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(Whatever - Scalzi)   John Scalzi just invalidated all of your arguments about your taxes being too high   (whatever.scalzi.com) divider line 538
    More: Hero, Air Force Base, Mr. Johnson, Fresno Bee, Glendora  
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42300 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 4:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 06:46:43 PM

Old Smokie: I got here on my own. Fark you


Except of course for the personal assistance who has to change your diapers. But ya, otherwise, on your own big guy.
 
2012-07-23 06:48:04 PM

Monongahela Misfit: So being honest, and objective to a fault, regarding Your experience of reality is wrong, or bad? Especially when You are intent on changing the status quo to better reflect the vision You have of what is right?


He's not being objective to a fault. If he was, he wouldn't be eliding a complex interaction of genetic and cultural behaviors into an undifferentiated paste labeled "privilege", or negating the role of the individual in favor of broad social constructs.

But I agree that "intent to change the status quo to his vision" is the goal.
 
2012-07-23 06:49:24 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.


This makes me chuckle every time I see it.
 
2012-07-23 06:50:38 PM
Hero? So big govt obamoron equals hero? Wow, no wonder our soldiers, police and firefighters are treated so poorly by the loony left.
Soldiers are left jobless by this administration after serving our great country. Cops are spit on and taunted by the ows stinkhippies and firefighters lose their firehouses so some dem politician can give money to the taker class in exchange for votes.
You libs should look up the word hero or get an adult to help you with the real meaning.
 
2012-07-23 06:51:27 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.


I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.Just out of the Army in 1986, applied to be a policeman in Indianapolis. Was told by the person taking the applications at the City-County building, "If you're not black, or a woman, you're wasting your time. They're not going to hire you."

I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.

I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life. Was chased out of Willard Park in Indianapolis by a group of knife wielding blacks for attempting to play basketball while being white.

I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.

I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition. I could banter on this subject for not having my good work noticed, etc., but this one sounds llike someone is crying a little too much

I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter. Lived at no less than 10 different addresses while growing up. I remember stretches of living in the station wagon, and being dropped off at school for days at a time while my cash strapped parents were trying to find a place to live. One thanksgiving, all my mom had in the kitchen was a loaf of bread, some sugar, and some butter. We had fried toast with sugar on it, because that was a farkin' treat for us.

and NOT ONCE did my parents go on the dole from the government.


THAT is what "guilt ridden rich libtard white privelage" means.

I hate stupid libtard phuqs. Not you regular libtards, but the ones that think I should feel guilty for being who I am. Walk in my "white privilaged" shoes for a bit, then think about the stupid list you came up with.
 
2012-07-23 06:51:38 PM

gerrymander: Monongahela Misfit: So being honest, and objective to a fault, regarding Your experience of reality is wrong, or bad? Especially when You are intent on changing the status quo to better reflect the vision You have of what is right?

He's not being objective to a fault. If he was, he wouldn't be eliding a complex interaction of genetic and cultural behaviors into an undifferentiated paste labeled "privilege", or negating the role of the individual in favor of broad social constructs.

But I agree that "intent to change the status quo to his vision" is the goal.


Because everyone out there is just as happy to hire Jamal as they are to hire Greg: Link
 
2012-07-23 06:51:50 PM
Third that Old Man's War is a great read. Cory Doctorow, however, who is also mentioned in the article, is freaking awful. The only reason I kept reading his Makers was in the hope that all of the main characters would be slowly tortured to death.
 
2012-07-23 06:52:24 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Smeggy Smurf: They can use what I have. An $18 Tracphone. It makes phone calls just fine. No moocher should be using a smart phone. They should be getting a job. If that means uprooting and moving the bread winner to the Dakotas to work the oil fields then do it.

My iPhone 3 was $0.99, Mr Monopoly. Did they serve you caviar and give you a complimentary blowjob with that $18 phone?


You damned right they offered it. Instead of taking it I let a local Air Farce puke have it.

