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(ESPN)   Penn State gets Sandusky'd   ( espn.go.com) divider line
    More: News, Penn State, Sandusky'd, Mark Emmert, President Ma, College Coach, Beaver Stadium, defensive coordinator, Joe Schad  
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16211 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 9:44 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 12:28:55 PM  

RickyWilliams'sBong: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

Why? Bowden lost 12 wins due to a cheating scandal by a few players that the NCAA admits he knew nothing about.

But JoePa shouldn't lose anything for covering up for a pedophile for 14 years to protect his program's image and his own job?

Don't think so.

Plus, JoePa didn't do any actual coaching for most of that time. Bowden, terrible though he was, was at least running the show through 2009. Paterno never deserved the record anyway.


They SHOULD resuscitate Zombie JoePa, then re-kill him by RPG-firing squad.
 
2012-07-23 12:29:35 PM  

I_C_Weener: You mean Notre Dame? What scandal of coaches pumping little kids did it have?


You think Rudy was tough when he got there? Nope, the "practice squad" made him tough!!!!
 
2012-07-23 12:29:40 PM  

trappedspirit: You might be saying something NOW, and it's been going on for years.


That's actually a really big elephant in the room.
 
2012-07-23 12:30:01 PM  

srhp29: It seems some folks think that if you abandon wins it matters to anything at all. It doesn't. It doesn't even give the team you abandoned the win against a win. They still have a loss.

That was an excellent add on that really affects nothing other than Joe Paterno's career wins. What number is he on the winninest coaches list now?


Someone told me 12th but I didn't look it up myself so take that for what it is.

Normally, I think vacating wins is a stupid, pointless punishment (see USC) but in this case it is really effective. Sure people now remember Joe Pa won a lot of football, but in 20 years ask young football fans and they won't have a clue. The winningest coach is someone everyone remembers, the 12th on that list is barely a blip on the radar unless Penn St. is your favorite team and you know the history
 
2012-07-23 12:31:30 PM  

I_C_Weener: You mean Notre Dame? What scandal of coaches pumping little kids did it have?


Oh, they just kill interns in order to get tape of practice at Notre Dame. Nothing wrong with that.
 
2012-07-23 12:31:45 PM  

ModernPrimitive01: The winningest coach is someone everyone remembers, the 12th on that list is barely a blip on the radar unless Penn St. is your favorite team and you know the history


Plus, even then it's a story that can't be told without mentioning child rape.
 
2012-07-23 12:33:21 PM  
Burn, Penn State. BURN.

Fark you and your horrific jock culture, your completely and total moral bankruptcy, and lastly - fark each and every last Penn State student who doesn't think Joe Pa is just as much to blame. You are all enablers.
 
2012-07-23 12:33:22 PM  

TheManofPA: 4 years losing 10 scholarships (overall, that's just 1 year more than the Reggie Bush thing)


this really does bug me. why not lose 24 or 25 for 4 or 5 years. if you're going to set max, make it the max. then again, maybe that's the situation we're in, is college football more important than kiddy rape, so we just can't stop the machine?
 
2012-07-23 12:33:25 PM  

WhyteRaven74: TheManofPA: As it stands though, the 14 year coverup is considered 2 years and 10 scholarships worse than the Reggie Bush thing. As I said last thread, Miami has to be very happy.

Penn State did the one thing the NCAA couldn't do, trash its own name. That wrecks recruiting. Basically the NCAA is saying "Fine, you want football, you get football, but it's going to suck". Which in a way is more punishment for Penn State and especially those frothing at the mouth about how they shouldn't be touched than banning the program for a couple years. When the boosters see that some kid that previously would have thought about Penn State now won't even think of it, it's going to set in that no amount of grandstanding can fix things and that it wasn't the NCAA, it wasn't the media or anyone else but those involved who hurt their program.


That might be the thing that keeps them down (other than JoePa dying) more than the NCAA punishment. I mean USC got about 2/3rds of this punishment and they are going to be preseason number 1 during their final year of scholarship losses so it can't be that bad. The next two years are going to be rough, but the last two, they'll start getting recruits if people rally around the school. Some Central PA kids are really going to like being sold on become PSU's version of Kentucky's Unforgettables.

