How much the "victim" fund collect so far? Be she's making out well for this bs.

CheekyMonkey: THX 1138: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

The victim in this story was female. The Bible doesn't say anything about women who lieth with women. Any Christians want to educate me on where the infallible, unerring word of the Bible says anything about women?

Well, to be fair, back when the bible was written, women were considered property, not people.

If no one's mentioned it yet, Leviticus also provides some truly smashing advice about selling your daughters off.

Somehow this bit was deemed "not palatable" for the 21st century, but the bit about hating gays is apparently timeless.

Yep... cherry picking sure is fun.

Rich Cream: Boatmech: Had about 3 gallons of gas in a dingy fuel tank ignite and burn down to the base years ago.


Sure you can burn things all day long, in a container. I doubt they poured the gasoline into a vase or dish.

And if you don't use a trivet you get a burn mark. And the smoke damage, of course.

The seam on the tank split (don't know if it was before or after the fire started) and the fuel pooled at the base of the wall - about 3 feet away so it wasn't contained in this case and the smoke damage isn't caused by the gas burning. The wood/plastic/fabric ignited by the gas produces the smoke.
If nothing else caught fire there's not going to be a lot of smoke.

FilmBELOH20: Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: I don't want to be one of "those guys" either, but if they tied her up with zip ties, how did she get out of them?

By "those guys", you mean an "illiterate person"? From the article:
The victim's friend said the woman crawled from her house, naked and bleeding and screaming for help, before reaching the doorstep of a neighbor's home.

It's probably safe to assume the neighbor cut them off.

OK, allow me to elaborate. Blahblahblah

That's a really long way to say "I never read the article, which does say she was still bound, so all of my suppositions are irrelevant."

blahblahblahblah.

I'm sorry, is Google too tough for you to use? Are you really that much of an idiot?

FilmBELOH20: I doubt that any human is going to allow an assailant to carve words in to her body. She'd be fighting and kicking and waving her arms like crazy, and that wouldn't allow for very good penmanship, now would it?

I have seen what "cutters" do to themselves. You wouldn't believe what some people can do to themselves by self mutilation. Apparently, it releases endorphins and the mutilation is quite calming.

On the other hand, I have only had a knife pulled on me once and I expected to be killed, not written on.

JRoo: matthew_m_g: KiwDaWabbit: Just like with the Aurora shooting, I think this is a mental illness issue. No one who is sane would do this to another person. The hatred part of the equation is more boogeyman than anything to me, with regard to holding a certain group of people responsible for all of your problems or pointing the finger of blame at them for all that is wrong in the world.

As a country, we need to face down mental illness and take it about a million times more seriously than we do now. I believe in liberty, but part of that equation is being free from being a target of mentally ill people to the highest degree possible.

I hope the victim makes a full physical, mental, and emotional recovery. It's nice to see the outpouring of support from Lincoln, Omaha, and across the nation.

Agreed. Lincoln was a very gay-friendly town in the 90s. The University of Nebraska helped foster a lot of that work, if memory serves, and the city is still pretty gay friendly (again, save for an ignorant vocal minority) from all accounts.

Sad to see this happen, and I second what KDW said--it's great to see a lot of support from Nebraska folks in this thread, especially those in Lincoln and Omaha.

And just remember, folks, before we start painting with stereotypes, Nebraska was the last state to oppose No Child Left Behind, gave Obama some electoral college votes, and until the 'baggers spewed their derp all over, was a last bastion for reasonable moderate politics...

...I mean, where else would you see a state send Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans to congress...well, again, before the 'baggers derped all over.


I'm a queer living in Lincoln. Nebraska. It's still not too bad a place. We have a lot of openly gay folks, a couple of gay bars. It's a smaller city and I just went to our first furry get together. There's a vigil against hate planned for Thursday, in Omaha. I'll probably be attending.

I don't think people will judge all of Colorado for one incident ...

What about two incidents?

SkunkWerks: This text is now purple: SkunkWerks: Time to familiarize yourself with the species, then. We're among the few on this sphere that kill one another "just because".

That's not even close to true.

