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(Mac Observer)   New computer trojan sidesteps user permissions. Good think I have a Mac. What? Oh crap   (macobserver.com) divider line 99
    More: Fail, FUD, user interaction, OS X, application software, computer trojan, security software  
•       •       •

5625 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Jul 2012 at 11:05 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-25 01:04:37 PM  

FunkyBlue: Icetech3: Funky, the machine is basically a server machine used as a workstation, and i wouldn't consider giving a customer anything that might have the slightest chance of messing up.. when the right part with the right HS is only a few bucks more:)

Oh, I'm the same way when I do my builds and repairs, but generally as long as the machine is designed properly with adequate ventilation, RAM doesn't generally overheat. My Corsair in my gaming machine have a simple heat spreader and haven't ever overheated in the four years I've been using them with normal fan ventilation of a standard case.

Most server machines are built to channel the air over critical components to cool them, if needed, so it surprises me that the internals weren't designed to do that in lieu of having large heatsinks (which, to me, just blocks more airflow through the case.)

/my threadjack over, too.


assuming it was designed as a workstation first, and not as a lower end machine with workstation buts stuffed into it, I'm looking right you you damn Dell Precision M4400 laptopdesktop paperweight
 
2012-07-25 01:04:43 PM  

loonatic112358: Professor_Falken: Carth: FTFA: "Intego says the trojan hasn't been spotted in the wild yet, although it has already updated its VirusBarrier X6 definition files to detect the potential threat."

So a trojan that hasn't been spotted in the wild and can already be detected is considered news because it affects OSX?

Ok I'll bite on this one:

It's news because its a virus that does not explicitly require any user intervention to infect a system. For Windows, this is an everyday occurance. For Macs, this is HUGE. Keep in mind that there are quite a few viruses out there for Macs, however all of them require you to run a file or to open a word/excel/iWork document with macros enabled. It also requires you to be dumb enough to say YES when it asks if you want to execute this file, and half of the time it requires a password to be entered by the user to let the offending software run.

For this new infection to happen, none of this is needed. You simply touch the file in any way (website for example) and BAM - Yer infected.

That is why this is news.


though if it's not out in the wild, where the hell did they find it?


The usual places. Leak on a VX board, someone submitted a sample, etc. Not in the wild just means an average joe isn't going to come across it (yet).

Contrary to popular belief, not all AV companies are about scaring users to sell software. They do some serious farking research on the back end.
 
2012-07-25 01:04:51 PM  

TsukasaK: Professor_Falken: this will be the end of the "Mac's are immune to viruses"

That's been over for a long time. Apple doesn't tout that particular line on their advertising any more, and in fact suggest running some third party security software.

You're still safer running a mac than a pc for general web browsing, fwiw. The amount of malware and targeting comparing mac users and windows users is pretty much not even in the same universe, let alone ballpark.


Ummm... thats not true.. my PC's that i use for web browsing have NEVER once had a virus... and i believe the OS has only had 5 reported virii in its existence .. of course i use linux though:) but its still a pc..
 
2012-07-25 01:04:52 PM  

loonatic112358: though if it's not out in the wild, where the hell did they find it?


On a site that hosts samples of malware, according to TFA.
 
2012-07-25 01:06:30 PM  

Vaneshi: Odd Bird: FTA: "...the trojan hasn't been spotted in the wild yet,..."

What does this mean? Could one of you clarify this for me?

/weak article, more of a twit

Short answer: "We made this, be scared and buy our software."


Which is pretty much what I thought. Thanks for the Short and Long versions.
 
2012-07-25 01:07:02 PM  
Is this where we come to voice our Apple-hate?

I got into an argument with Applecare phone support over whether I could schedule service with the local Apple -certified service tech (closest Apple store is 2 hours away) becasue when my shop bought this machine from CDW they used 3rd party ram to upgrade it from the paltry 256mb that Apple shipped it with ('04 PowerMac). Even though it ultimately was the motherlogic board failing the fact that this machine didn't use "Apple RAM, that is tested to much higher standards than other RAM..." Applecare was trying to deny me service. This was a brand new box, and started failing within a month.
 
