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(Times of Israel)   Actual headline: '@BBC, f*** you, a-holes. #suckit'   (blogs.timesofisrael.com) divider line 243
    More: Amusing, Mark Regev, Bar Refaeli, stand-up comedy, Donkey Kong, journalistic standards, Deep Throat, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Olympic Village  
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21390 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2012 at 1:14 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-24 01:15:53 PM  
Ooh, they changed it. Now it says "BBC, I'm the capital of your mom"
 
2012-07-24 01:16:58 PM  
The BBC has been penalized before for an anti-Israel bias. Some things never change.
 
2012-07-24 01:17:13 PM  
Hmmm. Well, the Knesset is located in Jerusalem. Say what you will about the legality of the land usage/grab, but Israel is a real country and that is where they run their national government out of.
 
2012-07-24 01:17:34 PM  
whos the hottie in the yellow shiaty?
 
2012-07-24 01:17:48 PM  
Still better than CNN.
 
2012-07-24 01:17:56 PM  
DUDE! O_O
 
2012-07-24 01:18:12 PM  
Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else. This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war
 
2012-07-24 01:18:32 PM  

Delawheredad: The BBC has been penalized before for an anti-Israel bias. Some things never change.


BBC: "Tell you what, we'll list the capital where you say it is if you agree to stop listing the terrorists who bombed the King David hotel as national heroes."
 
2012-07-24 01:18:41 PM  
Jesus, I understand your frustration but could you tone down the butthurt to about a 7?
 
2012-07-24 01:19:24 PM  
That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.
 
2012-07-24 01:19:30 PM  

Magorn: Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else. This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war


Those are really more of guidelines then rules.
 
2012-07-24 01:20:02 PM  
Someone's mad.
 
2012-07-24 01:20:09 PM  
Thank you google image search for finding the name of the chick in the picture...Bar Refaeli. Wow.
 
2012-07-24 01:20:31 PM  
t2.gstatic.com

I get it, the writer claims to be a comedian so presumably that was supposed to be funny somehow.
 
2012-07-24 01:20:51 PM  
Hezbollah just wrote in to say there is no capital of Israel in fact there is no such country as Israel then Egypt seconded the motion.
 
2012-07-24 01:20:53 PM  

Magorn: Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else. This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war


Then why did East Germany keep their capital in Berlin?
 
2012-07-24 01:21:08 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.


Palestianian Authority? Shouldn't that be "Jordan?" I thought that's who they took it from way back when.
 
2012-07-24 01:21:42 PM  

xsive: whos the hottie in the yellow shiaty?


Bar Refaeli

RTFA.
 
2012-07-24 01:21:56 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Hmmm. Well, the Knesset is located in Jerusalem. Say what you will about the legality of the land usage/grab, but Israel is a real country and that is where they run their national government out of.


OK, so where's the capital of Tibet then?
 
2012-07-24 01:22:08 PM  
Is this like that sea that doesn't have a name because it's politically incorrect to pick a side?
 
2012-07-24 01:22:15 PM  
this is an outrage.jpg
 
2012-07-24 01:22:28 PM  

Magorn: Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else. This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war


Your example would make more sense if East Germany's capital had not been East Berlin.
 
2012-07-24 01:22:55 PM  

Flakeloaf: Satanic_Hamster: Hmmm. Well, the Knesset is located in Jerusalem. Say what you will about the legality of the land usage/grab, but Israel is a real country and that is where they run their national government out of.

OK, so where's the capital of Tibet then?


Beijing
 
2012-07-24 01:22:57 PM  

monoski: Hezbollah just wrote in to say there is no capital of Israel in fact there is no such country as Israel then Egypt seconded the motion.


And Algeria threatened a boycott because the Shared Belief Center didn't face Mecca
 
2012-07-24 01:23:06 PM  

azazyel: Thank you google image search for finding the name of the chick in the picture...Bar Refaeli. Wow.


Thanks Azazyel for finding this... much more important than the article :)


/ignore earlier comment with dumb auto-correct of "shirt"
 
2012-07-24 01:23:31 PM  
For a nation virtually incapable of standing on its own feet, Israel sure talks a lot of smack.
 
2012-07-24 01:23:32 PM  

Carousel Beast: Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.

Palestianian Authority? Shouldn't that be "Jordan?" I thought that's who they took it from way back when.


Jordan doesn't want it anymore.
 
2012-07-24 01:24:12 PM  
Who farking cares?
 
Heb
2012-07-24 01:24:38 PM  

Delawheredad: The BBC has been penalized before for an anti-Israel bias. Some things never change.


The BBC has also been criticised for its pro-Israel bias. Must be doing something right.

As for the article, what a hissy-fit. You want international recognition for a "capital" that is internationally recognised as being occupied territory? Good luck with that.
 
2012-07-24 01:24:40 PM  

xsive: azazyel: Thank you google image search for finding the name of the chick in the picture...Bar Refaeli. Wow.

Thanks Azazyel for finding this... much more important than the article :)


/ignore earlier comment with dumb auto-correct of "shirt"


This thread is now a slightly creepy Bar Refaeli shrine. Go farkers, go!
 
2012-07-24 01:24:53 PM  
This guy needs to cry more if he wants to get his own way.
 
2012-07-24 01:25:14 PM  

ph0rk: For a nation virtually incapable of standing on its own feet, Israel sure talks a lot of smack.


I think Israel would do just fine for itself without the restraints of the UN.

/shudder
 
2012-07-24 01:25:47 PM  
I'm pretty sure it doesn't take over 140 characters to say "@BBC, f*** you, a-holes. #suckit."

www.the-nextlevel.com


/Hot like a madman.
 
2012-07-24 01:27:23 PM  

Delawheredad: The BBC has been penalized before for an anti-Israel bias.


When, how and by who were they penalized?
 
2012-07-24 01:28:19 PM  
Almost no one recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Author is a dolt.
 
2012-07-24 01:28:24 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.


I woudl be fine with this rational if they didn't list Palestine's capital as East Jerusalem (has sicne changed it to "intended seat of govt").
 
2012-07-24 01:29:07 PM  
Painfully unfunny and forced humor over a minor slight. Prove this was less an error by some net geek and focused anti-semitism you idiot, otherwise you are no less a douche than you claim the BBC to be.
 
2012-07-24 01:29:38 PM  
I can easily see how the BBC could arrive at such a conclusion. In purely economic terms the American Congress in Washington funds Israel, so they can't really be sure whether the Israeli capital is Jerusalem or Washington DC. They are just being cautious here.
 
2012-07-24 01:30:47 PM  

El Pachuco: [t2.gstatic.com image 105x120]

I get it, the writer claims to be a comedian so presumably that was supposed to be funny somehow.

"Is their Deep Throat a four-year-old drunk kid in gan?"


Come on, that sh*t is gold right there.
 
2012-07-24 01:31:01 PM  

rudemix: Painfully unfunny and forced humor over a minor slight. Prove this was less an error by some net geek and focused anti-semitism you idiot, otherwise you are no less a douche than you claim the BBC to be.


But he's pro-Israel, so that makes the d-baggery all right.
 
2012-07-24 01:31:12 PM  
Hahaha there is no butthurt like Israeli jew butthurt
 
2012-07-24 01:31:12 PM  
Journalism is a serious field where the best reporters pay their dues for years to climb to the top of their profession.

Now THAT'S funny!
 
2012-07-24 01:31:43 PM  
CIA World Factbook:

Capital: name: Jerusalem

note: Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950, but the US, like all other countries, maintains its Embassy in Tel Aviv
 
2012-07-24 01:32:07 PM  
cdn.timesofisrael.com

Sorry, what was that? I was distracted.
 
2012-07-24 01:33:01 PM  

ph0rk: focused anti-semitism


Isn't Israel largely made up of non-semetic Jews anyway? They need to find a more appropriate descriptor, given that Israel is the one proactively oppressing a group of semites in their territories.
 
2012-07-24 01:33:06 PM  
The amount of butthurt was excessive for the given situation.
 
2012-07-24 01:33:06 PM  
They'll get over it.
 
2012-07-24 01:34:50 PM  

boogie_down: [cdn.timesofisrael.com image 470x320]

Sorry, what was that? I was distracted.


my thoughts perzackly. meh meh meh blah blah blah 0.o flowerchild 0.o meh meh meh blah blah blah
 
2012-07-24 01:35:32 PM  

Flakeloaf: Satanic_Hamster: Hmmm. Well, the Knesset is located in Jerusalem. Say what you will about the legality of the land usage/grab, but Israel is a real country and that is where they run their national government out of.

OK, so where's the capital of Tibet then?


Tibet is not a country.
 
2012-07-24 01:35:40 PM  
I don't think I am alone when I say we should just ignore the article and make this a Bar Refaeli thread.

cdn.caughtoffside.com
www.vidigy.com
www.mini-fondos.com
 
2012-07-24 01:36:06 PM  
img.chan4chan.com
 
2012-07-24 01:36:27 PM  

Flakeloaf: Satanic_Hamster: Hmmm. Well, the Knesset is located in Jerusalem. Say what you will about the legality of the land usage/grab, but Israel is a real country and that is where they run their national government out of.

OK, so where's the capital of Tibet then?


Technically, there isn't one. There is, however, a government in exile based out of northern India.

/During WWII, most of the European governments continued to exist in exile... at the Savoy and Ritz hotels.
//honestly not joking
 
2012-07-24 01:37:53 PM  
i.cdn.turner.com



Here's a good slideshow...Link
 
2012-07-24 01:38:12 PM  

Fabric_Man: Then why did East Germany keep their capital in Berlin?


Because Russians are assholes and East Germany was a puppet state of the USSR, who probably thought it made things look more legit if they kept the capital in Berlin.
 
2012-07-24 01:38:51 PM  

Shatner's Bassoon: Delawheredad: The BBC has been penalized before for an anti-Israel bias.

When, how and by who were they penalized?


They were fined and banned from any journalistic awards such as the Pulitzer for 5 years.

/no idea if the Pulitzer is American only
//too lazy to wiki
 
2012-07-24 01:38:54 PM  

imtheonlylp: boogie_down: [cdn.timesofisrael.com image 470x320]

Sorry, what was that? I was distracted.

my thoughts perzackly. meh meh meh blah blah blah 0.o flowerchild 0.o meh meh meh blah blah blah

www.mbuzzy.com
"Yah, you knows them granola gahrls know how to pahrty"
 
2012-07-24 01:39:45 PM  

crab66: Fabric_Man: Then why did East Germany keep their capital in Berlin?

Because Russians are assholes and East Germany was a puppet state of the USSR, who probably thought it made things look more legit if they kept the capital in Berlin.


The USSR totally missed out by not annexing that puppet state sooner - I mean they could totally afford to buy a courthouse outright.
 
2012-07-24 01:40:36 PM  

Shatner's Bassoon: Delawheredad: The BBC has been penalized before for an anti-Israel bias.

When, how and by who were they penalized?


Line judge gave them a red card in the second half.
 
2012-07-24 01:41:22 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.


Let me translate that for you

The UN is a bunch of idiots whom the Israel hating nations have wrapped around their little finger and as such they're going to continue being petty about it. The 'final status' of Jerusalem pending 'future negotiations' basically means 'After the zionists have all been driven in to sea'. Israel has been at the negotiating table multiple times and its never worked out for one reason and one reason only: The people they are attempting to negotiate with want every Jew in Israel dead or removed and Israel consigned to the scrap heap of history. Where do you begin negotiating with such people? Do you say... "Well meet you half way, can you maybe only kill half of us or perhaps just severely beat us?" and try to work it out?

The only arseholes who need to learn how to negotiate are the ones that are suppose to be on the other side of the table from Israel.
 
2012-07-24 01:41:23 PM  
I don't care what anyone says, this is the best news article written in the last 2 years.
 
2012-07-24 01:41:41 PM  
Turns out that in the spirit of the Olympic motto, "Faster, Higher, Stronger," the BBC has decided to change its journalistic standards to "Lower, Dumber, and Jesus Christ, who wrote this crap?"

So it's like if Ric Romero and the Florida tag had a bastard child?

That's an improvement for the BBC.
 
2012-07-24 01:42:49 PM  

PowerSlacker:
Your example would make more sense if East Germany's capital had not been East Berlin.


That wasn't internationally recognised either. As the Wiki Of A Million Lies says

"East Germany and the Eastern Bloc diplomatically recognised East Berlin as the capital city of the German Democratic Republic, but the Western Allies disputed said recognition, considering the entire city of Berlin an occupied territory governed by the martial law of the Allied Control Council. According to Margarete Feinstein, East Berlin's status as the capital was largely unrecognized by the West and most Third World countries."

Incidentally, East Germany refused to recognise the state of Israel.
 
2012-07-24 01:42:50 PM  
I just looked through the BBC Olympic site he is complaining about......I don't see the capitals of any countries listed under their profiles...

WTF is he talking about?
 
2012-07-24 01:44:05 PM  
Magorn

Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

They did that already. In their eagerness to spread their anti-Israel agenda, they decided to completely ignore reality.

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else.

Luckily, that's not the case with Jerusalem. And it's funny how the Arab states didn't respect the sacrosanctity of borders when they invaded Israel at its creation, then whined about the results of that and later wars they started after the fact. Or that the pre-1967 "border" was just a cease-fire line in the first place.

And in fact the Knesset and the other Israeli government offices are within the pre-1967 Green Line anyway. But the Magorns and BBCs of the world know better than to let facts, logic, or fairness get in the way when there's Israel-bashing to do!

This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war

Complete and utter nonsense.

Berlin had been the capital of united Germany, not West Germany. The capital of West Germany was never Berlin. And they could have put their capital in West Berlin if they had chosen to. The reason they didn't was practicality and security. West Berlin was a tiny enclave completely surrounded by hostile territory and it was miles from the rest of West Germany. It had nothing to do with "legality".

Anyway, for those of you interested in correctives to the Bigoted Broadcasting Company's BS can take a gander at http://honestreporting.com/ , and to find just for the BBC there's http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=12 .
 
2012-07-24 01:45:27 PM  

Teufelaffe: I don't think I am alone when I say we should just ignore the article and make this a Bar Refaeli thread.


Here's a nice video of her gets very nice at about 35sec.
 
2012-07-24 01:47:03 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Ooh, they changed it. Now it says "BBC, I'm the capital of your mom"


http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/bbc-f-you-a-holes-suckit/
 
2012-07-24 01:50:34 PM  

Israeli Geography:

Serious.

@#*&ing.

Business.
 
2012-07-24 01:51:20 PM  
It's news to that part of Jerusalem which had never been "disputed" territory that is is "disputed". The reason there is an "East" Jerusalem and a "West" Jerusalem is to delineate between the "occupied" and "unoccupied" parts.

The fact that Israel put its capital in that part which isn't really in dispute should set this stupid debate to rest. It may not be a smart idea to put the capital on a contested border, but that's big talk from a guy whose capital is right next to the Atlantic Ocean.

Oh, and as someone pointed out, it's tough to negotiate the status of Jerusalem "at a later date" when even getting to the negotiating table usually requires them to set aside the discussion of what happens to Jerusalem. Sometime in the last 60 years, someone decided that a divided Jerusalem was a better status quo than actually hammering out a decision.

But yeah, Knesset's in Jerusalem and apart from embassies, all official business happens there.

// also, the UN HQ is in NY - does that make NY the "seat of government" of the US?
// after all, the world's embassy is there
 
2012-07-24 01:54:44 PM  

Teufelaffe: I don't think I am alone when I say we should just ignore the article and make this a Bar Refaeli thread.


nope... not often that I can say that a woman look darn close to physical and beauty perfection... this is one.
 
2012-07-24 01:55:44 PM  
Schmuck.
 
2012-07-24 01:57:12 PM  

El Pachuco: [t2.gstatic.com image 105x120]

I get it, the writer claims to be a comedian so presumably that was supposed to be funny somehow.



He is a very funny comedian in Israel; I quite enjoy his humor.

rudemix: Painfully unfunny and forced humor over a minor slight. Prove this was less an error by some net geek and focused anti-semitism you idiot, otherwise you are no less a douche than you claim the BBC to be.



Keep up with news, this has been an ongoing scandal, they originally didn't have any capital listed for Israel and then did this shiat; now the Prime Minsiter's office has sent them a letter demanding it changed to Jerusalem as the Capital and they have so far refused.

varmitydog: I can easily see how the BBC could arrive at such a conclusion. In purely economic terms the American Congress in Washington funds Israel, so they can't really be sure whether the Israeli capital is Jerusalem or Washington DC. They are just being cautious here.



Do me a favor... get your facts straight you clot pole before you open your ignorant mouth. Israel receives only a small percentage of their national income from the US. The US is the one that insist on giving Israel money; Israel hasn't even spent most of the money the US has given it in the past few years. Israel is self sufficient and able to fully protect itself. The majority of new tech is being created in Israel; all the nice toys you have wouldn't be here if it weren't for Israel.

On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it; write your strongly worded letters and write your angry blog post about it; it won't change anything. Israel is here to stay, get used to it; the 2000 years of deeply seated antisemitism based on religious intolerance (yes even in you agnostics and atheist, you have been contaminated by 2000+ years of Christian hate, you may not realize it but your biased against Israel is actually rooted in a social norm of deep seated accepted hate of the Jewish people) can no longer hold back the Hebrew People.
 
2012-07-24 01:57:30 PM  

PonceAlyosha: ph0rk: focused anti-semitism

Isn't Israel largely made up of non-semetic Jews anyway? They need to find a more appropriate descriptor, given that Israel is the one proactively oppressing a group of semites in their territories.


In the sense it's being used here, all Jews are Semitic people. In the broadest sense, Semitic refers to a fairly large group of languages of middle eastern origin and the various ethnic groups who spoke those languages and their descendents. So, in that sense, all Jews and all Arabs are Semitic peoples, even if individually they don't happen to speak Hebrew or Arabic or whatever anymore.

In the more narrow, and more commonly used, sense, Semitic or anti-Semitic is pretty much exclusively associated with Jews. IIRC, it dates back to the 1800s (Germany, I think) in an attempt to make anti-Jewish prejudice have a more scientific sounding basis (eg. the Aryan races are superior to the Semitic races).

Anyway, it's a potentially confusing word.

Perhaps you were confusing Semitic with a Jewish ethnic division like Sephardi.
 
2012-07-24 01:58:14 PM  

PowerSlacker: Magorn: Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else. This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war

Your example would make more sense if East Germany's capital had not been East Berlin.


