EyeballKid: Fark It: Eapoe6: So, according to anti-gun people, the only people with guns should be those paid by the state to make us do stuff?

That's a lot of power to have over a population. That won't do. The anti-gun people need to rethink their position.

They're incapable of doing so, they're on emotional auto-pilot right now.

Really? I thought it was that the pro-gun people are sociopathic and unable to look past their own childish wants and fears. But, hey, you're the one willing for 12 strangers to die for your right to buy toys. I'll sleep just fine.

Case in point.

MayoSlather: Wait...who's on emotional auto-pilot? The majority of anti-gun folk like myself are saying that we shouldn't allow weapons for sale that allow for the unchecked slaughter of dozens before they have to reload so someone can tackle a would be shooter. That is emotional? Sounds pretty pragmatic.

What is your opinion on CCW and how it would have played out in Aurora, CO? Just out of curiosity.

As opposed to those that believe that the sale of these weapons should continue because in your tinfoil hat world you're going to stand up to an organized military with these pea shooters. And they are pea shooters vs a tank, plane, or helicopter. Furthermore most of these people ironically support a larger military. Let's think again who is on emotional auto pilot.

I support slashing the military. You seem to be the one who's jumping to political conclusions that people who support the 2nd Amendment are automatically right-wingers. An emotional stereotype. And tyranny comes in many forms, not just from the government. Where do you live that isn't subject to natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc? Or civil unrest?

factoryconnection: MayoSlather: I don't think we should institute a criminalization for possession of these weapons, but having them readily available for sale certainly is not helping things.

So how did banning assault weapons in the 90s affect crime? Answer: not measurably. Massacre killers are crazy; the clown in Colorado not only had a clean record but passed a background check for his research position. Without diving deep into the rights of the law-abiding, stopping a man like that from getting handguns and shotguns would be impossible. The M4 clone, with the drum feeder that falls into the category of "really; people need this?" Thank god it jammed... fairly predictable. But an M4 while scary looking is just a semi-automatic rifle.

If you want to stop massacres, a cultural change on mental illness and treatment should be the priority. They're very rare but such a shift would benefit millions with unrelated/non-violent maladies. Perhaps this killer would have headed to the University counseling department instead of Bass Pro Shops.

If you want to stop criminals from being armed, figure out how to thwart straw purchasers. That, in general, is what feeds weapons into the hands of those that cannot legally buy them.

The potential for harm is the issue not crime statistics. It's not as if people need semi-automatic weapons to live. These guns are unnecessary. The burden of proof for the need for them is on pro-gun people to prove not for anti-gun people to disprove.

MayoSlather: factoryconnection: MayoSlather: I don't think we should institute a criminalization for possession of these weapons, but having them readily available for sale certainly is not helping things.

So how did banning assault weapons in the 90s affect crime? Answer: not measurably. Massacre killers are crazy; the clown in Colorado not only had a clean record but passed a background check for his research position. Without diving deep into the rights of the law-abiding, stopping a man like that from getting handguns and shotguns would be impossible. The M4 clone, with the drum feeder that falls into the category of "really; people need this?" Thank god it jammed... fairly predictable. But an M4 while scary looking is just a semi-automatic rifle.

If you want to stop massacres, a cultural change on mental illness and treatment should be the priority. They're very rare but such a shift would benefit millions with unrelated/non-violent maladies. Perhaps this killer would have headed to the University counseling department instead of Bass Pro Shops.

If you want to stop criminals from being armed, figure out how to thwart straw purchasers. That, in general, is what feeds weapons into the hands of those that cannot legally buy them.

The potential for harm is the issue not crime statistics. It's not as if people need semi-automatic weapons to live. These guns are unnecessary. The burden of proof for the need for them is on pro-gun people to prove not for anti-gun people to disprove.

Define semi-automatic. Explain why they are unnecessary.

Explain how whatever restriction you're supporting or proposing would pass strict scrutiny.

Fark It: MayoSlather: Wait...who's on emotional auto-pilot? The majority of anti-gun folk like myself are saying that we shouldn't allow weapons for sale that allow for the unchecked slaughter of dozens before they have to reload so someone can tackle a would be shooter. That is emotional? Sounds pretty pragmatic.

What is your opinion on CCW and how it would have played out in Aurora, CO? Just out of curiosity.

As opposed to those that believe that the sale of these weapons should continue because in your tinfoil hat world you're going to stand up to an organized military with these pea shooters. And they are pea shooters vs a tank, plane, or helicopter. Furthermore most of these people ironically support a larger military. Let's think again who is on emotional auto pilot.

