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(ESPN)   Penn State gets Sandusky'd   (espn.go.com) divider line 1081
    More: News, Penn State, Sandusky'd, Mark Emmert, President Ma, College Coach, Beaver Stadium, defensive coordinator, Joe Schad  
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16151 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 9:44 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 10:11:43 AM  

DamnYankees: Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.


It's not the rape, it's the coverup. That happened too, you know.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:44 AM  

randomjsa: If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.


So you want to punish all those student athletes who have devoted huge parts of their life to their athletics, for doing absolutely nothing wrong?
 
2012-07-23 10:11:51 AM  

bwilson27: Wow, fooseball sure is important, huh?


The NCAA said the $60 million was equivalent to the average annual revenue of the football program.
//sounds important
 
2012-07-23 10:11:53 AM  
I think the separation of academic and criminal life is every bit as important as the separation of church and state. The muddying factor is that the criminal behaviour took place on university property. These sanctions set a very important and disturbing precedent; never previously as the NCAA punished criminal behaviour.
Had Paterno lived, he could have been tried and punished in a criminal court, with criminal sanctions. To retroactively "pretend" that games were not won (an athletic sanction) appears to be a shoddy attempt to punish someone who is now immune to criminal prosecution, and a severe overstepping of both due process and the boundaries of responsibility.
The real upshot of this disturbingly quick ruling is that the wins attributed to Paterno now belong to Sandusky, as the assumption is that the criminal behaviour (in this case, kiddy-diddling) was so crucial to the success of the team, that this criminal behaviour unfairly gave Penn State an advantage over other teams, just as improper recruiting, etc might have.
Changing track slightly, I feel equally strongly about schools adding punishments to students charged with crimes off-campus. If a conviction incurs such a loss of attendance that deferral is improbable, then I can understand that student's expulsion. Otherwise, there is already a mechanism in place to punish or reform criminal behaviour; adding extra sanctions only increases the chance of its repetition once the reparations have been carried out.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:00 AM  

Endive Wombat: stonicus: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.

So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


The way the rule works:

Any stats accumulated stand.
Any wins that Penn State achieved are marked in the record book as vacated. The team they beat is still marked as having lost the game.
Any losses that Penn State made during that time period are still considered losses.

Yes, it farks over current student-athletes. It's the way we've always handled these things: if a doctor screws up and amputates the wrong leg, the hospital gets sued and that hurts everyone there who isn't that screw-up doctor. If a police officer screws up and wrongfully kills someone, the city gets sued and that hurts everyone who isn't that screw-up police officer. If university employees systematically covers up pedophilia in order to protect the image of the university and the football team's revenue stream, the university gets hit and that hurts everyone who isn't the screw-ups who protected the pedophile.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:10 AM  

MisterLoki: Jim Delaney to announce Big 10 sanctions at 10.


Holy shiat...I hadn't even thought about the B10 dropping the hammer, too.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:35 AM  

jst3p: gimmegimme: Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?

The point is that both organizations are really front groups for child rape.

/It's a pity they don't; I love a good Hail Mary.
I didn't know that the Catholic Church had a football program governed by the NCAA.

 
2012-07-23 10:12:38 AM  

Lucubrationist: I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.


So you think that the football program should have been say...suspended for 10 years or permanently dissolved?
 
2012-07-23 10:12:48 AM  
Football is not so important that kids get butt-raped and people argue about the ramifications.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:48 AM  

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Does Grambling count? I thought those records were in a special section at the back of the record book.


Everybody just counts 3/5ths of his wins
 
2012-07-23 10:12:53 AM  

Tenga: So Bobby Bowden is now the winningest coach?


Correct. Effectively Penn State has been forced to vacate every win since 1998. That is more punishment than SMU received by far.

The worst part...three years minimum of those wins should not be vacated, since Paterno and company were assured that Sandusky wasn't a pedo by law enforcement.

If you are looking for justice, the NCAA makes a rural Georgia county look like the court of Solomon.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:01 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: stonicus: Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.

Oh god, not a distraction! That's so terrible. PSU students should be shielded from the reality that their university officials covered up child abuse at their campus for 14 years. Because they are precious little snowflakes.


Calm down... I was just answering someone else's question... shhhhh, it'll be ok... relax...
 
2012-07-23 10:13:11 AM  
I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.


It's not a slap on the wrist. It punishes those who deserve it most (the culture that covered up the crime) while allowing the students, alumni, players, and staff, who had nothing to do with the crime, to continue playing/watching/benefiting from the game.

Essentially, it's a quick reset button that protects those innocent of the crime. A death penalty would not have penalized the innocent as much as the guilty.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:12 AM  
Would be hilarious if Penn state said fark you, we're not doing any of that shiat, and permanently disbanding our football team, so lick our taint. Not that Penn State is in the right, but I hate other entities besides a court of law getting some chance to display an ability to punish and really relish in it. HOA coonts jump to mind as a good analogue.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:16 AM  
The next fun will be to see if the Department of Education has the balls to hit Penn State with huge fines for failure to report the crimes under the Clery Act.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:16 AM  

BMFPitt: As long as current players are allowed to transfer without penalty, then I have no problem with this. They should have decided this earlier, though, to give those kids time.