West Germany wasn't formally in charge of the administration of West Berlin--France, the UK and the US shared that responsibility. It was for this reason that West Germany never stationed troops in West Berlin in the Cold War and NATO troops in West Berlin still earned WW2 Occupation Medals through 1990.

East Berlin was claimed as a capital of East Germany, but this was disputes by NATO, if I'm not mistaken.

Wikipedia has a decent summary of the legal nuances of Berlin in the Cold War...
 
2012-07-24 01:59:19 PM  

Dr Dreidel:
// also, the UN HQ is in NY - does that make NY the "seat of government" of the US?
// after all, the world's embassy is there


Hey, I think you might have drooled a little bit on your yarmulke while you were making this completely stupid point.
 
2012-07-24 01:59:28 PM  

Eshkar: On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it; write your strongly worded letters and write your angry blog post about it; it won't change anything. Israel is here to stay, get used to it; the 2000 years of deeply seated antisemitism based on religious intolerance (yes even in you agnostics and atheist, you have been contaminated by 2000+ years of Christian hate, you may not realize it but your biased against Israel is actually rooted in a social norm of deep seated accepted hate of the Jewish people) can no longer hold back the Hebrew People.


11/10
 
2012-07-24 02:00:34 PM  

Eshkar: On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel,


Does that mean they'll stop evicting Palestinians from their homes then?
 
2012-07-24 02:01:21 PM  

xsive: whos the hottie in the yellow shiaty?


Am I that old or is that not obvious? I didn't need to read anything or do any research. I looked at the picture and recognized her instantly. She was on the cover of Sports Illustrated not too long ago.
 
2012-07-24 02:01:46 PM  

grotto_man: Magorn

Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

They did that already. In their eagerness to spread their anti-Israel agenda, they decided to completely ignore reality.

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else.

Luckily, that's not the case with Jerusalem. And it's funny how the Arab states didn't respect the sacrosanctity of borders when they invaded Israel at its creation, then whined about the results of that and later wars they started after the fact. Or that the pre-1967 "border" was just a cease-fire line in the first place.

And in fact the Knesset and the other Israeli government offices are within the pre-1967 Green Line anyway. But the Magorns and BBCs of the world know better than to let facts, logic, or fairness get in the way when there's Israel-bashing to do!

This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war

Complete and utter nonsense.

Berlin had been the capital of united Germany, not West Germany. The capital of West Germany was never Berlin. And they could have put their capital in West Berlin if they had chosen to. The reason they didn't was practicality and security. West Berlin was a tiny enclave completely surrounded by hostile territory and it was miles from the rest of West Germany. It had nothing to do with "legality".

Anyway, for those of you interested in correctives to the Bigoted Broadcasting Company's BS can take a gander at http://honestreporting.com/ , and to find just for the BBC there's http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=12 .


Since they didn't Build it, the only claim that Israel ever had to Jerusalem was by right of conquest in the regin of David. Any title claim that gave them on the city was susbequently extinguished by an equally valid "rigth of Conquest" claim from : The Babylonians, The Assyrians, The Macedonians, The Romans, the Arabs, The Crusaders, the Turks and the British. Now you could argue they re-acquired title in 1967 in the same way, but unfortunately for ISrael, the valdity of territorial aquistiton by conquest was more or less extinguished in international law after WWII and under the articles that created the UN (and since the UN is also the sole source of validity of the existence of an Israeli state at all...)

Ergo Israel, under international law has no valid legal claim to Jerusalem, only a sentimental one. This is one of the reasons they've tried so very hard to ethnically cleanse East Jerusalem so they can claim the city is basically all Israeli anyway so why not "recognize the reality on the ground" -more or less the same argument they use everytime they steal more land for their "settlers"
 
2012-07-24 02:03:22 PM  

randomjsa: its never worked out for one reason and one reason only


Oversimplify much? Israel's idea of negotiation has been to say "No" and STFU to just about any proposal that doesn't give their spoiled asses everything they want.

My solution? Evacuate the damn "Holy Land" and turn into a toxic and nuclear waste dump. That or turn Jerusalem over to Disney for Invisible Friends Land.
 
2012-07-24 02:03:31 PM  

Magorn: Would he have been happier if they listed Tel Aviv?

One of the few rules of nations is that you aren;t allowed to claim a city as a capital that doesn;t rightfully belong to you or half-belongs to someone else. This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war


Yet they claimed the capitol of Palestine as Jerusalem.

Also with your little East/West Germany analogy maybe you heard of the "Berlin airlift"? There were some important geographic differences that made the moving of the capitol a requirement.
 
2012-07-24 02:04:15 PM  

Magorn: rgo Israel, under international law has no valid legal claim to Jerusalem, only a sentimental one. This is one of the reasons they've tried so very hard to ethnically cleanse East Jerusalem so they can claim the city is basically all Israeli anyway so why not "recognize the reality on the ground" -more or less the same argument they use everytime they steal more land for their "settlers"


Yeah, I mean I believe Israel has the right to exist as much as any other country but it's dickish things like this (ie: evicting Palestinians from their homes and then bulldozing their homes for yet another settlement) which make it really hard for me to defend them when they keep doing dickish things like that.

Is this a reasonable position to take?
 
2012-07-24 02:05:00 PM  

johnnyq: PonceAlyosha: ph0rk: focused anti-semitism

Isn't Israel largely made up of non-semetic Jews anyway? They need to find a more appropriate descriptor, given that Israel is the one proactively oppressing a group of semites in their territories.

In the sense it's being used here, all Jews are Semitic people. In the broadest sense, Semitic refers to a fairly large group of languages of middle eastern origin and the various ethnic groups who spoke those languages and their descendents. So, in that sense, all Jews and all Arabs are Semitic peoples, even if individually they don't happen to speak Hebrew or Arabic or whatever anymore.

In the more narrow, and more commonly used, sense, Semitic or anti-Semitic is pretty much exclusively associated with Jews. IIRC, it dates back to the 1800s (Germany, I think) in an attempt to make anti-Jewish prejudice have a more scientific sounding basis (eg. the Aryan races are superior to the Semitic races).

Anyway, it's a potentially confusing word.

Perhaps you were confusing Semitic with a Jewish ethnic division like Sephardi.


If everyone just lumped Israelis in with the rest of the middle eastern/brown people (like they should) the world would be a simpler and better place.
 
2012-07-24 02:05:07 PM  

Teufelaffe: I don't think I am alone when I say we should just ignore the article and make this a Bar Refaeli thread.

[cdn.caughtoffside.com image 450x680]
[www.vidigy.com image 554x993]
[www.mini-fondos.com image 320x480]


If anyone wants me, I'll be in the Bar.
 
2012-07-24 02:05:49 PM  
Blogger whining about BBC comes off like a Ritalin addicted 13 year old complaining about people dissing dub step.
 
2012-07-24 02:06:21 PM  
Stop trying to be funny. It's not working.
 
2012-07-24 02:06:24 PM  
fark Israel. fark them right in their tuches.
 
2012-07-24 02:08:08 PM  

liam76: Yet they claimed the capitol of Palestine as Jerusalem.


From the BBC Olympic website:

Palestine: Intended seat of government: East Jerusalem. Ramallah serves as administrative capital.

Israel: Seat of government: Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv.

OH MY FARKING GOD THE BBC IS SO ANTI-SEMETIC!!!11111111111!!!!
 
2012-07-24 02:09:28 PM  
Hmm;

Olympics - no one cares.

Israel - no one cares.

My conclusion; Get a life you whiny little puke.
 
2012-07-24 02:10:47 PM  

Eshkar: On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it; write your strongly worded letters and write your angry blog post about it; it won't change anything. Israel is here to stay, get used to it; the 2000 years of deeply seated antisemitism based on religious intolerance (yes even in you agnostics and atheist, you have been contaminated by 2000+ years of Christian hate, you may not realize it but your biased against Israel is actually rooted in a social norm of deep seated accepted hate of the Jewish people) can no longer hold back the Hebrew People.


Interesting, so when I didn't like South Africa it was because of my Anti-Hebrew bias? Because creating fictionally independent areas and then treating the residents as foreign workers without rights was exactly what South Africa did... and was Israel is doing. Want to end this valid criticism of your apartheid policy? Stop stalling for time and allow for the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state with real territorial integrity. But that won't happen. Israel will continue to stall, continue to kneel out to clock, continue to expand illegal settlements and allow these fake-nation refugee camps without jobs or security and subject to illegal collective punishment at the hands of the IDF to be the future for Arabs under Israeli rule.
 
2012-07-24 02:11:15 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Dr Dreidel:
// also, the UN HQ is in NY - does that make NY the "seat of government" of the US?
// after all, the world's embassy is there

Hey, I think you might have drooled a little bit on your yarmulke while you were making this completely stupid point.


I think I may have gotten the point backwards, but that's no reason to be borderline anti-Semitic about it. Have a nice piece chick'n, you'll feel better. Maybe some gribnes with? And a bissel coffee?

// also, Esti Ginsburg > Bar Refaeli
// civic duty style points FTW
 
2012-07-24 02:11:23 PM  

Magorn: Now you could argue they re-acquired title in 1967 in the same way, but unfortunately for ISrael, the valdity of territorial aquistiton by conquest was more or less extinguished in international law after WWII and under the articles that created the UN (and since the UN is also the sole source of validity of the existence of an Israeli state at all...)

Ergo Israel, under international law has no valid legal claim to Jerusalem, only a sentimental one. This is one of the reasons they've tried so very hard to ethnically cleanse East Jerusalem so they can claim the city is basically all Israeli anyway so why not "recognize the reality on the ground" -more or less the same argument they use everytime they steal more land for their "settlers


You do realize the part of Jerusalem that Israel has their seat of govt in is on the Pre-67 land, right? So yes they do have legal right to claim it as their capitol.
 
2012-07-24 02:12:16 PM  

hitlersbrain: Hmm;

Olympics - no one cares.

Israel - no one cares.

My conclusion; Get a life you whiny little puke.


My guess is that it's a continuation of the butthurt over the fact that the BBC is not a constant cheerleader for Israel compared to it's competitors in the US.
 
2012-07-24 02:16:00 PM  

Mrtraveler01: liam76: Yet they claimed the capitol of Palestine as Jerusalem.

From the BBC Olympic website:

Palestine: Intended seat of government: East Jerusalem. Ramallah serves as administrative capital.

Israel: Seat of government: Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv.

OH MY FARKING GOD THE BBC IS SO ANTI-SEMETIC!!!11111111111!!!!


Notice the past tense?



XveryYpettyZ: Interesting, so when I didn't like South Africa it was because of my Anti-Hebrew bias? Because creating fictionally independent areas and then treating the residents as foreign workers without rights was exactly what South Africa did... and was Israel is doing.


Really that is what SA did? I thought they decided, based on race, that there were four difference classes of people who had different rightd based on that classification.


XveryYpettyZ: But that won't happen.


Probably won't anytime soon. Mostly because when they pulled out of Gaza it was used to attack them.

I think they shoudl get out of the West bank, but I recognize how politically difficult that is after what happened in Gaza.
 
2012-07-24 02:16:12 PM  
Eskar: Do me a favor... get your facts straight you clot pole before you open your ignorant mouth. Israel receives only a small percentage of their national income from the US. The US is the one that insist on giving Israel money; Israel hasn't even spent most of the money the US has given it in the past few years. Israel is self sufficient and able to fully protect itself. The majority of new tech is being created in Israel; all the nice toys you have wouldn't be here if it weren't for Israel.

Aye, why don't you take your Israeli propaganda and shove it straight up your APAIC ass, eh?
Israel would not exist without the United States of America propping it up--it is most decidedly NOT the other way around.
And claiming that our despicable US Congress is just itching to give Israel money isn't exactly a true statement either, not when you consider that the Jewish lobby has been allowed to get away with essentially blackmailing them by the corrupt US court system.

I am an American, and I don't give a fat rat's ass about Israel. It is painful enough to watch you damned Jews play our system like a fiddle--and when smarmy loose with the truth assh*les like you decide to rub it in, it is easy to see why all those Spanish Inquistions, Russian Pogroms and Nazi Holocausts occurred.
 
2012-07-24 02:18:35 PM  

Dr Dreidel: XveryYpettyZ: Dr Dreidel:
// also, the UN HQ is in NY - does that make NY the "seat of government" of the US?
// after all, the world's embassy is there

Hey, I think you might have drooled a little bit on your yarmulke while you were making this completely stupid point.

I think I may have gotten the point backwards, but that's no reason to be borderline anti-Semitic about it. Have a nice piece chick'n, you'll feel better. Maybe some gribnes with? And a bissel coffee?

// also, Esti Ginsburg > Bar Refaeli
// civic duty style points FTW


I wasn't attempting to be borderline anti-Semitic. If you were a Southern-apologist talking about the "war of northern aggression" I would have substituted "stained confederate flag boxers" for "Yarmulke," or an objectivist would have gotten "copy of Atlas Shrugged". I just didn't think much of your point and needed something identifiable for you to have drooled on whilst making it. Obviously I was trying to be insulting, so apologizing would be somewhat disingenuous.
 
2012-07-24 02:18:56 PM  
media.accessvegas.com
 
2012-07-24 02:19:46 PM  

liam76: Mrtraveler01: liam76: Yet they claimed the capitol of Palestine as Jerusalem.

From the BBC Olympic website:

Palestine: Intended seat of government: East Jerusalem. Ramallah serves as administrative capital.

Israel: Seat of government: Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv.

OH MY FARKING GOD THE BBC IS SO ANTI-SEMETIC!!!11111111111!!!!

Notice the past tense?


Past tense?

Do you not know how to use the word "intended"?

Jesus, are you really getting this worked up over semantics?
 
2012-07-24 02:22:09 PM  
Israel, the biggest little kid on the block.
 
2012-07-24 02:22:33 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Eshkar: On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel,

Does that mean they'll stop evicting Palestinians from their homes then?


Considering that Jordan was originally supposed to be "Palestine" before the Hussein's took it and turned into Jordan and 70% of Jordan's populace is oppressed Palestinians... why don't you start gripping at Jordan if you are so concerned with the plight of the Palestinians... seeing that what we call Jordan today is actually Palestine. It really is sad, Jordan treats their Palestinian majority like shiat; while the majority of Palestinians living as Israeli citizens have made it clear they won't give up their citizenship's to be part of a West Bank "Palestinian" state because Israel treats them far better than Fatah, Hamas, or Jordan... but yet the world sees fit to biatch at Israel for defending themselves against radical terrorist... defending Hebrew, Palestinian, and Druze Israeli Citizens. Israel has always been inhabited by the Hebrew people, they have been chased out and come back so many times it's insane. We aren't going anywhere; Israel is ours, Jerusalem is our Capital.
 
2012-07-24 02:24:15 PM  

liam76: Really that is what SA did? I thought they decided, based on race, that there were four difference classes of people who had different rightd based on that classification.


Yep, they did the four classification thing and then: (from wiki LOL) "Non-white political representation was completely abolished in 1970, and starting in that year black people were deprived of their citizenship, legally becoming citizens of one of ten tribally based self-governing homelands called bantustans, four of which became nominally independent states."

The use of "bantustans" was mostly for international consumption, if I remember my college international relations course properly. It was little more than a fig leaf for the policy you point out, but it was an important fig leaf. Again, the idea that there will some day be an independent Palestinian State with actual territorial integrity is also mostly a fig leaf-- but an important one-- it allows for the current policy of treating them as foreign nationals on the land they call home.
 
2012-07-24 02:24:59 PM  
Magorn

grotto_man:

Anyway, for those of you interested in correctives to the Bigoted Broadcasting Company's BS can take a gander at http://honestreporting.com/ , and to find just for the BBC there's http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=12 .

Since they didn't Build it, the only claim that Israel ever had to Jerusalem was by right of conquest in the regin of David.


The right they have is first and foremost - self determination. The population of what's now Israel was overwhelmingly majority Jewish when they European mandates that were the interim to the break up of the Ottoman empire expired - same of for Jordan, Syria, etc.


Any title claim that gave them on the city was susbequently extinguished by an equally valid "rigth of Conquest" claim from : The Babylonians, The Assyrians, The Macedonians, The Romans, the Arabs, The Crusaders, the Turks and the British. Now you could argue they re-acquired title in 1967 in the same way, but unfortunately for ISrael, the valdity of territorial aquistiton by conquest was more or less extinguished in international law after WWII and under the articles that created the UN (and since the UN is also the sole source of validity of the existence of an Israeli state at all...)

So in your book the conquest by the Arabs was OK because it was before WWI. How convenient.

This is one of the reasons they've tried so very hard to ethnically cleanse East Jerusalem so they can claim the city is basically all Israeli anyway so why not "recognize the reality on the ground" -more or less the same argument they use everytime they steal more land for their "settlers"

Interesting how closely you parrot some of the lies the BBC has made, and been called out on. In one of the links I from the BBC category I posted - http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=4&x_outlet=12&x_article=204 0 :

Mr. Giles's complaint relies in part on his assertion, with ominous undertones, that CAMERA's brief video "re-edited" the Panorama documentary and shows only excerpts from the programme.

Of course, it's obvious that a 15-minute video meant to draw attention to journalistic malpractice in a 30-minute documentary, and to highlight the BBC's inadequate defence of its programme, by necessity must rely on excerpts and montages. Indeed, the video also selectively excerpts examples from CAMERA's complaint, omitting, for the sake of brevity, other instances of the documentary's violation of the Editorial Guidelines.

Readers should take note that, importantly, Mr. Giles does not directly refute even one of the points we made in the video, evidently seeking instead to distract readers with incoherent and incongruous commentary. He says nothing about BBC's out-of-context statistics. There is not a word of explanation for why the BBC twice relayed unsubstantiated and false accusations that Jerusalem is being ethnically cleansed of Arabs when, in fact, the city's Arab population is growing faster than its Jewish population. Nor does he attempt to explain why the BBC does not refer to acts of Palestinian terrorism even while it charges Jews with acts of violence.


And of course, in the real world they're not "stealing land". There are plenty of Arabs living in the West Bank/Yesha areas under Israeli control, and they're building on the land they own, which title Israel recognizes. And the demonic "settlers" of your overworked and fervid imagination are Jews building on land they own. And of course there's a large number of Arab citizens in pre-1967 area Israel.

Meanwhile, the PA and Hamas areas are Judenfrei - no Jews allowed to live in the areas they control. But they're like the rest of the Arab Middle East, which ethnically cleansed its Jews (a fact which you and your ilk gleefully ignore) - http://www.jimena.org .
 
