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(Whatever - Scalzi)   John Scalzi just invalidated all of your arguments about your taxes being too high   (whatever.scalzi.com) divider line 538
    More: Hero, Air Force Base, Mr. Johnson, Fresno Bee, Glendora  
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42294 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 4:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 05:17:34 PM

ThatDarkFellow: "I grew up in a time when the economy wasn't as awful as it is now and the entire family didn't need employment to scrape by. Since nothing ever changes I don't see why people are complaining about taxes"


i290.photobucket.com

FTFA: "My parents' marriage did not last particularly long and in the early seventies - and off and on for the next several years - my mother found herself in the position of having to rely on the social net of welfare and food stamps to make sure that when she couldn't find work (or alternately, could find it but it didn't pay enough), she was able to feed her children and herself. Once again, I owe thanks to America's taxpayers for making sure I had enough to eat at various times when I was a child."
 
2012-07-23 05:18:33 PM

Cybernetic: what_now: Reader, I married her

I don't know who this guy is, but I just fell in love with him.

If you like sci-fi at all, read Old Man's War. In fact, even if you don't like sci-fi, read it anyway. It's an excellent book.


Seconded and thirded.
 
2012-07-23 05:18:33 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Smeggy Smurf: Any tax system that can afford to have people on welfare packing phones that cost more than my last car has taxes that are too high

My iPhone 3 was $0.99 since I signed up for a 2 year service plan so I'm not sure what your point is. Are you complaining that people on welfare can afford a phone?


How much does that service plan cost relative to one on a more modest phone that doesn't include any data usage?
 
2012-07-23 05:18:55 PM

jake_lex: I love when teabaggers think restating the same herp-a-derp a bit more forcefully is "proving liberals wrong.'


John Scalzi is pretty much the opposite of a Teabagger.
 
2012-07-23 05:19:04 PM

gerrymander:
It's one thing to view society through the lens of who has or doesn't have "privilege". It's not a viewpoint I agree with or find constructive, but moral codes have to start somewhere. It's another thing entirely to use that lens as an excuse to denigrate an entire segment of society based on their skin color, gender and sexual preference. And doing that to a sizable fraction of your own core audience in an appeal to that same fraction is beyond stupid.


As a white straight male I was unable to discern anything denigrating to white straight males in that particular blog of Scalzi. Would you care to enlighten us to what makes you foam at the mouth about the pretty realistic observation that by and large life is easier for straight white males?

Okay, life is temporarily easier when you're a hot white woman (regardless of sexual preference) in her late teens, early twenties. But then age catches up. What is your beef?
 
2012-07-23 05:20:19 PM
Anyone who thinks Prop. 13 is responsible for California's education problems is regurgitating someone else's talking points and has no actual knowledge of the topic.

Prop. 98
 
2012-07-23 05:20:21 PM

roxtar10870: Taxes = theft... What good Might be done with the stolen money doesn't make it moral.
This guy is an idiot.


You ever choke on your own spittle or do you just let it fly all over your monitor?
 
2012-07-23 05:22:11 PM

gerrymander: Apparently, work is easier, cancer kills less, and leggy supermodels are always knocking down the door for anyone holding the Straight, White Male ID Card -- and if you can't make it, what a pathetic loser you must be!


Ugh. I read that and what pissed me off the most wasn't the idea of white privilege (which arguable hasn't existed in America for decades), it was that if your white and male and hetero and don't achieve a truckload of success, then you are the weakest and laziest of the bunch. No one else is responsible for their success or failures, but you are.
 
2012-07-23 05:22:13 PM

MyRandomName: I love this strawman liberals are setting up to defend Obama. Nobody is arguing success happens in a vacuum. The argument is what is responsible for a successful business. A lot of hard work goes into creating a business, the government does not get to say they are mostly responsible for that as Obama implies. Taking a long reading of Obama's inference, everyone would be successful merely because roads exist. That is not the case whatsoever. Individuals utilize public shares to the best of their capacity. The web we know today would not exist without capitalists improving on the darpanet infrastructure.