I'm glad that they are allowing players that want to go, the free transfer option and that those who wish to stay keep their scholarship no matter what. That was crucial.
 
2012-07-23 12:33:39 PM  

consider this: Millennium: Slap on the wrist. If you really want something like this to change, you have to break the continuity of the thing which powers it -in this case, football- and this punishment utterly fails to do that.

Football has nothing to do with it, the problem was caused by a few people and they're being dealt with.


Football had everything to do with it, from the motive for hiding Sandusky to the power dynamics that made it possible to do so, all the way up to the society that badgered and victim-blamed those who came forward to the point of forcing some of them into witness protection. All of it -every last scrap- because football.

I swear, some of you must be butthurt nerds that got picked on in college by football players.

I can't speak for everyone here, but the schools I went to didn't even have football programs, nor was I picked on in college.
 
2012-07-23 12:33:47 PM  

TheManofPA: Oh I was traveling, was Mark Millen smart this time and stayed off TV?

Also, was it kind of sad how Holtz already spun the whole thing about how PSU could keep itself relevant and barely feel any punishment?


Matt Millen, the Scourge of Lions everywhere.

/Go Lions! DETROIT LIONS, not Nittany Lions.
//Fark You Millen!!
//sorry, obligatory whenever the name "Millen" is mentioned in regards to American football.
 
2012-07-23 12:34:16 PM  

treesloth: Just out of curiosity, did you intend that as a comment on the Catholic Church coverup?


I'm appalled at both, Any organization who thinks that a child rape should be `handled internally' needs some serious overhauls to say the least.
 
2012-07-23 12:35:23 PM  

Mercutio74: Elegy: I know right? They went all "blowing a child isn't as bad as doing a child in the butt" over there.

The most disturbing aspect of that... I get the logic and agree. I'm still saying in this thread though.


Yeesh. Glad I stayed out of that thread. Yeah, blowing a child isn't as bad as farking him in the ass, and farking him in the ass isn't as bad as tearing out his eyeball and skull-farking him. How is that cromulent to anything? How did the subject even get brought up? Don't answer, I don't want to know.
 
2012-07-23 12:36:07 PM  
FYI for you West Coast farkers, Vegas had the PSU line at 6 1/2 wins when I was there. Anyone want to bet big, make it known, and then donate half to the victims fund
 
2012-07-23 12:36:20 PM  

Techhell: TheManofPA: Oh I was traveling, was Mark Millen smart this time and stayed off TV?

Also, was it kind of sad how Holtz already spun the whole thing about how PSU could keep itself relevant and barely feel any punishment?

Matt Millen, the Scourge of Lions everywhere.

/Go Lions! DETROIT LIONS, not Nittany Lions.
//Fark You Millen!!
//sorry, obligatory whenever the name "Millen" is mentioned in regards to American football.


You don't have to apologize or explain yourself for that. No matter how irrational any farker is in this thread we completely understand.
 
2012-07-23 12:36:32 PM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Screw vacating wins. If the NCAA wants to hurt a team, they need to go back to TV bans. No appearances, no TV money from your conference.


If you want to kill a school's football program, this is a fantastic way to do it.
 
2012-07-23 12:36:57 PM  
Okay. I know I said in a previous thread that if Penn State didn't get the "death penalty", I would be done with college football. Even though that is not what the NCAA did, I do like the decision to strip them of all their wins from 1998 to today, and give the players the chance to transfer to any school that will take them.

Penn State football was not killed; it was just beaten to near-death with a crowbar, had its fingers cut off with a cigar cutter, and left in a ditch by the side of the road.

And I'm okay with that.
 
2012-07-23 12:38:15 PM  
I didn't even get through a quarter of the thread and already had seen "This hurts the players more than the people responsible!! WAHH", so I just skipped down here to say...


