If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Chick Fil A)   "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views" - William F Buckley   (dennyburk.com) divider line 595
    More: Obvious, Baptist Press, policy debate, rights movement, liberals  
•       •       •

2299 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jul 2012 at 11:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



595 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-07-23 11:39:03 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Do they gave married same sex couples the same employee benefits as hetero couples?


No idea. Don't think they're married.

/Do most businesses?
 
2012-07-23 11:39:42 AM
"General Franco is a national hero. It is generally conceded that he above others had the...sense of the righteousness of his cause..."

"The central question that emerges-and it is not a parliamentary question or a question that is answered by merely consulting a catalog of the rights of American citizens, born Equal-is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not predominate numerically? The sobering answer is Yes-the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race."


I'm sorry, why would any supposed adult take this dead dickbag Buckley seriously? He seems to have had every advantage in life and developed the same personal philosophy as any 3-toothed, meth-infused, wife-beating Waffle House cook.
 
2012-07-23 11:40:03 AM
Shut up Buckley, you're dead.
 
2012-07-23 11:40:31 AM

coeyagi: I support the unrestricted exchange of opposing viewpoints as long as they don't incite violence.

However, given the fascist, rights-denying nature of many of those viewpoints, I shout them down because left unchecked, they will eventually lead to violence.


Exactly, people should be protected from violent acts not from "omg *insert random group here* offends me". Because if this trend continues expect certain people to believe that their ideals on what is offensive gives them the right to incite violence.
 
2012-07-23 11:40:46 AM

Emposter: FTFA Chick-fil-A doesn't belong in Boston. You can't have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against a population... If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult - unless they open up their policies.

I have no problem with this...except that Chick Fil A has stated quite clearly that they don't discriminate. They may be bigots, but they have a right to be bigots. So long as they don't let their bigotry affect the service they give to any and all customers, the city needs to back off.

The outrage over the boycotts is amusing, however. It's always great when idiot conservatives get all up in arms because they think that they have some sort of right to not only say whatever they want, but also to be immune from the public relations fallout from having said it.


Again, I will asked, do they give the same sex spouse of their employees the same benefits they give the hetero spouses? Do they recognize ALL marriages that are legal in Massachusetts or just some?
 
2012-07-23 11:41:16 AM

Kittypie070: Shut up Buckley, you're dead.


www.wbryant.com
 
2012-07-23 11:41:52 AM

odinsposse: Freedom to speak is not freedom from criticism. I'm sorry that being a bigot has repercussions for you but you'll get over it.


absolutely. However, Mennino suggesting that he will use the power of government to punish that speech is probably not kosher. Boycotts are the way to go, not denying them licenses because of comments by their President.
 
2012-07-23 11:42:08 AM
I want to hear the political views of all corporations, so I can decide if I want to do business with them.
 
2012-07-23 11:42:39 AM

theknuckler_33: [1.gravatar.com image 80x80]

It must be a requirement for right-wing bloggers to look like smug douchebags.


And yet it's the Libs who are Smug and Sneering.
 
2012-07-23 11:43:46 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Do you see how this is going? You don't even have to mention homosexuality or gay marriage. All you have to say is that you are pro-family, and certain municipalities will exile your business. Welcome to the brave new world of tolerance.

Maybe stop equating "pro-family" with "anti-gay", then.

You're intolerant of my intolerance!


black people should NOT be allowed to married white people - but I'm not racist by the way, that's just what I believe.
 
2012-07-23 11:43:48 AM
Liberals are like this, but conservatives are all like this.
 
2012-07-23 11:45:12 AM

skullkrusher: odinsposse: Freedom to speak is not freedom from criticism. I'm sorry that being a bigot has repercussions for you but you'll get over it.

absolutely. However, Mennino suggesting that he will use the power of government to punish that speech is probably not kosher. Boycotts are the way to go, not denying them licenses because of comments by their President.


Bingo. Denying a business license to any business that is in full compliance with the law is wrong, no matter how reprehensible the ethics and moral code of the president running it.
 
2012-07-23 11:45:17 AM
Wait, so it IS because conservatives are too dumb to understand what tolerance means?
 
2012-07-23 11:45:22 AM

Emposter: I have no problem with this...except that Chick Fil A has stated quite clearly that they don't discriminate.


According to press reports, the company has been sued about a dozen times for employment discrimination, sometimes based on religion. According to Forbes, a former restaurant operator who is Muslim sued in 2002, alleging he was fired for not participating in a Christian prayer at a company training program. The company also has faced some boycott efforts tied to accusations that it is anti-gay, a charge it denies.