If Obama wants credit for all successful business, he has to take credit for business that fails as well. For every road that allowed the transport of good there is a regulation that made the market to costly for some to enter; whether it is eminent domain, costly regulations, cost of licensing (hair dressers), etc. Government can help or hinder a business. But it takes an individual to CREATE the business, not government. That is what Obama said wrong, individuals do create business.


I smell a strawman, but it's not the one you made up.
 
2012-07-23 05:22:26 PM

gerrymander: vpb: gerrymander: No dice, subby. Ever since Scalzi came out as a condescending, racist bigot, I have no interest in him, his opinions, or his fiction.

Really? What was that about?

He did a huge post a month or two ago about how being a straight, white guy is playing a videogame on "easy mode". (No. I'm not going to link it, for the same reason I don't link to Stormfront. It's on his website if you care that much.) Apparently, work is easier, cancer kills less, and leggy supermodels are always knocking down the door for anyone holding the Straight, White Male ID Card -- and if you can't make it, what a pathetic loser you must be!

It's one thing to view society through the lens of who has or doesn't have "privilege". It's not a viewpoint I agree with or find constructive, but moral codes have to start somewhere. It's another thing entirely to use that lens as an excuse to denigrate an entire segment of society based on their skin color, gender and sexual preference. And doing that to a sizable fraction of your own core audience in an appeal to that same fraction is beyond stupid.

So, yeah. I'm done, and F7U12, Scalzi. Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.


You're an idiot.
 
2012-07-23 05:22:54 PM
"Everybody has to pay taxes!"

Otherwise it's like stealing from the gummint!
 
2012-07-23 05:22:58 PM

SlothB77: Scalzi is oblivious to the fact the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently. Instead of paying high taxes now that will be redistributed by government, he could donate his money through private charities to achieve the same ends. And probably more efficiently.


The private sector did a bang up job in 1929-1933.
 
2012-07-23 05:23:34 PM

Cybernetic: what_now: Reader, I married her

I don't know who this guy is, but I just fell in love with him.

If you like sci-fi at all, read Old Man's War. In fact, even if you don't like sci-fi, read it anyway. It's an excellent book.


Not really. Sure, it starts out good, real good, and is a fun read mostly, but the last half is pure, untempered Gary Stu dreck. I just about quit reading when I couldn't get through a page without feeling the urge to roll my eyes except that I don't like to leave a book unfinished.

/Still would like to read Redshirts. He does humor well.
 
2012-07-23 05:24:32 PM

roxtar10870: Taxes = theft... What good Might be done with the stolen money doesn't make it moral.
This guy is an idiot.

Taxes aren't theft, and if think they are you are clearly stupid.
 
2012-07-23 05:24:52 PM

jaybeezey: I couldn't help but notice that he doesn't mention how much extra he voluntarily pays in taxes each year for all of those govt services he took advantage of as a kid.


I couldn't help but notice your giant red herring. Do you guys get flashcards to help you avoid the topic when you register for NRO or something?
 
2012-07-23 05:25:57 PM

MyRandomName: I love this strawman liberals are setting up to defend Obama. Nobody is arguing success happens in a vacuum. The argument is what is responsible for a successful business. A lot of hard work goes into creating a business, the government does not get to say they are mostly responsible for that as Obama implies


So true, look at all the successful multinationals that come out of countries with no infrastructure, no court system to ensure contracts and little security. If businesses were actually built on the foundation that society provides the most powerful and profitable companies would all come out of countries with a stable governments providing robust social and security services.
 
2012-07-23 05:26:01 PM
The source article was more of an ode of thanks to all the people he owes and how he views his obligations to society and helping others through that lens. So subby is making a bit (not much, but a bit) of a leap to summarizing it as a pro-taxes article when it is so much more.

But that said - AGREED. The people who think they got where they are all by themselves are full of BS, nobody does.

And understanding that your own success is extremely dependent on the existence and assistance (direct or indirect) of others is a necessary ingredient to not being a cheap bastard about taxes or being a miserable human being.

