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(Whatever - Scalzi)   John Scalzi just invalidated all of your arguments about your taxes being too high   (whatever.scalzi.com) divider line 538
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42305 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 4:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 07:25:51 PM  

BeSerious: The retard contingent is strong here.


This. Although I think calling them "retarded" is an insult to actual developmentally disabled people, who in general do not whine about being put upon nearly as much as the Fark Oppressed Straight White Male Club.

Straight white guys do have it awfully rough here in America. They're practically second-class citizens. If only they had people in leadership positions to look to as examples, to let them know that it is possible for people who look like them to succeed.
 
2012-07-23 07:27:56 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Any tax system that can afford to have people on welfare packing phones that cost more than my last car has taxes that are too high.

/invalidates the invalidation


There's a fine line between hyperbole and utter bullshiat, and you just stormed across it like Caesar crossing the Rubicon.
 
2012-07-23 07:32:07 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: BeSerious: The retard contingent is strong here.

This. Although I think calling them "retarded" is an insult to actual developmentally disabled people, who in general do not whine about being put upon nearly as much as the Fark Oppressed Straight White Male Club.

Straight white guys do have it awfully rough here in America. They're practically second-class citizens. If only they had people in leadership positions to look to as examples, to let them know that it is possible for people who look like them to succeed secede.


/what the people they look up to are more likely to propose
 
2012-07-23 07:32:32 PM  

Magnanimous_J: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: THAT is what "white privelage" means.

That's wealth privilege.


Poor whites don't generally accept their lack of privilege. Conservative ideology and all.
 
2012-07-23 07:34:18 PM  
I don't know if Federal Taxes are too high, but I do know the Federal Government has a tremendous amount of waste. I also know that Congress likes to spend our money like a sailor on shore leave. I would like these two things to stop before we talk about raising more revenue.
I realize we probably need to do both raise revenue and streamline/cut costs but lets do the latter first. Because in my lifetime I have never seen our government really streamline and tighten their belt.
 
2012-07-23 07:36:06 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: gerrymander: vpb: gerrymander: No dice, subby. Ever since Scalzi came out as a condescending, racist bigot, I have no interest in him, his opinions, or his fiction.

Really? What was that about?

He did a huge post a month or two ago about how being a straight, white guy is playing a videogame on "easy mode". (No. I'm not going to link it, for the same reason I don't link to Stormfront. It's on his website if you care that much.) Apparently, work is easier, cancer kills less, and leggy supermodels are always knocking down the door for anyone holding the Straight, White Male ID Card -- and if you can't make it, what a pathetic loser you must be!

It's one thing to view society through the lens of who has or doesn't have "privilege". It's not a viewpoint I agree with or find constructive, but moral codes have to start somewhere. It's another thing entirely to use that lens as an excuse to denigrate an entire segment of society based on their skin color, gender and sexual preference. And doing that to a sizable fraction of your own core audience in an appeal to that same fraction is beyond stupid.

So, yeah. I'm done, and F7U12, Scalzi. Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

Having read the blog post in question: It's okay. You can continue to enjoy Scalzi. I think it's pretty obvious that Assberger's counts as a disability, so clearly the blog doesn't apply to you.


Anyone read his reply?
I'll repost it for those that refuse to read him because of butthurt.