The company said it has withstood all claims that its franchisees are employees. Otherwise, in its dealings with operators, Chick-fil-A would have been subject to federal employment discrimination restrictions and other occupational rules that don't apply to independent contractors.


And also:
According to the July 23rd issue of Forbes magazine:
- The company's corporate mission is to "glorify god;"
- Meetings and retreats include Christian prayers and employees have been fired for not participating;
- Employees and contractors must base their business practices on biblical principles;
- The company asks about marital status in employment interviews and only hires married people;
- The company interviews family members, including children; and
- The company would fire employees who do something "sinful;"


I think Boston should let them open a restaurant in the city, and have an inspector there every minute the store is open with a camera and a phone with the AG on speed dial.
 
2012-07-23 11:45:50 AM
Just because we libs practice "Tolerance" does not mean we implement in the moronic one dimensional way these idiots think we do:

Jews: tolerate!
abortions: tolerate!
being discriminated against: tolerate!
being attacked: tolerate!
having all your rights rescinded and turned into a slave: tolerate!
being physically attacked with the intent to kill: tolerate!

I'll say it a million times, "Tolerance" doesn't mean you simply tolerate things. It's a philosophical view that other cultural and religious groups should be free from impediments and have all their rights. Trying to deny rights to someone is the exact opposite of this view. The fact that people try to get gay people their deserved rights steps on some Christian's toes IS NOT INTOLERANCE.
 
2012-07-23 11:45:54 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Emposter: FTFA Chick-fil-A doesn't belong in Boston. You can't have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against a population... If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult - unless they open up their policies.

I have no problem with this...except that Chick Fil A has stated quite clearly that they don't discriminate. They may be bigots, but they have a right to be bigots. So long as they don't let their bigotry affect the service they give to any and all customers, the city needs to back off.

The outrage over the boycotts is amusing, however. It's always great when idiot conservatives get all up in arms because they think that they have some sort of right to not only say whatever they want, but also to be immune from the public relations fallout from having said it.

Again, I will asked, do they give the same sex spouse of their employees the same benefits they give the hetero spouses? Do they recognize ALL marriages that are legal in Massachusetts or just some?


You tell me.
 
2012-07-23 11:46:23 AM

slayer199: flaEsq: Conservatives nauseate and offend with their vile hate but piss and moan when held to account.

There's accountability in the open market. But when Boston's mayor says they don't have a right to open a business in his city, that goes too far. That is not very tolerant.

The bottom line is if the company doesn't discriminate in hiring practices or serving customers, then the government has no business telling them they can or can't operate a business.


Good on the mayor. Boston has a long sordid history of discrimination. If this vendor didn't come pre-packaged in a bigoted wrapper it wouldn't have this accountability problem.
 
2012-07-23 11:46:54 AM

Rincewind53: But I'm horrified to agree with Buckley about what Mayor Menino said. It's actually not okay for the mayor of Boston to say that (essentially) any business that publically opposes gay marriage will not be allowed to open in the city.

To recap: private opposition to private corporation's political use of funds = great, public opposition to private corporation's political use of funds = censorship.



Still...it's not accurate. Censorship requires active suppression of speech. Menino wasn't preventing Chick-fil-a from expressing their views. You could argue that his actions would have a chilling effect on speech which is accurate. However, Menino does have a civic duty to represent the people of Boston and allowing a business to operate in the city, which they uses money from its corporate coffers to fund advocacy efforts to encourage and legally codify discriminatory practices, would run counter to his mandate. Allowing such a company to operate freely would have a negative impact on the civic health of the city and its polity.
 
2012-07-23 11:47:01 AM

Death_Poot: vernonFL: Chik Fil a is entitled to their views and opinions and that is fine, if they want to give money to anti-gay groups, go ahead.

And I won't eat there.

I'll eat there anyway because I like their food and I don't care what political/religious beliefs they have.


What if one of their views affected you directly? Would you still eat there?
 
2012-07-23 11:47:13 AM

Pants full of macaroni!!: theknuckler_33: [1.gravatar.com image 80x80]

It must be a requirement for right-wing bloggers to look like smug douchebags.

And yet it's the Libs who are Smug and Sneering.


ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com
"Indeed" was Rush's sneering reply.
 
2012-07-23 11:47:38 AM

Serious Black: skullkrusher: odinsposse: Freedom to speak is not freedom from criticism. I'm sorry that being a bigot has repercussions for you but you'll get over it.

absolutely. However, Mennino suggesting that he will use the power of government to punish that speech is probably not kosher. Boycotts are the way to go, not denying them licenses because of comments by their President.