This must be a definition of the word "close" I'm unfamiliar with.

Dolphins, Chimpanzees (a handful perhaps of lower-order primates- most of whom incidentally share the vast majority of our genome), Elephants... I think?

Now I admit you may be a little confused here. There are certainly other species that kill one another, but in the majority of those cases it can be put down to instinct, and even in many, as some form of survival strategy. Male lions kill cubs from other competing males, female spiders often devour their mates to nourish their yet-unborn, and so on.

But killing (or injuring) peers for the sheer novelty of it? That requires some degree of sapience.

So yes, it's pretty close to true. So close I'd pretty much call it "true".

If you're going to redefine words to fit your purpose, then it's "true".

What is instinct but "just because"? Casual cannibalism is downright common amongst animals of all orders. In insects, it's almost the rule. If you're going to argue that it requires a novel non-nonchalance, then we need to establish which animals are sufficiently sentient for novelty, and then see how common casual murder is amongst them. It seems that of the reasonably intelligent species, it's not uncommon. Hell, I can even see an arguable sociological justification for it.

Delay: Apparently, it releases endorphins and the mutilation is quite calming.

It becomes an addiction. It's true. My wife had done this at one point in her teens. There were other issues involved, such as severe Bipolar Mood Disorder. She stopped, thankfully.

Not really sure what being a "cutter" has to do even with faking a hate crime- the motivations don't remotely match, but hey, anything to seemingly impugn the not-yet-proven-guilty, amirite?

KimNorth: Didn't one of the ladies get arrested after police use some kind of light and found paint on her hands? Or was that a different case?

Both of them were arrested. Link

Alonjar: Id like to point out that if they left her tied up in her house with it on fire, that would imply they intended to kill her. If they were going to BBQ her, why carve the slurs?

Are you under the impression that people carve slurs into someone's body to transmit information to a third party?

If psychopaths carve slurs into your body, why would they care whether or not it's readable later?

Alonjar: Id like to point out that if they left her tied up in her house with it on fire, that would imply they intended to kill her. If they were going to BBQ her, why carve the slurs?

This was a fundamentally irrational act. Don't look for reason where none is required. The only unified goal here was to be mean to her. There's no reason at all to expect that three bigoted maniacs will never work at cross purposes. The fire may or may not have been thought out. It may have been botched. It may have been intended to be put out. There's insufficient evidence available to us to ascribe any specific motive to the bigots, except an act of (small 't') terror towards the victim.

There's no special reason to expect that they knew or cared that a "to the ground" fire might make the spray paint unreadable. There's no reason to expect that the slurs were ever intended to be read. These were meant to terrorize and torture the victim. Anything else is bullshiat at this point.

They were victimizing her. There's no reason to expect that they intended a wider message. Stop looking for reason. Reason was never invited to the 'party'.

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Oblio13: I myself have personally used zip-ties with no help from anyone else.

Have you personally bound your wrists and ankles with said zip-ties? No? Then what's your point, other than to make sure everyone knows you're a giant douche?

It's not difficult to ziptie your wrist and ankles, even if your wrists are behind your back. It doesn't prove anything either way, but its very easy to do to yourself.

Not saying it was difficult. He was stating that he had personally done these things... except he curiously changed "tied myself up" to "used". Regardless of how difficult it is, he's never actually done it, so his post is just there to show he's a massive douche.
~
~
FTA: The 33-year-old woman said she was attacked early Sunday by three masked men who barged into her house, bound her wrists and ankles with zip ties....

That kind of jumped out at me - it doesn't seem like the normal way of reporting such a crime. That's what she said happened. Article goes no further than that. Cops haven't confirmed it. They aren't saying anything actually.

SkunkWerks: Not really sure what being a "cutter" has to do even with faking a hate crime- the motivations don't remotely match, but hey, anything to seemingly impugn the not-yet-proven-guilty, amirite?

Both seem to stem from profoundly low self esteem.

All I'm going off of is what was in TFA, so I could be wrong.