2012-07-25 01:07:47 PM  
In before Apple gets in a tizzy, denies the possibility of any security holes, and blames their general user base.
 
2012-07-25 01:08:05 PM  

t3knomanser: loonatic112358: though if it's not out in the wild, where the hell did they find it?

On a site that hosts samples of malware, according to TFA.


it would seem i had a glaring hole in my head when i read the article
 
2012-07-25 01:09:09 PM  

Carth: FTFA: "Intego says the trojan hasn't been spotted in the wild yet, although it has already updated its VirusBarrier X6 definition files to detect the potential threat."

So a trojan that hasn't been spotted in the wild and can already be detected is considered news because it affects OSX?


Well Mac owners are generally so arrogant they would never run a virus/malware checker. There could be thousands of infected systems, and no-one knows.
 
2012-07-25 01:09:49 PM  

FunkyBlue:
Most server machines are built to channel the air over critical components to cool them, if needed, so it surprises me that the internals weren't designed to do that in lieu of having large heatsinks (which, to me, just blocks more airflow through the case.)


Most servers (pedestal chassis or rackable) are generally designed to be thrown somewhere well away from an actual person so they can focus on pushing air through the chassis with very little care about noise levels. The Pro is designed to sit on or under someone's desk so has to make some sacrifices so it isn't quite a tinitus generator. You'll often find similar 'odd' design choices made in other workstations.

If you play in the racks for any amount of time I highly recommend ear defenders or at least some of those foam ear plugs, whilst they can make you look silly or be a bit uncomfortable they're better than a constant ringing in your ears and going deaf.

/Ear plugs, no bells. Unlike some former co-workers.
 
2012-07-25 01:10:52 PM  

UseUrHeadFred: In before Apple gets in a tizzy, denies the possibility of any security holes, and blames their general user base.


Apple's actually been very good about admitting security flaws lately (and addressing them). They kind of have to, now that people actually give a shiat. The big one, and honestly far more serious than this bullshiatry, is the lack of protections on their AppStore anti-piracy features.

Mountain Lion finally brings us true ASLR, all the way down to the kernel, and the sandboxes work the way they're supposed to.
 
2012-07-25 01:12:16 PM  

Vacation Bible School: Is this where we come to voice our Apple-hate?

I got into an argument with Applecare phone support over whether I could schedule service with the local Apple -certified service tech (closest Apple store is 2 hours away) becasue when my shop bought this machine from CDW they used 3rd party ram to upgrade it from the paltry 256mb that Apple shipped it with ('04 PowerMac). Even though it ultimately was the motherlogic board failing the fact that this machine didn't use "Apple RAM, that is tested to much higher standards than other RAM..." Applecare was trying to deny me service. This was a brand new box, and started failing within a month.



You are supposed to put in the original parts when you send something back for an in warranty repair, otherwise they will know you violated the service agreement. This goes for most companies, not just Apple.
 
2012-07-25 01:12:41 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Well Mac owners are generally so arrogant they would never run a virus/malware checker.


The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.
 
2012-07-25 01:21:20 PM  

Vacation Bible School: I got into an argument with Applecare phone support over whether I could schedule service with the local Apple -certified service tech (closest Apple store is 2 hours away) becasue when my shop bought this machine from CDW they used 3rd party ram to upgrade it from the paltry 256mb that Apple shipped it with ('04 PowerMac). Even though it ultimately was the motherlogic board failing the fact that this machine didn't use "Apple RAM, that is tested to much higher standards than other RAM..." Applecare was trying to deny me service. This was a brand new box, and started failing within a month.


Very odd as my 2009 MBP went in for a fan replacement with both 3rd party RAM and a replacement, non-Apple supplied, HDD inside of it and nobody batted an eye lid. Both are considered user upgradable items and won't void a warranty if replaced.
 
