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(Yahoo)   Eagle Scouts return their medals to the Boy Scout of America. Upset over the organization's pro-heterosexual stance   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 132
    More: Misc, Eagle Scout, batty boys, Boy Scouts of America, heterosexuals, molest children, Boing Boing, Christopher Baker  
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13691 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2012 at 11:28 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-07-24 06:16:45 PM  
31 votes:
Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.
2012-07-24 09:34:53 PM  
18 votes:
serial_crusher: I disagree with the stupid rules currently in action, but still stand by the organization and its principles. Sending back your Eagle is like moving to Canada because you don't like the guy that got elected as President.

Uh, no.

Sending back your Eagle Medal is like returning your Presidential Medal of Freedom because the Administration is doing something flippiantly idiotic. It's a major statement of protest against their bigotry. Being an Eagle Scout is a big deal in the adult world - it gives you an edge on getting into certain colleges, getting into education programs that are restricted access, getting certain jobs and political appointments, consideration for military rank upon enlistment, and even getting loans and financhial aid.

You're basically saying you accomplished one of the hardest things to do as an adolescent. It signifies that you have commited a substantial amount of years of your life, starting at the age of 11, to completeing the requirements and obtaining over 21 merit badges which each have their own individual, time consuming criteria, that you've served in multiple positions of leadership in your troop, and that you've spent hundreds of hours doing community service projects, not to mention an individual Eagle Scout project which you spend a lot of time and money doing, and has to be approved at a regional level by the BSA. And you have to be done BEFORE your 18th birthday, and have your approval for the award. Otherwise, you become inelegable. Less than 10% of Boy Scouts ever get to the point where they are even considered.

This isn't something you get just for being in Scouts until you're 18. You work your ass off to earn this thing. And it means a LOT outside of scouts.
2012-07-24 09:11:49 PM  
8 votes:
I disagree with the stupid rules currently in action, but still stand by the organization and its principles. Sending back your Eagle is like moving to Canada because you don't like the guy that got elected as President.
2012-07-24 08:10:54 PM  
8 votes:
Uh, why does this thread not have the Hero tag?

That takes a lot of balls, and principles to do. The amount of your life you spend earning that Eagle Scout medal is incredible, and to willingly hand it back over their bigotry is a huge step to take.
2012-07-24 06:45:44 PM  
6 votes:
Actually, it's more of a pro-bigotry stance, but who's counting?
2012-07-24 11:48:01 PM  
4 votes:
Eagle Scout earned: Jan 1995.
Eagle Scout returned: Jan 2011
2012-07-24 11:10:18 PM  
4 votes:

WorldCitizen: They're a private organization, so they should be allowed to be bigots.


...without government support for them while they're bigots.
2012-07-25 12:14:59 AM  
3 votes:

stiletto_the_wise:

And to be honest, if someone did mention to me they were an Eagle Scout today, my first thought, sadly, would be, "So how's the gay bashing going?" ...even though I know better (some of my family members are Scouts).



That's like going up to a white guy and asking how the racism is going. Or a Muslim and asking how the terrorism is going. Guilt by association does not become you.
2012-07-25 12:09:14 AM  
3 votes:
I AM an Eagle Scout, and this is stupid. It's not like this is a new stance for the Scouts. These Eagle Scouts knew(or should have known) this was policy when they got their medals, and now they turn them back in? What's the point? It would make sense if it was a reversal of ideals, but it's not. Same with the Chick-Fil-A thing. Besides, what does it matter? Chick-Fil-A makes food, not pointy things to skewer gay people, their thoughts about homosexuality, or quantum physics, or is the sky really blue does not affect that. Same with the scouts. They teach real world problem solving, survival skills, integrity, and yes some religion....but who cares, they get the boys away from the TV for a little bit and make them that much better. It's not like (I will preface this with a huge MOST) they are teaching kids that "gay are bad, mmkay", they just, as a private club, decided not to allow openly gay members and leaders. Narrow line, but there it is.
2012-07-24 11:56:42 PM  
3 votes:
Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.
2012-07-24 11:52:28 PM  
3 votes:

CuttySupreme: I'm sick and tired of all this whining. Don't join Boy Scouts then, go start queer scouts or something.


Like baseball and the Negro League?

"Whining" wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't for bigots, but sure, blame the victim.
2012-07-24 11:47:52 PM  
3 votes:

The more you eat the more you fart: Former Eagle Scout. I did this exact thing in protest of a gay boy in my area being tossed out of the Boy Scouts for nothing except being gay.

Wrote a scathing letter to the bsa, and enclosed in the certified-mail box was my Eagle Scout medal, badge, and patch.

Only diff is that i didnt AW about it like this guy is.


The thing is, if you don't make a scene about it, nothing is going to change.

Do you think the BSA actually cares if some kid returns all his badges?

They only care that they are getting bad press. So if you're not giving it to them, they're still farking homosexuals over.
2012-07-24 11:42:06 PM  
3 votes:
I'm sick and tired of all this whining. Don't join Boy Scouts then, go start queer scouts or something.
2012-07-24 11:15:07 PM  
3 votes:

abb3w: WorldCitizen: They're a private organization, so they should be allowed to be bigots.

...without government support for them while they're bigots.


kinda my thoughts. they are more than welcome to private their asses out of our schools, municipal functions, and federal funding.

hell, as long as they get federal funding to the extent they do, the pretense of being 'a private organization' is a punchline to a bad joke.
2012-07-24 09:47:57 PM  
3 votes:
That's an admirable thing that they're doing.

I have to say that I'm so glad I was a Girl Scout. They'll take anyone, regardless of religion or sexual orientation. I'm very proud of being associated with that organization. I wish these men returning their Eagle Medals could say the same.
2012-07-24 07:45:43 PM  
3 votes:
Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
2012-07-25 02:00:06 PM  
2 votes:
GTFO... Go start your own organization then and let THEM have their culture too. Same thing with Augusta and their Men only rule. Let them be and create your own farking club with your own farking rules.

Forcing others to accept you is not acceptance at all.
2012-07-25 01:12:27 PM  
2 votes:
I was in Boy Scouts. I was a Life Scout (one step below Eagle) by the age of thirteen, but I lost interest before getting my Eagle. I really wasn't impressed with the organization. I had to put up with quite a bit of harassment, and the leaders thought it was important that we all be macho. Perhaps, it was just my troop, but I doubt it. The Boy Scouts seem to have a variety of deficiencies. I'm sure there are good troops out there, but for me, I became a principled adult despite my time in Boy Scouts.
2012-07-25 10:39:08 AM  
2 votes:

golem222: I am getting so sick and tired of the gay community telling people what they should and should not believe as well as think. Being gay is not a normal behavior no matter how much you try to tell me it is. Furthermore there is no reason on earth that will make me think being gay is "ok". Keep the homo out of scouts, for god sakes the organization is gay enough without having actual gays running it.


See, that's the thing. Being gay is not normal behavior for a straight person. Being gay is perfectly normal for a gay person. Their brains are wired differently than yours, and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you stop being an asshole.
2012-07-25 05:39:29 AM  
2 votes:

untaken_name: Would you mind explaining precisely how bigotry can objectively be defined as "evil"?


Bigotry harms people - emotionally, socially, economically, and/or physically - without just cause. Harming people without just cause is evil.

Bigotry is treating other people in a way you would not want to be treated. The ethic of reciprocity (AKA the golden rule) is the foundation of civilized (AKA good) behavior; breaking it is therefore evil.
2012-07-25 02:41:25 AM  
2 votes:

Fluorescent Testicle: WeenerGord: [hateful derp]

I've seen you in hundreds of threads and you've always seemed sane before today. Recovering from a severe head injury, or what?


Are you are serious? Do you actually know anything about gays? Maybe you should do some reading. Very many gays are into power play, abuse, S&M. B&D, the list is endless. Pick up a tell all book, read a news story. Did you read upthread where bigstoopidbruce mentioned Jesse Dirkhising? why don't you search that name and read the horrible thing that happened to that poor kid. Do you know about bug chasers, gays who try to catch AIDS to prove how gay they are? If you were gay and cared about other gays, why would you wish that on them?

