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(Concord Monitor)   Progressives in the Occupy New Hampshire movement want to expel libertarian members from their ranks. Fark: by registering the organization as a corporation   (concordmonitor.com) divider line 81
    More: Ironic, Occupy New Hampshire, Free Staters, New Hampshire, academic rank, signing statements, free press, Occupy Wall Street, liberals  
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726 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jul 2012 at 11:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-25 11:15:48 AM
This might blow your mind, Subby, but the Occupy movement is not opposed to the very idea of corporations.
 
2012-07-25 11:15:52 AM
YAY. Another blatant lying headline.

Freestaters != Libertarians.

Yes, some Freestaters are Libertarians, maybe even most! (Maybe all!!)

But that doesn't mean it is a synonym for Libertarian.

BECAUSE ALL LIBERTARIANS ARE NOT FREESTATERS!!!

Jesus Fark, why has this site felt like kindergarten this week?
 
2012-07-25 11:15:54 AM
Free Stater is code for Tea Party
 
2012-07-25 11:16:00 AM
Out of morbid curiosity, where the hell are they camping in New Hampshire?
 
2012-07-25 11:16:13 AM
FTFA: "Occupy New Hampshire, the self-dubbed voice of the "99 percent," became a bit more exclusive this week.

On Monday, a small number of Occupy New Hampshire members incorporated the movement as a nonprofit
"

It's in the second sentence, FFS. Big difference between the multinational oil companies and a local nonprofit, retardmitter.
 
2012-07-25 11:17:10 AM

Esc7: YAY. Another blatant lying headline.

Freestaters != Libertarians.

Yes, some Freestaters are Libertarians, maybe even most! (Maybe all!!)

But that doesn't mean it is a synonym for Libertarian.

BECAUSE ALL LIBERTARIANS ARE NOT FREESTATERS!!!




Exactly. All libertarians are Republicans.
 
2012-07-25 11:18:03 AM
So a small group want to be dicks and exclude the rest by incorporation. And this does what with a protest movement again? How do they plan on excluding those not part of their little club from exercising their right to protest? This is stupid.
 
2012-07-25 11:19:01 AM
FTA: Membership in Occupy New Hampshire will now require signing statements of solidarity and respect, according to the corporation papers filed with the Secretary of State's office"

"The important thing is to keep pledging," he explained to his cohorts. "It doesn't matter whether they mean it or not. That's why they make little kids pledge allegiance even before they know what 'pledge' and 'allegiance' mean."
 
2012-07-25 11:19:28 AM
"Death or exile"
 
2012-07-25 11:24:14 AM
The occupy movment seems to have disintegrated into small groups of people that are just fighting either each other or the towns they reside in to camp in their protesting spots.
 
2012-07-25 11:24:55 AM

sprawl15: The important thing is to keep pledging," he explained to his cohorts.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-25 11:27:30 AM
#occupy? In 2012? How retro.
 
2012-07-25 11:28:43 AM
I think the bigger issue is whether this sub-group has the legal standing to incorporate and represent the entire state movement.
 
2012-07-25 11:32:58 AM
Since they're a corporation now, should they be barred from airing political ads?
 
2012-07-25 11:34:10 AM

Krieghund: I think the bigger issue is whether this sub-group has the legal standing to incorporate and represent the entire state movement.


Why couldn't they incorporate? Who says they represent other people that aren't members of their club?
 
2012-07-25 11:34:22 AM

rjakobi: Out of morbid curiosity, where the hell are they camping in New Hampshire?


Well, right now, since it isn't moose rut, they're basically pitching tents anywhere they can between the black bears and fisher cats. Come september, they're going to have to move up into the trees, as we all do here in the great forest, when those slope antlered camel imitators get lathered into a sexual frenzy.
 
2012-07-25 11:34:47 AM
This may just be a coincidence, but every "libertarian" I have met has been an asshole, conspiracy theorist, and/or a racist. Also... generally batshiat insane.
 
2012-07-25 11:36:12 AM

JohnnyC: This may just be a coincidence, but every "libertarian" I have met has been an asshole, conspiracy theorist, and/or a racist. Also... generally batshiat insane.