Don't worry, the other colleges' recruiters are already making calls.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:53 AM  

steamingpile: I love all the people screaming they should've gotten the death penalty, idiots can't grasp this is worse than the death penalty for a year. After this PSU will be lucky to be competitive in division III for the next decade.


Agreed. Whoever said above that the program avoided the quick death but has been given cancer, that about sums it up.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:54 AM  

stonicus: cameroncrazy1984: stonicus: Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.

Oh god, not a distraction! That's so terrible. PSU students should be shielded from the reality that their university officials covered up child abuse at their campus for 14 years. Because they are precious little snowflakes.

Calm down... I was just answering someone else's question... shhhhh, it'll be ok... relax...


Oh, I know. You were answering it in a completely retarded way.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:58 AM  

TheAuldTriangle: stonicus: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

That's not so much a punishment for Penn State but a deterrent to other programs and universities.

Exactly. It's a reminder that there are more important things than winning football games, like protecting the innocence of a child.


If the football programs suffer, the US might drop to #48 in math and science, instead of #47.
 
2012-07-23 10:14:10 AM  

DamnYankees: Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.


It's not unrelated at all. You can find one trillion arguments against universities that have placed football over the real purpose of academia, it's just that we're all so inured to it we barely know it's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT.

This is the NCAA trying to put a small course correction on a very large ship that veered off course a long time ago. It's just a band-aid really, but it's a step in the right direction. Hell, I was reading on the Penn State message board saying he felt he just woke up a little; he was sleeping in bed next to his lovely wife and 5-month-old daughter and he was losing sleep over the legacy of a dead man he'd never met who was known for a child's game.

Sometimes people need things like this to wake up and realize what they've built.
 
2012-07-23 10:14:28 AM  

Carousel Beast: mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.

Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno (him being dead and all), but the rest is knee-jerk reactionism designed solely for PR purposes. If they actually want to do something legitimate, announce publicly that they're going to investigate, determine who was complicit in the cover-up, and ban them from working at NCAA member institutions for life.

But no, instead completely bypass your own rules and pass down punishment that only affects people who had nothing to do with the scandal you're supposedly addressing. Farking mob mentality.


latimesblogs.latimes.com
What a mob mentality might look like.

/hotter than a burning couch at a frat party
 
2012-07-23 10:14:40 AM  
I think we all know what happens next. Everyone thinks that next year's team is going to be terrible, the worst in D1. They'll get some no-name coach, some washed-up assistant coach, a 35-year-old quarterback and a rag-tag group of players who have more character and quirks than football talent. In the end, they'll not only beat the rival in the final game of the season, but they'll win over our hearts.
 
2012-07-23 10:14:43 AM  
Hitting them in the wallet is the only thing that the NCAA thought would get their attention so the loss of bowl games and removing the legacy wins should do that pretty well.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:00 AM  

steamingpile: I love all the people screaming they should've gotten the death penalty, idiots can't grasp this is worse than the death penalty for a year. After this PSU will be lucky to be competitive in division III for the next decade.


That would probably have been true even without NCAA sanctions. Really all NCAA sanctions are at this point are the NCAA covering ITS OWN ASS so that college athletics do not turn into a complete joke. If the NCAA had done nothing, they would have appeared to everyone to be a worthless organization held aloft with slave labor.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:02 AM  

gimmegimme: The point is that both organizations are really front groups for child rape.


If that is your "point" then all I can assume you are kind of dumb. I am not defending the pedophile church but considering there is no equivalence to the NCAA relative to the Vatican it is meaningless to draw a comparison asking for "punishment". If you think you are being clever, you aren't. No one here is defending the rape church.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:12 AM  
This is all garbage.
The only people who will suffer for this are the 18-21 year old kids who had nothing to do with it. Jo Pa is dead and disgraced. Everyone else who was involved has been fired months ago.

If I were in college sports, I think this would paint the picture of the NCAA as a bunch of heavy-handed assholes who come in after the fact to preach & punish the innocent.

14 years vacated - they should quit that organization & set up a competing conference.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:15 AM  
In reality, what kind of punishment is taking away wins? Everyone knows they won them, and there would always be an asterisk saying they won (insert game here.)
 
2012-07-23 10:15:24 AM  
College also has education and academia right? Oh, what will they do?
 
2012-07-23 10:15:29 AM  
I wonder what Sandusky is thinking right now, sitting in his cell, knowing that he destroyed the program and irreparably injured so many children. He's got to be a seriously soulless piece of shiat considering to not be swinging from his shoelaces. I'd personally like to start the Kill Yourself Sandusky Campaign. Details coming later. Is it illegal for a huge group of people to cheer someone to suicide?
 
2012-07-23 10:15:39 AM  

jst3p: gimmegimme: Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?

I didn't know that the Catholic Church had a football program governed by the NCAA.


So if you don't participate in NCAA then it's OK then? That's Penn State's problem right there.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:51 AM  

DamnYankees: randomjsa: If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.

So you want to punish all those student athletes who have devoted huge parts of their life to their athletics, for doing absolutely nothing wrong?


