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(Bleacher Report)   The Astros haven't completely blown up their roster, but you wouldn't know any better even if they did, because after losing 17 of their last 18 games you probably haven't checked to see who is on their roster in a while   (bleacherreport.com) divider line 36
    More: Misc, Jed Lowrie, Astros, Major League Baseball, Astros Foolish, Brett Myers, Baseball America, Buster Olney, Ken Rosenthal  
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477 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Jul 2012 at 3:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-25 01:01:13 PM
Copying and pasting my post from the Marlins thread:

Houston's going with the "nuke everything, bottom the fark out, and start over with crazy high draft picks" plan. Which is really what they should be doing. No sense in keeping your bad team together, or making a bunch of moves to maybe improve the team to mediocre.
 
2012-07-25 01:50:46 PM
Goddamndogassastros.
 
2012-07-25 03:08:03 PM
Altuve and Lowrie are the only two guys on that roster worth a shiat. At least the farm system is getting better.

2015 will be the Stros year.
 
2012-07-25 03:20:17 PM

FreakinB: Copying and pasting my post from the Marlins thread:

Houston's going with the "nuke everything, bottom the fark out, and start over with crazy high draft picks" plan. Which is really what they should be doing. No sense in keeping your bad team together, or making a bunch of moves to maybe improve the team to mediocre.


True, but it also sucks to watch or cheer for.

Rebuilding is necessary sometimes but you don't have to actively pursue sucking.

Hell, the Braves are younger and more talented than they were 5 years ago but they never feel that far while reworking their roster.
 
2012-07-25 03:42:37 PM
Assuming that the unbalanced schedule remains in effect, I look forward to the Astros providing a nutritous source of wins for the AL West next season.
 
2012-07-25 03:49:57 PM
...And you can KEEP Coco Cordero!

/Go Reds!
 
2012-07-25 04:04:12 PM
the baseball draft process is still mostly a bunch of voodoo and soothesayers peering into a cauldren at this point, if you are relying on high baseball draft picks to save your franchise you might as well pull out the disco demolition night as well.
 
2012-07-25 04:09:15 PM

farbekrieg: the baseball draft process is still mostly a bunch of voodoo and soothesayers peering into a cauldren at this point, if you are relying on high baseball draft picks to save your franchise you might as well pull out the disco demolition night as well.


What other choice do they have?
 
2012-07-25 04:10:36 PM
Wow. Only one guy makes over 2 million. Francisco Cordero at 4.5mil, who they just traded for. What was the point of acquiring him? Only 3 guys make over 750k.
 
2012-07-25 04:12:43 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Goddamndogassastros.


This. :(
 
2012-07-25 04:17:56 PM

farbekrieg: the baseball draft process is still mostly a bunch of voodoo and soothesayers peering into a cauldren at this point, if you are relying on high baseball draft picks to save your franchise you might as well pull out the disco demolition night as well.


So you're saying there's a chance
 
2012-07-25 04:18:53 PM

professorkowalski: Altuve and Lowrie are the only two guys on that roster worth a shiat. At least the farm system is getting better.

2015 will be the Stros year.


2015...might wanna look a little further down the road

You guys have never quite been the same since getting whomped in '05

/White Sox WWWYKI
 
2012-07-25 04:22:29 PM
As a Cardinal fan, I can tell you Astros fans that Luhnow is the guy that could actually pull this off. The guy knows wtf he's doing, and the Cardinals are worse off without him.
 
2012-07-25 04:24:51 PM

farbekrieg: the baseball draft process is still mostly a bunch of voodoo and soothesayers peering into a cauldren at this point, if you are relying on high baseball draft picks to save your franchise you might as well pull out the disco demolition night as well.


That's true to an extent, but it wasn't just luck that helped Luhnow turn the Cardinals' farm system (which had been almost completely depleted by Jocketty) into one of the better ones in MLB. He doesn't deserve all the credit for that, but no one man ever does.
 
2012-07-25 05:04:08 PM
As a Pirate fan, I can tell you there is light at the end of the tunnel, however, that tunnel can be a long one.
Hopefully, it won't take you guys 19 years but it's a safe bet that it won't happen by 2015.

All I can say is good luck and I'm feeling your pain.
 
