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(Huffington Post)   The NRA is the Enabler of Death   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 366
    More: Obvious, Bill Moyers, NRA, Andrews Air Force Base, mass shooting, second floor, TDKR, University of Colorado Hospital, Air Force One  
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2293 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Jul 2012 at 10:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-24 11:32:41 AM
I'm actually thinking about buying an AR-15 pattern rifle. Any advise on what I should buy? My budget is $1000.
 
2012-07-24 11:32:51 AM

indoorplant: [25.media.tumblr.com image 718x720]


James Holmes is a legal gun owner.
 
2012-07-24 11:32:54 AM
 
2012-07-24 11:32:54 AM

beta_plus: rufus-t-firefly: beta_plus: If only we had strict gun laws like Norway.

Where one massacre has occurred in the past few decades, as opposed to...what's our number now?

If only there was someway to adjust by population size. If only ...


And it turns out your original point was bullshiat anyway.

Gun ownership in Norway as 31.32 firearms per 100 people.

The US has 88.8 per 100.

So, our firearm massacres should be proportionally higher - not exponentially.
 
2012-07-24 11:33:16 AM

fracto73: "my position is we should check on the backgrounds of people who are trying to purchase guns


They do. It's called a NICS check and it is run by the feds.
 
2012-07-24 11:33:19 AM

rufus-t-firefly: Scerpes: El Freak: Nobody is saying this. Nobody. It's rather hard to kill dozens of people at a time with a knife, ax, baseball bat, etc, and guns are easier than building a bomb or getting chemical weapons or whatever. I'm not anti-gun ownership, but to pretend that easy availability of guns don't make it easier for nutjobs to do shiat like this is stupid.

It's pretty easy to kill a dozen people with a car...not to mention all the pollution. It's time for at least a 15 day waiting period. We should also outlaw the Prius. They're silent and can sneak up on you.

When cars are designed specifically to kill, you will have a point.


Also, last time I checked I am required to have a license to operate a car. I am also required to carry five figures worth of liability insurance, and there are strict laws regulating my use of my vehicle, and if I don't follow them, I can lose my privilege to drive it.
 
2012-07-24 11:33:46 AM

Scerpes: dlp211: Nem Wan: How about if the left gives up on gun control if the right gives up on abortion? That would be awesome.

With the exception of Lautenberg (D-NJ), and a select few others, the left has given up on gun control.

So then I can buy whatever firearms I want in California, Chicago, DC or NYC? The left hasn't given up on gun control, even if it's been relegated to the backseat for the moment.


No, it absolutely has at the Federal Level. It hasn't taken a back seat. There hasn't been any significant gun control legislation brought before congress for a vote in nearly 2 decades. Just because old laws are still in effect doesn't meant that Dems are continuing to pursue gun legislation, for the most part, they have given up on gun control and recognize it is not a winning argument. But I guess the qualifier, " a select few others" wasn't good enough for you.
 
2012-07-24 11:34:50 AM

Frank N Stein: I'm actually thinking about buying an AR-15 pattern rifle. Any advise on what I should buy? My budget is $1000.


Buy a 3d printer and make your own out of ABS. The plans are available online.

Actually...buy a 3D printer, use it to make more 3D printers and then use them to make lots of lower recievers.
 
2012-07-24 11:34:52 AM

Giltric: fracto73: "my position is we should check on the backgrounds of people who are trying to purchase guns

They do. It's called a NICS check and it is run by the feds.


Yes. The statement was in support of background checks, not pretending they don't happen.
 
2012-07-24 11:35:26 AM

Forced Perspective: Gun control is the theory that a dozen dead movie goers in a Colorado theater is morally and politically preferable to a live patron explaining to the police how James Holmes got shot.


This is actual a point that confuses me. We have virtually unrestricted gun access, so theoretically any number of these heroic fantasies should have been played out. Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting? Because I think I missed the news where patrons explained how Holmes got shot.

Or do we actually have to have forced gun carrying in order to "ensure our safety"?
 
2012-07-24 11:36:35 AM

indoorplant: [25.media.tumblr.com image 718x720]


news.bbc.co.uk

qph.cf.quoracdn.net
 
2012-07-24 11:36:42 AM

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?


bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?


bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

 
2012-07-24 11:36:52 AM

rufus-t-firefly: Scerpes: El Freak: Nobody is saying this. Nobody. It's rather hard to kill dozens of people at a time with a knife, ax, baseball bat, etc, and guns are easier than building a bomb or getting chemical weapons or whatever. I'm not anti-gun ownership, but to pretend that easy availability of guns don't make it easier for nutjobs to do shiat like this is stupid.