Right. A Republican.
 
2012-07-25 11:36:29 AM
So when Occupy groups let anyone join (and some of the people who join turn out to be antisemites, car-shiatters, rapists, etc.), that's bad. But when an Occupy group is more selective about who joins...that's also bad?
 
2012-07-25 11:43:07 AM

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Well, right now, since it isn't moose rut, they're basically pitching tents anywhere they can between the black bears and fisher cats. Come september, they're going to have to move up into the trees, as we all do here in the great forest, when those slope antlered camel imitators get lathered into a sexual frenzy.


And what of the forest bison and giant beaver?
 
2012-07-25 11:45:51 AM
Divided and Concord.
 
2012-07-25 11:46:07 AM
Most of the FreeStaters and Libertarians at the Progessive meetings are half confused and half trolling shiat they know little about, and they are proud of it.
 
2012-07-25 11:49:11 AM

EyeballKid: JohnnyC: This may just be a coincidence, but every "libertarian" I have met has been an asshole, conspiracy theorist, and/or a racist. Also... generally batshiat insane.

Right. A Republican.


Well... not according to them. They've seemed to be really against the idea of being a Republican, but they carry water for Republicans. Considering Ron Paul has been allowed to pretend to be a Republican for so long now, I guess it's safe to say that they're closely affiliated at the very least.
 
2012-07-25 11:49:31 AM

LordJiro: So when Occupy groups let anyone join (and some of the people who join turn out to be antisemites, car-shiatters, rapists, etc.), that's bad. But when an Occupy group is more selective about who joins...that's also bad?


Well, apparently they are rejecting people with certain ideas, not the anti-semites, rapists, car-defecators, would-be bombers, etc.
 
2012-07-25 11:51:37 AM
They should rename themselves the 9.9%.
 
2012-07-25 11:52:52 AM

Foxxinnia: #occupy? In 2012? How retro.


You should see the fashions we're just now getting up here.
I blame it on the fact that there's only 1 tv station in the entire state. (OK OK for completeness sake there are 5 other stations, 2 are UHF and 2 are repeaters, and the other is PBS)
 
2012-07-25 11:56:26 AM
Occupy NH has been in communication with many of the other city occupations and affinity groups across the country about it; response has been pretty mixed with many of the anarchists (that is to say, the farthest left of left-wingers) angry about it. However, the Free Staters in particular are right-wing ultra-capitalist separatists and are essentially opposed to everything Occupy has ever stood for. Here in Seattle we had some local militia movement and Sovereign Citizen types try to move in on the last camp. They wouldn't accede to camp rules against weapons, so they left (and as it turned out they were there just to stir shiat up anyway and were talking trash about us in other fora). Is that "driving people out"?
 
2012-07-25 11:58:47 AM

LargeCanine: LordJiro: So when Occupy groups let anyone join (and some of the people who join turn out to be antisemites, car-shiatters, rapists, etc.), that's bad. But when an Occupy group is more selective about who joins...that's also bad?

Well, apparently they are rejecting people with certain ideas, not the anti-semites, rapists, car-defecators, would-be bombers, etc.


Look how stupid you are.
 
2012-07-25 12:01:21 PM

Jackson Herring: sprawl15: The important thing is to keep pledging," he explained to his cohorts.

1.bp.blogspot.com



You know that internet joke where you read the caption on the Professor Farnsworth picture and 'hear' his voice in your head??

Seeing the WGBH picture made me hear a couple seconds of synth music.
 
2012-07-25 12:04:04 PM

JohnnyC: This may just be a coincidence, but every "libertarian" I have met has been an asshole, conspiracy theorist, and/or a racist. Also... generally batshiat insane.


Well, you've just met some assholes, conspiracy theorists, and racists, some of which happen to be libertarian. If every asshole, conspiracy theorist, and/or a racist you've ever met is libertarian, and vice versa, then you've stumbled across a statistical miracle, or you're just engaging in some good ol' fashioned hyperbole against people you disagree with.

Me? I've met assholes, conspiracy theorists, and a racists of every political orientation, including liberal Democrats and church-choir singing Republicans. Despicable people wear many guises.