Bingo. Denying a business license to any business that is in full compliance with the law is wrong, no matter how reprehensible the ethics and moral code of the president running it.


and I believe we're done here
 
2012-07-23 11:48:18 AM

beta_plus: So let me get this straight - banning the construction of a Mosque is OMG TEH FASCIST HITLER RACIST NAZIS!! but banning the construction of a Chick-Fil-A for its Christian beliefs is A-OK!

/just want to make sure that I only seize the property rights of the wrong kind of white people to comply with the tolerance police


Leviticus (where gay hate in the bible comes from) existed about 400-500 years before Christianity existed. I don't think you can call a sentense by a tribe prior to the existence of Christianity, a "christian belief." Call it a "christian excuse" if you want, but it isn't a belief.
 
2012-07-23 11:48:30 AM
It strike me that the defining characteristic of conservatives is a lack of imagination - the inability to take evidence or data and project it out even a single step. Hence, evolution isn't real because of gaps in the fossil record, global warming isn't real because it's snowing today, we don't need to reform health care because they've always had insurance, people did make their business all by themselves and all those roads just magically appeared, abortions are all immoral until needing one is staring them personally in the face. And finally, this guy never mentioned gay marriage, he just said:

We are very much supportive of the family - the biblical definition of the family unit.

which is of course a completely different thing. He was in no way making a reference to gay marriage.
 
2012-07-23 11:48:38 AM
It's been a long while since I read the Bible - just what is "the biblical definition of the family unit"?
 
2012-07-23 11:49:38 AM
Liberal: "I would like to hear a dissenting view."
Conservative: "SHUT UP LIBS!"
Liberal: "That's not really a dissenting view, that's trying to shout me down..."
Conservative: "LIEbrals are intolerant of intolerance! Hypocrites! SHUT UP LIBS!"

Basically the issue is that, naturally, political opponents occupy mutually incompatible frameworks. After all, they wouldn't be opponents if they agreed on any fundamental concepts. They're both going to view the other as idiots in each other's frameworks. The fact that one framework is objectively worse by the metrics of a commensurate framework is generally irrelevant. The issue is that there is an equilibrium between two strategies, one of direct resistance to the political goals of the opposing team, and one of dissolving resistance to the political goals of one's own team. So certainly liberals want to hear other views: nothing reinforces confidence in liberalism quite like exposure to conservatism.
 
2012-07-23 11:50:21 AM

Theaetetus: Emposter: I have no problem with this...except that Chick Fil A has stated quite clearly that they don't discriminate.

According to press reports, the company has been sued about a dozen times for employment discrimination, sometimes based on religion. According to Forbes, a former restaurant operator who is Muslim sued in 2002, alleging he was fired for not participating in a Christian prayer at a company training program. The company also has faced some boycott efforts tied to accusations that it is anti-gay, a charge it denies.

The company said it has withstood all claims that its franchisees are employees. Otherwise, in its dealings with operators, Chick-fil-A would have been subject to federal employment discrimination restrictions and other occupational rules that don't apply to independent contractors.

And also:
According to the July 23rd issue of Forbes magazine:
- The company's corporate mission is to "glorify god;"
- Meetings and retreats include Christian prayers and employees have been fired for not participating;
- Employees and contractors must base their business practices on biblical principles;
- The company asks about marital status in employment interviews and only hires married people;
- The company interviews family members, including children; and
- The company would fire employees who do something "sinful;"

I think Boston should let them open a restaurant in the city, and have an inspector there every minute the store is open with a camera and a phone with the AG on speed dial.


Sounds pretty scummy, but also sounds like nobody's been able to stick anything to Chick Fil A. I like your inspector plan...get some hard evidence of illegal employment discrimination, and then some concrete State action can be taken.
 
2012-07-23 11:50:40 AM

Emposter: Philip Francis Queeg: Emposter: FTFA Chick-fil-A doesn't belong in Boston. You can't have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against a population... If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult - unless they open up their policies.

I have no problem with this...except that Chick Fil A has stated quite clearly that they don't discriminate. They may be bigots, but they have a right to be bigots. So long as they don't let their bigotry affect the service they give to any and all customers, the city needs to back off.

The outrage over the boycotts is amusing, however. It's always great when idiot conservatives get all up in arms because they think that they have some sort of right to not only say whatever they want, but also to be immune from the public relations fallout from having said it.

Again, I will asked, do they give the same sex spouse of their employees the same benefits they give the hetero spouses? Do they recognize ALL marriages that are legal in Massachusetts or just some?

You tell me.


You were the one repeating their claim that they don't discriminate.
 
