roy Halladay (Age 36)
$15 Mill for Chase Utley (Age 34)
$13 Mill for Jonathon Papelbon (Age 32)
$11 Mill for Jimmy Rollins (Age 34)

That's some damn fine roster construction for a team that's 10 games under .500
 
2012-07-25 03:13:24 PM  
That's, like, half a Yankee.
 
2012-07-25 03:14:39 PM  
If the Phillies win a world series in 2013, the Yankee haters who harp about their payroll will give the Phillies the same treatment, right?
 
2012-07-25 03:16:02 PM  

idesofmarch: If the Phillies win a world series in 2013, the Yankee haters who harp about their payroll will give the Phillies the same treatment, right?


As a noted hater of Philadelphia sports teams, the answer is yes. BTW, fark the Yankees.
 
2012-07-25 03:22:09 PM  
As I recall, you only need 9 players on a team to play baseball.

So, what's your point, subby?
 
2012-07-25 03:23:29 PM  

studleystudstutterson: Opening day roster next year:

$25 Mill for Cliff Lee (Age 34)
$20 Mill for Ryan Howard (Age 33)
$20 Mill for Roy Halladay (Age 36)
$15 Mill for Chase Utley (Age 34)
$13 Mill for Jonathon Papelbon (Age 32)
$11 Mill for Jimmy Rollins (Age 34)

That's some damn fine roster construction for a team that's 10 games under .500


And on the hook for those salaries for 4-5 years in most cases.

Wouldn't mind seeing the Braves spend a little on some pitching or a second baseman, though.
 
2012-07-25 03:25:44 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: As I recall, you only need 9 players on a team to play baseball.

So, what's your point, subby?


A bold strategy in starting two pitchers in the outfield.

Holy crap, are you Tony LaRussa?
 
2012-07-25 03:26:55 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: As I recall, you only need 9 players on a team to play baseball.

So, what's your point, subby?


Spending all that money just to have a last place team I think. Also spending money on a bunch of guys over 30.
 
2012-07-25 03:27:28 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: ManateeGag: As a Mets fan, i am filled with great joy to see them in last place.

Don't worry. Still plenty of time for the Mets to take their rightful place there by season's end.


I know. The collapse has already begun.
 
2012-07-25 03:27:50 PM  

Hobo Jr.: Wouldn't mind seeing the Braves spend a little on some pitching or a second baseman, though.


Not happy with Dan Uggla? *ducks*

Did Beachy get a raw deal this year, or what...great ERA, a .BAA of .171 for crying out loud, but no run support, and who knows when he'll be able to pitch again.
 
2012-07-25 03:31:06 PM  
I'm ok with them bottoming out this year to grab a top draft pick. With Utley's injury, they were in trouble so why not just rest the arms and recharge. Howard's injury was the kind that takes 2 years to heal anyhow.

Of course as a Phillies fan, I know that Howard is supposed to carry them into the playoffs then take a break so that Carlos Ruiz can win them a title.

/I miss Edge
 
2012-07-25 03:31:25 PM  

Killer Cars: Hobo Jr.: Wouldn't mind seeing the Braves spend a little on some pitching or a second baseman, though.

Not happy with Dan Uggla? *ducks*

Did Beachy get a raw deal this year, or what...great ERA, a .BAA of .171 for crying out loud, but no run support, and who knows when he'll be able to pitch again.


I'm always told by Braves Superfans (I am a big fan but not on the level of those guys) that because Uggla knocks in runs, his 3rd grader in the bigs batting average is okay. Because you know...a guy who hits less homers and hits 50-70 points higher wouldn't score more runs and knock in as many runs as Uggla...Because Homeruns are all that matter to some.
 
2012-07-25 03:34:16 PM  

Killer Cars: Hobo Jr.: Wouldn't mind seeing the Braves spend a little on some pitching or a second baseman, though.