/USCG FTW
 
2012-07-23 06:52:32 PM

jimk777: Umm, no it is pretty much fact. The overall resources of society are there for everyone. Anyone who is not stupid and willing to dedicate themselves to the effort required could get a good scholarship to a good school for example. Everyone is born with some specific advantages or disadvantages that would affect them being able to accomplish that. Focusing on any one factor is ridiculous and irrelevant. Who is more likely to get a scholarship to Harvard, the white male with an IQ of 70 born to a single mother in backwoods Arkansas or the genius and multi-talented black woman born to a wealthy family in NYC? Outside of such extreme examples the point is that the same general pool so to speak of resources are available ...


restating your opinion emphatically is not any kind of proof. let's agree to disagree.
 
2012-07-23 06:53:06 PM

Tumunga: I hate stupid libtard phuqs. Not you regular libtards, but the ones that think I should feel guilty for being who I am. Walk in my "white privilaged" shoes for a bit, then think about the stupid list you came up with.


Bravo for fighting what may or may not be bic lighter stupid with genuine blowtorch derp. Way to go there guy.
 
2012-07-23 06:53:31 PM

skinnycatullus: WTF is going on in this thread?


fta: I hope the taxes I pay will help some military wife give birth

He doesn't seem to know the basics of biology. But taxes can do it all!
 
2012-07-23 06:53:35 PM
Where's the cliff notes?
 
2012-07-23 06:55:03 PM

Virtue: That is the point where he loses credibility......


Loses "credibility"? Is his point (that success is a function of both external and internal factors) factually untrue, or do you just disagree with his philosophy? If the latter, how does that affect his "credibility"?

its the individual's response to the lot they have been dealt in life.....

Is important, but not the only relevant factor to that individual's success. Which again, was Scalzi's point.
 
2012-07-23 06:56:20 PM

jmr61: Where's the cliff notes?


no man is an island and we all (especially the wealthy) use the advantages granted by living in our society to become successful.
 
2012-07-23 06:58:03 PM

Ambitwistor: Is important, but not the only relevant factor to that individual's success. Which again, was Scalzi's point.


Which is completely IRRELEVANT......Once again some people get dealt a better hand in life....its what you do with it that counts.....crying about how you got a bad hand is the crap every one is tired of listening to.
 
2012-07-23 06:58:21 PM
Title of the article: A Self-Made Man Looks At How He Made It

First sentence: To begin, my mother and father are responsible for me existing at all

Okay, so he already refuted his premise. He was not self-made. His parents made him.

He DIDN'T do it by himself and at some point he probably used A BRIDGE!

0bama is right. This guy is a loser.
 
2012-07-23 06:59:32 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.


And that attitude is why you will remain bitter, poor person for the rest of your miserable life.
 
2012-07-23 07:00:22 PM

timujin: Odd reaction from the first couple of posters... but anyway, this is pretty much a well-worded retread of things that have been said here many times. I don't care who you are or what you do, you didn't get there "on your own".


Right about that. I owe my Mom plenty. She worked 2-3 jobs constantly while I was growing up and going to college.

I worked my way through college, with help from my mom.

I only owe 1 person in this world anything. Everything else I got on my own by working hard.

As to the tax thing. My big issue is that people making more than me should not pay less, in percent of their income, than I do.

That is clearly BS. Mitt Romney and all his ilk should STFU and pay their fair share.
 
2012-07-23 07:01:27 PM
That guy is a real human being.

Awesome
 
2012-07-23 07:01:54 PM

Virtue: Ambitwistor: Is important, but not the only relevant factor to that individual's success. Which again, was Scalzi's point.

Which is completely IRRELEVANT......Once again some people get dealt a better hand in life....its what you do with it that counts.....crying about how you got a bad hand is the crap every one is tired of listening to.


And when one group systematically gets a worse hand, generation after generation? Let me guess: not your problem?

You know, you can accept that the game is systematically unfair without selling all your stuff in the bargain.

You aren't interested in the game being made more fair (which would let the truly gifted rise to the top). You must not be that gifted, I guess. What have you got to lose?
 
2012-07-23 07:02:18 PM

Voiceofreason01: jmr61: Where's the cliff notes?

no man is an island and we all (especially the wealthy) use the advantages granted by living in our society to become successful.


In other words, common sense.
 
2012-07-23 07:02:37 PM
He's gotta be wrong.

The Republicans have told us that all government is a worthless waste of money and never helped anybody unless it was blowing things up and killing brown and yellow people.

And if the financial geniuses that make up the Republican Party today say something, it must be true.
 
