So I see the Taliban has taken up residence in Nebraska. When do we send the troops in?

dfenstrate: Hey folks!
My ten favorite hate crime hoaxes!

Yeah, maybe you shouldn't use a link to an article whose author says stuff like "So when did we become such complete f*ggots about everything?" to illustrate some point about hate crime hoaxes being so prevalent as to outshine actual hate crimes.

Reminds me of this story:



Both people need help, at any rate.

Another HRC-supporting-ACLU-card-carrying-liberal-pinko-commie who thinks it was self-inflicted.

I dearly hope I'm wrong.

AirForceVet: Submitter, can you keep up informed how the investigation is going on this incident? I just stunned three men attacked a woman in her home and left anti-gay slurs on her. Normally one sees male on male violence involving gays, bisexuals, and transgenders, not male on female. Breaking in and arson are serious felonies, beyond simple assault.

Interestingly, in South Africa you often hear of cases of men raping lesbians to try to turn them straight. I wonder how many rapes in America have this kind of motivation?

Lady Indica:

Fire is also used by people to destroy evidence. As you pointed out, there would likely be some evidence if three people were in the house, etc. If it's a hoax, fire might have been to destroy the evidence [or lack thereof]. It's also possible of course it was set by three people to destroy any evidence of the crimes they committed and/or to finish off their victim.

Erm, well sure, but if you're trying to destroy evidence why would you bother spraypainting the walls? This sounds like a really messy crime scene, and those are absolutely rich with clues. Like I said, we'll know so soon that it's sort of foolish rushing to judgement.

Why not wait until the facts are in? If it turns out to be true, the skeptics kinda end up looking like dicks.

As I said previously the article made me immediately skeptical. Words carved in the skin ... that was the first thing that made me skeptical because of other similar hoaxes (as others have amply pointed out). Zip ties are an extremely easy way to tie yourself up. You can pull the zip tie shut with your teeth if need be, it's very easy. The sprays on the wall look very even, very carefully done. It doesn't appear (to my decidedly INEXPERT eye of course) to be a scrawl of one or more madmen who are carving up and torching a woman because of sheer mindless hatred.

Hey, some kidnappings are hoaxes too, but just because there have been hoax kidnappings in the past doesn't mean you should shrug off a missing person. And zip ties are used because they're easy and effective - the same logic actual criminals or even police employ when using them. They work. Stating that it's suspicious when criminals don't use a more difficult, less-effective method just to prove to investigators that the restraint wasn't self-applied is a bit strange, honestly.

Self inflicted.

ginandbacon: This is just awful Subby. I will hold your friend in my heart.

this

EmmaLou: ginandbacon: Can we help in any way? Is there somewhere we can send donations to help her with hospital bills or to set up new housing?

http://starcitypride.org/victim-recovery-fund/

Subby here. posting from my phone so I can't format link. this is the site for helping. she has no insurance. this girl is such a sweetheart with the best heart. she just wants to live her life and rescue dogs. this should never happen to anyone!

Now my BS detector just clicked up a notch. Still waiting to hear exactly who/what/when on the 911 call.

gulogulo: dfenstrate: Hey folks!
My ten favorite hate crime hoaxes!

Yeah, maybe you shouldn't use a link to an article whose author says stuff like "So when did we become such complete f*ggots about everything?" to illustrate some point about hate crime hoaxes being so prevalent as to outshine actual hate crimes.

Hey, if you're interested in real hate crimes, you go look them up. That was the top link in a 'hate crime hoax' search.
Subby's incident is bullsh*t, just like the vast majority of 'hate crimes' reported.

bibli0phile: SuperTramp: The Lincoln Nebraska City Council approved a proposal in May to ban discrimination in housing and employment based on a person's sexual orientation or gender identity, but opponents obtained enough signatures to keep it from going into effect before an as-yet unscheduled public vote.

In May 2012 --- Nebraska Woman Delivers Epic Homophobic Rant at Lincoln 'Fairness Amendment' Hearing

Some highlights:

"P-E-N-I-S goes into the anus to rupture intestines. The more a man does this the more he'll be a fatality or a homicider."

"A huge percent of gay men in school grounds molest boys, partly because they don't have AIDS yet."

"Hillary Clinton's roommate four years in college was a gay woman. To avoid going gay like Clinton did, college students need single rooms and single gender dorms... A college woman is seduced with illegal Rohypnol to go gay."

"Roman senators went to Roman baths to be promiscuous gays... and orgiers then went to the Coliseum to watch Christians get mauled and perish. Do gays become this sadistic? Yes."