Not happy with Dan Uggla? *ducks*

Did Beachy get a raw deal this year, or what...great ERA, a .BAA of .171 for crying out loud, but no run support, and who knows when he'll be able to pitch again.


I'm sure Beachy lost all faith in god. Guys don't come back from those and just throw the same way.

As to Uggla, outside of the 30+ game hit streak, he has sucked more than 9 guys blowing 10 guys.
 
2012-07-25 03:37:37 PM  
2012 is a throwaway, so 2013 is the last chance to win a title with these guys. like previous commenters have said - the stars are all another year older
 
2012-07-25 03:40:36 PM  

TheJoe03: idesofmarch: If the Phillies win a world series in 2013, the Yankee haters who harp about their payroll will give the Phillies the same treatment, right?

As a noted hater of Philadelphia sports teams, the answer is yes. BTW, fark the Yankees.


I guarantee you would be an exception. Philly fans are notoriously awful sports fans, so payroll whining will be fraught with hypocrisy.

BTW, fark whoever you root for :-P
 
2012-07-25 03:40:53 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: As I recall, you only need 9 players on a team to play baseball.

So, what's your point, subby?


Not subby, but your point seems to be that you know nothing about major league baseball, and are totally cool with displaying your ignorance like a macaque his disfigured arse.

I'm sure you were being facetious, but come the Hell on-- MLB payrolls are based on the 40-man roster (I think; maybe the 25, but I don't think so), and MLB's luxury tax threshold for next year is set at $178millions. That means 31 (or possibly 16) players have to have a collective AAV of $45mm in order to avoid heavy CBT penalties for the Phillies, not including injury call-ups and spot-fillers. They still could go over this year, so next year would be a second offense; many of their high-salary players are locked up for several years, so 2014 could still be a problem. Tying up almost 75% of CBT payroll in 9 players is foolish.

I'll look for the Phillies to be dealing good players in the next week.
 
2012-07-25 03:44:33 PM  

havocmike: 2012 is a throwaway, so 2013 is the last chance to win a title with these guys. like previous commenters have said - the stars are all another year older


No way. Lee is no Jamie Moyer. Hamels has been good but never brilliant. Halladay is great.

If they stay healthy they have a core that is strong but erratic.

They have overspent on overpriced goods.

Not like the Braves have made any moves to win a championship though.
 
2012-07-25 03:45:23 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: As I recall, you only need 9 players on a team to play baseball.

So, what's your point, subby?


I'll assume that your are employing sarcasm, but the answer is that you need nine players on the field at the same time. Four of those nine are pitchers, so unless Hamels learns to play third they'll need a few more bodies than their $133 million provides.
 
2012-07-25 04:12:18 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: As I recall, you only need 9 players on a team to play baseball.

So, what's your point, subby?



I think I found Dusty Baker's Fark tag. You only really need one pitcher for the entire season, after all.



/ 5/10 on the troll, btw
 
2012-07-25 04:14:10 PM  
The 2015 World Series Champion Toronto Blue Jays would like to thank Roy Halladay and wish him luck in the 2013 playoffs.
 
2012-07-25 04:15:10 PM  

xpisblack: I'll look for the Phillies to be dealing good players in the next week.


Word is the Yankees are looking for a third baseman...
 
2012-07-25 04:15:21 PM  
And this is why I can't take Baseball seriously until they implement a salary cap.
 
2012-07-25 04:17:42 PM  

idesofmarch: Word is the Yankees are looking for a third baseman...


We have this Polanco. It's kind of old and broken, but not much moreso than Ichiro.
 
2012-07-25 04:17:44 PM  

srhp29: Killer Cars: Hobo Jr.: Wouldn't mind seeing the Braves spend a little on some pitching or a second baseman, though.

Not happy with Dan Uggla? *ducks*

Did Beachy get a raw deal this year, or what...great ERA, a .BAA of .171 for crying out loud, but no run support, and who knows when he'll be able to pitch again.

