One thing I rarely see come up in these threads is how far we have fallen. When I was a kid (40+ years ago) my father worked various jobs and my mom stayed home pooping out kids. Dad never finished high school and worked the kinds of jobs that gets you (sales, bartender, retail, etc). We lived pretty good on what he made. We didn't have a lot of luxuries but we ate well and lived in a decent house with enough left over for a trip to the movies or A&W on the weekends. Now both parents work, farm their kids out to daycare and are one paycheck away from disaster. Sad.

It's always amusing to meet people who don't mind the thought that other people are struggling and hungry.

"They should just get better jobs! Better jobs that no one has any obligation to create! And then go be poor out of my gold-encrusted sight!"

Monsters on parade.

slayer199: Pincy: Ahh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.

There's working hard and working hard to accomplish a goal to get ahead and make more money. There are countless numbers of people that worked their way through college to better themselves, or earned a skill that made a "liveable" wage. Yet you expect me to feel pity for those that can't or won't do the same? Sorry, if you're an able-bodied American, you CAN do it if you want it bad enough.

Because there are enough good paying jobs for everyone who wants one, right? The reason my wife gets hundreds of resumes from overqualified people for a $35,000/year administrative assistant job is merely because they all want to downgrade, right?

No, not everyone can do it if they want it bad enough. There will always be people near the bottom of the economic ladder. We can either force their employers to pay them more or we can subsidize them with government handouts.

And Sam Walton spins in his grave.

When I was growing up, Wal-Mart was the best job in town for teenagers and unskilled workers. Started at $10/hr (early 90's btw).

Bought only american goods and paid people a fair wage. What a concept.

Then the kids got it. Greed consumes.

Sam was a billionaire doing things his way...wasn't enough for them I guess.

divx88: In terms of other industries I know the entry is more difficult. But that's what life is, it's difficult and crying about it being difficult doesn't really make it any less difficult.

Well, the idea is to cry to elected officials who would then set trade policy to staunch some of the bleeding jobs. Fair is what we make it, and if the majority of us think that it isn't fair our wages are set by a Burmese peasant, then we can do something about it.

divx88: Here's some homework to start in that attempt ...
Respectfully, go fark yourself. Entrepreneurship isn't the solution for everyone.
Some people don't want to run their own business. Some people aren't cut out for running their own business. Count me as both. Tried it. Don't ever care to again.
I went to school for 3D design and graphic design, degrees in both. Worked front-end programming cell phone interfaces until my job was offshored, so have that bit of programming experience, too. Give me something to do along that narrow track, I'll check into the zone and jam out a project lickety split, and know it backwards and frontwards. I'll lose myself for hours, never considering it to be work, and end just as fresh-faced and stress free as I was going in. I can and do willingly seek out educational opportunities that would expand my skillset, and take a genuine interest in pushing myself forward.

Anything else? No.
I don't look for clients. I don't size up competitors. I don't make business plans. I don't have financial projections. Get someone else who is good at that. I know what I am good at, and I'll be infinitely more efficient if that is all I have to focus on.
But again, can't always do that when there's a mad drive to outsource everything that isn't nailed down, and especially not coupled with the repeated attacks on the paltry wages of the remaining domestic-only service jobs.

ModernPrimitive01: Is this the thread where I get to brag about my 6 figure salary and brand everyone who lives in poverty as being lazy?

I think this is where I mention I'll make six figures in a year or two, but I want everyone else to be doing well. I don't want anyone working 70 hours a week to keep a roof over their heads. Hell I don't want anyone working 70 hours a week period.

Buffalo77: is that all that catastrophic given it is probably not the same guy.

Yes, it is.

I always die a little inside when I stumble onto one of these threads and see the old 'you can't live on $8 an hour' argument.

I've said this enough probably.... you Americans seem to have no idea what being poor actually means.

bromah: well when a person is earning enough working to qualify to be below poverty level it's a sign that minimum wages is not working.

People biatch about gov benie programs are the same people that champion businesses like WalMart....how do you reconcile that wallmart knowingly pays workers in a way to keep them below poverty level and then has a department to sign people up for benefits so they don't ask for a raise?

You don't, you talk about bootstraps and ignore reality.

Pincy: hh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.

So "good wage" = "rich" now?

I'll make a note of it.

slayer199: No, it's maybe because we worked our asses off to work our way up to a good wage rather than relying on the government to artificially set a wage for us.

Ahh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.

Brought to you by SEIU. Organizing the lowly since 1929.

James!: nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.

Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.

well when a person is earning enough working to qualify to be below poverty level it's a sign that minimum wages is not working.

People biatch about gov benie programs are the same people that champion businesses like WalMart....how do you reconcile that wallmart knowingly pays workers in a way to keep them below poverty level and then has a department to sign people up for benefits so they don't ask for a raise?