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(ESPN)   Penn State gets Sandusky'd   (espn.go.com) divider line 1081
    More: News, Penn State, Sandusky'd, Mark Emmert, President Ma, College Coach, Beaver Stadium, defensive coordinator, Joe Schad  
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16147 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 9:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



1081 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-07-23 09:45:13 AM
This is the winner?
 
2012-07-23 09:45:15 AM
Nicely done, subby.
 
2012-07-23 09:45:33 AM
60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..
 
2012-07-23 09:45:38 AM
I couldn't find a suitable yawning pic that also conveyed disdain.
 
2012-07-23 09:45:48 AM
I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.
 
2012-07-23 09:45:49 AM
I heard a slapping sound but walked by the thread.
 
2012-07-23 09:46:08 AM
Well done, subby.
 
2012-07-23 09:46:27 AM
Hahahaha!!!! You pedophiles lost every game since '98!!!!
 
2012-07-23 09:46:27 AM
So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?
 
2012-07-23 09:46:47 AM

R.A.Danny: This is the winner?


I know.

At least it doesn't have the newsflash tag. So, we should be happy for that, I guess.
 
2012-07-23 09:46:59 AM
weak.
 
2012-07-23 09:47:16 AM
FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?
 
2012-07-23 09:47:19 AM
-.- ..... Well done subby!
 
2012-07-23 09:47:26 AM

dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?


That's the first thing I thought to -- guess so?
 
2012-07-23 09:47:31 AM
So Bobby Bowden is now the winningest coach?
 
2012-07-23 09:47:47 AM

kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.


I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.
 
2012-07-23 09:48:27 AM
Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.
 
2012-07-23 09:48:34 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Bowls give you money and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.
 
2012-07-23 09:48:35 AM
Dear Penn:

HA ha!!!
 
2012-07-23 09:48:42 AM
God knows we need another rational thread on the sanctions...
 
2012-07-23 09:48:51 AM
One penalty the NCAA didn't issue that I would have:

All games for the next season must be played on the practice facility.

Make no mistake, Beaver Stadium will be full. Joe Paterno will be worshiped and nothing about the football culture at Penn State will change. If anything, this will make them feel more victimized.
 
2012-07-23 09:49:14 AM
Nothing like pushing out an article filled with errors. Nice job, ESPN.
 
2012-07-23 09:49:23 AM
Well, they certainly damaged Paterno's coaching legacy, so I guess that's something.
 
2012-07-23 09:49:24 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Think of the vacation as when Stalin would have people removed from photographs.
 
2012-07-23 09:49:38 AM

kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.


Why? That makes perfect sense to me. JoePa doesn't get those wins, which means that ALL he will be remembered for 20 years from now is kiddie rape. That's as much justice as there will ever be with him.

As for the other punishments, $60 million that will go towards fighting other abuses is good, no bowls for a while is OK. I still would have like a total suspension of play for a couple of years, but we can't get everything I guess.
 
2012-07-23 09:49:46 AM

ScouserDuck: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Bowls give you money and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.


Bowls also give a team a few more weeks of practice.
 
2012-07-23 09:49:55 AM
i wish they could revive joe pa and give him the news
 
2012-07-23 09:49:57 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


It's supposed to send a message that while no one other than Sandusky went to jail for what happened, we should feel like they were treated severely for what happened.
 
2012-07-23 09:50:10 AM

lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.


This scandal is directly related to the football program. I, personally, haven't heard of a situation arising from a catholic university. But there are so many that it's possible I missed it.
 
2012-07-23 09:50:18 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Lack of bowl games hurts recruiting and the vacated wins mean that Paterno is no longer the all time Div 1A wins leader.
 
2012-07-23 09:50:18 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Because Paterno was at the top of the all time D-1 coaching wins list. Taking away those 12 years of wins ensures he is nowhere near the record now.
 
2012-07-23 09:50:31 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.
 
2012-07-23 09:50:31 AM

ScouserDuck: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Bowls give you money and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.


So Penn State has retroactively "lost" all previously won games, which does what?
 
2012-07-23 09:50:55 AM
It's dusky in here...
 
2012-07-23 09:51:21 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


That's not so much a punishment for Penn State but a deterrent to other programs and universities.
 
2012-07-23 09:51:28 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: Why? That makes perfect sense to me. JoePa doesn't get those wins, which means that ALL he will be remembered for 20 years from now is kiddie rape. That's as much justice as there will ever be with him.


That's all he was going to be remembered for at this point anyway, regardless of what any official record says. Build 1,000 bridges and overlook ONE child molestation and no one will ever remember you as a bridge builder.

Imagine if he had lived to see this, along with his statue being torn down. He would die of a fatal ego implosion, no doubt.
 
2012-07-23 09:51:29 AM
I just wish Joe was alive to see it.
 
2012-07-23 09:51:40 AM

TanSau: Dear Penn:

HA ha!!!


Penn was sanctioned too?

Man... The NCAA is out of control today.
 
2012-07-23 09:52:11 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: I just wish Joe was alive to see it.


*Like*
 
2012-07-23 09:52:19 AM

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..


When I heard about it I thought the same thing. It's a slap on the wrist to Penn State but a blow to the students. The coach didn't win those games, the kids on the field did. This is hurting the students more than it's hurting the college. Plus, I feel bad for the senior football players who were working hard to try and get to those bowl games. More sanctions on the people involved and not the innocent students.
 
2012-07-23 09:52:41 AM

dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?


Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.
 
2012-07-23 09:52:54 AM

stonicus: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

That's not so much a punishment for Penn State but a deterrent to other programs and universities.


Exactly. It's a reminder that there are more important things than winning football games, like protecting the innocence of a child.
 
2012-07-23 09:53:06 AM

WhoIsWillo: One penalty the NCAA didn't issue that I would have:

All games for the next season must be played on the practice facility.

Make no mistake, Beaver Stadium will be full. Joe Paterno will be worshiped and nothing about the football culture at Penn State will change. If anything, this will make them feel more victimized.


If there is no chance for a bowl game why would any decent player play for them?
 
2012-07-23 09:53:07 AM
i45.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-23 09:53:18 AM

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..


That's what the ensuing lawsuits and continued investigation is for. If you don't punish the program, then it sends a message that this sort of institutional misbehavior is acceptable. Sorry life sucks.

They should just be counting their lucky stars they didn't get the death penalty.
 
2012-07-23 09:53:20 AM

Endive Wombat: ScouserDuck: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Bowls give you money and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.

So Penn State has retroactively "lost" all previously won games, which does what?


Effectively - nothing. But, this year, Joe Paterno passed Bobby Bowden on the all-time wins list for a D-1A/Bowl Subdivision football team. As far as the record books are concerned, 13 years of Joe Paterno victories have been knocked off, which drops Paterno way down that list. To the Cult of JoePa, this is pretty devastating.
 
2012-07-23 09:53:22 AM

LeafyGreens: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

That's the first thing I thought to -- guess so?


Go Noles!
 
2012-07-23 09:53:27 AM
Penn State just got some urban renewal.
cdn.bleacherreport.net
 
2012-07-23 09:53:27 AM

stonicus: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.


So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?
 
2012-07-23 09:53:35 AM

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


Grambling was 1-AA for many of those years. Bowden leads 1-A.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:01 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


I'm no sports fan, but it basically cripples their football program, which is one of Penn State's big money makers.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:06 AM

Vodka Zombie: TanSau: Dear Penn:

HA ha!!!

Penn was sanctioned too?


Teller narc'ed. Turns out he really did have a lot to say.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:21 AM
Now it's time for the Big 10 to kick them out.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:30 AM
a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998

The postseason ban limits their revenue from the bowls (big $$), and might reduce its attractiveness to high school players who want media exposure for the draft.

Vacating wins reduces Paterno's total wins, and drops him from being the coach with the most wins in college football.


I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


I disagree. One of the likely motivations for the coverup was to prevent distractions to the program and maintain the "aura" of PSU as a place that "does things right". Both allowed them to focus on games and get good recruits, when they should have been dealing with a child rapist. They fundamentally prioritized winning at all costs, and a number of children were hurt in the process. That is inexcusable, and the NCAA absolutely did the right thing.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:31 AM
Holw long were you keeping that headline a secret, subby?
 
2012-07-23 09:54:40 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Postseason play, for a team that regularly makes bowls above the "Chick-Fil-A" Bowl, is a great source of ticket and ad revenue.

Purdue wouldn't feel it (sob), but Penn State would.
 
2012-07-23 09:54:44 AM

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


<thatsracist.gif> ?
 
2012-07-23 09:54:49 AM
From a redlit thread yesterday, some real meat for the "Joe Pa's image is still real to me" crowd - try this:

1) Offer all students and faculty transfers to other schools, with all costs covered by whatever PSU has in assets.

2) Raze the entire campus.

3) Salt the earth the campus once stood upon.

4) Put Joe Paterno's statue in the middle of this field of woe and let it stand there as a reminder to all other organizations of what will happen if a child rapist is allowed to operate under official protection.

/there you go psu apologists - enjoy your shiny over-the-top suggestion to lambaste
//you don't want to know what I'd do to Vatican City in my imagination
 
2012-07-23 09:54:50 AM

ScouserDuck: and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.


..no, it knocks the child molester sympathizer Paterno off his perch as the winningest coach.

/but that punishes the students and players right?
 
2012-07-23 09:54:54 AM

Nabb1: As far as the record books are concerned, 13 years of Joe Paterno victories have been knocked off, which drops Paterno way down that list. To the Cult of JoePa, this is pretty devastating.


iamokwiththis.jpg
 
2012-07-23 09:54:55 AM
I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.
 
2012-07-23 09:55:07 AM

lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.


Because f*ck you, troll.
 
2012-07-23 09:55:08 AM
I don't understand eliminating scholarships. Why punish the students for their coaches' farkups?
 
2012-07-23 09:55:24 AM
Do I need to grab my stuff from the other thread and move in here?
 
2012-07-23 09:55:32 AM
I was partial to banning the football program for a few years. But this is also good.

This is what you get when you protect a molester in order to prevent bad press.
 
2012-07-23 09:55:39 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Because all that matters to the Paterno Paladins is FOOTBALL.

Paterno was directly involved in covering this up to protect his legacy...so taking away a bit part of the legacy (most Div 1 wins) is appropriate.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:13 AM

Endive Wombat: So Penn State has retroactively "lost" all previously won games, which does what?


I think this guy can explain retroactive changes to the past
www.biography.com
 
2012-07-23 09:56:16 AM
sportretort.files.wordpress.com
Hey Joe---------I win

www.celebs101.com
 
2012-07-23 09:56:21 AM

maxximillian: LeafyGreens: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

That's the first thing I thought to -- guess so?

Go Noles!


I actually came to dislike Bobby Bowden - the way he left was completely selfish and I think he should've resigned in 2006 (the year I watched us lose to Wake Forest 30-0 in a steady downpour).

However, I always thought it was ridiculous that he had twelve wins vacated for a cheating "scandal" that the NCAA admitted no one in the Florida State administration even knew about.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:21 AM

tailormadebassist: Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..

When I heard about it I thought the same thing. It's a slap on the wrist to Penn State but a blow to the students. The coach didn't win those games, the kids on the field did. This is hurting the students more than it's hurting the college. Plus, I feel bad for the senior football players who were working hard to try and get to those bowl games. More sanctions on the people involved and not the innocent students.


It's a knee-jerk appeal to emotion with no interest whatsoever in actually punishing the guilty. It even says so in the FA:

The NCAA took unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing, bypassing a system in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.

Gee, just like the due process and system bypass that led to 14 years of cover-up. Way to punish those responsible, NCAA!
 
2012-07-23 09:56:22 AM

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..


Yes. Like all the fans that made death threats against the victims and all the ones who rioted when Sandusky was charged.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:24 AM
OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:28 AM

Nabb1: 13 years of Joe Paterno victories have been knocked off


But on a technicality by the governing body. I mean, they still won.

I guess my question is will this affect say...betting number and stat matrices in Vegas?
 
2012-07-23 09:56:30 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


Had the case been persued in 1998, there would have been an impact for at least a couple of years afterwards, especially in Commitment Letters.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:36 AM

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..



They also got a 4 year bowl ban, a vacating of all wins from '98-'11 (making JoePa no longer the winningest coach in colllege football history), and a 15 scholie per year reduction for the next four years. The NCAA is not the law - this is about the maximum that they're capable of doing. Several people involved have already resignes, Sandusky is in prison for life, Paterno is dead.

Now we'll see all of the civil suits getting filed, which will cost PSU many millions more to settle.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:37 AM

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


Grambling's I-AA. So, yes.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:49 AM

juvandy: I disagree. One of the likely motivations for the coverup was to prevent distractions to the program and maintain the "aura" of PSU as a place that "does things right". Both allowed them to focus on games and get good recruits, when they should have been dealing with a child rapist. They fundamentally prioritized winning at all costs, and a number of children were hurt in the process. That is inexcusable, and the NCAA absolutely did the right thing.


See that word in bold? That's one of several reason why it absolutely was not the right thing to do.

But angry people can now feel like punishment has been meted out, so whoopideedoo.
 
2012-07-23 09:56:52 AM

austin_millbarge: /but that punishes the students and players right?


So? They hitched their wagons to a horribly corrupt program. That's the breaks.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:01 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


The vacating the last 14 years would be the only way they can punish Paterno, since you can't beat a dead buried guy. I think they didn't go with the death penalty for the program only because everybody involved has been removed. Although, I would've been okay with the death penalty for the program in this case.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:02 AM
Headline is woefully inaccurate.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:10 AM

Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


NCAA is allowing players to transfer to different universities with no penalties, so other schools are going to pick up Penn State's best players. Also, what do the people in the Pros care? They're already in the pros.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:27 AM

AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.


Unless they've burned the game film, this won't hurt any players' NFL prospects. NFL scouts and teams don't care so much about the team's record as much as individual skill. Good players from bad teams still get drafted and bad players from good teams don't.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:47 AM

stonicus: Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.


Thats not a good analogy.

1) Paterno is dead and will never need those wins to get another job

2) no PSU student will ever be punished by losing out on a job because Paterno is now no longer the winningest coach.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:50 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


It's not. See USC for an example as to why.

fark the NCAA. They're just as big of cowards as Paterno.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:52 AM

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


Grambling is I-AA.
 
2012-07-23 09:57:57 AM
Penn St having wins vacated doesn't mean they "lost" those games, it means no one won. If Penn St won a game in 2003 by a score of 30-3, their record improved to 0-X, and their opponent still recorded a loss.

And yes, I'm pretty sure JoePa loses 12 years' worth of his 402 wins, putting him out of the top 10 IIRC.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:08 AM

kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.


They did it because supposedly the PSU people badgered the NCAA by saying joepa was in poor health or may retire soon so they wanted that record and a dirty coach like Bowden shouldn't have it.

If I were Bowden I would be lighting cigars and drinking Cognac this morning.

Personally I love it because now we get to hear Bowden on TV doing interviews, he's always entertaining.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:14 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


The leadership put the football program above the safety of the children. To protect their recruiting prospects and continue to get wins, they made the choice to ignore the fact children were being RAPED by that guy. The little bit of bad press may have hurt PSU should they have outed him right away, but that would have been very short term and people would not have looked at the leadership as one that allowed children to be raped.

The football players that are affected now will have the option to go to another school and not have to wait one year before playing again, so they have plenty of options.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:28 AM
Paterno now #12 on the all time wins list, All hail Gagliardi!
 
2012-07-23 09:58:34 AM
One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:46 AM
They got a slap on the wrist. If I was SMU, I'd be looking into legal action.

/only people who got Sandusky'd were his victims
//hopefully him as well when they throw him in general population
 
2012-07-23 09:58:48 AM
Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"


Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?
 
2012-07-23 09:58:54 AM

austin_millbarge: Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..

That's what the ensuing lawsuits and continued investigation is for. If you don't punish the program, then it sends a message that this sort of institutional misbehavior is acceptable. Sorry life sucks.

They should just be counting their lucky stars they didn't get the death penalty.


They should have, on top of everything else, for five years, though the civil suits will bleed the organization. I only wish there were a way to protect the academics and students while proverbially frying the football program and administration to a metaphorical crisp - say, free transfers to other schools for faculty, researchers, and students, covered by PSU assets. Protect a serial child rapist, face the consequences.
 
2012-07-23 09:58:59 AM
Everyone is focusing on the fact that Penn. State avoided the death penalty, or that they have to lose 60 million bucks. Thats minor compared to the two things that REALLY hurts.

1: Loss of Scholarships. Big sports schools like PS are in fierce competition for the best players, and the way they draw in the best is full rides to the school. You want the next Payton Manning? You ain't gonna charge him tuition because some other school will give him the free ride. Loss of these scholarships will dramatically impact the amount of quality players who will be coming to the school.

2: No post season for 4 years. This is very bad, because now there are no bowl games. Boosters will not give as much money, advertising revenue will drop, and PS will not be able to take part in the new playoff system. Even worse, referring to point #1, a lot of good quality talent will pass on PS to go to Michigan or Ohio for the post season games. Why play your ass off for a school that isn't going to have a post season?

Paterno's loss of record is a minor triviality. The sixty million dollar fine is manageable. These two have a long term effect.

Penn State avoided the swift death penalty. But they just contracted cancer.
 
2012-07-23 09:59:01 AM

dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?


Yep.

Kicker, JoePa isn't in the Top Ten overall anymore.
 
2012-07-23 09:59:35 AM

Endive Wombat: stonicus: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.

So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.

As for my resume analogy, it was a bad one. =) It doesn't affect the past students or players at all, just on Paterno's and the college's records it shows they lost. To non-sports fans, this won't mean anything. Perhaps a less worse analogy would be stripping an Oscar from an actor. Doesn't affect the people who saw the movie, just he no longer has that accolade.
 
2012-07-23 09:59:39 AM
The players and students aren't being penalized. The players can transfer and play immediately. Even if they don't, they will still be able to play next year and will still be able to be drafted on the basis of their own merit. That's better than the death penalty, which would have forced them to transfer or quit.

The students/alumni aren't strongly penalized other than not being able to watch as good a team as they could. $60 mil isn't that much to a program with a 100,000 seat stadium capacity. At $60 per seat, they'd make all the money back in 10 games.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:08 AM

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.


Oh yeah, just pretend that a 14 year cover-up never happened.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:16 AM

Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


No, and I don't think that is how pro football works.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:38 AM

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.



Is this really the only morally bankrupt thing that went on in your opinion?
 
2012-07-23 10:00:40 AM

R.A.Danny: This is the winner?


it sure is - and well earned if you ask me.

/not subby
 
2012-07-23 10:00:44 AM
so what reggie bush did was less than half as bad as facilitating child rape for over a decade?
 
2012-07-23 10:00:50 AM
I just want to point out that I checked the Wikipedia entry for the all time coaching wins record around 8:30 and Paterno's record had already been corrected.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:51 AM

Endive Wombat: Nabb1: 13 years of Joe Paterno victories have been knocked off

But on a technicality by the governing body. I mean, they still won.

I guess my question is will this affect say...betting number and stat matrices in Vegas?


Well, any bets on Penn State winning a bowl game in the next four years suddenly become really long shots.

/just think of the potential payout though!
 
2012-07-23 10:00:53 AM

Tenga: So Bobby Bowden is now the winningest coach?


Ya. Paterno will still be in the record books, but it will be for most consecutive losses.
 
2012-07-23 10:00:58 AM

cameroncrazy1984: mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.

Oh yeah, just pretend that a 14 year cover-up never happened.


Oh come on, they were kids that had never been shown any love in their lives. What he was doing is showing what love is like when you become an adult.

Am I doing it right?
 
2012-07-23 10:01:03 AM

stonicus: Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.


Oh god, not a distraction! That's so terrible. PSU students should be shielded from the reality that their university officials covered up child abuse at their campus for 14 years. Because they are precious little snowflakes.
 
2012-07-23 10:01:14 AM
But does it say how long before Joe Paterno can coach again?
 
2012-07-23 10:01:19 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

Why? That makes perfect sense to me. JoePa doesn't get those wins, which means that ALL he will be remembered for 20 years from now is kiddie rape. That's as much justice as there will ever be with him.

As for the other punishments, $60 million that will go towards fighting other abuses is good, no bowls for a while is OK. I still would have like a total suspension of play for a couple of years, but we can't get everything I guess.


I love, love, love this punishment. So great.
 
2012-07-23 10:01:29 AM

brobdiggy: Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?



YES. Of course it did. Do you know nothing of college football recruiting? How many down-to-the-wire battles for big recruits would PSU have lost if this had been public knowledge? "Pedo State" would have suffered big time in the recruiting fight against other schools -- those schools would have skewered them with this. Better recruits means more wins. So they ABSOLUTELY did better than they would have. Not to mention, there's a good chance Paterno would have been forced out a decade ago if this had become public.
 
2012-07-23 10:01:35 AM

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:


Well, for starters, it wasn't one kid, it was several kids over several years, and there was a conspiracy among those in the football program, including the head coach to cover it up.

Furthermore, no one is losing scholarships. Players are allowed to transfer. Penn State won't be destroied by this (though the Civil suits may be another story).

Paterno's legacy needed to be destroyed. He protected a child molester, and created a situation where a man was able to rape at least three children.
 
2012-07-23 10:01:38 AM

RexTalionis: Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?

NCAA is allowing players to transfer to different universities with no penalties, so other schools are going to pick up Penn State's best players. Also, what do the people in the Pros care? They're already in the pros.


Looking into the future and getting into the hall of fame? Being able to shoot off bragging stats like:

In High School - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In College - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In the Pros - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
 
2012-07-23 10:01:51 AM

R.A.Danny: austin_millbarge: /but that punishes the students and players right?

So? They hitched their wagons to a horribly corrupt program. That's the breaks.


That's kinda of what i was saying, yes. My slashie was what other people are likely saying.
 
2012-07-23 10:01:58 AM

Funk Brothers: Penn State just got some urban renewal.


You can bet this scumbag will be on the PSU campus first thing to take players, most coaches are scumbags a few are better at hiding it namely saban, Meyer, and joepa
 
2012-07-23 10:02:11 AM
Screw vacating wins. If the NCAA wants to hurt a team, they need to go back to TV bans. No appearances, no TV money from your conference.
 
2012-07-23 10:02:26 AM
I'm thinking we need some perspective on this. It's unfortunate that the current players are being affected, but that's not the NCAA's fault. That's Jerry Sandusky's fault. And Joe Paterno's. And Tim Curley's. Point the finger at them. One call to the police back in 98 would have caused a scandal, but they would have recovered, and most likely would have been hailed as heroes for bringing a child rapist to justice.

Children were raped while the PSU athletic program chose to look the other way, and we're whining about whether a kid gets to play football as his first-choice school. Really?
 
2012-07-23 10:02:32 AM

Endive Wombat: Looking into the future and getting into the hall of fame? Being able to shoot off bragging stats like:

In High School - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In College - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In the Pros - X# of touchdowns and yards ran


Hall of Fame only looks at your pro stats. There's a College Football Hall of Fame for what you did in College. So, I guess it could affect that.
 
2012-07-23 10:02:37 AM
Show me on this bowl bracket where the NCAA touched you.
 
2012-07-23 10:02:44 AM
So....free tattoos, accepting autograph fees and covering it up = 1 year bowl ban.
Facilitating child rape for over a decade and giving the child rapist a cash bonus and covering up multiple child rapes = 4-year bowl ban.

Does anyone really think what PSU did is only 4 times worse?
 
2012-07-23 10:02:47 AM

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.


Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno (him being dead and all), but the rest is knee-jerk reactionism designed solely for PR purposes. If they actually want to do something legitimate, announce publicly that they're going to investigate, determine who was complicit in the cover-up, and ban them from working at NCAA member institutions for life.

But no, instead completely bypass your own rules and pass down punishment that only affects people who had nothing to do with the scandal you're supposedly addressing. Farking mob mentality.
 
