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(BGR)   Samsung: Apple wouldn't have sold a single iPhone without stealing our tech   (bgr.com) divider line 27
    More: Interesting, Apple Inc., Samsung, iPhone, Jonathan Ive  
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3825 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Jul 2012 at 1:14 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-07-25 01:21:36 PM
3 votes:
The Kinks had great songs and musical genius. They were really good. Go on a YouTube crawl if you don't believe me. You could argue that many of their songs are as good as or even better than most of the songs offered by the Beatles.

But the Kinks didn't have anyone who could write a hook and sell a record like the Beatles had. Today, the Beatles are still the benchmark, the one everyone says is "the Next" or "Bigger Than". Even though modern artists are selling more records to today's audience than the Beatles sold to their 1964 market pretty much daily, the Beatles are still the ones to beat. They're the ones hipper-than-thou people claim sucked and stole all their ideas, whereas no one ever even thinks of badmouthing the Dave Clark Five. Paul McCartney can't sneeze without there being a Fark thread about it; I don't think I've ever seen a Kinks thread.

Because it doesn't matter how good your idea is, how good your tech is, if you can't put it in a box that people will get stars in their eyes for, you can't sell it. You just won't. Apple figured out how to sell those phones. Inferior tech or superior, inferior interface or superior, Apple managed to get that same kind of hook, that same kind of marketing mojo that Lennon and McCartney had.

Samsung was making the best phones they knew how to make, Apple was just better at figuring out what would sell.
2012-07-25 03:19:07 PM
2 votes:

theurge14: Samsung phones immediately before the original iPhone launch:

[i.imgur.com image 300x300]
[i.imgur.com image 155x300]
[i.imgur.com image 187x350]
[i.imgur.com image 163x300]
[i.imgur.com image 327x383]
[i.imgur.com image 257x300]
[i.imgur.com image 179x300]
[i.imgur.com image 193x299]
[i.imgur.com image 235x299]
[i.imgur.com image 193x300]
[i.imgur.com image 187x299]
[i.imgur.com image 183x298]

Samsung phones since the iPhone:

[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]


You conveniently left this one off your "before" list:

www.yourmobilephone.co.uk
2012-07-25 01:46:21 PM
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Apple wouldn't even exist any more if they didn't steal other people's tech. Starting with Xerox.


Myth:
Apple CEO Steve Jobs saw Xerox PARC product such as the GUI, either on a tour or at a trade show, then stole the PARC GUI implementation without permission, to create the Apple Lisa and the original Mac OS / Macintosh GUI.

Fact:
Apple obtained permission ahead of the Xerox PARC visit. In addition, Apple provided compensation in exchange for the various Xerox PARC ideas such as the GUI.

The compensation for the Xerox PARC technology sharing deal with Apple was in form of $1 million dollars pre-IPO Apple stock / investment (if Apple does well, Xerox will benefit from Apple's success).

The PARC demo took place in 1979. Xerox received its compensation in exchange for showing some prototypes that Xerox didn't know what to do with.

"November: Steve Jobs and software engineer Bill Atkinson visit the Xerox PARC lab in Palo Alto, California. More Apple employees will visit a month later."

"Jobs and several Apple employees including Jef Raskin visited Xerox PARC in December 1979 to see the Xerox Alto. Xerox granted Apple engineers three days of access to the PARC facilities in return for the option to buy 100,000 shares of Apple at the pre-IPO price of $10 a share."
2012-07-25 11:33:36 AM
2 votes:
Apple would have sold millions if all an iPhone was was a Zack Morris brick phone with the Apple logo drawn on in Steve Jobs' feces
2012-07-25 09:21:36 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: The release of the WinRT Surface is three months away, and the Surface Pro is about six away. A lot can change between now and then, and to be honest, I wouldn't trust anything anyone says at this point. Hell, no one knew that tablet existed up until the moment it was announced... not any clue at all. How likely is it they have access to pricing info on a Microsoft product that's three months away from launch (minimum) that was one of the company's best-kept secrets?


MS said they'd only sell the Surface in MS stores, which there are none of in Sweden.
2012-07-25 03:35:20 PM
1 votes:

Dear Jerk: Marcus Aurelius
Apple wouldn't even exist any more if they didn't steal other people's tech. Starting with Xerox.

