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(Slashdot)   Gartner analyst who reviewed Windows 8 and posted 'in a word: bad.' has now retracted his comment, and is sorry everyone took his impression that Windows 8 is a festering pile of steaming donkey shiat out of context   (it.slashdot.org) divider line 123
    More: Followup, Gartner, GUI, osx, context, application software, Windows XP  
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3114 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Jul 2012 at 1:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-24 11:39:34 AM  
Don't link to the actual article, Subby. Let's link to a Slashdot thread where people talk about the article.

If I wanted to read Slashdot, I'd be on Slashdot.
 
2012-07-24 11:45:34 AM  
Good lord, people REALLY want to push this narrative for some reason.
 
2012-07-24 12:49:29 PM  

Jackson Herring: Good lord, people REALLY want to push this narrative for some reason.


A lot of people are emotionally invested in which logo sits behind their web browser.
 
2012-07-24 01:00:09 PM  
hostmypicture.com
 
2012-07-24 01:06:42 PM  
"Not Intended To Be A Factual Statement" - Gartner
 
2012-07-24 01:09:29 PM  
Translation: Microsoft became a whiny biatch and whined to Gartner thus threatening his job.
 
Zel
2012-07-24 01:09:41 PM  

MaxxLarge: good-bad-good-bad.jpg


That's the idea. You liked Seven? So buy eight as we shove stupidity like iPad inspired interfaces at you.

How about I keep the one I'm comfortable with and you let the OEMs sell machines without software.
 
2012-07-24 01:11:03 PM  
Gartner is a crock of shiat anyways... its all pay to play and this guy probably got the smack-down because Microsoft gives Gartner a big fat check every year so that they play nice together.
 
2012-07-24 01:11:33 PM  

Zel: MaxxLarge: good-bad-good-bad.jpg

That's the idea. You liked Seven? So buy eight as we shove stupidity like iPad inspired interfaces at you.

How about I keep the one I'm comfortable with and you let the OEMs sell machines without software.


I just got an e-mail about my TechNet subscription renewal, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread.
 
2012-07-24 01:12:47 PM  
Windows 8 reminds me of my parents first computer that had Packard Bell Navigator . When the computer started up it went to a crappy interface with big dumb buttons. Then you had to quit to DOS before reopening windows 3.1. It was really crappy when I was 9 and it is still a crappy idea now that I'm 29.

/boo change
 
2012-07-24 01:13:01 PM  
Running the 8 preview (under Parallels, lol). So far, I've barely touched the Metro UI; straight to Desktop for me, which looks suspiciously like a 7 environment. *shrug*
 
2012-07-24 01:13:30 PM  

MaxxLarge: [hostmypicture.com image 640x502]


Are you forgetting all those UAEs in 3.1? And then all of Windows had to shut down, not just the offending program.
 
2012-07-24 01:14:03 PM  

MaxxLarge: windowshistory.jpg


Needs NT 5 and 2000 in there.

Dodged the 95, Me and Vista bullets. Hope to miss 8 as well.
 
2012-07-24 01:15:29 PM  
"Gunnar Berger has now yanked the offending sentence from his blog post, saying it was taken out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard,..."

So 90% of all users then?
 
2012-07-24 01:17:30 PM  
He says his statement was "taken out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard".

Well, who'd ever want to use an OS with a mouse and keyboard? 8 should be just great.

/I expect MS wanted to push the tablet part of the OS first to create buzz on that and will tweak the desktop Metro UI before release.
//I haven't tried the preview, so I have no idea how messy it is on the desktop, but I'll give it a try when it's released.
 
2012-07-24 01:17:31 PM  

MaxxLarge: [hostmypicture.com image 640x502]


WINDOWS 3.11 WAS NOT GOOD AND WINDOWS 95 WAS NOT shiat. AND IT COMPLETELY IGNORES WINDOWS 2000 AND NT. STOP POSTING THIS. STOP. JUST farkING STOP POSTING THIS, IT IS NOT INSIGHTFUL AND IT HAS CEASED TO BE FUNNY. STOP STOP STOP STOP AAHHHHHRHRRHRHHRHRHRHGWRRGBLLLL

i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-24 01:17:32 PM  
Bertrand and Connie (A playlet)

Connie: Just read your operating system review, whoa, that was pretty scathing stuff.

Bertrand: It was totally taken out of context, I meant like, Michael Jackson "Bad".

Connie: You mean it's actually good?

Bertrand: No I mean my operating system molested me during my sixth grade summer vacation.

*cue slide whistles, playwright not quitting his day job*
 
2012-07-24 01:18:40 PM  
I think part of the problem is that goddamned "good/bad" cycle thing. It might be true, but it's also poisoning the well for this release.
 
2012-07-24 01:19:58 PM  
It's worth keeping in mind that it was a Gartner analyst.