Now, most (not all) libertarians I've ever met are good people. They have jobs, own homes, raise smart kids, are involved in their communities at some level or another, and have interesting hobbies. They're not gun-waving morons in tricorn hats or survivalists or separatists or any other kind of fringe group. They're just folk. Some white, some black, an Asian here and there; some religious, others atheist; businessmen, artists, musicians, accountants, doctors, programmers, and people of a variety of walks of life.

They also just happen to think that it's not a good idea to live in a nation where there's a law for every action except for blinking and digestion, that they shouldn't have to endure confiscatory taxation (95%+ of it goes to illegitimate government functions run by corrupt bureaucracies), that the state should protect their rights and property but otherwise leave them alone, that the government shouldn't pick winners and loser in the marketplace, or give billions of dollars to hostile foreign countries, or make certain "vices" into crimes because they don't conform to some uptight Christian coalition's view of Biblical morality, or sexually molest air travelers and take naked pictures of their children using alleged bomb scanners, or ruining people's lives because they disagree with the way they did their taxes, or shooting their pets in unannounced raids on "suspicion" of drug possession, or marking people as sex offenders for life because they took a leak in some bushes at the park, or giving paramilitary training to every police officer so they can get away with kicking handcuffed detainees in the head or tazing people braindead or emptying several clips of ammo into unarmed "suspects," and basically any and all manner of laws and procedures passed by Republicans and Democrats alike - with virtually no opposition - that are slowly inching America towards a completely authoritarian police state.
 
2012-07-25 12:05:51 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Well, right now, since it isn't moose rut, they're basically pitching tents anywhere they can between the black bears and fisher cats. Come september, they're going to have to move up into the trees, as we all do here in the great forest, when those slope antlered camel imitators get lathered into a sexual frenzy.

And what of the forest bison and giant beaver?


I don't know anything about their mating habits, but I've seen a couple of saucy looking beavers before.

McRat: Divided and Concord.

Not Divided in Concord?

A Dark Evil Omen: Occupy NH has been in communication with many of the other city occupations and affinity groups across the country about it; response has been pretty mixed with many of the anarchists (that is to say, the farthest left of left-wingers) angry about it. However, the Free Staters in particular are right-wing ultra-capitalist separatists and are essentially opposed to everything Occupy has ever stood for. Here in Seattle we had some local militia movement and Sovereign Citizen types try to move in on the last camp. They wouldn't accede to camp rules against weapons, so they left (and as it turned out they were there just to stir shiat up anyway and were talking trash about us in other fora). Is that "driving people out"?


Don't blame the FSP for what the people (read: ruffians) in Seattle are doing. The FSP exists to get people to NH, and takes no stand on any issues. Seriously. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable with the Alliance of the Libertarian Left?
 
2012-07-25 12:07:38 PM
Quick recap: So on one side, you have the libertarian types who carry guns in public, vote for austerity measures, and want government to be smaller, while on the other side, you have the progressive types who want increased government spending on education, more regulation of the financial markets, and are probably generally anti-gun. Before, they'd been able to work together on the larger issues of increased government transparency, money out of politics, and fighting economic injustice.

Now, however, this guy Provost isn't willing to get along with the libertarian types any more, and he's picked up his ball and is going home. He's doing so in a fairly dishonest way - incorporating Occupy NH as his own non-profit, run by like-minded people, and excluding all of those who disagree with his methods, whether libertarian or progressive. So, that's a crappy thing to do, and he should feel bad about it.
 
2012-07-25 12:11:17 PM

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Don't blame the FSP for what the people (read: ruffians) in Seattle are doing. The FSP exists to get people to NH, and takes no stand on any issues. Seriously. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable with the Alliance of the Libertarian Left?


That's bullshiat and we both know it. The FSP is nothing but a far-right group. They "don't support candidates" but are thrilled to have Ron Paul fellating them. They "don't take sides" but all of their rhetoric is laced with free market nonsense. Their short "pledge" excludes anarchists and left-libertarians prima facie.
 
