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(Mother Nature Network)   If you prefer to feed your pet dog only natural foods, the good news is you're giving him the diet he normally would eat in the wild. The bad news is you're also giving him the parasites he would normally eat in the wild   (mnn.com) divider line 63
    More: Interesting, American Veterinary Medical Association, health food store, pet owners, dogs, pets  
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3926 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2012 at 8:48 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-25 08:53:43 AM
Buy raw pet food? Why not just buy raw food and feed it to your pet?
 
2012-07-25 08:56:18 AM
Are these the same people who don't get their children vaccinated?


"I believe, feel like immunization is another part of fear-based medicine, it's not natural. I think the way we're made is perfect and I'd like to stick to that,"
 
2012-07-25 08:58:45 AM
Domesticated dogs/pets, aren't wild and haven't been in thousands of years. Yes there are wild dogs, but they're not typically kept as pets.
 
2012-07-25 09:05:12 AM
I love the nonsense logic that people use with these things. Switch to the diet we, or the organism, ate in the wild.... You know, because when the life expectency was half that means the lifestyle must be healthier..... somehow, magically....
 
2012-07-25 09:07:23 AM

abhorrent1: Domesticated dogs/pets, aren't wild and haven't been in thousands of years. Yes there are wild dogs, but they're not typically kept as pets.


^ that. As long as you're not buying super cheap, shiatty food, your pet will get far better nutrition from normal food than they will get from whatever the hell you decide is "natural" enough for them.

/my animals are all spoiled
//and kinda fat
 
2012-07-25 09:08:48 AM
A raw diet is a good alternative if your dog has special dietary needs, allergies, etc. My doberman gets a nasty skin reaction anytime she eats eggs, for example. You've probably never tried to find a dog food without egg in it, and although we eventually did after a while, a raw diet was something we considered before we figured out it was eggs causing the problem.
 
2012-07-25 09:09:09 AM

ltdanman44: Are these the same people who don't get their children vaccinated?


"I believe, feel like immunization is another part of fear-based medicine, it's not natural. I think the way we're made is perfect and I'd like to stick to that,"


I'm thinking the author is an idiot but I didn't see that particular nugget of derp in the article.
 
2012-07-25 09:09:17 AM
I mean honest to god, they are going to die in 10-15 years no matter what you feed them.

They are not little people. When you set them up to be your children, which is what alot of this silliness is all about, you are setting yourself up for some serious heartbreak when they die.

/Seen it in my own family. It ain't pretty.
 
2012-07-25 09:13:13 AM
My dog wants steak.

/oblig
 
2012-07-25 09:17:24 AM
Your dog digests the parasites on the days you forget to feed them, so it's win/win.
 
2012-07-25 09:17:26 AM
Anecdote: my cats adore raw food and are generally healthier while on it. They've lost a lot of weight, are more active, and their coats are much healthier. Also, unlike canned food, it doesn't smell vomitous.
 
2012-07-25 09:19:30 AM
What might be the "Natural" environment of a pug? I've got two Lab mutts and they see possums and raccoons as chew toys but not food. 10,000 years or so of domestication doesn't help their argument.
 
2012-07-25 09:21:16 AM
Today's pets are so far removed from their wild ancestors that they wouldn't survive on raw food...where does this stupidity originate
 
2012-07-25 09:24:42 AM
I let my doxies roam the street during the day. What they catch and eat is up to them. Of course the rabbit, feral cat and preschooler population has dropped off considerably since I started doing this. Now, they have to range further to meet (almost a pun) their dietary needs.

It's almost majestic watching three doxies take down a large kindergartner. When I see it happen, I yell "Circle of life, kid! Circle of life!"

Actually, the little beasts eat premium dog food. This morning, it was 4 am when they dined.
 
2012-07-25 09:25:22 AM

Basily Gourt: I mean honest to god, they are going to die in 10-15 years no matter what you feed them.

They are not little people. When you set them up to be your children, which is what alot of this silliness is all about, you are setting yourself up for some serious heartbreak when they die.

/Seen it in my own family. It ain't pretty.