2012-07-24 02:25:55 PM  

FreetardoRivera: If everyone just lumped Israelis in with the rest of the middle eastern/brown people (like they should) the world would be a simpler and better place.


Once we've successfully done that, we can lump all "the middle eastern/brown people" in with everyone else and just have "people".
 
2012-07-24 02:26:57 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Past tense?

Do you not know how to use the word "intended"?

Jesus, are you really getting this worked up over semantics?



Pointing out the bad logic used to defend the BBC, and how you misunderstood what I said isn't getting "worked up".


They previously had the captiol of Paklestine listed as Jerusalem, hence the excuse that disputed land shouldn't be the capitol doesn't hold water for why the BBC didn't list it as the capitol for Israel (on top of the fact that the Knesset isn't in the disputed part of Jerusalem).

Funny how they go out of ehir way to say what the Palestenians intend but don't report the fact on the ground about it. Actually not funny, par for the ocurse when it comes to BBC and Israel.
 
2012-07-24 02:27:59 PM  
Seems about par for the course for Israeli right-wingers.

Actually, it's refreshing that they can use other tactics than screaming "anti-Semite" at detractors.
 
2012-07-24 02:28:04 PM  

Arkanaut: Carousel Beast: Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.

Palestianian Authority? Shouldn't that be "Jordan?" I thought that's who they took it from way back when.

Jordan doesn't want it anymore.


If that's honestly the case, why would the Palestinian Authority have a claim to it? In any event?
 
2012-07-24 02:29:50 PM  
Whatever you do, don't ask for his take on the whole Burma/Myanmar thing.
 
2012-07-24 02:31:52 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: liam76: Really that is what SA did? I thought they decided, based on race, that there were four difference classes of people who had different rightd based on that classification.

Yep, they did the four classification thing and then: (from wiki LOL) "Non-white political representation was completely abolished in 1970, and starting in that year black people were deprived of their citizenship, legally becoming citizens of one of ten tribally based self-governing homelands called bantustans, four of which became nominally independent states."


So seeing as how Israel is not deciding who has voting rights in their state based on race it is nothing like SA, glad we cleared that up.
 
2012-07-24 02:33:00 PM  
For a country that gets so tetchy about Palestine being a member UNESCO it is amusing to see them get so tetchy about something like this.
 
2012-07-24 02:33:57 PM  

TheMatchHare: West Germany wasn't formally in charge of the administration of West Berlin--France, the UK and the US shared that responsibility. It was for this reason that West Germany never stationed troops in West Berlin in the Cold War and NATO troops in West Berlin still earned WW2 Occupation Medals through 1990.


There's also the matter that establishing your capital in a city which is not only geographically separated from the rest of your territory but also surrounded by the territory of your sworn enemy would be almost suicidally stupid. A few regiments of NATO troops aren't going to do shiat to prevent the DDR from marching in and arresting your Chancellor on trumped up charges, short of the start of World War III.
 
2012-07-24 02:34:23 PM  

liam76: They previously had the captiol of Paklestine listed as Jerusalem, hence the excuse that disputed land shouldn't be the capitol doesn't hold water for why the BBC didn't list it as the capitol for Israel (on top of the fact that the Knesset isn't in the disputed part of Jerusalem).


So are you happy with the way the BBC has it for both countries now?
 
2012-07-24 02:36:10 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it; write your strongly worded letters and write your angry blog post about it; it won't change anything. Israel is here to stay, get used to it; the 2000 years of deeply seated antisemitism based on religious intolerance (yes even in you agnostics and atheist, you have been contaminated by 2000+ years of Christian hate, you may not realize it but your biased against Israel is actually rooted in a social norm of deep seated accepted hate of the Jewish people) can no longer hold back the Hebrew People.

Interesting, so when I didn't like South Africa it was because of my Anti-Hebrew bias? Because creating fictionally independent areas and then treating the residents as foreign workers without rights was exactly what South Africa did... and was Israel is doing. Want to end this valid criticism of your apartheid policy? Stop stalling for time and allow for the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state with real territorial integrity. But that won't happen. Israel will continue to stall, continue to kneel out to clock, continue to expand illegal settlements and allow these fake-nation refugee camps without jobs or security and subject to illegal collective punishment at the hands of the IDF to be the future for Arabs under Israeli rule.



Why don't you create them a state in Montana or some where like that... considering the Palestinian "refuge" population in the US... that is essentially what you are asking Israel to do. What we call Jordan is actually Palestine. If you want to biatch at someone about the plight of the Palestinians biatch at the Jordanians who oppress 70% of their population (Palestinians) because they know they stole their country. Heck Jordan is refusing entry to Palestinians fleeing Syria while allowing everyone else safe haven in Jordan. Palestine = Jordan :: Palestine ≠ Israel

varmitydog: Eskar: Do me a favor... get your facts straight you clot pole before you open your ignorant mouth. Israel receives only a small percentage of their national income from the US. The US is the one that insist on giving Israel money; Israel hasn't even spent most of the money the US has given it in the past few years. Israel is self sufficient and able to fully protect itself. The majority of new tech is being created in Israel; all the nice toys you have wouldn't be here if it weren't for Israel.

Aye, why don't you take your Israeli propaganda and shove it straight up your APAIC ass, eh?
Israel would not exist without the United States of America propping it up--it is most decidedly NOT the other way around.
And claiming that our despicable US Congress is just itching to give Israel money isn't exactly a true statement either, not when you consider that the Jewish lobby has been allowed to get away with essentially blackmailing them by the corrupt US court system.

I am an American, and I don't give a fat rat's ass about Israel. It is painful enough to watch you damned Jews play our system like a fiddle--and when smarmy loose with the truth assh*les like you decide to rub it in, it is easy to see why all those Spanish Inquistions, Russian Pogroms and Nazi Holocausts occurred.



Wow, I see Storm Front found their way in.
 
2012-07-24 02:36:19 PM  

randomjsa: The only arseholes who need to learn how to negotiate are the ones that are suppose to be on the other side of the table from Israel.


To be fair, Israel was not one in a fair game of blackjack. Whether it's rightfully theirs or not is debatable, but it really hasn't been *that* long since it was taken by force.
 
2012-07-24 02:37:48 PM  

Fart_Machine: Blogger whining about BBC comes off like a Ritalin addicted 13 year old complaining about people dissing dub step.


Every time I read something like this I visualize that farked up karate kid from Smokin Aces.

Is there a Jew alive who isn't a professional victim? Maybe you Christ killers would be more popular if you didn't have such an "us or them" attitude. Acknowledge that all people are equal, and realize anti-semitism isn't racism because you aren't a race. You segregate yourselves by religion and it's silly as well as self-destructive. ENOUGH WHINING already, oy vey.
 
2012-07-24 02:39:41 PM  

Mrtraveler01: liam76: They previously had the captiol of Paklestine listed as Jerusalem, hence the excuse that disputed land shouldn't be the capitol doesn't hold water for why the BBC didn't list it as the capitol for Israel (on top of the fact that the Knesset isn't in the disputed part of Jerusalem).

So are you happy with the way the BBC has it for both countries now?


No.


As I said before.

Funny how they go out of ehir way to say what the Palestenians intend but don't report the fact on the ground about it. Actually not funny, par for the ocurse when it comes to BBC and Israel

They say that Pelestine wants it there but makes no mention about the realities. They ignore what Israel wants, refuse to acknowledge it is the actual capitol, and go out of their way to point out that Embassies aren't there.

They got caught showing clear double standards. After that they still show double standards.
 
2012-07-24 02:39:59 PM  

Carousel Beast: Arkanaut: Carousel Beast: Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.

Palestianian Authority? Shouldn't that be "Jordan?" I thought that's who they took it from way back when.

Jordan doesn't want it anymore.

If that's honestly the case, why would the Palestinian Authority have a claim to it? In any event?


Because they want to, and nobody else will stop them? I guess Israel would want the land, but they don't want the ~2 1/2 million people who live there, and they don't actually want to commit genocide to get rid of them the way some anti-Israel groups seem to suggest.
 
2012-07-24 02:41:52 PM  
I'd feed Bar Refaeli some non-Kosher sausage, if you know what I mean.
 
2012-07-24 02:42:53 PM  
I have to give him props for "The capitol of England is now Fingerhampton"
 
2012-07-24 02:46:24 PM  

Ohlookabutterfly: Fart_Machine: Blogger whining about BBC comes off like a Ritalin addicted 13 year old complaining about people dissing dub step.

Every time I read something like this I visualize that farked up karate kid from Smokin Aces.

Is there a Jew alive who isn't a professional victim? Maybe you Christ killers would be more popular if you didn't have such an "us or them" attitude. Acknowledge that all people are equal, and realize anti-semitism isn't racism because you aren't a race. You segregate yourselves by religion and it's silly as well as self-destructive. ENOUGH WHINING already, oy vey.


Actually we are a Ethnic group within the Semitic race you bigot. Genetic testing has proven that over and over again. You just like to say we are so you feel better about your bigotry because it is ok to dislike a religion but not a race / ethnic group. We are a ethnic group within the Semitic race, we just happen to have a religion as well. Next you will be telling people from India they are really just Hindus and aren't a separate race.
 
2012-07-24 02:49:40 PM  
You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.
 
2012-07-24 02:53:56 PM  
Eshkar: Actually we are a Ethnic group within the Semitic race you bigot. Genetic testing has proven that over and over again.

I'm not agreeing with the Stormfront asshole, but I'm not sure this is the argument you want to go with. If you do, then you have to acknowledge that important laws, including the Law of Return, which affect one's ability to obtain citizenship and political rights (with the exception of a class of Arabs that were grandfathered in) create castes based on ethnicity, which makes you sound like South Africa during apartheid.

Not to mention that it's not actually true, because converts are Jews, yet not ethnically "Jewish."
 
2012-07-24 02:54:00 PM  

Eshkar: Why don't you create them a state in Montana or some where like that... considering the Palestinian "refuge" population in the US... that is essentially what you are asking Israel to do. What we call Jordan is actually Palestine. If you want to biatch at someone about the plight of the Palestinians biatch at the Jordanians who oppress 70% of their population (Palestinians) because they know they stole their country. Heck Jordan is refusing entry to Palestinians fleeing Syria while allowing everyone else safe haven in Jordan. Palestine = Jordan :: Palestine ≠ Israel


1948 boundaries. That is all.
 
2012-07-24 02:55:20 PM  

liam76: They say that Pelestine wants it there but makes no mention about the realities. They ignore what Israel wants, refuse to acknowledge it is the actual capitol, and go out of their way to point out that Embassies aren't there.

They got caught showing clear double standards. After that they still show double standards.


So you're upset that the BBC is taking the same stance as 90% of the Western World (including the US) in regards to what is recognized as the capital of Israel?


The United States views as desirable the establishing of an international regime for the city.[32] Its final status must be resolved through negotiations[33] and it does not recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.[34]

Clearly this proves that the BBC hates Israel.
 
2012-07-24 02:57:04 PM  

cc_rider: You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.


Actually the US does. The Jerusalem Embassy Act which went into effect Nov. 8 1995, which calls for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this law. So yes the US does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of the State of Israel. (if the Jews and Israel have so much control over the US why hasn't a US President implemented this law... because we don't and it's an antisemitic delusion... now go put on your foil hats (not directed at person I was responding to))
 
2012-07-24 02:59:16 PM  

Eshkar: cc_rider: You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.

Actually the US does. The Jerusalem Embassy Act which went into effect Nov. 8 1995, which calls for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this law. So yes the US does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of the State of Israel. (if the Jews and Israel have so much control over the US why hasn't a US President implemented this law... because we don't and it's an antisemitic delusion... now go put on your foil hats (not directed at person I was responding to))


Then why is the embassy still in Tel Aviv?
 
2012-07-24 02:59:59 PM  

Eshkar: It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this la


Does Congress even have the power to pass a law related to such a thing? That sort of foreign policy sounds more like the executive branch's purview.
 
2012-07-24 03:00:19 PM  

ph0rk: For a nation virtually incapable of standing on its own feet, Israel sure talks a lot of smack.


Tell that to the Egyptians, Iraqis, Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese.
 
2012-07-24 03:02:04 PM  
A government doesn't make a city the capital of the country. The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, but the Dutch government is in Den Haag. The capital of Bolivia is Sucre, but the government has its seat in La Paz.
Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine. Most countries won't validate Israels occupation of Jerusalem by recognizing it as the capital of the country.
 
2012-07-24 03:05:14 PM  

Klopfer: A government doesn't make a city the capital of the country. The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, but the Dutch government is in Den Haag. The capital of Bolivia is Sucre, but the government has its seat in La Paz.
Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine. Most countries won't validate Israels occupation of Jerusalem by recognizing it as the capital of the country.


Bingo
 
2012-07-24 03:07:57 PM  

Mrtraveler01: So you're upset that the BBC is taking the same stance as 90% of the Western World (including the US) in regards to what is recognized as the capital of Israel?


First off BBC isn't taking the same stance as the rest of the world, otherwise they wouldn't have at first given Jerusalem as the capitol of Palestine.

Second, why do you keep responding to me if you are clearly not reading what I am writing?

They say that Pelestine wants it there but makes no mention about the realities. They ignore what Israel wants, refuse to acknowledge it is the actual capitol, and go out of their way to point out that Embassies aren't there.

They got caught showing clear double standards. After that they still show double standards.
:


I am upset about the double standard.

Mrtraveler01: The United States views as desirable the establishing of an international regime for the city.[32] Its final status must be resolved through negotiations[33] and it does not recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.[34]

Clearly this proves that the BBC hates Israel


I would say the double standard, that you still refuse to acknowledge does show bias.

Also you might want to reread your link and understand it is talking mostly about East Jerusalem, not West Jerualem.
 
2012-07-24 03:08:31 PM  

Eshkar: cc_rider: You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.

Actually the US does. The Jerusalem Embassy Act which went into effect Nov. 8 1995, which calls for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this law. So yes the US does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of the State of Israel. (if the Jews and Israel have so much control over the US why hasn't a US President implemented this law... because we don't and it's an antisemitic delusion... now go put on your foil hats (not directed at person I was responding to))


The CIA's Factbook disagrees with you. The US does not officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital.

As for the Jerusalem Embassy Act, Wikipedia sez: Since passage, the law has never been implemented, because of opposition from Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama, who view it as a Congressional infringement on the executive branch's constitutional authority over foreign policy; they have consistently claimed the presidential waiver on national security interests.

These are very easy to fact check. Why didn't you?
 
2012-07-24 03:08:49 PM  

Klopfer: A government doesn't make a city the capital of the country. The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, but the Dutch government is in Den Haag. The capital of Bolivia is Sucre, but the government has its seat in La Paz.
Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine. Most countries won't validate Israels occupation of Jerusalem by recognizing it as the capital of the country.


Interesting. So the part of Jerusalem that was part of Israel as a result of the partition vote in November of 1947 (known in modern parlance as "Jerusalem", as opposed to the half of Jerusalem won by Israel in 1967, referred to as "East Jerusalem")...this means nothing?

// it was also won in the Arab-Israel war from Nov 47-May 48, but that's clearly not going to be a persuasive argument
 
2012-07-24 03:09:04 PM  

indylaw: Eshkar: Actually we are a Ethnic group within the Semitic race you bigot. Genetic testing has proven that over and over again.

I'm not agreeing with the Stormfront asshole, but I'm not sure this is the argument you want to go with. If you do, then you have to acknowledge that important laws, including the Law of Return, which affect one's ability to obtain citizenship and political rights (with the exception of a class of Arabs that were grandfathered in) create castes based on ethnicity, which makes you sound like South Africa during apartheid.

Not to mention that it's not actually true, because converts are Jews, yet not ethnically "Jewish."


Converts aren't the norm, that is a religious thing but also a social issue, religion and our ethnic identity are very much intertwined. Conversion allowed an outsider to become part of the Hebrew peoples, giving the right to marriage within the Hebrew society, The whole idea of a cast system is skewed, Israel is a nation for the Jewish (I prefer Hebrew really) people. Arabs and Druze also receive citizenship, but to move to Israel with little to no problems and become a citizen being Jewish is preferred (while it is still possible for non-Jews to gain citizenship). There are those of direct Hebrew decent that chose to live in Israel that do not practice Judaism. Just because it sounds bad doesn't make it bad; Arab countries have similar laws, and other countries throughout the world have similar laws, making it easier for people that are descended from their country but ancestors left easier to gain citizenship. The modern state of Israel is the continuation of ancient Israel, so it is easier and preferred for descendants of the Israelite's (Jews) to move there and become citizens.
 
2012-07-24 03:09:43 PM  

Klopfer: Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine.


So you are unfamiliar with West Jerusalem which has been part of Israel since 1948?

You argument only holds for east Jerusalem.
 
2012-07-24 03:11:37 PM  
You know, with all of this outrage, uh... well, why not just list Jerusalem for both of them? I mean then you don't really piss off anyone but the most hard-line folks, and they're looking to be pissed anyways.
 
2012-07-24 03:12:54 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Klopfer: A government doesn't make a city the capital of the country. The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, but the Dutch government is in Den Haag. The capital of Bolivia is Sucre, but the government has its seat in La Paz.
Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine. Most countries won't validate Israels occupation of Jerusalem by recognizing it as the capital of the country.

Interesting. So the part of Jerusalem that was part of Israel as a result of the partition vote in November of 1947 (known in modern parlance as "Jerusalem", as opposed to the half of Jerusalem won by Israel in 1967, referred to as "East Jerusalem")...this means nothing?

// it was also won in the Arab-Israel war from Nov 47-May 48, but that's clearly not going to be a persuasive argument


Tiny minority groups probably shouldn't be trotting out the idea that right of conquest might be valid. Some ideas have sharp parts on both sides-- have to be careful how you swing them.
 
2012-07-24 03:13:38 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Jesus, are you really getting this worked up over semantics?


Are you Anti-Semantic?
 
2012-07-24 03:14:22 PM  

Heb: internationally recognised as being occupied territory


Lol.

5/10
 
2012-07-24 03:15:30 PM  

liam76: First off BBC isn't taking the same stance as the rest of the world, otherwise they wouldn't have at first given Jerusalem as the capitol of Palestine.


Did it say it was the official capitol or just the "intended" capitol?

liam76: They say that Pelestine wants it there but makes no mention about the realities. They ignore what Israel wants, refuse to acknowledge it is the actual capitol, and go out of their way to point out that Embassies aren't there.

They got caught showing clear double standards. After that they still show double standards.


The ones that exist in your head.

/What are the "realities" anyway?
 
2012-07-24 03:16:06 PM  

El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.