Ah,the Xerox myth. Xerox, at the time, was contractually obligated to show Apple all its projects. They tried to hide the mouse from Apple, but Apple sniffed it out and demanded to see it. After that, Apple developed a mouse that was far cheaper and more functional the the Xerox, which couldn't even drag diagonally.


I'mma gona neet a big, fat steaming cite for that because that's not at all the story I heard from folks who were at PARC at the time
2012-07-25 03:28:28 PM
1 votes:
theflatline:
Really? There were windows phones as early as 2003.

And those early windows phones did everything the first iPhones did plus more (Exchange & VPN are the biggies).



theurge14: Samsung phones immediately before the original iPhone launch:
...
Samsung phones since the iPhone:

...


I notice a few phones missing there. The Rugby? Charge? There are plenty others from Samsung that are flip or have keyboards.

Samsung isn't the only one that is going with the large square screen. Everybody is going that way because that's what the consumer wants. We didn't have the selection of large screen phones before because of battery life. I have a phone sitting on my desk from '06 (xv6700) that is a large screen for its time. The battery was horrible in it. Since that phone came out in '06 and the iPhone came out in '07, does that mean Apple was copying the design from it? All they did was take away physical buttons and made them virtual. The physical shape was similar.

If Apple didn't come out with the iPhone, the only difference would be that Android wouldn't be as big and the smart phone market would be controlled by RIM and Microsoft. We would still have the slim, large screen phones.


My problem with all of this is the patent system and the trolls the abuse the system.
2012-07-25 03:27:26 PM
1 votes:

theurge14: The Singing Bush: theurge14: Samsung phones immediately before the original iPhone launch:

[i.imgur.com image 300x300]
[i.imgur.com image 155x300]
[i.imgur.com image 187x350]
[i.imgur.com image 163x300]
[i.imgur.com image 327x383]
[i.imgur.com image 257x300]
[i.imgur.com image 179x300]
[i.imgur.com image 193x299]
[i.imgur.com image 235x299]
[i.imgur.com image 193x300]
[i.imgur.com image 187x299]
[i.imgur.com image 183x298]

Samsung phones since the iPhone:

[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]
[i.imgur.com image 170x170]

You conveniently left this one off your "before" list:

[www.yourmobilephone.co.uk image 352x317]

Didn't conveniently leave it out.

"The first iPhone was unveiled by Steve Jobs, then CEO of Apple, on January 9, 2007,[1] and released on June 29, 2007"

"Using Vodafone as its network provider, the phone was first introduced at the 3GSM World Congress that was held in February 2007. Sales to the European market started November 2007."


So you're saying Samsung built a new product in a month?
2012-07-25 02:56:30 PM
1 votes:

theurge14: Marine1: theurge14: Marine1: zedster: how can you have a whole thread about Apple stealing and no mention of taking from the BSD community and not giving a damn thing back?

At least Windows is it's own OS, OS X is just a bunch of proprietary packages over BSD

This.

It's a large part of why I respect the FOSS community and Microsoft a lot more than Apple. If Apple had to actually develop and maintain an OS from scratch (like NT), believe you me, OS X upgrades would not be $20.

Are you joking? I'm serious, are you?

I'm not joking.

So you believe Microsoft built NT from scratch? So IBM and OS/2 mean nothing to you?

Let's look at what all gets upgraded when Microsoft releases a new desktop client version of Windows (forget Server):

I'm not referring to this, Windows and Mac OS X are released on completely different upgrade paths.

Apple doesn't have to invest nearly as much into their platform as most of it was developed out of house. Linux is supported by donations of time and money.

It appears you don't know about OS X as much as you think you do.


Oh, I know about OS/2. My dad's friend works at IBM and is still pretty bitter about the whole thing... almost 20 years later. However, Microsoft still did the lion's share of development on the kernel that became Windows NT instead of OS/2's upgrade. If they hadn't, it's probable that they wouldn't have been able to switch the APIs from OS/2 to Windows.

If they're on separate upgrade paths, then the whining about Windows' price and comparisons to the price of OS X upgrades need to stop as well. Maybe we're arguing the same point from different sides here.

