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(AlterNet)   How do these seven mega-rich companies stay on top? By paying their employees minimum wage (or less), duh   (alternet.org) divider line 162
    More: Asinine, NELP, employment law, Ponte Vedra Beach, New York Comic Con, Sam Walton, extremists, Con Edison, minimum wages  
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4652 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Jul 2012 at 1:35 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-24 12:33:08 PM  
I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!
 
2012-07-24 01:14:57 PM  

downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!


Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!
 
2012-07-24 01:15:57 PM  
Not to pretend that Starbucks are a lot of saints, but I think this needs fixing:

Starbucks, known for putting small businesses shiatty coffee stands out of business when it rolls into a neighborhood, wants to help small businesses get loans?

Somehow I don't see Starbucks killing every small business on the block when they move in. They sell coffee and related crap. Somehow I don't see that running every small business nearby into the ground. Hell, it might increase traffic to the area.
 
2012-07-24 01:16:03 PM  
Yeah, that's pretty much how it works.
 
2012-07-24 01:28:42 PM  
All in one page? Thank you Alternet!

/was preparing for slideshow hell
 
2012-07-24 01:42:14 PM  
Is the Obvious tag not getting paid enough to show up to work on this thread?
 
2012-07-24 01:42:19 PM  
Welcome to neo-feudalism.
 
2012-07-24 01:49:45 PM  

slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!


YOUDONTSAY.JPG

Is this news to anyone?
 
2012-07-24 01:56:43 PM  

Durendal: Somehow I don't see Starbucks killing every small business on the block when they move in. They sell coffee and related crap. Somehow I don't see that running every small business nearby into the ground. Hell, it might increase traffic to the area.


They are brutal on the mom and pop handjob purveyors.
 
2012-07-24 01:58:57 PM  
well when a person is earning enough working to qualify to be below poverty level it's a sign that minimum wages is not working.

People biatch about gov benie programs are the same people that champion businesses like WalMart....how do you reconcile that wallmart knowingly pays workers in a way to keep them below poverty level and then has a department to sign people up for benefits so they don't ask for a raise?
 
2012-07-24 02:18:03 PM  
I give Starbucks a pass. They at least provide health insurance for their part time employees.
 
2012-07-24 02:20:17 PM  

slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!


Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)
 
2012-07-24 02:23:23 PM  

nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)


I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.
 
2012-07-24 02:27:26 PM  

Durendal: Not to pretend that Starbucks are a lot of saints, but I think this needs fixing:

Starbucks, known for putting small businesses shiatty coffee stands out of business when it rolls into a neighborhood, wants to help small businesses get loans?

Somehow I don't see Starbucks killing every small business on the block when they move in. They sell coffee and related crap. Somehow I don't see that running every small business nearby into the ground. Hell, it might increase traffic to the area.


A yup, I know of a half dozen small cafes, three do their own roasting, doing fine pretty close to a Starbucks

/but I'm in Seattle, YMMV
 
2012-07-24 02:28:12 PM  

James!: nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.


Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.
 
2012-07-24 02:30:12 PM  

Pincy: James!: nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.

Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.


He also forgot to mention the life long debt of student loans if that "better job" required any education.
 
2012-07-24 02:31:27 PM  
Brought to you by SEIU. Organizing the lowly since 1929.
 
2012-07-24 02:33:12 PM  

Pincy: James!: nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.

Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.


It's more of a "Get roommates" argument with my personal anecdote tagged on the end.

But since you've asked only 5.2% of hourly workers make at or below minimum wage. So around 95% of all hourly jobs are "better".
 
2012-07-24 02:33:18 PM  

Pincy: James!: nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.

Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.


So, just how much should a hotel housekeeper or carwash employee or "barista" (coffee slinger) make? $14/hr? $18? $25? How much is enough to pay somebody to do a job that a moderately Down-syndrome afflicted person could be trained to do? Are they hard jobs? Sure....Are they jobs that require a high level of skill or a specialized degree? No, and the wages reflect that...And "get a better job" is the answer, whether you and people like want to admit or not...
 