2012-07-23 11:51:50 AM
I think it's funny that Leviticus was the head priest of a tribe called the Levites. This is where alter priests were drawn from. Isn't it always the case that the ones who are the most vocal against something are always the ones doing it in secret?

Homosexuality is an abomination! Now excuse me I have a boy waiting in my chambers to purify.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:07 AM

skullkrusher: Serious Black: skullkrusher: odinsposse: Freedom to speak is not freedom from criticism. I'm sorry that being a bigot has repercussions for you but you'll get over it.

absolutely. However, Mennino suggesting that he will use the power of government to punish that speech is probably not kosher. Boycotts are the way to go, not denying them licenses because of comments by their President.

Bingo. Denying a business license to any business that is in full compliance with the law is wrong, no matter how reprehensible the ethics and moral code of the president running it.

and I believe we're done here


This is the Politics tab; nothing is ever done here unless the modmins say it is done!
 
2012-07-23 11:52:27 AM

flaEsq: Good on the mayor. Boston has a long sordid history of discrimination. If this vendor didn't come pre-packaged in a bigoted wrapper it wouldn't have this accountability problem.


The business does not discriminate in hiring or serving customers. The owner expressed an opinion based on a religious belief that he was pro-family. Please explain how the government has a right to deny them from doing business in the city.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:49 AM
Ok, without the New Testament, the Bible is basically just a Jewish book, right? The whole thing that makes Christians different is Jesus - Christ, the name is right there in "Christians."

So, I challenge any Christian to point out where in the Bible Jesus himself specifically spoke out against homosexuality.

Not one of his apostles, not the Old Testament, not a vague reference. Jesus himself.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:57 AM
Under the Mass. Fair Employment Practices Law, sexual orientation is a protected class. Employers may not ask questions regarding marital status that are not related to a bona fide occupational qualification. Additionally, employers cannot ask questions regarding religious creed, except for religious organizations as defined in 804 CMR 3.01(7)(a). Employers may not ask any questions regarding sexuality.

Allow Chick-fil-A to remodel and set up the store.
Then close it down on day 1.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:59 AM

Philip Francis Queeg:
You were the one repeating their claim that they don't discriminate.



The burden of proof generally doesn't work that way.
 
2012-07-23 11:52:59 AM
If you actively oppose gay issues and rights through your "charity" arm (Link), saying your company is simply Pro Family is deceptive PR BS at best.
 
2012-07-23 11:54:37 AM

zarberg: So, I challenge any Christian to point out where in the Bible Jesus himself specifically spoke out against homosexuality.


He didn't, and that's why a growing number of Christians honestly could not care less about this issue. At most, it goes in the category with extra-marital affairs and such.
 
2012-07-23 11:54:49 AM

Serious Black: skullkrusher: Serious Black: skullkrusher: odinsposse: Freedom to speak is not freedom from criticism. I'm sorry that being a bigot has repercussions for you but you'll get over it.

absolutely. However, Mennino suggesting that he will use the power of government to punish that speech is probably not kosher. Boycotts are the way to go, not denying them licenses because of comments by their President.

Bingo. Denying a business license to any business that is in full compliance with the law is wrong, no matter how reprehensible the ethics and moral code of the president running it.

and I believe we're done here

This is the Politics tab; nothing is ever done here unless the modmins say it is done!


in that case, I think they should be allowed to open and then harassed by government officials because of their bullshiat, yet protected, speech
 
2012-07-23 11:55:23 AM

fracto73: Philip Francis Queeg:
You were the one repeating their claim that they don't discriminate.


The burden of proof generally doesn't work that way.


It's a farking question. One that people clearly do not want to answer.
 
2012-07-23 11:55:45 AM
Oooh, here's another idea. Let them open the store, and then have every gay-straight alliance at the local high schools and colleges take turns flooding the stores with people who (i) make no purchases; and (ii) apply for jobs. Have a fire inspector on hand to ensure that the stores don't get overcrowded.
With the number of schools around here, you could go months without letting a legitimate customer in, and the potential for employment discrimination shenanigans is huge.
 
2012-07-23 11:55:54 AM
Hey guys, I'm for "states rights"

What, you think that's about slavery? NO WAY!

It's just STATES RIGHTS

Okay?

Good, now stop calling me racist!
 
2012-07-23 11:56:49 AM
[shares catnip with Jackson]

[does not share catnip with Buckley, who is still dead]
 
2012-07-23 11:56:56 AM

Theaetetus: Oooh, here's another idea. Let them open the store, and then have every gay-straight alliance at the local high schools and colleges take turns flooding the stores with people who (i) make no purchases; and (ii) apply for jobs. Have a fire inspector on hand to ensure that the stores don't get overcrowded.
With the number of schools around here, you could go months without letting a legitimate customer in, and the potential for employment discrimination shenanigans is huge.