Lowest Difficulty Setting" Follow-Up
MAY 17, 2012 BY JOHN SCALZI
It's been a couple of days since I've posted the "Lowest Difficulty Setting" piece, and it's been fun and interesting watching the Intarweebs basically explode over it, especially the subclass of Straight White Males who cannot abide the idea that their lives play out on a fundamentally lower difficulty setting than everyone else's, and have spun themselves up in tight, angry circles because I dared to suggest that they do. Those dudes are cracking me up, and also making me a little sad.
There have been some general classes of statement/questions about the piece both on the site and elsewhere on the Internet, that I would like to address, so I'll do that here. Understand I am paraphrasing the questions/statements. In no particular order:
1. I fundamentally disagree with every single thing you said!
That's fine. It happens.
2. Your metaphor/analogy is good, except for [insert thing that commenter finds not good about the metaphor/analogy]
Well, yes. Metaphors are not perfect; it's why they're metaphors and not the thing the metaphor describes. Likewise analogies break down. I thought the "lowest difficulty setting" description worked well enough for what I wanted to say, but I don't think it's perfect. "Perfect" wasn't what I was aiming for. And of course, if you don't think it's the right metaphor/analogy, that's fine. Please, make a different and better one - the more ways we can make a general point to people who need to understand that general point, the better chance they will listen.
3. Your description should have put wealth/class as part of the difficulty setting.
Nope. Money and class are both hugely important and can definitely compensate for quite a lot, which I have of course noted in the entry itself. But they belong in the stats category because wealth and class are not an inherent part of one's personal nature - and in the US particularly, part of our cultural sorting behavior - in the manner that race, gender and sexuality are (note "inherent" here does not necessarily mean "immutable," but that's a conversation I'm not going to go into great detail about right now). You can disagree, of course. But speaking as someone who has been at both the bottom and the top of the wealth and class spectrum here in the US, I think I have enough personal knowledge on the matter to say it belongs where I put it.
4.I'm a straight white male and my life isn't easy! My life sucks! Your "lowest difficulty setting" doesn't account for that!
That's actually fully accounted for in the entry. Go back and read it again.
This one's a stand-in for all the complaints about the entry that come primarily either from not reading the entry, or not reading what was actually written in the entry in preference to a version of the entry that exists solely in that one person's head, and which is not the entry I wrote. Please, gentlemen, read what is there, not what you think is there, or what you believe must be there because you know you already disagree with what I have to say, no matter what it is I am saying.
5. What about affirmative action (and/or other similar programs)? It just proves SWMs don't have it easy anymore!
Asserting that programs designed to counteract decades of systematic discrimination are proof that Straight White Males are not operating on the lowest difficulty setting in the game of life is not the winning argument you apparently believe it is. I'll let you try to figure out why that is on your own. Likewise, anecdotal examples of a straight white guy getting the short end of the stick in some manner do not suggest that, therefore, it's hard out there for all straight white men all the time.
6. Your piece is racist and sexist.
This particular comment was lobbed at me primarily from aggrieved straight white males. Leaving aside entirely that the piece was neither, let me just say that I think it's delightful that these straight white males are now engaged on issues of racism and sexism. It would be additionally delightful if they were engaged on issues of racism and sexism even when they did not feel it was being applied to them - say, for example,when it's regarding people who historically have most often had to deal with racism and sexism (i.e., not white males). Keep at it, straight white males! You're on the path now!
7. I feel this piece is an attack on straight white men.
You need to re-calibrate your definition of "attack," then, because it's depressingly (or hilariously) out of whack. Suggesting all straight white men should be defenstrated into a courtyard covered with spikes would be an attack. Noting that straight white men operate at the lowest difficulty setting in life is an observation.
Otherwise, in a general sense, when people point out the things straight white men get on credit (or don't have to deal with), the unspoken part of that is not "and that's why we plan to burn all you bastards in a big screaming pile when the revolution comes," it's "hey, just so you know." Because you should know. It's not about blame, it's about knowledge. Stop assuming it's about blame. Paranoid and hypersensitive is no way to go through life.
8. You did not lay out in exhaustive factual detail, with graphs and charts, your assertion that straight white men operate at the lowest difficulty setting in our culture.
Also generally lobbed at me by aggrieved straight white men. And indeed I did not. Also, when I write about tripping over my shoelaces and falling on my ass, I do not preface the comment with a comprehensive discussion of the theory of gravity. For two reasons: One, it's not needed because for anyone but committed gravity-deniers, the theory of gravity is obvious and taken as read, and two, that's not the focus of the entry. In the case of the "lowest difficulty setting" entry, I took what I see as the obvious advantages to being straight, white and male in our culture as read. One may of course argue with that assertion, and some did in the previous comment thread, but I have to say I've generally found those arguments to be less than compelling (see point six, above).
9. In your comment thread with the article, you censored people who disagreed with you.
I indeed malleted quite a few people in that comment thread. Most of them disagreed with me philosophically on the issue under discussion. They were also being assholes. They were malleted for the latter, not the former. Who gets to judge when someone's being an asshole here? Why, I do. Because it's my site. A quick look through the comment thread in question shows that quite a few people, who disagreed with my ideas to varying levels of strenuousness, had their comments posted unmolested. That's because they were generally polite to others in the thread, did not lead with their asses, and their comments were not generally dripping with racism/sexism/condescension/stupidity. This is all covered in the comment policy, which is linked to on every page of the site.
Now, people may be upset that in addition to deleting people's comments, I also mocked them when I deleted their comments. But, you know, when you show up on my site and decide to shiat all over the carpet, I'm not going to be nice to you. Also, this.
10. I am never going to buy anything you write ever again.
I don't care.
11. Not every straight white man thinks what you wrote is wrong.
Of course. Noting that some straight white men are having difficulty accepting the idea they operate on the lowest difficulty setting in life doesn't mean that all straight white men do, or that any particular straight white men will experience said difficulties. Alternately, there are a lot of straight white men who think my premise is wrong to a greater or lesser extent, but who can express that disagreement cogently, and even forcefully, without additionally coming across as a five-year-old having a tantrum because he's been told he has to share his toys. Straight white men, like any group, have all sorts of personalities.
12. You wrote the article and pointed out the straight white men live life on the lowest difficulty setting. Okay, fine. What do I/we do next?
Well, that's up to you, isn't it? What I'm doing is pointing out a thing. What you do with that thing is your decision.
That said, here's what I do: recognize it, and work to make it so the more difficult settings in life becomes closer to the one I get to run through life on - by making those less difficult, mind you, not making mine more so.
(Update: Some final thoughts here.)