I support slashing the military. You seem to be the one who's jumping to political conclusions that people who support the 2nd Amendment are automatically right-wingers. An emotional stereotype. And tyranny comes in many forms, not just from the government. Where do you live that isn't subject to natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc? Or civil unrest?

Oh come now let's not play the I'm a naive babe in the woods game. It's evident in our society that the majority that supports gun rights also supports a larger military even if you personally do not.

As for your natural disaster scenarios...the last time I checked what typically happens in America is there is an outpouring of support in these situations not unchecked chaos. Yes looting does occur, but how is a revolver or a hunting rifle not enough? It's also quite a stretch down the road in fear filled "what if" -ville.

MayoSlather: Oh come now let's not play the I'm a naive babe in the woods game. It's evident in our society that the majority that supports gun rights also supports a larger military even if you personally do not.

Citation needed.

As for your natural disaster scenarios...the last time I checked what typically happens in America is there is an outpouring of support in these situations not unchecked chaos. Yes looting does occur, but how is a revolver or a hunting rifle not enough? It's also quite a stretch down the road in fear filled "what if" -ville.

The AR is one of, if not the most common hunting platform in the United States.

Fark It: MayoSlather: factoryconnection: MayoSlather: I don't think we should institute a criminalization for possession of these weapons, but having them readily available for sale certainly is not helping things.

So how did banning assault weapons in the 90s affect crime? Answer: not measurably. Massacre killers are crazy; the clown in Colorado not only had a clean record but passed a background check for his research position. Without diving deep into the rights of the law-abiding, stopping a man like that from getting handguns and shotguns would be impossible. The M4 clone, with the drum feeder that falls into the category of "really; people need this?" Thank god it jammed... fairly predictable. But an M4 while scary looking is just a semi-automatic rifle.

If you want to stop massacres, a cultural change on mental illness and treatment should be the priority. They're very rare but such a shift would benefit millions with unrelated/non-violent maladies. Perhaps this killer would have headed to the University counseling department instead of Bass Pro Shops.

If you want to stop criminals from being armed, figure out how to thwart straw purchasers. That, in general, is what feeds weapons into the hands of those that cannot legally buy them.

The potential for harm is the issue not crime statistics. It's not as if people need semi-automatic weapons to live. These guns are unnecessary. The burden of proof for the need for them is on pro-gun people to prove not for anti-gun people to disprove.

Define semi-automatic.


Semi-auto I suppose in my terms is any clip fed gun.

Explain why they are unnecessary.

Didn't I just say the burden of proof should be on pro gun people to prove why they are necessary? The logic behind this goes that my stance allows for less slaughter of human beings. This is like asking why are bazookas unnecessary? ummm because they are unnecessary.

Explain how whatever restriction you're supporting or proposing would pass strict scrutiny.

Be more specific...Scrutiny of what or whom?

Sultan Of Herf: MayoSlather: factoryconnection: MayoSlather: I don't think we should institute a criminalization for possession of these weapons, but having them readily available for sale certainly is not helping things.

So how did banning assault weapons in the 90s affect crime? Answer: not measurably. Massacre killers are crazy; the clown in Colorado not only had a clean record but passed a background check for his research position. Without diving deep into the rights of the law-abiding, stopping a man like that from getting handguns and shotguns would be impossible. The M4 clone, with the drum feeder that falls into the category of "really; people need this?" Thank god it jammed... fairly predictable. But an M4 while scary looking is just a semi-automatic rifle.

If you want to stop massacres, a cultural change on mental illness and treatment should be the priority. They're very rare but such a shift would benefit millions with unrelated/non-violent maladies. Perhaps this killer would have headed to the University counseling department instead of Bass Pro Shops.

If you want to stop criminals from being armed, figure out how to thwart straw purchasers. That, in general, is what feeds weapons into the hands of those that cannot legally buy them.

The potential for harm is the issue not crime statistics. It's not as if people need semi-automatic weapons to live. These guns are unnecessary. The burden of proof for the need for them is on pro-gun people to prove not for anti-gun people to disprove.

Cars are unnecessary. Cell phones are Unnecessary. Cars are deadly, even more so when combined with cell phones. To be completely honest Im far less scared of the average gun owner than I am of you yapping on your iproduct while driving your Prius.

Poor logic. I'm not going to type out a long winded diatribe about how this is a ridiculous argument...just know that it is.

MayoSlather: Semi-auto I suppose in my terms is any clip fed gun.