(lived in many countries with higher taxes, had no problem paying)
 
2012-07-23 05:26:15 PM
People need to quit arguing over taxes. Taxes aren't the issue. The issue is spending - how much and on what, and even how its disbursed. Fix that and let taxes be whatever they need to be. We're overfunding the military by a lot. We're funding public education instead of funding students. We pay farmers not to farm and we pay poor people to keep them poor. I can fix all of this if elected, which will never happen, so I'm not going to waste anymore time on it. I'm going to have a beer and watch Jeopardy, which will be on locally in abuot 3 minutes. So long suckers.
 
2012-07-23 05:26:58 PM

gerrymander: He did a huge post a month or two ago about how being a straight, white guy is playing a videogame on "easy mode". (No. I'm not going to link it, for the same reason I don't link to Stormfront. It's on his website if you care that much.) Apparently, work is easier, cancer kills less, and leggy supermodels are always knocking down the door for anyone holding the Straight, White Male ID Card -- and if you can't make it, what a pathetic loser you must be!


Just to be clear: You're saying Scalzi was wrong because RICH straight white guy is an easier setting than Regular straight white guy?
 
2012-07-23 05:28:05 PM

roxtar10870: Taxes = theft... What good Might be done with the stolen money doesn't make it moral.
This guy is an idiot.


So, the government doesn't have the right to dispose goods as it sees fit? And isn't ownership merely an exclusive use contract you have with the government re: certain goods? If the government doesn't have the right to use "your" $20 to finance public works, why does it have a right to keep me from using your beach house?
I would posit that if taxes are theft, then property is theft.
Welcome comrade, always glad to see another commie on fark!
 
2012-07-23 05:28:28 PM
"Price of bread may worry some, but it don't worry me.
Tax relief may never come, but it don't worry me.
Economy's depressed, not me.
My spirit's high as it can be.
And you may say that I ain't free,
But it don't worry me ..."

\Obscure?
 
2012-07-23 05:28:35 PM
The government runs inefficiently and wastes a certain percentage of money because of that.

If the government was better at it's job, it could do it with X% of it's current budget.

Our taxes are 100-X% too high.

Revalidated.
 
2012-07-23 05:29:07 PM
Government is 100% responsible for the creation of wealth. Just look at Solyndra!
 
2012-07-23 05:29:11 PM

SlothB77: the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently.


Guess how we know you're a farking retard?
 
2012-07-23 05:29:32 PM

gerrymander: No dice, subby. Ever since I projected my own racism and bigotry onto Scalzi because I'm unwilling to admit that "white privilege" is real and that would make me feel bad about myself, Scalzi came out as a condescending, racist bigot, I have no interest in him, his opinions, or his fiction.


FTFY


Magnanimous_J: I read that and what pissed me off the most wasn't the idea of white privilege (which arguable hasn't existed in America for decades)


You're funny.
 
2012-07-23 05:30:09 PM
Hey John? If you're reading this thread, you can also thank my friend TB for telling me to read "Old Man's War."

I already thanked him, and picked up the next 2 as well.
 
2012-07-23 05:30:18 PM

MyRandomName: I love this strawman liberals are setting up to defend Obama. Nobody is arguing success happens in a vacuum. The argument is what is responsible for a successful business. A lot of hard work goes into creating a business, the government does not get to say they are mostly responsible for that as Obama implies. Taking a long reading of Obama's inference, everyone would be successful merely because roads exist. That is not the case whatsoever. Individuals utilize public shares to the best of their capacity. The web we know today would not exist without capitalists improving on the darpanet infrastructure.

If Obama wants credit for all successful business, he has to take credit for business that fails as well. For every road that allowed the transport of good there is a regulation that made the market to costly for some to enter; whether it is eminent domain, costly regulations, cost of licensing (hair dressers), etc. Government can help or hinder a business. But it takes an individual to CREATE the business, not government. That is what Obama said wrong, individuals do create business.


Are you that stupid, opr just playing it on Fark?
Obama is hired help, in office, not power.
Like all of your precious "conservative" and "Republican" phonies.

If you believe the sound of your own wheels, you are divided and conquered and a waste of humanity.
 
2012-07-23 05:30:50 PM

Teufelaffe: Cybernetic: what_now: Reader, I married her

I don't know who this guy is, but I just fell in love with him.

If you like sci-fi at all, read Old Man's War. In fact, even if you don't like sci-fi, read it anyway. It's an excellent book.

