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(ESPN)   Penn State gets Sandusky'd   (espn.go.com ) divider line
    More: News, Penn State, Sandusky'd, Mark Emmert, President Ma, College Coach, Beaver Stadium, defensive coordinator, Joe Schad  
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16198 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 9:44 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 09:54:06 AM  

Vodka Zombie: TanSau: Dear Penn:

HA ha!!!

Penn was sanctioned too?


Teller narc'ed. Turns out he really did have a lot to say.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:21 AM  
Now it's time for the Big 10 to kick them out.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:30 AM  
a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998

The postseason ban limits their revenue from the bowls (big $$), and might reduce its attractiveness to high school players who want media exposure for the draft.

Vacating wins reduces Paterno's total wins, and drops him from being the coach with the most wins in college football.


I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


I disagree. One of the likely motivations for the coverup was to prevent distractions to the program and maintain the "aura" of PSU as a place that "does things right". Both allowed them to focus on games and get good recruits, when they should have been dealing with a child rapist. They fundamentally prioritized winning at all costs, and a number of children were hurt in the process. That is inexcusable, and the NCAA absolutely did the right thing.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:31 AM  
Holw long were you keeping that headline a secret, subby?
 
2012-07-23 09:54:40 AM  

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Postseason play, for a team that regularly makes bowls above the "Chick-Fil-A" Bowl, is a great source of ticket and ad revenue.

Purdue wouldn't feel it (sob), but Penn State would.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:44 AM  

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


<thatsracist.gif> ?
 
2012-07-23 09:54:49 AM  
From a redlit thread yesterday, some real meat for the "Joe Pa's image is still real to me" crowd - try this:

1) Offer all students and faculty transfers to other schools, with all costs covered by whatever PSU has in assets.

2) Raze the entire campus.

3) Salt the earth the campus once stood upon.

4) Put Joe Paterno's statue in the middle of this field of woe and let it stand there as a reminder to all other organizations of what will happen if a child rapist is allowed to operate under official protection.

/there you go psu apologists - enjoy your shiny over-the-top suggestion to lambaste
//you don't want to know what I'd do to Vatican City in my imagination
 
2012-07-23 09:54:50 AM  

ScouserDuck: and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.


..no, it knocks the child molester sympathizer Paterno off his perch as the winningest coach.

/but that punishes the students and players right?
 
2012-07-23 09:54:54 AM  

Nabb1: As far as the record books are concerned, 13 years of Joe Paterno victories have been knocked off, which drops Paterno way down that list. To the Cult of JoePa, this is pretty devastating.


iamokwiththis.jpg
 
2012-07-23 09:54:55 AM  
I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.
 
2012-07-23 09:55:07 AM  

lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.


Because f*ck you, troll.
 
2012-07-23 09:55:08 AM  
I don't understand eliminating scholarships. Why punish the students for their coaches' farkups?
 
2012-07-23 09:55:24 AM  
Do I need to grab my stuff from the other thread and move in here?
 
2012-07-23 09:55:32 AM  
I was partial to banning the football program for a few years. But this is also good.

This is what you get when you protect a molester in order to prevent bad press.
 
2012-07-23 09:55:39 AM  

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Because all that matters to the Paterno Paladins is FOOTBALL.

Paterno was directly involved in covering this up to protect his legacy...so taking away a bit part of the legacy (most Div 1 wins) is appropriate.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:13 AM  

Endive Wombat: So Penn State has retroactively "lost" all previously won games, which does what?


I think this guy can explain retroactive changes to the past
www.biography.com
 
2012-07-23 09:56:16 AM  
sportretort.files.wordpress.com
Hey Joe---------I win

www.celebs101.com
 
2012-07-23 09:56:21 AM  

maxximillian: LeafyGreens: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

That's the first thing I thought to -- guess so?

Go Noles!


I actually came to dislike Bobby Bowden - the way he left was completely selfish and I think he should've resigned in 2006 (the year I watched us lose to Wake Forest 30-0 in a steady downpour).