So, you have no idea what you're talking about then?

Be more specific...Scrutiny of what or whom?

Strict Scrutiny is a legal standard that courts apply to laws that affect Constitutional rights.

MayoSlather: Poor logic.

Says the guy who wants to ban any "clip fed gun."

Fark It: MayoSlather: Oh come now let's not play the I'm a naive babe in the woods game. It's evident in our society that the majority that supports gun rights also supports a larger military even if you personally do not.

Citation needed.

As for your natural disaster scenarios...the last time I checked what typically happens in America is there is an outpouring of support in these situations not unchecked chaos. Yes looting does occur, but how is a revolver or a hunting rifle not enough? It's also quite a stretch down the road in fear filled "what if" -ville.

The AR is one of, if not the most common hunting platform in the United States.

Citation needed? really?

And what exactly are people hunting that requires 10+ rounds of ammo fired in rapid succession being pumped into it to kill it? Unnecessary.

Fark It: MayoSlather: Poor logic.

Says the guy who wants to ban any "clip fed gun."

You sir are a master of debate. Continue, I'm enthralled.

MayoSlather: Fark It: MayoSlather: Poor logic.

Says the guy who wants to ban any "clip fed gun."

You sir are a master of debate. Continue, I'm enthralled.

"Debate" assumes that two parties are equally informed. An argument is what you have with someone who is guided by their emotions and/or ignorance.

It's hard to debate guns and Constitutional rights with someone who can't define a "semi automatic weapon" and doesn't know what strict scrutiny is.

So how is he wrong?

MayoSlather: The potential for harm is the issue not crime statistics. It's not as if people need semi-automatic weapons to live. These guns are unnecessary. The burden of proof for the need for them is on pro-gun people to prove not for anti-gun people to disprove.

Crime has a measurable and widespread impact on our lives, which is why I asked its effect on the crime rate. Applying your restrictions in order to stop massacres like this is dubious logic, because (as the police found in his apartment) the unhinged lunatic can just resort to making bombs in a one-off attempt to murder a bunch of strangers. Like I said, without punishing the vast majority of gun owners for the sins of an extreme few, you can't take death out of the hands of the motivated psychopath.

Do I agree that there is little use for high-capacity magazines other than having a lot of fun at the range? Yes, but then who am I to say what everyone's home-defense needs are. Even in my safe, white-bread world I know several people that have had to brandish or even use their firearms to defend their homes.

Why are bazookas outlawed? Because they're for destroying military vehicles, not any practical hunting, sport, or personal defense. Actually, like machine guns and full-auto rifles, you may be able to get a bazooka with a FFL and tax stamp; I don't know. I don't even own a firearm.

BroVinny: Tank Girl sucked.


True, but "Surviving the Game" was great.

rudemix: The US will never do away with anything that is a commodity again, as long as they can exercise control over its profit. Drugs, too hard to control. Guns, cigarettes, booze, oxy, etc are controllable. These things all lead to dead citizens in the wrong, or incapable hands. Do you think a country that discusses outlawing costumes but not cigs is going to do away with any profitable industry? We are less citizens at this point and more consumers and that is how we are treated. They need us working on, and consuming, products to keep the structure as it is in place.


So let me get this straight.....drugs are hard to control, but booze is controllable?

Ever heard of Prohibition?

Oh....and let me take this opportunity to recommend "Boardwalk Empire".

MayoSlather: Fark It: MayoSlather: Oh come now let's not play the I'm a naive babe in the woods game. It's evident in our society that the majority that supports gun rights also supports a larger military even if you personally do not.

Citation needed.

As for your natural disaster scenarios...the last time I checked what typically happens in America is there is an outpouring of support in these situations not unchecked chaos. Yes looting does occur, but how is a revolver or a hunting rifle not enough? It's also quite a stretch down the road in fear filled "what if" -ville.

The AR is one of, if not the most common hunting platform in the United States.

Citation needed? really?

And what exactly are people hunting that requires 10+ rounds of ammo fired in rapid succession being pumped into it to kill it? Unnecessary.

Teddy Roosevelt qualifies... just sayin'.

The guy in Aurora rigged his apartment to blow up, but his neighbors were really lucky that nobody barged in there like a retard.

He could easily have blown up the theater, found other means to commit mass murder that didn't involve guns. He planned it out deliberately, and did it "well".

It's completely stupid to think that a ban on "military assault weapons (OMFG THINK OF TEH CHILDRENS)" would have stopped him from killing a bunch of people. People that want to break your laws find a way to get around your dumb laws.