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(ESPN)   Penn State gets Sandusky'd   (espn.go.com) divider line 1081
    More: News, Penn State, Sandusky'd, Mark Emmert, President Ma, College Coach, Beaver Stadium, defensive coordinator, Joe Schad  
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16149 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 9:44 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 10:05:38 AM

Gimmick: Tenga: So Bobby Bowden is now the winningest coach?

Ya. Paterno will still be in the record books, but it will be for most consecutive losses.


Gagliardi
 
2012-07-23 10:05:48 AM

bdub77: This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA.


0/10
 
2012-07-23 10:05:53 AM

dlp211: Endive Wombat: So doesn't this fark over current students (players)? What about folks who went to Penn State and are now in the Pros? Are they not "allowed" to put their Penn State football achievements on their resume?

No, and I don't think that is how pro football works.


Once you're a professional player (especially after a few years), your college background is as meaningful as where you played pee-wee football.
 
2012-07-23 10:05:54 AM

austin_millbarge: stonicus: Winning games and bowl games is the entire reason they play football. Basically telling them "everything you did the last 12 years is erased". It'd be like erasing half your resume then going to try to find a job.

Thats not a good analogy.

1) Paterno is dead and will never need those wins to get another job

2) no PSU student will ever be punished by losing out on a job because Paterno is now no longer the winningest coach.


Yeah, I thought that too after I had sent it... =P
 
2012-07-23 10:05:56 AM

steamingpile: Funk Brothers: Penn State just got some urban renewal.

You can bet this scumbag will be on the PSU campus first thing to take players, most coaches are scumbags a few are better at hiding it namely saban, Meyer, and joepa


No, problem. We only got a bowl ban for one year. Besides, we're focusing on beating Michigan this year.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:02 AM

tailormadebassist: It's a slap on the wrist to Penn State but a blow to the students. The coach didn't win those games, the kids on the field did. This is hurting the students more than it's hurting the college. Plus, I feel bad for the senior football players who were working hard to try and get to those bowl games. More sanctions on the people involved and not the innocent students.


Nobody ever said life was fair. The message had to be sent: If you think outing a pedophile like Sandusky would do your sports program damage, we'd like you to remember just how much more damage we will do when we find out. Choose wisely.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:12 AM

Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.


Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?
 
2012-07-23 10:06:17 AM

bdub77: OSU down. PSU down. Michigan next?

This sure feels like a Big Ten witch hunt perpetrated by the NCAA. They can go after the low hanging fruit instead of investigating, I dunno, the entire SEC.

The NCAA can go fark itself.


Good thing the Big Ten decided to clean itself up by bringing on Nebras...

Oh.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:21 AM
I love how the PSU apologists are acting like the former director of the Freaking FBI does not know anything about due process or how to run an investigation.
You folks comissioned the report and you got the truth but...,
sbrownehr.com
 
2012-07-23 10:06:31 AM

BMFPitt: Endive Wombat: Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?

The bowl ban (and the loss of scholarships) basically means that the university will lose hundreds of millions of dollars, and the football program will probably never recover.

The vacated wins basically means nothing.

As long as current players are allowed to transfer without penalty, then I have no problem with this. They should have decided this earlier, though, to give those kids time.


I would imagine most of the star players will get gobbled up very quickly.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:35 AM

nekom: brobdiggy: Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?

That's a valid concern, but what's a better alternative? Rewarding those who come forward? A cash prize for whistle blowers?


The message being sent isn't "If there is child molesting going on you will lose 4 years of scholarships and vacate 10 years of wins" It is "If there is child molesting going on and the entire program covers it up for a decade, you will lose 4 years of scholarships and vacate 10 years of wins"


Pretty big difference.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:37 AM
I'm not saying it's the death penalty......... But it's the death penalty.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:38 AM

Confabulat: So Joe Pa is now only the 5th winningest coach in D-1 history? Eh, no wonder they tore down his statue.


Not even in the top 10.
 
2012-07-23 10:06:42 AM

lack of warmth: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

The vacating the last 14 years would be the only way they can punish Paterno, since you can't beat a dead buried guy. I think they didn't go with the death penalty for the program only because everybody involved has been removed. Although, I would've been okay with the death penalty for the program in this case.