However, I always thought it was ridiculous that he had twelve wins vacated for a cheating "scandal" that the NCAA admitted no one in the Florida State administration even knew about.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:21 AM  

tailormadebassist: Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..

When I heard about it I thought the same thing. It's a slap on the wrist to Penn State but a blow to the students. The coach didn't win those games, the kids on the field did. This is hurting the students more than it's hurting the college. Plus, I feel bad for the senior football players who were working hard to try and get to those bowl games. More sanctions on the people involved and not the innocent students.


It's a knee-jerk appeal to emotion with no interest whatsoever in actually punishing the guilty. It even says so in the FA:

The NCAA took unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing, bypassing a system in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.

Gee, just like the due process and system bypass that led to 14 years of cover-up. Way to punish those responsible, NCAA!
 
2012-07-23 09:56:22 AM  

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..


Yes. Like all the fans that made death threats against the victims and all the ones who rioted when Sandusky was charged.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:24 AM  
OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:28 AM  

Nabb1: 13 years of Joe Paterno victories have been knocked off


But on a technicality by the governing body. I mean, they still won.

I guess my question is will this affect say...betting number and stat matrices in Vegas?
 
2012-07-23 09:56:30 AM  

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


Had the case been persued in 1998, there would have been an impact for at least a couple of years afterwards, especially in Commitment Letters.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:36 AM  

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..



They also got a 4 year bowl ban, a vacating of all wins from '98-'11 (making JoePa no longer the winningest coach in colllege football history), and a 15 scholie per year reduction for the next four years. The NCAA is not the law - this is about the maximum that they're capable of doing. Several people involved have already resignes, Sandusky is in prison for life, Paterno is dead.

Now we'll see all of the civil suits getting filed, which will cost PSU many millions more to settle.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:37 AM  

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


Grambling's I-AA. So, yes.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:49 AM  

juvandy: I disagree. One of the likely motivations for the coverup was to prevent distractions to the program and maintain the "aura" of PSU as a place that "does things right". Both allowed them to focus on games and get good recruits, when they should have been dealing with a child rapist. They fundamentally prioritized winning at all costs, and a number of children were hurt in the process. That is inexcusable, and the NCAA absolutely did the right thing.


See that word in bold? That's one of several reason why it absolutely was not the right thing to do.

But angry people can now feel like punishment has been meted out, so whoopideedoo.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:52 AM  

austin_millbarge: /but that punishes the students and players right?


So? They hitched their wagons to a horribly corrupt program. That's the breaks.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:01 AM  

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


The vacating the last 14 years would be the only way they can punish Paterno, since you can't beat a dead buried guy. I think they didn't go with the death penalty for the program only because everybody involved has been removed. Although, I would've been okay with the death penalty for the program in this case.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:02 AM  
Headline is woefully inaccurate.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:10 AM  

Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


NCAA is allowing players to transfer to different universities with no penalties, so other schools are going to pick up Penn State's best players. Also, what do the people in the Pros care? They're already in the pros.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:27 AM  

AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.


Unless they've burned the game film, this won't hurt any players' NFL prospects. NFL scouts and teams don't care so much about the team's record as much as individual skill. Good players from bad teams still get drafted and bad players from good teams don't.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:47 AM  

stonicus: Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.


Thats not a good analogy.

1) Paterno is dead and will never need those wins to get another job

2) no PSU student will ever be punished by losing out on a job because Paterno is now no longer the winningest coach.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:50 AM  

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


It's not. See USC for an example as to why.

fark the NCAA. They're just as big of cowards as Paterno.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:52 AM  

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


Grambling is I-AA.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:57 AM  
Penn St having wins vacated doesn't mean they "lost" those games, it means no one won. If Penn St won a game in 2003 by a score of 30-3, their record improved to 0-X, and their opponent still recorded a loss.

And yes, I'm pretty sure JoePa loses 12 years' worth of his 402 wins, putting him out of the top 10 IIRC.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:08 AM  

kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.


They did it because supposedly the PSU people badgered the NCAA by saying joepa was in poor health or may retire soon so they wanted that record and a dirty coach like Bowden shouldn't have it.