2012-07-25 01:34:35 PM  

Icetech3: Ummm... thats not true.. my PC's that i use for web browsing have NEVER once had a virus... and i believe the OS has only had 5 reported virii in its existence .. of course i use linux though:) but its still a pc..


You know bloody well what I meant - when most people say "PC", they mean "PC running the most popular operating system", which is Windows.
 
2012-07-25 01:40:00 PM  

t3knomanser: UseUrHeadFred: In before Apple gets in a tizzy, denies the possibility of any security holes, and blames their general user base.

Apple's actually been very good about admitting security flaws lately (and addressing them). They kind of have to, now that people actually give a shiat. The big one, and honestly far more serious than this bullshiatry, is the lack of protections on their AppStore anti-piracy features.

Mountain Lion finally brings us true ASLR, all the way down to the kernel, and the sandboxes work the way they're supposed to.


Really? All I ever read about on Fark is the opposite. I bet you're right, though - the headlines are supposed to be inflammatory.

Macs do not get viruses, and when they do, Apple is firmly instructing its employees to deny, deny, deny

How did Apple react to the discovery of the Mac botnet? If you guessed "attack the messenger", give yourself a pat on the back
 
2012-07-25 01:40:17 PM  

t3knomanser: The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.


I guarantee you that malware writers will find a way around that.
 
2012-07-25 01:42:13 PM  

machoprogrammer: I guarantee you that malware writers will find a way around that.


you mean like decode the key, naaaah, that sort of thing never happens
 
2012-07-25 01:46:22 PM  

t3knomanser: Uchiha_Cycliste: Well Mac owners are generally so arrogant they would never run a virus/malware checker.

The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.


at least that's how it is supposed to work. =D
 
2012-07-25 01:56:09 PM  

machoprogrammer: I guarantee you that malware writers will find a way around that.


Oh, I'm sure. As it is, I think unpackaged code might still be able to run without those protections. And users can override this behavior, which I think you're going to see enough of to keep malware writers happy.

There is no silver-bullet, and somebody can find a way around any security measure.
 
2012-07-25 01:57:06 PM  
Thing Different.
 
2012-07-25 01:59:56 PM  

t3knomanser: machoprogrammer: I guarantee you that malware writers will find a way around that.

Oh, I'm sure. As it is, I think unpackaged code might still be able to run without those protections. And users can override this behavior, which I think you're going to see enough of to keep malware writers happy.

There is no silver-bullet, and somebody can find a way around any security measure.


Yep. And there will be exploits found in things like browsers, media players, etc... (like how Acrobat is exploited out the wazoo for Windows users). Or, possibly, they can execute it using real low level commands. Never know.
 
2012-07-25 02:05:29 PM  

machoprogrammer: And there will be exploits found in things like browsers, media players, etc


QuickTime is one of the biggest vulnerabilities on the Mac, and it's often the target of Pwn2Own. And since it's so tightly integrated in Safari, that makes Safari a huge risk. One of the nice things about Chrome is that it doesn't automatically load plugins (other than Flash, which is why I use a Flash blocker, and if I could rip it out of Chrome without making my own custom Chromium build, I would in a second).
 
2012-07-25 02:08:35 PM  

t3knomanser: Uchiha_Cycliste: Well Mac owners are generally so arrogant they would never run a virus/malware checker.

The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.


Let's hope they don't act like dicks and lock out legitimate programs because the vendor is suddenly no-longer authorized sometime after the program was released.
 
2012-07-25 02:10:00 PM  

Carth: FTFA: "Intego says the trojan hasn't been spotted in the wild yet, although it has already updated its VirusBarrier X6 definition files to detect the potential threat."

So a trojan that hasn't been spotted in the wild and can already be detected is considered news to the Mac Observer because it affects OSX?


FTFY, and yes. Also, Windows-centric sites report on Windows viruses and Linux-centric sites report on Linux viruses. Hooray for topical reporting!
 
