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(Yahoo)   Eagle Scouts return their medals to the Boy Scout of America. Upset over the organization's pro-heterosexual stance   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 655
    More: Misc, Eagle Scout, batty boys, Boy Scouts of America, heterosexuals, molest children, Boing Boing, Christopher Baker  
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13674 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2012 at 11:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-25 12:49:07 PM
Time for Spiral Scouts to expand and take over where Boy Scouts use to be relevant.
To me, they just appear far more American in heart and spirit then Boy Scouts ever have. "SpiralScouts does not discriminate on the basis of religion, gender, sexual preference, ethnicity, race, age, etc. Children and families can be of any religion or no religion at all." - http://www.spiralscouts.org/node/29
 
2012-07-25 01:12:27 PM
I was in Boy Scouts. I was a Life Scout (one step below Eagle) by the age of thirteen, but I lost interest before getting my Eagle. I really wasn't impressed with the organization. I had to put up with quite a bit of harassment, and the leaders thought it was important that we all be macho. Perhaps, it was just my troop, but I doubt it. The Boy Scouts seem to have a variety of deficiencies. I'm sure there are good troops out there, but for me, I became a principled adult despite my time in Boy Scouts.
 
2012-07-25 01:13:58 PM

captcaveman: The Boy Scouts of America's policy of prohibiting membership by homosexuals is, in fact, "bigotry". Your claim, therefore is a lie.

Its still a private organization. Your argument is invalid.

That it is a private organization does not alter the fact of their bigotry. Your claim remains a lie, and you are therefore a liar. Consequently, I am now curious as to why any claim issued by you should be believed.

OK, I'll bite. Because I was a scout and I have no problem with the policy. This is an open forum. I don't have to care about your opinion and you don't have to care about mine. Its called the first amendment. The fact is that private organizations can have their own policy to promote their own way of life.

It is it not bigotry because they are not actively promoting hate.


Bigotry requires no active promotion. The fact that you feel that you need to split hairs on this ought to be a red neon flag flashing in your brain. Failing to include someone solely because they are homosexual is bigotry.

That would be like my all black church going out and saying that we don't want white people in our church.

Yes, that would be bigotry. It would also be bigotry if they excluded a potential congregant simply because they were white, regardless of whether they came out and said so.

They didn't do that, they simply have an idea of what they want to promote as a healthy way of life and they can because its a choice. You don't have to join the boy scouts of America. There are other organizations that will accept anyone of any orientation. The Boy and Girl Scouts of America will not be one of them.

Then they are bigots, and deserve nothing but shame. The Boy Scouts of America are supposed to be the standard bearer for honorable behavior. Instead, they are a disgrace, a blight on American culture. Any Scout who is old enough to understand the situation and does not either follow these folks' example or actively work to change BSA's policy is equally culpable and deserving of scorn.
 
2012-07-25 01:16:57 PM

Baloo Uriza: stupiddream: And? The BSA is a tax exempt charity and that is all. They do not receive Federal or State funding, at least I couldn't find any mention of any doing a GIS asking "What Federal Funding does Boy Scouts receive". Please enlighten me as to the funding they receive.

So, "no." The BSA gets about $11 million/year from the Department of Defense, accounting for 8% of revenue. They also get free (ie, doesn't have to pay any of the fees other organizations do) in state parks in most states and all national parks and forests.


No. You're wrong. This "money from the DoD" is the amount supposedly spent to let the BSA use military installations (primarily Fort AP Hill) for events. The BSA is not given any cash whatsoever by the federal government. And that is in no way reported in the financials for the BSA as revenue, because it isn't revenue.

Try again.
 
2012-07-25 01:20:57 PM
Any educational groups that apply are also allowed to use national forests and parks for free.
 
2012-07-25 01:31:39 PM

uatuba: Baloo Uriza: stupiddream: And? The BSA is a tax exempt charity and that is all. They do not receive Federal or State funding, at least I couldn't find any mention of any doing a GIS asking "What Federal Funding does Boy Scouts receive". Please enlighten me as to the funding they receive.

So, "no." The BSA gets about $11 million/year from the Department of Defense, accounting for 8% of revenue. They also get free (ie, doesn't have to pay any of the fees other organizations do) in state parks in most states and all national parks and forests.

No. You're wrong. This "money from the DoD" is the amount supposedly spent to let the BSA use military installations (primarily Fort AP Hill) for events. The BSA is not given any cash whatsoever by the federal government. And that is in no way reported in the financials for the BSA as revenue, because it isn't revenue.

Try again.


"It doesn't count unless it's cash." That's your argument?

uatuba: Any educational groups that apply are also allowed to use national forests and parks for free.


And if they're bigots as well, then cut them off as well. There is no reason taxes should fund bigotry.
 
2012-07-25 01:38:20 PM

blahpers: uatuba: Baloo Uriza: stupiddream: And? The BSA is a tax exempt charity and that is all. They do not receive Federal or State funding, at least I couldn't find any mention of any doing a GIS asking "What Federal Funding does Boy Scouts receive". Please enlighten me as to the funding they receive.