So it really didn't matter what he wrote since there was no chance whatsoever that it would be taken seriously.
 
2012-07-24 01:21:51 PM  

Odd Bird:
Needs NT 5 and 2000 in there


Erm Win2k IS NT5.0 (XP is 5.1)... did you mean NT4, just if you did we'll be playing good/shiat for a while longer what with the rule about odd numbered service packs.


satanorsanta: Windows 8 reminds me of my parents first computer that had Packard Bell Navigator . When the computer started up it went to a crappy interface with big dumb buttons. Then you had to quit to DOS before reopening windows 3.1. It was really crappy when I was 9 and it is still a crappy idea now that I'm 29


It's a pretty good idea as far as these things go. After all an IBM running Windows is identical to a Pack Bell running Windows from the consumers point-of-view. A well written and usable UI sat on top of the stock Windows API's would be a great way to differentiate between your brand and a competitors.

I did say well written and usable... which none of them were.
 
2012-07-24 01:21:55 PM  
What a terrible attempt to backtrack. MS must have threatened his bank account.
 
kab
2012-07-24 01:23:43 PM  

LasersHurt: I think part of the problem is that goddamned "good/bad" cycle thing. It might be true horrid UI, and that 7 works pretty well for most of the users, so there's no pressing need to change but it's also poisoning the well for this release.

 
2012-07-24 01:25:03 PM  
If 8 had something for me I might give it a shot but right now it looks like 7 with Metro thrown on top of it.

I have no use for Metro and already own 7 so...
 
2012-07-24 01:26:52 PM  
Windows 3.1 was a pile of crap.
Barely touched NT 3.5.
Win 95 was fancy and crappy (for a desktop OS- worse for business).
NT 4.0 Workstation was a nice OS. A bit convoluted, but muuuuch better than 3.1 or Win95.
Win 98 SE was nice and I avoided the ME mess.
Win 2k was a pretty solid OS. Couldn't really game too much with it, but that thing was otherwise pretty solid.
Win XP took some getting used to. I didn't like the UI changes. But it grew on me.
I skipped Vista after supporting it as the vacuum of resources it was.
Win 7 seems to be ok. I've only dealt with it a few times.
No idea about Win 8. Looks like Unity gone wrong. And I hate Unity.
 
2012-07-24 01:27:34 PM  

LasersHurt: I think part of the problem is that goddamned "good/bad" cycle thing. It might be true, but it's also poisoning the well for this release.


You know what else poisoned the well for me? That's right, Hitler.

No, wait, I meant "the consumer preview". When the "hey, try our awesome new product" sample is enough to convince a user that they need to run away from your product... you might be doing it wrong.
 
2012-07-24 01:27:36 PM  

MaxxLarge: [hostmypicture.com image 640x502]


Personally I had no issues with 95 or vista. It was just a matter of knowing how to work on your own system, vs crying because you dont understand puters.


Agree on ME though. god awful.
 
2012-07-24 01:29:30 PM  

Gonz: LasersHurt: I think part of the problem is that goddamned "good/bad" cycle thing. It might be true, but it's also poisoning the well for this release.

You know what else poisoned the well for me? That's right, Hitler.

No, wait, I meant "the consumer preview". When the "hey, try our awesome new product" sample is enough to convince a user that they need to run away from your product... you might be doing it wrong.


Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

I personally didn't mind it, though I also ordered a Leap, so I am banking a little bit on that interaction being excellent.
 
2012-07-24 01:30:05 PM  
I get that Microsoft is trying to create a unified "look and feel" across its entire family of products. I really do.

But most people, including me, HATE the goddamned clunky, obnoxious Xbox 360 dashboard...

www.xboxfitness.org

Plus, the sales on those horrid Windows phones continue to plummet, since the OS is unpopular...

www.microsoft.com

And since those are two already-pushed-out interfaces using this ugly-as-sin "huge solid-color tile" motif, it STUNS me that they're persisting with such an unpopular design for their flagship product.

graphics8.nytimes.com

Sorry, Microsoft. You can force-feed people all the excrement you like...But they're not ever going to suddenly decide it's delicious overnight.
 
2012-07-24 01:31:37 PM  

johnnyq:
//I haven't tried the preview, so I have no idea how messy it is on the desktop, but I'll give it a try when it's released.


For the most part once you turn Metro off (as much as you can turn if off) you come face to face with something that looks suspiciously like Windows 7.

I'm not totally convinced it'll do THAT well, it just feels like it's going to hit the same problem Vista did (to one degree or another): the majority of people wanted XP-SP4 (replace with 7-SP2) and not a whole new OS.

Metro itself looks to be a good tablet UI and some of it's features would be quite nifty on a desktop UI.. but it feels like Microsoft have just wholesale copied the tablet UI in to the desktop source tree and gone "Done."
 