HILARIOUS!
 
2012-07-23 07:36:44 PM  
I'm sorry, but how can we take this "self made man" testimonial seriously if he not once use the terms "bootstraps", "handouts" or "job creators", hmm? Well??
 
2012-07-23 07:40:18 PM  
Why do only straight white males complain about anti-white anti-male rantings while pretty much everyone complains about anti-women or anti-this race stuff?

Also if your parents chose to starve you instead of get government assistance so you think you are somehow inept to paying taxes- uh no. Nobody should make the choice for someone else (even their children) to have to suffer. So it is awful that you had a bad childhood. Nobody else should have to go through that. But if you think that makes you 'self-made' you are in denial.

It was a good article, pretty basic if you understand how government and communities work. Pretty much the ideas that all human civilization were built no (uh, we get more done together than alone). One big thing he forgot to mention was how he never had to hide while his home was bombed or protect all his stuff from crazy rebels or anything like that. I have heard taxes explained as insurance. The more you make, the more you have to lose, the more you are paying the government to protect it. Even for people who don't believe in helping others or social welfare that should be easy to understand.
 
2012-07-23 07:40:26 PM  

Primum: Those of you white males who have supposedly experienced these things... did they happen to you because of your skin color, gender, sexual orientation, or other in-born thing you can't change? No? Then STFU and stop whining.


As someone who was one of the few white males who went to an almost all black Detroit high school, I think you're a farking moron.
 
2012-07-23 07:41:22 PM  

spidermilk: Also if your parents chose to starve you instead of get government assistance so you think you are somehow inept to paying taxes- uh no. Nobody should make the choice for someone else (even their children) to have to suffer. So it is awful that you had a bad childhood. Nobody else should have to go through that. But if you think that makes you 'self-made' you are in denial.


This, a thousand times over.
 
2012-07-23 07:41:39 PM  
Barak Obama=Black and rich
Tiger Woods=Black and rich.
BBQBob= White and not rich.

This invalidates everything said here!
 
2012-07-23 07:41:56 PM  

spidermilk: Even for people who don't believe in helping others or social welfare that should be easy to understand.


So were here from the government were here to help eh?
 
2012-07-23 07:43:30 PM  

gerrymander: Vlad_the_Inaner: Giving 'Thanks' at Thanksgiving is EXACTLY about being aware of what you've got, privileges included, and feeling good about it. Feeling good about that wouldn't diminish anyone.

I disagree. When a person speaks for himself (or as part of a self-inclusive group, such as a family Thanksgiving per your example, or a church congregation) about being aware of privileges, it can be humbling without being diminishing.

When a person speaks to others about their need to be aware of privilege, without identifying as part of that group, it is intended as a brickbat -- always and every time, in my experience. ...


preceptaustin.org
/wants a word with you...
 