I'm always told by Braves Superfans (I am a big fan but not on the level of those guys) that because Uggla knocks in runs, his 3rd grader in the bigs batting average is okay. Because you know...a guy who hits less homers and hits 50-70 points higher wouldn't score more runs and knock in as many runs as Uggla...Because Homeruns are all that matter to some.


basically he walks a lot, and obp is a better indicator of success than batting average (watch moneyball for the longer brad pitt-ier explanation). that said last year he was only slightly above average for a hitter at 2nd, and this year he is slightly below average by the same amount.

9m last year and 13m this year is not what you want to be paying an average 2nd basemen (according to espn avg salary of a 2nd basemen is 3.5m) , which makes him particularly untradeable.

cdn1.hark.com
 
2012-07-25 04:17:48 PM  
Hobo Jr.: No way. Lee is no Jamie Moyer. Hamels has been good but never brilliant. Halladay is great.

Hamels was brilliant as recently as last year. He just happened to be on a team with two guys who were more brilliant.
 
2012-07-25 04:19:01 PM  

farbekrieg: 9m last year and 13m this year is not what you want to be paying an average 2nd basemen (according to espn avg salary of a 2nd basemen is 3.5m) , which makes him particularly untradeable.


He's also a mediocre fielder at best.
 
2012-07-25 04:22:55 PM  

zippolight2002: And this is why I can't take Baseball seriously until they implement a salary cap.


Not sure if serious. Other than the Yankees a lot of teams come and go in the MLB playoffs. Long time outsiders will make the leap in the next few years. (O's, Nats, Pirates, Jays) Teams that have had a run are falling back. (Phils, Red Sox) Right now only KC and Houston are more than 8-10 years away from playoff possibilities with KC looking to challenge in 2032.
 
2012-07-25 04:29:00 PM  

idesofmarch: Word is the Yankees are looking for a third baseman...


If the Steinbrenner boys have half a brain between them, they'll pick up Youkilis just to rile up Red Sox fans. I bet the White Sox would deal him for a reasonable price.

Meanwhile, I said good players-- Polanco is a rusted-out and crappy 2B forced into an awkward new position, like a 75-year-old whilom gymnast-at-16 being forced back into a contortionist's sex-poses by a new partner. The Yankees aren't good enough to make that kind of flexibility work, not at the moment. Not to replace Rodriguez, anyway.
 
2012-07-25 04:31:12 PM  

zippolight2002: And this is why I can't take Baseball seriously until they implement a salary cap.


The point is that the Phillies kinda suck.

The NBA has a salary cap and like 14 franchises have won ever.
 
2012-07-25 04:38:06 PM  

Dafatone: The NBA has a salary cap and like 14 franchises have won ever.


You still can't "buy" a title though.
 
2012-07-25 04:47:40 PM  
As a Phils follower and fan (I love the team, I hate most of our band hopping fans), Im not in love with the deal. After Hamel's monster 2008 year he took a complete shiat on himself from all of the pressure in '09-he would pitch near-perfect baseball for 6 innings and make 1 mistake and go to pieces. A microcosm of his year was Game 3 of the 09 WS when he melted down after A-Rod 1 handed a changeup for a HR. He admitted his confidence was shiat and most people who follow the team questioned his West-Coast laid back attitude and basically if he had any balls to be a main cog on a top team. He has pitched really well with the cushion of being the #2 then #3 behind Halladay and Lee-much less of a pressure strain. What wll happen with 144mil hanging on his head and a 1-3 4.5ERA next April in Philly? I shudder to think that he could easily revert to his 2009 pussy-ness.

The Phils could have traded him for some bigtime value and still could have signed him for this amount in the offseason--he wasnt gonna get CC Sabathia cash.

But this does give the Phils a ton of respect for the fans-people know the Phils arent being cheap, which has been their MO for a lot of the last 30years.

Next step now is to see who wants Victorino, Pence,Rollins and even Lee. It would take a monstrous effort to even make 87 wins this year--but some of this money needs to be dumped, even if we partly pay for Lee to go.
 