2012-07-24 01:32:54 PM  

Zel: MaxxLarge: good-bad-good-bad.jpg

That's the idea. You liked Seven? So buy eight as we shove stupidity like iPad inspired interfaces at you.


Metro is far worse then an iPad/Android style interface (which for phones and tablets, works just fine).

www.istartedsomething.com
 
2012-07-24 01:36:28 PM  

MaxxLarge: Sorry, Microsoft. You can force-feed people all the excrement you like...But they're not ever going to suddenly decide it's delicious overnight.


I look forward to the Microsoft Mojave 2.0 commercials.
 
2012-07-24 01:36:57 PM  

liverpoolumd: Gartner is a crock of shiat anyways... its all pay to play and this guy probably got the smack-down because Microsoft gives Gartner a big fat check every year so that they play nice together.


That's what I got from the article.

Give a new piece of technology an objectively bad review: receive blacklist threats from technology's owner.
 
2012-07-24 01:37:04 PM  
Just getting users adjusted to the Windows XP -> Windows 7 transition was difficult enough, and those were some fairly minor Ui differences. I can't imagine what it would be like if they had Metro thrusted upon them.
 
2012-07-24 01:39:44 PM  

MaxxLarge: [hostmypicture.com image 640x502]


Needs a slight amendment:

Windows 3.1: shiat
Windows 95: good
Windows 98: shiat
Windows 98 SE: good

And then continue from there.
 
2012-07-24 01:40:02 PM  

MaxxLarge: I get that Microsoft is trying to create a unified "look and feel" across its entire family of products. I really do.

But most people, including me, HATE the goddamned clunky, obnoxious Xbox 360 dashboard...

[www.xboxfitness.org image 425x245]

Yes. I wanted to like it, I really did, but it's just bad. Ads everywhere, necessary functions are buried (why does it take so many selections to go play a song from my music?). But there I was sitting on my couch, Xbox controller in hand, in a moment of silent reflection realized that if I didn't know any better finding and launching the game in the Xbox disc drive is rather difficult to find on the dashboard.

So from that point on I can't recommend the Metro interface. It's ambitious I agree but it reinforces too many bad UI habits. Namely the habit I see most Windows users perform: just clicking through things until finding what you want... ugh.

 
2012-07-24 01:40:40 PM  
*HTML fail. :`(
 
2012-07-24 01:41:07 PM  

liverpoolumd: Gartner is a crock of shiat anyways... its all pay to play and this guy probably got the smack-down because Microsoft gives Gartner a big fat check every year so that they play nice together.


THIS

/fark your magic quadrant
 
2012-07-24 01:41:43 PM  
I really don't see where the hate is coming from; it's not that bad. I like the whole tile interface on touch devices. It doesn't really make sense for non-touch systems.

Overall, I think Windows 8 is ok. There's no compelling reason to upgrade an existing computer, but it'll be fine on new machines and better on touch-based systems.
 
2012-07-24 01:41:47 PM  

MaxxLarge: Plus, the sales on those horrid Windows phones continue to plummet, since the OS is unpopular...


Those phones have the highest user reviews on resale and the platform gets good reviews all around. You're talking out of your ass. Attaching them to the Win8 platform all around will make them very attractive.
 
2012-07-24 01:44:22 PM  

satanorsanta: Windows 8 reminds me of my parents first computer that had Packard Bell Navigator . When the computer started up it went to a crappy interface with big dumb buttons. Then you had to quit to DOS before reopening windows 3.1. It was really crappy when I was 9 and it is still a crappy idea now that I'm 29.


That website was almost as bad as TV Tropes. I'm back now, I'll need to be prepared next time I visit.
 
2012-07-24 01:46:14 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Zel: MaxxLarge: good-bad-good-bad.jpg

That's the idea. You liked Seven? So buy eight as we shove stupidity like iPad inspired interfaces at you.

Metro is far worse then an iPad/Android style interface (which for phones and tablets, works just fine).

[www.istartedsomething.com image 670x419]


I disagree most strongly. This can display a wealth of information at a glance - dumb icons can't, and this surpasses the usefulness of widgets in its expandability and universality.
 
2012-07-24 01:47:10 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Zel: MaxxLarge: good-bad-good-bad.jpg

That's the idea. You liked Seven? So buy eight as we shove stupidity like iPad inspired interfaces at you.

Metro is far worse then an iPad/Android style interface (which for phones and tablets, works just fine).

[www.istartedsomething.com image 670x419]


Pretty much, yeah. iPad and Android draw heavily from the WIMP paradigm that's familiar to anybody who's used a desktop computer in the last 20 years. MS's "live tile" thing just sucks.