2012-07-23 07:45:40 PM  
Ayn Rand's Social Worker:
HILARIOUS!


hah! they've got it the least difficult and manage to produce the most butthurt.
 
2012-07-23 07:45:49 PM  
moviemusereviews.com
Unavailable for comment.
 
2012-07-23 07:54:01 PM  

jimk777: Rincewind53: The subby is screwing with you. Scalzi's post is not in any way a post about taxes, it's a post in defense of Obama's statement that we all got somewhere through the help of others. It's a serious post, not sarcastic in the least bit.

You and Scalzi may be missing the point on why Obama's statements were so ignorant. If people succeed because of other people, society, government or whatever, then everyone should have succeeded to the same degree. If you didn't build your own business why doesn't everyone have a successful business? Disregarding the small percentage of people who succeed because of wealthy parents or the even smaller percentage of people who fail because they are literally brain damaged, everyone has access to the these same resources and opportunities. Some people are simply better at making use of resources and finding opportunities and some people aren't interested in what is usually the hard work and hours required to initially build a successful business. The resources and opportunities are available to all and people from all social and ethnic backgrounds have succeeded. The difference is purely down to the individual which is why it was either stupid or irrelevant for Obama to claim people don't build their own business simply because they are not alone on a deserted island by themself.


I think you missed a memo or two -
Link
Link
 
2012-07-23 07:55:33 PM  
That was excellent.
 
2012-07-23 07:58:07 PM  

gerrymander: Rincewind53: Wow. Turns out I was totally right. You ARE remarkably ignorant about privilege. And your reading comprehension sucks if you read any racism or sexism against white males into Scalzi's post.

The racism and sexism is present in the selective attention. If he had done an entire series of posts wherein different audiences each had their own privilege proclaimed as "easy mode" with an attendant examination of how they get benefits they might not merit, I wouldn't be complaining. (And if he did after I stopped reading, please say so, and I'll do my homework and reconsider.)

But parenthetical note aside, I'm fairly confident he didn't -- because like you, he doesn't actually acknowledge that different people may gain different societal benefits they don't merit in different situations. (Take these informal dating studies, for example. Not the results expected from the "straight, white male privilege" model, to say the least.) The elitism Scalzi displays is a modern form of what used to be called "the white man's burden", bringing enlightenment to the savages. That he's casting other white men in the role of the savages doesn't make the racism any less appalling.

That you can't recognize it is just embarrassing.


Did you READ that second study? You know, that showed how WHITE MEN get far more responses than any other men?

You're an idiot. You can't even defend your opinion in a remotely cogent manner.
 
2012-07-23 07:58:38 PM  

Virtue: Which is completely IRRELEVANT......


To you.
 
2012-07-23 07:59:20 PM  
I assure you , he didn't.
 
2012-07-23 08:01:21 PM  
Thank you?
 
2012-07-23 08:04:12 PM  
Unless you are THE farker that invented money and society, your money, if you have some piled up, comes from other people and the society that protects you.
You owe them.
Make it right.
 
2012-07-23 08:04:16 PM  

kasmel:

The amount unaccounted for falls into the range of statistical error. 4-7%.

The study is not capable of accounting for things like discrimination leading to part-time vs. full-time jobs. In fact, it attributes 0% of the difference in part- vs. full-time job holding to discrimination, by assumption. Read the methodology. After making such assumptions, it arrives at the 4-7% figure, but these assumptions themselves are what are in question.

I don't know if data exists that can answer this question. Therefore, I don't think we can conclude that discrimination is negligible. Regardless, I do agree with you that we should be looking at known underlying social factors that influence career choices (e.g., decoupling health care from employment).

 
2012-07-23 08:04:23 PM  
Thanks asshole subby, now I have to scrub my computer.
 
2012-07-23 08:05:19 PM  
Oops, with better quoting:

kasmel: The amount unaccounted for falls into the range of statistical error. 4-7%.


The study is not capable of accounting for things like discrimination leading to part-time vs. full-time jobs. In fact, it attributes 0% of the difference in part- vs. full-time job holding to discrimination, by assumption. Read the methodology. After making such assumptions, it arrives at the 4-7% figure, but these assumptions themselves are what are in question.