How stupid are you? Do you not read articles all the way through? All players that wish to, will be able to instantly transfer to another school without penalty, and will be eligible to play next season.
 
2012-07-23 12:38:45 PM  

TheManofPA: FYI for you West Coast farkers, Vegas had the PSU line at 6 1/2 wins when I was there. Anyone want to bet big, make it known, and then donate half to the victims fund


I've got em for 4 wins.
 
2012-07-23 12:38:57 PM  

Techhell: TheManofPA: Oh I was traveling, was Mark Millen smart this time and stayed off TV?

Also, was it kind of sad how Holtz already spun the whole thing about how PSU could keep itself relevant and barely feel any punishment?

Matt Millen, the Scourge of Lions everywhere.

/Go Lions! DETROIT LIONS, not Nittany Lions.
//Fark You Millen!!
//sorry, obligatory whenever the name "Millen" is mentioned in regards to American football.


You know, that's I think the second or third time I've F'ed up and wrote Mark and the other time I definitely remember, someone (not you) wrote SCREW YOU MILLEN /lions fan

Just thought I'd let you know that your post is awesome because of it
 
2012-07-23 12:39:06 PM  

TheManofPA: I mean USC got about 2/3rds of this punishment and they are going to be preseason number 1 during their final year of scholarship losses so it can't be that bad.


Keep in mind USC didn't trash it's name, they had an issue with a player. Penn State has utterly trashed their own name. That is a very different situation.
 
2012-07-23 12:39:11 PM  

TheManofPA: I'm glad that they are allowing players that want to go, the free transfer option and that those who wish to stay keep their scholarship no matter what. That was crucial.


it's really the only thing they did right...i really hope the players phones are blowing up with offers to transfer to a school not forever known for institutional enabling of kiddy rape.

/the ncaa probably prohibited contact with pedo state players because that's just how they roll...
 
2012-07-23 12:39:37 PM  
Woah, did anyone see the part where any other school accepting players transferring from Penn State gets an extra spot on their roster and an extra scholarship for that transferring player - so that they don't have to bump anyone off their team?

The NCAA is giving every other shcool an incentive and the capability to go raid PSU's football program. PSU won't even have a team this year.
 
2012-07-23 12:39:54 PM  

dj_spanmaster: I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Screw vacating wins. If the NCAA wants to hurt a team, they need to go back to TV bans. No appearances, no TV money from your conference.

If you want to kill a school's football program, this is a fantastic way to do it.


Not really. You're just pretending they don't exist with a TV ban, and you'd be hurting whatever team they happen to be playing that week by preventing their fans from watching.
 
2012-07-23 12:40:19 PM  

Captain Steroid: Okay. I know I said in a previous thread that if Penn State didn't get the "death penalty", I would be done with college football. Even though that is not what the NCAA did, I do like the decision to strip them of all their wins from 1998 to today, and give the players the chance to transfer to any school that will take them.

Penn State football was not killed; it was just beaten to near-death with a crowbar, had its fingers cut off with a cigar cutter, and left in a ditch by the side of the road.

And I'm okay with that.


I do believe I'm allowed to rib you during the 1000th Raw thread for immediately hotshotting your face/heel turn with regard to college football.
 
2012-07-23 12:40:23 PM  
So are they rioting in State College yet?
 
2012-07-23 12:40:50 PM  

nekom: treesloth: Just out of curiosity, did you intend that as a comment on the Catholic Church coverup?

I'm appalled at both, Any organization who thinks that a child rape should be `handled internally' needs some serious overhauls to say the least.


Ah, OK. I thought that perhaps it was a particularly subtle, and well-deserved, dig at the Catholic Church leadership. The name "pontiff" means, in effect, "bridge builder".
 
2012-07-23 12:40:52 PM  

Saza: Woah, did anyone see the part where any other school accepting players transferring from Penn State gets an extra spot on their roster and an extra scholarship for that transferring player - so that they don't have to bump anyone off their team?


Where'd you see that?
 
2012-07-23 12:41:01 PM  
So LSU just won the 2010 Capital One Bowl. Geaux Tigers!!
 