/there's actually an experimental third-party add-on for Android that adds a full-fledged windowing system to it, thus actually making it fit WIMP
//haven't tried it yet, but very interesting
 
2012-07-24 01:53:59 PM  
Windows 8 is the second coming of Microsoft Bob.
 
2012-07-24 01:55:53 PM  

LasersHurt: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Zel: MaxxLarge: good-bad-good-bad.jpg

That's the idea. You liked Seven? So buy eight as we shove stupidity like iPad inspired interfaces at you.

Metro is far worse then an iPad/Android style interface (which for phones and tablets, works just fine).

[www.istartedsomething.com image 670x419]

I disagree most strongly. This can display a wealth of information at a glance - dumb icons can't, and this surpasses the usefulness of widgets in its expandability and universality.


I am inclined to agree, icons don't add functionality you might as well be looking at an alphabetized list of applications in the start menu rather than have icons on your desktop. If my local weather app turned red when there was a sever storm warning (like it did on my old ass blackberry and doesn't on my iphone 4s) I might click on it to read the details. Windows 8 might still be a steaming pile but there are features in the demo version that will soon be considered standard and we'll biatch if anyone takes them away.
 
2012-07-24 02:01:03 PM  

Egoy3k: LasersHurt: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Zel: MaxxLarge: good-bad-good-bad.jpg

That's the idea. You liked Seven? So buy eight as we shove stupidity like iPad inspired interfaces at you.

Metro is far worse then an iPad/Android style interface (which for phones and tablets, works just fine).

[www.istartedsomething.com image 670x419]

I disagree most strongly. This can display a wealth of information at a glance - dumb icons can't, and this surpasses the usefulness of widgets in its expandability and universality.

I am inclined to agree, icons don't add functionality you might as well be looking at an alphabetized list of applications in the start menu rather than have icons on your desktop. If my local weather app turned red when there was a sever storm warning (like it did on my old ass blackberry and doesn't on my iphone 4s) I might click on it to read the details.


headblitz.com

Or you could just look out the damn window, Zooey
 
2012-07-24 02:05:22 PM  

MaxxLarge: I get that Microsoft is trying to create a unified "look and feel" across its entire family of products. I really do.

But most people, including me, HATE the goddamned clunky, obnoxious Xbox 360 dashboard...

[www.xboxfitness.org image 425x245]

Plus, the sales on those horrid Windows phones continue to plummet, since the OS is unpopular...

[www.microsoft.com image 155x222]

And since those are two already-pushed-out interfaces using this ugly-as-sin "huge solid-color tile" motif, it STUNS me that they're persisting with such an unpopular design for their flagship product.

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 296x167]

Sorry, Microsoft. You can force-feed people all the excrement you like...But they're not ever going to suddenly decide it's delicious overnight.


Exactly! WTF are they thinking? The design is utter fail.
 
2012-07-24 02:05:34 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Or you could just look out the damn window, Zooey


Yes because smart icons are only made for weather applications and nothing else. Also if you lived in Nova Scotia you'd understand that the weather right now can quite often be very different from the weather 30 minutes from right now.
 
2012-07-24 02:10:09 PM  

Egoy3k: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Or you could just look out the damn window, Zooey

Yes because smart icons are only made for weather applications and nothing else. Also if you lived in Nova Scotia you'd understand that the weather right now can quite often be very different from the weather 30 minutes from right now.


Guess I'd also be aware of the lack of sense of humor in those parts.
 
2012-07-24 02:15:02 PM  
So:

GUI: Ad-interspersed frames based on the computer's interpretation of what you'd like to see, sized for a small touch-screen even though most people have 27"+ monitors.

Functionality: Assuming the 360 interface is similar, we're bringing back the "go through five menus to get to anything" stuff that made versions of 95 impractical, plus the "essential functions are hidden" bullshiat that makes a lot of Mac products unusable for anyone who actually knows anything about their equipment.

General feel: That's a lot of time wasted on stupid screen shift animations when 99.9999% of us prefer pressing "page down" and getting the next page.

Summary: yup, probably going to be complete shiat. Not that it matters, since the internal workings are more or less identical to 7, so even if it was OK who would use it?

Egoy3k: I am inclined to agree, icons don't add functionality you might as well be looking at an alphabetized list of applications in the start menu rather than have icons on your desktop.


Icons add the functionality of being able to order your shortcuts in two dimensions rather than one, as well as put them in a custom order rather than relying on a limited computerized ordering (alphabetization) which arbitrarily wastes your time with successive menus and scrolling.

If you need to see minute-to-minute data you can leave it on the taskbar without wasting 15% of your screen space, like programs have been doing for a decade. If you're going to waste that much screen space, why not just leave the window open?

What it comes down to in the end is control over your interface. 7 has it, 8 does not appear to.
 
2012-07-24 02:20:46 PM  
Metro looks suspiciously like a resurgence of Active Desktop which we all thought was long dead.
 
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