2012-07-23 10:02:48 AM
WhoIsWillo: Make no mistake, Beaver Stadium will be full. Joe Paterno will be worshiped and nothing about the football culture at Penn State will change. If anything, this will make them feel more victimized.

agree...but will they stadium fill after a few 2-9 seasons? i honestly don't know.
 
2012-07-23 10:02:55 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


Yeah, and despite the haters on here, we will recover and be back on top once this is all said and done. The next few years will be hard, but we will be back.
 
2012-07-23 10:02:59 AM
Seems fair.

But it does remind of this passage from 1984 :

Most of the material that you were dealing with had no connexion with anything in
the real world, not even the kind of connexion that is contained in a direct lie.
Statistics were just as much a fantasy in their original version as in their rectified
version. A great deal of the time you were expected to make them up out of your
head. For example, the Ministry of Plenty's forecast had estimated the output of
boots for the quarter at 145 million pairs. The actual output was given as sixty-two
millions. Winston, however, in rewriting the forecast, marked the figure down to
fifty-seven millions, so as to allow for the usual claim that the quota had been
overfulfilled. In any case, sixty-two millions was no nearer the truth than fiftyseven
millions, or than 145 millions. Very likely no boots had been produced at all.



/hungover
 
2012-07-23 10:03:10 AM

WhoIsWillo: One penalty the NCAA didn't issue that I would have:

All games for the next season must be played on the practice facility.

Make no mistake, Beaver Stadium will be full. Joe Paterno will be worshiped and nothing about the football culture at Penn State will change. If anything, this will make them feel more victimized.


Or, make them play every game on the road, no home games at all for four years. According to the story, that should be worth about $60 million dollars per year to Penn State. It would be a big fark you to the fan base who would otherwise worship Joe Pa.

Next, I want to see the Big Ten dump them from the conference.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:14 AM

Arkham: 2: No post season for 4 years. This is very bad, because now there are no bowl games. Boosters will not give as much money, advertising revenue will drop, and PS will not be able to take part in the new playoff system. Even worse, referring to point #1, a lot of good quality talent will pass on PS to go to Michigan or Ohio for the post season games. Why play your ass off for a school that isn't going to have a post season?


They don't get to play in the post-season -- wondering if that also means that they don't get their 1/12 cut of the Big Ten bowl payout?
 
2012-07-23 10:03:14 AM

austin_millbarge: ScouserDuck: and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.

..no, it knocks the child molester sympathizer Paterno off his perch as the winningest coach.

/but that punishes the students and players right?


I was speaking as a college football fan. I would be crushed if my team's record was 0-14 years. But what you and others had said is correct too.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:26 AM

Endive Wombat: RexTalionis: Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?

NCAA is allowing players to transfer to different universities with no penalties, so other schools are going to pick up Penn State's best players. Also, what do the people in the Pros care? They're already in the pros.

Looking into the future and getting into the hall of fame? Being able to shoot off bragging stats like:

In High School - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In College - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In the Pros - X# of touchdowns and yards ran


Once you are in the pros no one cares what you did in college.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:30 AM

brobdiggy: Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


Sure... if they've already been covering up child rape for 10+ years. OTOH, this will give a coach or administrator incentive to immediately go public if they find out about something for the first time in the future.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:30 AM

brobdiggy: Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


That's a valid concern, but what's a better alternative? Rewarding those who come forward? A cash prize for whistle blowers?
 
2012-07-23 10:03:33 AM
How much damage will the scholarship ban really do? If a team can give out 25 new scholarships not more than 85 total. They lose ten now, they are down to 75 total football scholarships but they still get to add 15 more next year. I get that many students graduate and this will have a real impact, but is it really such a decisive blow or just a big pain in the ass...so to speak?
 
2012-07-23 10:03:36 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


imagine if ray lamontagne had his beard shorn off and all white stripes MP3s were deleted.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:38 AM

Endive Wombat: RexTalionis: Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?

NCAA is allowing players to transfer to different universities with no penalties, so other schools are going to pick up Penn State's best players. Also, what do the people in the Pros care? They're already in the pros.

Looking into the future and getting into the hall of fame? Being able to shoot off bragging stats like:

In High School - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In College - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In the Pros - X# of touchdowns and yards ran


They'll still get the # of touchdowns and yards ran.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:39 AM

Endive Wombat: Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


The bowl ban (and the loss of scholarships) basically means that the university will lose hundreds of millions of dollars, and the football program will probably never recover.

The vacated wins basically means nothing.

As long as current players are allowed to transfer without penalty, then I have no problem with this. They should have decided this earlier, though, to give those kids time.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:53 AM

AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.


NONE, every football player on that program will have the option to immediately switch and play for another school. Normally to do this they have to wait 1 year before they are allowed to play, that is waived in this case.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:56 AM
It's not enough.

You want to know what's enough? Nothing. Not a damn thing.

But I would have STARTED with one year of the death penalty for every count for which Sandusky was convicted.

GFY, Penn State.

You too, Emmert. If you're gonna make a stand, make a farking stand.
 
2012-07-23 10:03:58 AM

stonicus: As for my resume analogy, it was a bad one. =)


Yeah, I do not know what else to compare it to.
 
2012-07-23 10:04:10 AM

brobdiggy: Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


The cover up is worse than the crime. If you're going to blow the whistle, make sure it's to an outside legal authority.
 
2012-07-23 10:04:12 AM

brobdiggy: Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


You do realize that the underlined is exactly what happened, but they were avoiding 'feeling responsible' about giving the football program and/or the university a bad name.
 
2012-07-23 10:04:16 AM
All you PSU apologists need to take a serious look in the mirror. Your blind worship of the program is part of what allowed this cover-up to occur!

Rub your faces in this pile of crap, and get used to it, because you earned it. It's only a game, he was only a man, and the school will accept its punishment and move on.
 
2012-07-23 10:04:23 AM
Breaking News: The NCAA also ordered Penn State to change their mascot
i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-07-23 10:04:33 AM

Carousel Beast: Farking mob mentality.


You Joepa White Knights keep throwing this term around. Please stop as it does not fit the situation and makes you look stupid.

Thanks!
 
2012-07-23 10:04:37 AM

gimmegimme: So....free tattoos, accepting autograph fees and covering it up = 1 year bowl ban.
Facilitating child rape for over a decade and giving the child rapist a cash bonus and covering up multiple child rapes = 4-year bowl ban.

Does anyone really think what PSU did is only 4 times worse?


Sure, if that was the only sanction given to PSU. But it wasn't, so I'm not sure what your point is.
 
2012-07-23 10:04:40 AM

Congratulations to Bobby Bowden, the retroactive all time wins leader! Oh, and good job to that Robertson guy from the black school too.

- Willard Mitt Romney (@MlTTR0MNEY) July 23, 2012
 
2012-07-23 10:04:46 AM

AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.


The NFL doesn't give a shiat how many games you've won. If you're a monster on a bad team, you'll get drafted. All the NFL cares about is performance. The worst player on Alabama this year still isn't getting drafted.
 
2012-07-23 10:05:00 AM
Jim Delaney to announce Big 10 sanctions at 10.
 
2012-07-23 10:05:02 AM
So Joe Pa is now only the 5th winningest coach in D-1 history? Eh, no wonder they tore down his statue.
 
2012-07-23 10:05:18 AM
What's really scary is that PSU and other schools just got the message that covering up their faculty's and coaches' sexual assault of children is OK. Sandusky wasn't they only one doing this. So did Neisworth and Lasaga. I fully expect more stories in the future of university faculty abusing children with impunity.

/ooohh $60 million
//they'll just raise tuition
///baring bankruptcy faculty and coaches get their 6 figure salaries no matter what
 
2012-07-23 10:05:32 AM
Let's kick 'em out of the Big Ten as well!
 
2012-07-23 10:05:36 AM
I hope the Polk High Panthers never have a scandal like this. Al Bundy would be crushed...
 
2012-07-23 10:05:37 AM

brobdiggy: Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


If anyone looks at the NCAA's reaction to a nearly fifteen-year coverup of serial child rape and thinks "woah, we'd better cover whatever we're doing up even better!", that person is an idiot, and the administration that listens to that person will deserve the consequences.
 
2012-07-23 10:05:38 AM

Gimmick: Tenga: So Bobby Bowden is now the winningest coach?

Ya. Paterno will still be in the record books, but it will be for most consecutive losses.


Gagliardi
 
2012-07-23 10:05:48 AM

bdub77: This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA.


0/10
 
2012-07-23 10:05:53 AM

dlp211: Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?

No, and I don't think that is how pro football works.


Once you're a professional player (especially after a few years), your college background is as meaningful as where you played pee-wee football.
 
2012-07-23 10:05:54 AM

austin_millbarge: stonicus: Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.

Thats not a good analogy.

1) Paterno is dead and will never need those wins to get another job

2) no PSU student will ever be punished by losing out on a job because Paterno is now no longer the winningest coach.


Yeah, I thought that too after I had sent it... =P
 
2012-07-23 10:05:56 AM

steamingpile: Funk Brothers: Penn State just got some urban renewal.

You can bet this scumbag will be on the PSU campus first thing to take players, most coaches are scumbags a few are better at hiding it namely saban, Meyer, and joepa


No, problem. We only got a bowl ban for one year. Besides, we're focusing on beating Michigan this year.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:02 AM

tailormadebassist: It's a slap on the wrist to Penn State but a blow to the students. The coach didn't win those games, the kids on the field did. This is hurting the students more than it's hurting the college. Plus, I feel bad for the senior football players who were working hard to try and get to those bowl games. More sanctions on the people involved and not the innocent students.


Nobody ever said life was fair. The message had to be sent: If you think outing a pedophile like Sandusky would do your sports program damage, we'd like you to remember just how much more damage we will do when we find out. Choose wisely.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:12 AM

Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.


Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?
 
2012-07-23 10:06:17 AM

bdub77: OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.


Good thing the Big Ten decided to clean itself up by bringing on Nebras...

Oh.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:21 AM
I love how the PSU apologists are acting like the former director of the Freaking FBI does not know anything about due process or how to run an investigation.
You folks comissioned the report and you got the truth but...,
sbrownehr.com
 
2012-07-23 10:06:31 AM

BMFPitt: Endive Wombat: Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

The bowl ban (and the loss of scholarships) basically means that the university will lose hundreds of millions of dollars, and the football program will probably never recover.

The vacated wins basically means nothing.

As long as current players are allowed to transfer without penalty, then I have no problem with this. They should have decided this earlier, though, to give those kids time.


I would imagine most of the star players will get gobbled up very quickly.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:35 AM

nekom: brobdiggy: Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?

That's a valid concern, but what's a better alternative? Rewarding those who come forward? A cash prize for whistle blowers?


The message being sent isn't "If there is child molesting going on you will lose 4 years of scholarships and vacate 10 years of wins" It is "If there is child molesting going on and the entire program covers it up for a decade, you will lose 4 years of scholarships and vacate 10 years of wins"


Pretty big difference.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:37 AM
I'm not saying it's the death penalty......... But it's the death penalty.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:38 AM

Confabulat: So Joe Pa is now only the 5th winningest coach in D-1 history? Eh, no wonder they tore down his statue.


Not even in the top 10.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:42 AM

lack of warmth: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

The vacating the last 14 years would be the only way they can punish Paterno, since you can't beat a dead buried guy. I think they didn't go with the death penalty for the program only because everybody involved has been removed. Although, I would've been okay with the death penalty for the program in this case.


Well, you could. Dig him up and give him a few dozen whacks. But that would be kinda gross and smell bad...
 
2012-07-23 10:07:04 AM
. . . and may not be used to fund such programs at the university."

The unkindest cut of all.

No! NO cash for you - Let it GO!
 
2012-07-23 10:07:10 AM
I laughed a little as the NCAA guy went on and on about how "we stand for honor and integrity in collegiate sports, and the behavior of Penn State has gone beyond any bounds we ever imagined possible"

It's like he was doing it on purpose.
 
2012-07-23 10:07:20 AM
Reposted from other thread:

I think the NCAA got this right. It will cripple the football program just enough so they won't be competitive. It's a HUGE fark you to Paterno and the culture that was created at PSU. I also like making sure that the $60 million goes to victims of abuse.

/was skeptical of NCAA getting this righ
 
2012-07-23 10:07:30 AM
Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.
 
2012-07-23 10:07:51 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Confabulat: So Joe Pa is now only the 5th winningest coach in D-1 history? Eh, no wonder they tore down his statue.

Not even in the top 10.


huh, i need to find a revised list.
 
2012-07-23 10:07:57 AM
A question about the scholarships. If PSU has to reduce the number given, can other schools give more to balance things out? If the goal is to avoid punishing future students (who I think we can safely assume are innocent in all this) why leave 10 people out in the cold?
 
2012-07-23 10:08:01 AM
Ok, so how does this work? Will history now state that in the 2006 Orange Bowl, Florida State lost to blank? Or will Florida State now be recognized as the winner of the Orange Bowl?
Can we just go ahead and feed JoPa's remains to the wolves now?
 
2012-07-23 10:08:05 AM

spentmiles: Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.


I give this about a 5/10. You might get some bites.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:25 AM

gimmegimme: Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?



I didn't know that the Catholic Church had a football program governed by the NCAA.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:49 AM

Confabulat: cameroncrazy1984: Confabulat: So Joe Pa is now only the 5th winningest coach in D-1 history? Eh, no wonder they tore down his statue.

Not even in the top 10.

huh, i need to find a revised list.


I think he might be top-5 in Div I-A. But if you say D-1, that includes 1A and 1AA.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:50 AM
Penn St will still win 5 games every year. Even a shiatty team can win 5 in the Big Ten. Especially when they play community colleges the first 2 weeks.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:55 AM
Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:57 AM

Julieahni: Nothing like pushing out an article filled with errors. Nice job, ESPN.


You were expecting actual journalism? LOL
 
2012-07-23 10:09:03 AM

kdawg7736: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

Yeah, and despite the haters on here, we will recover and be back on top once this is all said and done. The next few years will be hard, but we will be back.


Good for you! Just try not to touch any kiddies on the way through the locker room.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:10 AM
"If they play football come September at Penn State, something's wrong."
Bob Costas, Meet the Press, July 15, 2012
 
2012-07-23 10:09:13 AM

sab6300: Endive Wombat: So Penn State has retroactively "lost" all previously won games, which does what?

I think this guy can explain retroactive changes to the past
[www.biography.com image 402x402]


I was scrolling to say that.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:14 AM

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


Does Grambling count? I thought those records were in a special section at the back of the record book.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:15 AM
TFA: "We cannot look to NCAA history to determine how to handle circumstances so disturbing, shocking and disappointing," Emmert said in the statement. "As the individuals charged with governing college sports, we have a responsibility to act. These events should serve as a call to every single school and athletics department to take an honest look at its campus environment and eradicate the 'sports are king' mindset that can so dramatically cloud the judgment of educators."

Called it, and good on the NCAA. They actually exceeded my expectations and figured out the "too big to fail" BS culture at PSU.

FBS schools are not entitled to due process. The NCAA is not an arm of the government; it administers sports and as such there is no authority to "abuse" in the sense of fundamental rights, because there are no fundamental rights in sports beyond what you are given by the law itself. In this case, going by the book would've given PSU too many opportunities to drag out the issue and sweep the PR damage under the rug.

kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.


No, it's fine. As others have noted, it's mostly to destroy JoePa's record and I'm fine with it. No one will starve to death in the streets or get raped in a shower over a mere re-writing of the record books. It's the pursuit of the record books that got kids raped.

This is less about measuring the competitive advantage PSU might've gained by coddling a rapist and more about destroying the "too big to fail" culture that infected EVERY level of PSU football, from the head coach down to the fans who harassed the victims. The message is clear: Football does not matter. And it doesn't. The more PSU dug in, the more they showed that every last brick of the world they built by covering up heinous crimes needed to be destroyed.

Is PSU being made an example of? Yeah. Do we care? No. And the more anyone tries to convince the world that PSU football is more important than protecting rape victims, the less the world will care. Now, hopefully, a coach at any other FBS school will think of reporting any sexual abuse as saving the football program instead of putting it at risk, and that's a million times more important than whatever the hell PSU thinks is important.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:18 AM
I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:18 AM
Wow, fooseball sure is important, huh?
 
2012-07-23 10:09:43 AM

Nabb1: AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.

Unless they've burned the game film, this won't hurt any players' NFL prospects. NFL scouts and teams don't care so much about the team's record as much as individual skill. Good players from bad teams still get drafted and bad players from good teams don't.


Fair enough; I'm not a football fan, college or otherwise. It still seems like a douche move to retroactively alter the records of those who long since graduated, though, when they themselves had no personal responsibility for the crimes of Sandusky.

I'm in no way equating what Sandusky's victims suffered to the damage done to these players, but it seems an brain-dead response: "Sandusky did these horrible things and Paterno covered of for him. Whatever shall we do? I know! let's make a bunch more innocent victims in the whole mess!"

It's not going to happen, but what if Sandusky has his convictions overturned on appeal (and wins the inevitable retrial; the prosecutor wouldn't shrug and walk away)? Would the NCAA then say "too bad" or would they yet again attempt to alter history?
 
2012-07-23 10:09:46 AM
This is not nearly enough. Erasing those wins is completely meaningless tripe designed purely and completely for fluff to make it seem like they "did something" to Paterno.

60 million in fines will not make every other school jump up to take notice.

The bowl bans might but not really.

If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:17 AM

ShereKhan: Breaking News: The NCAA also ordered Penn State to change their mascot
[i2.kym-cdn.com image 400x648]


Actually added some slight modifications: i45.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-23 10:10:24 AM
*Raises Hand*

Can Penn State just drop out of the NCAA, and keep the $60 million?

I mean the football program will no longer be economically viable, and will take over a decade to even rebuild.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:28 AM
Joe Pa may no longer be the winningest coach in college football but he is still the rapiest!
 
2012-07-23 10:10:29 AM

cameroncrazy1984: gimmegimme: So....free tattoos, accepting autograph fees and covering it up = 1 year bowl ban.
Facilitating child rape for over a decade and giving the child rapist a cash bonus and covering up multiple child rapes = 4-year bowl ban.

Does anyone really think what PSU did is only 4 times worse?

Sure, if that was the only sanction given to PSU. But it wasn't, so I'm not sure what your point is.


We usually agree on stuff, so I'll answer without snark. Who cares about the 60 million? PSU doesn't. They can find that in the couches the students will overturn when they riot. Who cares about the vacated wins? Sure, Pedoterno doesn't officially get the record, but you KNOW that many misguided PSU fans will still claim him to be #1. Plus, the guy's dead. He doesn't care. The students who were at the game still remember those games.

I just don't feel this is a big enough hammer.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:39 AM
It's the NCAA who gives a FARK ? 60 million they make 100 million a year !! Joke and Like I said who gives a flyin fark
 
2012-07-23 10:10:41 AM

Endive Wombat: ScouserDuck: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


At many schools the athletic department is legally separate from, and not under the control of the university administration. Some college presidents, in private, refer to it as "a professional football or basketball team, with a university attached." The schools, since Miles Brandt headed the NCAA, have been trying to regain control of the programs, and all that money the athletic foundations have been making and spending. Taking $60 mil from Penn State's athletic department has little, if no impact on the students who go there to study.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:41 AM

brobdiggy: Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


Or it might make them not keep their mouths shut.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:41 AM

bwilson27: Wow, fooseball sure is important, huh?


For some kids it is a real pain in the ass.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:55 AM
I love all the people screaming they should've gotten the death penalty, idiots can't grasp this is worse than the death penalty for a year. After this PSU will be lucky to be competitive in division III for the next decade.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:27 AM
Hey guys; can we let this one go? At this point; all that is being accomplished is beating a dead horse. Yes, Sandusky was a molester. Yes, Joe Paterno and penn state really screwed up.

Let me break it to you softly; any NCAA program that says that it has never had an incident where a player or a coach took liberties with another person (read sexual assault / rape) is either extremely ignorant or being downright deceitful. The athletes in big programs have young ladies throw themselves at the athletes. And occasionally, one of these young ladies, will come to the university and say that she was taken advantage of. In 99% of these cases; the university buys the young lady's silence with free tuition.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:28 AM

steamingpile: this is worse than the death penalty


Yes it is.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:28 AM

DubyaHater: Ok, so how does this work? Will history now state that in the 2006 Orange Bowl, Florida State lost to blank? Or will Florida State now be recognized as the winner of the Orange Bowl?
Can we just go ahead and feed JoPa's remains to the wolves now?


The other team still records a loss. Penn State's records just won't reflect victories anymore. At least that's how it worked when Michigan basketball had to vacate their seasons after the Weber scandal.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:30 AM

WhoIsWillo: Paterno's legacy needed to be destroyed. He protected a child molester, and created a situation where a man was able to rape at least three children.


THIS. Paterno's "fans" need a good hard smack of reality.
This is how he should be remembered.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:39 AM

DamnYankees: Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.


The legacy of Joe Paterno.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:43 AM

DamnYankees: Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.


It's not the rape, it's the coverup. That happened too, you know.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:44 AM

randomjsa: If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.


So you want to punish all those student athletes who have devoted huge parts of their life to their athletics, for doing absolutely nothing wrong?
 
2012-07-23 10:11:51 AM

bwilson27: Wow, fooseball sure is important, huh?


The NCAA said the $60 million was equivalent to the average annual revenue of the football program.
//sounds important
 
2012-07-23 10:11:53 AM
I think the separation of academic and criminal life is every bit as important as the separation of church and state. The muddying factor is that the criminal behaviour took place on university property. These sanctions set a very important and disturbing precedent; never previously as the NCAA punished criminal behaviour.
Had Paterno lived, he could have been tried and punished in a criminal court, with criminal sanctions. To retroactively "pretend" that games were not won (an athletic sanction) appears to be a shoddy attempt to punish someone who is now immune to criminal prosecution, and a severe overstepping of both due process and the boundaries of responsibility.
The real upshot of this disturbingly quick ruling is that the wins attributed to Paterno now belong to Sandusky, as the assumption is that the criminal behaviour (in this case, kiddy-diddling) was so crucial to the success of the team, that this criminal behaviour unfairly gave Penn State an advantage over other teams, just as improper recruiting, etc might have.
Changing track slightly, I feel equally strongly about schools adding punishments to students charged with crimes off-campus. If a conviction incurs such a loss of attendance that deferral is improbable, then I can understand that student's expulsion. Otherwise, there is already a mechanism in place to punish or reform criminal behaviour; adding extra sanctions only increases the chance of its repetition once the reparations have been carried out.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:00 AM

Endive Wombat: stonicus: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.

So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


The way the rule works:

Any stats accumulated stand.
Any wins that Penn State achieved are marked in the record book as vacated. The team they beat is still marked as having lost the game.
Any losses that Penn State made during that time period are still considered losses.

Yes, it farks over current student-athletes. It's the way we've always handled these things: if a doctor screws up and amputates the wrong leg, the hospital gets sued and that hurts everyone there who isn't that screw-up doctor. If a police officer screws up and wrongfully kills someone, the city gets sued and that hurts everyone who isn't that screw-up police officer. If university employees systematically covers up pedophilia in order to protect the image of the university and the football team's revenue stream, the university gets hit and that hurts everyone who isn't the screw-ups who protected the pedophile.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:10 AM

MisterLoki: Jim Delaney to announce Big 10 sanctions at 10.


Holy shiat...I hadn't even thought about the B10 dropping the hammer, too.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:35 AM

jst3p: gimmegimme: Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?

The point is that both organizations are really front groups for child rape.

/It's a pity they don't; I love a good Hail Mary.
I didn't know that the Catholic Church had a football program governed by the NCAA.

 
2012-07-23 10:12:38 AM

Lucubrationist: I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.


So you think that the football program should have been say...suspended for 10 years or permanently dissolved?
 
2012-07-23 10:12:48 AM
Football is not so important that kids get butt-raped and people argue about the ramifications.
 
2012-07-23 10:12:48 AM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Does Grambling count? I thought those records were in a special section at the back of the record book.


Everybody just counts 3/5ths of his wins
 
2012-07-23 10:12:53 AM

Tenga: So Bobby Bowden is now the winningest coach?


Correct. Effectively Penn State has been forced to vacate every win since 1998. That is more punishment than SMU received by far.