2012-07-25 04:48:43 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: As I recall, you only need 9 players on a team to play baseball.

So, what's your point, subby?


I hope you enjoy that 1-man pitching rotation and that 0-man bullpen.

The phillies are still well below the Yankees but they are catching up, and they don't have the buttloads of money to do it. However, don't harp on them about payroll because they've had one lousy year. It's not like they won the world series recently or anything.
 
2012-07-25 04:57:01 PM  

xpisblack: If the Steinbrenner boys have half a brain between them, they'll pick up Youkilis just to rile up Red Sox fans. I bet the White Sox would deal him for a reasonable price.


No, fark that - Youkilis is butt-ugly WITH his beard, you don't want to see him if the Yankees make him shave it off.
 
2012-07-25 05:12:48 PM  

Dafatone: zippolight2002: And this is why I can't take Baseball seriously until they implement a salary cap.

The point is that the Phillies kinda suck.

The NBA has a salary cap and like 14 franchises have won ever.


Not to pick nits-- I agree with your general premise that a) the Phillies suck (thrice-damned racist sons of motherless goat-suckers), and b) the NBA-style salary cap doesn't help-- but 17 NBA franchises have won championships. The Baltimore Bullets are defunct, the Syracuse nationals won one before becoming the Philadelphia 76ers, and the Rochester Royals are now the Sacramento Kings and a few teams have changed cities but conserved their names (St. Louis/Atlanta Hawks, Golden State/Philadelphia Warriors, Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers). Your point remains, but the count is slightly off.

To bolster your point: since implementing the salary cap in 1984/5, eight teams have won NBA championships. That's not great (MLB WS and NFL SB totals leave the NBA in the dust). Baseball is arguably the most competitive sport in America despite MLB's rampant team-salary disparities.
 
2012-07-25 05:28:24 PM  

idesofmarch: No, fark that - Youkilis is butt-ugly WITH his beard, you don't want to see him if the Yankees make him shave it off.


Since when have the Yankees cared about fielding back-of-arse ugly players? Swisher looks like he's gnawing infant spines and grinning through half-masticated unicorn testicles every damn day, and fans still seem to love him.
 
2012-07-25 05:29:25 PM  

TheJoe03: Dafatone: The NBA has a salary cap and like 14 franchises have won ever.

You still can't "buy" a title though.


Sure you can. It's a soft cap. If you want to spend a shiat ton in luxury tax costs, you can field a very expensive team.

And it's not easy to "buy" a title in baseball, either. For all the Yankees' hilarious spending, most of their core, especially in the 1996-2000 title run, was home grown. Then you have guys like A-Rod, who were acquired by trading a homegrown player (Soriano). They do bring in piles of free agents, but it's doing so on top of smart development that has made them so good.
 
2012-07-25 05:33:02 PM  

xpisblack: Dafatone: zippolight2002: And this is why I can't take Baseball seriously until they implement a salary cap.

The point is that the Phillies kinda suck.

The NBA has a salary cap and like 14 franchises have won ever.

Not to pick nits-- I agree with your general premise that a) the Phillies suck (thrice-damned racist sons of motherless goat-suckers), and b) the NBA-style salary cap doesn't help-- but 17 NBA franchises have won championships. The Baltimore Bullets are defunct, the Syracuse nationals won one before becoming the Philadelphia 76ers, and the Rochester Royals are now the Sacramento Kings and a few teams have changed cities but conserved their names (St. Louis/Atlanta Hawks, Golden State/Philadelphia Warriors, Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers). Your point remains, but the count is slightly off.

To bolster your point: since implementing the salary cap in 1984/5, eight teams have won NBA championships. That's not great (MLB WS and NFL SB totals leave the NBA in the dust). Baseball is arguably the most competitive sport in America despite MLB's rampant team-salary disparities.