So, "no." The BSA gets about $11 million/year from the Department of Defense, accounting for 8% of revenue. They also get free (ie, doesn't have to pay any of the fees other organizations do) in state parks in most states and all national parks and forests.

No. You're wrong. This "money from the DoD" is the amount supposedly spent to let the BSA use military installations (primarily Fort AP Hill) for events. The BSA is not given any cash whatsoever by the federal government. And that is in no way reported in the financials for the BSA as revenue, because it isn't revenue.

Try again.

"It doesn't count unless it's cash." That's your argument?

uatuba: Any educational groups that apply are also allowed to use national forests and parks for free.

And if they're bigots as well, then cut them off as well. There is no reason taxes should fund bigotry.


Are you saying that lack of an expense is considered and reported as revenue by...oh
I dunno...anyone? I could get more detailed, like saying that the military benefits from the jamboree at AP Hill moreso than the BSA because they use it for training. The BSA could just as easily host the event elsewhere and it would hardly scratch the bottom line. They were prepared to do so until a federal court correctly ruled that this was all nonsense.

As far as your other comment is concerned, I guess we need to ban the BSA from using the interstate highway system since they're just a bunch of bigots (a word which pisses me off because only recently has its definition included which gender a person chooses to bang).
 
2012-07-25 01:49:30 PM

uatuba: As far as your other comment is concerned, I guess we need to ban the BSA from using the interstate highway system since they're just a bunch of bigots (a word which pisses me off because only recently has its definition included which gender a person chooses to bang).


I suspected for a while now that this semantic quibbling was motivated by something more than a mere enthusiasm for hair-splitting, but I didn't expect it to be confirmed in that emphatic a manner.
 
2012-07-25 01:51:44 PM
"Then they are bigots, and deserve nothing but shame. The Boy Scouts of America are supposed to be the standard bearer for honorable behavior. Instead, they are a disgrace, a blight on American culture. Any Scout who is old enough to understand the situation and does not either follow these folks' example or actively work to change BSA's policy is equally culp ...

Is the rest of the world supposed to understand from you that no group can be formed and exclude others than whom they choose without being scorned? It really doesn't matter what we say to each other about the subject, the Scouts will go on like groups of men only clubs will go on and LBGT people will create their own groups and time will continue flowing. Attempting to bring down the rights of others to choose to your level will lead to nothing more than higher sales of aspirin.
 
2012-07-25 02:00:06 PM
GTFO... Go start your own organization then and let THEM have their culture too. Same thing with Augusta and their Men only rule. Let them be and create your own farking club with your own farking rules.

Forcing others to accept you is not acceptance at all.
 
2012-07-25 02:08:25 PM

crzybtch: Jon iz teh kewl: crzybtch: Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.

I hate to break it to you but the majority of pedophiles are "straight" men!

i didn't realize it was "straight" to have underage sex with CHILDREN. i thought being straight meant you did everything proper.

so in this case they'd be termed "gay". since they're "happy" doing whatever.

I cannot believe that you do not recognise the difference between being gay and being a pedophile! Because you have sex with a CHILD you are a pedophile, regarless of the sex of the child! You need to look up pedophilia, because it is NOT about your sexual orientation. Having sex with a child is wayyyyyy beyond having consentual sex with an adult partner of the same sex. I have lots of gay friends who think pedophiles should go to jail or receive the death penalty just like the rest of my straight friends. To think that a man who rapes children is "gay" is simplistic and naive.


get with the program, stupid
gay = stupid
 
2012-07-25 02:12:41 PM

captcaveman: "Then they are bigots, and deserve nothing but shame. The Boy Scouts of America are supposed to be the standard bearer for honorable behavior. Instead, they are a disgrace, a blight on American culture. Any Scout who is old enough to understand the situation and does not either follow these folks' example or actively work to change BSA's policy is equally culp ...

Is the rest of the world supposed to understand from you that no group can be formed and exclude others than whom they choose without being scorned?


If that exclusion is bigoted in nature, Boldy McMarkupson, then yes.

It really doesn't matter what we say to each other about the subject, the Scouts will go on like groups of men only clubs will go on and LBGT people will create their own groups and time will continue flowing. Attempting to bring down the rights of others to choose to your level will lead to nothing more than higher sales of aspirin.

Your argument is exactly the argument used by the proponents of separate but equal.
 
2012-07-25 02:16:29 PM

Pockafrusta: GTFO... Go start your own organization then and let THEM have their culture too. Same thing with Augusta and their Men only rule. Let them be and create your own farking club with your own farking rules.

Forcing others to accept you is not acceptance at all.


Who's forcing anybody? Nobody is saying "forcibly disband the BSA!" They can exist all they want. Nobody's forcing them to accepts homosexual people. I'm certainly not. But they're assholes and bigots for not doing so, as are their defenders.
 
2012-07-25 03:02:48 PM
This thread has gone full retard. Yikes.
 
2012-07-25 03:36:58 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: crzybtch: Jon iz teh kewl: crzybtch: Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.