And I'm a bad person for agreeing that the BSA can keep out the openly gay if they want to? Fark all ya'll who don't care if kids might be harmed just because YOU want to boast about how cool and open and non-bigoted you are. Maybe when you grow up you will learn better sense.
2012-07-25 02:13:51 AM  
2 votes:

VendorXeno: Bigotry is as bad as it gets


Bullshiat. There's worse things in this world than bigotry. Not everyone in this world can be forced to act like they like you. If you want more people to like you, try being a better person.

Maybe more people would trust gays if a few more of them were less slutty and predatory and outrageous than they have been for years.
2012-07-25 02:13:07 AM  
2 votes:
I'm an Eagle Scout, and I'll return my medal and patch if and when the BSA ever decides to forgo its principles as a private, voluntary organization in favor of political correctness based on choices made by a particular group of people. So for now, I'll be keeping them.
2012-07-25 12:56:15 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: DempseySR26: Funny the people here calling the scouts bigots are bigots against Christians. Hypocrites.

I don't care if you're Christian, Islamic, Jewish, or worship Celestia herself.

Your beliefs don't give you a blank check to actively and unquestioningly exclude or discriminate against anyone for inborn characteristics - be it race, sexual orientation, or ethnic origin. And it's not intolerance to speak out against anyone who would publically hide behind their percieved righteousness and holiness to spout out such nonsense.


I don't see how Christians are making holding back any gay person from sticking his manhood in a place where another man evacuates his bowels. All they are saying is what they believe. They aren't keeping gay people from doing anything. Want to get married? Get religion because it's a religious ritual. Then go find a priest, preacher, rabbi, imam, wiccan, tree, cow or whatever and just say your vowels. Leave other people alone. It's not cute.
2012-07-25 12:53:35 AM  
2 votes:
browntimmy: Seriously? You take that much pride in being a farking Eagle scout? I think I was a Weeblo, that means about as much to me now as my Tee-Ball trophy.

Yeah, because having your mom pay the 50 buck a year membership fee, and making leather wallets while you set around the camp fire singing kumbiyah is the same as spending years of your life, thousands of hours, and a lot of money earning your Eagle Scout.
2012-07-25 12:40:02 AM  
2 votes:
Funny the people here calling the scouts bigots are bigots against Christians. Hypocrites.
2012-07-25 12:22:26 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic:

And, as individuals, we have the right to stand up for what we believe in, and criticise the scouts for the position they have taken. Just because they are a private group, does not give them a free pass for what they do that is discriminatory and bigoted. They deserve to be called out on that.

The reason it matters is because the push a belief that someone is flawed and evil, and worthy of being excluded from something, simply because of a trait they had no control over, and does not define who they are any more than your heterosexuality defines you. That's the tantamount issue here. They are teaching these kids and teenagers to hate someone for their sexual orientation, not the character of their being.


All throughout my scouting days, gayness never once came up, I wasn't taught anything about it, one way or another. We concentrated on merit badges and camping. You are also associating freedoms with bigotry. I once tried to join the NAACP, much to my surprise, those racist bigots didn't let my white butt in. Kinda sounds a little like that....again, my point in the Boobies, before I sorta drifted, was that these guys knew(or should have known) the policy when they earned their Eagle Awards, now it kinda seems like grandstanding.
2012-07-25 12:20:34 AM  
2 votes:

Alleyoop: Don't like it? Go start your own club and leave ours alone.


step away from the tax teat, and your wish may be granted.
2012-07-25 12:19:55 AM  
2 votes:
Don't like it? Go start your own club and leave ours alone.
2012-07-25 12:07:58 AM  
2 votes:
stiletto_the_wise: Come on... that's stretching it a bit.

I've never filled out a job application and had a check box that said "Eagle Scout".
The mortgage paperwork I had to fill out didn't ask.
Scouting has never come up in conversation with friends or co-workers, and I don't see any doors that were shut to me because I wasn't an Eagle Scout.

And to be honest, if someone did mention to me they were an Eagle Scout today, my first thought, sadly, would be, "So how's the gay bashing going?" ...even though I know better (some of my family members are Scouts).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Scout_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)#Afte r _becoming_an_Eagle_Scout

Eagle Scouts are expected to set an example for other Scouts and to become the leaders in life that they have demonstrated themselves to be in Scouting. As such, they are disproportionately represented in the military, service academy graduates, in higher education and academia, major professions, the clergy, business and politics.[36][37] Eagle Scouts who enlist in the U.S. Armed Forces may receive advanced rank in recognition of their achievements.[38][39][40]
Adult Scouters who earned Eagle Scout as a youth may wear a square knot emblem with a red, white, and blue striped square knot above the left shirt pocket; the medal may be worn on formal occasions[23]. Eagle Scouts may join the National Eagle Scout Association (NESA), which serves as a fellowship and communications board for all Eagle Scouts.
NESA directly administers several Eagle Scout scholarships.[41] The American Legion,[42] the National Jewish Committee on Scouting,[43] and the Sons of the American Revolution[44] offer scholarships directed toward Eagle Scouts. Many colleges and universities, local businesses, churches and other organizations may offer similar scholarships.
The Distinguished Eagle Scout Award is given only to Eagle Scouts for distinguished service in their profession and the community for a period of at least 25 years after earning Eagle Scout.

It's a big farking deal.
2012-07-25 12:06:40 AM  
2 votes:
Looks like Farkers have learned a new word: bigot.

I have no problem with either: BSA having a pro-hetero stance, nor the Eagle Scouts sending back their medals. We all make choices in life and our lives are made better, worse or unchanged by them. In this case, the symbolic gesture will only make the Eagle Scouts feel better by making a stand for what they believe, but ultimately will not make their lives any better or worse.

Sorry Farkers, but on this one you're just trolling...
2012-07-24 11:59:53 PM  
2 votes:

Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.


Because Jerry Sandusky is so gay. The wife of 45 years, how totally gay that was.
2012-07-24 11:47:36 PM  
2 votes:

BKITU: I didn't grow up in an area with a significant Muslim community so I don't think there were any in my troop, but I remember enough from my various handbooks to know they would have been welcome.


heap: abb3w: WorldCitizen: They're a private organization, so they should be allowed to be bigots.

...without government support for them while they're bigots.

kinda my thoughts. they are more than welcome to private their asses out of our schools, municipal functions, and federal funding.

hell, as long as they get federal funding to the extent they do, the pretense of being 'a private organization' is a punchline to a bad joke.


THIS.

They are either private or they aren't. Using federal, state, and municipal resources, and receiving federal funding, and then claiming they can be bigoted fundy assholes because they are a private entity is bullshiat.
2012-07-24 11:37:33 PM  
2 votes:

Skywolf Philosopher: I don't think homosexuality is right myself,



I don't think anyone should marry outside their race
2012-07-24 11:33:24 PM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: serial_crusher: I disagree with the stupid rules currently in action, but still stand by the organization and its principles. Sending back your Eagle is like moving to Canada because you don't like the guy that got elected as President.

Uh, no.

Sending back your Eagle Medal is like returning your Presidential Medal of Freedom because the Administration is doing something flippiantly idiotic. It's a major statement of protest against their bigotry. Being an Eagle Scout is a big deal in the adult world - it gives you an edge on getting into certain colleges, getting into education programs that are restricted access, getting certain jobs and political appointments, consideration for military rank upon enlistment, and even getting loans and financhial aid.

You're basically saying you accomplished one of the hardest things to do as an adolescent. It signifies that you have commited a substantial amount of years of your life, starting at the age of 11, to completeing the requirements and obtaining over 21 merit badges which each have their own individual, time consuming criteria, that you've served in multiple positions of leadership in your troop, and that you've spent hundreds of hours doing community service projects, not to mention an individual Eagle Scout project which you spend a lot of time and money doing, and has to be approved at a regional level by the BSA. And you have to be done BEFORE your 18th birthday, and have your approval for the award. Otherwise, you become inelegable. Less than 10% of Boy Scouts ever get to the point where they are even considered.

This isn't something you get just for being in Scouts until you're 18. You work your ass off to earn this thing. And it means a LOT outside of scouts.


Well stated.
2012-07-24 11:07:54 PM  
2 votes:
Lots of my friends (Mormons) got their Eagle, and it is a big deal and a LOT of work. I respect any young man who puts in the service, time, effort, and sacrifice. It speaks volumes about his character. It also says a lot to send back something he worked so hard for in protest.