I don't know if data exists that can answer this question. Therefore, I don't think we can conclude that discrimination is negligible. Regardless, I do agree with you that we should be looking at known underlying social factors that influence career choices (e.g., decoupling health care from employment).
 
2012-07-23 08:05:50 PM  

SlothB77: Scalzi is oblivious to the fact the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently. Instead of paying high taxes now that will be redistributed by government, he could donate his money through private charities to achieve the same ends. And probably more efficiently.


If there's a profit side to things, how would it be more efficient? Medicare has a 3% overhead for administration. For-profits spend 20% of their revenue on non-medical related items. How can you claim efficiency in the private sector when it's 17% more inefficient? The VA is even better than Medicare in providing health care. Scalzi lived through that as a child. If his parents weren't in the military, there could be a good chance that John Scalzi might not be alive as his parents might have opted for an abortion.
 
2012-07-23 08:06:23 PM  

vpb: It's a great article, but I think most of the anti tax types could write a similar article if they were honest (and literate) enough.

You can't run a business without infrastructure to transport goods and services, a legal system and police to keep people from taking your product instead of paying for it, a currency so you can have commerce without having to barter, and lots more along that line.
.


And yet the Silk Road was built over a thousand years ago, without any of the things you mentioned.

//All the hard work you put into making yourself successful throughout your life, you didn't do that.
 
2012-07-23 08:07:17 PM  
As a straight white male I will offer my stock response to Scalzi and any others who speak of white privilege, male privilege and or hetero privilege.

In the role playing game known as The Real World, "Straight White Male" is the lowest difficulty setting there is.

Yeah, and?

That usually kills the discussion.

"You have privilege!"
"Yeah, and?"
"That's wrong"
"Yeah, and?"
"Someone should do something!"
"Yeah, and?"
"And what?!!!"
"I don't know, you brought it up."
 
2012-07-23 08:09:49 PM  

MikeMc: "Someone should do something!"
"Yeah, and?"
"And what?!!!"
"I don't know, you brought it up."


I think the general response, and the one that Scalzi mentioned is something along the lines of "That's fine, but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining."

Not implying you personally are doing that. But I'm seeing it on both sides. But mostly the other side, cause, y'know, it's not the side I'm on. :)
 
2012-07-23 08:10:26 PM  

cynispasm: Animals aren't going to riot and rob your ass if they get hungry.


You're right- animals will just attack and eat you.

And in both cases, the correct response is to defend yourself, killing if necessary. Eventually, the...animals... will learn to leave you alone (or they'll all be dead).
 
2012-07-23 08:11:41 PM  
If the bottom-line is we start to be accountable to each other as humanity should be, i.e. money consolidation is BAD for humanity, we feed each other, and we love each other first, then, YES!

;)
 
2012-07-23 08:11:59 PM  

ph0rk: And when one group systematically gets a worse hand, generation after generation? Let me guess: not your problem?


Inner city blacks have a teenage pregnancy rate that is of epidemic proportions. Fatherless households are becoming the norm. Economic hardship is increases as a result. This isn't some horror caused by roving bands of privileged whites raping young black girls. This is black men farking black woman without protection and not being responsible. Why? Because blaming "white privilege" makes is acceptable to not take responsibility for your own actions.

You are correct. It is not my problem.
 
2012-07-23 08:12:18 PM  

Diogenes The Cynic: vpb: It's a great article, but I think most of the anti tax types could write a similar article if they were honest (and literate) enough.

You can't run a business without infrastructure to transport goods and services, a legal system and police to keep people from taking your product instead of paying for it, a currency so you can have commerce without having to barter, and lots more along that line.
.

And yet the Silk Road was built over a thousand years ago, without any of the things you mentioned.

//All the hard work you put into making yourself successful throughout your life, you didn't do that.


Unless you did all that hard work on a desert island, by yourself from birth, without family, housing, education, and defence from predators, don't go getting all proud of a little work.
 
2012-07-23 08:13:15 PM  
If only there were a way for him to contribute more taxes.....
 
2012-07-23 08:14:15 PM  

Prof. Ann Marion: gerrymander: Vlad_the_Inaner: Giving 'Thanks' at Thanksgiving is EXACTLY about being aware of what you've got, privileges included, and feeling good about it. Feeling good about that wouldn't diminish anyone.