2012-07-25 02:28:24 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Carth: FTFA: "Intego says the trojan hasn't been spotted in the wild yet, although it has already updated its VirusBarrier X6 definition files to detect the potential threat."

So a trojan that hasn't been spotted in the wild and can already be detected is considered news to the Mac Observer because it affects OSX?

FTFY, and yes. Also, Windows-centric sites report on Windows viruses and Linux-centric sites report on Linux viruses. Hooray for topical reporting!


Wait, Windows computers get viruses? GTFO! :-)
 
2012-07-25 02:28:25 PM  

Saberus Terras: t3knomanser: Uchiha_Cycliste: Well Mac owners are generally so arrogant they would never run a virus/malware checker.

The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.

Let's hope they don't act like dicks and lock out legitimate programs because the vendor is suddenly no-longer authorized sometime after the program was released.


It's not like apple would ever throw it's weight around to fix the price of books or songs, surely they would never say, it's a nice little program you go there, it'd be a shame if something happened to it's registry entry.
 
2012-07-25 02:29:20 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: It's not like apple would ever throw it's weight around to fix the price of books or songs


Of course they would, those prices were BROKEN! :-)
 
2012-07-25 02:54:28 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Saberus Terras: t3knomanser: Uchiha_Cycliste: Well Mac owners are generally so arrogant they would never run a virus/malware checker.

The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.

Let's hope they don't act like dicks and lock out legitimate programs because the vendor is suddenly no-longer authorized sometime after the program was released.

It's not like apple would ever throw it's weight around to fix the price of books or songs, surely they would never say, it's a nice little program you go there, it'd be a shame if something happened to it's registry entry.


Not sure if serious.
 
2012-07-25 03:07:12 PM  

Saberus Terras: Let's hope they don't act like dicks and lock out legitimate programs because the vendor is suddenly no-longer authorized sometime after the program was released.


They do have revocation in place, but they promise to only ever use it to nuke software that qualifies as malware, for what that's worth. The good news is that they can't stop you from running whatever software you want, and they don't really want to either.

Uchiha_Cycliste: It's not like apple would ever throw it's weight around to fix the price of books or songs


Apple's participation in price fixing is a joke. Apple set a rule: if you want us to sell your stuff, you have to give us the lowest price you give anyone else. That's not an entirely ridiculous policy for a retail outlet to have. It's hardly price fixing. I'd be more concerned about how Amazon essentially gets to tell people what Amazon's going to pay them. They're the WalMart of the Internet.
 
2012-07-25 03:21:19 PM  

machoprogrammer: t3knomanser: The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.

I guarantee you that malware writers will find a way around that.


I guarantee you that the end user will find a away around that too.

People will be people. Some want the _____ they're downloading from some site, and won't stop until they've done it despite other people or the OS itself telling you "OMFG, R U STUPID?"
 
2012-07-25 03:23:42 PM  
I suppose I should cop to totally and completely talking out my ass.
Not even for the lolz, just because my meeting wasn't as exciting as it could have been.
Lunch was better.
 
2012-07-25 03:45:13 PM  

t3knomanser: Uchiha_Cycliste: Well Mac owners are generally so arrogant they would never run a virus/malware checker.

The OS actually does have a malware registry that will nuke executable code that matches a signature quietly downloaded from Apple. And by default, after Lion, no OSX machine can run code that wasn't signed by either Apple's AppStore or by a developer authorized by Apple.


Not 100% true.
You can set three levels of security in Gatekeeper:
Run only Mac app store apps, run only signed code or run anything.
 
2012-07-25 04:23:02 PM  

Carth: FTFA: "Intego says the trojan hasn't been spotted in the wild yet, although it has already updated its VirusBarrier X6 definition files to detect the potential threat."

So a trojan that hasn't been spotted in the wild and can already be detected is considered news because it affects OSX?


If it hasn't been "spotted in the wild" yet, how did they find it? Or are they the ones that created it?
 