Also, what BarkingUnicorn said.
2012-07-24 10:45:54 PM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: Good luck with that. The structure of the BSA is that of an organization which not only condones religious fundamentalism, but actively works to encourage it. Local member organizations are given a blank slate to run out those who are not religious - Atheists and Agnostics - and it's a rather uncomfortable position for anyone who is NOT a Christian due to their close ties with local churches.


i can't speak to any national aspects, as...well...i didn't last long enough....but at the local level i partook of the boyscout's splendor, it wasn't even a matter of 'running out the non christians', it was a subset of a group of pentecostal churches that wanted to run out anybody who wouldn't jabber and flail along with them.

tying knots? i'm cool.
starting fires? alright.
making leather bracelets? getting borderline on my arts and crafts phobia, but ok.
jabbering for jesus? erm....i'll be over....there.
2012-07-24 09:48:42 PM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: serial_crusher: I disagree with the stupid rules currently in action, but still stand by the organization and its principles. Sending back your Eagle is like moving to Canada because you don't like the guy that got elected as President.

Uh, no.

Sending back your Eagle Medal is like returning your Presidential Medal of Freedom because the Administration is doing something flippiantly idiotic. It's a major statement of protest against their bigotry. Being an Eagle Scout is a big deal in the adult world...


I meant to add that I'm an Eagle myself. Yes to all those things you said. It's hard work. I earned it fair and square, regardless of some stupid rules I don't agree with, which is why I'm not sending it back.

The folks who are sending theirs back (ok, it's really just that one guy) are commendable. Being that dedicated to something you believe is a good thing. I'm just saying I wouldn't go that far, and I don't feel it's necessary to go that far. Ideally I'd like to change the BSA from within, but realistically I haven't been that active in my adult years.
2012-07-24 07:47:04 PM  
2 votes:
Because it's as if we all needed more evidence to respect individual scouts than the club they joined?
2012-07-24 06:56:11 PM  
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.


Heh heh. Point.
2012-07-26 12:02:40 AM  
1 votes:

captcaveman: Since when has being a private organization been a shield of any fashion from protests against moral failings?
A private organization that does things that people find morally objectionable are bound to be protested against, whether those things are legal or not.
And the bolded part of your comment is only half true -- it is not against the law, but it IS bigoted.

We need to find a new word here. I don't hate people for what they choose to be. So I can't be a bigot. You want to put your penis in a mans arse you can, this will not produce a child. The two can love each other until they die. Two men can adopt or find a segregate mother to have a child together. Two women can have sperm inserted to genetically resemble each other or adopt.

A group of people that wish to promote the natural course of the human condition can't be called bigots. We just need to find another word.


You are a bigot. Sorry.
2012-07-25 11:18:43 PM  
1 votes:

casual disregard: Nobody I know believes in Bi. The straights think it's cheating, the gays think it's lying.


I'm so sick of this attitude from both groups, too. Fortunately it's not many folks who are that extreme about it, and usually the folks who aren't getting any at all anyway. Being bi does have it's advantages...doubles your odds of a date on Friday night.
2012-07-25 05:58:20 PM  
1 votes:

Mistymtnhop: Skywolf Philosopher: BarkingUnicorn: Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.

SHMOOTH

Eh, I don't think homosexuality is right myself, but I do advocate free will. Of course, anyone that is for the topic, why would I be with them?

/In other words, I agrees.

What do you mean by "I don't think homosexuality is right myself"? I'm assuming that if you are not gay that you would not practice homosexuality, and therefore it does not affect you. If this is the case how are your thoughts or feelings regarding homosexuality relevent?


Homosexuality decreases the overall human population, and without a human population, there would be no need for morality; ergo, that which decreases the population is inherently immoral. Unless you have a sound counter to this logical postulate that would disprove it.
2012-07-25 05:15:53 PM  
1 votes:
They didn't do that, they simply have an idea of what they want to promote as a healthy way of life and they can because its a choice. You don't have to join the boy scouts of America. There are other organizations that will accept anyone of any orientation. The Boy and Girl Scouts of America will not be one of them.

Nice try, the Girls Scouts of America does not have a policy against lesbian members:

"As a private organization, Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. respects the values and beliefs of each of its members and does not intrude into personal matters. Therefore, there are no membership policies on sexual preference."


It doesn't change anything. The point IS that a private organization is private and they are not required by law to accept anyone they don't want to.
2012-07-25 04:31:25 PM  
1 votes:

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Perhaps, it was just my troop,


It was just your troop. I was active for a long time, and met a lot of scouts and leaders from different troops through the OA. Yeah, some were macho dicks or white trash, but most were great people.

My general rule about scouts is that the higher on the ladder you go, the crappier the organization becomes. The national organization is owned by Mormons and Southern Baptists, with predictable results. The more local you get, the better the people and organizations are.

\Eagle
2012-07-25 04:21:29 PM  
1 votes:
When did Fark turn into the op ed section of The Advocate?
2012-07-25 01:51:44 PM  
1 votes:
"Then they are bigots, and deserve nothing but shame. The Boy Scouts of America are supposed to be the standard bearer for honorable behavior. Instead, they are a disgrace, a blight on American culture. Any Scout who is old enough to understand the situation and does not either follow these folks' example or actively work to change BSA's policy is equally culp ...

Is the rest of the world supposed to understand from you that no group can be formed and exclude others than whom they choose without being scorned? It really doesn't matter what we say to each other about the subject, the Scouts will go on like groups of men only clubs will go on and LBGT people will create their own groups and time will continue flowing. Attempting to bring down the rights of others to choose to your level will lead to nothing more than higher sales of aspirin.
2012-07-25 12:33:31 PM  
1 votes:


The Boy Scouts of America's policy of prohibiting membership by homosexuals is, in fact, "bigotry". Your claim, therefore is a lie.

Its still a private organization. Your argument is invalid.

That it is a private organization does not alter the fact of their bigotry. Your claim remains a lie, and you are therefore a liar. Consequently, I am now curious as to why any claim issued by you should be believed.


OK, I'll bite. Because I was a scout and I have no problem with the policy. This is an open forum. I don't have to care about your opinion and you don't have to care about mine. Its called the first amendment. The fact is that private organizations can have their own policy to promote their own way of life.

It is it not bigotry because they are not actively promoting hate. That would be like my all black church going out and saying that we don't want white people in our church.

They didn't do that, they simply have an idea of what they want to promote as a healthy way of life and they can because its a choice. You don't have to join the boy scouts of America. There are other organizations that will accept anyone of any orientation. The Boy and Girl Scouts of America will not be one of them.
DGS [TotalFark]
2012-07-25 11:42:15 AM  
1 votes:

chewd: Scouts have been a deeply christian organization at least since i was a kid (late 70's)

I remember the scout leader sitting us all down & saying something along the lines of "i know you boys come here just to have fun & play games with your friends, but we are also here to glorify jesus. If you dont love jesus, dont come back."

I was horrified... and never went to another scout meeting.

I also never contribute to scouts... my kids arent in the scouts.

Screw the jesus scouts.

I hear the girl scouts arent as church-oriented though. so i do still buy their cookies.


Things like this never came up in my pack. Ever. In fact, I got to hear more religion at my high school soccer games when my catholic coach required a prayer before the game to ask for victory. Really. I got more religion in public school in 1 soccer season than 11 combined years of cub scouts and boy scouts that had weekly meetings and monthly camping trips.
2012-07-25 10:06:07 AM  
1 votes:
And yet colleges can promote all their agendas without a chirp of outrage, including banning and cencoring College Republicans if they disagree with liberal ideology.....

Hypocrites, that is all libs are.
2012-07-25 09:19:59 AM  
1 votes:
I am an Eagle Scout. I was Senior Patrol leader from the age of 13 through 17. I volunteered at our local cub packs and soup kitchens as a scout. I was credited with reviving our troop with an influx of members when we almost lost our charter. I organized all merit badge workshops for our patrol. I led all expeditions while camping. I delegated all troop responsibility and ran every meeting. I tried to live my life according to the scout law, as scouting was always a safe haven for me and my friends. I knew that gays were not allowed in scouts, but I never knew how unapologetically bigoted the motivations were. I am very proud of the years of work I put in to become an Eagle Scout. I am no longer proud of the organization that bestows that honor. The Boy Scouts of America would have us believe that homosexuals are immoral, predatory degenerates, I tend not to agree. I don't think my boyfriend would either.
2012-07-25 08:45:18 AM  
1 votes:
Hey I've got an idea, If you feel that the Scouts are wrong and still think that they have a good program why don't you join as an adult leader or start a new pack/troop? Change it from the inside. Or if thats not good enough you could start a new youth organization in you area that has the rules set the way you want them. In other words, If you don't like it do something to change it. The youth of today need something other than video games and TVs in their lives. They need to get outside more and explore nature. Go make a difference in some child's life and show them that there is more to life than the digital realm. As for values, everyone has a different set and you are sure to step on someones toes. I like the fact that in my son's troop they allow the kids to lose with dignity. Sometimes if you don't work hard enough for something you don't get a ribbon or trophy but you will get praise for trying and help on improving your performance. Personally, allof the adult leaders and even the paid scouters I know have a DADT attitude.