Actually the US does. The Jerusalem Embassy Act which went into effect Nov. 8 1995, which calls for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this law. So yes the US does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of the State of Israel. (if the Jews and Israel have so much control over the US why hasn't a US President implemented this law... because we don't and it's an antisemitic delusion... now go put on your foil hats (not directed at person I was responding to))

The CIA's Factbook disagrees with you. The US does not officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital.

As for the Jerusalem Embassy Act, Wikipedia sez: Since passage, the law has never been implemented, because of opposition from Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama, who view it as a Congressional infringement on the executive branch's constitutional authority over foreign policy; they have consistently claimed the presidential waiver on national security interests.

These are very easy to fact check. Why didn't you?


Just because the President doesn't like a law doesn't give him the right to ignore it. The CIA answers to the President. The US Congress has final say on all Foreign policy and has the right to overrule the President. Hence the reason Congress has to declare wars and ratify treaties. The Presidents since this law was passed and ratified by Congress have illegally chosen not to obey a Law passed by congress. But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.
 
2012-07-24 03:19:33 PM  
Eshkar: Wow, I see Storm Front found their way in.

Feh. You get called on your BS and play the Jew Card. Reading your drivel on this thread, that seems to be about your speed.
But I don't hate Jewish people--there are lots of righteous ones. Not too fond of the chickensh*t Zion uber alles ones though.
Look in the mirror and you'll see one.
 
2012-07-24 03:19:38 PM  

Eshkar: El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.

Actually the US does. The Jerusalem Embassy Act which went into effect Nov. 8 1995, which calls for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this law. So yes the US does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of the State of Israel. (if the Jews and Israel have so much control over the US why hasn't a US President implemented this law... because we don't and it's an antisemitic delusion... now go put on your foil hats (not directed at person I was responding to))

The CIA's Factbook disagrees with you. The US does not officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital.

As for the Jerusalem Embassy Act, Wikipedia sez: Since passage, the law has never been implemented, because of opposition from Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama, who view it as a Congressional infringement on the executive branch's constitutional authority over foreign policy; they have consistently claimed the presidential waiver on national security interests.

These are very easy to fact check. Why didn't you?

Just because the President doesn't like a law doesn't give him the right to ignore it. The CIA answers to the President. The US Congress has final say on all Foreign policy and has the right to overrule the President. Hence the reason Congress has to declare wars and ratify treaties. The Presidents since this law was passed and ratified by Congress have illegally chosen not to obey a Law passed by congress. But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.


That it is illegal hasn't been decided. If Congress cared they could attempt to force the issue through the courts. Until that happens (and it won't, because the law was nothing more than a sop to domestic constituent groups) the president and congress just have differing legal opinions which haven't yet been adjudicated.

/translation: the vote is tied 1 to 1 and neither side is calling for a tie-breaker. It's not illegal until the courts weigh in.
 
2012-07-24 03:19:52 PM  

Eshkar: Just because the President doesn't like a law doesn't give him the right to ignore it.


As long as the statute in question can be argued to be unconstitutional, yes, it does.
 
2012-07-24 03:20:33 PM  

Delawheredad: The BBC has been penalized before for an anti-Israel bias. Some things never change.


Yeah, you're right, those Israelis can't deal with anything that they perceive as "anti-Israel".
 
2012-07-24 03:24:33 PM  
FTFA: Responding to the uproar later last week, the BBC edited Israel's profile on their site. Did it list Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? Of course not. It listed it as the "seat of government." What the flying falafel does that even mean?

Dude, there are other countries where the "capital" and the "seat of government" are located in different cities":

wwwdelivery.superstock.com

You (Israel) are not so special as you like to think you are, (despite of the U.S.A. still being your biatch)
 
2012-07-24 03:26:57 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: Why don't you create them a state in Montana or some where like that... considering the Palestinian "refuge" population in the US... that is essentially what you are asking Israel to do. What we call Jordan is actually Palestine. If you want to biatch at someone about the plight of the Palestinians biatch at the Jordanians who oppress 70% of their population (Palestinians) because they know they stole their country. Heck Jordan is refusing entry to Palestinians fleeing Syria while allowing everyone else safe haven in Jordan. Palestine = Jordan :: Palestine ≠ Israel

1948 boundaries. That is all.



To be honest I don't give a flying fark what the UN has to say, nor the international community, they can all suck my big toe. Lets play a numbers game As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country, so Palestinians should rule Jordan (but they are violently oppressed, far worse than anything Israel has ever done). So solution to problem is for Jordan to become the Palestinian homeland (like the original UN plan... which I don't even care about), Palestinians from all over the world including Israel can then decide if they wish to live there. Israel will have their land, including the West Bank and the Palestinians can have all of Jordan. Given the numbers this plan is much more fair to both sides, Israel keeps their small amount of land in the middle east and Palestine gets a very large area where they are currently already the majority. The Hebrew nation and the Palestinian Nation, two Semitic nations, the perfect two state solution.
 
2012-07-24 03:27:11 PM  

Mrtraveler01: liam76: First off BBC isn't taking the same stance as the rest of the world, otherwise they wouldn't have at first given Jerusalem as the capitol of Palestine.

Did it say it was the official capitol or just the "intended" capitol?


Originally it said it was the captiol.


Mrtraveler01: The ones that exist in your head.


You really see no double standard in listing what Palestine wants and ignoring what Israel wants? No double standard, when called on that, to list what Palestine intends (ignoring it has no seat of govt there and no embassies there) and then call out that Israel has no embassies there?


Mrtraveler01: /What are the "realities" anyway


Well there are the realities that the Knesset is in Jersualem, in an part of land that is undisputed (even though you kept trying to pretend that all of Jeruslaem was disputed), the Palestine has no govt there, that they have no embassies there, etc.
 
2012-07-24 03:32:19 PM  

varmitydog: Eshkar: Wow, I see Storm Front found their way in.

Feh. You get called on your BS and play the Jew Card. Reading your drivel on this thread, that seems to be about your speed.
But I don't hate Jewish people--there are lots of righteous ones. Not too fond of the chickensh*t Zion uber alles ones though.
Look in the mirror and you'll see one.


Yes I get it, you have a black friend, a gay friend, and a Jew friend and they all support your racist bigotry. Dude earlier you justified the Inquisition and Hitler by justifying hatred of Jews... Guess what your a Bigot... look in the mirror and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a neon sign flashing bigot over your head... Yes I am a Zionist, a proud Zionist... not a chicken nor a chicken shiat, but defiantly a Zionist.
 
2012-07-24 03:32:55 PM  

liam76: Mrtraveler01: /What are the "realities" anyway

Well there are the realities that the Knesset is in Jersualem, in an part of land that is undisputed (even though you kept trying to pretend that all of Jeruslaem was disputed), the Palestine has no govt there, that they have no embassies there, etc.


Yes but like I said, none of that disputes the fact that very few countries consider Jerusalem to be the official capitol of Israel.
 
2012-07-24 03:35:46 PM  

Eshkar: As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country


Black Population in South Africa : 78%
Black Population in Haiti : 85%

Let's return Haiti to Africa where they belong.
 
2012-07-24 03:36:46 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Dr Dreidel: Klopfer: A government doesn't make a city the capital of the country. The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, but the Dutch government is in Den Haag. The capital of Bolivia is Sucre, but the government has its seat in La Paz.
Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine. Most countries won't validate Israels occupation of Jerusalem by recognizing it as the capital of the country.

Interesting. So the part of Jerusalem that was part of Israel as a result of the partition vote in November of 1947 (known in modern parlance as "Jerusalem", as opposed to the half of Jerusalem won by Israel in 1967, referred to as "East Jerusalem")...this means nothing?

// it was also won in the Arab-Israel war from Nov 47-May 48, but that's clearly not going to be a persuasive argument

Tiny minority groups probably shouldn't be trotting out the idea that right of conquest might be valid. Some ideas have sharp parts on both sides-- have to be careful how you swing them.


Did you miss the part where the UN voted to carve out a parcel of land for Israel without "Israel" casting a vote? That was November of 1947. Israel counts independence from about 6 months later, in 1948. Even though it appears Israel is counting based on when the war was won, that was when "independence" was established. And ohbytheway, Jerusalem was included within Israel's part of the partition in 1947.

"Conquest" implies a campaign to conquer other lands, making the UN the "conquistador" in this case. Israel just backed up their ability to possess/control the land they'd already been given. (The "tiny minority" acquitting itself quite well on the battlefield.)

// and we're not talking about post-1967
// because Jerusalem has been a part of Israel's land and its self-defined capital since 1947-8
// also, none of this suggests I'm fond of the Irgun or some of the tactics used in the '47-'48/'67 campaigns
 
2012-07-24 03:38:07 PM  

Dr Dreidel: XveryYpettyZ: Dr Dreidel: Klopfer: A government doesn't make a city the capital of the country. The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, but the Dutch government is in Den Haag. The capital of Bolivia is Sucre, but the government has its seat in La Paz.
Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine. Most countries won't validate Israels occupation of Jerusalem by recognizing it as the capital of the country.

Interesting. So the part of Jerusalem that was part of Israel as a result of the partition vote in November of 1947 (known in modern parlance as "Jerusalem", as opposed to the half of Jerusalem won by Israel in 1967, referred to as "East Jerusalem")...this means nothing?

// it was also won in the Arab-Israel war from Nov 47-May 48, but that's clearly not going to be a persuasive argument

Tiny minority groups probably shouldn't be trotting out the idea that right of conquest might be valid. Some ideas have sharp parts on both sides-- have to be careful how you swing them.

Did you miss the part where the UN voted to carve out a parcel of land for Israel without "Israel" casting a vote? That was November of 1947. Israel counts independence from about 6 months later, in 1948. Even though it appears Israel is counting based on when the war was won, that was when "independence" was established. And ohbytheway, Jerusalem was included within Israel's part of the partition in 1947.

"Conquest" implies a campaign to conquer other lands, making the UN the "conquistador" in this case. Israel just backed up their ability to possess/control the land they'd already been given. (The "tiny minority" acquitting itself quite well on the battlefield.)

// and we're not talking about post-1967
// because Jerusalem has been a part of Israel's land and its self-defined capital since 1947-8
// also, none of this suggests I'm fond of the Irgun or some of the tactics used in ...


The UN also wanted Jerusalem to be netural ground (a la Vatican City).

But we all saw how that turned out.
 
2012-07-24 03:39:23 PM  
I see we've already covered "if you criticize Israel you hate the joooos!" victimology.
 
2012-07-24 03:40:22 PM  

Eshkar: But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.


You do know an adhominem like that immediately tells everyone you got nuthin', right?

Ironic that you did it in response to a fact check challenge too.
 
2012-07-24 03:40:24 PM  

Magorn: This is why the capital of say, West Germany was moved from Berlin to Bonn during the cold war


No, that's not why. It wasn't some freshman poli-sci paper's half-assed legal theory about other claimants. They didn't want the capital in Berlin because it was essentially behind enemy lines, cut off and indefensible.
 
2012-07-24 03:42:52 PM  

Jairzinho: Eshkar: As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country

Black Population in South Africa : 78%
Black Population in Haiti : 85%

Let's return Haiti to Africa where they belong.


Wow... talk about taking what I said out of context... Haiti is ruled by Haitians which are the majority. Jordan is ruled by Arabs which are the minority, while they violently oppress the Palestinian Majority. Israel is ruled democratically by the Majority... which are Hebrew. Ergo Jordan should be ruled by the Palestinians which make up the majority. Don't try to paint me as a racist you clot pole.
 
2012-07-24 03:44:42 PM  

El Pachuco: Eshkar: But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.

You do know an adhominem like that immediately tells everyone you got nuthin', right?

Ironic that you did it in response to a fact check challenge too.


No it just tells me that you need to make reference to more reliable sources. I'm not the New York Times, I need reliable sources.
 
2012-07-24 03:44:53 PM  

liam76: So are you happy with the way the BBC has it for both countries now?

No.


As I said before.

Funny how they go out of ehir way to say what the Palestenians intend but don't report the fact on the ground about it. Actually not funny, par for the ocurse when it comes to BBC and Israel

They say that Pelestine wants it there but makes no mention about the realities. They ignore what Israel wants, refuse to acknowledge it is the actual capitol, and go out of their way to point out that Embassies aren't there.

They got caught showing clear double standards. After that they still show double standards.


This is all you can really expect from liam "IRA are the good terrorists" 76; he's not happy unless he's whining about something. They corrected both profiles to a more balanced and internationally acceptable wording. Move on man, move on.
 
2012-07-24 03:45:30 PM  

El Pachuco: Eshkar: But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.

You do know an adhominem like that immediately tells everyone you got nuthin', right?

Ironic that you did it in response to a fact check challenge too.


He's gonna call you a racist now.
 
2012-07-24 03:46:43 PM  

Fart_Machine: El Pachuco: Eshkar: But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.

You do know an adhominem like that immediately tells everyone you got nuthin', right?

Ironic that you did it in response to a fact check challenge too.

He's gonna call you a racist now.


Nah, I only call racist... racist.
 
2012-07-24 03:48:09 PM  

Eshkar: Fart_Machine: El Pachuco: Eshkar: But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.

You do know an adhominem like that immediately tells everyone you got nuthin', right?

Ironic that you did it in response to a fact check challenge too.

He's gonna call you a racist now.

Nah, I only call racist... racist.


Good bye troll. Go be a victim somewhere else.
 
2012-07-24 03:51:54 PM  
Eshkar: Yes I get it, you have a black friend, a gay friend, and a Jew friend and they all support your racist bigotry. Dude earlier you justified the Inquisition and Hitler by justifying hatred of Jews... Guess what your a Bigot... look in the mirror and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a neon sign flashing bigot over your head... Yes I am a Zionist, a proud Zionist... not a chicken nor a chicken shiat, but defiantly a Zionist.

Saying that annoying pieces of work like yourself were responsible for various societies attempting to rub out the Jews throughout history is just an observation. Widely different people do not just up and attack another group of people at various places and times throughout history without cause. I grew up around Jews and had no quarrel with them until they got involved with subverting US foreign policy by bribing the corrupt US Congress. Now I see Israel as being not an ally of the USA, but as a very real threat to the USA. This does not make me a bigot, it makes me a realist.
 
2012-07-24 03:52:45 PM  

Eshkar: To be honest I don't give a flying fark what the UN has to say, nor the international community, they can all suck my big toe. Lets play a numbers game As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country, so Palestinians should rule Jordan (but they are violently oppressed, far worse than anything Israel has ever done). So solution to problem is for Jordan to become the Palestinian homeland (like the original UN plan... which I don't even care about), Palestinians from all over the world including Israel can then decide if they wish to live there. Israel will have their land, including the West Bank and the Palestinians can have all of Jordan. Given the numbers this plan is much more fair to both sides, Israel keeps their small amount of land in the middle east and Palestine gets a very large area where they are currently already the majority. The Hebrew nation and the Palestinian Nation, two Semitic nations, the perfect two state solution.


See, this is exactly my point. All of the talk about a Palestinian state on the West Bank of the Jordan River? a smoke screen. But beware, if you get what you want Israel will lose its soul. It cannot be Jewish, democratic and have all that land. You can have 2 of 3, and since you've already picked land, you have to choose between being a Jewish state (by systematically excluding non-Jews from the political process) or being democratic (by accepting the demographic time-bomb that is all the Palestinians in your occupied lands).

/You weren't thinking of ethnic cleansing, were you?
 
2012-07-24 03:54:09 PM  

Dr Dreidel: XveryYpettyZ: Dr Dreidel: Klopfer: A government doesn't make a city the capital of the country. The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, but the Dutch government is in Den Haag. The capital of Bolivia is Sucre, but the government has its seat in La Paz.
Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine. Most countries won't validate Israels occupation of Jerusalem by recognizing it as the capital of the country.

Interesting. So the part of Jerusalem that was part of Israel as a result of the partition vote in November of 1947 (known in modern parlance as "Jerusalem", as opposed to the half of Jerusalem won by Israel in 1967, referred to as "East Jerusalem")...this means nothing?

// it was also won in the Arab-Israel war from Nov 47-May 48, but that's clearly not going to be a persuasive argument

Tiny minority groups probably shouldn't be trotting out the idea that right of conquest might be valid. Some ideas have sharp parts on both sides-- have to be careful how you swing them.

Did you miss the part where the UN voted to carve out a parcel of land for Israel without "Israel" casting a vote? That was November of 1947. Israel counts independence from about 6 months later, in 1948. Even though it appears Israel is counting based on when the war was won, that was when "independence" was established. And ohbytheway, Jerusalem was included within Israel's part of the partition in 1947.

"Conquest" implies a campaign to conquer other lands, making the UN the "conquistador" in this case. Israel just backed up their ability to possess/control the land they'd already been given. (The "tiny minority" acquitting itself quite well on the battlefield.)

// and we're not talking about post-1967
// because Jerusalem has been a part of Israel's land and its self-defined capital since 1947-8
// also, none of this suggests I'm fond of the Irgun or some of the tactics used in ...


Yes, and babies don't get to vote on what their names are going to be. It's part of being brought into the world by an outside source, rather than getting there on your own.
 
2012-07-24 03:55:01 PM  

Fart_Machine: I see we've already covered "if you criticize Israel you hate the joooos!" victimology.


No there is no imagining it; the western world has been consciously and unconsciously imprinted with a hate of the Jewish people for over 2000 years now. It is actually a western social norm; sadly most people don't even realize that is where their distaste of Jews and Israel comes from, but sadly it is. Christianity's constant hate fest and attempts at mass extermination of the Jewish People has left a lasting effect on the Western World. Just like there are still latent racist in the Southern US, most people don't even realize it but they still hold racist ideas, usually they pop out of no where and shock the person when they say it in a moment of anger or frustration. Now just imagine that being planted into society for over 2000 years. Deny as you may the West has a culture norm to hate Jews... it is being repaired now but it is still there, 2000+ years of hate doesn't disappear in 70 or 80 years.
 
2012-07-24 03:55:41 PM  
Journalism is a serious field

That was when I started laughing and quit reading. It was a serious field. Now "serious" involves trailing after celebrities and reporting on their every move for no apparent reason.
 
2012-07-24 03:57:48 PM  

Carousel Beast: Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.

Palestianian Authority? Shouldn't that be "Jordan?" I thought that's who they took it from way back when.


Facts have no place on FARK so just stop it right now.
 
2012-07-24 03:59:59 PM  
Man your blog sucks.
 