2012-07-25 12:14:40 PM

phyrkrakr: Quick recap: So on one side, you have the libertarian types who carry guns in public, vote for austerity measures, and want government to be smaller, while on the other side, you have the progressive types who want increased government spending on education, more regulation of the financial markets, and are probably generally anti-gun. Before, they'd been able to work together on the larger issues of increased government transparency, money out of politics, and fighting economic injustice.


Actually, no. On one side you have the people who are ultra-capitalists and opposed to everything Occupy stands for and wants ONH to be a proxy for the FSP. On the second side you have liberals like Provost. On the third side you have the left-wing majority of Occupy that are not represented at all by what you're saying up there. It's crap that the liberals have claimed the ONH name like this, but at the same time the FSP has never worked with Occupy in good faith.
 
2012-07-25 12:15:09 PM

LordJiro: So when Occupy groups let anyone join (and some of the people who join turn out to be antisemites, car-shiatters, rapists, etc.), that's bad. But when an Occupy group is more selective about who joins...that's also bad?


Well if they were kicking out the antisemites, car-shiatters, rapists, etc that woudl be another story.

What I find particularly rich about this is that they want to keep these people out of their protests (restrict their right to protest) while all along they were arguing nobody had the right to restrict their protests.
 
2012-07-25 12:15:57 PM

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Don't blame the FSP for what the people (read: ruffians) in Seattle are doing. The FSP exists to get people to NH, and takes no stand on any issues. Seriously.


I think the fact that they want government to shrink down to the bare minimum required for "life liberty and property" means they're taking an implicit stand on many issues: NO GOVERNMENT!

The FSP wants more like minded individuals in order to create a critical mass. If the people moving to NH under the FSP were socialists who believe in massive government do you think the FSP would be happy or promote it?
 
2012-07-25 12:16:25 PM

liam76: LordJiro: So when Occupy groups let anyone join (and some of the people who join turn out to be antisemites, car-shiatters, rapists, etc.), that's bad. But when an Occupy group is more selective about who joins...that's also bad?

Well if they were kicking out the antisemites, car-shiatters, rapists, etc that woudl be another story.

What I find particularly rich about this is that they want to keep these people out of their protests (restrict their right to protest) while all along they were arguing nobody had the right to restrict their protests.


So telling people to go make their own group is the same as the police shooting them? Is that what you're going with, you cock?
 
2012-07-25 12:26:05 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: So telling people to go make their own group is the same as the police shooting them? Is that what you're going with, you cock?


Well occupy didn't say they wanted them to make their own group, they wanted them out of their protests (according to TFA). Occupy didn't just copmpalin abotu being shot they complained that they shoudl be able to protest on any public land they want.

So, no, that isn't "what I am going with" those are BS statement you pulled right out of your ass, probably because you are too simple minded to address their hypocrisy.

Here it is again in case you want to comment on what I actually said, but I expect you will continue to make shiat up.

What I find particularly rich about this is that they want to keep these people out of their protests (restrict their right to protest) while all along they were arguing nobody had the right to restrict their protests.
 
2012-07-25 12:28:55 PM

liam76: Here it is again in case you want to comment on what I actually said, but I expect you will continue to make shiat up.

What I find particularly rich about this is that they want to keep these people out of their protests (restrict their right to protest) while all along they were arguing nobody had the right to restrict their protests.


I am commenting on what you said.

What you are saying is that telling the Free Staters to GTFO and do their own thing is restricting their right to protest - which it isn't - in the same manner that the police descending on us with guns and gas is restricting our right to protest. That is what you are saying, you stupid fark.
 
2012-07-25 12:30:43 PM

Lernaeus: Well, you've just met some assholes, conspiracy theorists, and racists, some of which happen to be libertarian. If every asshole, conspiracy theorist, and/or a racist you've ever met is libertarian, and vice versa, then you've stumbled across a statistical miracle, or you're just engaging in some good ol' fashioned hyperbole against people you disagree with.


I don't know many... and I said it could just be a coincidence. I know five self described "libertarians". They're a rare breed in general. It just happens that all of the ones I've known are racists, conspiracy theorists, and assholes. And I'm not saying that some of the professed libertarian ideals aren't good ideas, it's just the mountain of crazy that comes along with it.