2012-07-23 07:03:03 PM

Pincy: Voiceofreason01: jmr61: Where's the cliff notes?

no man is an island and we all (especially the wealthy) use the advantages granted by living in our society to become successful.

In other words, common sense.


hence the wharrgarbl in response.
 
2012-07-23 07:03:26 PM

ph0rk: You aren't interested in the game being made more fair


Who gets to decide what's fair?
 
2012-07-23 07:04:25 PM
The retard contingent is strong here. Many additions to the ignore list, thanks.

Villemus Fortis: [images.sodahead.com image 500x416]


Soooooo people are animals?
Did you actually post this?
Who are you saying are animals?
I'm surprised you didn't put a picture of a monkey there.
Asshole.
You're that stupid.

Assholes always like to pretend that EVERYONE is taking advantage of the situation,
and disregard that all people aren't assholes like them.
 
2012-07-23 07:04:36 PM

Virtue: ph0rk: You aren't interested in the game being made more fair

Who gets to decide what's fair?


That's an empirical question - are resources like income and prestige distributed according to motivation and ability? No? The deck is stacked.
 
2012-07-23 07:04:40 PM

ph0rk: Tumunga: I hate stupid libtard phuqs. Not you regular libtards, but the ones that think I should feel guilty for being who I am. Walk in my "white privilaged" shoes for a bit, then think about the stupid list you came up with.

Bravo for fighting what may or may not be bic lighter stupid with genuine blowtorch derp. Way to go there guy.


Thanks!
 
2012-07-23 07:05:13 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Giving 'Thanks' at Thanksgiving is EXACTLY about being aware of what you've got, privileges included, and feeling good about it. Feeling good about that wouldn't diminish anyone.


I disagree. When a person speaks for himself (or as part of a self-inclusive group, such as a family Thanksgiving per your example, or a church congregation) about being aware of privileges, it can be humbling without being diminishing.

When a person speaks to others about their need to be aware of privilege, without identifying as part of that group, it is intended as a brickbat -- always and every time, in my experience. (Now, as my experience is far from total, I'm willing to grant I may be overlooking something, which is why I'm open to a counter-example. That we've gotten this far without one is indicative.)

Scalzi's post is explicitly of the "to others" variety. He's not convincing himself, or including himself. He is trying to convert the heathens who "just don't get it" and therefore need a metaphor dumbed down to their brute male-gamer mindset. His intent is to diminish a category of others.
 
2012-07-23 07:05:29 PM

ph0rk: That's an empirical question - are resources like income and prestige distributed according to motivation and ability? No? The deck is stacked.


Which in no way shape or form addresses the question
 
2012-07-23 07:06:11 PM

Tumunga: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.

[...]

I do know what it's like to go without food or shelter. Lived at no less than 10 different addresses while growing up. I remember stretches of living in the station wagon, and being dropped off at school for days at a time while my cash strapped parents were trying to find a place to live. One thanksgiving, all my mom had in the kitchen was a loaf of bread, some sugar, and some butter. We had fried toast with sugar on it, because that was a farkin' treat for us.

and NOT ONCE did my parents go on the dole from the government.


wow, you must be real proud of your parents for letting you go hungry rather than going on the dole. bright decision makers, there. good job.

(by the way, i also went hungry as a kid and had periods of vagrancy and uncertain housing. but my parents cared more about me having nutritious food to eat and a safe place to sleep than they did about hurting their egos by "going on the dole".)
 
2012-07-23 07:06:23 PM
The idea that we need government to keep a system of laws, contracts and defense does not empower government to turn us into spigots which they can then turn in any which way. It also means that spending should be a function of revenue, not the other way around.
 
2012-07-23 07:06:24 PM

Primum: I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

Those of you white males who have supposedly experienced these things... did they happen to you because of your skin color, gender, sexual orientation, or other in-born thing you can't change? No? Then STFU and stop whining.

If you're saying these things because you're short or fat, or have Assburgers, or crippling shyness, or crippling body-odor, then STFU also because those things can be mitigated.

Short or fat people can lift weights. Assburgs or the shy can get therapy. Stank ass people can take a bath and use Axe.


Do you actually believe these things only occur because of skin color? So my calling you a whiney ass for this post is only because you're not white. Being a whiney ass would probably never figure into that equation would it?
 