2012-07-24 02:35:46 PM  

chevydeuce: Pincy: James!: nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.

Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.

So, just how much should a hotel housekeeper or carwash employee or "barista" (coffee slinger) make? $14/hr? $18? $25? How much is enough to pay somebody to do a job that a moderately Down-syndrome afflicted person could be trained to do? Are they hard jobs? Sure....Are they jobs that require a high level of skill or a specialized degree? No, and the wages reflect that...And "get a better job" is the answer, whether you and people like want to admit or not...


How much should YOU make? Wages across the board (until your hit the boardroom) have been stagnant for 20 years. CEOs pocketed you most your slice of prosperity of the last two decades and you defend them?
 
2012-07-24 02:36:06 PM  
General Electric; on credit card or pre-paid check for most places in upstate New York. They apparently don't like to pay invoices on Net30. Or Net60. Or Net200. When my last company was doing a contract with GE, every vendor would laugh and ask me "Have they paid you anything yet?"
 
2012-07-24 02:57:23 PM  
It's always amusing to meet people who don't mind the thought that other people are struggling and hungry.

"They should just get better jobs! Better jobs that no one has any obligation to create! And then go be poor out of my gold-encrusted sight!"

Monsters on parade.
 
2012-07-24 03:04:05 PM  

nmemkha: Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)


Yes, it's called having roommates, eating less, partying less, getting student loans and going to college to better myself. I worked 2 jobs from 18-21 (delivering pizzas and as a barback). When I was 21 I started bartending (which made me more money) until I graduated. In the summers I worked jobs like spreading asphalt, working in a dairy, and worked 60 hour weeks for minimum wage (which was much less then). It sucked...but I learned the value of hard work and I kept my eye on the prize.

Don't expect me to cry about people making minimum wage for an unskilled job. Learn a skill that pays more and/or get an education. If you're going to settle for minimum wage, that's totally on you.
 
2012-07-24 03:06:45 PM  

slayer199: nmemkha: Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

Yes, it's called having roommates, eating less, partying less, getting student loans and going to college to better myself. I worked 2 jobs from 18-21 (delivering pizzas and as a barback). When I was 21 I started bartending (which made me more money) until I graduated. In the summers I worked jobs like spreading asphalt, working in a dairy, and worked 60 hour weeks for minimum wage (which was much less then). It sucked...but I learned the value of hard work and I kept my eye on the prize.

Don't expect me to cry about people making minimum wage for an unskilled job. Learn a skill that pays more and/or get an education. If you're going to settle for minimum wage, that's totally on you.


You seem to be working hard, posting on Fark in the middle of the workday. What do you do that earns you the big bucks?
 
2012-07-24 03:08:11 PM  

Pincy: Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.


Of course, it's the government's responsibility and not their responsibility to learn a skill that pays more.

Minimum wage jobs are unskilled jobs that pay the minimum because they don't require any skill. Stop with the myth that it has to be a living wage for people. They're entry-level jobs for people and most (4/5's) are under the age of 25.

Read the stats on the government's website: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm
 
kab
2012-07-24 03:09:00 PM  
So many bootstraps in this thread, I'd swear I stepped into a cobbler convention.
 
2012-07-24 03:11:14 PM  

Pincy: James!: nmemkha: slayer199: downstairs: I'm outraged that retail workers, cashiers, and cleaning crew members are making minimum wage! Thanks for uncovering this economic atrocity!

Unskilled labor making $8 an hour! This is horrible!

Have you ever tried to live on solely $8 an hour?! (If mommy and daddy are still paying your rent, car, and/or an allowance, it doesn't count.)

I have. I had several roommates and eventually I got a better job.

Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.


So you would justify paying a broom-pusher in NY $15/hour to start? And you'll probably expect him to receive annual raises which keep pace with inflation.
If you're content to push a broom through your working years, or unable to do anything else, life's going to suck a little bit.
Want to raise a family on that? Then you're guilty of living well beyond your means.