I hate to break it to you but the majority of pedophiles are "straight" men!

i didn't realize it was "straight" to have underage sex with CHILDREN. i thought being straight meant you did everything proper.

so in this case they'd be termed "gay". since they're "happy" doing whatever.

I cannot believe that you do not recognise the difference between being gay and being a pedophile! Because you have sex with a CHILD you are a pedophile, regarless of the sex of the child! You need to look up pedophilia, because it is NOT about your sexual orientation. Having sex with a child is wayyyyyy beyond having consentual sex with an adult partner of the same sex. I have lots of gay friends who think pedophiles should go to jail or receive the death penalty just like the rest of my straight friends. To think that a man who rapes children is "gay" is simplistic and naive.

get with the program, stupid
gay = stupid


And if this is the best you can come up with, I am sure your IQ is off the chart. Funny how often haters are ignorant people.
 
2012-07-25 03:44:50 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I was in Boy Scouts. I was a Life Scout (one step below Eagle) by the age of thirteen, but I lost interest before getting my Eagle. I really wasn't impressed with the organization. I had to put up with quite a bit of harassment, and the leaders thought it was important that we all be macho. Perhaps, it was just my troop, but I doubt it. The Boy Scouts seem to have a variety of deficiencies. I'm sure there are good troops out there, but for me, I became a principled adult despite my time in Boy Scouts.


My wife's nephew is a Life Scout and only needs three of four more badges to make Eagle. He's 15. I don't think he'll ever make Eagle. He's just lost interest and, admittedly, he's a bit lazy. He says it just isn't fun anymore and he's just doing it because he's done it so long.

I never was a scout. I was a country boy and my friends and I did all the things they did without all the rules and adults bothering us. I'm sure we had a lot more fun hiking five miles into the woods and setting up a camp from which we would raid a nearby watermelon patch than going out with our dads, who would require everything by the book.
 
2012-07-25 04:04:41 PM

captcaveman: "Then they are bigots, and deserve nothing but shame. The Boy Scouts of America are supposed to be the standard bearer for honorable behavior. Instead, they are a disgrace, a blight on American culture. Any Scout who is old enough to understand the situation and does not either follow these folks' example or actively work to change BSA's policy is equally culp ...

Is the rest of the world supposed to understand from you that no group can be formed and exclude others than whom they choose without being scorned? It really doesn't matter what we say to each other about the subject, the Scouts will go on like groups of men only clubs will go on and LBGT people will create their own groups and time will continue flowing. Attempting to bring down the rights of others to choose to your level will lead to nothing more than higher sales of aspirin.


I am going to type slowly for all the stupid people ...

The BSA can continue with their bigotry ... it is a free country.

We can continue to criticize them for their bigotry.
We can continue to speak out against them.
Eagle scouts can continue to return their medals in protest.
We can continue to refuse to have our children associate with a hateful group.

All because ... it is a free country.

/ you are attempting to silence free speech when you try to silence people speaking out against hate.
 
2012-07-25 04:07:41 PM

JackieRabbit: I never was a scout. I was a country boy and my friends and I did all the things they did without all the rules and adults bothering us. I'm sure we had a lot more fun hiking five miles into the woods and setting up a camp from which we would raid a nearby watermelon patch than going out with our dads, who would require everything by the book.


Depends on the troop. The dads aren't supposed to really do more than sign off on advancement, hold insurance, drive the car and manage the troop's money. Almost everything else is up to the discretion of the senior patrol leader for the troop and patrol leaders in individual patrols. Which has resulted, at least in my troop, in decisions like camping on the Oregon coast in storm season, only to get out there and wreck half the gear in a violent storm, flee 90 miles inland, changing venue mid-trip to a state park group camp in the middle of the weekend.
 
2012-07-25 04:13:07 PM

captcaveman: The Boy Scouts of America's policy of prohibiting membership by homosexuals is, in fact, "bigotry". Your claim, therefore is a lie.

Its still a private organization. Your argument is invalid.

That it is a private organization does not alter the fact of their bigotry. Your claim remains a lie, and you are therefore a liar. Consequently, I am now curious as to why any claim issued by you should be believed.

OK, I'll bite. Because I was a scout and I have no problem with the policy. This is an open forum. I don't have to care about your opinion and you don't have to care about mine. Its called the first amendment. The fact is that private organizations can have their own policy to promote their own way of life.

It is it not bigotry because they are not actively promoting hate. That would be like my all black church going out and saying that we don't want white people in our church.

They didn't do that, they simply have an idea of what they want to promote as a healthy way of life and they can because its a choice. You don't have to join the boy scouts of America. There are other organizations that will accept anyone of any orientation. The Boy and Girl Scouts of America will not be one of them.


Nice try, the Girls Scouts of America does not have a policy against lesbian members:

"As a private organization, Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. respects the values and beliefs of each of its members and does not intrude into personal matters. Therefore, there are no membership policies on sexual preference."
 
2012-07-25 04:21:29 PM
When did Fark turn into the op ed section of The Advocate?
 
2012-07-25 04:25:18 PM

Fano: When did Fark turn into the op ed section of The Advocate?