Yup. I know a girl who has her dog's ashes in an urn. There's also a shrine to him where she keeps it and she has a tattoo of the dog. She goes out for drinks on his "birthday." And a whole other laundry list of batshiat nuttiness.

/ but she looks SOOOO damn good in a bikini
 
2012-07-25 09:28:05 AM

mongbiohazard: I love the nonsense logic that people use with these things. Switch to the diet we, or the organism, ate in the wild.... You know, because when the life expectency was half that means the lifestyle must be healthier..... somehow, magically....


But, raw foods...health...something something...mumble....
 
2012-07-25 09:29:34 AM

cajunns: Today's pets are so far removed from their wild ancestors that they wouldn't survive on raw food...where does this stupidity originate


Vets. Instead of putting your pet down when they get sick, they now offer treatments to keep them alive, in pain, for another 6 months or so.

Seen that too. 3K for hip surgery, dog dead in 6 months. 2-3k for cancer treatment, dog dead in 5 months.

Some of these vets need to be taken outside and flogged. They could give 2 shiats about animals. All they care about is your money.

/rant over
 
2012-07-25 09:29:54 AM

cajunns: Today's pets are so far removed from their wild ancestors that they wouldn't survive on raw food...where does this stupidity originate


Rarely is the raw food completely raw. It's usually fortified with added nutrients to support the specific dietary needs of domestic animals.
 
2012-07-25 09:31:10 AM

t3knomanser: Anecdote: my cats adore raw food and are generally healthier while on it. They've lost a lot of weight, are more active, and their coats are much healthier. Also, unlike canned food, it doesn't smell vomitous.


This.

Animals develop a digestion through basic evolution that is most efficient on certain foods. A few thousand years of selective breeding isn't going to drastically change this as they weren't bred for gastric reasons.

My cats are fed a slurry of chicken that has been cooked only superficially to kill parasites. Vitamins and supplements are then mixed in to ensure good health. They're large cats but not overweight. Their coats are healthy and the litter box is much easier to clean. Takes about 3 hours a month to prepare their food and about 30-40$ in ingredients.

Feeding a cat some kibble is a compromise of convenience but not ideal. I used to feed them kibble when they were young but their long coats kept getting oily and matted. One kept getting sinus issues. They were all overweight and constantly hungry (of course that may be because most cat food has flavor enhancers).
 
2012-07-25 09:34:12 AM
"easier for animals to break down easily"

redundantly repetitive writer is repeating things repetitively
over and over again
 
2012-07-25 09:35:45 AM
Is it a bad thing to just leave the food out all the time so the dog just eats when it gets hungry?

Mine eats like a cat. She just kind of gets around to it when she feels like it.
 
2012-07-25 09:42:30 AM
What parasites are in raw chickens? They only even semi-common pathogen is Salmonela which doesn't affect dogs. My plan is to feed my dog raw chicken after seeing what grain filled mass market food does to their weight and to their droppings.
 
2012-07-25 09:44:27 AM
I'm assuming that the raw meat you get in a pet store isn't wild game, because that would be enormously expensive.

Animals raised on a ranch grow up in conditions more crowded and different in myriad other ways than wild animals. I don't care if the meat is "free range," "organic," or what have you. That's just the economics of it.

if you feed your pet (a domesticated animal) raw meat from another domesticated animal, you are not replicating conditions found in nature.
 
2012-07-25 09:45:21 AM
We don't do anything fancy with our dog. He gets kibble measured out every day and maybe an egg or some leftover cooked chicken once a week. He likes red bell peppers and would probably prostitute himself for green beans. He definitely prefers them to store-bought treats. He's very "meh" about steak. I don't know what his problem is.
 
2012-07-25 09:47:02 AM
I don't understand why the food has to be raw. I've been making home-made dog food for about a year now. I usually cook up some chicken, beef, or sometimes turkey, mix it up with vegetables (peas, carrots, sweet potatoes), blueberries, and rice. I add some calcium, glucosamine, and fish oil. My dogs have never been healthier, and they love it. It's a little more expensive then the "good" brands of dog food, and a lot of work (I have two 100lb dogs), but it is worth it.
If you don;t want to feed your pet store bought food, that's fine. But, cook it properly to kill the parasites and bacteria.
 