I'm an independent. I do tend to lean Democratic with my votes because I don't vote for sure fire losers and Republicans have disgusted me beyond any real chance of redeeming themselves (racism, sexism, favoring the rich, warmongering, hatred of gays, etc...). Some would say that makes me a Democrat, but I'm not. I don't agree with everything in their platform either, but I find them far less offensive than Republicans.

I don't know why the Libertarians I've met are all farked in the head... but I find it hard to believe that they're all outliers and don't represent Libertarians in any "normal" way.
 
2012-07-25 12:39:21 PM

Lernaeus: Now, most (not all) libertarians I've ever met are good people. They have jobs, own homes, raise smart kids, are involved in their communities at some level or another, and have interesting hobbies. They're not gun-waving morons in tricorn hats or survivalists or separatists or any other kind of fringe group. They're just folk

who vote Republican in every election.

I'm sure it's just a crazy coincidence that the libertarians so often vote the same as the gun-waving morons in tricorner hats, survivalists, separatists, and fringe groups vote.
 
2012-07-25 12:42:41 PM

EyeballKid: who vote Republican in every election


They are tightly affiliated... the obvious example is Ron Paul.
 
2012-07-25 12:49:21 PM
This might blow your mind, Subby, but the Libertarian movement is deep-throating the very idea of corporate personhood right this second.
 
2012-07-25 12:49:33 PM
Good, I don't like fascists either.
 
2012-07-25 12:55:00 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Their short "pledge" excludes anarchists and left-libertarians prima facie.

I'll agree with this, but as an anarchist living in NH because of the FSP, I'd like to disagree.

And the FSP lefties live out in Grafton or at the Bardo farm, maybe even out in Keene. The politicos (read: right wingers) live mostly in Manchester and Concord.
 
2012-07-25 01:03:49 PM

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Don't blame the FSP for what the people (read: ruffians) in Seattle are doing. The FSP exists to get people to NH, and takes no stand on any issues. Seriously. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable with the Alliance of the Libertarian Left?


I just wanted to say that Lysander Spooner and Henry George are heroes of mine.
 
2012-07-25 01:06:28 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: liam76: Here it is again in case you want to comment on what I actually said, but I expect you will continue to make shiat up.

What I find particularly rich about this is that they want to keep these people out of their protests (restrict their right to protest) while all along they were arguing nobody had the right to restrict their protests.

I am commenting on what you said.

What you are saying is that telling the Free Staters to GTFO and do their own thing is restricting their right to protest - which it isn't - in the same manner that the police descending on us with guns and gas is restricting our right to protest.


If they are telling the free staters to get out of their protest that is no different than the govt saying you can't protest in a park at a certain time.

I never made a single mention of the manner in which it will be enforced, that was you making shiat up.

And guess what dumbass, push comes to shove who and how do you think occupy will enforce telling free staters to GTFO of their protests?

To break it down for you another way (since you are either very stupid or dishonest) Occupy has been saying for about 10 months now that they have the right to occupy public parks agaisnt the rules that we as a democracy have set up to determine how parks are used. They are now saying that some other groups don't have the right to use those parks at the same time. Do you get it now? Do you still fail to see how Occupy crying that "you can't tell us how to use this park" and to now turn around and say to another group, "hey you can't use this park" is the height of hypocrisy.
 
2012-07-25 01:09:04 PM

liam76: What you are saying is that telling the Free Staters to GTFO and do their own thing is restricting their right to protest - which it isn't - in the same manner that the police descending on us with guns and gas is restricting our right to protest.

If they are telling the free staters to get out of their protest that is no different than the govt saying you can't protest in a park at a certain time.


You're a retard.
 
2012-07-25 01:33:27 PM
On the one hand, I think they should include as many people as possible if they want to be successful. On the other hand, I also think Occupy should learn from what happened to the Tea Party and make sure they don't get co-oped by corporatists.
 
2012-07-25 01:45:58 PM

dervish16108: On the one hand, I think they should include as many people as possible if they want to be successful. On the other hand, I also think Occupy should learn from what happened to the Tea Party and make sure they don't get co-oped by corporatists.


Back when the Tea Party wasn't run by corporatists...I believe that happened at the same time Neil Diamond released that dubstep record.
 
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