2012-07-25 04:31:38 PM  

Vaneshi: FunkyBlue:
Most server machines are built to channel the air over critical components to cool them, if needed, so it surprises me that the internals weren't designed to do that in lieu of having large heatsinks (which, to me, just blocks more airflow through the case.)

Most servers (pedestal chassis or rackable) are generally designed to be thrown somewhere well away from an actual person so they can focus on pushing air through the chassis with very little care about noise levels. The Pro is designed to sit on or under someone's desk so has to make some sacrifices so it isn't quite a tinitus generator. You'll often find similar 'odd' design choices made in other workstations.

If you play in the racks for any amount of time I highly recommend ear defenders or at least some of those foam ear plugs, whilst they can make you look silly or be a bit uncomfortable they're better than a constant ringing in your ears and going deaf.

/Ear plugs, no bells. Unlike some former co-workers.


Oh god yeah. I though Poweredges were loud until I heard some cisco-rebranded HPs (~2006 era, 1U, don't know the model) startup. If a Poweredge was a cessna on bootup, those HPs were a 747.
 
2012-07-25 04:35:03 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: You can set three levels of security in Gatekeeper:


I said "by default". The default settings are exactly as I described.
 
2012-07-25 04:50:10 PM  

Nexzus:

Oh god yeah. I though Poweredges were loud until I heard some cisco-rebranded HPs (~2006 era, 1U, don't know the model) startup. If a Poweredge was a cessna on bootup, those HPs were a 747.


40mm fans, gotta 'love' em.
 
2012-07-25 04:53:29 PM  

Vaneshi: Nexzus:

Oh god yeah. I though Poweredges were loud until I heard some cisco-rebranded HPs (~2006 era, 1U, don't know the model) startup. If a Poweredge was a cessna on bootup, those HPs were a 747.

40mm fans, gotta 'love' em.


Probably rebranded DL360 G4's... a total of twelve 40mm rotors running up to 10,000 rpm. Loud as all hell.
 
2012-07-25 06:30:36 PM  

Fubini: Remember, Apple is all about the experience (and paying a premium for it). They don't want to sell you stuff if you're not going to have an incredible experience with it.


I can't tell if this is a genuine attempt at explaining Apple to those of us who don't "get" it, or the most transparent macfag comment ever vaginated in a thread.
 
2012-07-25 07:06:10 PM  

dickfreckle: I can't tell if this is a genuine attempt at explaining Apple to those of us who don't "get" it, or the most transparent macfag comment ever vaginated in a thread.


and the monkey flings the poo.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net

/just fyi, malware is sometimes disguised as jpgs or other seemingly-innocuous file
//ric romero reporting
 
2012-07-25 07:42:34 PM  
Now Apple users can finally get to see what a successful and popular OS is really like.
 
2012-07-25 07:53:55 PM  

urban.derelict: dickfreckle: I can't tell if this is a genuine attempt at explaining Apple to those of us who don't "get" it, or the most transparent macfag comment ever vaginated in a thread.

and the monkey flings the poo.

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 462x218]
/just fyi, malware is sometimes disguised as jpgs or other seemingly-innocuous file
//ric romero reporting


But how will you enjoy the contents of the picture if you don't rename it *.js?
 
2012-07-25 08:19:00 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Now Apple users can finally get to see what a successful and popular OS is really like.


you mean a single trojan/virus that has never been seen in the wild?
 
2012-07-25 08:56:02 PM  

FlashHarry: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Now Apple users can finally get to see what a successful and popular OS is really like.

you mean a single trojan/virus that has never been seen in the wild?


I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'In the wild' -- TFA is unclear about this, at least to me. But if it's still rare, that only means that Mac OS isn't widespread enough. The prevalence of viruses specifically targeting Windows is all about the prevalence of that OS, not its inherent vulnerabilities compared to any other OS. If Apple fans get their secret wish and Mac becomes the new standard, you can bet on the same constant malware assault that Windows users have known for years.
 