The NFL is pretty competitive-looking, but a lot of that is imposed parity via scheduling. Having to play tougher teams if you did well for 2 or 3 games a year out of a 16 game season is very significant. Certainly, things can be done to help competitive balance in MLB, and a salary cap might be one of those things. But people who just wail "rich teams buy championships!" are dumb. Your team's owner is quite possibly richer than the Yankees' ownership.

The first step is a salary floor.
 
2012-07-25 05:38:20 PM  

Dafatone: Then you have guys like A-Rod, who were acquired by trading a homegrown player (Soriano)


Soriano was almost as "homegrown" by the Yankees as was Matsui. AS played for two years in Japan before signing with the Yankees as a free agent-- they didn't draft him, they didn't train him, they didn't get him first, nothing. They were his first MLB team, but they signed him as a free agent.

Homegrown players are drafted and trained by a team, not signed away from other leagues.
 
2012-07-25 05:39:07 PM  

Dafatone: Sure you can. It's a soft cap. If you want to spend a shiat ton in luxury tax costs, you can field a very expensive team.


True, but owners might move away from that soon, the penalties will be incredibly harsh next year. I think a team like the Nets are screwed but their crazy Russian owner doesn't care yet.

As for baseball, you're right, way more players to account for but a team like NY isn't going to suck as long as they pay money while other teams will always suck because they have cheap owners.
 
2012-07-25 05:39:19 PM  
xpisblack: That's not great (MLB WS and NFL SB totals leave the NBA in the dust). Baseball is arguably the most competitive sport in America despite MLB's rampant team-salary disparities.

The NFL's rotating schedule and one-and-done playoff format has as much, if not more, to do with the rotation of SB champions as the salary cap does. The salary cap era has only produced three or four teams (Saints, Bucs, Broncos, and....?) that had never previously won a title. There are still a finite amount of competent GM/coach/QB combos that line up at any given time. The rate at which new teams win the Super Bowl is really not THAT much different than the pre-salary cap, Super Bowl era.
 
2012-07-25 05:48:25 PM  

Dafatone: The first step is a salary floor.


Agreed-- I'm looking at you, Pirates. But just counting the number of teams that have won in the disparate pro leagues in America, the NBA is the least competitive. I don't much care why the leagues vary (scheduling vs payroll vs salary-cap, etc), but I do note that MLB is the closest to truly competitive. But given that more MLB teams have won WS titles since 2000 than have won NBA Finals since 1985, MLB can justly be considered the more competitive league. Competitive balance in MLB right now is actually doing fine. It looks ugly, given the spending disparities, but the playoff results show as much variety as any American pro league, and more than some.
 
2012-07-25 06:00:43 PM  

Daniels: The salary cap era has only produced three or four teams (Saints, Bucs, Broncos, and....?) that had never previously won a title.


Not a causal connection, but the Patriots never won before the salary cap era, and look what happened to them. Eventually.j

My point remains that the number of championship teams in other American pro leagues makes the NBA look unfair. NFL, MLB, even NHL teams win at a more varied clip than NBA teams. And each other league can point to its own setup to explain the relative parity, but the NBA is left with no justification save that MLB has no salary cap (and is therefore more fair), the NFL has schedule disparity (and is therefore more fair), and NHL has... Canadian teams and lower overall salaries (and is therefore more fair). Or something.

The fact remains that the NBA is the least competitively balanced of the four major American pro leagues.

That MLB teams are willing to take CBT-threshold hits isn't necessarily proof of the unfairness of the league. It could well be evidence of the stupidity of some teams, but the league still sees a more varied WS matchup than just about any other league's championship round.
 
2012-07-25 06:21:00 PM  
I think the reason for the NBA's lack of competitive balance is because of the small rosters compared to the other leagues. Unless you draft that HOF superstar (Lakers with Kobe, Mavs with Dirk, Heat with Wade, Spurs with Duncan, Bulls with Jordan, Rockets with Hakeem) you have no chance. The 00s Pistons are the only exception, but yeah, one guy means a whole lot in hoops.
 
Displayed 50 of 62 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report