Well, you could. Dig him up and give him a few dozen whacks. But that would be kinda gross and smell bad...
 
2012-07-23 10:07:04 AM
. . . and may not be used to fund such programs at the university."

The unkindest cut of all.

No! NO cash for you - Let it GO!
 
2012-07-23 10:07:10 AM
I laughed a little as the NCAA guy went on and on about how "we stand for honor and integrity in collegiate sports, and the behavior of Penn State has gone beyond any bounds we ever imagined possible"

It's like he was doing it on purpose.
 
2012-07-23 10:07:20 AM
Reposted from other thread:

I think the NCAA got this right. It will cripple the football program just enough so they won't be competitive. It's a HUGE fark you to Paterno and the culture that was created at PSU. I also like making sure that the $60 million goes to victims of abuse.

/was skeptical of NCAA getting this righ
 
2012-07-23 10:07:30 AM
Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.
 
2012-07-23 10:07:51 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Confabulat: So Joe Pa is now only the 5th winningest coach in D-1 history? Eh, no wonder they tore down his statue.

Not even in the top 10.


huh, i need to find a revised list.
 
2012-07-23 10:07:57 AM
A question about the scholarships. If PSU has to reduce the number given, can other schools give more to balance things out? If the goal is to avoid punishing future students (who I think we can safely assume are innocent in all this) why leave 10 people out in the cold?
 
2012-07-23 10:08:01 AM
Ok, so how does this work? Will history now state that in the 2006 Orange Bowl, Florida State lost to blank? Or will Florida State now be recognized as the winner of the Orange Bowl?
Can we just go ahead and feed JoPa's remains to the wolves now?
 
2012-07-23 10:08:05 AM

spentmiles: Wow, notice they didn't include a lifetime coaching ban for Sandusky. How long before that scumbag is back on the sidelines? I could see him landing at Florida or even stepping up to the NFL with the Patriots once he finishes his sentence.


I give this about a 5/10. You might get some bites.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:25 AM

gimmegimme: Weigard: lohphat: Why didn't they do the same thing to Catholic school teams?

Some pedos are more equal than others it seems.

Because f*ck you, troll.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church has been facilitating child rape for decades all across the world and in some cases giving the child rapists cash bonuses?



I didn't know that the Catholic Church had a football program governed by the NCAA.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:49 AM

Confabulat: cameroncrazy1984: Confabulat: So Joe Pa is now only the 5th winningest coach in D-1 history? Eh, no wonder they tore down his statue.

Not even in the top 10.

huh, i need to find a revised list.


I think he might be top-5 in Div I-A. But if you say D-1, that includes 1A and 1AA.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:50 AM
Penn St will still win 5 games every year. Even a shiatty team can win 5 in the Big Ten. Especially when they play community colleges the first 2 weeks.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:55 AM
Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.
 
2012-07-23 10:08:57 AM

Julieahni: Nothing like pushing out an article filled with errors. Nice job, ESPN.


You were expecting actual journalism? LOL
 
2012-07-23 10:09:03 AM

kdawg7736: brobdiggy: kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.

I agree. Did Sandusky somehow give the team an onfield advantage such that the wins were illegitimate?
Hint: The answer is no.

Yeah, and despite the haters on here, we will recover and be back on top once this is all said and done. The next few years will be hard, but we will be back.


Good for you! Just try not to touch any kiddies on the way through the locker room.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:10 AM
"If they play football come September at Penn State, something's wrong."
Bob Costas, Meet the Press, July 15, 2012
 
2012-07-23 10:09:13 AM

sab6300: Endive Wombat: So Penn State has retroactively "lost" all previously won games, which does what?

I think this guy can explain retroactive changes to the past
[www.biography.com image 402x402]


I was scrolling to say that.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:14 AM

JerseyTim: dj_spanmaster: So, Bobby Bowden is once again the winningest coach in Div 1A?

Eddie Robinson. He went 408-165-15 at Gramblind.
Bobby Bowden went 377-129-4 (with 12 wins vacated) at FSU and West Virginia.


Does Grambling count? I thought those records were in a special section at the back of the record book.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:15 AM
TFA: "We cannot look to NCAA history to determine how to handle circumstances so disturbing, shocking and disappointing," Emmert said in the statement. "As the individuals charged with governing college sports, we have a responsibility to act. These events should serve as a call to every single school and athletics department to take an honest look at its campus environment and eradicate the 'sports are king' mindset that can so dramatically cloud the judgment of educators."