In the end It is all about helping boys to grow up to be responsible men and to have fun along the way.
2012-07-25 08:38:35 AM  
1 votes:

BKITU: BronyMedic: serial_crusher: Ideally I'd like to change the BSA from within, but realistically I haven't been that active in my adult years.

Good luck with that. The structure of the BSA is that of an organization which not only condones religious fundamentalism, but actively works to encourage it. Local member organizations are given a blank slate to run out those who are not religious - Atheists and Agnostics - and it's a rather uncomfortable position for anyone who is NOT a Christian theist due to their close ties with local churches. On the surface, the BSA tries to appear all inclusive and tolerant, but once you're in, the reality is quite different.

Plenty of Jewish scouts out there. I didn't grow up in an area with a significant Muslim community so I don't think there were any in my troop, but I remember enough from my various handbooks to know they would have been welcome.

There might be an Abrahamic preference, but I believe members of other, non-Abrahamic faiths would have been welcome as well (I'm not so certain of this as for Abrahamic theists, but fairly sure).


My troop had Jews, Hindus, atheists, agnostics and even homosexuals. Really, regardless of the national rules, each troop is only as cooky as the local Scoutmaster (or the local church that pulls his strings) wants to be. I don't think my troop got a lot from our church other than a room to hold meetings in, but even if they were giving us oodles and oodles of money, they wouldn't have cared.
I guess if the gay kid in my troop had been outspoken about it, somebody higher up might have take notice, but it always seemed like there were several levels of rational people you had to go through before you found a crackpot.
2012-07-25 07:31:59 AM  
1 votes:

WeenerGord: Pick up a tell all book, read a news story. Did you read upthread where bigstoopidbruce mentioned Jesse Dirkhising? why don't you search that name and read the horrible thing that happened to that poor kid.


I don't know if you know this, but "tell-all books" and news stories about individuals are very, VERY poor sources of information, especially about a large, generalized group of people. Your opinion of what gay people are like is informed by things like one specific horrendous murder case -- and you actually think this is a good reflection of any significant portion of the homosexual population?? My god is that stupid. I mean, do you look at a story like the Hillside Stranger, or Ted Bundy, and think "Man, I'd better keep my kids away from white males!" They have some pretty horrific stories too -- but do you imagine that they're somehow representative of some significant portion of white males? If not, why are you treating homosexuals differently?
2012-07-25 06:47:34 AM  
1 votes:
Eh....

I don't see a problem with the BSA. None at all.

It's a social club that is designed to instil certain values into it's members. You may or you may not agree with those values. If you don't agree - you probably shouldn't join. The Boy Scouts of America are not trying to include everyone. They don't want everyone. They want to preach what they believe. And that's what they do.

They don't want girls.
They don't atheists.
They don't want gays.

And to me - that's just fine. In fact, it strikes me as no different than many popular religions who also have different roles assigned by gender, requires believe in a God or Gods and also doesn't want gays and/or has particular views about sexual behaviour.

If you believe in gender equality/neutrality - Don't join or support BSA.
If you believe that atheism is correct or more beneficial for children - Don't join or support BSA.
If you believe that being gay is as good or better than being straight - Don't join or support BSA.

But if you believe in the values that BSA believes in - then join up.
2012-07-25 06:33:48 AM  
1 votes:
The official policy of the BSA is that being gay or being atheist (or both) is dishonorable.

Even the US military no longer officially has that policy.
2012-07-25 04:44:39 AM  
1 votes:
I was a cub scout as a kid, we met at a local public elementary school. There was nothing religious about it. We went camping, volunteered at charities and soup kitchens, had fun activities like soap box races, got badges... nobody cared what your skin color was or anything. Some of you people who support this bigotry are just sick individuals. Gays are the last group of people where the majority can hate and discriminate against them. I know it sucks society has taken away everything else. Now black or brown can do anything they want. But everyone unites on hating the homosexuals! What year is it? 2012? I don't believe it. Shameful really.
2012-07-25 04:37:48 AM  
1 votes:

Aussie_As: Jesus preached tolerance and love.



Don't ever go there. You'll blow the mind of the conservative Christians. They cannot accept this fact
2012-07-25 04:28:32 AM  
1 votes:
Do gay pedos openly discuss their sexual preference? I would of presumed they are still in the closet or do they presume that all gay mean by default are pedos? Either way whoever made this rule is a little bit simple minded.
2012-07-25 04:21:07 AM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: StreetlightInTheGhetto: And if the Boy Scouts have policies where a adult is alone with a child then they have bigger things to worry about than openly gay people.

This.


You know, if this policy were about taking boys into the woods, wouldn't it make sense if the ONLY people allowed to be scout leaders were lesbians? I mean, gay men and straight women are attracted to males. And straight men could be lying about their attraction to males to avoid the stigma of being known to be gay. A lesbian is unlikely to be secretly dreaming about 14-year-old boys, amiright?

Oh, except that CHILD MOLESTATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GAY OR STRAIGHT SEXUAL ORIENTATION, YOU @#$^#^!s!!!
2012-07-25 03:20:13 AM  
1 votes:

Skywolf Philosopher: Eh, I don't think homosexuality is right myself, but I do advocate free will.


There is nothing to be "right" or "wrong" with homosexuality. It is what it is, a state of being.
2012-07-25 03:07:50 AM  
1 votes:

Sabyen91: ununcle: WeenerGord: Sabyen91: straight pedos like Sandusky.

Sandusky was not straight.

He was a boy loving heterosexual. Haven't you takin sex ed 101?

Yes, he was.


How is that possible?
2012-07-25 03:07:15 AM  
1 votes:

Sabyen91: He is still straight.


You know what, you're right. You're 100% right. Allow me to retract and restate:

He acted out against boys, but no one had any idea because he's straight. No one knew he had this... sickness?... until it was WAY too late.

If you ask me, guys like him are more of a threat than any openly gay man.
2012-07-25 03:06:04 AM  
1 votes:

Sabyen91: WeenerGord: Sabyen91: straight pedos like Sandusky.

Sandusky was not straight.

Yes he is.


In what world?
2012-07-25 03:01:23 AM  
1 votes:

Sabyen91: straight pedos like Sandusky.


Sandusky was not straight.
2012-07-25 02:58:05 AM  
1 votes:

randomjsa: So if for personal or political reasons individuals reject organizations to which they used to belong, it's significant?


When the reason is just and the rejection is meaningful, yes. Whether this qualifies is a personal decision.

Because back when people were shredding their AARP cards and sending them back it was just a few people being 'petty' and 'stupid' and 'it didn't really matter'.

You're comparing a denouncement of bigotry and hatred with policy wankery? Really? Well, if that's how you personally decide it. . . .

I was in the Boy Scouts as a kid, and over the years as an adult I've briefly encountered the Scouts again for short periods of time. What gets me about their flat out rejection of homosexuals being members is that they try to play up the Scouts as a bunch of good little Christian kids. All of my experience with them, kid or adult, has been that they were not quite juvenile delinquents and could only just be wrangled in to the actual Scout thing.

I've known plenty of Scouts over the years. Some of them were upstanding types, and some of them were not. The latter typically didn't make Eagle.

The funny thing is that at least some of the original "Scout Law" would seem to be highly agreeable to every liberal who isn't of the elitist type (IE, Obama type) as it encourages Scouts to disregard the concept of social class and rich/poor and to help people regardless, don't be a snob basically.

I . . . really have trouble following the worthwhile parts of your posts sometimes. In this case, I ignore your reflexive attempt at derailing the discussion into another "Obamfart is elitist!" discussion.