Try living in NY on less than $30K a year.
 
2012-07-24 03:12:01 PM  

kab: So many bootstraps in this thread, I'd swear I stepped into a cobbler convention.


No doubt. The sweetest thing is ... they actually believe the shiat they spew. They are in for a big surprise when inflation kicks in and their "phat wages" don't but the basics anymore. The cognitive dissonance while they reconcile the fact that they have been duped is going to be astounding. It would be funny, if the same demographic also weren't avid gun owners.
 
2012-07-24 03:13:50 PM  

James!: But since you've asked only 5.2% of hourly workers make at or below minimum wage. So around 95% of all hourly jobs are "better".


Ten cents above minimum wage is better.
 
2012-07-24 03:15:47 PM  

Pincy: James!: But since you've asked only 5.2% of hourly workers make at or below minimum wage. So around 95% of all hourly jobs are "better".

Ten cents above minimum wage is better.


Indeed it is.
 
2012-07-24 03:17:30 PM  

nmemkha: No doubt. The sweetest thing is ... they actually believe the shiat they spew. They are in for a big surprise when inflation kicks in and their "phat wages" don't but the basics anymore. The cognitive dissonance while they reconcile the fact that they have been duped is going to be astounding. It would be funny, if the same demographic also weren't avid gun owners.


No, it's maybe because we worked our asses off to work our way up to a good wage rather than relying on the government to artificially set a wage for us. Many of us had parents or grand parents that grew up in the Great Depression and knew what real hardship was. We used to be proud of Americans that busted their ass to work their way up, but apparently now people that bust their ass and work their way up are objects of scorn for doing so while we pity those that won't work their asses off to better themselves. What a farked up set of values we now have.
 
2012-07-24 03:17:39 PM  

slayer199: Pincy: Ah yes, the old "get a better job argument". Do you know how many people are currently working at or close to minimum wage jobs? There aren't enough "better" jobs out there for all of them. We can either have employers pay them more so that they can at least scrape by or the taxpayers can end up footing the bill through government welfare.

Of course, it's the government's responsibility and not their responsibility to learn a skill that pays more.

Minimum wage jobs are unskilled jobs that pay the minimum because they don't require any skill. Stop with the myth that it has to be a living wage for people. They're entry-level jobs for people and most (4/5's) are under the age of 25.

Read the stats on the government's website: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm


FTFA: Walmart is by far the country's largest low-wage employer, with a US workforce of 1,400,000 people

Ya, everyone who works at Walmart is under 25.
 
2012-07-24 03:19:28 PM  

slayer199: No, it's maybe because we worked our asses off to work our way up to a good wage rather than relying on the government to artificially set a wage for us.


Ahh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.
 
2012-07-24 03:21:28 PM  

Pincy: slayer199: No, it's maybe because we worked our asses off to work our way up to a good wage rather than relying on the government to artificially set a wage for us.

Ahh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.


Only rich people make more than the minimum?
 
2012-07-24 03:23:04 PM  

Pincy: Ya, everyone who works at Walmart is under 25.


Nice Strawman. Why don't you read the government's stats again from their own website. 80% of the people making minimum wage are under 25.

Perhaps retirees wouldn't have to work at Wal-Mart if the government hadn't pissed away their lifetime of social security contributions so they'd actually have more in return. That money was supposed to be set aside and earn interest (per Roosevelt's own vision).
 
2012-07-24 03:25:05 PM  

Pincy: hh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.


So "good wage" = "rich" now?

I'll make a note of it.
 
2012-07-24 03:26:02 PM  
So, here I sit in my air conditioned home, (I work from home as a freelance software developer), sipping a ice coffee and posting on Fark. I am pulling in about $60k a year now (gone are the days of $100k+ at least for now). By all accounts, I live well.