If I were Bowden I would be lighting cigars and drinking Cognac this morning.

Personally I love it because now we get to hear Bowden on TV doing interviews, he's always entertaining.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:14 AM  

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


The leadership put the football program above the safety of the children. To protect their recruiting prospects and continue to get wins, they made the choice to ignore the fact children were being RAPED by that guy. The little bit of bad press may have hurt PSU should they have outed him right away, but that would have been very short term and people would not have looked at the leadership as one that allowed children to be raped.

The football players that are affected now will have the option to go to another school and not have to wait one year before playing again, so they have plenty of options.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:28 AM  
Paterno now #12 on the all time wins list, All hail Gagliardi!
 
2012-07-23 09:58:34 AM  
One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:46 AM  
They got a slap on the wrist. If I was SMU, I'd be looking into legal action.

/only people who got Sandusky'd were his victims
//hopefully him as well when they throw him in general population
 
2012-07-23 09:58:48 AM  
Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"


Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?
 
2012-07-23 09:58:54 AM  

austin_millbarge: Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..

That's what the ensuing lawsuits and continued investigation is for. If you don't punish the program, then it sends a message that this sort of institutional misbehavior is acceptable. Sorry life sucks.

They should just be counting their lucky stars they didn't get the death penalty.


They should have, on top of everything else, for five years, though the civil suits will bleed the organization. I only wish there were a way to protect the academics and students while proverbially frying the football program and administration to a metaphorical crisp - say, free transfers to other schools for faculty, researchers, and students, covered by PSU assets. Protect a serial child rapist, face the consequences.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:59 AM  
Everyone is focusing on the fact that Penn. State avoided the death penalty, or that they have to lose 60 million bucks. Thats minor compared to the two things that REALLY hurts.

1: Loss of Scholarships. Big sports schools like PS are in fierce competition for the best players, and the way they draw in the best is full rides to the school. You want the next Payton Manning? You ain't gonna charge him tuition because some other school will give him the free ride. Loss of these scholarships will dramatically impact the amount of quality players who will be coming to the school.

2: No post season for 4 years. This is very bad, because now there are no bowl games. Boosters will not give as much money, advertising revenue will drop, and PS will not be able to take part in the new playoff system. Even worse, referring to point #1, a lot of good quality talent will pass on PS to go to Michigan or Ohio for the post season games. Why play your ass off for a school that isn't going to have a post season?

Paterno's loss of record is a minor triviality. The sixty million dollar fine is manageable. These two have a long term effect.

Penn State avoided the swift death penalty. But they just contracted cancer.
 
2012-07-23 09:59:01 AM  

dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?


Yep.

Kicker, JoePa isn't in the Top Ten overall anymore.
 
2012-07-23 09:59:35 AM  

Endive Wombat: stonicus: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.

So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.

As for my resume analogy, it was a bad one. =) It doesn't affect the past students or players at all, just on Paterno's and the college's records it shows they lost. To non-sports fans, this won't mean anything. Perhaps a less worse analogy would be stripping an Oscar from an actor. Doesn't affect the people who saw the movie, just he no longer has that accolade.
 
2012-07-23 09:59:39 AM  
The players and students aren't being penalized. The players can transfer and play immediately. Even if they don't, they will still be able to play next year and will still be able to be drafted on the basis of their own merit. That's better than the death penalty, which would have forced them to transfer or quit.

The students/alumni aren't strongly penalized other than not being able to watch as good a team as they could. $60 mil isn't that much to a program with a 100,000 seat stadium capacity. At $60 per seat, they'd make all the money back in 10 games.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:08 AM  

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.


Oh yeah, just pretend that a 14 year cover-up never happened.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:16 AM  

Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


No, and I don't think that is how pro football works.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:38 AM  

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.



Is this really the only morally bankrupt thing that went on in your opinion?
 
2012-07-23 10:00:40 AM  

R.A.Danny: This is the winner?


it sure is - and well earned if you ask me.

/not subby
 
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