Think about it from the perspective of the would-be attackers. They were planning to break into a woman's house and attack her. They specifically bring gasoline and zip ties, planning to tie up the victim and set her house on fire with her in it. This implies at least attempted murder and we can be somewhat sure that these guys haven't done anything like that before because we haven't heard of hate-crimewave over in Lincoln.

So their adrenaline must have been jacked. Yet they managed to break in without being seen. Subdue an adult woman without taking any defensive wounds, carve grammatically correct slurs into her skin (all over her body) without cutting her deep enough to cause her to bleed to death, spray paint other slurs on the wall with neater penmanship than I could manage even calm, use just enough gasoline to cause only 200 bucks in damage, and then escape back into the night without being seen or leaving a trace of evidence.

Either the police department is in on it, her attackers are master criminals, or she is making it up.

Alonjar: Id like to point out that if they left her tied up in her house with it on fire, that would imply they intended to kill her. If they were going to BBQ her, why carve the slurs?

Sounds fishy.

Haven't you ever seen Reservior Dogs?

Ambivalence: TheDumbBlonde: No Christian was involved in this heinous crime.

That's not really for you to say. I understand not wanting to be associated with this kind of filth, but if they say they're christian, then they are christian. They may be really bad at BEING Christian, but it's not like there's an authoritity with the power to kick out bad examples from the entire suite of Christian religions.

I'm the President of the United States. Now give me your tax dollars.

See how that doesn't work? You can, in fact, call yourself Christian and not be Christian.

This is just heartbreaking to read. Bigoted pieces of crap! My heart goes out to your friend. So sad!

gja: This needs repeating.......

[weknowmemes.com image 502x554]

THAT^^^^^^ is what being a good christian means.

/at least the way I read it and the way I choose to live it.

Seconded.

Hate the sin but love the sinner.

Big Ramifications: FTA: The 33-year-old woman said she was attacked early Sunday by three masked men who barged into her house, bound her wrists and ankles with zip ties....

That kind of jumped out at me - it doesn't seem like the normal way of reporting such a crime. That's what she said happened. Article goes no further than that. Cops haven't confirmed it. They aren't saying anything actually.

Oh FFS. If not "said", what word should the journalist have used? Exactly what word would have been "normal" in your mind?

Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: I don't want to be one of "those guys" either, but if they tied her up with zip ties, how did she get out of them?

By "those guys", you mean an "illiterate person"? From the article:
The victim's friend said the woman crawled from her house, naked and bleeding and screaming for help, before reaching the doorstep of a neighbor's home.

It's probably safe to assume the neighbor cut them off.

OK, allow me to elaborate. Blahblahblah

That's a really long way to say "I never read the article, which does say she was still bound, so all of my suppositions are irrelevant."

blahblahblahblah.

I'm sorry, is Google too tough for you to use? Are you really that much of an idiot?

You're the shiathead who accused me of being illiterate because I didn't read the article - not that I didn't go to Google and do my own research. The article has nothing in it regarding whether or not she was bound and that's where my Weeners came from, asshat. See? I can call people names to try to get my point across too, you smug motherfarker.

i don't really have a dog in this ideological / theological fight, but this story does not sound right to me

it sounds like the kind of thing that certain people believe that anti-gay bigots would do if given the chance, and how it would be staged if they wanted the blame to go on such bigots

if you're the kind of psycho willing to tie someone up and kill them by setting the house on fire, you're probably likely to stab her / rape her / bludgeon her first (google Christian-Newsome murders, if you dare), and it appears she is already out of the hospital

plus, why write on the walls when you're going to burn the place down?

as someone once said, there are a lot of people in prison who did not have well thought out plans, so people do weird, illogical stuff, but there is something off with this story

Jeebus - then I get p0wned by the filter for responding to a troll...

Big Ramifications: FTA: The 33-year-old woman said she was attacked early Sunday by three masked men who barged into her house, bound her wrists and ankles with zip ties....

That kind of jumped out at me - it doesn't seem like the normal way of reporting such a crime.

Gay Nebraska woman tied up, mutilated in hate-crime assault, police say

So, now are you going to accuse the police of lying?