Across the street there is a Mexican guy installing tile by himself in 100F heat. Its concrete tiles and it looks like backbreaking work. He's probably pulling minimum wage if he's lucky.

Am I really working harder than him? Do I really deserve to make x10 what he makes? Does a CEO really deserve to make x100 what I make?
 
2012-07-24 03:26:58 PM  

slayer199: nmemkha: No doubt. The sweetest thing is ... they actually believe the shiat they spew. They are in for a big surprise when inflation kicks in and their "phat wages" don't but the basics anymore. The cognitive dissonance while they reconcile the fact that they have been duped is going to be astounding. It would be funny, if the same demographic also weren't avid gun owners.

No, it's maybe because we worked our asses off to work our way up to a good wage rather than relying on the government to artificially set a wage for us. Many of us had parents or grand parents that grew up in the Great Depression and knew what real hardship was. We used to be proud of Americans that busted their ass to work their way up, but apparently now people that bust their ass and work their way up are objects of scorn for doing so while we pity those that won't work their asses off to better themselves. What a farked up set of values we now have.


Let's talk again in 6 months and see how that "better job" is working out for you tiger ;)
 
2012-07-24 03:27:27 PM  
I like these arguments. So if only around 60% of working Americans over 16 are hourly and of that 60% only around 5% are making at or below the minimum and as Pincy has implied anyone over the minimum is rich then only the 5% of that 60% are actually poor.

That's amazing! What a country!
 
2012-07-24 03:27:46 PM  

Pincy: Ahh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.


There's working hard and working hard to accomplish a goal to get ahead and make more money. There are countless numbers of people that worked their way through college to better themselves, or earned a skill that made a "liveable" wage. Yet you expect me to feel pity for those that can't or won't do the same? Sorry, if you're an able-bodied American, you CAN do it if you want it bad enough.
 
2012-07-24 03:30:16 PM  

nmemkha: Am I really working harder than him? Do I really deserve to make x10 what he makes?


So go give him some of your money if you feel strongly enough about it.
 
2012-07-24 03:32:24 PM  

bromah: well when a person is earning enough working to qualify to be below poverty level it's a sign that minimum wages is not working.

People biatch about gov benie programs are the same people that champion businesses like WalMart....how do you reconcile that wallmart knowingly pays workers in a way to keep them below poverty level and then has a department to sign people up for benefits so they don't ask for a raise?


You don't, you talk about bootstraps and ignore reality.
 
2012-07-24 03:35:47 PM  
And Sam Walton spins in his grave.

When I was growing up, Wal-Mart was the best job in town for teenagers and unskilled workers. Started at $10/hr (early 90's btw).

Bought only american goods and paid people a fair wage. What a concept.

Then the kids got it. Greed consumes.

Sam was a billionaire doing things his way...wasn't enough for them I guess.
 
2012-07-24 03:36:07 PM  

slayer199: Pincy: Ahh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.

There's working hard and working hard to accomplish a goal to get ahead and make more money. There are countless numbers of people that worked their way through college to better themselves, or earned a skill that made a "liveable" wage. Yet you expect me to feel pity for those that can't or won't do the same? Sorry, if you're an able-bodied American, you CAN do it if you want it bad enough.


Because there are enough good paying jobs for everyone who wants one, right? The reason my wife gets hundreds of resumes from overqualified people for a $35,000/year administrative assistant job is merely because they all want to downgrade, right?

No, not everyone can do it if they want it bad enough. There will always be people near the bottom of the economic ladder. We can either force their employers to pay them more or we can subsidize them with government handouts.
 
2012-07-24 03:36:21 PM  

nmemkha: Let's talk again in 6 months and see how that "better job" is working out for you tiger ;)


I have skills in demand, I continually build my skills and learn new ones to remain flexible in a competitive market...so I have no problem finding work that pays me six figures. I worked hard building a career over the last 15 years to get there. Yes, I've been laid off (4 times since 2000) but I've never been out of work longer than a month and I've never taken unemployment. I've never taken my career for granted as I know I could get laid off again at any time. I call it performance through paranoia. At the end of the day the only thing that ensures I'm employable are my skills and reputation.