I know plenty about OS X's development and how Apple came across it... it's a working operating system that was a revelation compared to the stream of MacOS products that came before it. But let's please stop pretending that Apple's engineering efforts in regards to OS X are the same that Microsoft's are in regards to Windows. They're not.
2012-07-25 02:49:57 PM
1 votes:

zedster: Vaneshi: CUPS, Common Unix Print System. aka OS X's print spool.
WebKit (formerly KHTML) aka Safari's rendering engine.
XQuartz, forms X11.app and is based off of the xorg code tree with commits heading upstream.

Apple bought CUPS

Webkit is from KDE

XQuartz no longer supports X11 apps


CUPS is part of every Linux distro, it's FOSS with Apple providing large commits.

WebKit actually works and works well, unlike KHTML which as anyone (including me) who used those versions of Konqurer will tell you was a bit of a dogs dinner.

The X11 layer no longer runs X11 applications... I don't believe you and will thus go and fact check. Hmm...

"The XQuartz project is an open-source effort to develop a version of the X.Org X Window System that runs on OS X. Together with supporting libraries and applications, it forms the X11.app that Apple has shipped with OS X since version 10.5." Current version support 10.8 (i.e. the one released today).

Nope still runs X11 applications. You're thinking of QuartzExtreme which is something quite different.
2012-07-25 02:47:09 PM
1 votes:

theurge14: So you believe Microsoft built NT from scratch?


Apparently Hiring Dave Cutler from DEC to lead their next gen OS project and then having NT look suspiciously like VMS in so many ways doesn't count.
2012-07-25 02:38:49 PM
1 votes:

zedster: how can you have a whole thread about Apple stealing and no mention of taking from the BSD community and not giving a damn thing back?


You mean aside from Apple releasing the code for Darwin, their fork of BSD? Or Zeroconfig? Or Bonjour? Or CUPS? Or Webkit? Or Grand Central Dispatch? Or all those other open source projects they do not run, but contribute code to?

Aside from those?
2012-07-25 02:33:07 PM
1 votes:

Vaneshi: CUPS, Common Unix Print System. aka OS X's print spool.
WebKit (formerly KHTML) aka Safari's rendering engine.
XQuartz, forms X11.app and is based off of the xorg code tree with commits heading upstream.


Apple bought CUPS

Webkit is from KDE

XQuartz no longer supports X11 apps
2012-07-25 02:15:44 PM
1 votes:
Samsung phones immediately before the original iPhone launch:

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com

Samsung phones since the iPhone:

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
2012-07-25 02:11:21 PM
1 votes:

zedster: how can you have a whole thread about Apple stealing and no mention of taking from the BSD community and not giving a damn thing back?


Not giving anything back... now I'll grant you points for at least trying something new and moving beyond the whole Xerox PARC thing however I must also take substantial points away.

CUPS, Common Unix Print System. aka OS X's print spool.
WebKit (formerly KHTML) aka Safari's rendering engine.
XQuartz, forms X11.app and is based off of the xorg code tree with commits heading upstream.

That's just off the top of my head and at least one (xorg) is part of any modern *NIX system... all have substantial commits from developers paid for by Apple.

Yeah... your X11 layer has Apple in it enjoy.
2012-07-25 02:07:56 PM
1 votes:

zedster: how can you have a whole thread about Apple stealing and no mention of taking from the BSD community and not giving a damn thing back?

At least Windows is it's own OS, OS X is just a bunch of proprietary packages over BSD


This.

It's a large part of why I respect the FOSS community and Microsoft a lot more than Apple. If Apple had to actually develop and maintain an OS from scratch (like NT), believe you me, OS X upgrades would not be $20. Furthermore, OS X exists because it has to (the computer Apple sells needs to run somehow), not as a means to push the envelope with customization and innovation, like Linux.

When Apple actually developed their own operating systems from scratch, we got crap. Some might think OS X is a better OS than Windows or Linux, but when you say that, realize it's not Apple that made the fundamentals.

That being said, these patent wars are ridiculous, and I hope Apple tries to pull this crap on Microsoft when the Surface is released. The reaction might be the only thing that gets them to knock off all of this damned litigation.
2012-07-25 02:06:30 PM
1 votes:

NutznGum: So, what you're saying is Apple got the whole idea from Xerox. Thanks for clearing that up.