2012-07-25 09:51:30 AM

Mrbogey: t3knomanser: Anecdote: my cats adore raw food and are generally healthier while on it. They've lost a lot of weight, are more active, and their coats are much healthier. Also, unlike canned food, it doesn't smell vomitous.

This.

Animals develop a digestion through basic evolution that is most efficient on certain foods. A few thousand years of selective breeding isn't going to drastically change this as they weren't bred for gastric reasons.

My cats are fed a slurry of chicken that has been cooked only superficially to kill parasites. Vitamins and supplements are then mixed in to ensure good health. They're large cats but not overweight. Their coats are healthy and the litter box is much easier to clean. Takes about 3 hours a month to prepare their food and about 30-40$ in ingredients.

Feeding a cat some kibble is a compromise of convenience but not ideal. I used to feed them kibble when they were young but their long coats kept getting oily and matted. One kept getting sinus issues. They were all overweight and constantly hungry (of course that may be because most cat food has flavor enhancers).


My cat won't eat raw food anymore. I don't know what he ate while he was a stray (probably bugs and whatever else he caught), but now he turns his nose up at anything that isn't the kibble or wet food he usually eats. I tried switching his foods a few times, but he never seems to take to it.
 
2012-07-25 09:51:48 AM

URAPNIS: Is it a bad thing to just leave the food out all the time so the dog just eats when it gets hungry?

Mine eats like a cat. She just kind of gets around to it when she feels like it.


Not really a yes or no question, depends on the dog and how it was raised. There is always dry food out for my mut and he'll eat as much or little as he wants. I've dog-sat(hmm, yeah it's a word-looks weird tho) other peoples dogs that will eat till they throw-up.
 
2012-07-25 09:55:24 AM

mongbiohazard: I love the nonsense logic that people use with these things. Switch to the diet we, or the organism, ate in the wild.... You know, because when the life expectancy was half that means the lifestyle must be healthier..... somehow, magically....


Depends. Like so many other things in life, it's about compromise and common sense. The caveman diet is a good example of a common sense return to "natural" living. We didn't stop eating vegetables and fruits and lean meats in favor of processed crap because the crap was healthier, we did it because the crap was cheaper.

Raw milk, on the other hand, is a great example of how some people take things too far and stop using common sense. We did switch to pasteurized milk because it was healthier. Much healthier. To say that you're going back to raw milk for health reasons is like saying you're going to stop washing cuts for health reasons. It's just patently stupid.

Virtually anytime people take anything to an absolute extreme they wind up being dumb, but in a lot of cases, including the "natural" fad, there are kernels of truth that can be extracted to help make smarter choices.
 
2012-07-25 10:05:37 AM

Boatmech: URAPNIS: Is it a bad thing to just leave the food out all the time so the dog just eats when it gets hungry?

Mine eats like a cat. She just kind of gets around to it when she feels like it.

Not really a yes or no question, depends on the dog and how it was raised. There is always dry food out for my mut and he'll eat as much or little as he wants. I've dog-sat(hmm, yeah it's a word-looks weird tho) other peoples dogs that will eat till they throw-up.


It's harder to monitor how much they eat, and it attracts vermin, but other than that, the only REAL argument I've seen is that dogs are pack animals that are more or less like wolves in that they do well when they gorge and then fast for a bit, and letting them pick at their own food may discourage some of their pack instinct. The argument is that you get a lot of "dog power" in their mind by deciding when they eat, and being the one who provides food.

I'm not sure how training my dogs to beg for food at specific times twice a day gives ME any more authority, but they've got ME trained.
 
2012-07-25 10:09:39 AM
Ok, so TFH says Natural, while TFA says Raw...

My doggie eats Natural, but not Raw. From the sound of it, still expensive... My boy is allergic to grains so I have to buy him the grain free, holistic food. It's much more expensive, it smells, and I have to make a separate trip to the specialty pet store. And trust me, I'd much rather get him whatever he likes from the grocery store isle that's cheap.