The reason there is such an outcry from liberals--strike that; from anybody who takes offense at bigotry--about this is exactly because the BSA is considered--to the point of being a cliché--to be a model organization, and would be so if only it didn't have those little bits of bigotry stapled to it. Nobody cares about Westboro Baptist being bigots--there's nothing worth redeeming there. They aren't tragic; they're just scum. The Boy Scouts of America situation is tragic, a classic case of an otherwise good thing tainted by unnecessary evil. It's like watching Mister Rogers for years, but every so often he says "we're all special, except for the japs."
2012-07-25 02:54:36 AM  
1 votes:

WeenerGord: Are you are serious? Do you actually know anything about gays? Maybe you should do some reading. Very many gays are into power play, abuse, S&M. B&D, the list is endless. Pick up a tell all book, read a news story. Did you read upthread where bigstoopidbruce mentioned Jesse Dirkhising? why don't you search that name and read the horrible thing that happened to that poor kid. Do you know about bug chasers, gays who try to catch AIDS to prove how gay they are? If you were gay and cared about other gays, why would you wish that on them?

And I'm a bad person for agreeing that the BSA can keep out the openly gay if they want to? Fark all ya'll who don't care if kids might be harmed just because YOU want to boast about how cool and open and non-bigoted you are. Maybe when you grow up you will learn better sense.


oh, so you you're a bigot? sorry that your kids will be raise by a bigoted asshole. maybe they'll get over it. here's to hoping they aren't gay because you'll make their lives hell...
2012-07-25 02:39:49 AM  
1 votes:

jimk777: I didn't bring up Sandusky. I only jumped in because I found it funny how the activist types were trying to avoid at all costs considering him gay....


because he's not gay or straight. he's a pedo. they are kiddy-diddlers. that's all...
2012-07-25 02:29:06 AM  
1 votes:

gadian: uatuba: I'm an Eagle Scout, and I'll return my medal and patch if and when the BSA ever decides to forgo its principles as a private, voluntary organization in favor of political correctness based on choices made by a particular group of people. So for now, I'll be keeping them.

It gets federal funding. It's not really a private organization, is it?


Other than the fact that the BSA doesn't get federal funding, I guess you're right. The BSA gets to use facilities that are federally funded. I guess now that any private organizations who use the interstate highway system must relinquish their principles, because they're not really private any more, right?

Keep in mind, an LGBT event was held at the freaking Pentagon. That doesn't mean the event was federally funded, it simply means that the event was held at a federally funded facility. But if that's your hang up, I'm perfectly ok with the BSA no longer holding its jamborees at Fort AP Hill.
2012-07-25 02:14:33 AM  
1 votes:
I didn't need the scouts to teach me how to camp, start fires, fish, swim, be a good citizen, help my neighbor, be prepared or any of their other scout sayings.

I had a Dad.... that and I thought the Scouts were stupid, and gay.

My Dad did not teach me to like or dislike groups of people but rather an individual for their actions.

I may not personally like that Jack is Gay... but Jack is one hell of a mechanic so I can see past what I see is a personal choice I do not agree with and pay Jack to work on my truck. But that does not mean that I agree that Jack should not be a Scout leader. If Jack is a good Scout leader and can leave his personal life out of Scouts then sure. But Jack is not going to bring his "friend" to Scouting events. Jack must teach about Scouting and Scouting alone. If he can't do that then Jack can not be a scout leader... Same goes for straight Scout leaders or any adult who mentors children. I had a baseball coach who used to tell us about how he'd come home to his wife screwing the neighbor or some random guy before practices and games. We were 13... we didn't need to hear that or care.

We as a society have become far too personal. We know entirely too much about each other now. The less I know about people the more I like them.

Think about it... 40 years ago people pissed and moaned about someone reading their diary, their inner most thoughts. NOW... people piss and moan about nobody reading their blog.... their inner most thoughts.
2012-07-25 02:08:21 AM  
1 votes:

Slives: I greatly enjoyed Scouting as a kid and would like to get my son into it next year. I really hope I can find a troop that at least takes a neutral position on this. Been trying very hard to not teach him any bigotry and I sure don't need it coming from an organization I am encouraging him to join.


There are non-discriminatory troops. I used to work with a woman who's son was a scout, and when she would beg for money she would always highlight that his was a non-discriminatory troop. Nice lady. Nice kid.
2012-07-25 02:05:16 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: spamdog: I know you're already copping a lot of heat in this thread, but I wanted to know if there's any real scientific backing for this. I always thought this was a bit of popular wisdom that isn't actually true.

UC Davis Psych department has a rather long dissertation on the topic.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

There are some within the psychology community that argue pedophilia should garner it's own label as a sexual orientation, rather than being treated as a separate paraphilia independant of sexual orientation. The reason for this is that it doesn't fit under any of the currently established criteria for heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality. Pedophilic attraction is unique - each person who suffers from it is attracted to a specific age range, and a specific sex of child. Even then, their adult sexual attractions can be completely different. There are many pedophiles who target boys who identify as straight, for example.

This is not to justify it as a legitimate and harmless sexual orientation, but rather to simplify the classification of it, and it should be noted that it is completely different than traditional sexual orientation, which involves relationships between two or more consenting teenage or of-age parties.


Yeah. You know the problem with that is the key phrase "some withing the psychology community." Leaving aside the news that it is a community versus some psychologists or some researchers the problem is that in any given year there are some within the psychological "community" that believe any number of things that next year or next decade are determined to be complete crap. I wouldn't be surprised if there are "some" somewhere that still think Freud was right just as there are "some" people who think the world is literally flat. Nothing makes any of those statements particularly relevant beyond the fact that "some" people are also all the time coming up with great ideas while stoned.
2012-07-25 02:04:08 AM  
1 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: And if the Boy Scouts have policies where a adult is alone with a child then they have bigger things to worry about than openly gay people.


This.
2012-07-25 02:01:08 AM  
1 votes:

ununcle: A Fark Handle: ununcle: As a heterosexual male, could I coach the local high school cheer leading team? You bet your ass I could. I would be the best freakin high school cheer leading team coach there ever was.

turns out you can and could because no national cheer organization is banning you.

Can I take them in the woods? This conversation proves there's an agenda.


can you take your daughter's/son's cheer/soccer/basketball/baseball/softball team across state lines to a regional tournament? yes. can you stay in the same hotel as that whole team? yes. does that prove there's an agenda?

/why are the woods so scary in your eyes?
2012-07-25 02:00:11 AM  
1 votes:
Bigotry is as bad as it gets. This is a really simple situation. If you promote or allow bigotry, you're a farking idiot. If you don't, congrats, whatever your flaws, you're at least not THAT stupid.
2012-07-25 01:56:57 AM  
1 votes:

Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods .... other uninformed, blatantly homophobic bullshiat follows, ad infinitum


The simple truth is that the vast majority of pedophiles self-identify as heterosexual, you stupid nonce!!
2012-07-25 01:48:27 AM  
1 votes:

Simonsezz: Don't know if it's been pointed out yet...

One word on BSOA..

Webelo


Webelos. Singular same as plural. It's an acronym.
2012-07-25 01:47:38 AM  
1 votes:
I'm just a bigoted redneck heterosexual male, so maybe I'm a little slow. Bear with me.

So any man who rapes boys is a pedophile but IS NOT GAY? Is that right?

While any man who rapes girls is, what, not straight?

I wonder if Jesse Dirkhising would like to be an Eagle Scout? Oh, wait, he's busy being dead after being repeatedly anally raped and then asphixiated by two men who, I'm sure, were NOT GAY.

Nobody is saying that every gay man is going to go after little boys and teen males. But that doesn't mean they need to sleep in the woods with them and be their role models. Ditto with "gay" teens, although how you'd tell a gay teen from any other confused horny teen I have no idea.

If you REALLY think that gay men should be leaders in Scouts, then you are either completely dishonest or just plain stupid. Dumb as a freaking post.
2012-07-25 01:46:55 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: We know that sexual assault and instances of molestation and sexual abuse by women are not only vastly under-reported, but that there is an active culture in society which makes this an acceptable thing if the victim is an adolescent boy.


Hence, every teacher molestation thread ever where the linked article includes a mugshot also tends to have commentary from subby on whether or not you would hit it.
2012-07-25 01:45:06 AM  
1 votes:
Don't know if it's been pointed out yet...

One word on BSOA..