2012-07-23 07:06:31 PM

gerrymander: Teufelaffe: "feel worse about themselves" = "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges"

FTFY. I'll reconsider if you can come up with one example where "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges" means "feel better about themselves".


I'll take a stab at it. "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges" = "feel better about themselves"

/works for me, every time.
 
2012-07-23 07:06:34 PM

Virtue: ph0rk: That's an empirical question - are resources like income and prestige distributed according to motivation and ability? No? The deck is stacked.

Which in no way shape or form addresses the question


I just gave you the terms of fair. Why do you need a "decider"?
 
2012-07-23 07:06:46 PM

Ambitwistor: kasmel: Here's the foreward on a gender wage gap report done for the department of labor requested by the Obama administration.

The CONSAD report was requested by the Bush administration. Look at the date.

Didn't see that, the article I found it in was made later.

/Damn you reading!

Also, it doesn't have the ability to really resolve causal questions. For example, there are more women in part-time jobs, but how much of that observation is attributable to women's free choices in the absence of any discriminatory factors, and how much is attributable to discrimination? The report can't say. (And either way, there is a wage gap, the dispute is just about what causes it.)

The amount unaccounted for falls into the range of statistical error. 4-7%.

I support the lily ledbetter act for enforcing equal pay, but I do not believe that there's a substantial influence of discrimination at fault for the discrepancy. I agree that women should be paid the same for the same work provided that they have the same qualifications and experience. What we should be doing, instead of whining about discrimination that we are assuming, and using numbers that are inflated to make the problem seem larger than it is, is actually address the very real and obvious differences in what women and men look for in jobs, and see if we can make THOSE things more equitable.

First and foremost, health insurance tied to employment means that mothers to be or women looking to be pregnant are more likely to be looking for dependable, good, health insurance than a raise. Decoupling health insurance from employment should go a long way to opening up the labor market for women as regards those choices.

And that's just one example. There are very real things that we can focus on to address the discrepancies such that men and women can compete in the labor market on more equal footing, rather than just blaming it on old white men looking down their noses at women.

Once we've addressed the things we CAN identify, then we can further look into what remains. Fix the problems we can see and know from empirical evidence, don't go making things up to explain the ones we can't yet.

 
2012-07-23 07:07:24 PM

ph0rk: I just gave you the terms of fair. Why do you need a "decider"?


Answer the question who gets to decide what's fair?
 
2012-07-23 07:07:44 PM
kasmel:

sigh...html fail...it's the end of my day, what do you want from me?
 
2012-07-23 07:11:48 PM

Virtue: ph0rk: I just gave you the terms of fair. Why do you need a "decider"?

Answer the question who gets to decide what's fair?


Me, because you're apparently not capable of figuring it out.
 
2012-07-23 07:12:34 PM

ph0rk: Me, because you're apparently not capable of figuring it out.


Finally a straight answer......so You get to be the Judge of the world eh?
 
2012-07-23 07:12:34 PM

Teufelaffe: Cybernetic: what_now: Reader, I married her
I don't know who this guy is, but I just fell in love with him.
If you like sci-fi at all, read Old Man's War. In fact, even if you don't like sci-fi, read it anyway. It's an excellent book.

Seconded and thirded.


lulfas: Old Man's War is one of the best new Sci-Fi books there is. The sequel is amazingly good as well.



It appears to me that the purpose of this guy's article was to plug his book, and it worked.
 
2012-07-23 07:13:07 PM

llpk79: gerrymander: Teufelaffe: "feel worse about themselves" = "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges"

FTFY. I'll reconsider if you can come up with one example where "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges" means "feel better about themselves".

I'll take a stab at it. "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges" = "feel better about themselves"

/works for me, every time.


You are assumimg they feel bad (and feel this compulsion to feel better) in the first place.
 
2012-07-23 07:14:43 PM

Virtue: ph0rk: Me, because you're apparently not capable of figuring it out.

Finally a straight answer......so You get to be the Judge of the world eh?


Is inability to detect unfairness really the issue, here?

We don't have a meritocracy, that is plain and obvious to anyone who isn't trying to argue they bootstrapped their way to the top.
 