It's pretty easy to kill a dozen people with a car...not to mention all the pollution. It's time for at least a 15 day waiting period. We should also outlaw the Prius. They're silent and can sneak up on you.

When cars are designed specifically to kill, you will have a point.

Or, even better - maybe we should use guns for everyday activities - use one to drive nails, put a smartphone in the grip...then they'll have a use other than killing.


rufus-t-firefly: Scerpes: El Freak: Nobody is saying this. Nobody. It's rather hard to kill dozens of people at a time with a knife, ax, baseball bat, etc, and guns are easier than building a bomb or getting chemical weapons or whatever. I'm not anti-gun ownership, but to pretend that easy availability of guns don't make it easier for nutjobs to do shiat like this is stupid.

It's pretty easy to kill a dozen people with a car...not to mention all the pollution. It's time for at least a 15 day waiting period. We should also outlaw the Prius. They're silent and can sneak up on you.

When cars are designed specifically to kill, you will have a point.

Or, even better - maybe we should use guns for everyday activities - use one to drive nails, put a smartphone in the grip...then they'll have a use other than killing.


Cars aren't even designed to kill, and take more lives than firearms anyway. They're simply too dangerous for you to own.
 
2012-07-24 11:37:46 AM
I like you, Bill, but WRONG.

just look around the world at the Nations where gun ownership by citizens is illegal. they are all Totalitarian sh*tholes with no middle class. just lots of dirt poor and 1 or 2% who own everything.

u can't have a Democratic Republic without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.

you're welome.
 
2012-07-24 11:37:49 AM

gilgigamesh: I am also required to carry five figures worth of liability insurance


The cheapest way to get liability insurance for gun accidents is to join the NRA.
 
2012-07-24 11:38:17 AM

Frank N Stein: I'm actually thinking about buying an AR-15 pattern rifle. Any advise on what I should buy? My budget is $1000.


Check out Rock River Arms
 
2012-07-24 11:38:59 AM

Scerpes: Cars aren't even designed to kill, and take more lives than firearms anyway. They're simply too dangerous for you to own.


some densely populated areas don't allow cars.
 
2012-07-24 11:39:19 AM

gilgigamesh: rufus-t-firefly: Scerpes: El Freak: Nobody is saying this. Nobody. It's rather hard to kill dozens of people at a time with a knife, ax, baseball bat, etc, and guns are easier than building a bomb or getting chemical weapons or whatever. I'm not anti-gun ownership, but to pretend that easy availability of guns don't make it easier for nutjobs to do shiat like this is stupid.

It's pretty easy to kill a dozen people with a car...not to mention all the pollution. It's time for at least a 15 day waiting period. We should also outlaw the Prius. They're silent and can sneak up on you.

When cars are designed specifically to kill, you will have a point.

Also, last time I checked I am required to have a license to operate a car. I am also required to carry five figures worth of liability insurance, and there are strict laws regulating my use of my vehicle, and if I don't follow them, I can lose my privilege to drive it.


You have to pass a background check...face it, a clean background as determined by a NICS is a license to own a firearm. Some staes even make you pay in order to recieve a piece of paper...but all a physical license or firearms ID card is is revenue for the state.
It is illegal to commit a crime with a gun....ie there are regulations.
 
2012-07-24 11:39:25 AM

Tyrano Soros: As a liberal, I can safely say that if assualt rifles were banned, James Holmes would just have stocked up on shotguns and pistols, with the same deadly outcome.


Rank speculation. You can't possibly know what would have happened in your little "what if" scenario.

All we can say is what did happen: under current laws, this guy was allowed to purchase enough firepower and armor to enable him murder and maim dozens of people within 2 minutes, and probably a lot more had he chosen to do so.

Speculating about what he could have done with bombs or shotguns or rocks or whatever is less than useless. In fact it is a cheap attempt at deflection from what actually happened.
 
2012-07-24 11:39:29 AM

Giltric: fracto73: "my position is we should check on the backgrounds of people who are trying to purchase guns

They do. It's called a NICS check and it is run by the feds.


It wasn't said by Obama, that is what was funny about it.
 