Webelo
2012-07-25 01:28:32 AM  
1 votes:
Here's a group that only exists to do good deeds and people attack them because of one of their private beliefs. Unbelievable. Yeah let's attack the ahoy Scouts. Great idea.
2012-07-25 01:28:28 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: spamdog: I know you're already copping a lot of heat in this thread, but I wanted to know if there's any real scientific backing for this. I always thought this was a bit of popular wisdom that isn't actually true.

UC Davis Psych department has a rather long dissertation on the topic.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

There are some within the psychology community that argue pedophilia should garner it's own label as a sexual orientation, rather than being treated as a separate paraphilia independant of sexual orientation. The reason for this is that it doesn't fit under any of the currently established criteria for heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality. Pedophilic attraction is unique - each person who suffers from it is attracted to a specific age range, and a specific sex of child. Even then, their adult sexual attractions can be completely different. There are many pedophiles who target boys who identify as straight, for example.

This is not to justify it as a legitimate and harmless sexual orientation, but rather to simplify the classification of it, and it should be noted that it is completely different than traditional sexual orientation, which involves relationships between two or more consenting teenage or of-age parties.


exactly. pedos are their own very farked up and sick group that has nothing to do with what most people understand as sexuality. gay scoutmasters aren't the issue. pedo scoutmaster would be...
2012-07-25 01:21:58 AM  
1 votes:

ununcle: Baloo Uriza: Pumpernickel bread: Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness.

Two words you might want to look up in the dictionary: "homosexual" and "pedophile." Please note the distinction. Two names you might want to google: "James Dale" and "Jerry Sandusky." Please note the difference between these two individuals.

2 words you may wanna look up, appropriate and inappropriate. For thousands of years men (hetero) have not been able (legaly) to go out into the woods to teach a group of young girls how to rub sticks together to make heat. Therefore, it will never be appropriate for a gay man to go into said woods to teach young men the facts of life. No matter how much you wish it, it ain't happening. Are you gatting me sweetheart?


What's wrong with this? A gay man/woman is just as capable of having a "birds and bees" conversation with their kids (sorry if that came as a shock, but gay people DO have kids) as any other adult.

Man these threads make me depressed. I hope most of the ignorant posters are just trolls but I know in reality there's a lot of closed minded people out there. It's just so sad.
2012-07-25 01:21:25 AM  
1 votes:

DempseySR26: Funny the people here calling the scouts bigots are bigots against Christians. Hypocrites.


Hypocritical Bigoted Christians you mean.

www.chicagonow.com
2012-07-25 01:18:02 AM  
1 votes:
Pedophilia isn't often tied with gender. Sure, you have people who are into "types" but even those types aren't cemented to gender. Little boys are very similar to little girls, if prepubescent is what you're into.
2012-07-25 01:07:04 AM  
1 votes:
ununcle: Ha! Is that what the gay community believes? Sandusky was a hetero guy giving gays a bad name. OMG!!! Your farked. Wow.

I hate to break into your tirade, but you do realize that pedophilia is considered, as a matter of both psychiatric study, and pathological basis, completely a separate concept from sexual orientation, right?

There are gay, and there are straight pedophiles. The pedophilic attraction in an offender transcends their sexual orientation, and is based on the age and physical maturity of that particular person's attraction range. Someone who is completely straight can be attracted to the androgynous picture of a three year old boy, and someone who is flamingly gay can be attracted to a nine year old girl.

DempseySR26: Funny all I read was derpy derpy dooo.Funny, all I wrote was derp. Thank you for translating it for the rest of FARK.

FTFY.
2012-07-25 01:00:51 AM  
1 votes:

Biological Ali: jimk777: Sandusky is a gay or bi pedophile.

Careful... your bigotry is showing.


Yeah, it's amazing to me how some people will on the one hand argue that gays are just normal people yet not accept that means that some are not good people either. I find it hilarious how gays or gay rights activists try to do anything to avoid the obvious point that Sandusky is either gay or bi. Yes he by definition is but so what? I just enjoy calling the activist types on their hypocrisy.

Just because of percentage of the population I assume there are plenty more straight pedophiles who go after little girls but Sandusky didn't go after girls. That doesn't have anything to do with how most gay males would behave but also the fact that there are plenty of straight pedophiles doesn't mean most men would wish to have sex with young girls yet I strongly suspect the girl scouts would not just allow a male to take a bunch of teenage girls into the woods. Really all it means though is not that gays can't be scoutmasters but that boy scouts have similar rules about multiple leaders and so on if in fact hey already do not. Probably best anyway since no matter what boy scouts do they're not going to drive out all the closeted gay or bi pedophiles since there will always be the ones such as Sandusky that almost no one knows about.
2012-07-25 01:00:18 AM  
1 votes:

golem222: I am getting so sick and tired of the gay community telling people what they should and should not believe as well as think. Being gay is not a normal behavior no matter how much you try to tell me it is. Furthermore there is no reason on earth that will make me think being gay is "ok". Keep the homo out of scouts, for god sakes the organization is gay enough without having actual gays running it.


Now that's how you troll.
2012-07-25 12:59:34 AM  
1 votes:
DempseySR26: I don't see how Christians are making holding back any gay person from sticking his manhood in a place where another man evacuates his bowels. All they are saying is what they believe. They aren't keeping gay people from doing anything. Want to get married? Get religion because it's a religious ritual. Then go find a priest, preacher, rabbi, imam, wiccan, tree, cow or whatever and just say your vowels. Leave other people alone. It's not cute.I'm a complete and utter idiot who cannot/will not understand the difference between the physical act of intercourse, and sexual orientation, and I cannot comprehend and/or accept that marriage is an invariably secular institution in the United States, with significance for certain religions who would like for us to forget the secular part..

Fixed that for you. It's an understandable mistake.
2012-07-25 12:57:28 AM  
1 votes:
I am getting so sick and tired of the gay community telling people what they should and should not believe as well as think. Being gay is not a normal behavior no matter how much you try to tell me it is. Furthermore there is no reason on earth that will make me think being gay is "ok". Keep the homo out of scouts, for god sakes the organization is gay enough without having actual gays running it.
2012-07-25 12:54:21 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: inborn characteristics


Stop this. I know you mean well, but we shouldn't discriminate on any irrelevant basis, regardless of whether the condition originated at your birth. While framing sexual orientation as an anti-birthright issue makes the propaganda easier (due to a general acceptance of anti-birthright sentiments the same segments of the population that oppose equality for homosexuals) it's not really the right battle to fight -- you (presumably) wouldn't treat a armless man differently whether he lost his arms before birth or at 8 or at 48, so why does it make any difference whether or not people are "born gay"?
2012-07-25 12:52:10 AM  
1 votes:

RadioAaron: DempseySR26: Funny the people here calling the scouts bigots are bigots against Christians. Hypocrites.

Poor persecuted Christians. Rejecting equality in the name of Jesus since 0.


Technically, the Christian ministry didn't pick up steam until about 36 A.D. - the figure you're referring to, assuming he's not apocryphal, was probably born about 3 A.D.

/yeah I know what you're going for
//but but but technically.....
2012-07-25 12:44:46 AM  
1 votes:

ununcle: Dimensio: Then either you or Pumpernickel bread should be able to demonstrate that problems result from the British "Scout Association" due to that organization's failure to prohibit membership of homosexual individuals. Please do so.

I don't know what you mean.


The British "Boy Scouts of America" analog organization, "The Scouting Association", does not prohibit homosexuals from serving as members. If your concerns are valid, then you should be able to cite data from that British organization as supporting evidence.
2012-07-25 12:43:33 AM  
1 votes:
DempseySR26: Funny the people here calling the scouts bigots are bigots against Christians. Hypocrites.

I don't care if you're Christian, Islamic, Jewish, or worship Celestia herself.

Your beliefs don't give you a blank check to actively and unquestioningly exclude or discriminate against anyone for inborn characteristics - be it race, sexual orientation, or ethnic origin. And it's not intolerance to speak out against anyone who would publically hide behind their percieved righteousness and holiness to spout out such nonsense.
2012-07-25 12:41:44 AM  
1 votes:

captcaveman: Dimensio: captcaveman: What a dumb bunch of morons, like returning your worthless medal will do a damn thing to change a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION that you voluntarily joined and voluntarily fought to earn a piece of metal that you don't need to be successful. You failed to read the fine print of a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION. That means they can do what they want and don't have to give a shiate about your farking opinion while still supporting it. So EAGLE scouts that are so offended by a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION that is upholding its own policies, nothing you do with your medal is going to change that. There is nothing against the law about being a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION with your own laws and standards. If you don't want to be a boy scout, don't. If you are gay male and you want to be a boy scout, you can't. That is not against the law or bigotry in any way. Create the LBGT scouts if you want to. Nothing is stopping you.

