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(Wolfram Alpha)   Thanks to WolframAlpha and CNN, we know that the Challenger was traveling at warp 2.38 when it exploded   (wolframalpha.com) divider line 54
    More: Interesting, WolframAlpha, CNN  
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4756 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Jul 2012 at 10:30 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-24 09:20:36 AM
Does it tell you how fast the ships on Babylon 5 go though?
 
2012-07-24 09:37:17 AM
I guess the warp field lost stability, which caused catastrophic stresses in the structural integrity field that not even an inverse tachyon beam could counteract
 
2012-07-24 09:50:48 AM

serial_crusher: Does it tell you how fast the ships on Babylon 5 go though?


The ships in Babylon 5 actually only ever travel at typical Newtonian speeds, but instead exist in a universe where the law of conservation of mass/energy can be bent to allow identical spaceships to exist in two places in spacetime simultaneously when said ship travels through a jump. The paradox is resolved when light from the original spaceship reaches the jump destination and the ships resolve into a third identical ship that contains all of the information from all ships created by the jump.

/only watched like 3 episodes of Babylon 5
//so i'm just making shiat up
 
2012-07-24 10:33:37 AM

Jubeebee: serial_crusher: Does it tell you how fast the ships on Babylon 5 go though?

The ships in Babylon 5 actually only ever travel at typical Newtonian speeds, but instead exist in a universe where the law of conservation of mass/energy can be bent to allow identical spaceships to exist in two places in spacetime simultaneously when said ship travels through a jump. The paradox is resolved when light from the original spaceship reaches the jump destination and the ships resolve into a third identical ship that contains all of the information from all ships created by the jump.

/only watched like 3 episodes of Babylon 5
//so i'm just making shiat up


The jumpgates weren't quite that complicated. They just took you into hyperspace, where you're still moving slower than light, but light moves a lot faster, or something like that.
But, the joke behind my comment is that there's one episode where they complain about how long it takes to mail stuff to B5 from earth (long enough that the thought of somebody having real eggs and bacon was unfathomable), but then later in that same episode Sheridan takes the White Star out to Mars and back within a few hours.
So some fan asked how fast exactly the ships travel, and JMS answered that they travel "at the speed of plot"
 
2012-07-24 10:34:48 AM
The shuttle's destruction was obviously a Borg plot to prevent First Contact.
 
2012-07-24 10:36:34 AM
You mean Columbia, right?
 
2012-07-24 10:36:42 AM
What does the challenger have to do with that search?
 
2012-07-24 10:37:39 AM
My 18 in c warps to the left.
 
2012-07-24 10:38:43 AM
Someone actually calculated the speed of warp? Does Star Trek and its spin-offs ever maintain any consistency with that number and its relation to interstellar travel instead of just whatever the plot required at the time?
 
2012-07-24 10:40:02 AM
The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.
 
2012-07-24 10:48:47 AM
Look the Columbia is not destroyed, that is just a cover up. What really happened is they hit a worm hole on re-entry, it happens like that sometimes, and are now in some distant part of the galaxy.
 
2012-07-24 10:49:38 AM

HawkEyes: What does the challenger have to do with that search?


Someone post the CNN graphic saying that Challenger (or was it Columbia?) was going 18 times the speed of light... as opposed to 18what times the speed of sound. That's the joke.
 
2012-07-24 10:49:46 AM

4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.


TNG & Voyager (and DS9) all use the same warp scale, with warp 10 = infinity. TOS was different.
 
2012-07-24 10:50:55 AM

4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.


Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc
 
2012-07-24 10:52:39 AM

LazarusLong42: HawkEyes: What does the challenger have to do with that search?

Someone post the CNN graphic saying that Challenger (or was it Columbia?) was going 18 times the speed of light... as opposed to 18what times the speed of sound. That's the joke.


As requested.

sprott.physics.wisc.edu
 
2012-07-24 10:53:23 AM

4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.


Yup
They changed the warp scale in TNG. During TOS is was 'warp speed cubed' to get your speed. In TNG it became a logarithmic scale that maxed out at warp 10. Up until warp 3, the speed was similar, but after that, the TNG scale was faster.
 