2012-07-24 04:00:42 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: That was a lot of butthurt condensed into one article. From Wikipedia: "The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority"

You want a recognized capital? Negotiate, assholes.


And we're done. Some comedian gets a bug up his ass over the fact that no one recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, because it's still in dispute, and somehow it's the fault of... the BBC?

Hey, stupid comedian - direct your ire to Israel, or to the UN, but the BBC is, in fact, doing its job. Reporting.
 
2012-07-24 04:02:23 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: To be honest I don't give a flying fark what the UN has to say, nor the international community, they can all suck my big toe. Lets play a numbers game As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country, so Palestinians should rule Jordan (but they are violently oppressed, far worse than anything Israel has ever done). So solution to problem is for Jordan to become the Palestinian homeland (like the original UN plan... which I don't even care about), Palestinians from all over the world including Israel can then decide if they wish to live there. Israel will have their land, including the West Bank and the Palestinians can have all of Jordan. Given the numbers this plan is much more fair to both sides, Israel keeps their small amount of land in the middle east and Palestine gets a very large area where they are currently already the majority. The Hebrew nation and the Palestinian Nation, two Semitic nations, the perfect two state solution.

See, this is exactly my point. All of the talk about a Palestinian state on the West Bank of the Jordan River? a smoke screen. But beware, if you get what you want Israel will lose its soul. It cannot be Jewish, democratic and have all that land. You can have 2 of 3, and since you've already picked land, you have to choose between being a Jewish state (by systematically excluding non-Jews from the political process) or being democratic (by accepting the demographic time-bomb that is all the Palestinians in your occupied lands).

/You weren't thinking of ethnic cleansing, were you?



Did I say anything about Ethnic cleansing or forced relocation? No I said once the Palestinians have gained control of Jordan the Palestinians throughout the world could then decide if they wanted to move there... they could decide. I didn't say Israel would force them. I did say that Israel would remain Israel.. .all of Israel including the West bank. Ripping your country apart for ~20% of your population is ridiculous. I just believe that given the choice Palestinians would rather live in a Democratic Palestinian run Jordan than remain in Israel as a minority; just as many Jews prefer to move to Israel and live in a Jewish majority state.
 
2012-07-24 04:03:42 PM  
planetlibertaria.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-24 04:06:09 PM  
Eshkar
Did I say anything about Ethnic cleansing or forced relocation? No I said once the Palestinians have gained control of Jordan the Palestinians throughout the world could then decide if they wanted to move there... they could decide. I didn't say Israel would force them. I did say that Israel would remain Israel.. .all of Israel including the West bank. Ripping your country apart for ~20% of your population is ridiculous. I just believe that given the choice Palestinians would rather live in a Democratic Palestinian run Jordan than remain in Israel as a minority; just as many Jews prefer to move to Israel and live in a Jewish majority state
.

You do realize we are talking about members of a death cult who want you and your people dead right? They dont want your land, they want your head.
 
2012-07-24 04:08:47 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Yes, and babies don't get to vote on what their names are going to be. It's part of being brought into the world by an outside source, rather than getting there on your own.


Uh, what?

I'd rather every country on Earth got voted into existence (a la South Sudan or Israel), rather than have to wage bloody campaigns to gain independence. I mean, I'd really rather no population feel so mistreated they feel they need a new country.

I'd rather the Palestinian leadership not be morons more concerned with their peoples' PR than their well-being.

I'd rather Israel not have to deal with Palestinians as a people - dealing with them the same way the US deals with Floridians or Montanans would be peachy (i.e. they're a subset of the population, nothing else). Lumping the entire population ideologically together is a shortcut for security (and not nearly a perfect one), not a resolution to a problem.

I'd rather the indigenous Arab and Jewish populations had gotten together in 1947 and said: "We've got a long history of stepping on each other's dicks. Let's cut that out and make this new country work."

I'd rather not have to worry about the people I know and love who live in Israel getting caught up in a war they want no part of (and I know there are Palestinians & Israelis who do want that war. Fark 'em, they're morons, too).

I'd rather a lot of things, but I can't ignore reality.
 
2012-07-24 04:11:26 PM  

Eshkar: XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: Why don't you create them a state in Montana or some where like that... considering the Palestinian "refuge" population in the US... that is essentially what you are asking Israel to do. What we call Jordan is actually Palestine. If you want to biatch at someone about the plight of the Palestinians biatch at the Jordanians who oppress 70% of their population (Palestinians) because they know they stole their country. Heck Jordan is refusing entry to Palestinians fleeing Syria while allowing everyone else safe haven in Jordan. Palestine = Jordan :: Palestine ≠ Israel

1948 boundaries. That is all.

To be honest I don't give a flying fark what the UN has to say, nor the international community, they can all suck my big toe. Lets play a numbers game As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country, so Palestinians should rule Jordan (but they are violently oppressed, far worse than anything Israel has ever done). So solution to problem is for Jordan to become the Palestinian homeland (like the original UN plan... which I don't even care about), Palestinians from all over the world including Israel can then decide if they wish to live there. Israel will have their land, including the West Bank and the Palestinians can have all of Jordan. Given the numbers this plan is much more fair to both sides, Israel keeps their small amount of land in the middle east and Palestine gets a very large area where they are currently already the majority. The Hebrew nation and the Palestinian Nation, two Semitic nations, the perfect two state solution.


I often hear Americans making this similar argument...only the problem is this...if say the US government decided they were going to give a bunch of land back to the Native Americans in some political appeasement move, and your land was among that being given away...would you leave it peacefully, despite being offered no compensation?

Probably not.

And when those Native Americans came to take your house and live on your land, would you just walk away and forget about it?

Probably not.

In fact, you'd probably devote a lot of your time to trying to drive those Native Americans back off your land, the land that was given to them by a government that had no right to give it to them.

And they'd probably label you a 'terrorist'. And after a few decades passed, people would forget that you're just fighting against a great injustice that was done to you, and they'd forget that you're the good guy in the situation. And then you really would be a 'terrorist'.

And then when people on a Fark thread suggest you just suck it up and go live somewhere else where there are lots of other WASPS to keep you company, how do you think you'd react to that?

Do you think you would EVER just drop it, and let those people get away with stealing your land? Your families land?

Probably not.

You folks can throw the anti-semetic race card around all you want, but the simple truth of the matter is, you're not the good guys in the Palestinia/Israeli conflict. You're the aggressor. You came in after WWII, guns blazing, and you chased innocent people out of the homes they built, from their land, and you did it all on the basis of an extremely flimsy, and legally ludicrous argument - 'we used to live here thousands of years ago.'

Well, the Native Americans lived in Texas thousands of years before Texans did. Does that give them the legal right to drive everyone in Texas out of their homes under threat of murder?

Yeah, I didn't think so.
 
2012-07-24 04:11:32 PM  

ChipNASA: [planetlibertaria.files.wordpress.com image 533x800]


Is that William Shatner? It would be funny if it were, since he's a Jew.
 
2012-07-24 04:25:58 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Eshkar: XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: Why don't you create them a state in Montana or some where like that... considering the Palestinian "refuge" population in the US... that is essentially what you are asking Israel to do. What we call Jordan is actually Palestine. If you want to biatch at someone about the plight of the Palestinians biatch at the Jordanians who oppress 70% of their population (Palestinians) because they know they stole their country. Heck Jordan is refusing entry to Palestinians fleeing Syria while allowing everyone else safe haven in Jordan. Palestine = Jordan :: Palestine ≠ Israel

1948 boundaries. That is all.

To be honest I don't give a flying fark what the UN has to say, nor the international community, they can all suck my big toe. Lets play a numbers game As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country, so Palestinians should rule Jordan (but they are violently oppressed, far worse than anything Israel has ever done). So solution to problem is for Jordan to become the Palestinian homeland (like the original UN plan... which I don't even care about), Palestinians from all over the world including Israel can then decide if they wish to live there. Israel will have their land, including the West Bank and the Palestinians can have all of Jordan. Given the numbers this plan is much more fair to both sides, Israel keeps their small amount of land in the middle east and Palestine gets a very large area where they are currently already the majority. The Hebrew nation and the Palestinian Nation, two Semitic nations, the perfect two state solution.

I often hear Americans making this similar argument...only the problem is this...if say the US government decided they were going to give a bunch of land back to the Native Americans in some political appeasement move, and your land was among that being given away...would y ...


See your argument would be fine but you forgot about all the Jews that lived in what is now modern Israel before WW2... there were a lot. The people that are now refereed to as Palestinians weren't there for a long time, they were relocated to the area that is now modern Israel by the Turkish government and then later supported by an anti-Jewish British ruling military. They left Israel because the Arab countries that attacked Israel and got their asses kicked told them to leave and they could come back after they beat Israel. So we didn't kick anyone out, they left on their own... we just aren't letting them back in. Many of the ones that stayed enjoy full Israeli citizenship. The land isn't theirs. But a moot point really, Israel has it now, and honestly I don't think Israel is going to let anyone take it again.
 
2012-07-24 04:27:24 PM  

Eshkar: El Pachuco: [t2.gstatic.com image 105x120]

I get it, the writer claims to be a comedian so presumably that was supposed to be funny somehow.

He is a very funny comedian in Israel; I quite enjoy his humor.

rudemix: Painfully unfunny and forced humor over a minor slight. Prove this was less an error by some net geek and focused anti-semitism you idiot, otherwise you are no less a douche than you claim the BBC to be.

Keep up with news, this has been an ongoing scandal, they originally didn't have any capital listed for Israel and then did this shiat; now the Prime Minsiter's office has sent them a letter demanding it changed to Jerusalem as the Capital and they have so far refused.

varmitydog: I can easily see how the BBC could arrive at such a conclusion. In purely economic terms the American Congress in Washington funds Israel, so they can't really be sure whether the Israeli capital is Jerusalem or Washington DC. They are just being cautious here.

Do me a favor... get your facts straight you clot pole before you open your ignorant mouth. Israel receives only a small percentage of their national income from the US. The US is the one that insist on giving Israel money; Israel hasn't even spent most of the money the US has given it in the past few years. Israel is self sufficient and able to fully protect itself. The majority of new tech is being created in Israel; all the nice toys you have wouldn't be here if it weren't for Israel.

On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it; write your strongly worded letters and write your angry blog post about it; it won't change anything. Israel is here to stay, get used to it; the 2000 years of deeply seated antisemitism based on religious intolerance (yes even in you agnostics and atheist, you have been contaminated by 2000+ years of Christian hate, you may not realize it but your biased against Israel is actually rooted in a social norm of deep seated ...


Christian hate? Check your facts. Nobody loves Israel more than fire-breathing Baptist preachers.
 
2012-07-24 04:32:39 PM  

ZombiesYall: Eshkar: El Pachuco: [t2.gstatic.com image 105x120]

I get it, the writer claims to be a comedian so presumably that was supposed to be funny somehow.

He is a very funny comedian in Israel; I quite enjoy his humor.

rudemix: Painfully unfunny and forced humor over a minor slight. Prove this was less an error by some net geek and focused anti-semitism you idiot, otherwise you are no less a douche than you claim the BBC to be.

Keep up with news, this has been an ongoing scandal, they originally didn't have any capital listed for Israel and then did this shiat; now the Prime Minsiter's office has sent them a letter demanding it changed to Jerusalem as the Capital and they have so far refused.

varmitydog: I can easily see how the BBC could arrive at such a conclusion. In purely economic terms the American Congress in Washington funds Israel, so they can't really be sure whether the Israeli capital is Jerusalem or Washington DC. They are just being cautious here.

Do me a favor... get your facts straight you clot pole before you open your ignorant mouth. Israel receives only a small percentage of their national income from the US. The US is the one that insist on giving Israel money; Israel hasn't even spent most of the money the US has given it in the past few years. Israel is self sufficient and able to fully protect itself. The majority of new tech is being created in Israel; all the nice toys you have wouldn't be here if it weren't for Israel.

On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it; write your strongly worded letters and write your angry blog post about it; it won't change anything. Israel is here to stay, get used to it; the 2000 years of deeply seated antisemitism based on religious intolerance (yes even in you agnostics and atheist, you have been contaminated by 2000+ years of Christian hate, you may not realize it but your biased against Israel is actually rooted in a social norm of deep ...



No they don't love Israel... they just like that Israel exist so Jesus can come back. They support Israel so their apocalyptic fantasy's can come true.
I don't hate Christians, I just dislike that for over 2000 years they have a bad habit of killing us... chasing my family out of Spain... you know the norm for the past 2000 years.
 
2012-07-24 04:40:12 PM  

Eshkar: No they don't love Israel... they just like that Israel exist so Jesus can come back. They support Israel so their apocalyptic fantasy's can come true.
I don't hate Christians, I just dislike that for over 2000 years they have a bad habit of killing us... chasing my family out of Spain... you know the norm for the past 2000 years.


My goodness, aren't you dramatic. Maybe I should trot out the generations of victimhood my family endured from being chased out of France for being Protestant to being chased out of the Volga river valley for being German. I've got it, why don't we vomit up all the injustice that was done centuries in the past (Spain? Really? The reconquista was 520 years ago... but hey, it's "the norm" right?) and use it as a prism to view the world. In this victim world it doesn't matter what wrongs I do to others because they're justified by wrongs done to my nominal ancestors whom I never met.

/Or, you know, I could grow up and live in 2012 without the dramatic bullshiat.
 
2012-07-24 04:41:27 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Eshkar: XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: Why don't you create them a state in Montana or some where like that... considering the Palestinian "refuge" population in the US... that is essentially what you are asking Israel to do. What we call Jordan is actually Palestine. If you want to biatch at someone about the plight of the Palestinians biatch at the Jordanians who oppress 70% of their population (Palestinians) because they know they stole their country. Heck Jordan is refusing entry to Palestinians fleeing Syria while allowing everyone else safe haven in Jordan. Palestine = Jordan :: Palestine ≠ Israel

1948 boundaries. That is all.

To be honest I don't give a flying fark what the UN has to say, nor the international community, they can all suck my big toe. Lets play a numbers game As of 2010 Israel's Palestinian population was ~20%... Jordan's Palestinian population is ~70%... so Palestinians are the majority in Jordan... so that makes Jordan a Palestinian Country, so Palestinians should rule Jordan (but they are violently oppressed, far worse than anything Israel has ever done). So solution to problem is for Jordan to become the Palestinian homeland (like the original UN plan... which I don't even care about), Palestinians from all over the world including Israel can then decide if they wish to live there. Israel will have their land, including the West Bank and the Palestinians can have all of Jordan. Given the numbers this plan is much more fair to both sides, Israel keeps their small amount of land in the middle east and Palestine gets a very large area where they are currently already the majority. The Hebrew nation and the Palestinian Nation, two Semitic nations, the perfect two state solution.

I often hear Americans making this similar argument...only the problem is this...if say the US government decided they were going to give a bunch of land back to the Native Americans in some political appeasement move, and your land was among that being given away...would y ...


Bravo. I'm going to love seeing the response to this.

I'm just going to add one thing:

MAHATMA GANDHI ON THE CREATION OF ISRAEL

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age-long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close. Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships, therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for the Jews.

But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.

The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colourable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.

...And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are going about it the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart.... (November 1938)

Source^
 
2012-07-24 04:43:35 PM  
Writer sounds like hes got a stick up his butt.
 
2012-07-24 05:06:35 PM  

SkunkWerks: Israeli Geography:

Serious.

@#*&ing.

Business.


Lol.. this...

I mean.... seriously.. Who the fark cares?
 
2012-07-24 05:09:10 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Magorn: rgo Israel, under international law has no valid legal claim to Jerusalem, only a sentimental one. This is one of the reasons they've tried so very hard to ethnically cleanse East Jerusalem so they can claim the city is basically all Israeli anyway so why not "recognize the reality on the ground" -more or less the same argument they use everytime they steal more land for their "settlers"

Yeah, I mean I believe Israel has the right to exist as much as any other country but it's dickish things like this (ie: evicting Palestinians from their homes and then bulldozing their homes for yet another settlement) which make it really hard for me to defend them when they keep doing dickish things like that.

Is this a reasonable position to take?


Yes.
 
2012-07-24 05:12:30 PM  

lumiere: Bravo. I'm going to love seeing the response to this.

I'm just going to add one thing:

MAHATMA GANDHI ON THE CREATION OF ISRAEL

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age-long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close. Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships, therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for the Jews.

But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.

The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they ca ...




Nice, but Gandhi missed something very important, and sadly incorrectly applied his salutation on the Palestinians. The Jewish people aren't just a religious group as he implied in his closing, they are an ethnic group that was driven from their homeland. He also forgot that what is modern day Israel before the 1900's was a sparsely populated and sparsely cared about area, Jerusalem was the only place of concern to the Islamic rulers who constantly changed it from one hand to another, and Jerusalem was heavily neglected, they only liked saying they owned it, they didn't care about it. The only times in History where Israel became anything of importance was when the original owners (the Hebrew People) tried to take it back. So it's nice that Gandhi had Jewish friends; but his commentary was skewed by his own problems, his view of the Jewish people as a religious group and not an Ethnic group, and evident lack of historical context. Just as with the UN... I don't really care what Gandhi had to say about Israel.

But if you want qoutes from famous men... how about these:

John Adams
Farther I could find it in my heart to wish that you had been at the head of a hundred thousand Israelites . . . & marching with them into Judea & making a conquest of that country & restoring your nation to the dominion of it. For I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation. (Letter to Mordecai Manuel Noah, 1819) 1



John Quincy Adams

[I believe in the] rebuilding of Judea as an independent nation. (Letter to Major Mordecai Manuel Noah)



Abraham Lincoln

Not long after the Emancipation Proclamation, President Abraham Lincoln met a Canadian Christian Zionist, Henry Wentworth Monk, who expressed hope that Jews who were suffering oppression in Russia and Turkey be emancipated "by restoring them to their national home in Palestine." Lincoln said this was "a noble dream and one shared by many Americans." The President said his chiropodist was a Jew who "has so many times 'put me upon my feet' that I would have no objection to giving his countrymen 'a leg up.'"

These men knew who lived in the area of Modern day Israel during their time... and they wanted the Jews to take Israel... Even the great Abe Lincoln.
 
2012-07-24 05:14:46 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Any my citation of the Justice Department backs it up. Congress doesn't have the power to do make decisions like that.


That is the Justice Department's assertion, just because they claim that doesn't actually make it true. The US Supreme Court will have to decide who is right and who is wrong.
 
2012-07-24 05:15:21 PM  

liverpoolumd: SkunkWerks: Israeli Geography:

Serious.

@#*&ing.

Business.