The worst part...three years minimum of those wins should not be vacated, since Paterno and company were assured that Sandusky wasn't a pedo by law enforcement.

If you are looking for justice, the NCAA makes a rural Georgia county look like the court of Solomon.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:01 AM

cameroncrazy1984: stonicus: Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.

Oh god, not a distraction! That's so terrible. PSU students should be shielded from the reality that their university officials covered up child abuse at their campus for 14 years. Because they are precious little snowflakes.


Calm down... I was just answering someone else's question... shhhhh, it'll be ok... relax...
 
2012-07-23 10:13:11 AM
I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.


It's not a slap on the wrist. It punishes those who deserve it most (the culture that covered up the crime) while allowing the students, alumni, players, and staff, who had nothing to do with the crime, to continue playing/watching/benefiting from the game.

Essentially, it's a quick reset button that protects those innocent of the crime. A death penalty would not have penalized the innocent as much as the guilty.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:12 AM
Would be hilarious if Penn state said fark you, we're not doing any of that shiat, and permanently disbanding our football team, so lick our taint. Not that Penn State is in the right, but I hate other entities besides a court of law getting some chance to display an ability to punish and really relish in it. HOA coonts jump to mind as a good analogue.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:16 AM
The next fun will be to see if the Department of Education has the balls to hit Penn State with huge fines for failure to report the crimes under the Clery Act.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:16 AM

BMFPitt: As long as current players are allowed to transfer without penalty, then I have no problem with this. They should have decided this earlier, though, to give those kids time.


Don't worry, the other colleges' recruiters are already making calls.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:53 AM

steamingpile: I love all the people screaming they should've gotten the death penalty, idiots can't grasp this is worse than the death penalty for a year. After this PSU will be lucky to be competitive in division III for the next decade.


Agreed. Whoever said above that the program avoided the quick death but has been given cancer, that about sums it up.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:54 AM

stonicus: cameroncrazy1984: stonicus: Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.

Oh god, not a distraction! That's so terrible. PSU students should be shielded from the reality that their university officials covered up child abuse at their campus for 14 years. Because they are precious little snowflakes.

Calm down... I was just answering someone else's question... shhhhh, it'll be ok... relax...


Oh, I know. You were answering it in a completely retarded way.
 
2012-07-23 10:13:58 AM

TheAuldTriangle: stonicus: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

That's not so much a punishment for Penn State but a deterrent to other programs and universities.

Exactly. It's a reminder that there are more important things than winning football games, like protecting the innocence of a child.


If the football programs suffer, the US might drop to #48 in math and science, instead of #47.
 
2012-07-23 10:14:10 AM

DamnYankees: Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.


It's not unrelated at all. You can find one trillion arguments against universities that have placed football over the real purpose of academia, it's just that we're all so inured to it we barely know it's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT.

This is the NCAA trying to put a small course correction on a very large ship that veered off course a long time ago. It's just a band-aid really, but it's a step in the right direction. Hell, I was reading on the Penn State message board saying he felt he just woke up a little; he was sleeping in bed next to his lovely wife and 5-month-old daughter and he was losing sleep over the legacy of a dead man he'd never met who was known for a child's game.

Sometimes people need things like this to wake up and realize what they've built.
 
2012-07-23 10:14:28 AM

Carousel Beast: mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.

Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno (him being dead and all), but the rest is knee-jerk reactionism designed solely for PR purposes. If they actually want to do something legitimate, announce publicly that they're going to investigate, determine who was complicit in the cover-up, and ban them from working at NCAA member institutions for life.

But no, instead completely bypass your own rules and pass down punishment that only affects people who had nothing to do with the scandal you're supposedly addressing. Farking mob mentality.


latimesblogs.latimes.com
What a mob mentality might look like.

/hotter than a burning couch at a frat party
 
2012-07-23 10:14:40 AM
I think we all know what happens next. Everyone thinks that next year's team is going to be terrible, the worst in D1. They'll get some no-name coach, some washed-up assistant coach, a 35-year-old quarterback and a rag-tag group of players who have more character and quirks than football talent. In the end, they'll not only beat the rival in the final game of the season, but they'll win over our hearts.
 
2012-07-23 10:14:43 AM
Hitting them in the wallet is the only thing that the NCAA thought would get their attention so the loss of bowl games and removing the legacy wins should do that pretty well.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:00 AM

steamingpile: I love all the people screaming they should've gotten the death penalty, idiots can't grasp this is worse than the death penalty for a year. After this PSU will be lucky to be competitive in division III for the next decade.


That would probably have been true even without NCAA sanctions. Really all NCAA sanctions are at this point are the NCAA covering ITS OWN ASS so that college athletics do not turn into a complete joke. If the NCAA had done nothing, they would have appeared to everyone to be a worthless organization held aloft with slave labor.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:02 AM

gimmegimme: The point is that both organizations are really front groups for child rape.


If that is your "point" then all I can assume you are kind of dumb. I am not defending the pedophile church but considering there is no equivalence to the NCAA relative to the Vatican it is meaningless to draw a comparison asking for "punishment". If you think you are being clever, you aren't. No one here is defending the rape church.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:12 AM
This is all garbage.
The only people who will suffer for this are the 18-21 year old kids who had nothing to do with it. Jo Pa is dead and disgraced. Everyone else who was involved has been fired months ago.

If I were in college sports, I think this would paint the picture of the NCAA as a bunch of heavy-handed assholes who come in after the fact to preach & punish the innocent.

14 years vacated - they should quit that organization & set up a competing conference.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:15 AM
In reality, what kind of punishment is taking away wins? Everyone knows they won them, and there would always be an asterisk saying they won (insert game here.)
 
2012-07-23 10:15:24 AM
College also has education and academia right? Oh, what will they do?
 
2012-07-23 10:15:29 AM
I wonder what Sandusky is thinking right now, sitting in his cell, knowing that he destroyed the program and irreparably injured so many children. He's got to be a seriously soulless piece of shiat considering to not be swinging from his shoelaces. I'd personally like to start the Kill Yourself Sandusky Campaign. Details coming later. Is it illegal for a huge group of people to cheer someone to suicide?
 
2012-07-23 10:15:39 AM

jst3p: gimmegimme: Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?

I didn't know that the Catholic Church had a football program governed by the NCAA.


So if you don't participate in NCAA then it's OK then? That's Penn State's problem right there.
 
2012-07-23 10:15:51 AM

DamnYankees: randomjsa: If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.

So you want to punish all those student athletes who have devoted huge parts of their life to their athletics, for doing absolutely nothing wrong?


They have the option to transfer out to any school free of punishment/penalty.

And as to your first question, it's really the only way you can punish a dead guy, tarnish his legacy.

/I'm good with all of it
 
2012-07-23 10:16:07 AM

Endive Wombat: Lucubrationist: I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.

So you think that the football program should have been say...suspended for 10 years or permanently dissolved?


The analysts covering this event claim that this is going to make the team non-competitive for at least 10 years. Why not pull the plug for 5 years? I understand that ALL other sports at nearly every college are dependent upon the revenues from football, but I think the administration needs to be held accountable and penalized for thier inaction.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:16 AM

TheAuldTriangle: stonicus: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

That's not so much a punishment for Penn State but a deterrent to other programs and universities.

Exactly. It's a reminder that there are more important things than winning football games, like protecting the innocence of a child.


and the fact that a school like PSU needed such a reminder is, in my opinion, reason enough to suspend football entirely for at least a year in addition to the punishments they handed out.

Don't punish the students who had nothing to do with it? They should have thought of that before they covered up almost 40 years of child rape. It's not the NCAA, it's Sandusky, Joe Paterno and everybody that knew something about this, could have done something about this but for some reason that boggles the farking mind didn't.

they got off light in my opinion.
don't agree? what does it take to suspend a football team? Covering up the rape of 20 kids doesn't do it? what does then? linking them to 9-11?

they suspended the Duke LAX season and those guys weren't even on trial yet, not to mention innocent.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:20 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


It's not if you aren't settling bar bets.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:23 AM

Carousel Beast: Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno


How about just listing the "head coach" position for those years as "vacant" -- in effect retroactively disqualifying Paterno from the position? That would have the desired effect without collateral damage, and isn't any further from reality than pretending the outcome of games years ago was different.
 
2012-07-23 10:16:23 AM
So will Beaver Stadium allow people to cosplay as Pedobear or Catholic priests at their games?
 
2012-07-23 10:16:26 AM
Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?
 
2012-07-23 10:16:36 AM

jst3p: gimmegimme: The point is that both organizations are really front groups for child rape.

If that is your "point" then all I can assume you are kind of dumb. I am not defending the pedophile church but considering there is no equivalence to the NCAA relative to the Vatican it is meaningless to draw a comparison asking for "punishment". If you think you are being clever, you aren't. No one here is defending the rape church.


Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today!
 
2012-07-23 10:16:44 AM
/hears drums in Tallahassee

//does the Seminole "chop"
 
2012-07-23 10:17:03 AM
Well, I guess this means Sandusky gets his wish: now the PSU football team will be made up of a lot of really small guys.
 
2012-07-23 10:17:05 AM
Vacating wins has to be the dumbest punishment ever conceived. Everyone knows they actually won those games, and they already spent the money generated from ticket sales on account of having a winning football team. All they are doing is crossing out some lines on a paper.
 
2012-07-23 10:17:24 AM

Baz the Spaz: The next fun will be to see if the Department of Education has the balls to hit Penn State with huge fines for failure to report the crimes under the Clery Act.


That will happen right after the Justice Department hits the Catholic Church[tm] with the RICO Act.
 
2012-07-23 10:17:37 AM

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened

Yep. and Paterno is now no longer the "winningest" coach.

- Destroy an entire university
Only for people like you who think that th University is only a football program

- Take away scholarships from people that need them
Nope... those people can and will still get scholarships at other schools

- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers
Again, only if you believe that the best of the student body are the athletes, instead of the scholars who are there to actually learn

Yup, that's justice.
Yup
 
2012-07-23 10:18:00 AM

basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?


The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.
 
2012-07-23 10:18:17 AM

Mixolydian Master: Would be hilarious if Penn state said fark you, we're not doing any of that shiat, and permanently disbanding our football team, so lick our taint


Well they are getting a reputation for those sort of demands...
 
2012-07-23 10:18:31 AM
Meh. Sound and fury signifying nothing. We're so mad at you that we're going to hurt every player from the last decade + even though they weren't the ones raping kids. There, aren't you students so sorry that you probably didn't know and could never have helped those children! It's like your mother beating your brother when your father is caught screwing around. Just kick them out of the league for bad sportsmanship or something instead. That would show a no-tolerance sort of attitude. Horses, barn door and all.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:02 AM

bulldg4life: basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?

The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.


But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:09 AM

Lucubrationist: The analysts covering this event claim that this is going to make the team non-competitive for at least 10 years. Why not pull the plug for 5 years? I understand that ALL other sports at nearly every college are dependent upon the revenues from football, but I think the administration needs to be held accountable and penalized for thier inaction.


Wow, so 10 years before they can even begin to start REALLY winning back sponsors and attracting super coaches and players? Shiat.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:30 AM
Ok, did I miss something. So everyone knows about the shower incident where Paterno did report it to his superior. So what more did her cover up? Is there something that the public doesn't know about?

/not a PSU fan.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:46 AM

Tommy Moo: Vacating wins has to be the dumbest punishment ever conceived.


It ruins JoePa's record. While that seems trifling now that he is dead, he was all about his legacy.
 
2012-07-23 10:19:47 AM
Slap On the wrist
 
2012-07-23 10:20:06 AM

bulldg4life: basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?

The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.


yup.
 
2012-07-23 10:20:12 AM

spentmiles: I wonder what Sandusky is thinking right now, sitting in his cell, knowing that he destroyed the program and irreparably injured so many children. He's got to be a seriously soulless piece of shiat considering to not be swinging from his shoelaces. I'd personally like to start the Kill Yourself Sandusky Campaign. Details coming later. Is it illegal for a huge group of people to cheer someone to suicide?


All Sandusky is thinking about is that sweet, sweet ass he used to get thanks to Joe Pa and other supporters and enablers. I'm sure Sandusky in his mind often goes back to that night in the shower or the trip to Dallas with that boy or all the other incidents of him raping boys. The rest of life for guys like him is just about getting some more of that ass and those memories. Thankfully, Sandusky won't be able to build any more memories. He'll just have to live in the ones Joe Pa helped him acquire.
 
2012-07-23 10:20:16 AM
In some ways, this result is better than a temporary death penalty. Why? Cause Penn State fans can watch their over-glorified overrated sports spectacle suck balls the next few years.
 
2012-07-23 10:20:22 AM

Richard Flaccid: Ok, did I miss something. So everyone knows about the shower incident where Paterno did report it to his superior. So what more did her cover up? Is there something that the public doesn't know about?

/not a PSU fan.


Talk about beating a dead horse.
 
2012-07-23 10:20:34 AM

Tommy Moo: Vacating wins has to be the dumbest punishment ever conceived. Everyone knows they actually won those games, and they already spent the money generated from ticket sales on account of having a winning football team. All they are doing is crossing out some lines on a paper.


It seems to be pissing off a lot of Joe P. apologists, so I like it,
 
2012-07-23 10:20:47 AM

All_Farked_Up: Slap On the wrist


no...this will damage PSU football for about a decade.
 
2012-07-23 10:20:57 AM
Maybe I'm just not a big enough football fan or something, but I don't understand why anyone gives a damn whether someone changes football records years after the fact.

Denying the reality that Penn State won games over the past X years just makes officials look kind of insane in a Ministry of Truth sort of way. It seems entirely beside the point if you care about what Penn State did on the field, and if you don't care what they did on the field then why would you care about a false record of it?
 
2012-07-23 10:21:06 AM

gadian: Meh. Sound and fury signifying nothing. We're so mad at you that we're going to hurt every player from the last decade + even though they weren't the ones raping kids. There, aren't you students so sorry that you probably didn't know and could never have helped those children! It's like your mother beating your brother when your father is caught screwing around. Just kick them out of the league for bad sportsmanship or something instead. That would show a no-tolerance sort of attitude. Horses, barn door and all.


Okay...here's what you and Penn State partisans need to learn. Penn State did this. Joe Paterno did this. Curley and Sandusky did this. Don't blame the NCAA or "you" or "ESPIN." Blame Paterno et. al., which is what all of the civil suits will say in the "defendant" portion.
 
2012-07-23 10:21:27 AM
Zombie Paterno must pay!

Reanimate him then kill him again!
 
2012-07-23 10:21:30 AM

DamnYankees: But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.


No, they aren't obliged to take them. And, in many cases, the schools are probably at (or above) their allotment for scholarship athletes...so they'd have trouble bringing them in.

But, the players with visions of playing past college would probably have no problem finding a team.
 
2012-07-23 10:21:57 AM

steamingpile: I love all the people screaming they should've gotten the death penalty, idiots can't grasp this is worse than the death penalty for a year. After this PSU will be lucky to be competitive in division III for the next decade.


this is essentially half again as much as what usc got. usc comes off their sanctions this year. usc is likely going to be ranked in the top five to open the season.

if anyone in charge at psu had any perspective or dignity they would shut it down for a couple years and make sure everyone involved understands what is important.

it is obvious what is important to psu and the ncaa.
 
2012-07-23 10:21:57 AM

Lucubrationist: The analysts covering this event claim that this is going to make the team non-competitive for at least 10 years. Why not pull the plug for 5 years? I understand that ALL other sports at nearly every college are dependent upon the revenues from football, but I think the administration needs to be held accountable and penalized for thier inaction


Meh, those most directly responsible will be held accountable by the legal system. The NCAA can only do so much, and I don't think they're used to dealing with situations where actual crimes were committed. Even at SMU, it was recruiting corruption. Not good, but not criminal. In this case the people will involved will have to answer to a higher authority than the NCAA.

I do think these sanctions will knock the program off its perch long-term.
 
2012-07-23 10:22:01 AM

Agarista: I think the separation of academic and criminal life is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.


Why? I don't see football in the Bill of Rights.

I form a club, you join the club, you rape kids I get to kick your ass out. You don't get to stay just because the law got to you first.

People really need to read up on basic civics here. The reasons for legal precedents such as due process, habeas corpus etc. are because governments have a history of undermining basic human rights to retain power and wealth. Extracurricular activities weren't exactly on the Founding Fathers' list of priorities.
 
2012-07-23 10:22:21 AM
All Hail Eddie Robinson!!!!
 
2012-07-23 10:22:21 AM

gimmegimme: jst3p: gimmegimme: The point is that both organizations are really front groups for child rape.

If that is your "point" then all I can assume you are kind of dumb. I am not defending the pedophile church but considering there is no equivalence to the NCAA relative to the Vatican it is meaningless to draw a comparison asking for "punishment". If you think you are being clever, you aren't. No one here is defending the rape church.

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today!



A little, my apologies.
 
2012-07-23 10:22:29 AM

DamnYankees: bulldg4life: basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?

The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.

But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.


Well, no, but why wouldn't they? I doubt you'll find any collusion to keep these kids at Penn State.
 
2012-07-23 10:22:34 AM

Endive Wombat: Nabb1: 13 years of Joe Paterno victories have been knocked off

But on a technicality by the governing body. I mean, they still won.

I guess my question is will this affect say...betting number and stat matrices in Vegas?


I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Screw vacating wins. If the NCAA wants to hurt a team, they need to go back to TV bans. No appearances, no TV money from your conference.


The "vacating 14 years of wins" is less about punishing Penn State than it is a posthumous sentence for JoePa.

Banning them from postseason for four years does nothing, they're going to need at least that long to rebuild anyway. A TV ban might have more impact, but again it's not like people are going to want to watch a team that won't be getting any good coaches or players for quite some time.

It's too early to say whether they'll go the way of SMU but I doubt they'll fade away; they have a much larger alumni population and they are known for more things than football. After a few years, and a purge of anyone who was around during the JoePa/Sandusky days, they can fairly honestly say it's a new team and a new start. I think a lot of people will be pulling for them to redeem themselves.
 
2012-07-23 10:22:48 AM

bulldg4life: DamnYankees: But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.

No, they aren't obliged to take them. And, in many cases, the schools are probably at (or above) their allotment for scholarship athletes...so they'd have trouble bringing them in.

But, the players with visions of playing past college would probably have no problem finding a team.


I also read that the current players will, if they choose to stay, be able to keep their scholarships? Is this confirmed? Is it just for this year, or until graduation? I hope that's true, as that would solve a major concern of mine, which is the collateral damage to the current students who did nothing wrong.
 
2012-07-23 10:22:52 AM

Richard Flaccid: Ok, did I miss something. So everyone knows about the shower incident where Paterno did report it to his superior. So what more did her cover up? Is there something that the public doesn't know about?

/not a PSU fan.


Have you read the Freeh report? It's got plenty of emails (none from Paterno because he never used email, old man and all), but they still discussed their plans with him. It reads like at one point they WERE going to the police, but Paterno told them they should go a more "humane" way.
 
2012-07-23 10:23:28 AM

Tenga: So Bobby Bowden is now the winningest coach?


Yup.

$60 mil. Ought to make the BOD and Paterno's estate pay a goodly chunk of that. Take the rest out of Sandusky's ass (charge $5 per assrape in prison).
 
2012-07-23 10:23:30 AM

rugman11: Well, no, but why wouldn't they? I doubt you'll find any collusion to keep these kids at Penn State.


Because where's the demand for the 5th backup linebacker?
 
2012-07-23 10:23:51 AM

spentmiles: I wonder what Sandusky is thinking right now



Has his lawyer prevented him from going with the Full NAMBLA defense? Cause I'm waiting for the "i was just helping young gay boys into a right of passage" consensual sex defense.
 
2012-07-23 10:24:03 AM
and now, he's just one more pedophile, sitting in prison, eating prison food, wearing prison clothes, shuffling in prison shoes, waiting for that quiet knock, that warm hand late at night while his elderly wife oversee's the dissolution of their shared wealth and they both wait for death to erase it all.


It's not perfect but very little is so I'll take it and appreciate the fact that someone was embarrassed into doing something substantive for a change
 
2012-07-23 10:24:04 AM
In about 100 years someone should write an opera about this whole mess.

Call it "Paterno".
 
2012-07-23 10:24:06 AM
All of this hate, and for what? So a guy had some NAMBLA moments with a few kids. What's that in caparison to 100yrs of PSU tradition?
 
2012-07-23 10:24:07 AM

JerseyTim: Congratulations to Bobby Bowden, the retroactive all time wins leader! Oh, and good job to that Robertson guy from the black school too.- Willard Mitt Romney (@MlTTR0MNEY) July 23, 2012


Please tell me that's real.

/subby
 
2012-07-23 10:24:15 AM

basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?


I guess they're trying to send a message that this can not and will not be tolerated. It wasn't fair to the kids that got raped either, but people sometimes get caught up in things that aren't in any way their fault.
 
2012-07-23 10:24:32 AM

DamnYankees: I also read that the current players will, if they choose to stay, be able to keep their scholarships? Is this confirmed? Is it just for this year, or until graduation? I hope that's true, as that would solve a major concern of mine, which is the collateral damage to the current students who did nothing wrong.


It was announced during the press conference. Any current player can keep their scholarship should they meet the academic requirements through the rest of their eligibility.
 
2012-07-23 10:24:57 AM

Confabulat: Richard Flaccid: Ok, did I miss something. So everyone knows about the shower incident where Paterno did report it to his superior. So what more did her cover up? Is there something that the public doesn't know about?

/not a PSU fan.

Have you read the Freeh report? It's got plenty of emails (none from Paterno because he never used email, old man and all), but they still discussed their plans with him. It reads like at one point they WERE going to the police, but Paterno told them they should go a more "humane" way.


Mr. Flaccid is also forgetting the fact that you are not supposed to report child rape to your BOSS. You are obligated (whether morally or legally) to call the COPS. And you are not supposed to allow the child rapist continued access to the rape facilities.
 
2012-07-23 10:25:00 AM

DamnYankees: bulldg4life: DamnYankees: But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.

No, they aren't obliged to take them. And, in many cases, the schools are probably at (or above) their allotment for scholarship athletes...so they'd have trouble bringing them in.

But, the players with visions of playing past college would probably have no problem finding a team.

I also read that the current players will, if they choose to stay, be able to keep their scholarships? Is this confirmed? Is it just for this year, or until graduation? I hope that's true, as that would solve a major concern of mine, which is the collateral damage to the current students who did nothing wrong.


The other important thing for the current players is they can transfer to another school and are immediately eligible to play.
 
2012-07-23 10:25:01 AM

DamnYankees: randomjsa: If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.

So you want to punish all those student athletes who have devoted huge parts of their life to their athletics, for doing absolutely nothing wrong?


If they're really any good, some other school will be happy to take them in. And they can start playing tomorrow.
 
2012-07-23 10:25:46 AM
So apparently it's impossible to get the "death penalty."

The only real penalty in their is the bowl game ban. The $60 million is a one time hit that the boosters can help cover. Vacating the wins is just so Paterno no longer has the winningest record on the books -- pretty much meaningless.

This basically is about the NCAA trying to look tough without really doing any long term harm to the PSU football program.
 
2012-07-23 10:25:47 AM

Endive Wombat: RexTalionis: Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?

NCAA is allowing players to transfer to different universities with no penalties, so other schools are going to pick up Penn State's best players. Also, what do the people in the Pros care? They're already in the pros.

Looking into the future and getting into the hall of fame? Being able to shoot off bragging stats like:

In High School - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In College - X# of touchdowns and yards ran
In the Pros - X# of touchdowns and yards ran


All of which you could brag about if your team lost every game you played in. If I throw 400 yards and five touchdowns in a game but my team lost because the defense sucked, you think I'm going to leave that off?
 
2012-07-23 10:25:58 AM

WMCB: I don't understand eliminating scholarships. Why punish the students for their coaches' farkups?


The idea is that the good athletes will get theirs at other schools, compromising the ability of Penn State to compete, and when they're bad 4 years from now when most of the sanctions end, they'll be unable to recruit good players anyways and will be hard pressed to get good bowl games and the $$$ that comes with it.