2012-07-24 11:39:37 AM

gilgigamesh: rufus-t-firefly: Scerpes: El Freak: Nobody is saying this. Nobody. It's rather hard to kill dozens of people at a time with a knife, ax, baseball bat, etc, and guns are easier than building a bomb or getting chemical weapons or whatever. I'm not anti-gun ownership, but to pretend that easy availability of guns don't make it easier for nutjobs to do shiat like this is stupid.

It's pretty easy to kill a dozen people with a car...not to mention all the pollution. It's time for at least a 15 day waiting period. We should also outlaw the Prius. They're silent and can sneak up on you.

When cars are designed specifically to kill, you will have a point.

Also, last time I checked I am required to have a license to operate a car. I am also required to carry five figures worth of liability insurance, and there are strict laws regulating my use of my vehicle, and if I don't follow them, I can lose my privilege to drive it.


I'd be completely in favor of a handgun licenses that would be recognized by all states, and require minimum standards similar to driver's licenses.
 
2012-07-24 11:39:39 AM

Cletus C.: They support law-abiding gun owners, right up until the point they stop abiding laws.



well said. anyone who thinks guns, not trigger happy nuts, kill people are living in a fantasy world.
 
2012-07-24 11:39:41 AM

Linux_Yes: u can't have a Democratic Republic without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.


So, when's the citizenry going to get literate?
 
2012-07-24 11:39:51 AM

rufus-t-firefly: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?


I can't. I don't know if the police have ever done it.
 
2012-07-24 11:40:04 AM

Linux_Yes: I like you, Bill, but WRONG.

just look around the world at the Nations where gun ownership by citizens is illegal. they are all Totalitarian sh*tholes with no middle class. just lots of dirt poor and 1 or 2% who own everything.

u can't have a Democratic Republic without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.

you're welome.


SO what's our excuse then
 
2012-07-24 11:40:19 AM

Linux_Yes: I like you, Bill, but WRONG.

just look around the world at the Nations where gun ownership by citizens is illegal. they are all Totalitarian sh*tholes with no middle class. just lots of dirt poor and 1 or 2% who own everything.

u can't have a Democratic Republic without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.

you're welome.



Canada, Japan, Australia. What a bunch of sh*tholes. USA! USA! USA!
 
2012-07-24 11:40:21 AM

Linux_Yes: I like you, Bill, but WRONG.

just look around the world at the Nations where gun ownership by citizens is illegal. they are all Totalitarian sh*tholes with no middle class. just lots of dirt poor and 1 or 2% who own everything.

u can't have a Democratic Republic without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.

you're welome.


Does it have to be a choice between "no guns" and "totally unregulated access"? Isn't there a reasonable middle?
 
2012-07-24 11:40:25 AM

Headso: Scerpes: Cars aren't even designed to kill, and take more lives than firearms anyway. They're simply too dangerous for you to own.

some densely populated areas don't allow cars.


What cities have outlawed cars?
 
2012-07-24 11:41:34 AM

gilgigamesh: Tyrano Soros: As a liberal, I can safely say that if assualt rifles were banned, James Holmes would just have stocked up on shotguns and pistols, with the same deadly outcome.

Rank speculation. You can't possibly know what would have happened in your little "what if" scenario.

All we can say is what did happen: under current laws, this guy was allowed to purchase enough firepower and armor to enable him murder and maim dozens of people within 2 minutes, and probably a lot more had he chosen to do so.

Speculating about what he could have done with bombs or shotguns or rocks or whatever is less than useless. In fact it is a cheap attempt at deflection from what actually happened.


Actually it seems that his baby killing assault rifle was ineffective, plagued with jamming issues. Which is why he switched to his other arms (shotgun, pistol)

But don't let that stop yor crusade, champ
 
2012-07-24 11:41:49 AM

EyeballKid: So, when's the citizenry going to get literate?


This is a pretty good gun control thread. Which is kind of like the best smelling fart, I admit.
 
2012-07-24 11:42:03 AM

rufus-t-firefly: bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?


Mass shooting? That sounds nuanced. How many mass shootings have their been in the last 50 years?
 
2012-07-24 11:42:18 AM

rufus-t-firefly: When cars are designed specifically to kill, you will have a point.


Kind of like abortions.
 
2012-07-24 11:43:09 AM

the_foo: zappaisfrank:

[gritartisan.files.wordpress.com image 400x225]


Tell me where the Tom Tomorrow cartoon advocated gun restrictions.

I'll wait...
 
2012-07-24 11:44:13 AM

rufus-t-firefly: bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?


That's easy. There was example just a few days ago.