I disagree. When a person speaks for himself (or as part of a self-inclusive group, such as a family Thanksgiving per your example, or a church congregation) about being aware of privileges, it can be humbling without being diminishing.

When a person speaks to others about their need to be aware of privilege, without identifying as part of that group, it is intended as a brickbat -- always and every time, in my experience. ...

[preceptaustin.org image 400x458]
/wants a word with you...


Did you miss the the bit about "church congregation"? Jesus teaching to his followers -- note the possessive -- is pretty much the archetypical example of the "inclusive" type.

What I'm looking for is one example -- just one! -- by anyone who writes about privilege who concludes that having it is thing worth merit. Because odds are if it exists, I'll have more by that author to read, as well as commentary for and against.
 
2012-07-23 08:15:32 PM  
Taxes is where rich people take money from poor people and put it into a pool to pay for things that rich people and poor people both use and need. It's a volume business and so far, unless they find away to initiate a 200% tax rate, it's all just going down a black hole located inside a checkbook with a negative balance that would make Croesus swoon. Light hearted anecdotal stories are a good read, but the system is fundamentally broken and the money is imaginary. You have to make stuff for your money to have value and if your money has no value, your taxes are just moving more debt in one direction. That direction is down. That debt is then harvested and utilized as a lever to move more wealth upward. The money is a mass delusion.
 
2012-07-23 08:18:45 PM  

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.


thank you!
 
2012-07-23 08:26:45 PM  

SlothB77: Scalzi is oblivious to the fact the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently. Instead of paying high taxes now that will be redistributed by government, he could donate his money through private charities to achieve the same ends. And probably more efficiently.


That is very naive. The private sector is profit driven. It will only help the destitute if there a few billion bucks to be made in the process.

If you mean charities when you say the private sector, you are once again being naive. Although charities are mostly driven by goodwill, many of them have a religious axe to grind. And even those that don't, still rely on the goodwill and generosity of ordinary people to fund their work. The majority of people, when given a tax cut will spend it on themselves, not on charity.

Once again I find it necessary to point out that I have never been so shocked as when I visited the US a few years ago to see how many poor people are now begging on street corners. It certainly was not this bad in the 1970s. What has changed since then? You now pay much lower taxes, so there is less money to help those in need.

No wonder you have such sky high levels of crime in the US. When you paid adequate taxes to fund a proper society you were the envy of the world. Now you are viewed with scorn and contempt - 'only in America' and 'typical yank stupidity' being just two of the things I have heard people around me say in the last few days.

No one likes or respects you any more. Yes, I know, no one likes or respects me either. But I never was popular, admired or successful. But you were once seen as the shining light on the hill.
 
2012-07-23 08:26:52 PM  

MyRandomName: I love this strawman liberals are setting up to defend Obama. Nobody is arguing success happens in a vacuum. The argument is what is responsible for a successful business. A lot of hard work goes into creating a business, the government does not get to say they are mostly responsible for that as Obama implies. Taking a long reading of Obama's inference, everyone would be successful merely because roads exist. That is not the case whatsoever. Individuals utilize public shares to the best of their capacity. The web we know today would not exist without capitalists improving on the darpanet infrastructure.

If Obama wants credit for all successful business, he has to take credit for business that fails as well. For every road that allowed the transport of good there is a regulation that made the market to costly for some to enter; whether it is eminent domain, costly regulations, cost of licensing (hair dressers), etc. Government can help or hinder a business. But it takes an individual to CREATE the business, not government. That is what Obama said wrong, individuals do create business.


Yeah, remember how Henry Ford personally built every single car that came off his assembly line? That was a hell of a man!
 
2012-07-23 08:29:32 PM  

kg2095: SlothB77: Scalzi is oblivious to the fact the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently. Instead of paying high taxes now that will be redistributed by government, he could donate his money through private charities to achieve the same ends. And probably more efficiently.

That is very naive. The private sector is profit driven. It will only help the destitute if there a few billion bucks to be made in the process.

If you mean charities when you say the private sector, you are once again being naive. Although charities are mostly driven by goodwill, many of them have a religious axe to grind. And even those that don't, still rely on the goodwill and generosity of ordinary people to fund their work. The majority of people, when given a tax cut will spend it on themselves, not on charity.