"Jesus was kissed by Judas, a homo, who tried to sabotage Jesus' kind ideas. Do you choose Jesus, a celibate, or Judas, a homo? You have to choose!"

This is what they're dealing with in Lincoln Nebraska.

That woman's family came forward to explain that she is mentally ill. She frequently attends council meetings (and is actually a registered lobbyist, believe it or not) and goes on rants like this. The council listens politely and then goes on about their business. It just so happens that this time, one of her rants went viral on the internet.

Link



Authentic frontier gibberish. Got it.

peterquince: Just going to weigh in and say that according to other articles, there were slurs carved into her skin. If that's accurate, we're not talking about someone who sliced herself a few times. This would take vastly more self-control or psychosis to pull off. The process would have to be:

1 - Spray paint the basement.
2 - Strip naked.
3 - Carve words all over her own body.
4 - Dump gasoline around the house (we don't know exactly where, but if the spray paint is in the basement, basement fire seems more obvious than anywhere else).
5 - Light the gasoline.
6 - Zip-tie hands and feet (INSIDE A BURNING BUILDING).
7 - Crawl out of the house screaming for help.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I will say I find that much less likely than someone doing this against her will.

As to the $200 in damage: If I'm right and the fire was in the basement, and based on the pictures it appears to be an unfinished basement, it's not unreasonable that only $200 in damage would have been done. Lots of cement and such down there. Keep in mind, too, that the fire was still burning when emergency crews arrived.

I truly hope this woman gets the help and support she needs in either event.

And I'll just add this little statement here:

Everyone. Stop doing terrible things to one another. It's not helping anything. And calls for someone to shoot someone are only escalating things. Just. Spread the love, guys.

With all those steps, she'd definitely raise the bar for AW crazy if that were the case. From other articles, she'd also have to let the house burn long enough that it was called in before she got to the neighbors, and still burning when emergency crews arrived (despite eventually burning out), make a ton of noise to wake a neighbor earlier sounding like a fight, carve at least one of the slurs with the wrong hand (slurs on stomach + both arms, cuts on head, torso, arms + legs), and sit still long enough after the cuts for the blood to make dried trails down her legs before going to the neighbors. That would be some awful patient crazy.

Or... hateful nuts waiting in her basement for her got bored and spray painted stuff, and didn't really care if the words burned or not in the mostly cement basement, probably figuring she'd not get out, but perhaps it didn't even matter. It seems easy to believe violent nuts weren't perfectly logical in their planning, rather than an AW nut being THAT determined, patient, and precise with her arson. It's not like she wouldn't get the same attention with half the effort if that were the case.

EmmaLou: ginandbacon: Can we help in any way? Is there somewhere we can send donations to help her with hospital bills or to set up new housing?

http://starcitypride.org/victim-recovery-fund/

Subby here. posting from my phone so I can't format link. this is the site for helping. she has no insurance. this girl is such a sweetheart with the best heart. she just wants to live her life and rescue dogs. this should never happen to anyone!

Uhhhh ... that site needs some serious help.

Ambivalence: TheDumbBlonde: No Christian was involved in this heinous crime.

That's not really for you to say. I understand not wanting to be associated with this kind of filth, but if they say they're christian, then they are christian. They may be really bad at BEING Christian, but it's not like there's an authoritity with the power to kick out bad examples from the entire suite of Christian religions.


You make a good point... however, I really don't consider anyone who would perpetrator this crime Christians. At least, no more so than immature college students are Buddhists because they read about it in a text book, thought it sounded cool, and decided they were Buddhists. They don't practice Buddhism.
I can strap on a set of skates and a sweater and call myself a hockey player but it doesn't make me one.
I doubt anyone who would commit the crimes described has stepped foot inside a church in years and they sure as hell don't practice Christianity.

dfenstrate: Subby's incident is bullsh*t, just like the vast majority of 'hate crimes' reported.

You've got numbers to back that up, or just a bigoted website you chose to create your narrative?

Ambivalence: TheDumbBlonde: No Christian was involved in this heinous crime.

That's not really for you to say. I understand not wanting to be associated with this kind of filth, but if they say they're christian, then they are christian. They may be really bad at BEING Christian, but it's not like there's an authoritity with the power to kick out bad examples from the entire suite of Christian religions.

Excommunication? Not that it is really used anymore.

doloresonthedottedline: AirForceVet: Submitter, can you keep up informed how the investigation is going on this incident? I just stunned three men attacked a woman in her home and left anti-gay slurs on her. Normally one sees male on male violence involving gays, bisexuals, and transgenders, not male on female. Breaking in and arson are serious felonies, beyond simple assault.