The Boy Scouts of America's policy of prohibiting membership by homosexuals is, in fact, "bigotry". Your claim, therefore is a lie.

Its still a private organization. Your argument is invalid.


Actually, its not.
2012-07-25 12:40:34 AM  
1 votes:

phrawgh: Slives: I greatly enjoyed Scouting as a kid and would like to get my son into it next year. I really hope I can find a troop that at least takes a neutral position on this. Been trying very hard to not teach him any bigotry and I sure don't need it coming from an organization I am encouraging him to join.

Good for you. I assuming he doesn't attend church either. Letting him wait until after the age of consent to choose a religion is the right way to go. Kudos!


you don't think it might be bigotry of your own to categorically state that all churches espouse bigotry?
2012-07-25 12:38:59 AM  
1 votes:

jimk777: heap: jimk777: Okay so he's bi. Either that or closeted for 45 years which sounds a lot more likely.

or maybe he's a goddamned pedophile.

I haven't read anything about Sandusky having sex with little girls. This probably is too difficult a concept for you to handle but age has nothing to do with gender. Sandusky is a gay or bi pedophile. Pedophilia is simply the form of sex he wants not the gender he wants it with.


Pedophilia, like rape, is non-consensual. It's not about sex. It's about violation and power. Mixing it up with a regular discussion about homosexuality is simply offensive to all non-pedophiles and non-rapists, because what you say about gay men and boys would by definition apply to straight men and girls.
2012-07-25 12:38:18 AM  
1 votes:

Skywolf Philosopher: I don't think homosexuality is right myself



It's right if you're a homosexual.
2012-07-25 12:31:57 AM  
1 votes:

kingmust64: Hence the now bolded NAACP crack, dude. Good for the goose is NOT good for the gander?


Probably be funnier if there weren't, you know, many hundreds of white members of the NAACP, and I didn't know more than one personally...
2012-07-25 12:31:03 AM  
1 votes:

heap: jimk777: Okay so he's bi. Either that or closeted for 45 years which sounds a lot more likely.

or maybe he's a goddamned pedophile.


I haven't read anything about Sandusky having sex with little girls. This probably is too difficult a concept for you to handle but age has nothing to do with gender. Sandusky is a gay or bi pedophile. Pedophilia is simply the form of sex he wants not the gender he wants it with.
2012-07-25 12:27:02 AM  
1 votes:

Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.


You do know that being gay doesn't mean you're a pedophile, right? Or a sexual predator? Or a rapist?
2012-07-25 12:24:10 AM  
1 votes:
What a dumb bunch of morons, like returning your worthless medal will do a damn thing to change a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION that you voluntarily joined and voluntarily fought to earn a piece of metal that you don't need to be successful. You failed to read the fine print of a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION. That means they can do what they want and don't have to give a shiate about your farking opinion while still supporting it. So EAGLE scouts that are so offended by a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION that is upholding its own policies, nothing you do with your medal is going to change that. There is nothing against the law about being a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION with your own laws and standards. If you don't want to be a boy scout, don't. If you are gay male and you want to be a boy scout, you can't. That is not against the law or bigotry in any way. Create the LBGT scouts if you want to. Nothing is stopping you.
2012-07-25 12:23:20 AM  
1 votes:

jimk777: Okay so he's bi. Either that or closeted for 45 years which sounds a lot more likely.


or maybe he's a goddamned pedophile.
2012-07-25 12:22:09 AM  
1 votes:

Dimensio: No possible rational nor honest interpretation of BronyMedic's statement could allow for the conclusion that you have speculated. Did you ask such a question because you are irrational, or did you ask it because you are dishonest?


Dude, look at his username. It's not subtle.

If somebody is posting purely for the purpose of negative attention, just don't give them any. Or if you must reply, reply with something scathingly clever that turns their trolling against them.

Right now he's checking and rechecking the thread to see if people are taking him seriously, and your post just made him happier. Knock it off.
2012-07-25 12:21:54 AM  
1 votes:
Here's my Scouting experience: Became a Cub Scout at nine, a Boy Scout at twelve. My Scoutmaster's son took three years to make Eagle, and when he did, Daddy Scoutmaster disbanded the troop, with with only a few months before I'd have made Eagle. Sure, I was Scribe, Quartermaster and Senior Assistant Scoutmaster, but feeling cheated out of making Eagle sometimes gives me pangs even today, fifty years later.
2012-07-25 12:19:27 AM  
1 votes:

ununcle: Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.

This,,
My daughter has a passion for photography/wedding planner/ have fun , and her first wedding was a gay one. She asked if I had a problem with that and I said no. I have no problem with gay people. I only have a problem with the "agenda' that wants to flip sexuality upside down where it's supposed to be appropriate for a gay man to be surrounded by teen boys in the middle of the woods, yet considered lunacy for a hetero male to be surrounded by teen girls in the woods. Neither one is appropriate. She understood.


Then either you or Pumpernickel bread should be able to demonstrate that problems result from the British "Scout Association" due to that organization's failure to prohibit membership of homosexual individuals. Please do so.
2012-07-25 12:18:21 AM  
1 votes:

CuttySupreme: I'm sick and tired of all this whining. Don't join Boy Scouts then, go start queer scouts or something.


This isn't about whether or not we can join or not. See, I am 1) Straight, 2) Too old for the scouts, and 3) Wasn't interested in them even when I was a kid.

My beef is that they are using -our- money and -our- resources to do -their- bigoted fundy thing.
Got why I have a beef now?
2012-07-25 12:17:25 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: think you're missing the point here.

As a private organization with no federal funding, the Scouts are free to do and say what they want.


as a 'private organization' that does receive federal funding, this middle ground between private and public hinging on the convenience of the stance at hand is a goddamned joke.
2012-07-25 12:15:01 AM  
1 votes:
kingmust64: I AM an Eagle Scout, and this is stupid. It's not like this is a new stance for the Scouts. These Eagle Scouts knew(or should have known) this was policy when they got their medals, and now they turn them back in? What's the point? It would make sense if it was a reversal of ideals, but it's not. Same with the Chick-Fil-A thing. Besides, what does it matter? Chick-Fil-A makes food, not pointy things to skewer gay people, their thoughts about homosexuality, or quantum physics, or is the sky really blue does not affect that. Same with the scouts. They teach real world problem solving, survival skills, integrity, and yes some religion....but who cares, they get the boys away from the TV for a little bit and make them that much better. It's not like (I will preface this with a huge MOST) they are teaching kids that "gay are bad, mmkay", they just, as a private club, decided not to allow openly gay members and leaders. Narrow line, but there it is.

I think you're missing the point here.

As a private organization with no federal funding, the Scouts are free to do and say what they want. Just like the Klan, The Aryan Nation, and the Nation of Islam are free to say and do what they want.

And, as individuals, we have the right to stand up for what we believe in, and criticise the scouts for the position they have taken. Just because they are a private group, does not give them a free pass for what they do that is discriminatory and bigoted. They deserve to be called out on that.

The reason it matters is because the push a belief that someone is flawed and evil, and worthy of being excluded from something, simply because of a trait they had no control over, and does not define who they are any more than your heterosexuality defines you. That's the tantamount issue here. They are teaching these kids and teenagers to hate someone for their sexual orientation, not the character of their being.
2012-07-25 12:14:28 AM  
1 votes:
again, i didn't last too long in scouts, so maybe my experience isn't the norm

were all of you being taken out in the woods with one single solitary adult in charge of your activities?

there were always at least 3 parents, including mothers (complete with mommy parts) involved in herding our retarded little asses around, whether it was camping or any other activity.

do gay people emit 'solitarium' from their pores that somehow changes this situation to where they're able to corral 30 9 year olds in the wilderness themselves, so they may properly roger them?
2012-07-25 12:13:17 AM  
1 votes:

Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.