Seconded and thirded.


Came here to ask about it.

Added to the book list.
 
2012-07-23 05:31:01 PM
To paraphrase Louis CK, if you can't admit that being a white man is awesome you are an asshole.
 
2012-07-23 05:31:13 PM

serial_crusher: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Smeggy Smurf: Any tax system that can afford to have people on welfare packing phones that cost more than my last car has taxes that are too high

My iPhone 3 was $0.99 since I signed up for a 2 year service plan so I'm not sure what your point is. Are you complaining that people on welfare can afford a phone?

How much does that service plan cost relative to one on a more modest phone that doesn't include any data usage?


The data component of the plan is something ridiculously cheap like $10 per month. On the whole, it's only slightly more expensive than a land line. Would you like to try moving the goalposts again?
 
2012-07-23 05:31:48 PM

SlothB77: Scalzi is oblivious to the fact the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently. Instead of paying high taxes now that will be redistributed by government, he could donate his money through private charities to achieve the same ends. And probably more efficiently.


Non-profit =! Private Sector, but who cares.? You're probably trolling anyway.
 
2012-07-23 05:32:23 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: jaybeezey: I couldn't help but notice that he doesn't mention how much extra he voluntarily pays in taxes each year for all of those govt services he took advantage of as a kid.

I couldn't help but notice your giant red herring. Do you guys get flashcards to help you avoid the topic when you register for NRO or something?


I laughed and laughed. Well played. Your new farkie is "I couldn't help but notice your giant red herring". What's your favorite color?
 
2012-07-23 05:32:43 PM
I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.
 
2012-07-23 05:32:47 PM

Philimus: "Price of bread may worry some, but it don't worry me.
Tax relief may never come, but it don't worry me.
Economy's depressed, not me.
My spirit's high as it can be.
And you may say that I ain't free,
But it don't worry me ..."

\Obscure?


i knew this rocketman once, sounded like that.
 
2012-07-23 05:33:25 PM

SlothB77: Scalzi is oblivious to the fact the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently.


And you are oblivious to the difference between the words "fact" and "unsubstantiated assertion".
 
2012-07-23 05:33:48 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.


Nonsense, just lucky.
Be patient, it can change.
 
2012-07-23 05:33:58 PM

gerrymander: vpb: gerrymander: No dice, subby. Ever since Scalzi came out as a condescending, racist bigot, I have no interest in him, his opinions, or his fiction.

Really? What was that about?

He did a huge post a month or two ago about how being a straight, white guy is playing a videogame on "easy mode". (No. I'm not going to link it, for the same reason I don't link to Stormfront. It's on his website if you care that much.) Apparently, work is easier, cancer kills less, and leggy supermodels are always knocking down the door for anyone holding the Straight, White Male ID Card -- and if you can't make it, what a pathetic loser you must be!

It's one thing to view society through the lens of who has or doesn't have "privilege". It's not a viewpoint I agree with or find constructive, but moral codes have to start somewhere. It's another thing entirely to use that lens as an excuse to denigrate an entire segment of society based on their skin color, gender and sexual preference. And doing that to a sizable fraction of your own core audience in an appeal to that same fraction is beyond stupid.

So, yeah. I'm done, and F7U12, Scalzi. Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.


So being honest, and objective to a fault, regarding Your experience of reality is wrong, or bad? Especially when You are intent on changing the status quo to better reflect the vision You have of what is right?

I guess all of the taxes I, and the rest of our fellow citizens happily paid for Your education was not enough to increase Your comprehention of what he really wrote. I suppose it's ok, if only because You weren't the only one to fail in understanding the intent of Scalzi's comments.

No, being Shortsighted is Not acceptable. I'm not perfect, neither are You, and we both know that Scalzi is not, but I think he's Honest about what he sees as reality, I know I am.

/not libtard, also not ultraconservadumb
//just another Adult US American
 
2012-07-23 05:34:00 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: The government runs inefficiently and wastes a certain percentage of money because of that.

If the government was better at it's job, it could do it with X% of it's current budget.

Our taxes are 100-X% too high.

Revalidated.


Its...