Called it, and good on the NCAA. They actually exceeded my expectations and figured out the "too big to fail" BS culture at PSU.

FBS schools are not entitled to due process. The NCAA is not an arm of the government; it administers sports and as such there is no authority to "abuse" in the sense of fundamental rights, because there are no fundamental rights in sports beyond what you are given by the law itself. In this case, going by the book would've given PSU too many opportunities to drag out the issue and sweep the PR damage under the rug.

kdawg7736: I can accept the other punishments but vacating the last 14 years is bs to me.


No, it's fine. As others have noted, it's mostly to destroy JoePa's record and I'm fine with it. No one will starve to death in the streets or get raped in a shower over a mere re-writing of the record books. It's the pursuit of the record books that got kids raped.

This is less about measuring the competitive advantage PSU might've gained by coddling a rapist and more about destroying the "too big to fail" culture that infected EVERY level of PSU football, from the head coach down to the fans who harassed the victims. The message is clear: Football does not matter. And it doesn't. The more PSU dug in, the more they showed that every last brick of the world they built by covering up heinous crimes needed to be destroyed.

Is PSU being made an example of? Yeah. Do we care? No. And the more anyone tries to convince the world that PSU football is more important than protecting rape victims, the less the world will care. Now, hopefully, a coach at any other FBS school will think of reporting any sexual abuse as saving the football program instead of putting it at risk, and that's a million times more important than whatever the hell PSU thinks is important.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:18 AM
I am a cynical person by nature. But this "penalty" that the NCAA imposed upon Penn State is a travesty that should outrage rational people who don't folow sports.

This penalty is nothing but a negotiated settlement that Penn State essentially bought from the NCAA in order to avoid the death penalty.This penalty will last longer than the penalty, but Penn State fans are currently wiping their brow and saying "at least we still get to play football". At a school where winning at football apparently supersedes legal statutes, this is a mere slap on the wrist.

In my opinion, Penn State's actions were the epitome of "lack of institutional control", and were so blatantly outside of acceptable standards that a long term death penalty was the only reasonable penalty.

The lesson here: college sports are all about money.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:18 AM
Wow, fooseball sure is important, huh?
 
2012-07-23 10:09:43 AM

Nabb1: AndreMA: I wonder how many innocent players whose careers the NCAA just harmed? How about just removing credit from Paterno for those wins, while allowing them to stand for the players, so as not to hurt their NFL recruitment prospects?

Talk about compounding the damage; I think the NCAA took a few too many hits to the head.

Unless they've burned the game film, this won't hurt any players' NFL prospects. NFL scouts and teams don't care so much about the team's record as much as individual skill. Good players from bad teams still get drafted and bad players from good teams don't.


Fair enough; I'm not a football fan, college or otherwise. It still seems like a douche move to retroactively alter the records of those who long since graduated, though, when they themselves had no personal responsibility for the crimes of Sandusky.

I'm in no way equating what Sandusky's victims suffered to the damage done to these players, but it seems an brain-dead response: "Sandusky did these horrible things and Paterno covered of for him. Whatever shall we do? I know! let's make a bunch more innocent victims in the whole mess!"

It's not going to happen, but what if Sandusky has his convictions overturned on appeal (and wins the inevitable retrial; the prosecutor wouldn't shrug and walk away)? Would the NCAA then say "too bad" or would they yet again attempt to alter history?
 
2012-07-23 10:09:46 AM
This is not nearly enough. Erasing those wins is completely meaningless tripe designed purely and completely for fluff to make it seem like they "did something" to Paterno.

60 million in fines will not make every other school jump up to take notice.

The bowl bans might but not really.

If you want to send a message? Ban the school from playing sports completely for four years.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:17 AM

ShereKhan: Breaking News: The NCAA also ordered Penn State to change their mascot
[i2.kym-cdn.com image 400x648]


Actually added some slight modifications: i45.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-23 10:10:24 AM
*Raises Hand*

Can Penn State just drop out of the NCAA, and keep the $60 million?