Again, what a farked up set of values we have when we criticize those that work hard to build a career and pity those that don't rather than holding them accountable for their own lack of accomplishment. Apparently those that accomplish something through dedication and hard work are worthy of derision while those that don't are victims.
 
2012-07-24 03:37:46 PM  

nmemkha: So, here I sit in my air conditioned home, (I work from home as a freelance software developer), sipping a ice coffee and posting on Fark. I am pulling in about $60k a year now (gone are the days of $100k+ at least for now). By all accounts, I live well.

Across the street there is a Mexican guy installing tile by himself in 100F heat. Its concrete tiles and it looks like backbreaking work. He's probably pulling minimum wage if he's lucky.

Am I really working harder than him? Do I really deserve to make x10 what he makes? Does a CEO really deserve to make x100 what I make?


Can the "Mexican" guy come into your office right now and do your job, just by watching you do it, or by just reading a book or online guide? That particular guy? Maybe, if there's some sort of "Good Will Hunting" thing going on, but realistically I would guess, no, he can't...

Now, can you go across the street and do his job after looking at the instructions on the grout bag or even after just going to Home Depot ahd getting a book on tile installation? Yes, you probably could. Now, admittedly, your finished product might not be as good as his at first, and it would probably take you a considerable amount of time to finish, but it would take very little practice to get there.

/and if he's any kind of craftsman, he's knocking down much, MUCH more than minimum wage and most of it is in unreported cash...
 
2012-07-24 03:40:59 PM  

Pincy: Because there are enough good paying jobs for everyone who wants one, right? The reason my wife gets hundreds of resumes from overqualified people for a $35,000/year administrative assistant job is merely because they all want to downgrade, right?

No, not everyone can do it if they want it bad enough. There will always be people near the bottom of the economic ladder. We can either force their employers to pay them more or we can subsidize them with government handouts.


My girlfriend is 42 and is going back to school to change to the medical field as it's more in demand (and she has a Master's Degree already). So yes, they can.

There will always be people at the bottom but if you've been following fark the last month, the War on Poverty has done nothing to reduce poverty. Raising the minimum wage does nothing to help those at the very bottom. What it does is hurt the 80% under 25 that are working those entry-level jobs.
 
2012-07-24 03:42:03 PM  

slayer199: Pincy: Ahh, the other myth surfaces, only rich people work hard.

There's working hard and working hard to accomplish a goal to get ahead and make more money. There are countless numbers of people that worked their way through college to better themselves, or earned a skill that made a "liveable" wage. Yet you expect me to feel pity for those that can't or won't do the same? Sorry, if you're an able-bodied American, you CAN do it if you want it bad enough.


You forget the fact that there are millions of utter crap jobs in this country that have to be done. And no, most aren't done by people under 25. I guess just because it's something that is "above" you, they don't deserve to be able to have a family.

Not everyone can goto college and work they're way up. This country would fall apart if that were the case.
 
2012-07-24 03:43:47 PM  

slayer199: Again, what a farked up set of values we have when we criticize those that work hard to build a career and pity those that don't rather than holding them accountable for their own lack of accomplishment. Apparently those that accomplish something through dedication and hard work are worthy of derision while those that don't are victims.


No one is criticizing you for your accomplishments. You can stop with the martyr complex already.

We are criticizing your implication that people who are at the bottom of the economic ladder don't work hard.
 
2012-07-24 03:46:22 PM  

slayer199: My girlfriend is 42 and is going back to school to change to the medical field as it's more in demand (and she has a Master's Degree already). So yes, they can.


Your logic isn't very good. You can't take a few specific examples and use those to prove a broader point. And it's a good thing for your girlfriend that all of those Walmart workers don't decide to do the same thing because she might have a tougher time finding a job with all that extra competition.
 
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