Except that I love him, and I'll do anything to make sure he's healthy and happy; expensive ass food included.
 
2012-07-25 10:09:54 AM
Been feeding my dogs raw food for 5 years now. They have never been healthier. I try to feed them deer from hunters' leftovers. Also feed them local turkey from a turkey processing plant near me. Since the deer is free, and the scraps from the turkey plant cost 8 cents per pound, it is actually MUCH cheaper for me to feed raw.

And you feed raw because the cooking kills off a lot of vitamins.
 
2012-07-25 10:14:01 AM
I make my dog's food out of whatever meat is on sale at the grocery store. I usually add a package or two of chicken livers, hearts, and gizzards to that for increased nutrition. It takes some time, because I chop everything up and then weigh it out and bag it. Then I freeze most of it, and thaw out two portions at a time. This system works very well for me and the dog. The cost is comparable to feeding her some of the more expensive dry dog foods. I've been doing it for about 2.5 years without any ill effects, except for the occasional bone chunk that gets vomited up. Also, she doesn't have that awful dog breath.
 
2012-07-25 10:30:32 AM

TBPlayer: I don't understand why the food has to be raw....


Because animals dont know how to cook. Their gastric system is meant to eat raw food and the contents of intestines, etc. Sure our industrialized farming has introduced some parasites that might not otherwise be there, but you dont have to cook it. Cooking is a human phenomena.
 
2012-07-25 10:31:10 AM
EvilVanMan:

Buy raw pet food? Why not just buy raw food and feed it to your pet?

My dog likes pork chops. But I cook them first. Raw meat has too many bacteria etc. Wild animals eat raw food because they can't cook.
 
2012-07-25 10:33:36 AM
Awesome. Re-train domesticated animals with a taste for blood. Pitbulls rejoice. Your dog wants steak.
 
2012-07-25 10:46:46 AM

Hobnay: And you feed raw because the cooking kills off a lot of vitamins.


Mostly hogwash.

Don't cook your oranges, most other things, just don't cook them into total mush or burn them.
 
2012-07-25 10:47:44 AM

DemoKnite: TBPlayer: I don't understand why the food has to be raw....

Because animals dont know how to cook. Their gastric system is meant to eat raw food and the contents of intestines, etc. Sure our industrialized farming has introduced some parasites that might not otherwise be there, but you dont have to cook it. Cooking is a human phenomena.


Cooking is a safety thing. Don't be silly. You don't HAVE to cook your food, but your dog doesn't HAVE to live a long, happy, parasite free life, either.
 
2012-07-25 10:50:11 AM

Hobnay: Been feeding my dogs raw food for 5 years now. They have never been healthier. I try to feed them deer from hunters' leftovers. Also feed them local turkey from a turkey processing plant near me. Since the deer is free, and the scraps from the turkey plant cost 8 cents per pound, it is actually MUCH cheaper for me to feed raw.

And you feed raw because the cooking kills off a lot of vitamins.


Incidentally, deer meat has a LOT of pathogens in it. WAY more than any commercially available meat. Trichinosis is almost entirely gone from pork sources, but it's a problem for deer. Cook your deer for your dogs.
 
2012-07-25 11:01:05 AM
FTA: Many believe that the typical bag of pet food is bad for pets because it includes a lot of undesirable ingredients such as fillers, chicken by-products and other animal by-products not considered fit to be consumed by humans

I've never understood what people say "chicken by-product" is bad for dogs. If my dog was on its own and caught a chicken, it would eat the whole chicken, and not be concerned with by-product. Is there something I'm missing? Or do people think that ground up chicken bones are just really unhealthy?

Also, who cares if something isn't fit to be consumed by humans, most raw meat isn't fit to be consumed by humans.

/Did look into a raw diet for my pup when he was having skin issues
 
2012-07-25 11:02:07 AM
Except, of course, he's a domesticated dog, who doesn't live "in the wild", nor have at least ten generations before him.


/sucker born every minute
 
2012-07-25 11:04:34 AM
FTA: Without a pet to feed myself, I look at this issue as an outsider.