It's pretty obvious you have no idea how the Xerox Alto worked. File management, starting programs, and printing documents for instance, were all handled from a command prompt.

Why don't you take a look at the Alto User's Handbook? (Warning - PDF file)
2012-07-25 01:58:56 PM
1 votes:
how can you have a whole thread about Apple stealing and no mention of taking from the BSD community and not giving a damn thing back?

At least Windows is it's own OS, OS X is just a bunch of proprietary packages over BSD
2012-07-25 01:55:31 PM
1 votes:
I have already stated my feelings on apple products today:) BUT.... my iphone is the worst phone i owned.. sold it and got a galaxy s2.. AWESOME... and lovin android...
2012-07-25 01:50:32 PM
1 votes:

NutznGum: Dear Jerk: Marcus Aurelius
Apple wouldn't even exist any more if they didn't steal other people's tech. Starting with Xerox.

Ah,the Xerox myth. Xerox, at the time, was contractually obligated to show Apple all its projects. They tried to hide the mouse from Apple, but Apple sniffed it out and demanded to see it. After that, Apple developed a mouse that was far cheaper and more functional the the Xerox, which couldn't even drag diagonally.

So, what you're saying is Apple got the whole idea from Xerox. Thanks for clearing that up.


The OP said "steal" not "got." Since Apple legally acquired the tech from Xerox through contractual obligations and greements, it wasn't "stealing" anything.
2012-07-25 01:49:44 PM
1 votes:

unlikely: Samsung was making the best phones they knew how to make, Apple was just better at figuring out what would sell.


My opinion as well. You can fault Apple for a lot, but you can't deny the fact that they made a product for the consumer. One that "just works". I mean that's where the freakin cliche came from. They changed the game. I say this as someone who owns not a single Apple product. In fact I'm fully Microsoft. PC, Xbox, Windows Phone. But you better believe there would NOT be a windows phone if there was no iPhone. It's quality, pure and simple.
2012-07-25 01:46:51 PM
1 votes:

Dear Jerk: Marcus Aurelius
Apple wouldn't even exist any more if they didn't steal other people's tech. Starting with Xerox.

Ah,the Xerox myth. Xerox, at the time, was contractually obligated to show Apple all its projects. They tried to hide the mouse from Apple, but Apple sniffed it out and demanded to see it. After that, Apple developed a mouse that was far cheaper and more functional the the Xerox, which couldn't even drag diagonally.


So, what you're saying is Apple got the whole idea from Xerox. Thanks for clearing that up.
2012-07-25 01:43:16 PM
1 votes:
Marcus Aurelius
Apple wouldn't even exist any more if they didn't steal other people's tech. Starting with Xerox.

Ah,the Xerox myth. Xerox, at the time, was contractually obligated to show Apple all its projects. They tried to hide the mouse from Apple, but Apple sniffed it out and demanded to see it. After that, Apple developed a mouse that was far cheaper and more functional the the Xerox, which couldn't even drag diagonally.
2012-07-25 01:17:20 PM
1 votes:

dalmo: Jake Havechek: Microsoft would not exist if Bill Gates hadn't stolen his OS from Xerox purchased his operating system from Seattle Computer Products.

FTFY.


THIS
2012-07-25 12:08:36 PM
1 votes:

Jake Havechek: Microsoft would not exist if Bill Gates hadn't stolen his OS from Xerox

purchased his operating system from Seattle Computer Products.

FTFY.
2012-07-25 11:53:44 AM
1 votes:
You must do things the Apple way and only the Apple way. I'm in Vietnam now. My Viet friend encouraged me to get a used 3GS in America for $150 and he will sell it $200 at the end of the trip. Fine. But I still can't get my damn music from the USB memory stick to the phone. It's all in the iCloud. Sure it is. So how come it isn't? It was on the phone before i came here and had to reset the phone to make local calls

I was planning to replace my Palm Pre with the i5phone in November, but I think I will follow the advice given to me to get an Android instead.
2012-07-25 11:53:20 AM
1 votes:
I really don't like Apple products, and I don't rightly give a crap who stole what from who.
 
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