2012-07-24 10:55:08 AM

LazarusLong42: HawkEyes: What does the challenger have to do with that search?

Someone post the CNN graphic saying that Challenger (or was it Columbia?) was going 18 times the speed of light... as opposed to 18what times the speed of sound. That's the joke.


Challenger was only going twice the speed of light when it was destroyed.
 
2012-07-24 10:55:41 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc


I put that down to a naming convention. It is easier to say warp 10 than warp 9.9
Warp 13 was warp 9.999.
 
2012-07-24 10:57:30 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc


Article on Memory Alpha indicates there was a third recalibration in the time between the rest of that series and that episode. It kind of makes sense, to spread the numbers used rather then looking at the difference between warp 9.9994 and warp 9.9999995.

You can put any number you like on the scale to refer to a point on it, as long as all parties involved know the scale/rate, it's all good.
 
2012-07-24 10:57:51 AM

Slives: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc

I put that down to a naming convention. It is easier to say warp 10 than warp 9.9
Warp 13 was warp 9.999.


Bah, should have been warp 9.9 is warp 11. They just skip over warp 10 and use the digit on the end to express the number of 9s.
 
2012-07-24 10:57:57 AM
serial_crusher: The jumpgates weren't quite that complicated. They just took you into hyperspace, where you're still moving slower than light, but light moves a lot faster, or something like that.

The hyperspace model used in B5 and various other science fiction universes holds that hyperspace itself consists of a geometrically smaller area of space which correlates directly to "real" space. Due to this, a trip between two points in hyperspace correlating to two points in "real" space would result in a much shorter distance traveled in the former than the latter.

Lumpmoose: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

As somebody else already pointed out, ships in sci-fi generally travel at the speed of plot. That said, they made a real attempt to keep the warp scale consistent throughout TNG and beyond. The caveat you're referring to only kicks in at speeds above warp 9, where the scale shoots up exponentially, approaching infinity -- that being the theoretical warp limit of 10, when one would exist at all points in the universe simultaneously. I believe Voyager had an episode covering this.
 
2012-07-24 10:58:42 AM

4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.


The TNG-era calculation has a fudge- up to warp 9, it follows the formula listed. Past that point, it goes asymptotic.
 
2012-07-24 11:00:22 AM

wmoonfox: I believe Voyager had an episode covering this.


Oh, they did. They did. It was the single worst episode of Voyager, which says a lot.
 
2012-07-24 11:05:59 AM

t3knomanser: wmoonfox: I believe Voyager had an episode covering this.

Oh, they did. They did. It was the single worst episode of Voyager, which says a lot.


LEAVE SALAMANDER BABIES ALONE!

/But seriously, how do people think that is the worst episodes when Voyager has 3 episodes based on ensign Kim?
//the worst ensign in history
 
2012-07-24 11:06:23 AM
crow202.org
 
2012-07-24 11:06:23 AM

t3knomanser: wmoonfox: I believe Voyager had an episode covering this.

Oh, they did. They did. It was the single worst episode of Voyager, which says a lot.


This was the episode that made me stop watching anything trek for about a year.

SO ... Bad...
 
2012-07-24 11:12:13 AM
The makers of Mathematica and CNN teaming up?

I'm sure you could use Mathematica to plot the fail in that 2 dimensional space, but not without numerous errors.
 
2012-07-24 11:12:29 AM

serial_crusher: Jubeebee: serial_crusher: Does it tell you how fast the ships on Babylon 5 go though?

The ships in Babylon 5 actually only ever travel at typical Newtonian speeds, but instead exist in a universe where the law of conservation of mass/energy can be bent to allow identical spaceships to exist in two places in spacetime simultaneously when said ship travels through a jump. The paradox is resolved when light from the original spaceship reaches the jump destination and the ships resolve into a third identical ship that contains all of the information from all ships created by the jump.