/embarassed.
 
2012-07-23 05:34:40 PM

dugitman: The confusion people have with this headline and TFA is weird.


It's like a cataclysmic explosion of Poe's Law.
 
2012-07-23 05:34:47 PM

QDW: SlothB77: Scalzi is oblivious to the fact the private sector can do all of the things the public sector can do - and more efficiently. Instead of paying high taxes now that will be redistributed by government, he could donate his money through private charities to achieve the same ends. And probably more efficiently.

That's dumb.Just saying something is a fact doesn't make it so. Even trivial analysis shows this is not just silly but frankly delusional.

Freeways, CDC, FAA, the criminal justice system, fire departments, even... dare I say it... the military are not things that can be privately funded. Geez....

/Forehead sore from the enormous slap I just gave it.



Ahem...you must not be aware of the private companies that provide firefighting coverage. Rural Metro would be an example...they're a pretty big deal.
 
2012-07-23 05:35:06 PM
images.sodahead.com
 
2012-07-23 05:35:22 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: THAT is what "white privelage" means.


That's wealth privilege.
 
2012-07-23 05:36:06 PM

keypusher: Anyone who thinks Prop. 13 is responsible for California's education problems is regurgitating someone else's talking points and has no actual knowledge of the topic.

Prop. 98


Are you arguing that Prop. 98 cancels out the loss of funding resulting from Prop. 13?
 
2012-07-23 05:36:17 PM

beta_plus: Government is 100% responsible for the creation of wealth. Just look at Solyndra!


Seriously weak diversionary tactic is seriously weak.
 
2012-07-23 05:36:29 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.


Bullshiat! I have exprienced almost every item on your list.
 
KIA
2012-07-23 05:36:59 PM
Being poor sucks no matter what color you are. I'm glad Mr. S. was able to attend a private school, have enough to eat and squeak into the University of Chicago. He does have prodigious talent and I don't begrudge him anything. In fact, I'm a big fan.

The problem with high taxes arises when they createmay a barrier of entry for the middle class and a ceiling on middle-class wage earners.
 
2012-07-23 05:37:14 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: I am a white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, gainfully employed, male citizen of the United States.
I do not know what it's like to be oppressed.
I do not know what it's like to be persecuted.
I do not know what it's like to be in fear for my life.
I do not know what it's like to have to fight for my rights.
I do not know what it's like to struggle for recognition.
I do not know what it's like to go without food or shelter.

THAT is what "white privelage" means.


What if you're a white, heterosexual, gainfully employed male who knows all of those things are like firsthand? Does my anecdote beat yours? Do we flip a coin? Or can we say that there is a social construct wherein people believe that white, heterosexual males are privileged, much the same that people believe that women are paid 78 cents on the dollar, and if you're African American you're more likely to end up in jail?

Stereotypes are fun when we apply them to people that deserve it right?
 
2012-07-23 05:37:36 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: serial_crusher: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Smeggy Smurf: Any tax system that can afford to have people on welfare packing phones that cost more than my last car has taxes that are too high

My iPhone 3 was $0.99 since I signed up for a 2 year service plan so I'm not sure what your point is. Are you complaining that people on welfare can afford a phone?

How much does that service plan cost relative to one on a more modest phone that doesn't include any data usage?

The data component of the plan is something ridiculously cheap like $10 per month. On the whole, it's only slightly more expensive than a land line. Would you like to try moving the goalposts again?


So, $240 more over the life of your contract? Depends on how cheap of a car Smeggy Smurf drives, I guess. Either way, pointing out that you ignored one of the largest costs of your phone because of a shiny sticker price, doesn't constitute moving goalposts

You're also assuming that the theoretical welfare recipient in his example is still using a 3 year old phone like you are. I think Smeggy was accusing them of having shiny new phones, not obsolete crap.
 
2012-07-23 05:38:32 PM

Villemus Fortis: [images.sodahead.com image 500x416]


Conservative Logic: Humans have the same cognitive capabilities as all other animals.

/Yes, they're that stupid.
 
2012-07-23 05:38:47 PM
Who remembers that many teachers?

/barely got past the "my mom made me with her vagina" intro
 
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