There are threads on many topics. You may post in the threads that interest you, and you may avoid the threads that do not interest you. You may also post in the threads that do not interest you, but I do not know why you would do so.
 
2012-07-25 04:31:25 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Perhaps, it was just my troop,


It was just your troop. I was active for a long time, and met a lot of scouts and leaders from different troops through the OA. Yeah, some were macho dicks or white trash, but most were great people.

My general rule about scouts is that the higher on the ladder you go, the crappier the organization becomes. The national organization is owned by Mormons and Southern Baptists, with predictable results. The more local you get, the better the people and organizations are.

\Eagle
 
2012-07-25 04:34:27 PM

uatuba: Baloo Uriza: stupiddream: And? The BSA is a tax exempt charity and that is all. They do not receive Federal or State funding, at least I couldn't find any mention of any doing a GIS asking "What Federal Funding does Boy Scouts receive". Please enlighten me as to the funding they receive.

So, "no." The BSA gets about $11 million/year from the Department of Defense, accounting for 8% of revenue. They also get free (ie, doesn't have to pay any of the fees other organizations do) in state parks in most states and all national parks and forests.

No. You're wrong. This "money from the DoD" is the amount supposedly spent to let the BSA use military installations (primarily Fort AP Hill) for events. The BSA is not given any cash whatsoever by the federal government. And that is in no way reported in the financials for the BSA as revenue, because it isn't revenue.

Try again.


Actually, they're currently building a giant ass camp (in West Virginia, IIRC) to host national jamborees- they're moving out of AP Hill. Which is great IMO, AP Hill is hot as hell, or at least it was at the 2005 Jamboree. People dying from the heat hot.
 
2012-07-25 04:35:56 PM

cptjeff: My general rule about scouts is that the higher on the ladder you go, the crappier the organization becomes. The national organization is owned by Mormons and Southern Baptists, with predictable results. The more local you get, the better the people and organizations are.


In general I think you'll find that this is true for all religious organizations. The people near the bottom are trying to do some good ... the higher you get the more it gets all about profit and power.

/pedo priests are the exception to this rule of course.
 
2012-07-25 04:48:21 PM

GAT_00: Mugato: So uh...do the um, Girl Scouts allow...nothing, nothing.

They have a DADT policy.

Also, again, why is this suddenly a thing? BSOA has had this policy for years.


It's not suddenly a thing, it's been an ongoing thing. When I was a cub scout living in a foreign country due to my father's military service, I was puzzled one day when we went to the BX and a woman discouraged us from buying Levi's brand jeans because they supported BSA's anti-gay agenda. Why would gays join the boy scouts, my little boy mind wondered. It made no sense at the time because back then it had been drilled into my head that gays belonged in prison and BSA was top of the line in terms of purity.

That was almost twenty years ago. I now believe people join a meritocracy based on merit. I no longer believe BSA cares about merit.

/now I can go to the levi's home page and see a dude wearing a drab green shirt with bright red pants
//looks like levi's switched teams, so why not BSA
 
2012-07-25 04:59:15 PM

blahpers: Fano: When did Fark turn into the op ed section of The Advocate?

There are threads on many topics. You may post in the threads that interest you, and you may avoid the threads that do not interest you. You may also post in the threads that do not interest you, but I do not know why you would do so.


I don't really mind, but we've been receiving non-stop round the clock coverage of Chik-fil-a's villainy. I thought everyone on Fark understood gay rights are human rights?
 
2012-07-25 05:01:17 PM

Fano: blahpers: Fano: When did Fark turn into the op ed section of The Advocate?

There are threads on many topics. You may post in the threads that interest you, and you may avoid the threads that do not interest you. You may also post in the threads that do not interest you, but I do not know why you would do so.

I don't really mind, but we've been receiving non-stop round the clock coverage of Chik-fil-a's villainy. I thought everyone on Fark understood gay rights are human rights?


Ohohohoho. Read upwards and weep.
 
2012-07-25 05:02:47 PM

Fano: blahpers: Fano: When did Fark turn into the op ed section of The Advocate?

There are threads on many topics. You may post in the threads that interest you, and you may avoid the threads that do not interest you. You may also post in the threads that do not interest you, but I do not know why you would do so.

I don't really mind, but we've been receiving non-stop round the clock coverage of Chik-fil-a's villainy. I thought everyone on Fark understood gay rights are human rights?


I thought Chik-fil-a's villainy was the incredible stupidity of their name. So they hate gays as well?

I guess they're counting on the stereotype of gay men only eating healthy and not going for fried chicken. Wonder how well that's going to work out for them in the long run.
 
2012-07-25 05:03:56 PM

casual disregard: GAT_00: Mugato: So uh...do the um, Girl Scouts allow...nothing, nothing.

They have a DADT policy.

Also, again, why is this suddenly a thing? BSOA has had this policy for years.

It's not suddenly a thing, it's been an ongoing thing. When I was a cub scout living in a foreign country due to my father's military service, I was puzzled one day when we went to the BX and a woman discouraged us from buying Levi's brand jeans because they supported BSA's anti-gay agenda. Why would gays join the boy scouts, my little boy mind wondered. It made no sense at the time because back then it had been drilled into my head that gays belonged in prison and BSA was top of the line in terms of purity.