That should have been at the beginning of TFA, would have saved me a lot of time.
 
2012-07-25 11:10:12 AM
Recently adopted a rescue pup, who'll eat anything. Including medications prescribed by a vet. Have him on a sensible diet, natch, but dogs ftw over cats when it comes to giving meds!
 
2012-07-25 11:14:32 AM

the.squid: I've never understood what people say "chicken by-product" is bad for dogs. If my dog was on its own and caught a chicken, it would eat the whole chicken, and not be concerned with by-product. Is there something I'm missing? Or do people think that ground up chicken bones are just really unhealthy?


The concern here is the quantity of these ingredients in the food. People (rightly) should be careful that those filler elements don't comprise the bulk of the food.

As you said, if the animal caught a live chicken, it would consume the meat and probably some of the "by products" in that process. The majority of that meal would be from the good parts of the animal
 
2012-07-25 11:15:09 AM

SoupJohnB: Recently adopted a rescue pup, who'll eat anything. Including medications prescribed by a vet. Have him on a sensible diet, natch, but dogs ftw over cats when it comes to giving meds!


I have to force my dog to swallow flea/heartworm meds.
Chunky peanut butter works sometimes.
She usually sucks the peanut butter off of the pill and spits it back out.
I go through 15 minutes of utter rage once a month.
 
2012-07-25 11:21:25 AM
My dog has skin issues and horendous allergies. Since we started feeding him raw meat he has gotten much better. To those of you knocking this diet you are completely wrong. He's happier, healthier, his shiat looks better, and he runs around and plays much more than he used to. He's even lost weight since all that processed food had him bloated.

It's not that expensive either. Of course I do have a small dog.
 
2012-07-25 11:32:12 AM

Uncontrolled_Jibe: What might be the "Natural" environment of a pug?


A grave. Or a bonfire.
 
2012-07-25 11:45:17 AM

Portia: We don't do anything fancy with our dog. He gets kibble measured out every day and maybe an egg or some leftover cooked chicken once a week. He likes red bell peppers and would probably prostitute himself for green beans. He definitely prefers them to store-bought treats. He's very "meh" about steak. I don't know what his problem is.


So would my dog. She lurvs her green beans.

If given a choice between steak and chicken, that chicken will be gone.

These are her favorite treats.

img232.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-25 11:46:16 AM

mongbiohazard: I love the nonsense logic that people use with these things. Switch to the diet we, or the organism, ate in the wild.... You know, because when the life expectency was half that means the lifestyle must be healthier..... somehow, magically....


i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-25 11:57:25 AM
I guess it only makes sense that people are passing their imaginary sensitivities to food onto their pets now.
 
2012-07-25 12:06:34 PM

TBPlayer: I don't understand why the food has to be raw. I've been making home-made dog food for about a year now. I usually cook up some chicken, beef, or sometimes turkey, mix it up with vegetables (peas, carrots, sweet potatoes), blueberries, and rice. I add some calcium, glucosamine, and fish oil. My dogs have never been healthier, and they love it. It's a little more expensive then the "good" brands of dog food, and a lot of work (I have two 100lb dogs), but it is worth it.
If you don;t want to feed your pet store bought food, that's fine. But, cook it properly to kill the parasites and bacteria.


If nothing else, cooking it is safer for us humans who have to handle the food. I have had two highly respected holistic vets nix raw for my animals, one because she'd "seen how food is handled before it gets to market" and the other because she'd read a study or few on how raw bones (usually part of a raw food diet) can cause microperforations in the digestive tract, contrary to popular belief that they're safe.

My Beaglish Girl has been fed mostly home-cooked since she was four years old, after her first of three bouts with cancer. It's half chicken and half veggies with carrots, broccoli, and cauliflower, plus several supplements including the ever important calcium. She'll be 16 in less than two weeks, and while she's now fairly decrepit due to poor conformation and has had a few other health issues anyway, she's still quite happy, bright eyed, and causing trouble :) I still take her to agility class to let her play on the easy stuff.

www.wonderpuppy.net
 
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