/only watched like 3 episodes of Babylon 5
//so i'm just making shiat up

The jumpgates weren't quite that complicated. They just took you into hyperspace, where you're still moving slower than light, but light moves a lot faster, or something like that.
But, the joke behind my comment is that there's one episode where they complain about how long it takes to mail stuff to B5 from earth (long enough that the thought of somebody having real eggs and bacon was unfathomable), but then later in that same episode Sheridan takes the White Star out to Mars and back within a few hours.
So some fan asked how fast exactly the ships travel, and JMS answered that they travel "at the speed of plot"


Of cause White Stars use FO technologies and can travel faster than inferior ships
 
2012-07-24 11:14:04 AM

AppleOptionEsc: t3knomanser: wmoonfox: I believe Voyager had an episode covering this.

Oh, they did. They did. It was the single worst episode of Voyager, which says a lot.

LEAVE SALAMANDER BABIES ALONE!

/But seriously, how do people think that is the worst episodes when Voyager has 3 episodes based on ensign Kim?
//the worst ensign in history


The Salamander babies have precedence in TNG season 7 episode "Genesis". Which kinda sucked too.

The producers had planned on axing Kim because he was unreliable on set (showed up late, etc.), but decided to keep him and fire Kes because they they he brought in female viewers. Yeah, they had a lot of problems.

// Still liked Voyager
 
2012-07-24 11:17:28 AM
"exploded?"

I thought it was all filmed on a soundstage.
 
2012-07-24 11:18:47 AM

TommyDeuce: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc

Article on Memory Alpha indicates there was a third recalibration in the time between the rest of that series and that episode. It kind of makes sense, to spread the numbers used rather then looking at the difference between warp 9.9994 and warp 9.9999995.

You can put any number you like on the scale to refer to a point on it, as long as all parties involved know the scale/rate, it's all good.


Yes, but the engineers probably don't use the recalibrated scale. The integers 2 through 9 are physical power-use breakpoints. It's cheaper to travel at Warp 4.2 than at Warp 3.8. That breaks down above Warp 9, after which there are no more efficiency breakpoints.
 
2012-07-24 11:19:36 AM

AppleOptionEsc: how do people think that is the worst episodes when Voyager has 3 episodes based on ensign Kim?


Kim's primary failure is boring. He had all the personality of soggy cardboard. That was a common failing on the show (most the characters were boring or annoying or boring and annoying), but Kim boldly took boring where no tedium has gone before. So while Kim-centric episodes were always stupid and forgettable- they were forgettable.

AppleOptionEsc: LEAVE SALAMANDER BABIES ALONE!


I can just see how the conversation went when they found Paris and Janeway. "Um... what should we do with the babies?"

"Leave them."

"Leave them? But they're technically human! There are all sorts of ethical considerations. What about the prime directive?"

"Ensign, did you miss the part where Janeway and Paris turned into salamanders and had freaky salamander sex and produced children? Leave them behind and never discuss thing again."
 
2012-07-24 11:22:39 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc


Riker commanded a major upgraded Enterprise with warp nacelles, it broke the Warp 10 barrier constantly from what I gathered.

In the Star Trek: Enterprise series, Federation ships in the future time line was breaking it constantly too...
 
2012-07-24 11:27:08 AM

serial_crusher: Jubeebee: serial_crusher: Does it tell you how fast the ships on Babylon 5 go though?

The ships in Babylon 5 actually only ever travel at typical Newtonian speeds, but instead exist in a universe where the law of conservation of mass/energy can be bent to allow identical spaceships to exist in two places in spacetime simultaneously when said ship travels through a jump. The paradox is resolved when light from the original spaceship reaches the jump destination and the ships resolve into a third identical ship that contains all of the information from all ships created by the jump.

/only watched like 3 episodes of Babylon 5
//so i'm just making shiat up

The jumpgates weren't quite that complicated. They just took you into hyperspace, where you're still moving slower than light, but light moves a lot faster, or something like that.
But, the joke behind my comment is that there's one episode where they complain about how long it takes to mail stuff to B5 from earth (long enough that the thought of somebody having real eggs and bacon was unfathomable), but then later in that same episode Sheridan takes the White Star out to Mars and back within a few hours.
So some fan asked how fast exactly the ships travel, and JMS answered that they travel "at the speed of plot"


hyperspace is "smaller" than real space.

also, Sherridan was able to just say "Go to Mars" in mimbari and bam, they went to mars. The mail carriers had to stop at every stop along the way, or traveled via whatever ships were going in that general direction, etc. think the mail service of the pre-post office days.
 