That was almost twenty years ago. I now believe people join a meritocracy based on merit. I no longer believe BSA cares about merit.

/now I can go to the levi's home page and see a dude wearing a drab green shirt with bright red pants
//looks like levi's switched teams, so why not BSA


Damn. I wish someone had told me that about Levi's twenty years ago. It would have saved me from buying many shiatty pairs of jeans from a brand that used to make quality goods.
 
2012-07-25 05:08:03 PM

Farking Canuck: Fano: blahpers: Fano: When did Fark turn into the op ed section of The Advocate?

There are threads on many topics. You may post in the threads that interest you, and you may avoid the threads that do not interest you. You may also post in the threads that do not interest you, but I do not know why you would do so.

I don't really mind, but we've been receiving non-stop round the clock coverage of Chik-fil-a's villainy. I thought everyone on Fark understood gay rights are human rights?

I thought Chik-fil-a's villainy was the incredible stupidity of their name. So they hate gays as well?

I guess they're counting on the stereotype of gay men only eating healthy and not going for fried chicken. Wonder how well that's going to work out for them in the long run.


Well, at least for eating non-greasy cock. Salty presumably fine.
 
2012-07-25 05:10:13 PM

MurphyMurphy: On the internet, everyone has earned their Eagle.

Who knew?


I haven't.

I was a scout, but not an Eagle, not even close. Only made it up to Webelos, then our local troop kind of fell apart for a lack of a Scoutmaster. The Den Mother we had up until then couldn't suffice, we needed a male scoutmaster and had no volunteers. I'd like to think if I had the chance, I would have tried to earn my Eagle.

I still volunteer with the BSA occasionally. The troop I volunteer with has a very informal "DADT" sort of policy. We won't ask or snoop, please don't tell (if only because it would put us in an awkward place with our local council over having an openly gay scout, we'd have to kick him out and wouldn't want to do that).

If one of us found out incidentally that one of our scouts was LBGT, we'd turn a blind eye, unless they forced the issue by making it public.
 
2012-07-25 05:10:54 PM

Pockafrusta: GTFO... Go start your own organization then and let THEM have their culture too. Same thing with Augusta and their Men only rule. Let them be and create your own farking club with your own farking rules.

Forcing others to accept you is not acceptance at all.



What next? Telling me my organization has to accept blacks and asians? stop being bigoted to my beliefs!
 
2012-07-25 05:14:14 PM

Pockafrusta: GTFO... Go start your own organization then and let THEM have their culture too. Same thing with Augusta and their Men only rule. Let them be and create your own farking club with your own farking rules.

Forcing others to accept you is not acceptance at all.


Nobody is forcing them to do anything.

People are exercising their right to free speech to criticize the BSA's repulsive policies.

Are you telling us that we do not have the right to speak out about something??
 
2012-07-25 05:15:53 PM
They didn't do that, they simply have an idea of what they want to promote as a healthy way of life and they can because its a choice. You don't have to join the boy scouts of America. There are other organizations that will accept anyone of any orientation. The Boy and Girl Scouts of America will not be one of them.

Nice try, the Girls Scouts of America does not have a policy against lesbian members:

"As a private organization, Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. respects the values and beliefs of each of its members and does not intrude into personal matters. Therefore, there are no membership policies on sexual preference."


It doesn't change anything. The point IS that a private organization is private and they are not required by law to accept anyone they don't want to.
 
2012-07-25 05:39:43 PM
Since when has being a private organization been a shield of any fashion from protests against moral failings?
A private organization that does things that people find morally objectionable are bound to be protested against, whether those things are legal or not.
And the bolded part of your comment is only half true -- it is not against the law, but it IS bigoted.


We need to find a new word here. I don't hate people for what they choose to be. So I can't be a bigot. You want to put your penis in a mans arse you can, this will not produce a child. The two can love each other until they die. Two men can adopt or find a segregate mother to have a child together. Two women can have sperm inserted to genetically resemble each other or adopt.

A group of people that wish to promote the natural course of the human condition can't be called bigots. We just need to find another word.
 
2012-07-25 05:58:20 PM

Mistymtnhop: Skywolf Philosopher: BarkingUnicorn: Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.

SHMOOTH

Eh, I don't think homosexuality is right myself, but I do advocate free will. Of course, anyone that is for the topic, why would I be with them?

/In other words, I agrees.

What do you mean by "I don't think homosexuality is right myself"? I'm assuming that if you are not gay that you would not practice homosexuality, and therefore it does not affect you. If this is the case how are your thoughts or feelings regarding homosexuality relevent?


Homosexuality decreases the overall human population, and without a human population, there would be no need for morality; ergo, that which decreases the population is inherently immoral. Unless you have a sound counter to this logical postulate that would disprove it.
 
2012-07-25 06:15:37 PM

Skywolf Philosopher: Mistymtnhop: Skywolf Philosopher: BarkingUnicorn: Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.