Lol.. this...

I mean.... seriously.. Who the fark cares?


The tens of thousands of people who have been fighting over it for several decades?
 
2012-07-24 05:22:54 PM  

Eshkar: Ohlookabutterfly: Fart_Machine: Blogger whining about BBC comes off like a Ritalin addicted 13 year old complaining about people dissing dub step.

Every time I read something like this I visualize that farked up karate kid from Smokin Aces.

Is there a Jew alive who isn't a professional victim? Maybe you Christ killers would be more popular if you didn't have such an "us or them" attitude. Acknowledge that all people are equal, and realize anti-semitism isn't racism because you aren't a race. You segregate yourselves by religion and it's silly as well as self-destructive. ENOUGH WHINING already, oy vey.

Actually we are a Ethnic group within the Semitic race you bigot. Genetic testing has proven that over and over again. You just like to say we are so you feel better about your bigotry because it is ok to dislike a religion but not a race / ethnic group. We are a ethnic group within the Semitic race, we just happen to have a religion as well. Next you will be telling people from India they are really just Hindus and aren't a separate race.


Where did I say anything even remotely bigotted? You are not a race, you are a group of people who believe you are "chosen" and somehow better than all other peoples. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. But you go ahead and call anyone who disagrees with you an anti-semite, bigot or racist. Just because the words come from you're mouth that must make them fact. Heck, while your at it why not throw in troll and homophobe if we are going to start misusing labels out of ignorance. Tell me, why is it you have the words goyem and shiksa but there is no word in my language for "not male Canadian christian"? That sums up why people don't like you, you have words that mean "not jew(male)" and "not jew(female)".
 
2012-07-24 05:23:23 PM  

Eshkar: PonceAlyosha: Any my citation of the Justice Department backs it up. Congress doesn't have the power to do make decisions like that.

That is the Justice Department's assertion, just because they claim that doesn't actually make it true. The US Supreme Court will have to decide who is right and who is wrong.


Exactly... but they don't decide to rule on things, they have to be BROUGHT cases. If nobody is bringing them the case, what does that tell you? Neither side is willing to risk the erosion of power that actually adjudicating the dispute might involve, if the SCOTUS rules against them. So your assertion that it IS ILLEGAL... is wrong. Nobody wants to test it, so it stands as-is.
 
2012-07-24 05:30:31 PM  

Ohlookabutterfly: Eshkar: Ohlookabutterfly: Fart_Machine: Blogger whining about BBC comes off like a Ritalin addicted 13 year old complaining about people dissing dub step.

Every time I read something like this I visualize that farked up karate kid from Smokin Aces.

Is there a Jew alive who isn't a professional victim? Maybe you Christ killers would be more popular if you didn't have such an "us or them" attitude. Acknowledge that all people are equal, and realize anti-semitism isn't racism because you aren't a race. You segregate yourselves by religion and it's silly as well as self-destructive. ENOUGH WHINING already, oy vey.

Actually we are a Ethnic group within the Semitic race you bigot. Genetic testing has proven that over and over again. You just like to say we are so you feel better about your bigotry because it is ok to dislike a religion but not a race / ethnic group. We are a ethnic group within the Semitic race, we just happen to have a religion as well. Next you will be telling people from India they are really just Hindus and aren't a separate race.

Where did I say anything even remotely bigotted? You are not a race, you are a group of people who believe you are "chosen" and somehow better than all other peoples. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. But you go ahead and call anyone who disagrees with you an anti-semite, bigot or racist. Just because the words come from you're mouth that must make them fact. Heck, while your at it why not throw in troll and homophobe if we are going to start misusing labels out of ignorance. Tell me, why is it you have the words goyem and shiksa but there is no word in my language for "not male Canadian christian"? That sums up why people don't like you, you have words that mean "not jew(male)" and "not jew(female)".


Actually I called you a Bigot. You called us Christ Killers, and justified hatred... you are a bigot... so stfu your going to be late for your klan meeting.
 
2012-07-24 05:32:13 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: PonceAlyosha: Any my citation of the Justice Department backs it up. Congress doesn't have the power to do make decisions like that.

That is the Justice Department's assertion, just because they claim that doesn't actually make it true. The US Supreme Court will have to decide who is right and who is wrong.

Exactly... but they don't decide to rule on things, they have to be BROUGHT cases. If nobody is bringing them the case, what does that tell you? Neither side is willing to risk the erosion of power that actually adjudicating the dispute might involve, if the SCOTUS rules against them. So your assertion that it IS ILLEGAL... is wrong. Nobody wants to test it, so it stands as-is.


It's not just my assertion.. many members of Congress share that assertion.
 
2012-07-24 05:33:15 PM  

Magorn: Ergo Israel, under international law has no valid legal claim to Jerusalem, only a sentimental one. This is one of the reasons they've tried so very hard to ethnically cleanse East Jerusalem so they can claim the city is basically all Israeli anyway so why not "recognize the reality on the ground" -more or less the same argument they use everytime they steal more land for their "settlers


Couldn't you say that about anywhere?
 
2012-07-24 05:47:04 PM  

Eshkar: El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.

Actually the US does. The Jerusalem Embassy Act which went into effect Nov. 8 1995, which calls for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this law. So yes the US does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of the State of Israel. (if the Jews and Israel have so much control over the US why hasn't a US President implemented this law... because we don't and it's an antisemitic delusion... now go put on your foil hats (not directed at person I was responding to))

The CIA's Factbook disagrees with you. The US does not officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital.

As for the Jerusalem Embassy Act, Wikipedia sez: Since passage, the law has never been implemented, because of opposition from Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama, who view it as a Congressional infringement on the executive branch's constitutional authority over foreign policy; they have consistently claimed the presidential waiver on national security interests.

These are very easy to fact check. Why didn't you?

Just because the President doesn't like a law doesn't give him the right to ignore it. The CIA answers to the President. The US Congress has final say on all Foreign policy and has the right to overrule the President. Hence the reason Congress has to declare wars and ratify treaties. The Presidents since this law was passed and ratified by Congress have illegally chosen not to obey a Law passed by congress. But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.



From the U.S. State Department website: "Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950. The United States, like nearly all other countries, maintains its embassy in Tel Aviv."
Link

To the best of my knowledge, the US government has never recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in any official capacity. Obviously you know, the legality of the 1995 congressional bill has been disputed by all three administrations since, and unless you are a Constitutional lawyer, I am guessing that you are not an authority on what is legal or not legal in our foreign policy making decisions. I only say this, because you mention wikipedia being an untrusted source, and "because some random person on the internet said so" is even lower on the ladder of trusted sources, in my book.
 
2012-07-24 05:55:09 PM  

cc_rider: Eshkar: El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: To the best of my knowledge, the US government has never recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in any official capacity. Obviously you know, the legality of the 1995 congressional bill has been disputed by all three administrations since, and unless you are a Constitutional lawyer, I am guessing that you are not an authority on what is legal or not legal in our foreign policy making decisions. I only say this, because you mention wikipedia being an untrusted source, and "because some random person on the internet said so" is even lower on the ladder of trusted sources, in my book.


He seems determined to ignore the fact that he's trying to make us accept his uncited claims as fact while claiming his own privilege to offhandedly dismiss our cited references. Wonder how many arguments he thinks he can win doing that?
 
2012-07-24 06:01:41 PM  

cc_rider: Eshkar: El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: You know who else doesn't officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

Us.

Actually the US does. The Jerusalem Embassy Act which went into effect Nov. 8 1995, which calls for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. It just so happens that every US President since it was passed into law has illegally refused to enforce this law. So yes the US does recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the Capital of the State of Israel. (if the Jews and Israel have so much control over the US why hasn't a US President implemented this law... because we don't and it's an antisemitic delusion... now go put on your foil hats (not directed at person I was responding to))

The CIA's Factbook disagrees with you. The US does not officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital.

As for the Jerusalem Embassy Act, Wikipedia sez: Since passage, the law has never been implemented, because of opposition from Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama, who view it as a Congressional infringement on the executive branch's constitutional authority over foreign policy; they have consistently claimed the presidential waiver on national security interests.

These are very easy to fact check. Why didn't you?

Just because the President doesn't like a law doesn't give him the right to ignore it. The CIA answers to the President. The US Congress has final say on all Foreign policy and has the right to overrule the President. Hence the reason Congress has to declare wars and ratify treaties. The Presidents since this law was passed and ratified by Congress have illegally chosen not to obey a Law passed by congress. But hey I am glad you can make reference and "fact" checking via wikipedia. If my past college professors wouldn't accept it as a source neither will I.


From the U.S. State Department website: "Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950. The United States, like ne ...


The US Congress has, it just hasn't been enacted. So we have to wait for the US Supreme Court to weigh in on this. So get over it, Jerusalem is our Capital, if I had my way I would kick out any country that refused to place their embassy in Jerusalem.
 
2012-07-24 06:08:24 PM  

El Pachuco: cc_rider: Eshkar: El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: To the best of my knowledge, the US government has never recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in any official capacity. Obviously you know, the legality of the 1995 congressional bill has been disputed by all three administrations since, and unless you are a Constitutional lawyer, I am guessing that you are not an authority on what is legal or not legal in our foreign policy making decisions. I only say this, because you mention wikipedia being an untrusted source, and "because some random person on the internet said so" is even lower on the ladder of trusted sources, in my book.

He seems determined to ignore the fact that he's trying to make us accept his uncited claims as fact while claiming his own privilege to offhandedly dismiss our cited references. Wonder how many arguments he thinks he can win doing that?


ROFLMAO... you think anyone ever wins an argument... roflmao. Your just mad because I don't like Wikipedia.
 
2012-07-24 06:14:57 PM  

Eshkar: El Pachuco: cc_rider: Eshkar: El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: To the best of my knowledge, the US government has never recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in any official capacity. Obviously you know, the legality of the 1995 congressional bill has been disputed by all three administrations since, and unless you are a Constitutional lawyer, I am guessing that you are not an authority on what is legal or not legal in our foreign policy making decisions. I only say this, because you mention wikipedia being an untrusted source, and "because some random person on the internet said so" is even lower on the ladder of trusted sources, in my book.

He seems determined to ignore the fact that he's trying to make us accept his uncited claims as fact while claiming his own privilege to offhandedly dismiss our cited references. Wonder how many arguments he thinks he can win doing that?

ROFLMAO... you think anyone ever wins an argument... roflmao. Your just mad because I don't like Wikipedia.


I'm not mad at all - you're just embarrassing yourself by categorically dismissing one of the most commonly used sources here in Fark discussions, made especially awkward by your own complete lack of any cited references. That's because Wikipedia itself provides links to its sources. And yes, an online discussion does not require the same detail of direct references as a graduate thesis - go figure.

Wake up - it's 2012, not 2004. The "hurr durr Wikipedia is always wrong" thing no longer works.
 
2012-07-24 06:19:53 PM  
That's the most gym in 26 minutes article I have seen in awhile.
 
2012-07-24 06:25:17 PM  

El Pachuco: Eshkar: El Pachuco: cc_rider: Eshkar: El Pachuco: Eshkar: cc_rider: To the best of my knowledge, the US government has never recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in any official capacity. Obviously you know, the legality of the 1995 congressional bill has been disputed by all three administrations since, and unless you are a Constitutional lawyer, I am guessing that you are not an authority on what is legal or not legal in our foreign policy making decisions. I only say this, because you mention wikipedia being an untrusted source, and "because some random person on the internet said so" is even lower on the ladder of trusted sources, in my book.

He seems determined to ignore the fact that he's trying to make us accept his uncited claims as fact while claiming his own privilege to offhandedly dismiss our cited references. Wonder how many arguments he thinks he can win doing that?

ROFLMAO... you think anyone ever wins an argument... roflmao. Your just mad because I don't like Wikipedia.

I'm not mad at all - you're just embarrassing yourself by categorically dismissing one of the most commonly used sources here in Fark discussions, made especially awkward by your own complete lack of any cited references. That's because Wikipedia itself provides links to its sources. And yes, an online discussion does not require the same detail of direct references as a graduate thesis - go figure.

Wake up - it's 2012, not 2004. The "hurr durr Wikipedia is always wrong" thing no longer works.


Your embarrassing yourself continuing on this constant rant... move on you have run completely off topic. Jerusalem is Israel's capital; Benji Lovitt is hilarious, this article was great.
 
2012-07-24 06:26:38 PM  

Eshkar:
Did I say anything about Ethnic cleansing or forced relocation? No I said once the Palestinians have gained control of Jordan the Palestinians throughout the world could then decide if they wanted to move there... they could decide. I didn't say Israel would force them. I did say that Israel would remain Israel.. .all of Israel including the West bank. Ripping your country apart for ~20% of your population is ridiculous.


OK, I'm calling Poe.

Any actual Israeli would be acutely aware that 20% is just the proportion of Arab Israelis. That's about 1.5M people (for roughly 7.5M Israelis). It does not include actual Palestinians (i.e. the people who actually live in the West Bank and Gaza).

If you add in the Palestinians, you get another 3.7M Arabs. Leading to a total of 5.2M Arabs out of ~11.5M people living in Israel+Palestine. AKA about 45%, not 20%.

A large minority that is expected to become an actual majority pretty soon, BTW. Hence the frenzied attempts at somehow cutting up some kind of Bantustan out of Palestine, in which a maximum of Arabs could packed into a minimum amount of land.

As another poster pointed out, there's no way Israel can have all three of 1-keeping the land, 2-remaining Jewish/Hebrew, and 3-remaining a democracy. They can pick any 2 out of these 3. How it will end up is anyone's guess.
 
2012-07-24 06:33:22 PM  
The BBC is just following UK government policy. Canada doesn't recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital either. It seems like a minor issue but this is the kind of leverage the international community has to try to force Israel to the negotiating table to settle with the Palestinians, and a blog post photoshopping the finger onto Britain is not going to convince them to give up any of the very few cards they can play here.
 
2012-07-24 06:40:06 PM  

Eshkar:

The US Congress has, it just hasn't been enacted. So we have to wait for the US Supreme Court to weigh in on this. So get over it, Jerusalem is our Capital, if I had my way I would kick out any country that refused to place their embassy in Jerusalem.


Er, "get over it?" There's nothing to get over. I was simply stating a fact. That we do not officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital. In fact, you cannot even get a US passport that gives your birthplace as "Jerusalem, Israel". Sounds like you need to get over something: yourself.

I was also kind of curious on what expertise you based your allegation that the past three different presidential administrations have been acting "illegally". I believe that question now has been answered.

To think, all this shiat over some stupid article with a misleading headline. :/
 
2012-07-24 06:40:30 PM  

Alone in the Snark: Eshkar:
Did I say anything about Ethnic cleansing or forced relocation? No I said once the Palestinians have gained control of Jordan the Palestinians throughout the world could then decide if they wanted to move there... they could decide. I didn't say Israel would force them. I did say that Israel would remain Israel.. .all of Israel including the West bank. Ripping your country apart for ~20% of your population is ridiculous.

OK, I'm calling Poe.

Any actual Israeli would be acutely aware that 20% is just the proportion of Arab Israelis. That's about 1.5M people (for roughly 7.5M Israelis). It does not include actual Palestinians (i.e. the people who actually live in the West Bank and Gaza).

If you add in the Palestinians, you get another 3.7M Arabs. Leading to a total of 5.2M Arabs out of ~11.5M people living in Israel+Palestine. AKA about 45%, not 20%.

A large minority that is expected to become an actual majority pretty soon, BTW. Hence the frenzied attempts at somehow cutting up some kind of Bantustan out of Palestine, in which a maximum of Arabs could packed into a minimum amount of land.

As another poster pointed out, there's no way Israel can have all three of 1-keeping the land, 2-remaining Jewish/Hebrew, and 3-remaining a democracy. They can pick any 2 out of these 3. How it will end up is anyone's guess.



I'm not Israeli... yet, I am Jewish.
I did the math... using gasp wikipedia's figures.
This includes Israel, Gaza, and the Westbank
Total Population: 10,941,355
Jewish (Hebrew): 6435880.75 :: 58.8%
Muslim: 3928420.25 :: 35.9%
Other: 584902.8 :: 5.3%

Lets look at the West bank, Jews are having an average of ~5 kids per family while Muslims are having an average of ~3 kids per family.
Secondly, as I pointed out in this post which you made "..." which was strategically placed to skew what I said; the majority of Palestinians would choose to move to a free Democratic Palestinian run Jordan. So no Israel wouldn't have to choose, they can have all three; while giving the Palestinians their rightful country... where they currently already hold a majority.
 
2012-07-24 06:44:53 PM  

Alone in the Snark: Eshkar:
Did I say anything about Ethnic cleansing or forced relocation? No I said once the Palestinians have gained control of Jordan the Palestinians throughout the world could then decide if they wanted to move there... they could decide. I didn't say Israel would force them. I did say that Israel would remain Israel.. .all of Israel including the West bank. Ripping your country apart for ~20% of your population is ridiculous.

OK, I'm calling Poe.

Any actual Israeli would be acutely aware that 20% is just the proportion of Arab Israelis. That's about 1.5M people (for roughly 7.5M Israelis). It does not include actual Palestinians (i.e. the people who actually live in the West Bank and Gaza).

If you add in the Palestinians, you get another 3.7M Arabs. Leading to a total of 5.2M Arabs out of ~11.5M people living in Israel+Palestine. AKA about 45%, not 20%.

A large minority that is expected to become an actual majority pretty soon, BTW. Hence the frenzied attempts at somehow cutting up some kind of Bantustan out of Palestine, in which a maximum of Arabs could packed into a minimum amount of land.

As another poster pointed out, there's no way Israel can have all three of 1-keeping the land, 2-remaining Jewish/Hebrew, and 3-remaining a democracy. They can pick any 2 out of these 3. How it will end up is anyone's guess.


Yeah, but have you been paying attention to his fantasy world? In this new, idealized world, Palestinians will end up taking over Jordan and they'll all just go over there and harbor no ill-will toward the people who ghettoized them. To paraphrase what he said, a two-state solution: we get all the land and they take Jordan. It's pure fantasy.
 
2012-07-24 06:46:25 PM  

Eshkar: Lets look at the West bank, Jews are having an average of ~5 kids per family while Muslims are having an average of ~3 kids per family.
Secondly, as I pointed out in this post which you made "..." which was strategically placed to skew what I said; the majority of Palestinians would choose to move to a free Democratic Palestinian run Jordan. So no Israel wouldn't have to choose, they can have all three; while giving the Palestinians their rightful country... where they currently already hold a majority.