2012-07-24 11:49:01 AM
KellyX: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc

Riker commanded a major upgraded Enterprise with warp nacelles, it broke the Warp 10 barrier constantly from what I gathered.

In the Star Trek: Enterprise series, Federation ships in the future time line was breaking it constantly too...


Warp scale has always been plot centric to Trek too. Higher speeds were always used for something better / new / in the future as a easy way to denote those things on whatever plot was for the week. New mysterious future ship? Warp 2203932. Enterprise D refit in future? Warp 21381.

Stupid, but it's gets the info across to the less in-tuned audiences.

I'm still wondering how the J jumps galaxies. Big enough to be a generational ship, but at the same time they're dealing with time travel, worrying about wars in physical space, and still belong to some sort of federation.

Stupid Berman...
 
2012-07-24 12:10:08 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc


I just watched that episode a couple days ago. Yeah, the beefed up Enterprise D went at Warp 13. I figure they just moved to another scale somewhere along the way like they did between TOS and TNG. As your ships get faster and approach warp 10, the TNG scale would have you talking about one ship going Warp 9.999999 and another ship only going Warp 9.99999 and not being able to catch them. It's a little impractical in the long run.
 
2012-07-24 12:22:15 PM

SuperT: also, Sherridan was able to just say "Go to Mars" in mimbari and bam, they went to mars. The mail carriers had to stop at every stop along the way, or traveled via whatever ships were going in that general direction, etc. think the mail service of the pre-post office days.


Yeah, I meant to mention in my post that a shiatty postal service seemed like a better explanation. Shipping human food to Babylon 5 to feed the handful of humans living there probably wasn't profitable enough for any private industry to get involved, and we saw an episode where Geribaldi broke into the post office because some bureaucracy was preventing him from picking up his package. Seems likely that the EarthGov Postal Service sucks just as bad as our own.
 
2012-07-24 12:27:50 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-07-24 12:41:59 PM
I come to fark because--- I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE NO MATH!!!!---
 
2012-07-24 12:45:56 PM

serial_crusher: SuperT: also, Sherridan was able to just say "Go to Mars" in mimbari and bam, they went to mars. The mail carriers had to stop at every stop along the way, or traveled via whatever ships were going in that general direction, etc. think the mail service of the pre-post office days.

Yeah, I meant to mention in my post that a shiatty postal service seemed like a better explanation. Shipping human food to Babylon 5 to feed the handful of humans living there probably wasn't profitable enough for any private industry to get involved, and we saw an episode where Geribaldi broke into the post office because some bureaucracy was preventing him from picking up his package. Seems likely that the EarthGov Postal Service sucks just as bad as our own.


EarthGov was perpetually incompetent, until the moment the Shadows got in the heads of a few people like Clark, and then things suddenly got efficient for the sake of sewing chaos in the galaxy. Quite odd when you think about it.
 
2012-07-24 12:54:34 PM
It's all part of their plan...

web.mit.edu
 
2012-07-24 01:12:39 PM
As opposed to Wolf Blitzer and CNN, from whom we have learned how to fail on Jeopardy.
 
2012-07-24 01:23:12 PM

Lumpmoose: Someone actually calculated the speed of warp? Does Star Trek and its spin-offs ever maintain any consistency with that number and its relation to interstellar travel instead of just whatever the plot required at the time?


plot speed
and the worst part, is even the tards who claim to have calculated it (from episode information?) fail to deal with the fact that if their math were correct, the enterprise would never have arrived anywhere on time
 
2012-07-24 01:31:29 PM

serial_crusher: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc

I just watched that episode a couple days ago. Yeah, the beefed up Enterprise D went at Warp 13. I figure they just moved to another scale somewhere along the way like they did between TOS and TNG. As your ships get faster and approach warp 10, the TNG scale would have you talking about one ship going Warp 9.999999 and another ship only going Warp 9.99999 and not being able to catch them. It's a little impractical in the long run.