They have the option to transfer out to any school free of punishment/penalty.

And as to your first question, it's really the only way you can punish a dead guy, tarnish his legacy.

/I'm good with all of it
 
2012-07-23 10:16:07 AM  

Endive Wombat: Lucubrationist: I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.

So you think that the football program should have been say...suspended for 10 years or permanently dissolved?


The analysts covering this event claim that this is going to make the team non-competitive for at least 10 years. Why not pull the plug for 5 years? I understand that ALL other sports at nearly every college are dependent upon the revenues from football, but I think the administration needs to be held accountable and penalized for thier inaction.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:16 AM  

TheAuldTriangle: stonicus: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

That's not so much a punishment for Penn State but a deterrent to other programs and universities.

Exactly. It's a reminder that there are more important things than winning football games, like protecting the innocence of a child.


and the fact that a school like PSU needed such a reminder is, in my opinion, reason enough to suspend football entirely for at least a year in addition to the punishments they handed out.

Don't punish the students who had nothing to do with it? They should have thought of that before they covered up almost 40 years of child rape. It's not the NCAA, it's Sandusky, Joe Paterno and everybody that knew something about this, could have done something about this but for some reason that boggles the farking mind didn't.

they got off light in my opinion.
don't agree? what does it take to suspend a football team? Covering up the rape of 20 kids doesn't do it? what does then? linking them to 9-11?

they suspended the Duke LAX season and those guys weren't even on trial yet, not to mention innocent.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:20 AM  

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


It's not if you aren't settling bar bets.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:23 AM  

Carousel Beast: Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno


How about just listing the "head coach" position for those years as "vacant" -- in effect retroactively disqualifying Paterno from the position? That would have the desired effect without collateral damage, and isn't any further from reality than pretending the outcome of games years ago was different.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:23 AM  
So will Beaver Stadium allow people to cosplay as Pedobear or Catholic priests at their games?
 
2012-07-23 10:16:26 AM  
Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?
 
2012-07-23 10:16:36 AM  

jst3p: gimmegimme: The point is that both organizations are really front groups for child rape.

If that is your "point" then all I can assume you are kind of dumb. I am not defending the pedophile church but considering there is no equivalence to the NCAA relative to the Vatican it is meaningless to draw a comparison asking for "punishment". If you think you are being clever, you aren't. No one here is defending the rape church.


Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today!
 
2012-07-23 10:16:44 AM  
/hears drums in Tallahassee

//does the Seminole "chop"
 
2012-07-23 10:17:03 AM  
Well, I guess this means Sandusky gets his wish: now the PSU football team will be made up of a lot of really small guys.
 
2012-07-23 10:17:05 AM  
Vacating wins has to be the dumbest punishment ever conceived. Everyone knows they actually won those games, and they already spent the money generated from ticket sales on account of having a winning football team. All they are doing is crossing out some lines on a paper.
 
2012-07-23 10:17:24 AM  

Baz the Spaz: The next fun will be to see if the Department of Education has the balls to hit Penn State with huge fines for failure to report the crimes under the Clery Act.


That will happen right after the Justice Department hits the Catholic Church[tm] with the RICO Act.
 
2012-07-23 10:17:37 AM  

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened

Yep. and Paterno is now no longer the "winningest" coach.

- Destroy an entire university
Only for people like you who think that th University is only a football program

- Take away scholarships from people that need them
Nope... those people can and will still get scholarships at other schools

- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers
Again, only if you believe that the best of the student body are the athletes, instead of the scholars who are there to actually learn

Yup, that's justice.
Yup
 
2012-07-23 10:18:00 AM  

basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?


The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.
 
2012-07-23 10:18:17 AM  

Mixolydian Master: Would be hilarious if Penn state said fark you, we're not doing any of that shiat, and permanently disbanding our football team, so lick our taint


Well they are getting a reputation for those sort of demands...
 
2012-07-23 10:18:31 AM  
Meh. Sound and fury signifying nothing. We're so mad at you that we're going to hurt every player from the last decade + even though they weren't the ones raping kids. There, aren't you students so sorry that you probably didn't know and could never have helped those children! It's like your mother beating your brother when your father is caught screwing around. Just kick them out of the league for bad sportsmanship or something instead. That would show a no-tolerance sort of attitude. Horses, barn door and all.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:02 AM  

bulldg4life: basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?

The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.


But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:09 AM  

Lucubrationist: The analysts covering this event claim that this is going to make the team non-competitive for at least 10 years. Why not pull the plug for 5 years? I understand that ALL other sports at nearly every college are dependent upon the revenues from football, but I think the administration needs to be held accountable and penalized for thier inaction.


Wow, so 10 years before they can even begin to start REALLY winning back sponsors and attracting super coaches and players? Shiat.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:30 AM  
Ok, did I miss something. So everyone knows about the shower incident where Paterno did report it to his superior. So what more did her cover up? Is there something that the public doesn't know about?

/not a PSU fan.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:46 AM  

Tommy Moo: Vacating wins has to be the dumbest punishment ever conceived.


It ruins JoePa's record. While that seems trifling now that he is dead, he was all about his legacy.
 
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