2012-07-25 05:37:29 PM

upndn: As a Pirate fan, I can tell you there is light at the end of the tunnel, however, that tunnel can be a long one.
Hopefully, it won't take you guys 19 years but it's a safe bet that it won't happen by 2015.

All I can say is good luck and I'm feeling your pain.


Given the outcome of the last Bucco's series against the Cubs, the Astros might have a reason to celebrate this weekend.
 
2012-07-25 05:42:34 PM

zerkalo
So you're saying there's a chance



which i guess is saying a lot for the dis-astros.

Shrugging Atlas: That's true to an extent, but it wasn't just luck that helped Luhnow turn the Cardinals' farm system (which had been almost completely depleted by Jocketty) into one of the better ones in MLB. He doesn't deserve all the credit for that, but no one man ever does.


but that isnt really done by having high picks rather paying for development and scouting. the success rates of high round picks actually making the majors is still fairly low. If you are lucky there is a sure fire prospect that will get to the bigs (usually out of the college ranks), but beyond that, who knows.
 
2012-07-25 05:52:01 PM

Decillion: farbekrieg: the baseball draft process is still mostly a bunch of voodoo and soothesayers peering into a cauldren at this point, if you are relying on high baseball draft picks to save your franchise you might as well pull out the disco demolition night as well.

What other choice do they have?


worked for Washington?...kind of
 
2012-07-25 05:58:29 PM

professorkowalski: Altuve and Lowrie are the only two guys on that roster worth a shiat. At least the farm system is getting better.

2015 will be the Stros year.


You forgot Shafer. So 3 guys. Enough for an entire outfield or nearly enough for an infield. We're on our way, baby!
 
2012-07-25 06:03:05 PM

Analgesic: professorkowalski: Altuve and Lowrie are the only two guys on that roster worth a shiat. At least the farm system is getting better.

2015 will be the Stros year.

You forgot Shafer. So 3 guys. Enough for an entire outfield or nearly enough for an infield. We're on our way, baby!


Singleton, the 1B in AA, is a beast. Two years out from him being with the team though. Or maybe next year. Lots of young pitching depth in the minors and Springer, the first round pick from '11, as well.
 
2012-07-25 07:52:07 PM
Haven't watched baseball in a while but I assume Biggio and Bagwell still play there.
 
2012-07-25 08:31:40 PM

professorkowalski: Altuve and Lowrie are the only two guys on that roster worth a shiat. At least the farm system is getting better.

2015 will be the Stros year.


To do what? They're not going to have any more chance in the AL West than they will in the NL Central. They will get more Frequent Flyer miles, though.
 
2012-07-25 08:39:03 PM

farbekrieg: but that isnt really done by having high picks rather paying for development and scouting. the success rates of high round picks actually making the majors is still fairly low. If you are lucky there is a sure fire prospect that will get to the bigs (usually out of the college ranks), but beyond that, who knows.


Valid point, and one I was trying (not well) to make. Luhnow is extremely talented from an organizational perspective at setting up and maintaining a development and scouting network. The one in place in St. Louis is essentially his creation, and was so valued by ownership they fired Jocketty because he wasn't willing to get on board with it.

Of coure you're right about the draft picks--I'd say MLB is on par with the NHL in terms of the overall success rate and length of time it takes for a pick to develop into a pro-player. But that said, the Astros are not going to become successful without using the draft, heavily at that.

I understand any fan of the Astros that are out of patience...it's been a horrible decline and today did nothing to help the now or near/mid term either for that matter. But looking at it neutrally as a Cardinal fan that liked a ton of the Astros players over time I would say this: With Luhnow in charge I'm glad they are moving to the AL next year.
 
2012-07-25 08:42:51 PM
Just realized TFA is two weeks old. Wandy was traded yesterday for a few bag o' bats players. Last guy from 2005 team.

Watching the Stros right now but only because they're on the Reds telecast. Hoping the Reds so-so batting doesn't make the Stros look good tonight. Coco's collapse last night was hilarious.
 