2012-07-23 07:15:32 PM
Which came first?

The maggot or the fly.

3.bp.blogspot.com


Has anybody asked yet what the heck is going on in this thread?
 
2012-07-23 07:17:42 PM

clowncar on fire: llpk79: gerrymander: Teufelaffe: "feel worse about themselves" = "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges"

FTFY. I'll reconsider if you can come up with one example where "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges" means "feel better about themselves".

I'll take a stab at it. "be more aware and appreciative of their privileges" = "feel better about themselves"

/works for me, every time.

You are assumimg they feel bad (and feel this compulsion to feel better) in the first place.


You are assuming that one must feel bad to feel better.
 
2012-07-23 07:18:02 PM

Villemus Fortis: [images.sodahead.com image 500x416]



Animals aren't going to riot and rob your ass if they get hungry.
 
2012-07-23 07:18:21 PM

ph0rk: Is inability to detect unfairness really the issue, here?


Absolutely it is because FAIRNESS / UNFAIRNESS is COMPLETELY subjective and retaliative.
 
2012-07-23 07:18:39 PM

gerrymander: vpb: gerrymander: No dice, subby. Ever since Scalzi came out as a condescending, racist bigot, I have no interest in him, his opinions, or his fiction.

Really? What was that about?

He did a huge post a month or two ago about how being a straight, white guy is playing a videogame on "easy mode". (No. I'm not going to link it, for the same reason I don't link to Stormfront. It's on his website if you care that much.) Apparently, work is easier, cancer kills less, and leggy supermodels are always knocking down the door for anyone holding the Straight, White Male ID Card -- and if you can't make it, what a pathetic loser you must be!

It's one thing to view society through the lens of who has or doesn't have "privilege". It's not a viewpoint I agree with or find constructive, but moral codes have to start somewhere. It's another thing entirely to use that lens as an excuse to denigrate an entire segment of society based on their skin color, gender and sexual preference. And doing that to a sizable fraction of your own core audience in an appeal to that same fraction is beyond stupid.

So, yeah. I'm done, and F7U12, Scalzi. Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.


Hi,
I am white,straight,male and i live in a modern western country.If nothing else Scalzi was actually sugarcoating it.
We get to play on easy mode and we get to do it with a cheat code called "Socioeconomic Supremacy".
 
2012-07-23 07:20:01 PM

Mr. Right: Nobody ever makes it entirely on his own. But the inference, started by Elizabeth Warren and plagiarized by Obama, is that the government is responsible for everyone's success. That is where they are wrong.

The government, in the U.S., does not own the means of production and does not create wealth. When it builds a road to go to your factory, it does so with tax dollars that come to it as a result of economic activity in the private sector. All government spending is funded by taxing the private sector or by printing money, which is a debt that must be repaid, someday, by the private sector. In the U.S., it is only the success of the private sector that allows the government to be as generous as it is.

Scalzi also received welfare benefits of various sorts. Once again, the government has no money of its own to hand out, that money comes from private sector productivity. If I give a hungry person something to eat from my own kitchen, that is charity and that is laudable. Would I be viewed as laudable if I broke into my neighbor's pantry and gave the hungry food from there? No, I would be considered a thief. At the very least, the person from whom I stole the food might not think my beneficiary worthy of his beneficence and may have wished to give it to someone else. Just because the government has passed laws that permit them to confiscate private productivity and hand it out to those it deems worthy does not make it a moral activity. It may be legal, it is not moral. In addition to stealing in order to look charitable, it robs the productive of the incentive, and in some cases, the ability to be charitable.

In communist or socialist countries, the government owns everything and is perfectly entitled to pass it out as it wishes. We weren't originally set up that way. It is also instructive that poverty has not significantly declined since the inception of the war on poverty. The biggest dips in the poverty rate coincide not with government program ...

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

 
2012-07-23 07:22:17 PM
coloradoright.files.wordpress.com

Part of the legacy of "white privelage"...

Also, see history of Ireland, Scotland, France... just pick up a book on European history.
 
2012-07-23 07:25:50 PM

cynispasm: Villemus Fortis: [images.sodahead.com image 500x416]


Animals aren't going to riot and rob your ass if they get hungry.


You've never been in area of drought or extended deep freeze, have you?
 
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