/PSU probably would've been better off with the Death Penalty (financially, at least)
 
2012-07-23 10:26:01 AM

nekom: basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?

I guess they're trying to send a message that this can not and will not be tolerated. It wasn't fair to the kids that got raped either, but people sometimes get caught up in things that aren't in any way their fault.


plus....the players can transfer to another program and play immediately. or just finish out their scholarships without playing. the players actually got out of this intact.
 
2012-07-23 10:26:34 AM

Confabulat: Richard Flaccid: Ok, did I miss something. So everyone knows about the shower incident where Paterno did report it to his superior. So what more did her cover up? Is there something that the public doesn't know about?

/not a PSU fan.

Have you read the Freeh report? It's got plenty of emails (none from Paterno because he never used email, old man and all), but they still discussed their plans with him. It reads like at one point they WERE going to the police, but Paterno told them they should go a more "humane" way.


Didn't read it. I will now. Thanks
 
2012-07-23 10:26:40 AM

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..


How did the students get punished? The athletes can transfer and the academic kids can still watch Saturday afternoon football, just a shiatty team now. So what "punishment" did the kids receive?

/did I just respond to a troll?
 
2012-07-23 10:26:52 AM

DamnYankees: I also read that the current players will, if they choose to stay, be able to keep their scholarships? Is this confirmed? Is it just for this year, or until graduation? I hope that's true, as that would solve a major concern of mine, which is the collateral damage to the current students who did nothing wrong.


Current Penn State players and current recruits will maintain their full scholarships for the term of their enrollment, even if they choose to quit the football team.
 
2012-07-23 10:26:59 AM

bdub77: OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.


Michigan got tagged back during the "Rich Rod" era for too much practice time. They lost prctice time as a result and otherwise got slapped on the wrist.

As I've stated before elsewhere, I'm rapidly tiring of college athletics and the dartboard and battle ax approach to punishment of programs. Sure I can root for the University of Kentucky to win another NCAA Men's basketball title this year, and get emotionally invested in the outcome, but increasingly I feel like any program at any moment can have all its wins taken away and be told they never happened because a starting player talked to an agent 5 fives ago and got money for a nice dinner and a pair of shoes. That's not even professional wrestling. It's a farce. Why waste my time?
 
2012-07-23 10:27:17 AM

urbangirl: DamnYankees: randomjsa: If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.

So you want to punish all those student athletes who have devoted huge parts of their life to their athletics, for doing absolutely nothing wrong?

If they're really any good, some other school will be happy to take them in. And they can start playing tomorrow.


Why do they have to be "any good"? I don't think that's a fair marker for determining punishment. If you are a modest pole vaulter, maybe PSU was the only place to offer you a scholarship. I don't think its fair to destroy that student's chance at an education because she happens to go to school at the same place an awful crime was committed.
 
2012-07-23 10:27:25 AM

cameroncrazy1984: stonicus: cameroncrazy1984: stonicus: Well, it hurts students on many levels. One, it's a huge farking distraction for them. College is hard enough.

Oh god, not a distraction! That's so terrible. PSU students should be shielded from the reality that their university officials covered up child abuse at their campus for 14 years. Because they are precious little snowflakes.

Calm down... I was just answering someone else's question... shhhhh, it'll be ok... relax...

Oh, I know. You were answering it in a completely retarded way.


Thank you for your concern. =)
 
2012-07-23 10:27:36 AM

KingKauff: JerseyTim: Congratulations to Bobby Bowden, the retroactive all time wins leader! Oh, and good job to that Robertson guy from the black school too.- Willard Mitt Romney (@MlTTR0MNEY) July 23, 2012

Please tell me that's real.

/subby


It's a real parody account.
 
2012-07-23 10:27:49 AM

WhoIsWillo: One penalty the NCAA didn't issue that I would have:

All games for the next season must be played on the practice facility.

Make no mistake, Beaver Stadium will be full. Joe Paterno will be worshiped and nothing about the football culture at Penn State will change. If anything, this will make them feel more victimized.


White magnet ribbons for everyone! Let the Healing begin! We. Are!
 
2012-07-23 10:27:52 AM

bubbaprog: DamnYankees: I also read that the current players will, if they choose to stay, be able to keep their scholarships? Is this confirmed? Is it just for this year, or until graduation? I hope that's true, as that would solve a major concern of mine, which is the collateral damage to the current students who did nothing wrong.

Current Penn State players and current recruits will maintain their full scholarships for the term of their enrollment, even if they choose to quit the football team.


Fantastic.
 
2012-07-23 10:28:49 AM

DamnYankees: rugman11: Well, no, but why wouldn't they? I doubt you'll find any collusion to keep these kids at Penn State.

Because where's the demand for the 5th backup linebacker?


If he was recruited by Penn State, I guarantee there were multiple other teams out there recruiting him. Plus, when you consider that there are four teams making the move from FCS to FBS this year and need to upgrade their talent, somebody out there is going to want him.
 
2012-07-23 10:29:17 AM

DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?


Because that is how athletic works?
 
2012-07-23 10:29:21 AM

hdhale: bdub77: OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.

Michigan got tagged back during the "Rich Rod" era for too much practice time. They lost prctice time as a result and otherwise got slapped on the wrist.

As I've stated before elsewhere, I'm rapidly tiring of college athletics and the dartboard and battle ax approach to punishment of programs. Sure I can root for the University of Kentucky to win another NCAA Men's basketball title this year, and get emotionally invested in the outcome, but increasingly I feel like any program at any moment can have all its wins taken away and be told they never happened because a starting player talked to an agent 5 fives ago and got money for a nice dinner and a pair of shoes. That's not even professional wrestling. It's a farce. Why waste my time?


Don't break the rules. Don't act like these 'kids' aren't informed of the rules and what is right and wrong. Besides are you really hurt by vacating wins? It's a symbolic gesture, and in this case will harm only one persons reputation, JoePa.
 
2012-07-23 10:29:27 AM
They should be forced to change their name from the Nitany Lions to the Kiddie Molesters.

/wonder if Sandusky is hearing the news, or if he's still in isolation/suicide watch
 
2012-07-23 10:29:30 AM

DamnYankees: bubbaprog: DamnYankees: I also read that the current players will, if they choose to stay, be able to keep their scholarships? Is this confirmed? Is it just for this year, or until graduation? I hope that's true, as that would solve a major concern of mine, which is the collateral damage to the current students who did nothing wrong.

Current Penn State players and current recruits will maintain their full scholarships for the term of their enrollment, even if they choose to quit the football team.

Fantastic.


I was getting really sick of the Paterno defenders whining about the players, even though all of the sensible people were saying that immediate transfer should and would probably be an option.
 
2012-07-23 10:29:31 AM

Richard Flaccid: Ok, did I miss something. So everyone knows about the shower incident where Paterno did report it to his superior. So what more did her cover up? Is there something that the public doesn't know about?

/not a PSU fan.


I think you need to do some more research about this situation before you make comments like that.

Seriously, you're about to get sandusky'ed in this thread....
 
2012-07-23 10:29:54 AM

Baz the Spaz: The next fun will be to see if the Department of Education has the balls to hit Penn State with huge fines for failure to report the crimes under the Clery Act.


Unless i'm mistaken, the severest punishment under the act is the suspension of access to any student financial aid programs.

If 14 years worth of covering up a child rapist at the university doesn't warrant the severest punishment, i'm really not sure what would be.
 
2012-07-23 10:30:01 AM
In other news, the NCAA vacated Tuskegee's wins from 1947-1972, including SIAC championships in 1967,68,69, and 70. This now makes Florida A&M in the all-time winningest HBCU team.
 
2012-07-23 10:30:04 AM

Electriclectic: Well, they certainly damaged Paterno's coaching legacy, so I guess that's something.


JoePa himself did that.
 
2012-07-23 10:30:12 AM

spentmiles: I wonder what Sandusky is thinking right now, sitting in his cell, knowing that he destroyed the program and irreparably injured so many children. He's got to be a seriously soulless piece of shiat considering to not be swinging from his shoelaces. I'd personally like to start the Kill Yourself Sandusky Campaign. Details coming later. Is it illegal for a huge group of people to cheer someone to suicide?


He's thinking about your son...
 
2012-07-23 10:30:18 AM

jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?


But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.
 
2012-07-23 10:30:19 AM
Not an unfair penalty. Except for the vacating of wins. The entire concept of vacating wins is confusing and idiotic and I feel that way about each and every instance they have applied it.
 
2012-07-23 10:31:03 AM

DamnYankees: Because where's the demand for the 5th backup linebacker?


You don't think that Temple could do some things with Penn State recruits? Kent State? Akron? Western Kentucky?
 
2012-07-23 10:31:20 AM
I wonder what Jay Paterno has to say about this....

i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-23 10:31:27 AM

lohphat: jst3p: gimmegimme: Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?

I didn't know that the Catholic Church had a football program governed by the NCAA.

So if you don't participate in NCAA then it's OK then? That's Penn State's problem right there.


No, if you don't participate in the NCAA, then the NCAA isn't allowed to punish you.
 
2012-07-23 10:31:43 AM

WhoIsWillo: DamnYankees: Because where's the demand for the 5th backup linebacker?

You don't think that Temple could do some things with Penn State recruits? Kent State? Akron? Western Kentucky?


I honestly don't know. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing on this particular point.
 
2012-07-23 10:31:47 AM

DamnYankees: rrent players will, if they choose to stay, be able to keep their scholarships? Is this confirmed? Is it just for this year, or until graduation? I hope that's true, as that would solve a major concern of mine, which is the collateral damage to the current students who


I think that ruling was designed to protect students who might want to explore their potential options from being cut for doing so.
 
2012-07-23 10:31:47 AM
who gets the 60m?
 
2012-07-23 10:32:07 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


Yeah, a defensive coordinator definitely has nothing to do with the success of a program called "linebacker U."
 
2012-07-23 10:32:08 AM

DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.


I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.
 
2012-07-23 10:32:09 AM

tailormadebassist: Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..

When I heard about it I thought the same thing. It's a slap on the wrist to Penn State but a blow to the students. The coach didn't win those games, the kids on the field did. This is hurting the students more than it's hurting the college. Plus, I feel bad for the senior football players who were working hard to try and get to those bowl games. More sanctions on the people involved and not the innocent students.


Those "kids" (now all adults) can still say they played football games and won - the University can't. Those kids still have their bowl rings and their degrees (if they graduated). So the "kids" of Penn State lost NOTHING. The current kids can transfer. So quit being a tool - the kids are just fine.
 
2012-07-23 10:32:11 AM
stonicus: No, if you don't participate in the NCAA, then the NCAA isn't allowed to punish you.

Dude, I think you're being trolled.
 
2012-07-23 10:32:32 AM
I am sure that is the weirdest apostrophe I will see all week.
 
2012-07-23 10:32:42 AM

DamnYankees: bulldg4life: basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?

The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.

But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.


Well, no, but if they're good they won't have any problems.
 
2012-07-23 10:32:47 AM

ScouserDuck: I was speaking as a college football fan. I would be crushed if my team's record was 0-14 years. But what you and others had said is correct too.


Crushed? See, that right there is really at the root of the problem in the US. People place WAY TOO MUCH significance in the results of sports teams. Allowing a sports team to be a reflection of one's own identity and self worth shows a distortion of reality that people need to get away from.

Your favorite team isn't who you are.

And if you want to see people who are truly "crushed", go talk to the victims.

Im not trying to bust your balls, you obviously have good intentions with your comment. But to me it reflects an attitude that is a cancer on this nation. People need to stop worshipping sports teams and sports figures.
 
2012-07-23 10:32:47 AM

LesserEvil: I wonder what Jay Paterno has to say about this....

[i.imgur.com image 637x337]


He's probably devestated. Wouldn't you be? This dude didn't do anything wrong, and he's had to learn some horrifying things about his father recently. I have sympathy.
 
2012-07-23 10:32:59 AM
They should have pulled the Football program at Penn State. Anything less is a slap on the wrist. Want to play football at Penn State? Join the Intramural league.
 
2012-07-23 10:33:22 AM

jst3p: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.

I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.


It's also not always justice.
 
2012-07-23 10:33:28 AM

DamnYankees: urbangirl: DamnYankees: randomjsa: If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.

So you want to punish all those student athletes who have devoted huge parts of their life to their athletics, for doing absolutely nothing wrong?

If they're really any good, some other school will be happy to take them in. And they can start playing tomorrow.

Why do they have to be "any good"? I don't think that's a fair marker for determining punishment. If you are a modest pole vaulter, maybe PSU was the only place to offer you a scholarship. I don't think its fair to destroy that student's chance at an education because she happens to go to school at the same place an awful crime was committed.


You're right. There's literally billions of imaginary people who's sports career will be destroyed by this. Maybe even trillions.
 
2012-07-23 10:33:31 AM

jst3p: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.

I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.


They should be viewed as more victims of Sandusky and the people who covered up his crimes.
 
2012-07-23 10:33:43 AM
You guys, no one has brought up the most important thing. Does Mrs. Paterno still get free use of the school's hydrotherapy facilities?
 
2012-07-23 10:34:28 AM

inert: You're right. There's literally billions of imaginary people who's sports career will be destroyed by this. Maybe even trillions.


No, there won't be. But there might be one, or two. And I think its worth thinking about them.
 
2012-07-23 10:34:32 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Baz the Spaz: The next fun will be to see if the Department of Education has the balls to hit Penn State with huge fines for failure to report the crimes under the Clery Act.

Unless i'm mistaken, the severest punishment under the act is the suspension of access to any student financial aid programs.

If 14 years worth of covering up a child rapist at the university doesn't warrant the severest punishment, i'm really not sure what would be.


Illinois has an unrepentant terrorist on their faculty.
Stanford has a notorious history of human-rights abuses.
Tuskegee gave syphilis to people for 25 years and refused to treat them.
Citadel raised an army of sedition.
West Point was commanded by a traitor.

All of those schools receive federal funding.
 
2012-07-23 10:34:38 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Its not. It won't hurt the program at all going forward. You see, the NCAA can't actually damage that program or a few of the other big ones, because they depend on them to survive. Most college football loses money or breaks even, all the truly stupid amounts of money that are made are by only a few big teams.
Those smaller colleges have been punished or even straight up kicked out for minor violations because the NCAA can afford to, sometimes wants to. They needed something here that looked impressive but won't actually affect the cash flow coming in. The big teams never get actual sanctions, because the NCAA would be the one losing the money from those.

/Yes, college sports does have a few select teams that are "too big to fail". this is one of them.
 
2012-07-23 10:35:09 AM

DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.

I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.

It's also not always justice.


Well, there is rarely unanimous agreement on what constitutes "justice".
 
2012-07-23 10:35:25 AM

Endive Wombat: stonicus: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.

So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?


Why don't you just read the article now instead of asking increasingly dumb questions. The info is all there for you with explanations and everything. I don't always snark, but damn!
 
2012-07-23 10:36:03 AM

stampylives: I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

Yeah, a defensive coordinator definitely has nothing to do with the success of a program called "linebacker U."


The vacated wins were from 1998-2011 -- a period in which Sandusky was not a coach.
 
2012-07-23 10:36:24 AM

This text is now purple: Illinois has an unrepentant terrorist on their faculty.
Stanford has a notorious history of human-rights abuses.
Tuskegee gave syphilis to people for 25 years and refused to treat them.
Citadel raised an army of sedition.
West Point was commanded by a traitor.


The NCAA has no authority outside of the sports realm.
 
2012-07-23 10:36:24 AM

DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"? I don't think that's a fair marker for determining punishment. If you are a modest pole vaulter, maybe PSU was the only place to offer you a scholarship. I don't think its fair to destroy that student's chance at an education because she happens to go to school at the same place an awful crime was committed.


So if I understand you correctly it simply would not be possible that he could just continue on there as a normal student without the pole vaulting.

They can transfer or they can become normal students and I double dog dare the college to yank their scholarships. Public opinion can still get worse and we can tack on another 5 or 10 or 20 million fine to cover their education if that's what it takes.
 
2012-07-23 10:36:27 AM

TanSau: Dear Penn:

HA ha!!!


PENN is a well respected Ivy League university in Philadelphia. I know you mean to sound like you are calling it a prison but you are just comming off as really confused. Try State Penn for the proper effect.
 
2012-07-23 10:36:43 AM

jst3p: Well, there is rarely unanimous agreement on what constitutes "justice".


nukethefridge.com

Indeed.
 
2012-07-23 10:37:12 AM

DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.

I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.

It's also not always justice.


You must have missed his foot-in-mouth moment yesterday.

It's unfortunate that somebody who has had the advantages of having the name "Paterno" is now having to deal with the disadvantages of having the name "Paterno". Life can suck like that, but he would have been far better served to keep a low profile, even when they took down his dad's statueshrine.
 
2012-07-23 10:37:40 AM

austin_millbarge: Im not trying to bust your balls, you obviously have good intentions with your comment. But to me it reflects an attitude that is a cancer on this nation. People need to stop worshipping sports teams and sports figures.


People need to seriously research what popular culture followed prior to sports teams and figures.

Dueling dropped dramatically once football caught on in the South.
 
2012-07-23 10:37:42 AM

randomjsa: So if I understand you correctly it simply would not be possible that he could just continue on there as a normal student without the pole vaulting.


Not if she's relying on the scholarship. That's what I'm saying.

To be clear, this is all hypothetical - Penn State wasn't punished in this way, yet.
 
2012-07-23 10:37:50 AM

PlatinumDragon: From a redlit thread yesterday, some real meat for the "Joe Pa's image is still real to me" crowd - try this:

1) Offer all students and faculty transfers to other schools, with all costs covered by whatever PSU has in assets.

2) Raze the entire campus.

3) Salt the earth the campus once stood upon.

4) Put Joe Paterno's statue in the middle of this field of woe and let it stand there as a reminder to all other organizations of what will happen if a child rapist is allowed to operate under official protection.

/there you go psu apologists - enjoy your shiny over-the-top suggestion to lambaste
//you don't want to know what I'd do to Vatican City in my imagination


Yes we do...
 
2012-07-23 10:38:21 AM

LesserEvil: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.

I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.

It's also not always justice.

You must have missed his foot-in-mouth moment yesterday.

It's unfortunate that somebody who has had the advantages of having the name "Paterno" is now having to deal with the disadvantages of having the name "Paterno". Life can suck like that, but he would have been far better served to keep a low profile, even when they took down his dad's statueshrine.


I can't blame the Paterno kids. They had such a disgusting person and poor role model for a father.
 
2012-07-23 10:38:22 AM

gimmegimme: I was getting really sick of the Paterno defenders whining about the players, even though all of the sensible people were saying that immediate transfer should and would probably be an option.


Because uprooting yourself and moving is completely easy and stress free.

Labeling anyone pointing that out a Paterno defender: 2/10
 
2012-07-23 10:38:23 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Oh yeah, just pretend that a 14 year cover-up never happened.


About that
 
2012-07-23 10:38:46 AM

DamnYankees: Not if she's relying on the scholarship. That's what I'm saying.

To be clear, this is all hypothetical - Penn State wasn't punished in this way, yet.



The ruling says Penn State cannot cut sports to pay for the fine.
 
2012-07-23 10:38:48 AM
This isn't about Joe Pa.

This isn't about Penn State.

This is about NEXT STATE. This is about the next school thinking about covering up the abuse of children for the good of the football program. This is supposed to make them decide to do the moral, right thing - because now it will be in their own best self-interest to do so.

Whether these penalties are sufficient to that task is debatable, but at least understand the thought process here.
 
2012-07-23 10:38:55 AM

LesserEvil: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.

I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.

It's also not always justice.

You must have missed his foot-in-mouth moment yesterday.

It's unfortunate that somebody who has had the advantages of having the name "Paterno" is now having to deal with the disadvantages of having the name "Paterno". Life can suck like that, but he would have been far better served to keep a low profile, even when they took down his dad's statueshrine.


I said this?
 
2012-07-23 10:38:59 AM

bulldg4life: It was announced during the press conference. Any current player can keep their scholarship should they meet the academic requirements through the rest of their eligibility.


I also have heard that the NCAA might let other schools expand their scholarship limits to accept transferring PSU players.
 
2012-07-23 10:39:19 AM

PlatinumDragon: //you don't want to know what I'd do to Vatican City in my imagination


I wouldn't mess with the city itself. it has some great buildings. The occupants, yes, but after they were mostly flayed or disarticulated I think the tiny little city itself would make a freaking awesome venue and clubbing spot.
 
2012-07-23 10:39:27 AM

LesserEvil: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.

I agree that there will be some unfortunate side effects for some individuals but justice isn't always pretty.

It's also not always justice.

You must have missed his foot-in-mouth moment yesterday.

It's unfortunate that somebody who has had the advantages of having the name "Paterno" is now having to deal with the disadvantages of having the name "Paterno". Life can suck like that, but he would have been far better served to keep a low profile, even when they took down his dad's statueshrine.


Wow.... I'm not sure how that ended up getting the wrong quote. It was in response to this:

DamnYankees: LesserEvil: I wonder what Jay Paterno has to say about this....

[i.imgur.com image 637x337]

He's probably devestated. Wouldn't you be? This dude didn't do anything wrong, and he's had to learn some horrifying things about his father recently. I have sympathy.

 
2012-07-23 10:39:50 AM
 
2012-07-23 10:40:16 AM

AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.


The players still at Penn State get to transfer with no issues. The players who already graduated are not harmed by this loss of wins in ANY way shape or form. They are either already in the pros or doing something non-football related.

WHY DO SOME OF YOU RETARDS ACT LIKE THE KIDS ARE BEING PUNISHED?

/buncha disingenuous farktards is what you are
 
2012-07-23 10:40:22 AM

WhoIsWillo: DamnYankees: Not if she's relying on the scholarship. That's what I'm saying.

To be clear, this is all hypothetical - Penn State wasn't punished in this way, yet.


The ruling says Penn State cannot cut sports to pay for the fine.


Obviously. The NCAA wouldn't do anything to hurt their own bottom line...
 
2012-07-23 10:40:38 AM

jst3p: I said this?


I was referring to Jay Paterno. I apparently quoted the wrong post.
 
2012-07-23 10:40:58 AM

This text is now purple: stampylives: I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

Yeah, a defensive coordinator definitely has nothing to do with the success of a program called "linebacker U."

The vacated wins were from 1998-2011 -- a period in which Sandusky was not a coach.


I believe he was the Shower Offensive Coordinator
 
2012-07-23 10:41:29 AM

LesserEvil: jst3p: I said this?

I was referring to Jay Paterno. I apparently quoted the wrong post.


Gotcha.
 
2012-07-23 10:41:46 AM

my lip balm addiction: Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..

How did the students get punished? The athletes can transfer and the academic kids can still watch Saturday afternoon football, just a shiatty team now. So what "punishment" did the kids receive?

/did I just respond to a troll?


The students get punished because a major revenue stream for the institution will no longer be a major revenue stream. Combine that with cuts in state and Federal funding, and reductions in donations from alumni and others that have happened everywhere because of the crappy economy and the next sound you hear will be that of crying from the library when they are told about the staff cuts and freezes in salary. Of course the fat ass tenured Classics professor across campus will shuffle in his chair a bit and make "hurumph, they should eliminates athletics anyway" noises, but perhaps he might get a bit more upset when he finds out that he has to share a secretary with several more professors now and may end up making his own copies. The dorms won't be a nice, and the computers in the computer lab won't be as new and that new Sciences Building won't get built any time soon--point is that when you cut funding it hurts in all sorts of little and big ways.
 
2012-07-23 10:41:50 AM

hamdingers: This is about NEXT STATE. This is about the next school thinking about covering up the abuse of children for the good of the football program. This is supposed to make them decide to do the moral, right thing - because now it will be in their own best self-interest to do so.


The problem with these types of messages is that they only work against people who get caught.

We don't know how many schools are covering up events that have not yet come to light -- and how many successfully did it in the past.
 