But no, that's how journalists hedge - "he said this", "she said this", that way they don't have to actually go on record as making any conclusions. I wouldn't read much into it.

This text is now purple: Casual cannibalism is downright common amongst animals of all orders.

Cannibalism? Yes. Not casual. A species that has no concept of Novelty can't really use it as a motive, now can it?

This text is now purple: If you're going to argue that it requires a novel non-nonchalance, then we need to establish which animals are sufficiently sentient for novelty

Did that already. It amounts to less than one percent of species (and probably less than one tenth of a percent, I might even hazard). If the Science behind it interests you at all, most of these have some significant capacity for long-term memory.

Sapience.

Most insects have a brain that is little more than a complicated nerve cluster. There's no room for memory there, but it hard-wires quite well. Not only are concepts like "novelty" unfathomable, but "choice" is another capacity that is simply irrelevant. Insects do what they are evolved to do, cannibalism is ingrained, not chosen, and certainly not out of any notion of novelty.

This text is now purple: If you're going to redefine words

Mmm, no. I'm going to stick with their actual definitions. It's not only "close to true", contrary to what you said, it essentially is true.

Recall, I used the phrase "among the few", and indeed, we are. Or would you like to redefine the word "few" as well as the word "close"?

Xcott: hit on by gay people

Sad story bro: I'm so clueless I got hit on by a gay dude once and didn't realize it until I thought about it the next day

FilmBELOH20: Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: Theaetetus: FilmBELOH20: I don't want to be one of "those guys" either, but if they tied her up with zip ties, how did she get out of them?

By "those guys", you mean an "illiterate person"? From the article:
The victim's friend said the woman crawled from her house, naked and bleeding and screaming for help, before reaching the doorstep of a neighbor's home.

It's probably safe to assume the neighbor cut them off.

OK, allow me to elaborate. Blahblahblah

That's a really long way to say "I never read the article, which does say she was still bound, so all of my suppositions are irrelevant."

blahblahblahblah.

I'm sorry, is Google too tough for you to use? Are you really that much of an idiot?

blahblahblah

When you're done, as I pointed out, the article talks about her crawling to your neighbor, but you instead assumed that she freed herself. The article didn't say anything about that, so don't suddenly come off all high and mighty about holding to exactly what the article said.

Anyway, this is all irrelevant. She was still tied up, as confirmed by multiple articles. Your wild suppositions about her magically freeing herself and how therefore she must have done it all herself are just red herring pot-stirring from a troll.

Delay: SkunkWerks: Not really sure what being a "cutter" has to do even with faking a hate crime- the motivations don't remotely match, but hey, anything to seemingly impugn the not-yet-proven-guilty, amirite?

Both seem to stem from profoundly low self esteem.

Maybe. But given the number of times I see the skeptics citing some over-arching conspiracy to advance "teh ghey cawz", I'm going to have to say the jury is still very much out on that. Or in other words, I think people with such an astoundingly low sense of self-esteem have far more fundamental things to worry about than politics.

Theaetetus: When you're done, as I pointed out, the article talks about her crawling to your neighbor, but you instead assumed that she freed herself. The article didn't say anything about that, so don't suddenly come off all high and mighty about holding to exactly what the article said.

See I read another story saying the neighbors described her running to their house, feet unbound. I'm trying to find it. Much of the details people are repeating here are something "A friend described," which we all know how the whisper game goes. So, I'm waiting to hear more from the police.

The All-Powerful Atheismo: digistil: TheDumbBlonde: No Christian was involved in this heinous crime.

Also this. Jesus never said to attack thy neighbor and cut them. Bigots do however, and then hide behind religion.

Yeah they aren't really Scottish.

It's always nice to see how no matter what happens, there's always a few people who'll use it to grind their little ax.

LlamaGirl: Holy dickhead thread batman!

Wanna bet a month of TF that this is self inflicted? Put your money where your muff hole is? We'll have to wait for the follow up, but I like my self-satisfaction served cold.

gulogulo: Theaetetus: When you're done, as I pointed out, the article talks about her crawling to your neighbor, but you instead assumed that she freed herself. The article didn't say anything about that, so don't suddenly come off all high and mighty about holding to exactly what the article said.