SHMOOTH

Eh, I don't think homosexuality is right myself, but I do advocate free will. Of course, anyone that is for the topic, why would I be with them?

/In other words, I agrees.

What do you mean by "I don't think homosexuality is right myself"? I'm assuming that if you are not gay that you would not practice homosexuality, and therefore it does not affect you. If this is the case how are your thoughts or feelings regarding homosexuality relevent?

Homosexuality decreases the overall human population, and without a human population, there would be no need for morality; ergo, that which decreases the population is inherently immoral. Unless you have a sound counter to this logical postulate that would disprove it.



1) Homosexuality does not decrease the human population. People don't die of being gay. What you meant to say was that it does not increase the human population. The human population continues to grow because not every member is gay. But the greater the percentage of exclusive homosexuals in the population, the slower the total population will grow.

2) The human population is currently above 7 billion and we are expected to reach 10 billion by 2050. That figure is significant, because currently, the earth does not produce enough food to feed 10 billion people. If human population exceeds 10 billion people, we are certain to see a mass die-off of humanity, on a scale that has not ever been witnessed. Whether that mass die-off is caused by warfare, starvation, or disease resulting from malnutrition (or some combination of the above), it will happen. The resources of the earth are not infinite.

3) Warfare, and the suffering of billions of people due to starvation and disease are tragic. If they can be avoided, it is our moral obligation to do so. Neglecting to prevent an avoidable tragedy once it has been foreseen is, itself, an immoral act.

4) Ergo, homosexuality, which allows an individual to satisfy his/her biological drives without resulting in the death of millions due to overpopulation, is morally acceptable to anyone who wishes to perpetuate the human species as a whole.
 
2012-07-25 06:37:59 PM

FloydA: Skywolf Philosopher: Mistymtnhop: Skywolf Philosopher: BarkingUnicorn: Goes to show that Scouting does turn boys into men with good principles.

SHMOOTH

Eh, I don't think homosexuality is right myself, but I do advocate free will. Of course, anyone that is for the topic, why would I be with them?

/In other words, I agrees.

What do you mean by "I don't think homosexuality is right myself"? I'm assuming that if you are not gay that you would not practice homosexuality, and therefore it does not affect you. If this is the case how are your thoughts or feelings regarding homosexuality relevent?

Homosexuality decreases the overall human population, and without a human population, there would be no need for morality; ergo, that which decreases the population is inherently immoral. Unless you have a sound counter to this logical postulate that would disprove it.


1) Homosexuality does not decrease the human population. People don't die of being gay. What you meant to say was that it does not increase the human population. The human population continues to grow because not every member is gay. But the greater the percentage of exclusive homosexuals in the population, the slower the total population will grow.

2) The human population is currently above 7 billion and we are expected to reach 10 billion by 2050. That figure is significant, because currently, the earth does not produce enough food to feed 10 billion people. If human population exceeds 10 billion people, we are certain to see a mass die-off of humanity, on a scale that has not ever been witnessed. Whether that mass die-off is caused by warfare, starvation, or disease resulting from malnutrition (or some combination of the above), it will happen. The resources of the earth are not infinite.

3) Warfare, and the suffering of billions of people due to starvation and disease are tragic. If they can be avoided, it is our moral obligation to do so. Neglecting to prevent an avoidable tragedy once i ...


This is an outstanding and irrefutable logical postulate, my friend. For all Farkers who do not believe in the Christian God, I would commend this to you in your consideration of this moral scenario.

/However, as a follower of Jesus, I believe that we are in the final days of the existence of the universe, and soon, there will be a rapturous event, in which all who chose Jesus are translated into a new world, a paradise, free from death, disease, strife, warfare, or anything else of that kind. This does not correspond to the Mayan apocalyptic prediction; Christians believe that nobody will know when this event shall occur.
 
2012-07-25 06:39:19 PM

BKITU: My best friend is an Eagle Scout. I have no idea whether he will be turning in his medal, but during his promotion ceremony, a sparrow landed on my shoulder and stayed there for a few minutes. This was 20 years ago.

I'm sure it's a sign, but I'm not sure of what.


It's a sign you should watch Portlandia.
 
2012-07-25 06:40:30 PM
My Eagle Scout medal is at my parent's house in FL. They have it framed on the wall w/ a pic of me when I was awarded it. I won't be back until T-giving, so, It might be a while before I can return my medal, and it would break my parent's heart.
 
2012-07-25 06:46:06 PM

BKITU: BronyMedic: serial_crusher: Ideally I'd like to change the BSA from within, but realistically I haven't been that active in my adult years.

Good luck with that. The structure of the BSA is that of an organization which not only condones religious fundamentalism, but actively works to encourage it. Local member organizations are given a blank slate to run out those who are not religious - Atheists and Agnostics - and it's a rather uncomfortable position for anyone who is NOT a Christian theist due to their close ties with local churches. On the surface, the BSA tries to appear all inclusive and tolerant, but once you're in, the reality is quite different.

Plenty of Jewish scouts out there. I didn't grow up in an area with a significant Muslim community so I don't think there were any in my troop, but I remember enough from my various handbooks to know they would have been welcome.