There is even video

Oh and then there is this but I stopped at two because I'm only going to spend 30 seconds googling for you because your lazy.
 
2012-07-24 11:44:35 AM

rufus-t-firefly: bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?


Yes

Yes

Yes


Though it's hard to tell if a shooting would have been a "mass" shooting when it was stopped.
 
2012-07-24 11:44:40 AM

Frank N Stein: I'm actually thinking about buying an AR-15 pattern rifle. Any advise on what I should buy? My budget is $1000.


Save up a little more money, like a few hundred and then you start to get into the market where AR-15s fall. I have Rock River Arms version. Lovely rifle. Luckily the price has really dropped from the "OMG Obama is going to take away all the guns the second he is elected, so lets buy at double the price" scare of 2008.
 
2012-07-24 11:45:03 AM

Linux_Yes: Scerpes: JRoo: Buy more guns gunfags.

You sound stupid.


he hasn't yet lived in a Totalitarian sh*thole where gun ownership is illegal and 1 to 2% of the population own everything and everyone else lives in shanty town tents.

you cannot have Democracy without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.


Japan says hi. As well as the UK
 
2012-07-24 11:45:46 AM

Giltric: You have to pass a background check...face it, a clean background as determined by a NICS is a license to own a firearm. Some staes even make you pay in order to recieve a piece of paper...but all a physical license or firearms ID card is is revenue for the state.
It is illegal to commit a crime with a gun....ie there are regulations.


Not if I go to a gun show or buy from a private seller.

And no, even when I have to get one, a background check is not a license. That is farking laughable. A license requires passing various tests and is subject to renewal requirements and revocation.

Also, it sounds like you are suggesting there is some comparison to regulations on operating a car. If you think the only regulation on a license to drive is "don't kill anyone", remind me to never get in a car with you.
 
2012-07-24 11:46:29 AM

EyeballKid: Linux_Yes: u can't have a Democratic Republic without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.

So, when's the citizenry going to get literate?



when we take back our "free press" from the corporate owned "news" and we start investing again in our Public schools. simple, really. but the wealthy/big business does not have any interest in that. they send their mice to private schools.
 
2012-07-24 11:47:44 AM
The NRA has one purpose: to sell as many guns as possible. To that end, they'll do anything they can to increase the paranoia level, and to make people be afraid of each other.
 
2012-07-24 11:48:47 AM

Frank N Stein: Actually it seems that his baby killing assault rifle was ineffective, plagued with jamming issues. Which is why he switched to his other arms (shotgun, pistol)

But don't let that stop yor crusade, champ


Oh, you were there? Because that is the only way I can think of that you would know what actually happened and what is bullshiat hearsay.
 
2012-07-24 11:49:40 AM

Scerpes: Headso: Scerpes: Cars aren't even designed to kill, and take more lives than firearms anyway. They're simply too dangerous for you to own.

some densely populated areas don't allow cars.

What cities have outlawed cars?


certain parts of cities have closed roads in favor of walking traffic because cars in those areas are too dangerous to the numbers of pedestrians.
 
2012-07-24 11:51:18 AM

coeyagi: Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: They support law-abiding gun owners, right up until the point they stop abiding laws.

At that point, wouldn't you say it's too late. Enabling is another form of support.

Just like according to Farq, it's apparently worse to call someone out for trolling than the act itself. That's enabling.... and I am so, so, so, so cool with that, yo.

What I'm saying, actually, is the NRA will fight to get guns into people's hands, then deny responsibility when some of those people start blasting away at humans.

Yes, beyond all logic, I was indeed defending your statement and expanding it.


It's kind of nice we don't have to disagree all the time. But you may disagree with that.
 
2012-07-24 11:51:25 AM
This witch hunt against the NRA speaks to a large issue of the progressive mindset and that is to exonerate the individual from bearing any responsibility for the tragedy.

Columbine was marilyn Manson's fault - not Kliebobld and Harris
the Ft hood shooting was a "workplace stress incident" not a mass murder
Susan Smith drowning her kids was a medical issue
The aurora shooting is the NRA's fault
The Giffords shooting was the fault of the Tea party
 
2012-07-24 11:51:47 AM

CPennypacker: Linux_Yes: I like you, Bill, but WRONG.

just look around the world at the Nations where gun ownership by citizens is illegal. they are all Totalitarian sh*tholes with no middle class. just lots of dirt poor and 1 or 2% who own everything.

u can't have a Democratic Republic without an armed citizenry and without a literate citizenry.

you're welome.