I mean the football program will no longer be economically viable, and will take over a decade to even rebuild.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:28 AM
Joe Pa may no longer be the winningest coach in college football but he is still the rapiest!
 
2012-07-23 10:10:29 AM

cameroncrazy1984: gimmegimme: So....free tattoos, accepting autograph fees and covering it up = 1 year bowl ban.
Facilitating child rape for over a decade and giving the child rapist a cash bonus and covering up multiple child rapes = 4-year bowl ban.

Does anyone really think what PSU did is only 4 times worse?

Sure, if that was the only sanction given to PSU. But it wasn't, so I'm not sure what your point is.


We usually agree on stuff, so I'll answer without snark. Who cares about the 60 million? PSU doesn't. They can find that in the couches the students will overturn when they riot. Who cares about the vacated wins? Sure, Pedoterno doesn't officially get the record, but you KNOW that many misguided PSU fans will still claim him to be #1. Plus, the guy's dead. He doesn't care. The students who were at the game still remember those games.

I just don't feel this is a big enough hammer.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:39 AM
It's the NCAA who gives a FARK ? 60 million they make 100 million a year !! Joke and Like I said who gives a flyin fark
 
2012-07-23 10:10:41 AM

Endive Wombat: ScouserDuck: Endive Wombat: FTFA: "The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning."

Can someone please explain to a non-sports fan why this is important?


At many schools the athletic department is legally separate from, and not under the control of the university administration. Some college presidents, in private, refer to it as "a professional football or basketball team, with a university attached." The schools, since Miles Brandt headed the NCAA, have been trying to regain control of the programs, and all that money the athletic foundations have been making and spending. Taking $60 mil from Penn State's athletic department has little, if no impact on the students who go there to study.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:41 AM

brobdiggy: Unintended Consequence:

*Meanwhile, at some other University*

"Holy crap! Look what the NCAA just dropped on Penn State! We'd better be extra careful now to cover up all of our legal indescretions. Delete all emails, burn all papers! Fix any 'leaks' by any means necessary! They have set a precedent now where they can punish us for any legal wrongdoing!"

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I'm still concerned it might give people an incentive to keep their mouth shut. What if someone sees a coach or administrator doing something illegal, but doesn't say anything about because they don't want to feel responsible for losing 4 years of scholarships and vacating 10+ years of wins?


Or it might make them not keep their mouths shut.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:41 AM

bwilson27: Wow, fooseball sure is important, huh?


For some kids it is a real pain in the ass.
 
2012-07-23 10:10:55 AM
I love all the people screaming they should've gotten the death penalty, idiots can't grasp this is worse than the death penalty for a year. After this PSU will be lucky to be competitive in division III for the next decade.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:27 AM
Hey guys; can we let this one go? At this point; all that is being accomplished is beating a dead horse. Yes, Sandusky was a molester. Yes, Joe Paterno and penn state really screwed up.

Let me break it to you softly; any NCAA program that says that it has never had an incident where a player or a coach took liberties with another person (read sexual assault / rape) is either extremely ignorant or being downright deceitful. The athletes in big programs have young ladies throw themselves at the athletes. And occasionally, one of these young ladies, will come to the university and say that she was taken advantage of. In 99% of these cases; the university buys the young lady's silence with free tuition.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:28 AM

steamingpile: this is worse than the death penalty


Yes it is.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:28 AM

DubyaHater: Ok, so how does this work? Will history now state that in the 2006 Orange Bowl, Florida State lost to blank? Or will Florida State now be recognized as the winner of the Orange Bowl?
Can we just go ahead and feed JoPa's remains to the wolves now?


The other team still records a loss. Penn State's records just won't reflect victories anymore. At least that's how it worked when Michigan basketball had to vacate their seasons after the Weber scandal.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:30 AM

WhoIsWillo: Paterno's legacy needed to be destroyed. He protected a child molester, and created a situation where a man was able to rape at least three children.


THIS. Paterno's "fans" need a good hard smack of reality.
This is how he should be remembered.
 
2012-07-23 10:11:39 AM

DamnYankees: Can someone, for the life of me, explain how having wins vacated is in any sense "justice" for child rape? It's not even that it's a minor punishment. It's that's its so incredibly unrelated.


The legacy of Joe Paterno.
 
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