2012-07-23 10:41:52 AM
Somewhere in rural Pennsylvania, a fat man is crying.
 
2012-07-23 10:42:03 AM

WMCB: I don't understand eliminating scholarships. Why punish the students for their coaches' farkups?


OMFG!!! No student loses their scholarship - the school just can't hand out new ones.

Why are you Sofa King retarded?
 
2012-07-23 10:42:06 AM

sab6300: This text is now purple: stampylives: I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

Yeah, a defensive coordinator definitely has nothing to do with the success of a program called "linebacker U."

The vacated wins were from 1998-2011 -- a period in which Sandusky was not a coach.

I believe he was the Shower Offensive Coordinator


Wow. A+
 
2012-07-23 10:42:13 AM

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.


Nope, one man does that , you just send him to jail.

One entire institution acknowledges, enables and protects that man repetitively and for years because they don't want to lose a good football coach, the entire institution needs to burn. Period
 
2012-07-23 10:42:14 AM
I don't think that's enough. I'd like to see

xaxor.com
 
2012-07-23 10:42:24 AM
Pretty weak, NCAA. Looks like your track record of doing the wrong thing is safe.
 
2012-07-23 10:43:08 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


Think, McFly.... That move had nothing to do with Sandusky and everything to do with Paterno being removed from the record books for his part in it.
 
2012-07-23 10:43:22 AM

WhoIsWillo: The ruling says Penn State cannot cut sports to pay for the fine.


The NCAA is really going out on a limb there since doing that would get the school's ass in a Title IX sling.
 
2012-07-23 10:43:52 AM

Nabb1: The NCAA is really going out on a limb there since doing that would get the school's ass in a Title IX sling.


They could cut men's sports and women's sports equally.
 
2012-07-23 10:44:48 AM

AndreMA: gimmegimme: I was getting really sick of the Paterno defenders whining about the players, even though all of the sensible people were saying that immediate transfer should and would probably be an option.

Because uprooting yourself and moving is completely easy and stress free.

Labeling anyone pointing that out a Paterno defender: 2/10


You live in a dorm room and all of your worldly possessions fit in a box. How hard can it be? And you don't HAVE to move.
 
2012-07-23 10:44:48 AM

Lucubrationist: I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.


You have no idea what you're talking about. PSU wasn't on probation, and didn't have a history of previous violations. They didn't qualify for the program Death Penalty. They could have imposed it for the heck of it, I suppose, but the rules are pretty clear about when it's considered an appropriate use.

In addition, PSU had no standing or political power to "negotiate" for a stick of gum, let alone a lighter sentence. The NCAA was going to do whatever they wanted, and they did. They're going to go back to the days of paying out of pocket for their program (like most other schools) since they can't participate in bowls and their TV deal is likely going into the shredder. They've got to give up $60M out of pocket, and they lose the records and the prestige of their history. Everyone involved will lose their job, end up in jail, or both. There are civil trials to go, conference sanctions still upcoming, and a continued PR campaign that's still severely damaging the school.

Is it enough? Probably not. But to think this is some miscarriage of justice because the school wasn't firebombed from the sky is just silly. PSU didn't win. Football didn't win. Everyone lost.
 
2012-07-23 10:45:50 AM

AndreMA: I'm in no way equating what Sandusky's victims suffered to the damage done to these players, but it seems an brain-dead response: "Sandusky did these horrible things and Paterno covered of for him. Whatever shall we do? I know! let's make a bunch more innocent victims in the whole mess!"


it just seems a bit disingenuous to me to refer to someone who has had his former football team's record adjusted retroactively as "an innocent victim" in light of the reason why.

my HS football team had an entire season vacated one year because they had an ineligible player on the team. he never played a single down yet the rest of the team were "innocent victims" and had their wins stripped.

it's a punishment for the coach - the players, fans and everybody else that matters who really won those games.
 
2012-07-23 10:46:18 AM

kwame: juvandy: I disagree. One of the likely motivations for the coverup was to prevent distractions to the program and maintain the "aura" of PSU as a place that "does things right". Both allowed them to focus on games and get good recruits, when they should have been dealing with a child rapist. They fundamentally prioritized winning at all costs, and a number of children were hurt in the process. That is inexcusable, and the NCAA absolutely did the right thing.

See that word in bold? That's one of several reason why it absolutely was not the right thing to do.

But angry people can now feel like punishment has been meted out, so whoopideedoo.


Your opinion means nothing Kwame. You definitely fark Live Dolls, and you come across as a pedo lover too. That means that you are just another sick fark that no one should ever pay heed to.
 
2012-07-23 10:46:30 AM

LesserEvil: I wonder what Jay Paterno has to say about this....

i.imgur.com



// I found the eye mouths, the lube, the monkeys, and pedo bear. Did I miss anything?
 
2012-07-23 10:46:32 AM
img.gawkerassets.com
 
2012-07-23 10:46:45 AM

WhoIsWillo: Nabb1: The NCAA is really going out on a limb there since doing that would get the school's ass in a Title IX sling.

They could cut men's sports and women's sports equally.


I don't think they could do even that because of a fine on the football program. Unless, of course, football was one of the programs that got the axe. But at most big-time football schools, football is really the only sport that generates significant revenue.
 
2012-07-23 10:47:03 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


Stripping the coaching staff and university of prestige and making an example. 1998 is their first reported failure to stop Sandusky. The main point is that your program will be farked if you allow something like this to happen.
 
2012-07-23 10:47:39 AM

Litterbox: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

Think, McFly.... That move had nothing to do with Sandusky and everything to do with Paterno being removed from the record books for his part in it.


Think, they got away with scapegoating the only person dead and not relevant to this anymore, all while the guilty parties in the coverup go unmentioned, and while not interrupting the revenue stream for the NCAA.

Symbolic punishment is symbolic.
 
2012-07-23 10:47:42 AM

DamnYankees: inert: You're right. There's literally billions of imaginary people who's sports career will be destroyed by this. Maybe even trillions.

No, there won't be. But there might be one, or two. And I think its worth thinking about them.


So you're on the side of the one imaginary person who would have gotten a sports scholarship to Penn State next year, but somehow would have zero chance of going to another school anywhere else in the country and against the side who thinks that when a college deliberately and maliciously covers-up child rape because it feels playing football games is much more important than a few kids getting buttfarked in the showers then that college's sports program at the very least have some major penalties against it, but better still be shut down completely?

This imaginary person must be a family member of yours.
 
2012-07-23 10:47:44 AM

Craptastic: Let's kick 'em out of the Big Ten as well!


mybodyisready.jpg
 
2012-07-23 10:47:52 AM

kwame: juvandy: I disagree. One of the likely motivations for the coverup was to prevent distractions to the program and maintain the "aura" of PSU as a place that "does things right". Both allowed them to focus on games and get good recruits, when they should have been dealing with a child rapist. They fundamentally prioritized winning at all costs, and a number of children were hurt in the process. That is inexcusable, and the NCAA absolutely did the right thing.

See that word in bold? That's one of several reason why it absolutely was not the right thing to do.

But angry people can now feel like punishment has been meted out, so whoopideedoo.


So are you suggesting Paterno covered up child molestation not so much to protect the football program, but rather than protect the child molester?
 
2012-07-23 10:47:55 AM
ll-media.tmz.com
Won't someone besides ME think of the children at Penn State?




/No. I don't think the students are getting punished at all.
//Other than having to watch a mediocre football team for the next decade.
 
2012-07-23 10:47:58 AM

DamnYankees: randomjsa: So if I understand you correctly it simply would not be possible that he could just continue on there as a normal student without the pole vaulting.

Not if she's relying on the scholarship. That's what I'm saying.

To be clear, this is all hypothetical - Penn State wasn't punished in this way, yet.


If you have a scholarship, you keep it. RTFA
 
2012-07-23 10:49:13 AM

Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


It's not. Except for this: The NCAA doesn't have half the authority to actually do what it is doing here, but they hold they keys to college football. This is a case of the jocks taking over the nerds when no one asked them to. The NCAA president is contributing to punishing an entire generation of college students for what four people in the athletic program did.

Is there a reason for sanctions? No. Paterno is dead. Sandusky is in jail. The Penn State board of trustees has been replaced.

So why is the NCAA doing this? Because of the massive amount of skeletons in their own closet. Why not divert your attention from decades of Payola scandals and other corruption that is actually university wide in other schools by acting phony tough on a school who harbored a convicted child molester. There is easy money in that.

Let's see how many other "Academic Integrity Agreements" the NCAA wants other schools to sign when they get caught doing illegal activity. The NCAA got its day in the sun by punishing a group of people who had/have nothing to do with it, after the damage was all done. And they will be applauded for it like they are somehow saving the institution of education in America. After that, they will go right back to the sleazy, ninth-circle-of-hell type willful blindness they have always had about what they are doing to destroy education in America by reducing every academic institution in America to Football commercial.
 
2012-07-23 10:49:21 AM

CliChe Guevara: all while the guilty parties in the coverup go unmentioned,


Unmentioned? Two of them are indicted for perjury and may be spending some hard time behind bars.
 
2012-07-23 10:49:37 AM
Hmmm Big Ten makes it's announcement in about 12 minutes, be interesting to see what it has in store.
 
2012-07-23 10:49:40 AM

urbangirl: DamnYankees: randomjsa: So if I understand you correctly it simply would not be possible that he could just continue on there as a normal student without the pole vaulting.

Not if she's relying on the scholarship. That's what I'm saying.

To be clear, this is all hypothetical - Penn State wasn't punished in this way, yet.

If you have a scholarship, you keep it. RTFA


Yes, I know. And I'm glad for that. I was responding to someone who wanted the punishment to be the destruction of all sports at Penn State.
 
2012-07-23 10:49:51 AM

hdhale: The students get punished because a major revenue stream for the institution will no longer be a major revenue stream.


Yawn. Too big to fail.

Honestly, PSU fans are still acting like they're the victims. That isn't really going to lower the intensity of the flames. If you're still complaining, you're providing a running justification that Penn State hasn't been punished enough.

The ironic thing is that the drowned-out murmurs of the athletic department itself (what's left of it, anyway) are more accepting of the penalties. I think they get it more than the idiots here.
 
2012-07-23 10:50:20 AM

brobdiggy: Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


Slippery slope logic. If you say something now instead of covering it up for 10+ years, you won't have to vacate 10+ years of wins. Pretty simple huh?
 
2012-07-23 10:50:23 AM

R.A.Danny: This is the winner?


Done in one
 
2012-07-23 10:50:25 AM

angryjd: The NCAA doesn't have half the authority to actually do what it is doing here,


It seems like the opposite of this is true.
 
2012-07-23 10:51:28 AM
Despite my initial reaction, this thread has been more interesting than I would have expected. Learning things about NCAA.
 
2012-07-23 10:51:29 AM

PlatinumDragon:
//you don't want to know what I'd do to Vatican City in my imagination


(Alyx Vance): "We don't go to Vatican City."
 
2012-07-23 10:51:38 AM

AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.


Will the players be allowed to transfer?

DNRTFA
 
2012-07-23 10:51:51 AM

angryjd: Is there a reason for sanctions? No. Paterno is dead. Sandusky is in jail. The Penn State board of trustees has been replaced.


You mean like the guy they just put in that not only expected no sanctions, but actually an APOLOGY for the way Penn State had been treated?

The culture there is toxic, and they would do this again in a minute if they thought it would make them more competitive.
 
2012-07-23 10:51:55 AM
dlp211:

Don't break the rules. Don't act like these 'kids' aren't informed of the rules and what is right and wrong. Besides are you really hurt by vacating wins? It's a symbolic gesture, and in this case will harm only one persons reputation, JoePa.

If you were a fan of a sports team, you'd already know the answer to the question.

But consider this...

"Bounty Gate". What if Roger Goodell issued his punishment to the Saints and tacked on that the Saints had to vacate wins from their Super Bowl Championship season, including the Super Bowl itself.

Sound just? Would you be as emotionally invested in the product in the future?
 
2012-07-23 10:51:58 AM

amundb: Zombie Paterno must pay!

Reanimate him then kill him again!


That is what estates are for. He will be paying into the civil suits regardless of state of animation...
 
2012-07-23 10:52:04 AM

brobdiggy: Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


The penalties are for the cover up, not Sandusky's acts.

Had Penn State officials pursued the Sandusky situation diligently when it first occurred then I would imagine Penn State would have never received any kind of penalty at any point. That would have been just been a case of one person committing a criminal act, the administration and law enforcement investigating, leading that one person to jail. You know, what should have happened in the first place. Which is why it's still hard to believe supposedly smart people in the administration could ever possibly think that covering it up would be a good option.
 
2012-07-23 10:52:25 AM

angryjd: Is there a reason for sanctions? No. Paterno is dead. Sandusky is in jail. The Penn State board of trustees has been replaced.

So why is the NCAA doing this? Because of the massive amount of skeletons in their own closet. Why not divert your attention from decades of Payola scandals and other corruption that is actually university wide in other schools by acting phony tough on a school who harbored a convicted child molester. There is easy
money in that.


It couldn't possibly be about sending a message to other universities and atheletics programs, that if you do this kind of crap for your legacy, that legacy will be destroyed.
 
2012-07-23 10:52:37 AM

PlatinumDragon: From a redlit thread yesterday, some real meat for the "Joe Pa's image is still real to me" crowd - try this:

1) Offer all students and faculty transfers to other schools, with all costs covered by whatever PSU has in assets.

2) Raze the entire campus.

3) Salt the earth the campus once stood upon.

4) Put Joe Paterno's statue in the middle of this field of woe and let it stand there as a reminder to all other organizations of what will happen if a child rapist is allowed to operate under official protection.

/there you go psu apologists - enjoy your shiny over-the-top suggestion to lambaste
//you don't want to know what I'd do to Vatican City in my imagination


5) Ban football nation wide.
 
2012-07-23 10:52:43 AM

angryjd: So why is the NCAA doing this? Because of the massive amount of skeletons in their own closet. Why not divert your attention from decades of Payola scandals and other corruption that is actually university wide in other schools by acting phony tough on a school who harbored a convicted child molester. There is easy money in that.


Wow, folks, these punishments are phony. Someone get the NCAA on the phone and tell them to come back with something real.
 
2012-07-23 10:52:45 AM

dragonchild: Yawn. Too big to fail.

Honestly, PSU fans are still acting like they're the victims. That isn't really going to lower the intensity of the flames. If you're still complaining, you're providing a running justification that Penn State hasn't been punished enough.


THIS.
 
2012-07-23 10:53:04 AM
I don't want to hear about what's fair and what's not fair to the PSU players. So much was done to protect the football program that a pedophile was allowed to roam free.

Don't talk to me about fair. Know what's not fair? Being sexually abused by someone you trust.
 
2012-07-23 10:53:16 AM

angryjd: The NCAA doesn't have half the authority to actually do what it is doing here,


you realize that Penn State violated NCAA rules that had nothing to do with the Sandusky situation?
 
2012-07-23 10:53:45 AM
This is it? This is all that's happening to Penn State? This is supposed to make them wish they'd gotten hit with the death penalty instead? Bullshiat.

Dull Cow Eyes: In some ways, this result is better than a temporary death penalty. Why? Cause Penn State fans can watch their over-glorified overrated sports spectacle suck balls the next few years.


As opposed to the 'suck balls for the next 25 years' that we were looking for. Slap on the farking wrist.
 
2012-07-23 10:53:48 AM

juvandy: The players and students aren't being penalized. The players can transfer and play immediately. Even if they don't, they will still be able to play next year and will still be able to be drafted on the basis of their own merit. That's better than the death penalty, which would have forced them to transfer or quit.

The students/alumni aren't strongly penalized other than not being able to watch as good a team as they could. $60 mil isn't that much to a program with a 100,000 seat stadium capacity. At $60 per seat, they'd make all the money back in 10 games.


They even said in TFA that $60 M was equal to one year of football revenue. Now that football revenue for one year goes to helping abused children - and none of it can be spent on University programs because the University has proven it can't be trusted. I like that stipulation personally.
 
dls
2012-07-23 10:54:10 AM

kwame: But angry people can now feel like punishment has been meted out, so whoopideedoo.


Eh. Coverups are really motivated by one thing: fear. Whatever motivated it (possible tarnishing of reputations, avoiding the responsibility of making reparations, avoiding having to confront a sick farker and what he could do) doesn't change the fact that they felt compelled to obfuscate the path to truth as much as possible. If the coverups go back as far as 1998, then I think vacating the wins, while ringing certainly hollow, is as strong a message as the the NCAA can send that allowing people to do bad things on your watch probably isn't a good idea, regardless of the motivation.
 
2012-07-23 10:54:42 AM

WhyteRaven74: angryjd: The NCAA doesn't have half the authority to actually do what it is doing here,

you realize that Penn State violated NCAA rules that had nothing to do with the Sandusky situation?


Which are?
 
2012-07-23 10:54:51 AM

Gosling: Slap on the farking wrist.


Who's wrist? Seriously, I don't understand this sentiment. Joe Paterno is dead, Jerry Sandusky is in jail and all the administrators involved have been fired. Who's wrist did you want the NCAA to slap, exactly?
 
2012-07-23 10:55:11 AM
What it does come down to, and I suppose you could all this justice, is that the guy partially responsible for covering it up was penalized coaching wins, effectively scrubbing his name from the top of the record book. It also happens to punish players who will feel like their four years in college and bowl wins and everything else was for naught. The money is a drop in the bucket. Scholarships, haha this program is already totally f*cked for the foreseeable future - no one will want to go to Rape Boys State University.

And like I said, it was an easy way for the NCAA to prove its effectiveness without having to do jack sh*t.
 
2012-07-23 10:55:59 AM

kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.


Who controls the past controls the future.
Who controls the present controls the past.

/down the memory hole.
//stop by any of the innumerable PSU threads over the past week or so for the two-minute hate of your choice.
 
2012-07-23 10:56:25 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


Well, there's evidence that Paterno and the football program more or less acted "by their own rules" when it came to disciplining players for academic and athletic issues. If other universities are holding their players accountable to their actions on the field and in the classroom while PSU is not, then they're playing by a different set of standards.

However, that's not the real reason for the 14 years vacation. The real thing is to permanently damage Joe Paterno's reputation as a coach. He was the winningest coach in Div. I history. Now he's not even close to the top of that list.
 
2012-07-23 10:56:38 AM
Obama just told Paterno "All time wins record? You didn't build that."
 
2012-07-23 10:56:39 AM

You Are All Sheep: cameroncrazy1984: mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.

Oh yeah, just pretend that a 14 year cover-up never happened.

Oh come on, they were kids that had never been shown any love in their lives. What he was doing is showing what love is like when you become an adult.

Am I doing it right?


I hope that that kind of snarkiness earns you bannination. You are a disgusting excuse for a human, you know that?
 
2012-07-23 10:57:03 AM

clipperbox: i wish they could revive joe pa and give him the news


Don't worry, he knows. They get ESPN in Hell.
 
2012-07-23 10:57:05 AM

hdhale: my lip balm addiction: Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..

How did the students get punished? The athletes can transfer and the academic kids can still watch Saturday afternoon football, just a shiatty team now. So what "punishment" did the kids receive?

/did I just respond to a troll?

The students get punished because a major revenue stream for the institution will no longer be a major revenue stream. Combine that with cuts in state and Federal funding, and reductions in donations from alumni and others that have happened everywhere because of the crappy economy and the next sound you hear will be that of crying from the library when they are told about the staff cuts and freezes in salary. Of course the fat ass tenured Classics professor across campus will shuffle in his chair a bit and make "hurumph, they should eliminates athletics anyway" noises, but perhaps he might get a bit more upset when he finds out that he has to share a secretary with several more professors now and may end up making his own copies. The dorms won't be a nice, and the computers in the computer lab won't be as new and that new Sciences Building won't get built any time soon--point is that when you cut funding it hurts in all sorts of little and big ways.


Be thankful, If I had my way:

doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com


Followed by

images.travelpod.com

And then for good measure

www.ultimatewasher.com

Penn State covered up child molestation, and they are concerned with wins and statues? Obviously, good people don't live there.
 
2012-07-23 10:57:12 AM

ShereKhan: Breaking News: The NCAA also ordered Penn State to change their mascot
[i2.kym-cdn.com image 400x648]


i1234.photobucket.com

Go Ped State!!!
 
2012-07-23 10:57:17 AM

Gosling: This is it? This is all that's happening to Penn State? This is supposed to make them wish they'd gotten hit with the death penalty instead? Bullshi


What are you talking about? This will destroy Penn State football for probably a decade, if they are lucky. Did you want them to burn down the stadium? The death penalty would have gotten them off lightly and they could have returned a year later washed up and with the bruises cleared. Now they are just going to be humiliated for a long time.

I expect Penn State games this year should provide a lot of laughs though.
 
2012-07-23 10:57:35 AM

DamnYankees: bulldg4life: basemetal: Not even close to a PSU fan, but why are you punishing the players that had nothing to do with this?

The players have the option to transfer free of penalty or finish out their schooling free of charge.

But are other schools obliged to take them? Just curious.


No, but if you are a team in the running for a naitonal championship, and your options are "Untested high school recruit" and "Junior All American from Penn State that wants the fark out of there" you're going to take the All American.
 
2012-07-23 10:57:40 AM
I'm good with the penalties dished out to PSU. It spells the virtual death of their program for a decade or so, maybe longer. Joe Paterno's legacy is now officially what it should be; a coach who hung on too long, wanting to win at whatever cost.

Outside of the Sandusky victims, the kids I feel sorry for are the kids at Iowa, Indiana, Northwestern, where ever, that were just good enough to get a scholarship on a team that traditionally isn't the best in the league. A few of them are going to see their scholarships slip away. They will be replaced by PSU stars. At the very least, that, "Yeah kid, you got some talent and we are light in the right tackle slot - you can start at right tackle." now means, "Uh, we picked up Jones from Penn State. Looks like you are fighting it out with Jackson for 2nd or 3rd string." Not end of the world shiat, I know. Just a thought I had.

/disclosure, U of I alumni.
 
2012-07-23 10:57:54 AM

Gosling: This is supposed to make them wish they'd gotten hit with the death penalty instead? Bullshiat


Their football scholarships are being slashed, they'll be fielding what amounts to a Division II squad, if even that much, for a few years. They're going to be the doormat of the Big 10.

liam76: Which are?


The big one that caught my eye, was that football players were not subject to the same rules of discipline as other students at Penn State. And not only that, the athletic director new about it. So you have the rule infraction plus a lack of institutional control.
 
2012-07-23 10:58:15 AM

my lip balm addiction: You Are All Sheep: cameroncrazy1984: mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.

Oh yeah, just pretend that a 14 year cover-up never happened.

Oh come on, they were kids that had never been shown any love in their lives. What he was doing is showing what love is like when you become an adult.

Am I doing it right?

I hope that that kind of snarkiness earns you bannination. You are a disgusting excuse for a human, you know that?


Bannination for that?? Really?
 
2012-07-23 10:58:23 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


Do you think Joe Paterno helped Penn State win a few games? Because if you do, the amount of wins vacated should date back to his first. And it still wouldn't be justice. Weasel.
 
2012-07-23 10:58:26 AM

mister aj: One man touches a kid in his special place, and that means that you can:

- Travel back in time, pretend some wins never happened
- Destroy an entire university
- Take away scholarships from people that need them
- Taint the reputations of the best of the student body, and possibly destroy their future football careers

Yup, that's justice.


And this is why they got away with it for 14 years. Be glad the masses don't seem to connect the dots. This program was touted as the one that proved you could run an honorable, honest, trustworthy college football program that did not corrupt players, faculty or coaches. It was different, well it is different all right it's corruption ran to kiddie rape, not player pay offs.

This case proves that football can not be a force for good, it is not a good influence on youth, on society, and the institutions that harbor it. No public money, facility, or institution should be allowed to support football. All football programs at State run Universities, Colleges, and High Schools should be terminated.

If you want a football program then you need to run it as a private institution, with private facilities, and private funds.
 