SO what's our excuse then



allowing Corporate hacks/Business to take over our "news" and allowing 20,000 lobbyist into D.C. to buy off our Legislators so they can skew our system to get what they want at our expense. start reinvesting in our public schools again, but we need rich Turds to start paying the taxes they owe and to stop sending our jobs overseas. chinese workers don't pay american taxes. also, it would be nice if the wealthy stop sending the money they "earn" here to overseas tax shelters.


America is a victim of unbridled Capitalism. you've seen the benefits of measured capitalism (with government setting and enforcing some ground rules that everyone plays by) over the years, wait until you see the dark side of unbridled capitalism. its gonn'a be a gas, man!
 
2012-07-24 11:52:18 AM

gilgigamesh: Frank N Stein: Actually it seems that his baby killing assault rifle was ineffective, plagued with jamming issues. Which is why he switched to his other arms (shotgun, pistol)

But don't let that stop yor crusade, champ

Oh, you were there? Because that is the only way I can think of that you would know what actually happened and what is bullshiat hearsay.


So now all the reports of the gun jamming is 'bullshiat hearsay'?

Nice. You are just showing how weak your arguments are.
 
2012-07-24 11:52:34 AM

gilgigamesh: Giltric: You have to pass a background check...face it, a clean background as determined by a NICS is a license to own a firearm. Some staes even make you pay in order to recieve a piece of paper...but all a physical license or firearms ID card is is revenue for the state.
It is illegal to commit a crime with a gun....ie there are regulations.

Not if I go to a gun show or buy from a private seller.

And no, even when I have to get one, a background check is not a license. That is farking laughable. A license requires passing various tests and is subject to renewal requirements and revocation.

Also, it sounds like you are suggesting there is some comparison to regulations on operating a car. If you think the only regulation on a license to drive is "don't kill anyone", remind me to never get in a car with you.


If you buy a gun at a gun show from an FFL, you still need to pass a background check. Only private sales are privy to lack of background check, and that can be limited by state law.
 
2012-07-24 11:52:53 AM

o5iiawah: This witch hunt against the NRA speaks to a large issue of the progressive mindset and that is to exonerate the individual from bearing any responsibility for the tragedy.

Columbine was marilyn Manson's fault - not Kliebobld and Harris
the Ft hood shooting was a "workplace stress incident" not a mass murder
Susan Smith drowning her kids was a medical issue
The aurora shooting is the NRA's fault
The Giffords shooting was the fault of the Tea party


Whom can I blame for that abortion of a post? Home schooling?
 
2012-07-24 11:53:28 AM

limeyfellow: Frank N Stein: I'm actually thinking about buying an AR-15 pattern rifle. Any advise on what I should buy? My budget is $1000.

Save up a little more money, like a few hundred and then you start to get into the market where AR-15s fall. I have Rock River Arms version. Lovely rifle. Luckily the price has really dropped from the "OMG Obama is going to take away all the guns the second he is elected, so lets buy at double the price" scare of 2008.


Yeah I've heard some good things about RRA. I'll have to look into it.

I'm trying to figure out if building one would be cost effective. So far I doubt it, so I'll probably just buy the complete baby killing assault rifle with the shoulder thing that goes up and hi cap assault clips ;)
 
2012-07-24 11:53:40 AM

gilgigamesh: Giltric: You have to pass a background check...face it, a clean background as determined by a NICS is a license to own a firearm. Some staes even make you pay in order to recieve a piece of paper...but all a physical license or firearms ID card is is revenue for the state.
It is illegal to commit a crime with a gun....ie there are regulations.

Not if I go to a gun show or buy from a private seller.

And no, even when I have to get one, a background check is not a license. That is farking laughable. A license requires passing various tests and is subject to renewal requirements and revocation.

Also, it sounds like you are suggesting there is some comparison to regulations on operating a car. If you think the only regulation on a license to drive is "don't kill anyone", remind me to never get in a car with you.


The test would be a criminally history....no crimnal history then you pass the test.

The dealer at a gun show will do a NICS check on you....the private seller may be breaking the law in his state.

Are you talking about buying guns through experience or based on what someones blog said?

There are more regualtions when dealing with firearms....for instance in some states when transporting to and from the range the weapon has to be disassembled and you can not stop anywhere in bewteen your home and the range. You may not even be able to bring ammo and the firearm in the same vehicle.....
 
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