2012-07-23 12:41:32 PM  

Saza: Woah, did anyone see the part where any other school accepting players transferring from Penn State gets an extra spot on their roster and an extra scholarship for that transferring player - so that they don't have to bump anyone off their team?

The NCAA is giving every other shcool an incentive and the capability to go raid PSU's football program. PSU won't even have a team this year.


Where did you see that? ESPN hasn't brought it up. Has anyone seen Saban or Meyer all day?
 
2012-07-23 12:41:34 PM  

IAmRight: Marine1: Understood, but still, do you really think that he did nothing?

I doubt he contributed to any successes of the team over that decade (though there weren't all THAT many). But that's just based on other football programs I've been around - most coaches tend to feel as though they know what they're doing and they're going to do things their way. I'm willing to change my opinion if there's evidence showing he was a significant part of the team, but according to most, after retiring he spent more time focusing on Second Mile (which, given the nature of Second Mile...sh*t, maybe they should've kept him working on football if they weren't going to turn him in. At least make him focus on something besides preteen boys).


Paterno probably didn't ask him for help. Now, whoever replaced him... I'd be surprised if he never went to Sandusky for advice.
 
2012-07-23 12:42:03 PM  

Millennium: consider this: Millennium: Slap on the wrist. If you really want something like this to change, you have to break the continuity of the thing which powers it -in this case, football- and this punishment utterly fails to do that.

Football has nothing to do with it, the problem was caused by a few people and they're being dealt with.

Football had everything to do with it, from the motive for hiding Sandusky to the power dynamics that made it possible to do so, all the way up to the society that badgered and victim-blamed those who came forward to the point of forcing some of them into witness protection. All of it -every last scrap- because football.

I swear, some of you must be butthurt nerds that got picked on in college by football players.

I can't speak for everyone here, but the schools I went to didn't even have football programs, nor was I picked on in college.


Those in power at the time chose to put football over doing the right thing. New leadership won't repeat that mistake. Football was not responsible for this, a warped sense of what's important was.
 
2012-07-23 12:42:06 PM  

T-Boy: So LSU just won the 2010 Capital One Bowl. Geaux Tigers!!


No they didn't, the game never happened. Vacated wins don't go to the other team.
 
2012-07-23 12:44:13 PM  

bdub77: OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.



I know this is Fark, but......WTF is wrong with you?
 
2012-07-23 12:44:14 PM  

IAmRight: T-Boy: So LSU just won the 2010 Capital One Bowl. Geaux Tigers!!

No they didn't, the game never happened. Vacated wins don't go to the other team.


Ha ha! They lost to a bunch of nobodies!
 
2012-07-23 12:44:27 PM  

IAmRight: T-Boy: So LSU just won the 2010 Capital One Bowl. Geaux Tigers!!

No they didn't, the game never happened. Vacated wins don't go to the other team.


Such a friggin buzzkill. Don't you ever break character?
 
2012-07-23 12:44:33 PM  

Saza: Woah, did anyone see the part where any other school accepting players transferring from Penn State gets an extra spot on their roster and an extra scholarship for that transferring player - so that they don't have to bump anyone off their team?

The NCAA is giving every other school an incentive and the capability to go raid PSU's football program. PSU won't even have a team this year.


i hadn't seen that. got a source? god, i hope it's true.
 
2012-07-23 12:45:06 PM  
Kirk Herbstreit on ESPN was saying a few minutes ago that it'll be at least a decade before Penn State is competitive again at any level.
 
2012-07-23 12:45:41 PM  

treesloth: Ah, OK. I thought that perhaps it was a particularly subtle, and well-deserved, dig at the Catholic Church leadership. The name "pontiff" means, in effect, "bridge builder".


That never occurred to me, but it's true in their case as well. It's also true in both cases that covering things up in an attempt to make them go away turns out a lot worse when they finally do come to light. Plenty of parallels really.
 
2012-07-23 12:46:46 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Kirk Herbstreit on ESPN was saying a few minutes ago that it'll be at least a decade before Penn State is competitive again at any level.


shiat, that means they be playing for the national championship in five. kirk's never right...