2012-07-23 10:58:32 AM

This text is now purple: austin_millbarge: Im not trying to bust your balls, you obviously have good intentions with your comment. But to me it reflects an attitude that is a cancer on this nation. People need to stop worshipping sports teams and sports figures.

People need to seriously research what popular culture followed prior to sports teams and figures.

Dueling dropped dramatically once football caught on in the South.


Hahaha. I liked that.

High School/College/Pro Sports are about the only things left that can bring the political sides together. Get a Dem and a Repub in the same room and about the only thing they can agree on is sports. It's a very unifying. If you fark with that there will be another Civil War within 5 years. That's why we had the first one. There was no sports on the weekend to distract people. And yes, it is a little cancerous at times but that's the way we like it.
 
2012-07-23 10:58:51 AM

Endive Wombat: I would imagine most of the star players will get gobbled up very quickly.


ThatGuyGreg: Don't worry, the other colleges' recruiters are already making calls.


Yeah, the stars will be fine, but I'm thinking about the 2nd tier guys who probably aren't going to have many options. That realistically gives them like a week or two to decide. Although they should have at least thought about well before now.
 
2012-07-23 10:59:30 AM
My argument with this is, if the NCAA really wanted to make Joe Paterno an unperson, they should have had Penn State vacate every win from all 46 seasons that Paterno was head coach, including both national championships. And they could've used the excuse that Jerry Sandusky was on the Penn State coaching staff for most of Paterno's career.
 
2012-07-23 10:59:44 AM

Marine1: However, that's not the real reason for the 14 years vacation. The real thing is to permanently damage Joe Paterno's reputation as a coach. He was the winningest coach in Div. I history. Now he's not even close to the top of that list.


I have never once, in my entire life, heard someone actually apply a vacated win to a sports argument in casual conversation. I have never once, in my entire life, heard someone say 'Now hang on, that win was vacated, you can't bring up that game'. This is not going to stop people from putting Paterno at top of the wins list anyway.
 
2012-07-23 10:59:49 AM

Confabulat: This will destroy Penn State football for probably a decade,


And the Big 10 is going to levy its own sanctions. Which should be announced any minute now.
 
2012-07-23 11:00:45 AM

This text is now purple: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Baz the Spaz: The next fun will be to see if the Department of Education has the balls to hit Penn State with huge fines for failure to report the crimes under the Clery Act.

Unless i'm mistaken, the severest punishment under the act is the suspension of access to any student financial aid programs.

If 14 years worth of covering up a child rapist at the university doesn't warrant the severest punishment, i'm really not sure what would be.

Illinois has an unrepentant terrorist on their faculty.
Stanford has a notorious history of human-rights abuses.
Tuskegee gave syphilis to people for 25 years and refused to treat them.
Citadel raised an army of sedition.
West Point was commanded by a traitor.

All of those schools receive federal funding.


The Clery act was signed into law in 1990. If you would care to point out anything that these universities have done to violate it since then, you might have a point.
 
2012-07-23 11:00:49 AM
I'd love to follow this thread but I can't hear any of you over the sound of Matt Millen crying.
 
2012-07-23 11:01:03 AM
Big 10 does jack crap other than taking away their split of conference bowl money
 
2012-07-23 11:01:26 AM
My wife is an insane UNC fan (probably one of the reasons we still live in Chapel Hill). She was saying on Saturday, basically because of presumed results coming down to Penn State, two players signed letters of intent at Carolina.

I'm wondering just how fast more rats will leave that sinking ship.
 
2012-07-23 11:01:26 AM

R.A.Danny: Tommy Moo: Vacating wins has to be the dumbest punishment ever conceived.

It ruins JoePa's record. While that seems trifling now that he is dead, he was all about his legacy.


Yeah, but everyone will always know who is "really" the winningest coach. The stat will never be reported anywhere without an asterisk and a footnote reminding readers that "Oh by the way of course it was really Paterno except for that whole kiddie rape thing."
 
2012-07-23 11:01:28 AM

Minarets: I just want to point out that I checked the Wikipedia entry for the all time coaching wins record around 8:30 and Paterno's record had already been corrected.


I guess Bobby Bowden got up early.
 
2012-07-23 11:01:57 AM
Not sure who I love more right now...Juvandy or subby.
 
2012-07-23 11:02:09 AM
And soon....the lawsuits

That is going to bankrupt PSU...i cannot wait.

/did the Paternos find the real pedophiles yet?
 
2012-07-23 11:02:55 AM

Tommy Moo: Yeah, but everyone will always know who is "really" the winningest coach. The stat will never be reported anywhere without an asterisk and a footnote reminding readers that "Oh by the way of course it was really Paterno except for that whole kiddie rape thing."


Well they can't dig up the body and kick him in the old man balls. This is what they got.
 
2012-07-23 11:02:59 AM

Gosling: This is not going to stop people from putting Paterno at top of the wins list anyway.


You don't know many FSU fans, do you?
 
2012-07-23 11:03:08 AM
That means Joe Pa's last win was the 1997 Citrus Bowl, with Mike Mcquerey as his starting QB.
 
2012-07-23 11:03:13 AM

Gosling: Marine1: However, that's not the real reason for the 14 years vacation. The real thing is to permanently damage Joe Paterno's reputation as a coach. He was the winningest coach in Div. I history. Now he's not even close to the top of that list.

I have never once, in my entire life, heard someone actually apply a vacated win to a sports argument in casual conversation. I have never once, in my entire life, heard someone say 'Now hang on, that win was vacated, you can't bring up that game'. This is not going to stop people from putting Paterno at top of the wins list anyway.


It will for me. The program was crooked. If Gary Pinkel were to look the other way when successful coaches were raping boys to save the reputation of the program and keep that particular talent available, I'd consider the wins my university got in that time period worthless. The other teams played by the rules. You can't ignore massive problems just to keep winning.
 
2012-07-23 11:03:35 AM

Wrongo: I'm good with the penalties dished out to PSU. It spells the virtual death of their program for a decade or so, maybe longer. Joe Paterno's legacy is now officially what it should be; a coach who hung on too long, wanting to win at whatever cost.

Outside of the Sandusky victims, the kids I feel sorry for are the kids at Iowa, Indiana, Northwestern, where ever, that were just good enough to get a scholarship on a team that traditionally isn't the best in the league. A few of them are going to see their scholarships slip away. They will be replaced by PSU stars. At the very least, that, "Yeah kid, you got some talent and we are light in the right tackle slot - you can start at right tackle." now means, "Uh, we picked up Jones from Penn State. Looks like you are fighting it out with Jackson for 2nd or 3rd string." Not end of the world shiat, I know. Just a thought I had.

/disclosure, U of I alumni.


Wouldn't sweat that too hard, PSU didn't have many stars to give away as of last season.

B10 sanctions: PSU forfeits the next 4 years share of B10 bowl revenue; not eligible for conference championship game.
 
2012-07-23 11:03:59 AM
If they just got rid of the educational programs, they'd have more money to dedicate to important things like athletics.
 
2012-07-23 11:04:01 AM

Nana's Vibrator: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

Do you think Joe Paterno helped Penn State win a few games? Because if you do, the amount of wins vacated should date back to his first. And it still wouldn't be justice. Weasel.


That's my argument. Just like when Penn State fired Paterno before all the facts came out, this smells so much like a CYA move, that the NCAA was so pressured to do something by all the witch hunters who didn't know who Sandusky was before the scandal broke...and now they can point to this highly punitive but still half-assed move and say, "Happy now?"

/Unfortunately, said witch hunters won't be.
 
2012-07-23 11:04:11 AM
USC vacated a National Championship. This punishment is about twice as harsh as what USC got when Reggie Bush took some money while he played at USC. Both schools will recover.
 
2012-07-23 11:04:30 AM

draa: This text is now purple: austin_millbarge: Im not trying to bust your balls, you obviously have good intentions with your comment. But to me it reflects an attitude that is a cancer on this nation. People need to stop worshipping sports teams and sports figures.

People need to seriously research what popular culture followed prior to sports teams and figures.

Dueling dropped dramatically once football caught on in the South.

Hahaha. I liked that.

High School/College/Pro Sports are about the only things left that can bring the political sides together. Get a Dem and a Repub in the same room and about the only thing they can agree on is sports. It's a very unifying. If you fark with that there will be another Civil War within 5 years. That's why we had the first one. There was no sports on the weekend to distract people. And yes, it is a little cancerous at times but that's the way we like it.


A little cancerous, from where I'm sitting this ruling is not harsh enough. It still protects the program, it allows the program to survive and resume operations in 5 years. It gives them a slap on the wrist monetary fine and a slap on the wrist other penalties.

To me justice would have been 60 million for 14 years, the length of time the abuse happened, all of Jo Pa's record expunged, and no scholarships for 5 years. This ruling is just a corrupt body, NCAA, protecting a corrupt school from the logical consequences of their actions.

I hope Penn State loses trillions of dollars in civil court.
 
2012-07-23 11:04:32 AM

hdhale: bdub77: OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.

Michigan got tagged back during the "Rich Rod" era for too much practice time. They lost prctice time as a result and otherwise got slapped on the wrist.

As I've stated before elsewhere, I'm rapidly tiring of college athletics and the dartboard and battle ax approach to punishment of programs. Sure I can root for the University of Kentucky to win another NCAA Men's basketball title this year, and get emotionally invested in the outcome, but increasingly I feel like any program at any moment can have all its wins taken away and be told they never happened because a starting player talked to an agent 5 fives ago and got money for a nice dinner and a pair of shoes. That's not even professional wrestling. It's a farce. Why waste my time?


Maybe the meatheaded jocks you idolize should consider following the rules.

I realize the burden may be high, needing to learn to read and all... but come on. It isn't like the shiat is a mysterious handshake of the stonecutters or something. It's in a little book, they give out for free.
 
2012-07-23 11:04:46 AM
Nevermind the fact the school deserved a punishment.

Does anyone find it weird a sporting authority has the ability to dole out punishment like this? This is how seriously we take sports? A bunch of guys who regulate how people score in a football game punish an organization for child molestation.
 
2012-07-23 11:04:59 AM
The death penalty should have been on the table. The NCAA went light.
 
2012-07-23 11:05:02 AM

asmodeus224:

/did the Paternos find the real pedophiles yet?


Funny.
 
2012-07-23 11:05:35 AM

draa: This text is now purple: austin_millbarge: Im not trying to bust your balls, you obviously have good intentions with your comment. But to me it reflects an attitude that is a cancer on this nation. People need to stop worshipping sports teams and sports figures.

People need to seriously research what popular culture followed prior to sports teams and figures.

Dueling dropped dramatically once football caught on in the South.

Hahaha. I liked that.

High School/College/Pro Sports are about the only things left that can bring the political sides together. Get a Dem and a Repub in the same room and about the only thing they can agree on is sports. It's a very unifying. If you fark with that there will be another Civil War within 5 years. That's why we had the first one. There was no sports on the weekend to distract people. And yes, it is a little cancerous at times but that's the way we like it.


As I said in another thread: All of you who are Christians (especially the Evangelical "The Bible is truth and evolution is a lie" folks) who don't get the culture at Penn State...welcome to how atheists view you.
 
2012-07-23 11:06:06 AM

topcon: A bunch of guys who regulate how people score in a football game punish an organization for child molestation.


Two of the three alive suspects are under indictment. That's coming too. The law moves a bit slower than the NCAA, well sometimes.
 
2012-07-23 11:06:23 AM
It does seem that many Penn State supporters are still more concerned with football than with child rape.
 
2012-07-23 11:06:35 AM

dragonchild: hdhale: The students get punished because a major revenue stream for the institution will no longer be a major revenue stream.

Yawn. Too big to fail.

Honestly, PSU fans are still acting like they're the victims. That isn't really going to lower the intensity of the flames. If you're still complaining, you're providing a running justification that Penn State hasn't been punished enough.

The ironic thing is that the drowned-out murmurs of the athletic department itself (what's left of it, anyway) are more accepting of the penalties. I think they get it more than the idiots here.


Not "too big to fail", the argument was whether or not the students at Penn State were being punished right along with the Paterno and company and the answer is without qualification, yes, both the students on the team, and the students who couldn't tell you how to get to the football stadium without a map.

If it's really "just sports" and "no big deal" then why aren't student athletes allowed to make some money on the side selling autographs? When I went to UK, I'd have cheerfully sold my autograph (if anyone wanted it...since I was nobody, likely not, but as an example) and guess what? I could have done so, perfectly legally and without putting UK at risk for NCAA sanctions. Had one of the student athletes done so and gotten caught...ouch. The answer is because it is a big deal.

Oh and...when you are standing before a committee of suits who are you're judge, jury and executor, it's not a good to flip them the bird. Of course the football program isn't going to say anything and take the penalties. What I would have liked to have seen is the administrators at Penn State ask a whole lot more questions and insist on justice, not randomness. They didn't appear to do anything of the sort.
 
2012-07-23 11:07:03 AM

CognaciousThunk: PSU forfeits the next 4 years share of B10 bowl revenue;


Anyone say about how much money that is?
 
2012-07-23 11:07:05 AM

JerseyTim: Congratulations to Bobby Bowden, the retroactive all time wins leader! Oh, and good job to that Robertson guy from the black school too.- Willard Mitt Romney (@MlTTR0MNEY) July 23, 2012


Thank god that's not the actual Romney account.
 
2012-07-23 11:07:27 AM

DamnYankees: Who's wrist did you want the NCAA to slap, exactly?


Everyone in the country who would be the next Mike McQueary. Pre-emptively. Don't like it? Don't watch football. Complain and you just proved their point.

Fear of damage to the football team overruled his sense of morality, if he had one in the first place. Since the morality of football coaches can't be counted on, the NCAA is making football fear its wrath instead. Is it fair? It doesn't matter. It's football. The NCAA has unlimited authority. They really only have checks and balances where they say they do. This is a special case because in any case where football is weighed against sexual abuse, "fair" isn't on the motherfarking radar.

It's like this -- I'm at a pickup softball game and we're ahead a couple runs when a few on our team have to leave because they're doctors and got called in by ER. Them leaving means we have to forfeit, even though I had jack shiat to do with their situation and we were ahead. Their job -- doing the right thing -- is a higher priority. So they leave, and we lose. Is it fair? No, but who gives a fark?? Explain it to the dying patients that our game is more important than their lives! I'd have to be a motherfarking pants-on-head retarded selfish spoiled SICKO to demand these guys ignore their professional and moral responsibilities over a goddamned game. I'd have to be, but thankfully I'm not because I'm not a PedoState Shiattney Lion fan so I eat the loss and move on. There are some things in life that are more important than fairness.
 
2012-07-23 11:07:43 AM

CognaciousThunk: B10 sanctions: PSU forfeits the next 4 years share of B10 bowl revenue; not eligible for conference championship game.


The source I have says that the bowl revenue will likely amount to about $13 million and will also be donated to children's charities.
 
2012-07-23 11:07:59 AM
I don't think the vacating the wins is necessarily bullsh*t because the fantasy we all have about athletic programs is that they are supposed to build character through discipline and blah blah blah (even though the truth is it's a great source of money for the college or university). A number of people involved in the running of the football program at Penn State, including Joe Paterno, refused to act ethically and enabled child abuse through their decisions to keep this from getting out. Whatever happens to the football program at Penn State is likely to not be enough.

One part about this that I'm really upset about is that people who genuinely had nothing to do with any of this are going to be negatively affected. Donations to the school are going to all but disappear, student enrollment is going to drop, and a fine educational institution is going to be irrevocably damaged because of the football program. Collaborative research projects with Penn State programs are probably going to diminish to some degree as the mere NAME of Penn State is now tarnished as a result of this silly tradition our country has with marrying education with athletics under one institution. Students, professors, and alumni who had dick all to do with the football program are going to get hurt. I'm curious to see how the next crop of graduates do in the job market, as well.

But then, law of unintended consequences. It is a really sh*tty situation all around and even the "right" people to be punished will never be punished appropriately to match the scope of this scandal.
 
2012-07-23 11:09:15 AM

hdhale: dlp211:

Don't break the rules. Don't act like these 'kids' aren't informed of the rules and what is right and wrong. Besides are you really hurt by vacating wins? It's a symbolic gesture, and in this case will harm only one persons reputation, JoePa.

If you were a fan of a sports team, you'd already know the answer to the question.

But consider this...

"Bounty Gate". What if Roger Goodell issued his punishment to the Saints and tacked on that the Saints had to vacate wins from their Super Bowl Championship season, including the Super Bowl itself.

Sound just? Would you be as emotionally invested in the product in the future?


As a huge sports fan of multiple teams, my reaction is "meh". What does it matter, I got to see it while it happened, if someone wants to erase it from the history books with an asterisk to why it is gone, no skin of my back. Seriously, you getting hung up on the wrong things. There is always next year.
 
2012-07-23 11:09:21 AM

WhyteRaven74: CognaciousThunk: PSU forfeits the next 4 years share of B10 bowl revenue;

Anyone say about how much money that is?


23 million a year.
 
2012-07-23 11:09:43 AM
I know I'm late to come and say this (and it's probably already been said), but allow me to clarify the reduction in scholarships:

This is strictly a limit on football scholarships. The money in the scholarship fund that was earmarked for these will simply go to other prospective students. Overall, the same amount of scholarship money will be used during this period like usual, it just means 10/20 scholarships will not be going to football.
 
2012-07-23 11:09:44 AM

Kome: Donations to the school are going to all but disappear


PSU just ended their 2nd most successful fiscal year for donations with $208m. If anything, I'm assuming their donations have increased because of this.
 
2012-07-23 11:10:00 AM
This was bullshiat weak sauce and the NCAA has lost all legitimacy in my eyes because of it.

National Child Abuse Association.
 
2012-07-23 11:10:07 AM

WhyteRaven74: Their football scholarships are being slashed, they'll be fielding what amounts to a Division II squad, if even that much, for a few years. They're going to be the doormat of the Big 10.


I'm using you as a representative of the group.

The issue to me is not whether Penn State wins or loses. The issue to me is that Penn State football, as an institution, is and was so utterly powerful on campus that these acts were allowed to continue for as long as they did. The thing I wanted to have happen was for Penn State football, as an institution, to be made less powerful on campus, and the only possible way to make that happen is to force Penn State to stop playing football.

Their win-loss record is completely, utterly irrelevant. The Paterno faithful will show up, win or lose, pay their money, pack the stadium, and sing his praises regardless of what happens to the program. The 'WE ARE' chanting will continue unabated. They'll make the money back. They'll still be able to recruit locally, and Pennsylvania always has a strong high school crop of players. The death penalty would have forced them to actually farking reflect, to find other pursuits on campus, to maybe find something that they like more than football. Enough Penn State fans finding an on-campus pursuit that they prefer to football would have weakened football as an institution. That will now not happen.

Anything that permits the Cult of Paterno to continue to play football is not strong enough to weaken the institution of Penn State football, and is therefore not strong enough period.
 
2012-07-23 11:10:36 AM
PSU student reaction video being showed on ESPN right now.

That's just an awkward video to watch
 
2012-07-23 11:10:40 AM
Good
 
2012-07-23 11:10:46 AM

professorkowalski: 23 million a year.


That's going to hurt.
 
2012-07-23 11:10:52 AM

CognaciousThunk: I'd love to follow this thread but I can't hear any of you over the sound of Matt Millen crying.


You Bastard.


/him, not you
//millen sucks
 
2012-07-23 11:11:01 AM

space_cowgirl: I'm thinking we need some perspective on this. It's unfortunate that the current players are being affected, but that's not the NCAA's fault. That's Jerry Sandusky's fault. And Joe Paterno's. And Tim Curley's. Point the finger at them. One call to the police back in 98 would have caused a scandal, but they would have recovered, and most likely would have been hailed as heroes for bringing a child rapist to justice.

Children were raped while the PSU athletic program chose to look the other way, and we're whining about whether a kid gets to play football as his first-choice school. Really?


Clearly you do not understand what's really important in life.
 
2012-07-23 11:12:34 AM

WhyteRaven74: That's going to hurt.


Not really. Not really. Between the endowment and donations on a yearly basic, 23 million isn't as much as it seems.
 
2012-07-23 11:12:38 AM

ScouserDuck: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Bowls give you money and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.


It's not just that, although it is that too. It's about punishing the people who looked the other way and allowed this to happen. It takes away what they cared so much about that they were willing to avoid taking proper action. It ensures that that behavior is not rewarded and sends a message to all those in the future who might say to themselves, "Let's just keep this hush hush, we don't want to bring any negative publicity to our school or revenue generating program." that this type of inaction will never be worth it, and that the ONLY acceptable option is to report even suspected wrongdoing to the proper authorities.
 
2012-07-23 11:12:51 AM
So SMU gets the "death penalty" for paying off players, but PSU can have Pedobear on their coaching staff and is allowed to continue playing football.

Yeah...

I'm going to go punch a wall now.
 
2012-07-23 11:12:55 AM

bulldg4life: PSU student reaction video being showed on ESPN right now.

That's just an awkward video to watch


How are they taking it?
 
2012-07-23 11:13:11 AM

CheekyMonkey: space_cowgirl: I'm thinking we need some perspective on this. It's unfortunate that the current players are being affected, but that's not the NCAA's fault. That's Jerry Sandusky's fault. And Joe Paterno's. And Tim Curley's. Point the finger at them. One call to the police back in 98 would have caused a scandal, but they would have recovered, and most likely would have been hailed as heroes for bringing a child rapist to justice.

Children were raped while the PSU athletic program chose to look the other way, and we're whining about whether a kid gets to play football as his first-choice school. Really?

Clearly you do not understand what's really important in life.


To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their brainwashed team supporters?
 
2012-07-23 11:13:19 AM

Publikwerks:
Penn State covered up child molestation, and they are concerned with wins and statues? Obviously, good people don't live there.


A-farking-men is what part of me says. The other part tells me that the people on Penn State's side just don't know how to cope with this. It's almost as if someone needs to put them in a room and make every response begin with

"I understand what happened and how Penn State failed and I am truly sory for that. I am still a Penn State student/alumni/employee/fan and I am not a pedophile, nor do I promote or facilitate pedophila, nor do I hold football or any group in higher esteem than any other group, particulalry the academics institutions. I am doing everything I can to help restore Penn State to an acceptable standing in our community by participating in the academic process and abiding by laws and reaching out to where help is needed."

To me, any other type of response (whaa dey was mean to my footbaw team!) just reads as support for pedophilia and lawlessness and treating irresponsible enablers like gods who can do no wrong, because they believe raping children is acceptable. There are about 50 of those posts in this thread alone.
 
2012-07-23 11:14:17 AM

bulldg4life: Kome: Donations to the school are going to all but disappear

PSU just ended their 2nd most successful fiscal year for donations with $208m. If anything, I'm assuming their donations have increased because of this.


That's a distinct possibility, and one I hadn't considered. I guess I was being a little to knee-jerky in my reaction about how this kind of punishment to the university will affect the students, graduates, staff and faculty who had absolutely nothing to do with anything. I'll have to keep that part of me in check.
 
2012-07-23 11:15:05 AM

HeWhoHasNoName: This was bullshiat weak sauce and the NCAA has lost all legitimacy in my eyes because of it.

National Child Abuse Association.


Honsetly, I didn't think we would see this. NCAA has sucked ass for years so I'm happy they were at least paying attention to the big wigs in college sports and not just some poor kid getting his "free stuff" too.
 
2012-07-23 11:15:10 AM

Void_Beavis: So SMU gets the "death penalty" for paying off players, but PSU can have Pedobear on their coaching staff and is allowed to continue playing football.

Yeah...

I'm going to go punch a wall now.


It's probably the closest acknowledgement you'll see that the NCAA is trying to spare the players while still sending the sacred cow to the butcher.
 
2012-07-23 11:15:16 AM

Nabb1: How are they taking it?


There were open mouthed looks or hands covering mouths with audible sighs of shock when they announced the bowl ban.

They cut the video off before it got to the vacating wins part, though.
 
2012-07-23 11:16:47 AM
I just want to know how this is going to affect Ceder Point in Sandusky, Ohio.
 
2012-07-23 11:17:14 AM

bulldg4life: Nabb1: How are they taking it?