Not an expert, but I kind of assume one of the guys was jilted by her and they're channeling that rage at her orientation. Some guys do some pretty stunning things when their egos aren't worshipped properly, and I've seen a LOT of hate from insecure men directed at lesbians.

Being called a breeder makes me less attracted to them.

Bhruic: And this is why I said you don't understand logic.

Because you can't answer me?

Damn, I'm sorry that my understanding of logic depends upon your lack of compendious knowledge on who else in this country might hate gays for reasons not related to Christianity.

*comforts Spock*

Bhruic: You seem to be under a misconception as to where the burden of proof lies.



You made the claim that there are other reasons to incite violence towards gay people- other than those based in a Christian worldview. One can infer that this should narrow to "persons living in this country," given that this pertains to an attack in this country.

If you did not make this claim in your statement, well, it seems rather silly to suggest that "no one should speculate", since, well, there'd be no doubt in existence to defy speculation.

I am challenging you to back that statement up in any case. You have not, so far, done this.

Bhruic: I don't need to think of anyone else, because I'm not making a claim.

See above.

Bhruic: I'm saying your claim is unverifiable

I'm the rubber, you're the glue... is this really the direction we're taking this now?

Bhruic: So far, you haven't put forth any evidence of to back your claim at all.

I guess so...

Bhruic: Lots of speculation. Lots of speculation. But that's it.

Sorta like speculating that there exist in this country secular-rooted motives for beating, cutting on a woman and attempting to set her on fire because she's gay, you mean?

I get ya.

Bhruic: You can't turn around and say "well, you can't think of anyone else, so I win".

Why not? You did. Granted it was more "I don't think much of your argument, so I win," but it sure sounded familiar enough.

Bhruic: You're working off the same lack of evidence the rest of us are.

The most astute observation you've made in that entire missive. Glad there was some payoff for reading all that.

Lutrasimilis: dfenstrate: Hey folks!
My ten favorite hate crime hoaxes!

Do you have a ten favorite actual hate crimes?

And do they include pushing someone through a window?

There's something fishy about this story.

xl5150: untaken_name: cptjeff: I sincerely hope the person who did this is sodomized with a branding iron.

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

Not to mention the evidence is piling up that this was all self-inflicted.

Perhaps if you say it often and loudly enough, it will even become true.

SkunkWerks: Bhruic: You seem to be under a misconception as to where the burden of proof lies.

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You made the claim that there are other reasons to incite violence towards gay people- other than those based in a Christian worldview. One can infer that this should narrow to "persons living in this country," given that this pertains to an attack in this country.

Well, there's your mistake right there. I never made such a claim. No wonder you're so confused. As the rest of your argument all seems to rely on that incorrect assumption, it's easily dismissed.

My only claim has been that people have been jumping to conclusions without sufficient evidence for those conclusions. Since you don't seem willing (and definitely aren't able) to argue that point, you've really got nothing left, have you?

ChaoticLimbs: Nope. She's lying. Three guys? Nah, three guys getting together to do this would have robbed her. No profit in this crime. A single loner? Yeah, a single loner does things like this, but they don't tie you up and carve on you.
I support her cause, but when I add the known variables that a) people WILL lie for attention, b) we're in a housing downturn, and c) People will deliberately commit a fraud in support of their political, social, or religious perspectives, they add up to a statistically more likely proposition than that three guys got together and agreed to do this without robbing her of her valuables. I'm supposed to also believe that three guys light a fire like a girl.

Meh. no point in speculating about it. Law enforcement has proved pretty effective in detecting these types of fraud, and if it is such - we'll hear about it.

untaken_name: Sass-O-Rev: People are born the way they're born.

I prefer to believe in free will, otherwise the perpetrators could use the same excuse.

So you're saying that being sexually attracted to people of the same sex and actually committing a violent assault are equivalent somehow? As in, either everything is genetics or everything is about individual choice? You need to do some more reading and thinking to get your mind around the structure/agency problem and the relationships between biology and behavior.

Glad to see I was far from the only one who came away from that story with some serious doubts. Which isn't to automatically imply that the woman is lying in the hopes for attention/insurance/donations/whatever. It could very well have happened like she said it did. But if anyone takes the story at face value without knowing more, they are gullible.

The article does read like it is a hoax. Does that mean it is? Not particularly. Could just be written that way.

/Just how little the amount of gasoline could you pour out of a container inside of a residence, ignite it, and then have no real damage? A glassful?

Lernaeus: Sorry about your friend, Farkette - really, I am - but ALL CRIME IS "HATE" CRIME.

It's a dangerous road you're on that calls for the enhancement of penalties for some crimes because their motivations aren't politically correct.