Once again I find it necessary to point out that I have never been so shocked as when I visited the US a few years ago to see how many poor people are now begging on street corners. It certainly was not this bad in the 1970s. What has changed since then? You now pay much lower taxes, so there is less money to help those in need.

No wonder you have such sky high levels of crime in the US. When you paid adequate taxes to fund a proper society you were the envy of the world. Now you are viewed with scorn and contempt - 'only in America' and 'typical yank stupidity' being just two of the things I have heard people around me say in the last few days.

No one likes or respects you any more. Yes, I know, no one likes or respects me either. But I never was popular, admired or successful. But you were once seen as the shining light on the hill.


The good old days?
 
2012-07-23 08:29:43 PM  

namatad: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.

thank you!


Agreed, but could we feed, clothe, shelter, and secure from wanton violence, world, first, please?

Oh wait.

We can do this ALL at the same time...

;)
 
2012-07-23 08:30:32 PM  

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.


And?

/Stock response in action
//Also, the term "cis-gendered" is lost on 99.9% of Farkers the human population.
 
2012-07-23 08:30:34 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: skinnycatullus: WTF is going on in this thread?

fta: I hope the taxes I pay will help some military wife give birth

He doesn't seem to know the basics of biology. But taxes can do it all!


You have horrible reading comprehension.
 
2012-07-23 08:32:06 PM  

vpb: You can't run a business without infrastructure to transport goods and services, a legal system and police to keep people from taking your product instead of paying for it, a currency so you can have commerce without having to barter, and lots more along that line.


I think I read somewhere that the national infrastructure in the US is worth around $200k per person. And then consider the vast amount of scientific and technical knowledge much of it funded through direct and indirect subsidies.
 
2012-07-23 08:34:23 PM  
John Scalzi just invalidated all of your arguments about your taxes being too high

Like hell he has...
 
2012-07-23 08:34:51 PM  
He's a hero because the slobbered on the government teet for the first thirty years of his life while my parents had to work second jobs and pay for everything out of their own pocket?

My parents, who had no one to help them, who had to get by on their wits and hard work?

/ self employed
// did it on my own
 
2012-07-23 08:35:16 PM  

namatad: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.

thank you!


Lol yes, white males feel no pain.
 
2012-07-23 08:35:40 PM  

KIA: The problem with high taxes arises when they createmay a barrier of entry for the middle class and a ceiling on middle-class wage earners.


you do realize that taxes in the US are progressive? that the amount that you pay increases on the portion over a certain amount? not on the total income? when you enter the next bracket you only pay a few dollars more??

or were you just being a troll?
 
2012-07-23 08:39:28 PM  

Villemus Fortis: [images.sodahead.com image 500x416]


It's "Largest Number" of food stamps, not the largest "Amount." If you want to talk about the "Amount" of money, that's fine, but don't say "Amount" of food stamps. Handy guide: Link. If you're going to attempt to call somebody stupid, at least get your grammar correct. Second, if you're going to call someone stupid, try not to use so obvious of a false equivalence
 
2012-07-23 08:42:04 PM  

snocone: Diogenes The Cynic: vpb: It's a great article, but I think most of the anti tax types could write a similar article if they were honest (and literate) enough.

You can't run a business without infrastructure to transport goods and services, a legal system and police to keep people from taking your product instead of paying for it, a currency so you can have commerce without having to barter, and lots more along that line.
.

And yet the Silk Road was built over a thousand years ago, without any of the things you mentioned.

//All the hard work you put into making yourself successful throughout your life, you didn't do that.

Unless you did all that hard work on a desert island, by yourself from birth, without family, housing, education, and defence from predators, don't go getting all proud of a little work.


Came into this country as a refugee bro. We had our clothes, and a few pieces of luggage.
And yet, this generation, which in my family is 8 sets of parents, and about 30 children has produced:

4 doctors
2 engineers
3 dentists
1 lawyer
5 small business owners

The rest are either out of the work force intentionally (raising children, college) or salaried/wage earners.

But I guess we got to where we are from being white. That helped out a lot. Amirite?

And before you say we would have been more limited in our home country (which was settling down after a revolution) remember that the kind of mentality that produces infrastructure isn't the kind that sits around whining about how its not fair that everyone else is better off than they.
 
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