2012-07-25 09:03:38 PM
Yes, it is an old article, but the premiss is still the same. The Astros have traded everyone on the roster worth trading except Jed Lawrie. They are in full rebuild mode and yet they are holding onto an injury plagued player who does them no good in the long run when another team could use him for the short term. Even if they only get a few long shot prospects in return he would be better served on the trade block than on the roster because keeping him only hurts them in the long run.
 
2012-07-25 09:44:54 PM
I'll give you Dan Uggla for Jose Altuve.

/tried this in my keeper fantasy league
//rejected
 
2012-07-25 10:00:07 PM

frtmn7: I'll give you Dan Uggla for Jose Altuve.

/tried this in my keeper fantasy league
//rejected


I have incredible hitting, horrible pitching, in my auction keeper league, and had both Cano and Altuve on my team. Altuve has more value in my league than most since he'd be a cheap* keeper, but he was sort of expendable for me with Cano already at 2B. So I traded him for Hammel and Cahill. A few hours after the trade went through, Hammel got hurt. Damn it all.

*On the books for $1 this year. I did well there.
 
2012-07-25 10:17:49 PM

devilskware: Wow. Only one guy makes over 2 million. Francisco Cordero at 4.5mil, who they just traded for. What was the point of acquiring him? Only 3 guys make over 750k.


It evened up the amount of money traded $5M to Houston and $7M to Toronto.
 
2012-07-25 11:11:42 PM
Coco choked again. Stubbs is NOT that good of a hitter, but he's taken Cordero deep twice in two nights. Poor Stros fans. You're stuck with this guy thru September.
 
2012-07-26 12:04:44 AM
Altuve's rise from High A to MLB All Star in one calendar year was pretty farking remarkable if you ask me.

Watching him in AA last season you could tell he was prepared to hit against almost anyone they threw at him.
 
2012-07-26 02:00:55 AM

CognaciousThunk: Coco choked again. Stubbs is NOT that good of a hitter, but he's taken Cordero deep twice in two nights. Poor Stros fans. You're stuck with this guy thru September.


As a Reds fan, I have derived great pleasure watching Cordero collapse these past two nights. Meanwhile we get to trot out The Cuban Missile and watch him fireball in the strikes.

I like this Reds team a lot, I really do. There a just a few spots I'd like see them add some depth before the trade deadline, and then I think they'll be ready for what could be a post season run.
 
2012-07-26 02:55:34 AM
They're going to have fun playing the Angels and Rangers 16 times a year (or whatever).

You thought the NL Central was tough? LOL.

/go cards
 
2012-07-26 05:29:24 AM
Wake me in 2015...
 
2012-07-26 09:43:20 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Wake me in 2015...


If you're lucky. I'm thinking it'll be more like 2018 at the soonest, unless the Astros farm system is a whole lot better than I remember it being. Ed Wade managed to gut any talent that was there over his tenure, and the very few guys who somehow ran the gauntlet to get to the show have all now been traded as well.

IIRC, Luhnow came to St. Louis around 2003 or so. He didn't really get a good draft until 2005, and most of those guys have only been on the big club for the last year or two. So it's safe to figure six years as a timeline for any improvement.
 
2012-07-26 05:59:59 PM

dave2198: They're going to have fun playing the Angels and Rangers 16 times a year (or whatever).

You thought the NL Central was tough? LOL.

/go cards


I think the NL Central will look a lot stronger without Houston in it. And that's not a knock against them, because they have been very good at times. It's just with 6 teams, you always had a huge disparity from the top of the division to the bottom in any given year. There's always one really good team, two that are pretty good and make a run at the wildcard, two that are below average, and then there's always one that's so bad that they become an embarrassment to the entire league. And with one fewer team, I don't the the division will bottom out quite as hard as it usually does. Especially with Pittsburgh on the up and up.
 
2012-07-26 10:50:55 PM

balfourk: Yes, it is an old article, but the premiss is still the same. The Astros have traded everyone on the roster worth trading except Jed Lawrie. They are in full rebuild mode and yet they are holding onto an injury plagued player who does them no good in the long run when another team could use him for the short term. Even if they only get a few long shot prospects in return he would be better served on the trade block than on the roster because keeping him only hurts them in the long run.


Teams typically don't trade for players who are on the DL. Just saying. No GM worth his salt would take a flyer on him without knowing if he's going to be effective upon his return.
 
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