/ok, i'm just being mean now...
 
2012-07-23 12:46:47 PM  

RickyWilliams'sBong: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

Why? Bowden lost 12 wins due to a cheating scandal by a few players that the NCAA admits he knew nothing about.

But JoePa shouldn't lose anything for covering up for a pedophile for 14 years to protect his program's image and his own job?

Don't think so.

Plus, JoePa didn't do any actual coaching for most of that time. Bowden, terrible though he was, was at least running the show through 2009. Paterno never deserved the record anyway.


Paterno can't lose anything - he's dead.

Setting aside the 'actual coaching' argument (yes - Paterno was like 'chairman of the board' rather than CEO) the problem with vacating the wins is that it's the only sanction that looks to the past rather than the future. Like we're going to just pretend the guy wasn't there.

OJ was the first guy to rush for 2,000 yards - wipe it off the record books, everyone still knows it's the case. Does his double homicide (and other crimes) overshadow his record? Of course - but it still happened. Dude is still in the hall of fame.

/no problem with the future-oriented penalties - although some due process and precedent concerns
 
2012-07-23 12:46:54 PM  
60 million bucks? Now where are they going to get the money to build new showers?
 
2012-07-23 12:48:00 PM  

T-Boy: Such a friggin buzzkill. Don't you ever break character?


LSU fans have had enough happy happys over the last decade. You'll be fine.
 
2012-07-23 12:49:18 PM  
i63.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2012-07-23 12:50:18 PM  

A Fark Handle: kirk's never right...


*snort*
 
2012-07-23 12:50:19 PM  
Punish the guilty, hard.

Collective punishment is for the lazy and unintelligent. It's even prohibited by the Geneva Convention.
 
2012-07-23 12:50:32 PM  

A Fark Handle: WhyteRaven74: Kirk Herbstreit on ESPN was saying a few minutes ago that it'll be at least a decade before Penn State is competitive again at any level.

shiat, that means they be playing for the national championship in five. kirk's never right...

/ok, i'm just being mean now...


The thing is, they weren't competitive before the penalties.
 
2012-07-23 12:50:46 PM  

Vodka Zombie: dj_spanmaster: I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Screw vacating wins. If the NCAA wants to hurt a team, they need to go back to TV bans. No appearances, no TV money from your conference.

If you want to kill a school's football program, this is a fantastic way to do it.

Not really. You're just pretending they don't exist with a TV ban, and you'd be hurting whatever team they happen to be playing that week by preventing their fans from watching.


Such a flippant statement reflects broad misunderstanding of the importance of television contracts to a football-driven university such as Penn State.
 
2012-07-23 12:50:53 PM  

TheManofPA: Captain Steroid: Okay. I know I said in a previous thread that if Penn State didn't get the "death penalty", I would be done with college football. Even though that is not what the NCAA did, I do like the decision to strip them of all their wins from 1998 to today, and give the players the chance to transfer to any school that will take them.

Penn State football was not killed; it was just beaten to near-death with a crowbar, had its fingers cut off with a cigar cutter, and left in a ditch by the side of the road.

And I'm okay with that.

I do believe I'm allowed to rib you during the 1000th Raw thread for immediately hotshotting your face/heel turn with regard to college football.


Yeah, you are. -_-

\ #HEEL
 
2012-07-23 12:52:28 PM  

A Fark Handle: Saza: Woah, did anyone see the part where any other school accepting players transferring from Penn State gets an extra spot on their roster and an extra scholarship for that transferring player - so that they don't have to bump anyone off their team?

The NCAA is giving every other school an incentive and the capability to go raid PSU's football program. PSU won't even have a team this year.

i hadn't seen that. got a source? god, i hope it's true.


I saw it as well but now I can't find the article...

Yeah, it any player can transfer out without penalizing the team TAKING that player....

Yeah, NCAA might have just have burned Penn State's program to the ground.

/or the players will go all "we are" on the situation and circle the wagons.
 
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