And what did I just say one post up? Pure fantasy. Might as well go with banging twins at the same time.
 
2012-07-24 06:50:42 PM  

YoungSwedishBlonde: Jesus, I understand your frustration but could you tone down the butthurt to about a 7?


It's Israel, be happy he's under 10
.
 
2012-07-24 07:04:43 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: Eshkar: Lets look at the West bank, Jews are having an average of ~5 kids per family while Muslims are having an average of ~3 kids per family.
Secondly, as I pointed out in this post which you made "..." which was strategically placed to skew what I said; the majority of Palestinians would choose to move to a free Democratic Palestinian run Jordan. So no Israel wouldn't have to choose, they can have all three; while giving the Palestinians their rightful country... where they currently already hold a majority.

And what did I just say one post up? Pure fantasy. Might as well go with banging twins at the same time.


Hey I have been with two twin guys... so maybe my fantasies just come true ;-)
 
2012-07-24 07:10:39 PM  
The phrase "suck it" became very popular when I was a teen, but it slowly faded from the spotlight. I am thrilled to see it making a comeback! I'll never forget my friend in high school who told our english teacher to "suck it" while doing the DX chop :D
 
2012-07-24 07:25:01 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Magorn: rgo Israel, under international law has no valid legal claim to Jerusalem, only a sentimental one. This is one of the reasons they've tried so very hard to ethnically cleanse East Jerusalem so they can claim the city is basically all Israeli anyway so why not "recognize the reality on the ground" -more or less the same argument they use everytime they steal more land for their "settlers"

Yeah, I mean I believe Israel has the right to exist as much as any other country but it's dickish things like this (ie: evicting Palestinians from their homes and then bulldozing their homes for yet another settlement) which make it really hard for me to defend them when they keep doing dickish things like that.

Is this a reasonable position to take?


I think it;s perfectly reasonable. Threads like this make me feel all Hudsony about the entire region and, to be 100% fair, the Arabian peninsula. Nuke Jerusalem, Mecca and Medina and let the farkwads pray to their sky wizards for a solution.

liam76: Klopfer: Israel has to face the fact that they occupied Jerusalem which according to the original plans of the UN wasn't going to be part of Israel OR Palestine.

So you are unfamiliar with West Jerusalem which has been part of Israel since 1948?


In contravention of UN agreements. Which is why Tel Aviv is recognised as the capital of Israel.

You argument only holds for east Jerusalem.

Yeah, I've skimmed the latter stages of this thread, but to try and imply that the BBC is anti-Jewish is farking retarded. Alan Yentob, an Iraqi-descended Jew has been controller of BBC 2 and BBC 1, and held various powerful positions at the Beeb. He did a pretty good radio documentary on the Jews of Baghdad too. Baghdad was 1/3rd Jewish up until the mid-20th century.

Some of the beeb's finest broadcasters, such as Stephen Fry and Louis Theroux are Jewish. Louis even got tear-gassed by the IDF while making his documentary on ultra-Zionists.

Yotam Ottolenghi made a delicious documentary for the beeb on the cuisine of Jerusalem.

And the beeb is often criticised for being too pro-Israel, so I guess it's doing something right.
 
2012-07-24 07:27:57 PM  
Eshkar: Nice, but Gandhi missed something very important, and sadly incorrectly applied his salutation on the Palestinians. The Jewish people aren't just a religious group as he implied in his closing, they are an ethnic group that was driven from their homeland. He also forgot that what is modern day Israel before the 1900's was a sparsely populated and sparsely cared about area, Jerusalem was the only place of concern to the Islamic rulers who constantly changed it from one hand to another, and Jerusalem was heavily neglected, they only liked saying they owned it, they didn't care about it. The only times in History where Israel became anything of importance was when the original owners (the Hebrew People) tried to take it back. So it's nice that Gandhi had Jewish friends; but his commentary was skewed by his own problems, his view of the Jewish people as a religious group and not an Ethnic group, and evident lack of historical context. Just as with the UN... I don't really care what Gandhi had to say about Israel.

But if you want qoutes from famous men... how about these:

John Adams
Farther I could find it in my heart to wish that you had been at the head of a hundred thousand Israelites . . . & marching with them into Judea & making a conquest of that country & restoring your nation to the dominion of it. For I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation. (Letter to Mordecai Manuel Noah, 1819) 1

John Quincy Adams

[I believe in the] rebuilding of Judea as an independent nation. (Letter to Major Mordecai Manuel Noah)

Abraham Lincoln

Not long after the Emancipation Proclamation, President Abraham Lincoln met a Canadian Christian Zionist, Henry Wentworth Monk, who expressed hope that Jews who were suffering oppression in Russia and Turkey be emancipated "by restoring them to their national home in Palestine." Lincoln said this was "a noble dream and one shared by many Americans." The President said his chiropodist was a Jew who "has so many times 'pu ...

Eshkar:

All good quotes from respectable historic figures. The issue remains that neither John Quincy Adams nor Abraham Lincoln had a clean track record in shaping our American history. I admit Adams wasn't a fan of slavery at the time, but it's easier to play holier than thou when the Native Indians had already been decimated and slavery was an accepted reality.

Let me add another quote, this time by someone who was offered the role of president of Israel:

I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. ...the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power....I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain - especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks... - Einstein speech in New York, 1938. Link

My family, too, was kicked out of Spain [as I recall you writing in an earlier post]. At that time, Jews and Arabs lived in relative harmony.

Do I think the Jewish people deserve their own land. You betchya. But it cannot be justified on the backs of an existing, native population. In fact, when Herzl first proposed a land for the Jewish people, British Uganda was proposed by Chamberlain [see the British Uganda Program]. Argentina was also proposed.

My bone to pick is not with the Jewish people. It is with the aggressive Zionists who put Israel and the Jewish people above all else, including laws and social equities. I do not justify any acts of terrorism against any Jews and Israelis. Gandhi saw it coming. If you take a land by force, you also have to defend it with force.

Even former Israeli soldiers are starting to realize this reality. Here's an interview with Yonotan Shapira^.
 
2012-07-24 07:47:38 PM  

Eshkar: On another note, United Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it; write your strongly worded letters and write your angry blog post about it; it won't change anything. Israel is here to stay, get used to it; the 2000 years of deeply seated antisemitism based on religious intolerance (yes even in you agnostics and atheist, you have been contaminated by 2000+ years of Christian hate, you may not realize it but your biased against Israel is actually rooted in a social norm of deep seated ...


At least until the Arabs out-breed you and you don't have a big enough army to defend it.
 
2012-07-24 08:01:13 PM  

lumiere: My family, too, was kicked out of Spain [as I recall you writing in an earlier post]. At that time, Jews and Arabs lived in relative harmony.

Do I think the Jewish people deserve their own land. You betchya. But it cannot be justified on the backs of an existing, native population. In fact, when Herzl first proposed a land for the Jewish people, British Uganda was proposed by Chamberlain [see the British Uganda Program]. Argentina was also proposed.

My bone to pick is not with the Jewish people. It is with the aggressive Zionists who put Israel and the Jewish people above all else, including laws and social equities. I do not justify any acts of terrorism against any Jews and Israelis. Gandhi saw it coming. If you take a land by force, you also have to defend it with force.

Even former Israeli soldiers are starting to realize this reality. Here's an interview with Yonotan Shapira^.


All very good points; which I understand. As pointed out by Einstein the problem with Judaism and Israel, modern Judaism was designed for the Diaspro, hence why I think Israel needs to abandon the Jewish nation stance and embrace a more encompassing label as the Hebrew Nation. Make it much more Ethnic based and help diminish the confusion between ethnically Jewish and Jewish faith.
Second sadly the eggs are already broken, we can't put them back in their shells, what we can do is work toward a more peaceful existence with the Palestinians. I think Israel should work with the Palestinian people in freeing the 70% of the population of Jordon who are oppressed Palestinians, helping them in covert and overt ways toward a democratic Jordan that will be run by the majority which happen to be Palestinians. Then the Palestinians would have a country of their own. Palestinians within Israel (including west bank) could then decide if they want to go to the Palestinian country. I feel the majority will, and many old wounds will be healed because Israel worked toward giving them a home and country of their own, allowing them respect and helping them fight in a social (and yes possible literal) revolution which ended the suffering and oppression of their family and friends in Jordan.
 
2012-07-24 08:10:55 PM  
I'm actually from Fingerhampton so I'm getting a kick out of these replies
 
2012-07-24 08:14:03 PM  
One more time:
I'm actually from Fingerhampton so I'm getting a kick out of these replies
♫ Secret Asian man♫
 
2012-07-24 08:51:41 PM  

Shatner's Bassoon: This is all you can really expect from liam "IRA are the good terrorists" 76; he's not happy unless he's whining about something.


Care to try and back that claim up, or are you just another lying sack of shiat, who when confronted about a double standard towards Israel has to make up lies about the person who points it out?


Shatner's Bassoon: They corrected both profiles to a more balanced and internationally acceptable wording. Move on man, move on


They went from blatant propaganda from Palestine and ignoring Israels actual capitol, to propaganda from Palestine and a bad spin on Israel's capitol. IT is still BS.

If they wanted to be balanced they would mention where both states want their capitol to be, where both states seat of power are, and where the embassies for both are. The fact that they only answered those questions for one and phrased no other countries capitol like that) side shows they are being biased and cherry picking facts to suit their propaganda.
 
2012-07-24 09:01:49 PM  

iron de havilland: In contravention of UN agreements. Which is why Tel Aviv is recognised as the capital of Israel.



No. West Jerusalem has belonged to Israel since 1948. The UN has no beef with this.

East Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank are what people are talking about when they bring up the UN and the pre-1976 borders.
 
2012-07-24 09:04:44 PM  

liam76: iron de havilland: In contravention of UN agreements. Which is why Tel Aviv is recognised as the capital of Israel.


No. West Jerusalem has belonged to Israel since 1948. The UN has no beef with this.

East Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank are what people are talking about when they bring up the UN and the pre-1976 borders.


So why don't more countries recognize Jersusalem as Israel's capitol then?
 
2012-07-24 09:06:51 PM  

liam76: They went from blatant propaganda from Palestine and ignoring Israels actual capitol, to propaganda from Palestine and a bad spin on Israel's capitol. IT is still BS.


Give it up already! You're just starting to sound whiny and butthurt now.

Outside of Israel, very few countries recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capitol.

So quit with the necessary butthurt over the BBC saying something that most of the world's countries agree on.
 
2012-07-24 09:11:25 PM  
So let me ask this liam76. What position shouldl the BBC have taken in regards to the capitol of Israel and Palestine?
 
2012-07-24 09:37:16 PM  
Jewish ladies are definitely attractive.
 
2012-07-24 09:40:31 PM  

liam76: iron de havilland: In contravention of UN agreements. Which is why Tel Aviv is recognised as the capital of Israel.


No. West Jerusalem has belonged to Israel since 1948. The UN has no beef with this.


Please.

Go spend a few minutes at wikipedia, look up corpus separatum, and you'll find out why most western nations don't regard Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
 
2012-07-24 10:52:46 PM  
FTFA: "Journalism is a serious field"

weknowmemes.com
 
2012-07-25 01:38:12 AM  

Ohlookabutterfly: Fart_Machine: Blogger whining about BBC comes off like a Ritalin addicted 13 year old complaining about people dissing dub step.

Every time I read something like this I visualize that farked up karate kid from Smokin Aces.

Is there a Jew alive who isn't a professional victim? Maybe you Christ killers would be more popular if you didn't have such an "us or them" attitude. Acknowledge that all people are equal, and realize anti-semitism isn't racism because you aren't a race. You segregate yourselves by religion and it's silly as well as self-destructive. ENOUGH WHINING already, oy vey.



Because nothing says "I hate whining" like a rant ending in all-caps.

And of course, nothing says "I hate us-versus-them attitudes" like collective-guilt slurs like "Christ killers.

I'd almost believe you were going for some sort of comedic performance, if it wasn't for your other posts confirming you're sincerely this obtuse.
 
2012-07-25 01:47:06 AM  
It's funny how something like a missing quotation mark makes it through several previews, but is always immediately apparent after posting. Darn uncooperative brain.
 
Heb
2012-07-25 02:56:03 AM  

Eshkar: lumiere: My family, too, was kicked out of Spain [as I recall you writing in an earlier post]. At that time, Jews and Arabs lived in relative harmony.

Do I think the Jewish people deserve their own land. You betchya. But it cannot be justified on the backs of an existing, native population. In fact, when Herzl first proposed a land for the Jewish people, British Uganda was proposed by Chamberlain [see the British Uganda Program]. Argentina was also proposed.

My bone to pick is not with the Jewish people. It is with the aggressive Zionists who put Israel and the Jewish people above all else, including laws and social equities. I do not justify any acts of terrorism against any Jews and Israelis. Gandhi saw it coming. If you take a land by force, you also have to defend it with force.

Even former Israeli soldiers are starting to realize this reality. Here's an interview with Yonotan Shapira^.

All very good points; which I understand. As pointed out by Einstein the problem with Judaism and Israel, modern Judaism was designed for the Diaspro, hence why I think Israel needs to abandon the Jewish nation stance and embrace a more encompassing label as the Hebrew Nation. Make it much more Ethnic based and help diminish the confusion between ethnically Jewish and Jewish faith.
Second sadly the eggs are already broken, we can't put them back in their shells, what we can do is work toward a more peaceful existence with the Palestinians. I think Israel should work with the Palestinian people in freeing the 70% of the population of Jordon who are oppressed Palestinians, helping them in covert and overt ways toward a democratic Jordan that will be run by the majority which happen to be Palestinians. Then the Palestinians would have a country of their own. Palestinians within Israel (including west bank) could then decide if they want to go to the Palestinian country. I feel the majority will, and many old wounds will be healed because Israel worked toward giving them a home and country of their own, allowing them respect and helping them fight in a social (and yes possible literal) revolution which ended the suffering and oppression of their family and friends in Jordan.


You want an ethnically Jewish state? Blimey. Nice to see a good old fashioned racial bigot.
 
2012-07-25 06:47:43 AM  

Mrtraveler01: So why don't more countries recognize Jersusalem as Israel's capitol then


I have adressed this a number of times. This is not an excuse for what the BBC did. If it were the case they wouldn;t have pur Palestine's Captiol as Jerusalem, a place no country recognizes, a place Palestine has no govt, etc.


Mrtraveler01: Give it up already! You're just starting to sound whiny and butthurt now.


And you are sounding like a misinformed dishonest piece of shiat who has been cherry picking lines to respond to and has ignored the number of mistakes you made that I pointed out.


iron de havilland: Please.

Go spend a few minutes at wikipedia, look up corpus separatum, and you'll find out why most western nations don't regard Jerusalem as Israel's capital


You talking about resolution 194? The one that guaranteed free access to the Holy Places? How did that work out from 1948-1967? What steps has the UN ever taken to administer Jerusalem?

But you know what, I would be fine witht his rational if they didn't list Jerusalem as the capitol of Palestine. This is a clear double standard that you and Mrtraveler continue to ignore.
 
2012-07-25 09:21:15 AM  

Heb: You want an ethnically Jewish state? Blimey. Nice to see a good old fashioned racial bigot.


Ethnicity and race are two separate things. Arab states are Arab states, Italy is an Italian state... it is Italian in Ethnic roots. Greece is ethnically Greek, and Israeli's are Ethnically Jewish. There is no bigotry there... nice try being an ass but you fail; my point is to focus more on the ethnic Jewish (Hebrew) roots of our people... who formed the country and not on the religious side so people will quit thinking the nation of Israel was formed around a religion when it was really formed around the Ethnic group that is the Jewish People. Asshat
 
Heb
2012-07-25 09:36:17 AM  

Eshkar: Heb: You want an ethnically Jewish state? Blimey. Nice to see a good old fashioned racial bigot.

Ethnicity and race are two separate things. Arab states are Arab states, Italy is an Italian state... it is Italian in Ethnic roots. Greece is ethnically Greek, and Israeli's are Ethnically Jewish. There is no bigotry there... nice try being an ass but you fail; my point is to focus more on the ethnic Jewish (Hebrew) roots of our people... who formed the country and not on the religious side so people will quit thinking the nation of Israel was formed around a religion when it was really formed around the Ethnic group that is the Jewish People. Asshat


Dress it up how you like, you want a racial state and to be frank you sicken me.

I live in England. We have a far-right arsehole here who goes on about how Britain should be for the ethnically British. Frankly I think people like him and you are what's wrong with the world.
 
2012-07-25 10:02:45 AM  

Heb: Eshkar: Heb: You want an ethnically Jewish state? Blimey. Nice to see a good old fashioned racial bigot.

Ethnicity and race are two separate things. Arab states are Arab states, Italy is an Italian state... it is Italian in Ethnic roots. Greece is ethnically Greek, and Israeli's are Ethnically Jewish. There is no bigotry there... nice try being an ass but you fail; my point is to focus more on the ethnic Jewish (Hebrew) roots of our people... who formed the country and not on the religious side so people will quit thinking the nation of Israel was formed around a religion when it was really formed around the Ethnic group that is the Jewish People. Asshat

Dress it up how you like, you want a racial state and to be frank you sicken me.

I live in England. We have a far-right arsehole here who goes on about how Britain should be for the ethnically British. Frankly I think people like him and you are what's wrong with the world.


No I want a Jewish state where Jews can go and not face persecution like they have every where else for the past 2000 years. Your ignorance sickens me. Again being ethnically Jewish isn't a race, it is an ethnic group... two separate things. Israel is a Jewish state, does that mean I want only Jews there, no. But it was founded for Jews, a safe haven for the Jewish people. If you can't grasp that without yelling race then you are daft.
 
2012-07-25 10:31:39 AM  

liam76: Care to try and back that claim up, or are you just another lying sack of shiat, who when confronted about a double standard towards Israel has to make up lies about the person who points it out?


Dude, you're whining up and down this thread. It's all you do in every thread I've ever seen you in. Sorry for pointing it out, but it's no lie. Neither is the fact that Jerusalem is not internationally recognized as being any country's capital city, a fact which the corrected BBC website now reflects. Get over it. Move on and quit whining.
 
Heb
2012-07-25 10:42:12 AM  

Eshkar: Heb: Eshkar: Heb: You want an ethnically Jewish state? Blimey. Nice to see a good old fashioned racial bigot.