I hate a gay basher as much as any bully, but punishing motivations is establishing thought crime and censorship.

I feel the same way about hate crimes as regards punishing motivations -- if someone kills someone else, they've killed someone, and it shouldn't matter if they killed them because they didn't like something about them, or just because they didn't like them. However, some crimes do have different effects. For example, setting a fire: if you burn a pile of dead leaves on your white neighbor's lawn, the effect is different than if you burn a cross on your black neighbor's lawn. It's not just burning something, any more than saying "I'm going to kill Fred" is just words; there's a meaning entailed, too.

So while I agree that anything that looks like it's creating or punishing thoughtcrimes is a bad thing, I think we do need to allow for some sort of punishment for the guy who burns a cross on his black neighbor's lawn to intimidate him beyond that which we dispense to the guy who burns a pile of leaves because he just wants to see something burn.

gulogulo: dfenstrate: Subby's incident is bullsh*t, just like the vast majority of 'hate crimes' reported.

You've got numbers to back that up, or just a bigoted website you chose to create your narrative?

I already posted a link. Your move.

namegoeshere: Is there any reason besides religion to oppose same sex relationships?

The very first sentence of the very Boobies about a hate crime just had to be to instigate hate towards theists even though there is zero evidence pointing towards them? Dude, what's wrong with you? I don't think this is the time to bring up the born again atheist routine.

Nobody should be be attacked like the girl in this story, however I strongly suspect that she was probably attacked not just at random, but by someone she knew, and probably as a result of some interaction they had.

peterquince: Just going to weigh in and say that according to other articles, there were slurs carved into her skin. If that's accurate, we're not talking about someone who sliced herself a few times. This would take vastly more self-control or psychosis to pull off. The process would have to be:

1 - Spray paint the basement.
2 - Strip naked.
3 - Carve words all over her own body.
4 - Dump gasoline around the house (we don't know exactly where, but if the spray paint is in the basement, basement fire seems more obvious than anywhere else).
5 - Light the gasoline.
6 - Zip-tie hands and feet (INSIDE A BURNING BUILDING).
7 - Crawl out of the house screaming for help.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I will say I find that much less likely than someone doing this against her will.

As to the $200 in damage: If I'm right and the fire was in the basement, and based on the pictures it appears to be an unfinished basement, it's not unreasonable that only $200 in damage would have been done. Lots of cement and such down there. Keep in mind, too, that the fire was still burning when emergency crews arrived.

I truly hope this woman gets the help and support she needs in either event.

And I'll just add this little statement here:

Everyone. Stop doing terrible things to one another. It's not helping anything. And calls for someone to shoot someone are only escalating things. Just. Spread the love, guys.


Just to weigh in here, what if the zip ties go on right after the "leave the burning building" part? I'm pretty sure that would be a lot easier. Haven't seen any evidence that anyone saw her leave the building, the article says they found her at the street.

I'm not buying this "three guys with women's handwriting and who can't light a fire properly get together to violate lots of laws for no profit and the target lives" bullshiat. Three guys that motivated by hate will kill her just to not be three friends in prison. To do that, you put the gasoline on the victim, not in a tidy pool on the floor. Seriously, $200 in damages? I couldn't light a pint of gasoline anywhere in the house without causing $3,000 in damages.

I say she's lying, and if she's not, I'm a jerk. But I'm not saying this because she's a lesbian, I'm saying this because numerous cases in the past say this case stinks to high heaven.

Just like with the Aurora shooting, I think this is a mental illness issue. No one who is sane would do this to another person. The hatred part of the equation is more boogeyman than anything to me, with regard to holding a certain group of people responsible for all of your problems or pointing the finger of blame at them for all that is wrong in the world.

As a country, we need to face down mental illness and take it about a million times more seriously than we do now. I believe in liberty, but part of that equation is being free from being a target of mentally ill people to the highest degree possible.

I hope the victim makes a full physical, mental, and emotional recovery. It's nice to see the outpouring of support from Lincoln, Omaha, and across the nation.

LiberalEastCoastElitist: AbbeySomeone: It's times like this when I realize that a West Coast perspective isn't the norm. Damn, that's too bad. I can't stand to spend time around these inbred, ignorant people that think behavior like this is OK. They terrify me and I'm a straight white woman.

They used to do this crap to fornicators and adulterers (still do in a few choice countries). They pick the most polarizing and/or vulnerable outlying group du jour and attempt to force them to conform, then move on to the next group. Nothing will ever be enough for them, even if we get to the point where conformation police roam the streets with rods whipping people wearing nail polish.