2012-07-25 09:36:43 PM  

loonatic112358: FunkyBlue: Icetech3: Funky, the machine is basically a server machine used as a workstation, and i wouldn't consider giving a customer anything that might have the slightest chance of messing up.. when the right part with the right HS is only a few bucks more:)

Oh, I'm the same way when I do my builds and repairs, but generally as long as the machine is designed properly with adequate ventilation, RAM doesn't generally overheat. My Corsair in my gaming machine have a simple heat spreader and haven't ever overheated in the four years I've been using them with normal fan ventilation of a standard case.

Most server machines are built to channel the air over critical components to cool them, if needed, so it surprises me that the internals weren't designed to do that in lieu of having large heatsinks (which, to me, just blocks more airflow through the case.)
p
/my threadjack over, too.

assuming it was designed as a workstation first, and not as a lower end machine with workstation buts stuffed into it, I'm looking right you you damn Dell Precision M4400 laptopdesktop paperweight


I picked up a 5 year old, 690 dell precision workstation recently. Thing is amazing. Two dual core 2.8 xeon dempsey/12gb of ram, and a 72gb SAS drive. I put a 2tb sata into it, and a nice gpu, and the thing just hauls ass. Considering i only gave the guy 225 for it, the 250 i put into a hd and GPU made it into a pretty amazing gaming box.
 
2012-07-25 10:35:00 PM  

phedex:

I picked up a 5 year old, 690 dell precision workstation recently. Thing is amazing. Two dual core 2.8 xeon dempsey/12gb of ram, and a 72gb SAS drive. I put a 2tb sata into it, and a nice gpu, and the thing just hauls ass. Considering i only gave the guy 225 for it, the 250 i put into a hd and GPU made it into a pretty amazing gaming box.


Very tasty. You've also discovered why, in a lot of these Apple threads I end up laughing my ass off at some of the "better and cheaper" machines people post. 5 years old and would probably hand an i7 it's ass without too much trouble so long as you keep the Xeon's FPU going.
 
2012-07-25 11:07:29 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: The prevalence of viruses specifically targeting Windows is all about the prevalence of that OS, not its inherent vulnerabilities compared to any other OS


This is partially true, and has become much more true, recently. But reaching back to ancient history, Microsoft established a policy of not giving a crap about security. They continued to not give a crap until around XP SP2, which was a massive shift in their approach to security. Today, Microsoft is more serious about security than Apple, but Apple has two advantages: they are a smaller target, but they've also got lots of people doing the hard part of security for them. OSX is BSD. The BSD kernel is a solid base to build off of.
 
2012-07-25 11:32:03 PM  

t3knomanser: but they've also got lots of people doing the hard part of security for them. OSX is BSD. The BSD kernel is a solid base to build off of.


Two groups really, Apple only need to look after the GUIside of things, DSMOS.kext being something of a demarcation line between their responsibilities and the BSD people. Although I'd also suspect a few of the BSD developers have @apple.com e-mail addresses these days.

/Wonder if they'll change it to. DSOS now they've dropped Mac from the name.
 
2012-07-26 09:00:56 AM  

Vaneshi: phedex:

I picked up a 5 year old, 690 dell precision workstation recently. Thing is amazing. Two dual core 2.8 xeon dempsey/12gb of ram, and a 72gb SAS drive. I put a 2tb sata into it, and a nice gpu, and the thing just hauls ass. Considering i only gave the guy 225 for it, the 250 i put into a hd and GPU made it into a pretty amazing gaming box.

Very tasty. You've also discovered why, in a lot of these Apple threads I end up laughing my ass off at some of the "better and cheaper" machines people post. 5 years old and would probably hand an i7 it's ass without too much trouble so long as you keep the Xeon's FPU going.


What really shocked me, was there are similar ones on CL (at least indianapolis area) and between 2-300 is what they go for. I mean that is a pretty stout machine, and yes it definitely is on par with an i7. Considering the Hyperthreading, Win7 treats it as having 8 Cpu's. I don't know where else I could find that kind of performance for that small of amount of cash.
 
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