There were open mouthed looks or hands covering mouths with audible sighs of shock when they announced the bowl ban.

They cut the video off before it got to the vacating wins part, though.


Why are they shocked? It's not like Penn State was going to be bowl eligible anyway.
 
2012-07-23 11:17:15 AM
And the Big 10 just took all their bowl revenue sharing from them for the next 4 years. The hits just keep on coming.
 
2012-07-23 11:17:25 AM

AndreMA: gimmegimme: I was getting really sick of the Paterno defenders whining about the players, even though all of the sensible people were saying that immediate transfer should and would probably be an option.

Because uprooting yourself and moving is completely easy and stress free.

Labeling anyone pointing that out a Paterno defender: 2/10


If they can't handle going to a new school next year, they can't handle being a college student, playing college level sports, or any of the dozens of real stresses they'll face after college.

None of the students are being victimized, none of the students are being punished. At worst, some are being mildly inconvenienced. That the JoePa defenders are trying to equate 20-year-olds having to fill out some paperwork with 10-year-olds getting farked up the ass by an old man is absolutely disgusting.

And as an aside, the vacated wins do more than punish Paterno, they send a message to other coaches that if they cover up something like this, they will lose the one thing they've spent their lives working for for that they thought nobody could take away: their legacy.
 
2012-07-23 11:18:05 AM

hdhale: Not "too big to fail", the argument was whether or not the students at Penn State were being punished right along with the Paterno and company and the answer is without qualification, yes, both the students on the team, and the students who couldn't tell you how to get to the football stadium without a map.


That is precisely "too big to fail". That was the argument for the bailouts; that by then the banks had become so essential to the economy that any penalties imposed on them would hurt people who had nothing to do with their crimes. It's basically a "human shield" argument. I'm hearing the EXACT SAME argument here -- that PSU football must be preserved solely for the sake of those who benefited from the corruption simply because they weren't aware of it.

Well, here's the thing -- you're aware of it now. No one is blaming anyone but Sandusky and JoePa's cronies for the actual victimization, but there's a moment of clarity to be had for everyone else. With the truth behind PSU football thus revealed, anyone who clings to the prosperity they enjoyed, however indirectly, is NOT innocent. If anything, it's a full embrace of the abuse and cover-up.

It's one thing to say "I had no idea". It's another to say "We should keep on enjoying the fruits of these crimes against humanity because I HAD no idea."

I'm sure a lot of Americans prospered from slavery while not having the faintest idea how their standard of living was bouyed by people they were only vaguely aware of. When we ended slavery I'm sure some people who never owned a slave in their lives took a financial hit. That's no reason to impede progress.
 
2012-07-23 11:19:13 AM

CliChe Guevara: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

Its not. It won't hurt the program at all going forward. You see, the NCAA can't actually damage that program or a few of the other big ones, because they depend on them to survive. Most college football loses money or breaks even, all the truly stupid amounts of money that are made are by only a few big teams.
Those smaller colleges have been punished or even straight up kicked out for minor violations because the NCAA can afford to, sometimes wants to. They needed something here that looked impressive but won't actually affect the cash flow coming in. The big teams never get actual sanctions, because the NCAA would be the one losing the money from those.

/Yes, college sports does have a few select teams that are "too big to fail". this is one of them.


This doesnt hurt the program? What? This program is going to be destroyed by this. Its going to take many years for them to come back even once the sanctions end. I guess if the only definition of "hurt" you have is "eliminated", you are right, it doesn't hurt them at all.
 
2012-07-23 11:19:24 AM

dlp211: And the Big 10 just took all their bowl revenue sharing from them for the next 4 years. The hits just keep on coming.


That's not that much. You're talking 13 million over four years, compared to conference revenue, at 22 million or so a year, and another 60 million on top of that.
 
2012-07-23 11:21:02 AM

my lip balm addiction: The players still at Penn State get to transfer with no issues. The players who already graduated are not harmed by this loss of wins in ANY way shape or form. They are either already in the pros or doing something non-football related.


To be fair to the current players, though, most if not all football programs pretty much have their rosters set. Recruiting for the new class has been over for awhile -- Signing Day for incoming freshmen was in early February. So while the NCAA is allowing the free transfer for players, it probably won't benefit them until next season. Of course, I'm assuming that the sanctions are going to be put in place starting this season and not next year -- haven't seen anything to the contrary yet about that.
 
2012-07-23 11:21:21 AM

HeWhoHasNoName: This was bullshiat weak sauce and the NCAA has lost all legitimacy in my eyes because of it.

National Child Abuse Association.


Thast $60 million is (supposed to be) going directly to abuse programs - we'll never see it quantified or itemized in its effect, but I think it can go a long way and hope it does.
 
2012-07-23 11:21:53 AM

AndreMA: Carousel Beast: Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno

How about just listing the "head coach" position for those years as "vacant" -- in effect retroactively disqualifying Paterno from the position? That would have the desired effect without collateral damage, and isn't any further from reality than pretending the outcome of games years ago was different.


I am tired of reading your idiotic comments and questions. Instead of asking such stupidity, why don;t you answer the farking question yourself? What "collateral damage" is being done to,,,welll...ANYONE here? If you can't answer that with any shred of intelligence than your stupid ass is going on ignore. Too many stupid farks in here just like that can't grasp a simple farking concept.

/You vote conservative too don't you
//your derp is GOP-level strong
 
2012-07-23 11:22:03 AM

professorkowalski: dlp211: And the Big 10 just took all their bowl revenue sharing from them for the next 4 years. The hits just keep on coming.

That's not that much. You're talking 13 million over four years, compared to conference revenue, at 22 million or so a year, and another 60 million on top of that.


No you are right, I misread it at first and thought it was 13 million a year, not for the duration. It's still 13 million dollars though.

Should have banned them from TV revenue, that would have been a real kick in the ole jimmy.
 
2012-07-23 11:22:38 AM

Gosling: pack the stadium,


They may discover they don't want to see a team that can't even compete with the likes of Indiana and Minnesota. And with few recruits interested, that's not going to change real soon. Plus I can't imagine it'll be easy to schedule many cup cakes for the start of the season either. Also this takes out any talk of rebuilding the program for several years. With the death penalty, it would be two years and they'd be counting down the days until they can "rebuild". Now they have many years of being a very bad program to look forward to. It'll last longer than the official sanctions will. The Penn State faithful think they're still be a top program and can get recruits. Truth is, they're not and can't. They can't get any top recruits now because no top recruit is going to want to play for a team that's going to be the doormat of the Big 10. They're going to be trying to convince players whose best options are Central Michigan and Northern Illinois to come to Penn State, and those guys aren't going to be jumping. They can no longer try to go for the players who also have Ohio State and Alabama talking to them. That's over, and will be over for years and years.
 
2012-07-23 11:23:00 AM
fanchan.org
 
2012-07-23 11:23:11 AM

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..


Was Reggie Bush punsihed when the NCAA sanctioned USC or were players that had nothing to do with it punished? did you have a problem with that?

Was Terrell Pryor punished (and serve that punishment) by the NCAA or were players that didjn't have violations punished?

NCAA sanctions generally punish the kids in school at the time more than the actual people who violated the rules or in this case human morality.
 
2012-07-23 11:23:12 AM

amundb: Zombie Paterno must pay!

Reanimate him then kill him again!




Actually, someone told me his family had him cremated.

In which case, I'd like to see his ashes mixed in with some ground beef, and a big ol' juicy burger grilled and given to Bobby Bowden during his "Winningest Coach" party. I find the idea of JoPa passing through Bowden's alimentary canal satisfyingly poetic.
 
2012-07-23 11:24:06 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

Why? That makes perfect sense to me. JoePa doesn't get those wins, which means that ALL he will be remembered for 20 years from now is kiddie rape. That's as much justice as there will ever be with him.

As for the other punishments, $60 million that will go towards fighting other abuses is good, no bowls for a while is OK. I still would have like a total suspension of play for a couple of years, but we can't get everything I guess.


I was hoping for the death penalty as well but I wonder if that would have farked with the overall Big 10 schedule too much.
 
2012-07-23 11:24:14 AM
didn't we just have this thread?

/i wanted the loss of 120 scholarships over 5 years, but i guess this will do
//dibs on the linemen.
 
2012-07-23 11:24:54 AM

jafiwam: hdhale: bdub77: OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.

Michigan got tagged back during the "Rich Rod" era for too much practice time. They lost prctice time as a result and otherwise got slapped on the wrist.

As I've stated before elsewhere, I'm rapidly tiring of college athletics and the dartboard and battle ax approach to punishment of programs. Sure I can root for the University of Kentucky to win another NCAA Men's basketball title this year, and get emotionally invested in the outcome, but increasingly I feel like any program at any moment can have all its wins taken away and be told they never happened because a starting player talked to an agent 5 fives ago and got money for a nice dinner and a pair of shoes. That's not even professional wrestling. It's a farce. Why waste my time?

Maybe the meatheaded jocks you idolize should consider following the rules.

I realize the burden may be high, needing to learn to read and all... but come on. It isn't like the shiat is a mysterious handshake of the stonecutters or something. It's in a little book, they give out for free.


I wasn't aware that any student athletes were involved in molesting boys. Why didn't you talk to Louis Freeh? What are you covering up and who are you protecting?

This is a story about an aging homosexual pedophile that created a non-profit organization and used the institution and the friends he worked for (people who trusted him implicitly) to run up his pedo count. On the scale of where he will end up in Hell he won't be at the same level James Holmes, but he'll be able to see from where he'll be. A lot of people got hurt.

But back to my point. Vacating wins is a big deal. It's not a punishment that should be handed out when there were no ineligible players involved. It eats at the integrity of the product.
 
2012-07-23 11:24:55 AM

spentmiles: Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.


4/10
 
2012-07-23 11:26:16 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-23 11:26:20 AM

dlp211: No you are right, I misread it at first and thought it was 13 million a year, not for the duration. It's still 13 million dollars though.

Should have banned them from TV revenue, that would have been a real kick in the ole jimmy.


TV revenue is lumped in, as part of the conference revenue.
 
2012-07-23 11:27:36 AM

WMCB: I don't understand eliminating scholarships. Why punish the students for their coaches' farkups?


The same reason the Fed always lowers interest rates in response to economic problems - it's the only thing they know how to do.
 
2012-07-23 11:28:09 AM

brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.


No, but Paterno and Co. covered for Sandusky's child farking to protect the program. What better way to punish him?
 
2012-07-23 11:28:38 AM

fatalvenom: spentmiles: Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.

4/10


Sadly, new Penn State head coach O'Brien was offensive coordinator with the Patriots - his first head coaching job is going to be one of the worst head coaching jobs you could possibly have. Hopefully he has the strength to take the lunps, remain patient, and put dignified people on the field.
 
2012-07-23 11:29:20 AM
There are a lot of people who are way deep in the cult of Paterno at Penn State, but there are a lot more who are utterly disgusted by the whole situation. There were riots downtown when Paterno was fired, but there was also a candlelight vigil for the victims, impromptu fundraisers soon after the news broke, etc. Penn State is characterized by many good things - including the largest student run philanthropy in the world, measured by both participation and revenue (THON).

I wanted to make that point because there are people making blanket statements about how everyone at Penn State has their moral compass completely FUBAR'd. It simply isn't so, despite a vocal group of people who do fit that description.

That being said, the football mentality at Penn State, which does permeate the overall culture, did play a role in all of this, and as such I'm glad that the cult of football is taking a hit with these sanctions. Hopefully it will help get everyone's moral compasses properly aligned (at least the administrators - there will be students who rail against this for their entire lives). It is certainly true that innocent people are going to be hurt by the sanctions, but by way of analogy, you don't fail to send your kid to his/her room just because you don't want to have his/her friends miss out on their regular play time.

I especially think stripping Paterno of his wins record was an appropriate symbolic touch.

/probably won't catch any comments directed my way; just felt inspired to try and address some of the hyperbole.
 
2012-07-23 11:29:54 AM

DamnYankees: jst3p: DamnYankees: Why do they have to be "any good"?

Because that is how athletic works?

But its not how sanctions should work. We don't punish athletes based on how good they are at the sport, and I would be extremely resistant to any penalty to the school which had the result of farking over less-talented athletes while keeping the better ones safe.


Oh STFU fer crissakes. You think that Bozo Community College football team wouldn't want some kid that was good enough to be recruited at Penn State? The ONLY student athletes that will be left at Penn State are those that WANT to still be there. The rest will be able to easily find somewhere else to go. I was starting to com around to you after people explained it to you, but then you went all derp again with your stupid comments. NO STUDENTS ARE BEING farkED OVER HERE, is that clear enough now?
 
2012-07-23 11:29:58 AM
Penn State will go 7-5, but they're going to get raped at Nebraska.
 
2012-07-23 11:30:29 AM

Dull Cow Eyes: spentmiles: I wonder what Sandusky is thinking right now


Has his lawyer prevented him from going with the Full NAMBLA defense? Cause I'm waiting for the "i was just helping young gay boys into a right of passage" consensual sex defense.


3/10
 
2012-07-23 11:31:10 AM

Sypad: I especially think stripping Paterno of his wins record was an appropriate symbolic touch.


Symbolism has no place when it comes to handing out punishment.
 
2012-07-23 11:31:14 AM

jst3p: Carousel Beast: Farking mob mentality.

You Joepa White Knights keep throwing this term around. Please stop as it does not fit the situation and makes you look stupid.

Thanks!


You're a complete retard. Or a troll. One of the two. Or both.
 
2012-07-23 11:31:17 AM

Nana's Vibrator: Thast $60 million is (supposed to be) going directly to abuse programs - we'll never see it quantified or itemized in its effect, but I think it can go a long way and hope it does.


Child abuse recovery programs are chronically underfunded, but this is the one part of the punishments that reeks most of marketing.

Child abuse counseling needs money, badly, but it's not like you can do this by just throwing money on it. Yes, I know, Fark and nuance go together like a spark and dynamite, so try to keep up. The reason why even after $60 million these sorts of programs will be starved for cash is that I bitterly assume there will be some very regressive restrictions on how the money is spent -- namely, on facilities while zero fund will be allocated to, say, hire a counselor with a goddamn MSSW. The problem is that you can buy all the nice shiny facilities in the world, but what they really need are competent, trustworthy people. LOTS of them. It's a very labor-intensive process. These places are often targeted by abusers, so everyone from the counselor to the effin' janitor needs to be extensively monitored, and tragically, they often aren't. The ideal sorts of people for this generally work professional jobs, and any attempt to pay qualified social workers for anything more than listening to bored housewives whine about their first-world problems are met with howls of outrage about wasted money.

My sister is a MSSW. She doesn't do social work for a living because in most places, you can't.
 
2012-07-23 11:32:15 AM
How is Jerry Sandusky

i.usatoday.net


Like

www.cravingthesavings.com

Chicken of the Sea tuna?


They both come in small cans...
 
2012-07-23 11:32:24 AM

Sliding Carp: WMCB: I don't understand eliminating scholarships. Why punish the students for their coaches' farkups?

The same reason the Fed always lowers interest rates in response to economic problems - it's the only thing they know how to do.


I guess they could redistribute the allowed scholarships to other schools.

The heart of the matter is this. The NCAA has made a serious and grave penalty for allowing diddling to occur (especially diddling that was known about or at the very least, strongly suspected) by people with enough clout to stop it. Penn State is being made an example of. Seeing the football program's head displayed on a pike will likely make other colleges take an interest in whatever secret activity may be going on in their halls. That was the point of this.
 
2012-07-23 11:33:40 AM

Nana's Vibrator: Sadly, new Penn State head coach O'Brien was offensive coordinator with the Patriots - his first head coaching job is going to be one of the worst head coaching jobs you could possibly have. Hopefully he has the strength to take the lunps, remain patient, and put dignified people on the field.


In a way, something interesting could happen. No one expects on-field success. Without the pressure of having to win, what do you do?
 
2012-07-23 11:33:41 AM

Nana's Vibrator: fatalvenom: spentmiles: Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.

4/10

Sadly, new Penn State head coach O'Brien was offensive coordinator with the Patriots - his first head coaching job is going to be one of the worst head coaching jobs you could possibly have. Hopefully he has the strength to take the lunps, remain patient, and put dignified people on the field.


He started with them in 2007... same year Spygate happened. Why the fark would they even consider picking this guy?
 
2012-07-23 11:33:49 AM

nmiguy: How is Jerry Sandusky

[i.usatoday.net image 490x360]


Like

[www.cravingthesavings.com image 175x175]

Chicken of the Sea tuna?


They both come in small cans...


No, sometimes it comes in mouths. Haven't you been paying attention?
 
2012-07-23 11:34:10 AM

professorkowalski: Sypad: I especially think stripping Paterno of his wins record was an appropriate symbolic touch.

Symbolism has no place when it comes to handing out punishment.


I generally agree, but I can't think of any more appropriate way to punish Paterno, since he passed away already.
 
2012-07-23 11:34:18 AM

Sypad: /probably won't catch any comments directed my way; just felt inspired to try and address some of the hyperbole.


No, it matters. For better or worse, the attention is directed at the holdouts.

This is one case, though, where I think public herd behavior is working well. If you "get it" then the torches and pitchforks aren't marching in your direction anyway.
 
2012-07-23 11:34:26 AM

my lip balm addiction: AndreMA: Carousel Beast: Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno

How about just listing the "head coach" position for those years as "vacant" -- in effect retroactively disqualifying Paterno from the position? That would have the desired effect without collateral damage, and isn't any further from reality than pretending the outcome of games years ago was different.

I am tired of reading your idiotic comments and questions. Instead of asking such stupidity, why don;t you answer the farking question yourself? What "collateral damage" is being done to,,,welll...ANYONE here? If you can't answer that with any shred of intelligence than your stupid ass is going on ignore. Too many stupid farks in here just like that can't grasp a simple farking concept.

/You vote conservative too don't you
//your derp is GOP-level strong


They vacated the wins for both the players and coaches. At least some of the coaches were complicit in the cover up. Which players were, again?

You are a farking inbred moron if you think a blanket punishment that hits the innocent rather than targeting the guilty is a good idea.

/Not to mention a political hack
 
2012-07-23 11:34:58 AM

gadian: Meh. Sound and fury signifying nothing. We're so mad at you that we're going to hurt every player from the last decade + even though they weren't the ones raping kids. There, aren't you students so sorry that you probably didn't know and could never have helped those children! It's like your mother beating your brother when your father is caught screwing around. Just kick them out of the league for bad sportsmanship or something instead. That would show a no-tolerance sort of attitude. Horses, barn door and all.



Where the hell are all these PSU defenders when organizations like Bank of America, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and Countrywide are being attacked by people demanding their dissolution for the dishonest business practices of a few employees?
 
2012-07-23 11:35:09 AM

Void_Beavis: So SMU gets the "death penalty" for paying off players, but PSU can have Pedobear on their coaching staff and is allowed to continue playing football.

Yeah...

I'm going to go punch a wall now.


The NCAA has all but said they won't death penalty anyone again. They thought the program would suffer for 3-4 years at most, not 2 decades.

While it's an option it's more like a nuke. They keep it as a deterrent more than something they plan on unleashing.

If JoPa were still head coach I think the punishment would have been harsher as well, maybe 1 year of 0 scholarships and 3 years of reduced, something to keep them from recruiting.
 
2012-07-23 11:35:37 AM

hdhale: But back to my point. Vacating wins is a big deal. It's not a punishment that should be handed out when there were no ineligible players involved. It eats at the integrity of the product.


I don't even consider vacating wins to be a valid punishment at all. The game was played. The highlight reels were recorded. The people and players attended. The fans paid their money, the players made a case to NFL scouts or failed to do so. The injuries picked up on the field didn't retroactively heal. The players who made a case to NFL scouts went on to play in the NFL, and the NFL doesn't give a shiat about college wins and losses (see also: undrafted Kellen Moore). Everybody who was there remembers the games that were played, the course of football history was altered due to them. You can't just go 'Okay, everyone, now we're going to start telling big, fat lies about our past and we'd like you to tell those big, fat lies as well' as if this were some sort of Stalinist purge or something.
 
2012-07-23 11:36:44 AM

CheekyMonkey: clipperbox: i wish they could revive joe pa and give him the news

Don't worry, he knows. They get ESPN in Hell.


Only "Rome is Burning"...on an endless loop

"Hello clones...Rome here. Today with have a great 12 hour sit down with Ryan Leaf so have a take and bring it."

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-23 11:37:04 AM
But has anyone stopped to point out who the *real* victims here are???

a.abcnews.com

/yes, I see you jackasses
//yes, punishing the students who did nothing is a-ok in my book

///how else are people supposed to realize that raping children is bad?
 
2012-07-23 11:38:19 AM
I don't know/care about sports much in general. And College Football ranks about even with belly button lint in my give-a-fark o-meter.

BUT, can we start lobbying to make it legal to punch people in the face that utter the term "JoePa", because I really really wanna punch people in the face that say that word. A lot.
 
2012-07-23 11:38:50 AM

CliChe Guevara: PlatinumDragon: //you don't want to know what I'd do to Vatican City in my imagination

I wouldn't mess with the city itself. it has some great buildings. The occupants, yes, but after they were mostly flayed or disarticulated I think the tiny little city itself would make a freaking awesome venue and clubbing spot.


Neutron weaponry.

/I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...
 
2012-07-23 11:39:11 AM

nmiguy: How is Jerry Sandusky

[i.usatoday.net image 490x360]


Like

[www.cravingthesavings.com image 175x175]

Chicken of the Sea tuna?


They both come in small cans...


And Jackie Martling gets another royalty check....

/rim shot
//many rim shots
///oww
 
2012-07-23 11:39:53 AM

Carousel Beast: my lip balm addiction: AndreMA: Carousel Beast: Vacating the wins isn't a bad idea, actually, since it's the only way to punish Paterno

How about just listing the "head coach" position for those years as "vacant" -- in effect retroactively disqualifying Paterno from the position? That would have the desired effect without collateral damage, and isn't any further from reality than pretending the outcome of games years ago was different.

I am tired of reading your idiotic comments and questions. Instead of asking such stupidity, why don;t you answer the farking question yourself? What "collateral damage" is being done to,,,welll...ANYONE here? If you can't answer that with any shred of intelligence than your stupid ass is going on ignore. Too many stupid farks in here just like that can't grasp a simple farking concept.

/You vote conservative too don't you
//your derp is GOP-level strong

They vacated the wins for both the players and coaches. At least some of the coaches were complicit in the cover up. Which players were, again?

You are a farking inbred moron if you think a blanket punishment that hits the innocent rather than targeting the guilty is a good idea.

/Not to mention a political hack


Your tears are delicious and your opinion is invalid.
 
2012-07-23 11:40:12 AM

ScouserDuck: austin_millbarge: ScouserDuck: and by saying a team has lost every game since '98, you demoralize the entire fanbase.

..no, it knocks the child molester sympathizer Paterno off his perch as the winningest coach.

/but that punishes the students and players right?

I was speaking as a college football fan. I would be crushed if my team's record was 0-14 years. But what you and others had said is correct too.


Crushed over 14 years of retroactive losses? How about 14 years of child rape cover ups?

/you are part of the problem
 
2012-07-23 11:40:37 AM
14 years of covering up rape and this is all they get?! That's complete and utter bullshiat. Should have killed the program altogether. Anything less is unacceptable.
 
2012-07-23 11:40:54 AM

Gosling: I don't even consider vacating wins to be a valid punishment at all. The game was played. The highlight reels were recorded. The people and players attended. The fans paid their money, the players made a case to NFL scouts or failed to do so. The injuries picked up on the field didn't retroactively heal. The players who made a case to NFL scouts went on to play in the NFL, and the NFL doesn't give a shiat about college wins and losses (see also: undrafted Kellen Moore). Everybody who was there remembers the games that were played, the course of football history was altered due to them. You can't just go 'Okay, everyone, now we're going to start telling big, fat lies about our past and we'd like you to tell those big, fat lies as well' as if this were some sort of Stalinist purge or something.