can we talk about the RETARDED politically correct episode where we learned that it is "morally bad" to go too fast?
YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
 
2012-07-24 01:50:03 PM

namatad: serial_crusher: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc

I just watched that episode a couple days ago. Yeah, the beefed up Enterprise D went at Warp 13. I figure they just moved to another scale somewhere along the way like they did between TOS and TNG. As your ships get faster and approach warp 10, the TNG scale would have you talking about one ship going Warp 9.999999 and another ship only going Warp 9.99999 and not being able to catch them. It's a little impractical in the long run.

can we talk about the RETARDED politically correct episode where we learned that it is "morally bad" to go too fast?
YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


It's better than the abortion episode, where Diana gets alien pregnant and everyone wanted to push her down a flight of holographic stairs.
 
2012-07-24 02:26:58 PM

UNC_Samurai: serial_crusher: SuperT: also, Sherridan was able to just say "Go to Mars" in mimbari and bam, they went to mars. The mail carriers had to stop at every stop along the way, or traveled via whatever ships were going in that general direction, etc. think the mail service of the pre-post office days.

Yeah, I meant to mention in my post that a shiatty postal service seemed like a better explanation. Shipping human food to Babylon 5 to feed the handful of humans living there probably wasn't profitable enough for any private industry to get involved, and we saw an episode where Geribaldi broke into the post office because some bureaucracy was preventing him from picking up his package. Seems likely that the EarthGov Postal Service sucks just as bad as our own.

EarthGov was perpetually incompetent, until the moment the Shadows got in the heads of a few people like Clark, and then things suddenly got efficient for the sake of sewing chaos in the galaxy. Quite odd when you think about it.


Of cause they also used Centauri, Drakh, evil Vree cousins and others
 
2012-07-24 02:39:51 PM
AppleOptionEsc: namatad: serial_crusher: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 4of11: The "TNG and later" equation can't be right. At least by Voyager, warp factors go towards infinite velocity as they approach 10.

Even in TNG, a future enterprise went something like warp 13 iirc

I just watched that episode a couple days ago. Yeah, the beefed up Enterprise D went at Warp 13. I figure they just moved to another scale somewhere along the way like they did between TOS and TNG. As your ships get faster and approach warp 10, the TNG scale would have you talking about one ship going Warp 9.999999 and another ship only going Warp 9.99999 and not being able to catch them. It's a little impractical in the long run.

can we talk about the RETARDED politically correct episode where we learned that it is "morally bad" to go too fast?
YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

It's better than the abortion episode, where Diana gets alien pregnant and everyone wanted to push her down a flight of holographic stairs.


How was that different than any other Diana episode?
 
2012-07-24 04:30:03 PM
How fast is that in Parsecs?
 
2012-07-24 04:41:02 PM
Granted, I'm not as much of a Star Wars geek as Star Trek, but, as I understand it, ships traveling in hyperspace in the Lucasverse all travel at approximately the same speed. So, the "fastest" ship will be the one that can traverse the distance between point A and point B via the shortest possible route -- which is also why certain hyperspace "routes" are considered very valuable. So, making the Kessel Run (sp?) in "less than twelve parsecs" may actually be something not-terribly-absurd to boast about.
 
2012-07-24 07:29:48 PM

wmoonfox: So, making the Kessel Run (sp?) in "less than twelve parsecs" may actually be something not-terribly-absurd to boast about.


IIRC The Kessel run is a distance that slings past a lot of black holes... the faster you're going the closer you can get to black holes (think like slalom skiing) without getting sucked in. Because of the layout, the closer you can get to them the more your course approaches a straight line, so actual distance traveled by the ship is less the faster you go.

It's still a stupid thing to have to explain and I feel like someone in the Star Wars universe came up with that explanation to cover a goof-up in writing...

/not a Star Wars fan, don't even own the movies... that explanation just always stuck with me
//wont but the movies ever again until Han shoots first
 
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