There might be an Abrahamic preference, but I believe members of other, non-Abrahamic faiths would have been welcome as well (I'm not so certain of this as for Abrahamic theists, but fairly sure).


Soooooo...it's Freemasonry for the kids?

/never in Scouts
//my town never had a group when I was a kid
 
2012-07-25 07:03:36 PM
Eagle Scout here. I was in a paramilitary troop and had to (required) earn the God and Country award, the 50 Miler award, the Historic Trails award, the Ordeal member of the Order of the Arrow award, the Save Our American Resources award, Senior Lifesaving and do countless hours of community service to get that at the age of 17. By then, I had attended Philmont, on my own, earned dimes. I learned how to rope, ride, and rappel by 14. I know how to make my own rope. I can crack a bullwhip, and throw a knife or tomahawk and make it stick. We met every Tuesday evening in a hot Methodist church basement and had close order drill, inspection, and calisthenics, before the meeting even began. Our leaders were presidents of banks and major corporations. When we found out one of the guys was a suspected homo, no one would sleep in a tent with him. I stood forward and said I would and anyone that had a problem with that had a problem with me, and we could throw down to see who would walk away with honor. A real man isn't afraid of standing up to bullies. When I got my award, it was evident that two candidates would not. One, for being atheist, and one for being gay. I took the award I earned, and quit the next day, after my family had had a big celebration party over it.
I immediately joined Horizon club. First. Male. Member. Ever.
I had publicity over it and had to deal with an enormous amount of badgering from peers in school, and new organizations. I declined to be interviewed. I doled out a few black eyes, and it was over in one week. I had worked for 4 years as a camp councilor at a Camp Fire Camp. Teaching young suburbanites and inner city girls alike how to be better people.
Senior year of High School. Doing a March of Dimes walk a thon, Through a bad part of town, I had 5 girls from my lily white high school walking with me as we approached a corner loaded with local girls who were curious about white people walking in their neighborhood. The girls from my school were terrified when the mob broke and ran towards us. Then the local girls all mobbed me and hugged me and called me by my "Indian" name, and I called them all by theirs. They were girls of mine from camp. They told the girls I was with that I was a great guy and they were very lucky to know me.
Then they all presented, at my suggestion, their knives, albeit switchblades, and showed me how clean and sharp they were, and told me they had been practicing their knife safety and weren't doing anything "stupid" with them, as I had advised them not to, back at camp. Then, they gave us money for the March Of Dimes. And escorted us through the neighborhood. Letting every one know we were with them and no one had better fark with us. That was 1974. Today on Face book, many of the ex cheerleaders I knew then are friending me, and remembering that time.
I worked hard after graduation. Worked in a steel mill to pay for college and when that money ran out, enlisted in the USAF, and became a SP to get the old GI Bill to go back to school. When I got out, I worked as a chef, as a factory worker, in mills, and plants, and even had my own business. But it was always had, grueling work. When I was 45, I applied for my first office job. A very nice man looked at my resume, and being a gay, married man, ignored the Eagle Scout notation on the resume, and hired me anyway. I've been there 11 years, and don't see any reason why I should be proud of a silver medal. The work, and determination, and adversity I overcame to be here is what I am proud of. The association with the BSA, no. The scoutmaster who taught me how to kill a man with one hand with is dead, and I had hoped the homophobia the troop had was gone, but apparently not. Learning what I learned in Camp FIre, to seek beauty, inner beauty, and how to befriend anyone, regardless of who they are or appear to be, is what taught me to be a good American. Not some fancy patch I sewed myself on my sash. (Incidentally, I parked a silver quarter behind each of my 24 merit badges, which is $6 face value in silver coins and I still have it)
I'm going to return my award.
It represents fear, and hatred.
And cowardice and bigotry I cannot abide in my soul or country.
I owe my livelihood at this point in my life to a gay man who gave me a second chance, and perhaps it was karma for allowing a gay boy to know that acceptance is what being a man is, or perhaps, it was just a coincidence, like a sparrow landing on a shoulder, but in the long run, I will go to my grave knowing that I did the right thing and won't lose sleep over it.
 
2012-07-25 07:17:09 PM

captcaveman: They didn't do that, they simply have an idea of what they want to promote as a healthy way of life and they can because its a choice. You don't have to join the boy scouts of America. There are other organizations that will accept anyone of any orientation. The Boy and Girl Scouts of America will not be one of them.

Nice try, the Girls Scouts of America does not have a policy against lesbian members:

"As a private organization, Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. respects the values and beliefs of each of its members and does not intrude into personal matters. Therefore, there are no membership policies on sexual preference."

It doesn't change anything. The point IS that a private organization is private and they are not required by law to accept anyone they don't want to.


Sorry, but you specifically made a point of saying that the Girl Scouts of America is one of the organizations that won't "accept anyone of any orientation." I was merely pointing out that you were mistaken.
 