You have posted this exact comment in a previous discussion. It is no less intellectually dishonest then than it was when you initially posted it.
2012-07-25 12:09:44 AM  
1 votes:

Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.


This,,
My daughter has a passion for photography/wedding planner/ have fun , and her first wedding was a gay one. She asked if I had a problem with that and I said no. I have no problem with gay people. I only have a problem with the "agenda' that wants to flip sexuality upside down where it's supposed to be appropriate for a gay man to be surrounded by teen boys in the middle of the woods, yet considered lunacy for a hetero male to be surrounded by teen girls in the woods. Neither one is appropriate. She understood.
2012-07-25 12:08:52 AM  
1 votes:
I'd say give it a few years. Right now the BSA has their hands full trying to get rid of all the grown men who like boys, so now may not be the best time to also invite in boys and adolescents who like boys. One problem at a time, I guess.
2012-07-25 12:05:02 AM  
1 votes:
Clearly a lot of ethnic or religious groups have been beaten, bullied and killed much more than gays have so why the big deal? Why are gays suddenly such a special cause? It's like the latest fad cause. Save the children, save the cheerleader, save the gays.
2012-07-24 11:59:46 PM  
1 votes:
Saying pro-heterosexual is like saying pro-life. Being pro-homosexual rights is not being anti-heterosexual. Hetero's lose nothing by allowing civil rights to gays.
2012-07-24 11:59:42 PM  
1 votes:

Pumpernickel bread: Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness.


So all gay men are predators. Got it.
2012-07-24 11:56:41 PM  
1 votes:

ununcle: I'm a live and let live person. I honestly could give a fark if someone likes the cack or the crack. But, for the life of me, I'll never understand why a parent should think it's appropriate to send a teen boy or younger into the woods with a stranger/gay man.


You obviously haven't seen the South Park episode about Big Gay Al getting kicked out of his scout leader position.
2012-07-24 11:53:59 PM  
1 votes:
Now with linky link: http://boingboing.net/2012/07/23/eagle-scouts-stand-up-to-the-b.html

/Why no hero tag on this thread? There should be a hero tag for each and every one of these guys that sends eagle back to those bigots.
2012-07-24 11:53:26 PM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: The more you eat the more you fart: Former Eagle Scout. I did this exact thing in protest of a gay boy in my area being tossed out of the Boy Scouts for nothing except being gay.

Wrote a scathing letter to the bsa, and enclosed in the certified-mail box was my Eagle Scout medal, badge, and patch.

Only diff is that i didnt AW about it like this guy is.

The thing is, if you don't make a scene about it, nothing is going to change.

Do you think the BSA actually cares if some kid returns all his badges?

They only care that they are getting bad press. So if you're not giving it to them, they're still farking homosexuals over.


I guess i see the point, but think it means more if something is done independently knowing u arent gonna have news stories about it....and i know of at least 4 other men that were in BSA when i was that have done the same thing.

Less than 2% of scouts earn Eagle. It takes YEARS of work and hundreds of hours of service work, and literally thousands of hours of effort.

Turning in an Eagle Scout medal is giving back something that represents more than a decade of hard work and dedication.
2012-07-24 11:46:08 PM  
1 votes:
Why is this headline. Two sentences?
2012-07-24 11:44:51 PM  
1 votes:
Former Eagle Scout. I did this exact thing in protest of a gay boy in my area being tossed out of the Boy Scouts for nothing except being gay.

Wrote a scathing letter to the bsa, and enclosed in the certified-mail box was my Eagle Scout medal, badge, and patch.

Only diff is that i didnt AW about it like this guy is.
2012-07-24 11:42:11 PM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: serial_crusher: Ideally I'd like to change the BSA from within, but realistically I haven't been that active in my adult years.

Good luck with that. The structure of the BSA is that of an organization which not only condones religious fundamentalism, but actively works to encourage it. Local member organizations are given a blank slate to run out those who are not religious - Atheists and Agnostics - and it's a rather uncomfortable position for anyone who is NOT a Christian due to their close ties with local churches. On the surface, the BSA tries to appear all inclusive and tolerant, but once you're in, the reality is quite different.


It somewhat varies by region. But, in a lot of the country, the LDS has run the show since the early 90s. They've pretty much taken over BSA district/council leadership around here (a not-notably-Mormon part of the country), partially because no one else really cares enough to volunteer, and partially because they have a lot of sons involved per capita.

So, in some ways they've actually toned down the evangelical fundamentalism that was strong was I was a boy in the 80s. If half the leaders are LDS and a third of the boys are, they aren't going to sit for much non-LDS-theology, but also can't really get too LDS-y, either. So, they instead focus more on generally conservative politics (anti-gay, anti-agnostic, 2nd Amendment NRA brochures, etc).
2012-07-24 11:40:55 PM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.


Agreed.

And for the record the Girl Scouts are NOT homophobic jerks.

/camp counselor in college
//directors were married in England
///slept in separate tents while girls were around but wore rings and it was never an issue, especially since NO counselor was allowed to be alone with a girl EVER anyway.
////feel sorry for the Boy Scouts who fought for what was right
2012-07-24 11:39:11 PM  
1 votes:
I would send my eagle scout award back, but I was abused and run out of scouting before I got one.

so.....

that.
2012-07-24 10:55:24 PM  
1 votes:
BKITU: Plenty of Jewish scouts out there. I didn't grow up in an area with a significant Muslim community so I don't think there were any in my troop, but I remember enough from my various handbooks to know they would have been welcome.

Many of the local troops are parternered with protestant churches, or run through them as ministries of that church as well as attached to the BSA.
2012-07-24 10:39:02 PM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: serial_crusher: Ideally I'd like to change the BSA from within, but realistically I haven't been that active in my adult years.

Good luck with that. The structure of the BSA is that of an organization which not only condones religious fundamentalism, but actively works to encourage it. Local member organizations are given a blank slate to run out those who are not religious - Atheists and Agnostics - and it's a rather uncomfortable position for anyone who is NOT a Christian theist due to their close ties with local churches. On the surface, the BSA tries to appear all inclusive and tolerant, but once you're in, the reality is quite different.


Plenty of Jewish scouts out there. I didn't grow up in an area with a significant Muslim community so I don't think there were any in my troop, but I remember enough from my various handbooks to know they would have been welcome.

There might be an Abrahamic preference, but I believe members of other, non-Abrahamic faiths would have been welcome as well (I'm not so certain of this as for Abrahamic theists, but fairly sure).
2012-07-24 10:28:55 PM  
1 votes:
serial_crusher: Ideally I'd like to change the BSA from within, but realistically I haven't been that active in my adult years.

Good luck with that. The structure of the BSA is that of an organization which not only condones religious fundamentalism, but actively works to encourage it. Local member organizations are given a blank slate to run out those who are not religious - Atheists and Agnostics - and it's a rather uncomfortable position for anyone who is NOT a Christian due to their close ties with local churches. On the surface, the BSA tries to appear all inclusive and tolerant, but once you're in, the reality is quite different.
2012-07-24 09:03:20 PM  
1 votes:

Mugato: So uh...do the um, Girl Scouts allow...nothing, nothing.


The Girl Scouts allow LGBTQ members and volunteers, if that's what you're asking.

All couples have to sleep in separate tents, however.
2012-07-24 08:26:17 PM  
1 votes:

BKITU: My best friend is an Eagle Scout. I have no idea whether he will be turning in his medal, but during his promotion ceremony, a sparrow landed on my shoulder and stayed there for a few minutes. This was 20 years ago.

I'm sure it's a sign, but I'm not sure of what.



I hate to break it to you, but it probably means that you have to go to the Ball and wear glass shoes.
Sorry.

i105.photobucket.com


Research wizards throughout the multiverse have tried to stop this, or at least figure out why it happens, but they're stumped.
2012-07-24 07:52:25 PM  
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Actually, it's more of a pro-bigotry stance, but who's counting?

2012-07-24 07:50:36 PM  
1 votes:
My best friend is an Eagle Scout. I have no idea whether he will be turning in his medal, but during his promotion ceremony, a sparrow landed on my shoulder and stayed there for a few minutes. This was 20 years ago.

I'm sure it's a sign, but I'm not sure of what.
2012-07-24 06:32:49 PM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.


SHMOOTH

Eh, I don't think homosexuality is right myself, but I do advocate free will. Of course, anyone that is for the topic, why would I be with them?

/In other words, I agrees.
 
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