So here's a procedural question. Are just the wins vacated or is every stat gathered vacated?

I suspect that an individual players totals would still count. Like rushing yards or TDs or whatever. I guess you COULD tie a Win-Loss record to a QB as some do, but really, that's kind of a misleading stat. It's coaches that are thought of in terms of W-L in football, not the players.

So I ask this... if you're a recent graduate from Penn State, and suddenly you have no wins, wouldn't the NFL realize that PSU just had their record adjusted by the NCAA and this kid needs to be evaluated on his talent? And did vacating those wins vacate your individual stats? And... finally... if you a member of an opposing team that played PSU in the last decade or so, are your stats affected?
 
2012-07-23 11:41:04 AM
So no bans for anyone involved?
 
2012-07-23 11:41:29 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: But has anyone stopped to point out who the *real* victims here are???

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]

/yes, I see you jackasses
//yes, punishing the students who did nothing is a-ok in my book

///how else are people supposed to realize that raping children is bad?


You know, we could get that across even more strongly if we just randomly executed everyone in a nursing home. Preferably one in Oregon, where nobody is likely to have had any connection to these events at all. That way we can show that raping children is bad.
 
2012-07-23 11:41:38 AM

stonicus: Nana's Vibrator: fatalvenom: spentmiles: Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.

4/10

Sadly, new Penn State head coach O'Brien was offensive coordinator with the Patriots - his first head coaching job is going to be one of the worst head coaching jobs you could possibly have. Hopefully he has the strength to take the lunps, remain patient, and put dignified people on the field.

He started with them in 2007... same year Spygate happened. Why the fark would they even consider picking this guy?


Sounds trolly, but honestly, it makes you wonder what they knew when they hired him. O'Brien was lower level at the time of Spygate but was still close to the media storm and outrage (not that Belichick lets any coordinator talk to anyone). The kind of experience in keeping people focused despite such distraction would be an asset in this situation.
 
2012-07-23 11:41:54 AM

Icetech3: 60m is nothing to that college and the ncaa has punished students that have no reason to be punished other than supporting joe pa... go after the people responsible..


By your line of logic...I guess supporters of Bin Laden or Hitler are all innocent if all they do is just to support them?

Have you been to Penn State? 99% are responsible!! if not directly as least indirectly. It's the 'invincible' culture of football that permeates throughout the entire college. You're basically God even if you're a cheerleader or the janitor cleaning lockerooms.
Where do you think this superiority complex of coaches, athletes etc comes from?
 
2012-07-23 11:42:08 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: The NCAA has all but said they won't death penalty anyone again


This. People really need to stop getting mad about programs not getting punished as much as SMU. They saw what it did, realized it was too much, and won't do it again. It kind of sucks that they can't go undo it to SMU, but they realized their error and are trying not to repeat it.

I like that the NCAA figured out that you don't always HAVE to top the record punishment every time someone violates rules, something that our government and our people haven't seemed to figure out.
 
2012-07-23 11:42:21 AM

Gosling: hdhale: But back to my point. Vacating wins is a big deal. It's not a punishment that should be handed out when there were no ineligible players involved. It eats at the integrity of the product.

I don't even consider vacating wins to be a valid punishment at all. The game was played. The highlight reels were recorded. The people and players attended. The fans paid their money, the players made a case to NFL scouts or failed to do so. The injuries picked up on the field didn't retroactively heal. The players who made a case to NFL scouts went on to play in the NFL, and the NFL doesn't give a shiat about college wins and losses (see also: undrafted Kellen Moore). Everybody who was there remembers the games that were played, the course of football history was altered due to them. You can't just go 'Okay, everyone, now we're going to start telling big, fat lies about our past and we'd like you to tell those big, fat lies as well' as if this were some sort of Stalinist purge or something.


yeah, that's sort of my feeling on vacating wins. it's meaningless and pointless. now scholarship reductions, tv bans, and bowl bans are meaningful punishments for a program that clearly needed to have its priorities readjusted.

/will not enjoy the "resilience" stories that espn will run if penn state plays remotely decently.
 
2012-07-23 11:42:34 AM

Mercutio74: So I ask this... if you're a recent graduate from Penn State, and suddenly you have no wins, wouldn't the NFL realize that PSU just had their record adjusted by the NCAA and this kid needs to be evaluated on his talent? And did vacating those wins vacate your individual stats? And... finally... if you a member of an opposing team that played PSU in the last decade or so, are your stats affected?


A) The NCAA isn't the only one who keeps stats of these games.
B) The NFL doesn't base its evaluations on W/L in the first place.
 
2012-07-23 11:43:20 AM

Martycrane: 14 years of covering up rape and this is all they get?! That's complete and utter bullshiat. Should have killed the program altogether. Anything less is unacceptable.


Tell us, keyboard warrior.... What are you going to do about it?
 
2012-07-23 11:43:39 AM

netweavr: So no bans for anyone involved?


I hear that JoePa is banned from coaching forever now. Sandusky will probably only earn receiving yards from now on, no passing yards for him.
 
2012-07-23 11:43:44 AM

stonicus: Nana's Vibrator: fatalvenom: spentmiles: Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.

4/10

Sadly, new Penn State head coach O'Brien was offensive coordinator with the Patriots - his first head coaching job is going to be one of the worst head coaching jobs you could possibly have. Hopefully he has the strength to take the lunps, remain patient, and put dignified people on the field.

He started with them in 2007... same year Spygate happened. Why the fark would they even consider picking this guy?


Because he said yes...
 
2012-07-23 11:43:53 AM
Allow me to quote Nelson Muntz: "Ha ha!" It isn't exactly the death penalty, but that'll do. Where is your Paterno now, PSU?

With the wins from 1998-2011 vacated, Paterno moves from 409 wins to 298, dropping him from first to 12th on the winningest NCAA football coach list.

Oh, right. Legacy? farked.
 
2012-07-23 11:44:38 AM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: I don't know/care about sports much in general. And College Football ranks about even with belly button lint in my give-a-fark o-meter.

BUT, can we start lobbying to make it legal to punch people in the face that utter the term "JoePa", because I really really wanna punch people in the face that say that word. A lot.


joepa joepa joepa conceal and enabled a kiddy rapist for 14 years. joepa.
 
2012-07-23 11:44:50 AM

netweavr: Mercutio74: So I ask this... if you're a recent graduate from Penn State, and suddenly you have no wins, wouldn't the NFL realize that PSU just had their record adjusted by the NCAA and this kid needs to be evaluated on his talent? And did vacating those wins vacate your individual stats? And... finally... if you a member of an opposing team that played PSU in the last decade or so, are your stats affected?

A) The NCAA isn't the only one who keeps stats of these games.
B) The NFL doesn't base its evaluations on W/L in the first place.


So this whole "vacating wins" business in fact doesn't affect the players at all in terms of their football careers. That's what I suspected.
 
2012-07-23 11:45:22 AM

Mercutio74: So I ask this... if you're a recent graduate from Penn State, and suddenly you have no wins, wouldn't the NFL realize that PSU just had their record adjusted by the NCAA and this kid needs to be evaluated on his talent? And did vacating those wins vacate your individual stats? And... finally... if you a member of an opposing team that played PSU in the last decade or so, are your stats affected?


NFL teams aren't going to screw up their draft board to make the NCAA happy. They aren't going to take a guy who ran for 40 touchdowns but who the NCAA claims never ran for any because they were all vacated, and go 'This guy never ran for a touchdown? He must suck!' Because some other team is going to ignore the directive, draft him, and use him to run the fark over the team that did obey the vacated-wins directive.

They're going to go by what actually happened on the field, not what the NCAA claims 'officially' happened.
 
2012-07-23 11:46:00 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: Where is your Paterno now, PSU?


i've heard he's in storage. or just perhaps ashes now. depending on which joepa you were asking about...
 
2012-07-23 11:46:08 AM
It seems some folks think that if you abandon wins it matters to anything at all. It doesn't. It doesn't even give the team you abandoned the win against a win. They still have a loss.

That was an excellent add on that really affects nothing other than Joe Paterno's career wins. What number is he on the winninest coaches list now?
 
2012-07-23 11:46:40 AM
I'm not sure about the vacated wins thing. I have a thing about historical revisionism, and whatever you may say about Paterno (and what I will be saying is that he enabled the rape of children for a decade), he did coach a team who won those games.

Perhaps and "asterisking" would have been better.

/STAND DOWN, I'm at least as furious at Penn State as you are.
 
2012-07-23 11:46:45 AM

Carousel Beast: The My Little Pony Killer: But has anyone stopped to point out who the *real* victims here are???

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]

/yes, I see you jackasses
//yes, punishing the students who did nothing is a-ok in my book

///how else are people supposed to realize that raping children is bad?

You know, we could get that across even more strongly if we just randomly executed everyone in a nursing home. Preferably one in Oregon, where nobody is likely to have had any connection to these events at all. That way we can show that raping children is bad.


False analogy is false.
 
2012-07-23 11:46:59 AM
The penalty against Penn state is understandable, but does it have any provisions to prevent those who had nothing to do with what happened from being affected by the penalty?
 
2012-07-23 11:47:16 AM

IAmRight: DoBeDoBeDo: The NCAA has all but said they won't death penalty anyone again

This. People really need to stop getting mad about programs not getting punished as much as SMU. They saw what it did, realized it was too much, and won't do it again. It kind of sucks that they can't go undo it to SMU, but they realized their error and are trying not to repeat it.

I like that the NCAA figured out that you don't always HAVE to top the record punishment every time someone violates rules, something that our government and our people haven't seemed to figure out.


You don't always have to top the old punishment, but when the violation is more extreme, you'd be idiotic not to.

You know, none of this would bother me as much if the students at Penn State hadn't rioted over Paterno's firing. I mean, I'm 21 years old and a college student, and I like football, but that kind of behavior is indicative of an addiction to the culture that needs to be broken, cold turkey.
 
2012-07-23 11:48:01 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: The penalty against Penn state is understandable, but does it have any provisions to prevent those who had nothing to do with what happened from being affected by the penalty?


Yes.
 
2012-07-23 11:48:14 AM
Will past players accomplishments also be nulified? Like any awards for rushing, sacks or anything like that or just the wins? I didnt read all of TFA. I am kinda on the fence about the scolarships. I hope any of the ones taken away are not from current players but just not there for any future prospects. But I do understand the NCAA reason for doing it.
 
2012-07-23 11:48:26 AM

Mercutio74: netweavr: Mercutio74: So I ask this... if you're a recent graduate from Penn State, and suddenly you have no wins, wouldn't the NFL realize that PSU just had their record adjusted by the NCAA and this kid needs to be evaluated on his talent? And did vacating those wins vacate your individual stats? And... finally... if you a member of an opposing team that played PSU in the last decade or so, are your stats affected?

A) The NCAA isn't the only one who keeps stats of these games.
B) The NFL doesn't base its evaluations on W/L in the first place.

So this whole "vacating wins" business in fact doesn't affect the players at all in terms of their football careers. That's what I suspected.


Now if you could only get AndrefromMA and about half a dozen other retards in here to "get" that, we'd actually be getting somewhere in this thread.
 
2012-07-23 11:48:30 AM

Publikwerks: Be thankful, If I had my way:


You, sir, have earned my write-in Presidential nomination. Kudos.
 
2012-07-23 11:48:47 AM

Carousel Beast: You know, we could get that across even more strongly if we just randomly executed everyone in a nursing home. Preferably one in Oregon, where nobody is likely to have had any connection to these events at all. That way we can show that raping children is bad.


What gets me is that you actually think the players are being punished here. I'll tell you exactly how things are going to go with former Penn State players: they'll hear the news this morning, feel bad about it for about 20 minutes, then move on with their lives as if nothing happened. It's just football, it's just a game; all this really does is officially wreck Paterno's legacy. And yet you compare it to murdering nursing home residents. What is your major malfunction? How did you become so deranged, so utterly disconnected from reality? But it's all right, keep it up; your rage is impotent and your tears are delicious.
 
2012-07-23 11:49:03 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: The penalty against Penn state is understandable, but does it have any provisions to prevent those who had nothing to do with what happened from being affected by the penalty?


Like when the NCAA handed out penalties to USC and Ohio St recently and didn't have any affect on the folks that actually committed the violations? You mean provisions like that?

Actually the NCAA is allowing anyone who wants to transfer from PSU Football to do so without losing a year of eligibility or having to sit out a year. So they did I guess in this case.
 
2012-07-23 11:49:04 AM

Carousel Beast: You're a complete retard. Or a troll. One of the two. Or both.


Carousel Beast: You are a farking inbred moron


You add so much value to the discussion.
 
2012-07-23 11:49:06 AM

Marine1: You know, none of this would bother me as much if the students at Penn State hadn't rioted over Paterno's firing. I mean, I'm 21 years old and a college student, and I like football, but that kind of behavior is indicative of an addiction to the culture that needs to be broken, cold turkey.


You wouldn't say that if you went to a college that had a good football team.
 
2012-07-23 11:49:40 AM
"WE...... ARE..... PENN STATE *SLAP-SLAP-SLAP* SANDUSKY'D!!"
 
2012-07-23 11:50:26 AM

Mercutio74: So this whole "vacating wins" business in fact doesn't affect the players at all in terms of their football careers. That's what I suspected.


they say it's for the record book. you know so joepa goes from winningest coach ever to 8th all time.
 
2012-07-23 11:50:29 AM
I'm happy with the sanctions, but I want their asses out of the Big Ten. What gets you thrown out of a conference?
 
2012-07-23 11:50:47 AM

Likwit: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

No, but Paterno and Co. covered for Sandusky's child farking to protect the program. What better way to punish him?


This doesn't punish either Paterno or Sandusky at all. Paterno's dead; Sandusky's already in prison. And the only thing you can do by punishing the culture is drop the "-ure".

/Terrorist acts were committed for this sort of punitive punishment.
//And yes, I am referring to Timothy McVeigh.
 
2012-07-23 11:50:59 AM

groppet: Will past players accomplishments also be nulified? Like any awards for rushing, sacks or anything like that or just the wins? I didnt read all of TFA. I am kinda on the fence about the scolarships. I hope any of the ones taken away are not from current players but just not there for any future prospects. But I do understand the NCAA reason for doing it.


They can't take away scholarships they've already given out. This only affects future football scholarships. What will happen, the money from those lost football scholarships, that money is already part of the PSU budget, so it will go to students elsewhere.

Personal stats from those wins are not part of the vacating of wins.
 
2012-07-23 11:51:00 AM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: I don't know/care about sports much in general. And College Football ranks about even with belly button lint in my give-a-fark o-meter.

BUT, can we start lobbying to make it legal to punch people in the face that utter the term "JoePa", because I really really wanna punch people in the face that say that word. A lot.


JOEPA WAS THE JOEPAest JOEPA THAT EVER JOEPAed. I'D JOEPA A JOEPA FOR JOEPA IF I EVER GOT A JOEPAs CHANCE IN JOEPA TO JOEPA!

JOOOOOOOOOOPAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

As long as Matt Millen is outraged, his tears of impotent rage are enough for me!
 
2012-07-23 11:51:19 AM

IAmRight: This. People really need to stop getting mad about programs not getting punished as much as SMU. They saw what it did, realized it was too much, and won't do it again. It kind of sucks that they can't go undo it to SMU, but they realized their error and are trying not to repeat it.


Here's the thing. They didn't know what was going to happen to SMU back then.

We know now.

We were calling for that to happen to Penn State. We actively were seeking the destruction of Penn State as a competitive football program for the next 25 years and their perpetual purgatory in minor-conference hell. We thought that to be a punishment that fit the crime.
 
2012-07-23 11:51:28 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: The penalty against Penn state is understandable, but does it have any provisions to prevent those who had nothing to do with what happened from being affected by the penalty?


I think desmond Howard said it best, the players are given a choice. They are free to transfer without any waiting period or eligibility penalty, or they can continue on to play for Penn State. A choice, which is something the actual victims never had.

I think the NCAA did the right thing entirely. I was in the death penalty group but these are appropriate sanctions which have limited punishment for those not involved with the scandal.
 
2012-07-23 11:51:59 AM

groppet: Will past players accomplishments also be nulified? Like any awards for rushing, sacks or anything like that or just the wins? I didnt read all of TFA. I am kinda on the fence about the scolarships. I hope any of the ones taken away are not from current players but just not there for any future prospects. But I do understand the NCAA reason for doing it.


Current players have the option of transferring without penalty, and unless they're idiots that's exactly what they'll do.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:10 AM
Still don't understand the rationale for vacating wins. No argument that there was some unfair advantage or rule-breaking that resulted in those wins (not like drugs, illegal students, etc.)

So what exactly is the argument that those wins aren't wins?

They can crap on JoPa all they want and he deserves it. They can crap on the University and their athletic department all they want and they deserve it too.

But what's the logic in saying that those games were played under an unfair/unjust circumstance that requires an on-field victory to be forfeited?
 
2012-07-23 11:52:20 AM
This seems fair, and I am alright with it.

As an above poster said, I wish they would force all games to be played on the practice field for the 2012 season. That would prevent Penn State fans from embarrassing themselves even further by packing themselves into the regular stadium and cheering in solidarity with their tainted heroes.

For those of you concerned with fairness to the poor students and fans--

Why, in all the Fark thread I've read about this, were the Penn State alumni and fans who despised these crimes and welcomed punishment outnumbered like ten to one by the alumni and fans whining about it?

The students and fans, while not child rapists themselves (hopefully) DID NOT DO ENOUGH to distance themselves from these heinous acts.

Therefore, enjoy your vacated wins. Go Noles!

a.espncdn.com
 
2012-07-23 11:52:28 AM

Gosling: NFL teams aren't going to screw up their draft board to make the NCAA happy. They aren't going to take a guy who ran for 40 touchdowns but who the NCAA claims never ran for any because they were all vacated, and go 'This guy never ran for a touchdown? He must suck!' Because some other team is going to ignore the directive, draft him, and use him to run the fark over the team that did obey the vacated-wins directive.

They're going to go by what actually happened on the field, not what the NCAA claims 'officially' happened.


I agree. That's why I don't quite understand your post about how the games actually happened. Yes, they did... but the NCAA clearly didn't want their winningest coach ever to be a guy who helped one of his subordinates cover up a good old fashioned child rogering.

Wins are a coaching statistic in football (and most team sports, unless you're a goaltender). I've seen no evidence to say that they're also going to strip players of individual statistics.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:46 AM

dragonchild: Nana's Vibrator: Thast $60 million is (supposed to be) going directly to abuse programs - we'll never see it quantified or itemized in its effect, but I think it can go a long way and hope it does.

Child abuse recovery programs are chronically underfunded, but this is the one part of the punishments that reeks most of marketing.

Child abuse counseling needs money, badly, but it's not like you can do this by just throwing money on it. Yes, I know, Fark and nuance go together like a spark and dynamite, so try to keep up. The reason why even after $60 million these sorts of programs will be starved for cash is that I bitterly assume there will be some very regressive restrictions on how the money is spent -- namely, on facilities while zero fund will be allocated to, say, hire a counselor with a goddamn MSSW. The problem is that you can buy all the nice shiny facilities in the world, but what they really need are competent, trustworthy people. LOTS of them. It's a very labor-intensive process. These places are often targeted by abusers, so everyone from the counselor to the effin' janitor needs to be extensively monitored, and tragically, they often aren't. The ideal sorts of people for this generally work professional jobs, and any attempt to pay qualified social workers for anything more than listening to bored housewives whine about their first-world problems are met with howls of outrage about wasted money.

My sister is a MSSW. She doesn't do social work for a living because in most places, you can't.


I'll agree here - If you heard the punishment, the NCAA official mentioned it was for "various" programs - which to me meant 'spread too thinly' ; - in my mind I was afraid of frivolous spending, but you make it sound as if there are some spending controls and that the $60 mil is going to go to union construction guys putting up buildings.
A great punishment would have been one major clinic being built and sustained by Penn State, hiring higher level social workers, rather than just-out-of-school people with standard questionnaires and clipboards and being tasked with too many cases for one person to handle. The reach might be limited, but it would at least do a lot of good in Pennsylvania.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:54 AM

JK47: gadian: Meh. Sound and fury signifying nothing. We're so mad at you that we're going to hurt every player from the last decade + even though they weren't the ones raping kids. There, aren't you students so sorry that you probably didn't know and could never have helped those children! It's like your mother beating your brother when your father is caught screwing around. Just kick them out of the league for bad sportsmanship or something instead. That would show a no-tolerance sort of attitude. Horses, barn door and all.


Where the hell are all these PSU defenders when organizations like Bank of America, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and Countrywide are being attacked by people demanding their dissolution for the dishonest business practices of a few employees?


Where were all the PSU attackers when organizations like Florida A&M were covering up the death of a student due to hazing, because the band was more important?
 
2012-07-23 11:53:11 AM
Congratulations, NCAA, you prioritized your money making over doing the right thing, and now other colleges know that if they run into something like this, they can cover it up as well and walk away with a slap on the wrist.

Fark off and die, NCAA. You'll never receive a penny of my money.
 
2012-07-23 11:53:32 AM

thecpt: I'm happy with the sanctions, but I want their asses out of the Big Ten. What gets you thrown out of a conference?


Consistent losing....that's about the only way.
 
2012-07-23 11:53:45 AM

srhp29: That was an excellent add on that really affects nothing other than Joe Paterno's career wins. What number is he on the winninest coaches list now?


He's still #1 on the list. All the NCAA is doing is lying as official record and refusing to admit the correct answer.
 
2012-07-23 11:53:51 AM

fireclown: I'm not sure about the vacated wins thing. I have a thing about historical revisionism, and whatever you may say about Paterno (and what I will be saying is that he enabled the rape of children for a decade), he did coach a team who won those games.

Perhaps and "asterisking" would have been better.

/STAND DOWN, I'm at least as furious at Penn State as you are.


Same thing really, asterisking and vacating the wins. The other team doesn't get a win. Penn St just doesn't get a win either.
 
2012-07-23 11:53:58 AM
I wonder if the people in this thread saying "but it hurts people not involved" have the same battle cry when a corporation is taken for millions in a lawsuit caused because one of its employees did something wrong.
 
2012-07-23 11:54:23 AM
Seems a bit light. Hopefully its enough to change the way things are done there.
 
2012-07-23 11:54:23 AM

Marine1: You don't always have to top the old punishment, but when the violation is more extreme, you'd be idiotic not to.


The violation was of a criminal nature, not really an NCAA-only punishment. People really need to learn which enforcement agencies are responsible for which violations. The people involved got prison time for this, which far exceeds anything anyone at SMU got if you'd like to be realistic about the full scope of punishments.

Marine1: You know, none of this would bother me as much if the students at Penn State hadn't rioted over Paterno's firing.


Less was known and if you're a college student, you might be smart enough to know that when you have 40,000+ people, you're going to have segments of that population that are going to rally around anything.
 
2012-07-23 11:54:41 AM
And the retard dance by former players has already begun on Twitter.

A.Q. Shipley:

Twitter: "This looks like a lot more wins than 0 dont you think? Just wondering! #WEARE http://lockerz.com/s/227611395 "

Derek Moye:

Twitter: "They can take away whatever games they want to, I know I was apart of win 400 409 and all the other games WE won while at PSU"

Good Lord. These guys really think it's about their accomplishments.

Listen, jerkholes: your coach covered up a bunch of horrendous crimes so his buddy could help him keep winning games and to protect his legacy. It's not about you. It's about the kids that were horrifically abused by Jerry Sandusky while your coach and AD didn't care.
 
2012-07-23 11:54:46 AM

cefm: Still don't understand the rationale for vacating wins. No argument that there was some unfair advantage or rule-breaking that resulted in those wins (not like drugs, illegal students, etc.)

So what exactly is the argument that those wins aren't wins?

They can crap on JoPa all they want and he deserves it. They can crap on the University and their athletic department all they want and they deserve it too.

But what's the logic in saying that those games were played under an unfair/unjust circumstance that requires an on-field victory to be forfeited?


Yes, because JoePa would have been fired and/or good players not come to the school because of the crime and coverup.