2012-07-25 07:26:17 PM

jimk777: BronyMedic: jimk777: Yeah. You know the problem with that is the key phrase "some withing the psychology community." Leaving aside the news that it is a community versus some psychologists or some researchers the problem is that in any given year there are some within the psychological "community" that believe any number of things that next year or next decade are determined to be complete crap. I wouldn't be surprised if there are "some" somewhere that still think Freud was right just as there are "some" people who think the world is literally flat. Nothing makes any of those statements particularly relevant beyond the fact that "some" people are also all the time coming up with great ideas while stoned.

The issue with that concern you're having is that there is a legitimate neurochemical and physiological basis to consider pedophilia a separate sexual orientation, which would be completely different than gender or emotional-based orientations, such as homosexuality.

As the article says, there are many pedophiles who never develop an adult sexual orientation or develop an incomplete one.

The problem is, like those orientations, rewiring a pedophile to not be attracted to children may prove to be impossible without physically altering the brain structure at the neuronal level, and as you well know, that's beyond modern technology. And unlike adult sexual orientations, this is a pathological and immensely destructive impulse to act on.


I hear what you are saying but at this point that is not proven versus simply a hypothesis with some evidence. That simply means it could be considered but not that it is at all necessarily the final answer. The problem in all of this is that people try to tie things up in neat little boxes and human sex and the human sex drive is not even remotely like that. Where does pedophilia stop and underage sex begin for example and why would anyone think all pedophiles are the same? All you can really say at this point is they have a ...


Gay/Straight arguments aside, Learn to use the "Enter" key occasionally.
 
2012-07-25 07:39:13 PM

vudukungfu: I owe my livelihood at this point in my life to a gay man who gave me a second chance, and perhaps it was karma for allowing a gay boy to know that acceptance is what being a man is, or perhaps, it was just a coincidence, like a sparrow landing on a shoulder, but in the long run, I will go to my grave knowing that I did the right thing and won't lose sleep over it.


Live your life, man. I have to admit I'm feeling a little bit less enthralled than you. But I'm thinking acceptance of something else is something still stranger. I'm Bi. Nobody I know believes in Bi. The straights think it's cheating, the gays think it's lying. Those are the only words I know. I've never met anyone accepting of the B in LGBT. Not even amongst the LGTs.
 
2012-07-25 07:44:01 PM

casual disregard: Live your life, man. I have to admit I'm feeling a little bit less enthralled than you. But I'm thinking acceptance of something else is something still stranger. I'm Bi. Nobody I know believes in Bi. The straights think it's cheating, the gays think it's lying. Those are the only words I know. I've never met anyone accepting of the B in LGBT. Not even amongst the LGTs.


People think what they've been indoctrinated to think.
Live your life, man.
*fist bump*
 
2012-07-25 08:38:16 PM

crzybtch: Jon iz teh kewl: crzybtch: Jon iz teh kewl: crzybtch: Pumpernickel bread: Being gay isn't a choice and gay adults should be able to do whatever they want with other gay adults...including get married, but I think the Boy Scouts are right here. Those that want to allow gay men to go out into the woods with preteen and teen boys seem perfectly willing to put the safety of these kids in peril in the name of political correctness. The simple truth of the matter is that if men that are known to be attracted to young men are put in a position of power over a group of them and then be permitted to take them out to secluded places, abuse of that power is bound to happen. 99% of gay men wanting to serve as scoutmasters would probably serve admirably, but undoubtedly there would be those looking to abuse that power for sexual gratification. The Jerry Sanduskys of the world would all be applying to be scoutmasters.

I hate to break it to you but the majority of pedophiles are "straight" men!

i didn't realize it was "straight" to have underage sex with CHILDREN. i thought being straight meant you did everything proper.

so in this case they'd be termed "gay". since they're "happy" doing whatever.

I cannot believe that you do not recognise the difference between being gay and being a pedophile! Because you have sex with a CHILD you are a pedophile, regarless of the sex of the child! You need to look up pedophilia, because it is NOT about your sexual orientation. Having sex with a child is wayyyyyy beyond having consentual sex with an adult partner of the same sex. I have lots of gay friends who think pedophiles should go to jail or receive the death penalty just like the rest of my straight friends. To think that a man who rapes children is "gay" is simplistic and naive.

get with the program, stupid
gay = stupid

And if this is the best you can come up with, I am sure your IQ is off the chart. Funny how often haters are ignorant people.


hater? i'm not a hater, i'm a LOVER! i just don't love people telling me how often they stick their dicks in other mens asses.
 
2012-07-25 09:27:15 PM
JackieRabbit:

I see there's at least one person in this thread that doesn't have TPipes on ignore.

Actually, I think you may be the only one.
 
2012-07-25 09:29:40 PM

fusillade762: JackieRabbit:

I see there's at least one person in this thread that doesn't have TPipes on ignore.

Actually, I think you may be the only one.


I don't.
But I'm his neighbor.
 
2012-07-25 09:52:31 PM

vudukungfu: fusillade762: JackieRabbit:

I see there's at least one person in this thread that doesn't have TPipes on ignore.

Actually, I think you may be the only one.

I don't.
But I'm his neighbor.


You have my sympathies.
 
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