See I read another story saying the neighbors described her running to their house, feet unbound. I'm trying to find it. Much of the details people are repeating here are something "A friend described," which we all know how the whisper game goes. So, I'm waiting to hear more from the police.

Respectfully, you may have misread... I've seen multiple stories describing her as crawling and still bound, as well as this line in the article:
Raymond Strozier heard sirens outside his house early Sunday and looked outside to see his neighbor bleeding in the street, the victim of a reported hate crime in which her attackers carved anti-gay slurs into her skin and tried to light her house on fire.
Strozier said he ran to her just before paramedics pulled her away.
Perhaps you saw that and thought it was saying she ran?

If I were a Nigerian prince in search of a few helpful people to loan me money so I could claim my inheritance, this thread might be a good place for me to start working on my mailing list.

SkunkWerks: Or in other words, I think people with such an astoundingly low sense of self-esteem have far more fundamental things to worry about than politics.

Yuck. Whether the woman is the victim of a horrible hate crime or the crime is some serious false reporting, I would hope politics stays out of it. She needs some urgent medical care right now and that should be the highest priority.

Whiskey Dickens: LlamaGirl: Holy dickhead thread batman!

Wanna bet a month of TF that this is self inflicted? Put your money where your muff hole is? We'll have to wait for the follow up, but I like my self-satisfaction served cold.

I'll take that bet. She confesses or is found guilty, then month of TF for you. Otherwise, month of TF for me. How long do you want the timer to run?

TheDumbBlonde: No Christian was involved in this heinous crime.

Wants a word.

Theaetetus: Big Ramifications: FTA: The 33-year-old woman said she was attacked early Sunday by three masked men who barged into her house, bound her wrists and ankles with zip ties....

That kind of jumped out at me - it doesn't seem like the normal way of reporting such a crime.

Gay Nebraska woman tied up, mutilated in hate-crime assault, police say

So, now are you going to accuse the police of lying?

But no, that's how journalists hedge - "he said this", "she said this", that way they don't have to actually go on record as making any conclusions. I wouldn't read much into it.

Flood said multiple detectives are working on the case, but releasing too many details could compromise their ability to conduct quality suspect interviews. "The levels of a suspect's involvement may depend on details known," Flood said, "rather than what was learned in news reports."

Ya and the police are admitting they don't know for sure either. Chill dude.

Gimmick: If I were a Nigerian prince in search of a few helpful people to loan me money so I could claim my inheritance, this thread might be a good place for me to start working on my mailing list.

This just in! Giving people who are beaten, cut on, and nearly set on fire the benefit of the doubt (at least until there's actual proof to the contrary) makes you gullible!

And to a lesser extent, vulnerable to Nigeria.

Mrs.Sharpier: Flood said multiple detectives are working on the case, but releasing too many details could compromise their ability to conduct quality suspect interviews. "The levels of a suspect's involvement may depend on details known," Flood said, "rather than what was learned in news reports."

Ya and the police are admitting they don't know for sure either. Chill dude.

I think you're misreading that. They're saying that they want to ask suspects questions, and not have the suspect say "how did I know that she had [x] carved on her leg? I, uh, saw it in the news report."

Wanted for questioning...

Delay: SkunkWerks: Or in other words, I think people with such an astoundingly low sense of self-esteem have far more fundamental things to worry about than politics.

Yuck. Whether the woman is the victim of a horrible hate crime or the crime is some serious false reporting, I would hope politics stays out of it. She needs some urgent medical care right now and that should be the highest priority.

Sadly, it's too late for that. :/

Theaetetus: Respectfully, you may have misread... I've seen multiple stories describing her as crawling and still bound, as well as this line in the article:

No, I'm fairly sure I read that she ran..her feet were not tied, just her hands. I remember thinking "It was a good thing she had something sharp nearby to cut the ties around her feet so she could get out of the house before it burned." I know it wasn't the passage you're speaking about. I'll see if I can find it.

That was pretty close to where I lived in Lincoln. Hope your friend gets better subby.