Pretty much came to laugh at this. I'm not even getting involved in the "is it self-inflicted?" debate. I'll leave that up to the professionals. As everyone should do instead of pontificating on the religious affiliation of the suspect, at least until a suspect is apprehended. If this was in a Muslim country, you'd all be screaming about how it was a fringe group and this isn't what real Islamicism is, so why do we immediately jump to blame Christianity? Because that's what we've been programmed to do? I'm an atheist, and even I can't stand the FarkLib Christian hate. It's as bad as what the "Christians"(tm) do to us, and it's counterproductive.

That being said, since no one here can practically contain their glee as they get to say "ignorant tee-bahggger" or "ignorant Christian reddnekk", I'll throw this out there: The most vitriolic homophobia comes "straight" from far-closeted homosexuals themselves. They know no religious, cultural, or socioeconomic bounds. All walks of life.

You might say that those closet cases seek out other groups of people who want to spew hate along with them, but since it's really only ever this one issue that causes any contention among the "Christians", and I'm using that term loosely here; none of the Christians (or teabaggers, for that matter) that I know would condone any type of behavior like this, and I actually know a fair number of them unlike the average suburban Fark Lib, I don't believe the religion to be the problem. I believe that they use one passage from a book (while usually committing every other sin in there on a daily basis) to cover for their pre-existing condition. A real Christian wouldn't do that. A "Christian"(tm) would.

Let's look at the root of the problem, not the facade they hide behind to give them an excuse to "prove" how straight they are. It's easy to blame religion, not so easy to blame society and human nature.

Bhruic: Well, there's your mistake right there.

You keep saying it's a mistake.

Again, if this statement wasn't implicit in your claim, then there's nothing there to defy the application of speculation. My assertion therefore becomes so near a certainty that all other infinitesimal possibilities are hardly worth consideration.

So, again, can you give me another probable option here? A reason why speculation seems significantly risky, and therefore, inadvisable? Or can you not?

It's a super-simple question. Live a little and take a risk, hmm?

digistil: calbert: digistil: Red Shirt Blues: I hate to be that guy but.......this could be self inflicted. Kind of like that woman who threw acid in her own face. I was looking at pics of the messages left on her walls. Pretty good printing for spray paint. I mean if you're an attacker all stoked up smashing doors in committing violence and arson.......
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In one way I hope I am wrong, that nobody could contrive this, OTOH I hope I am right that nobody would be sick enough to storm somebody's house and mutilate her because she's gay.

Very good point. Can you link to the source of the pics? I don't see them on the news story page.

do a GIS for 'Lincoln hate crime' and there they are.

Thanks. It is a bit tidy, and the gas fire going out screams strange to me, but time will tell. The truth is likely horrible no matter what.

I don't want to suggest this was self inflicted, because i have no clue. One thing that kind of doesn't make sense to me, is why would they bother carving slurs and spray painting if they planned to burn the place down? I may have missed something, or this has been discussed

I see that we have our very own Trayvon Martin thread here on Fark.

Typical.

I send my support to submitter and her friend.

I do struggle to see someone willingly do this to themselves. As the police haven't released all the details, there are probably several key points that have been intentionally not included and I'm refusing to jump the shark without more facts.

I can't explain why someone would think this is okay - ever.

/I think I'm losing faith in the world
//Hard to prepare my daughters for it

SkunkWerks: Again, if this statement wasn't implicit in your claim, then there's nothing there to defy the application of speculation. My assertion therefore becomes so near a certainty that all other infinitesimal possibilities are hardly worth consideration.

Your assertion only becomes a near certainty if it's the only possible option. You've given no evidence to suggest that it is. Again, it becomes nothing more than speculation on your part.

Regardless, your inability to approach this in any way that's remotely sensible has me thinking that the only other option is that you're just trolling me, and as I have better things to do, I'll bow out now. Should you feel the necessity of a last word, by all means.

Reports from other sites like CNN, Reuters, etc. have some more information. Things like her neighbor commenting that she looked like she had been tortured, the fact that she was openly gay, and the fact that having recently lost her job was volunteering with local children.

To those that are attempting to be forensic experts on spraypainted handwritting, you people are completely full of shiat. Go spend some time on a tagging crew and let me know how hard that is. Also, if she was tortured and carved into, the perps would have PLENTY of time to paint something legible.

To those that are attempting to be arson experts, note that gasoline does not work the way it is portrayed in the movies. The vapors tend to ignite and flash quickly, but the liquid itself burns slowly and only on the surface. Things under it wouldn't necessarily catch fire. If the flame didn't come into constant contact with a flammable vertical surface, then it would be completely possible to have it burn for a while without starting a larger fire.