Ethnicity and race are two separate things. Arab states are Arab states, Italy is an Italian state... it is Italian in Ethnic roots. Greece is ethnically Greek, and Israeli's are Ethnically Jewish. There is no bigotry there... nice try being an ass but you fail; my point is to focus more on the ethnic Jewish (Hebrew) roots of our people... who formed the country and not on the religious side so people will quit thinking the nation of Israel was formed around a religion when it was really formed around the Ethnic group that is the Jewish People. Asshat

Dress it up how you like, you want a racial state and to be frank you sicken me.

I live in England. We have a far-right arsehole here who goes on about how Britain should be for the ethnically British. Frankly I think people like him and you are what's wrong with the world.

No I want a Jewish state where Jews can go and not face persecution like they have every where else for the past 2000 years. Your ignorance sickens me. Again being ethnically Jewish isn't a race, it is an ethnic group... two separate things. Israel is a Jewish state, does that mean I want only Jews there, no. But it was founded for Jews, a safe haven for the Jewish people. If you can't grasp that without yelling race then you are daft.


Yes, because the only way to avoid persecution is to create an ethnically segregated state where you can ensure you are the persecutors rather than the persecuted.

Well done you. If only homosexuals, gypsies and women had come up with ideas for their own countries too, the silly billies.

You're a bigot, plain and simple. Dress it up any way you like and it still comes out the same.
 
2012-07-25 10:51:20 AM  

Shatner's Bassoon: Dude, you're whining up and down this thread. It's all you do in every thread I've ever seen you in.


The lie I was talking about was the "IRA are the good terrorists", but you aren't that stupid and so I am going to take that as a yes, you are a lying sack of shiat.

And I am sorry you think me pointing out a clear double standard is "whining" probably becasue it relates to Israel and you are A-ok with double standards against them.

Shatner's Bassoon: Neither is the fact that Jerusalem is not internationally recognized as being any country's capital city, a fact which the corrected BBC website now reflects.


Still too stupid to get it, huh? Or are you just doubling down on your dishonesty?

They went from blatant propaganda from Palestine and ignoring Israels actual capitol, to propaganda from Palestine and a bad spin on Israel's capitol. It is still BS.

If they wanted to be balanced they would mention where both states want their capitol to be, where both states seat of power are, and where the embassies for both are. The fact that they only answered those questions for one and phrased no other countries capitol like that) side shows they are being biased and cherry picking facts to suit their propaganda.


Until they do that bolded part they are using a double standard. Until you can admit that you are too stupid/dishonest to waste my time with.
 
2012-07-25 01:35:49 PM  

liam76: If they wanted to be balanced they would mention where both states want their capitol to be, where both states seat of power are, and where the embassies for both are.


Except the BBC website now reflects that.

But if you want to be butthurt that there's an asterisk next to Jerusalem when it talks about the capitol of Israel, who am I to stop you.
 
2012-07-25 01:57:05 PM  

Mrtraveler01: liam76: If they wanted to be balanced they would mention where both states want their capitol to be, where both states seat of power are, and where the embassies for both are.

Except the BBC website now reflects that.


So are you a liar or just stupid?

Palestine
Intended seat of government
East Jerusalem. Ramallah serves as administrative capital.


Israel
Seat of government
Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv.



Mrtraveler01: But if you want to be butthurt that there's an asterisk next to Jerusalem when it talks about the capitol of Israel, who am I to stop you.


As has been pointed out to you many times, I am not mad about the "asterisk" I am mad about the double standards. Which you have once again shown you are too stupid or dishoesnt to recognize.
 
2012-07-25 01:57:42 PM  

liam76: The lie I was talking about was the "IRA are the good terrorists", but you aren't that stupid and so I am going to take that as a yes, you are a lying sack of shiat.


Oh that, lol. Come off it, that's been beaten to death a million times before in previous threads, where you spend hours pointing out that the IRA have used a telephone once or twice to warn about their bombs, so they're not as bad as muslims. I get that you don't understand everyone else's problem with your view on this, so we might as well let that old chestnut slide for now.

And I am sorry you think me pointing out a clear double standard is "whining" probably becasue it relates to Israel and you are A-ok with double standards against them.

I sense an anti-semite card about to get whipped out here, to which I would only laugh so don't bother. I'm pointing out that you're whining, not because there's any double standards going on here of which I approve, but because you're whining over something unbelievably inconsequential, as is usually the case with you. Someone typed something on a couple of seldom viewed pages on the BBC website that weren't what a hardened uber-Israelite would approve of, but were entirely consistent with the internationally acceptable stance on a complicated and divisive issue. Whatever they type there will inevitably offend someone or other's viewpoint, and to be honest I'm not surprised that the whiniest little pussy to take offense was you. Once more, for your own blood-pressure's sake; move on.
 
2012-07-25 02:12:10 PM  

Heb: Eshkar: Heb: Eshkar: Heb: You want an ethnically Jewish state? Blimey. Nice to see a good old fashioned racial bigot.

Ethnicity and race are two separate things. Arab states are Arab states, Italy is an Italian state... it is Italian in Ethnic roots. Greece is ethnically Greek, and Israeli's are Ethnically Jewish. There is no bigotry there... nice try being an ass but you fail; my point is to focus more on the ethnic Jewish (Hebrew) roots of our people... who formed the country and not on the religious side so people will quit thinking the nation of Israel was formed around a religion when it was really formed around the Ethnic group that is the Jewish People. Asshat

Dress it up how you like, you want a racial state and to be frank you sicken me.

I live in England. We have a far-right arsehole here who goes on about how Britain should be for the ethnically British. Frankly I think people like him and you are what's wrong with the world.

No I want a Jewish state where Jews can go and not face persecution like they have every where else for the past 2000 years. Your ignorance sickens me. Again being ethnically Jewish isn't a race, it is an ethnic group... two separate things. Israel is a Jewish state, does that mean I want only Jews there, no. But it was founded for Jews, a safe haven for the Jewish people. If you can't grasp that without yelling race then you are daft.

Yes, because the only way to avoid persecution is to create an ethnically segregated state where you can ensure you are the persecutors rather than the persecuted.

Well done you. If only homosexuals, gypsies and women had come up with ideas for their own countries too, the silly billies.

You're a bigot, plain and simple. Dress it up any way you like and it still comes out the same.


Well then I guess almost every single other country in the world is a bigot. I don't hear you barking at Saudi Arabia... where I can't even enter because I am Jewish. Get an education you backwards wanker, Israel doesn't persecute anyone, Israel is forced into policies to protect itself from nutjobs that like to blow themselves up. Israel isn't an ethnically segregated state, and that isn't what I said and you know it you moronic dip. Israel was formed by the Jewish people yes but it isn't segregated... but you wouldn't know that because evidently you haven't left your fantasy world. Please don't excuse your bigotry against Israel by justifying with twisted logic. Oh and don't forget China... they are a bunch of bigots according to your logic, there country is full of ethnically Chinese people. Get a clue. Conversation over.
 
2012-07-25 02:18:23 PM  

Shatner's Bassoon: Oh that, lol. Come off it, that's been beaten to death a million times before in previous threads, where you spend hours pointing out that the IRA have used a telephone once or twice to warn about their bombs, so they're not as bad as muslims. I get that you don't understand everyone else's problem with your view on this, so we might as well let that old chestnut slide for now.


Unless you can point out where Is aid they are "good" you are just keeping up with a lie that has been pointed out to you.

Also, I compared IRS a terrorist group, to muslims? Keep gong with those lies.

Is it even possible for you to post without lying?


Shatner's Bassoon: were entirely consistent with the internationally acceptable stance on a complicated and divisive issue.


The capitol of Palestine as East Jerusalem is consistent with the internationally acceptable stance?

I am guessing that is a "No" to the above question about your problem with lying. You can't post without lying, in fact you seem incapable of going through a single response in your posts without at least one lie.

As for me being the "whiniest little pussy" over something this inconsequential, what does that make someone like you who comes here to argue with me about it, and has to lie to make their case?
 
2012-07-25 02:19:42 PM  

liam76: Also, I compared IRSA a terrorist group, to muslims? Keep gong with those lies.


Doh.
 
2012-07-25 04:00:06 PM  

ZombiesYall: Christian hate? Check your facts. Nobody loves Israel more than fire-breathing Baptist preachers


I think you're misinterpreting that particular relationship.

You see the *actual* reason for Christians supporting Jews, is that they want to make sure the Jews are all gathered up in Israel so that so that their loving God can come along and smite their heathen asses.


And then all the hipster, wanna-be Christians see these other Christians supporting Israel, and they start supporting Israel too. Only most of them are completely oblivious that the Christians they are sheeping after are simply giving the Jews a shiat-eating grin while they coral them up for the apocalypse.

That is of course, if the Bible wasn't a complete work of fiction written by ancient monkeys, completely nullifying both religions. Which of course, it is.
 
Heb
2012-07-25 07:20:48 PM  

Eshkar: Heb: Eshkar: Heb: Eshkar: Heb: You want an ethnically Jewish state? Blimey. Nice to see a good old fashioned racial bigot.

Ethnicity and race are two separate things. Arab states are Arab states, Italy is an Italian state... it is Italian in Ethnic roots. Greece is ethnically Greek, and Israeli's are Ethnically Jewish. There is no bigotry there... nice try being an ass but you fail; my point is to focus more on the ethnic Jewish (Hebrew) roots of our people... who formed the country and not on the religious side so people will quit thinking the nation of Israel was formed around a religion when it was really formed around the Ethnic group that is the Jewish People. Asshat

Dress it up how you like, you want a racial state and to be frank you sicken me.

I live in England. We have a far-right arsehole here who goes on about how Britain should be for the ethnically British. Frankly I think people like him and you are what's wrong with the world.

No I want a Jewish state where Jews can go and not face persecution like they have every where else for the past 2000 years. Your ignorance sickens me. Again being ethnically Jewish isn't a race, it is an ethnic group... two separate things. Israel is a Jewish state, does that mean I want only Jews there, no. But it was founded for Jews, a safe haven for the Jewish people. If you can't grasp that without yelling race then you are daft.

Yes, because the only way to avoid persecution is to create an ethnically segregated state where you can ensure you are the persecutors rather than the persecuted.

Well done you. If only homosexuals, gypsies and women had come up with ideas for their own countries too, the silly billies.

You're a bigot, plain and simple. Dress it up any way you like and it still comes out the same.

Well then I guess almost every single other country in the world is a bigot. I don't hear you barking at Saudi Arabia... where I can't even enter because I am Jewish. Get an education you backwards wanker, Israel doesn't persecute anyone, Israel is forced into policies to protect itself from nutjobs that like to blow themselves up. Israel isn't an ethnically segregated state, and that isn't what I said and you know it you moronic dip. Israel was formed by the Jewish people yes but it isn't segregated... but you wouldn't know that because evidently you haven't left your fantasy world. Please don't excuse your bigotry against Israel by justifying with twisted logic. Oh and don't forget China... they are a bunch of bigots according to your logic, there country is full of ethnically Chinese people. Get a clue. Conversation over.


China and Saudi Arabia? You've got me there. Israel is at least as respectful of human rights as those two.

But you are a bigot. I don't care if you're Jewish by the way (and you haven't stopped to think if I am or not), I just find your vile clamour for a nation of ethnic purity disgusting.

Thankfully many Israelis don't think as you do.
 
2012-07-25 07:52:44 PM  

Heb: China and Saudi Arabia? You've got me there. Israel is at least as respectful of human rights as those two.

But you are a bigot. I don't care if you're Jewish by the way (and you haven't stopped to think if I am or not), I just find your vile clamour for a nation of ethnic purity disgusting.

Thankfully many Israelis don't think as you do.


...wow you are a dolt... go back and read what I wrote, no where did I call for ethnic purity... dumbass. I was commenting on the nation label of Israel as the "Jewish" Nation. I said I felt we should call it a Hebrew nation instead to keep people from thinking it is a nation based on a religion (theocracy) and not on the national ethnic identity of the Jewish people. No where did I call for ethnic purity... FARKING DUMBASS... hooked on phonics might help you. Clot pole
 
Heb
2012-07-26 07:21:05 AM  

Eshkar: Heb: China and Saudi Arabia? You've got me there. Israel is at least as respectful of human rights as those two.

But you are a bigot. I don't care if you're Jewish by the way (and you haven't stopped to think if I am or not), I just find your vile clamour for a nation of ethnic purity disgusting.

Thankfully many Israelis don't think as you do.

...wow you are a dolt... go back and read what I wrote, no where did I call for ethnic purity... dumbass. I was commenting on the nation label of Israel as the "Jewish" Nation. I said I felt we should call it a Hebrew nation instead to keep people from thinking it is a nation based on a religion (theocracy) and not on the national ethnic identity of the Jewish people. No where did I call for ethnic purity... FARKING DUMBASS... hooked on phonics might help you. Clot pole


I went back and read what you wrote, and it sickened me even more the second time round. Do you actually think suggesting a country based on ethnicity rather than religion is laudable, or an improvement? At least the devout genuinely believe the land is given by God (as theologically bizarre as this is), you're suggesting some farcical situation where particular peculiarities of DNA are the criteria for citizenship. It is as vile as it is ridiculous.

You're a sick man. Flinging insults at me won't change that. Still, like most bigots I can see you are self-satisfied in your prejudice and superiority so I doubt anything I say will change your view. I wish you happiness in your hate.
 
2012-07-26 11:46:24 AM  

Heb: Eshkar: Heb: China and Saudi Arabia? You've got me there. Israel is at least as respectful of human rights as those two.

But you are a bigot. I don't care if you're Jewish by the way (and you haven't stopped to think if I am or not), I just find your vile clamour for a nation of ethnic purity disgusting.

Thankfully many Israelis don't think as you do.

...wow you are a dolt... go back and read what I wrote, no where did I call for ethnic purity... dumbass. I was commenting on the nation label of Israel as the "Jewish" Nation. I said I felt we should call it a Hebrew nation instead to keep people from thinking it is a nation based on a religion (theocracy) and not on the national ethnic identity of the Jewish people. No where did I call for ethnic purity... FARKING DUMBASS... hooked on phonics might help you. Clot pole

I went back and read what you wrote, and it sickened me even more the second time round. Do you actually think suggesting a country based on ethnicity rather than religion is laudable, or an improvement? At least the devout genuinely believe the land is given by God (as theologically bizarre as this is), you're suggesting some farcical situation where particular peculiarities of DNA are the criteria for citizenship. It is as vile as it is ridiculous.

You're a sick man. Flinging insults at me won't change that. Still, like most bigots I can see you are self-satisfied in your prejudice and superiority so I doubt anything I say will change your view. I wish you happiness in your hate.


Wow you are a complete and total moron... you truly don't know what hate is. So I will leave you with a hardy go fark yourself. Anti-Israel trash
 
Heb
2012-07-26 12:03:29 PM  

Eshkar: Heb: Eshkar: Heb: China and Saudi Arabia? You've got me there. Israel is at least as respectful of human rights as those two.

But you are a bigot. I don't care if you're Jewish by the way (and you haven't stopped to think if I am or not), I just find your vile clamour for a nation of ethnic purity disgusting.

Thankfully many Israelis don't think as you do.

...wow you are a dolt... go back and read what I wrote, no where did I call for ethnic purity... dumbass. I was commenting on the nation label of Israel as the "Jewish" Nation. I said I felt we should call it a Hebrew nation instead to keep people from thinking it is a nation based on a religion (theocracy) and not on the national ethnic identity of the Jewish people. No where did I call for ethnic purity... FARKING DUMBASS... hooked on phonics might help you. Clot pole

I went back and read what you wrote, and it sickened me even more the second time round. Do you actually think suggesting a country based on ethnicity rather than religion is laudable, or an improvement? At least the devout genuinely believe the land is given by God (as theologically bizarre as this is), you're suggesting some farcical situation where particular peculiarities of DNA are the criteria for citizenship. It is as vile as it is ridiculous.

You're a sick man. Flinging insults at me won't change that. Still, like most bigots I can see you are self-satisfied in your prejudice and superiority so I doubt anything I say will change your view. I wish you happiness in your hate.

Wow you are a complete and total moron... you truly don't know what hate is. So I will leave you with a hardy go fark yourself. Anti-Israel trash


I don't mind you having a pop at me, but I won't have you dragging Israel into it. I don't believe you're Israeli, and your vile bigotry is not representative of increasing numbers of Israelis or Jews.

Israel needs security and peace with its neighbours. It doesn't need far-right bigots like you clamouring for a nation based on ethnicity. God knows the system of government gives them disproportionate influence in the Knesset as it is.

Out of curiosity, did you do your bit and serve or do you cower spouting your hate in safety from the US for a country you have given up nothing for, yet feel free to dictate to?
 
2012-07-26 12:26:33 PM  

Heb: I don't mind you having a pop at me, but I won't have you dragging Israel into it. I don't believe you're Israeli, and your vile bigotry is not representative of increasing numbers of Israelis or Jews.

Israel needs security and peace with its neighbours. It doesn't need far-right bigots like you clamouring for a nation based on ethnicity. God knows the system of government gives them disproportionate influence in the Knesset as it is.

Out of curiosity, did you do your bit and serve or do you cower spouting your hate in safety from the US for a country you have given up nothing for, yet feel free to dictate to?



One, I'm not far right, far from it; I am a Zionist.

Two: If you know anything about Israel you will know that Israel recently passed a law requiring any new citizen to take a loyalty oath which requires recognition that Israel is a Jewish nation. When they say that they aren't referring to the Religion, they are referring to the Ethnic Jewish identity of the State of Israel. I was pointing out that I would rather have it be stated as a Hebrew Nation to lower confusion between the Judaism as a faith and Jewish as an ethnic group which is a common problem. Many Israelis are secular and don't identify with the Jewish Faith.

Three: The government of Israel is run by Jews because... Israel is a Jewish Nation, the majority of people in Israel are Jewish (both religion and ethnic); so democratically of course they will have the larger voice in the governing body.

Four: No I haven't served in Israel yet, In the next year or so I will be making Aliyah and then I will serve, though I have spent significant time there.

What I am speaking of isn't hatred, it is commentary on current facts on the ground. If you noticed my post earlier spoke about helping the Palestinians majority in Jordan which is oppressed and helping them establish a viable Palestinian state (which they want) in Jordan... seeing that they make up 70% of the population in Jordan. Once that has been accomplished the Palestinians in Israel would be free to choose if they wanted to stay or go to Jordan and take part in the Palestinian state. Those that stay would be choosing to take on full Israeli citizenship and the responsibilities and privileges that comes with. Living in a democrat state where their voices would be heard equally.

The insults were to see where you truly stand... I find when people are pissed off the truth comes out.
 
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