If there's any place that's ready, willing, and able to make something like that happen, it's Boston.
 
2012-07-23 11:58:26 AM
see, if the gays were farking chickens, the right would be all supportive of 'em.
 
2012-07-23 11:58:46 AM

slayer199: tomWright: Let the customers decide.

That about sums it up. It's not up to politicians to decide. They don't discriminate on hiring practices or in serving customers. They have a right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. If you don't like it, don't eat there....



And yet cities all over America have prevented companies like Wal-Mart from setting up stores. Why not the same outrage?

How dare politicians not accept my business if I'm a bigot. Why are they oppressing me and my bigoted views?

I should be free to express my bigoted opinion and use profits to stop gays from having basic rights and you should be forced to allow me to do business in your city because FREEDOM

/makes sense...
 
2012-07-23 11:58:59 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Emposter: Philip Francis Queeg: Emposter: FTFA Chick-fil-A doesn't belong in Boston. You can't have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against a population... If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult - unless they open up their policies.

I have no problem with this...except that Chick Fil A has stated quite clearly that they don't discriminate. They may be bigots, but they have a right to be bigots. So long as they don't let their bigotry affect the service they give to any and all customers, the city needs to back off.

The outrage over the boycotts is amusing, however. It's always great when idiot conservatives get all up in arms because they think that they have some sort of right to not only say whatever they want, but also to be immune from the public relations fallout from having said it.

Again, I will asked, do they give the same sex spouse of their employees the same benefits they give the hetero spouses? Do they recognize ALL marriages that are legal in Massachusetts or just some?

You tell me.

You were the one repeating their claim that they don't discriminate.


And you're the one asking other people to do your research for you. If you don't like the uncontested assertion in the article, try taking a page out of Theaetetus' book and find your own information.
 
2012-07-23 11:59:08 AM
I wonder if everyone on Fark would be as outraged if a company wanted to build its business on the principles of Islam.
 
2012-07-23 11:59:57 AM
Obligs.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-23 12:00:05 PM

JK47: However, Menino does have a civic duty to represent the people of Boston and allowing a business to operate in the city, which they uses money from its corporate coffers to fund advocacy efforts to encourage and legally codify discriminatory practices, would run counter to his mandate. Allowing such a company to operate freely would have a negative impact on the civic health of the city and its polity.


Oh, so you're for the government deciding the fate of a business that does not violate laws on discrimination, simply because the owner expresses a viewpoint based on a religious belief? You know what other regime restricted businesses based on religious viewpoints of their owners?

I don't agree with the owner, but I'll will defend his right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion, and to operate a business (I won't eat there) as his business does NOT discriminate (therefore does not violate any state or federal laws).

I'm all for the free market deciding the fate of Chik-Fil-A in Boston...NOT the government. Citizens are free to march, boycott or whatever...it's NOT the government's domain to determine the consequence of freedom of speech...THAT is up to the people.
 
2012-07-23 12:00:07 PM
Having an opinion or a belief is not the problem.

The problem is setting up laws/rules/business practices that allow you to inflict your personal opinion/belief on others who do not share that opinion/belief.

In this case Chick-Fil-A treats employees who are in male-female married relationships differently than it treats gay couples (legally married or not). This means that all employees are doing the same work, but some benefit more from that work than others. By definition unfair. And it should be illegal. But since it's not, it can just be pointed out as a douchebag practice and they can be held accountable by the market for it.
 
2012-07-23 12:00:19 PM

Theaetetus: Oooh, here's another idea. Let them open the store, and then have every gay-straight alliance at the local high schools and colleges take turns flooding the stores with people who (i) make no purchases; and (ii) apply for jobs. Have a fire inspector on hand to ensure that the stores don't get overcrowded.
With the number of schools around here, you could go months without letting a legitimate customer in, and the potential for employment discrimination shenanigans is huge.


I like this a lot.
 
2012-07-23 12:00:37 PM

skullkrusher: odinsposse: Freedom to speak is not freedom from criticism. I'm sorry that being a bigot has repercussions for you but you'll get over it.

absolutely. However, Mennino suggesting that he will use the power of government to punish that speech is probably not kosher. Boycotts are the way to go, not denying them licenses because of comments by their President.


It's no different than the city of Seattle refusing to allow Walmart to open any stores within city limits.
 
Displayed 50 of 595 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report