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(Arizona Star)   K-9 doesn't find any drugs in the car during the traffic stop? No problem, allow him to roam a nearby unrelated residence until he does find some, in a shed you searched that has nothing to do with the car you pulled over   (azstarnet.com) divider line 51
    More: Stupid, drug dog, traffic stops, Pima County  
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14216 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 3:09 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-07-23 03:52:48 AM
3 votes:
whats really neat - is you have to take the handlers word for it, that the dog alerted in the first place

just having the dog present - in effect - provides probable cause
2012-07-23 03:26:32 AM
3 votes:
10 bucks says the traffic stop was staged next to the house in question for this very reason.
2012-07-23 03:08:16 AM
3 votes:

Frederick: I imagine the cop knew the house belonged to the people in the car and led the dog that way intentionally.


That's quite a leap.

I imagine 400 pounds of pot might have a slight aroma to it and the cop smelled it and thought it was coming from the car he just pulled over. He let the dog try to sniff it out and the dog, having a much keener sense of smell, was all like "you dumb farking human - the pot's not in the car, it's over here!"

And while I think pot should be legal and no one should even be fined for possession or "manufacture" the current law says it is illegal and the cop did his job. No "hero" tag for the cop doing his job?
2012-07-23 12:43:09 AM
3 votes:

Frederick: There a many people, people who vote, who consider drug dealer to be in that same category as murderers and rapists.


Those people are wrong.
2012-07-23 09:25:38 AM
2 votes:
The amount of resources the police department uses for pot is a joke. They have limited resources and don't need to prioritize marijuana as one of the highest things on their list. That is why the police are just as at fault if not more than the asshats who pass laws.
2012-07-23 08:46:22 AM
2 votes:

MDGeist: I wish alcohol was illegal and as venomously hunted down as pot is by police. So many people would still be alive instead of killed on the road by some drunk fark.


Uhm...wrong. Go study the effects of Prohibition. Go on, I'll wait.

There were kids selling alcohol, just like kids selling stuff today. I know this does not happen on every corner in the ghetto, but its been known to happen, yes.

There was no availability problems whatsoever, have you ever heard of anyone really complaining they never got hooch during Prohibition? Nope. Same as today.

There were enormous profits to be derived from the manufacture and sale of Illegal Liquor, which helped organized crime expand.

At least one state I know of had a '3 strikes' type law. Michigan had a 4 time felony law, known as the 'Life for a pint' law.



In the name of keeping people safe from drugs (a health issue, not a criminal one) the 4th amendment was basically gutted in 1986. Thus we began the slow slide into the modern day police state we see today.

Prohibition never works, will never work, and only serves to give more power to the state and less rights to individuals. Petty pointy head morons having power over YOU is not the way to go.

Drugs/Alcohol are medical issues, not criminal ones. When you make them criminal issues then everyone becomes a criminal, because most everyone uses some sort of drug. There is no way to know exact figures, but I'd guess (strictly my own opinion here) if you include prescription drugs its most everyone in the US.
2012-07-23 08:08:40 AM
2 votes:
Not only are dogs used to create probable cause they also react to their handlers suspicions.

They are wrong 50% of the time EXCEPT for Mexicans it jumps to over 70% wrong.
(no the dogs are not racist the handlers tend to be more suspicious of Mexicans)

There at least needs to be some sort of penalty given for searches that provide nothing - when a canine was used to create the probable cause.
1k cash on the spot to the victim of the search for a vehicle and 1k per room of a home.

It's just an excuse to search anytime a cop feels like it and to blame the dog when nothing is found.
2012-07-23 08:07:25 AM
2 votes:
I wish alcohol was illegal and as venomously hunted down as pot is by police. So many people would still be alive instead of killed on the road by some drunk fark.
2012-07-23 06:58:58 AM
2 votes:
Those dogs are wrong 50% of the time and are just used as an excuse to conduct illegal searches.

The officer can't say I am suspicious so want to look through your things but he can say my DOG is suspicious so I will look through your things.
2012-07-23 06:29:41 AM
2 votes:

ChasingPi: when most of fark is obviously high, it might be time to legalize the shiat. The argument against legalizing it, is all the crazy shiat most the high people of fark tend to say or hint they are willing to do to get the shiat legal, like vote for sociopathic Ron Paul

money, money, the for-profit Prison-Industrial Complex and money.

/FTFY.
2012-07-23 06:26:05 AM
2 votes:
If this is allowed to happen then expect that the cops can walk the K9 up and down any street anywhere and wait for the dog to smell something of interest.

Just legalize it already and stop destroying people's lives and spending so much of our money.
2012-07-23 01:55:55 AM
2 votes:
IDK, if the dog alerted on the fence on his own (like, "hey master, there's nothing in the car but this fence smells mighty interesting"), and this was used to support probable cause for a warrant, I bet nothing gets excluded and they're all boned.

Good faith doctrine, etc.

If the cop, frustrated at getting skunked on the car, took the dog to the nearby house and had him start sniffing, and they searched the shed with no warrant, then maybe exclusions (except for the woman caught with meth -- if she doesn't live there, she may have no standing to contest the legality of her arrest).
2012-07-23 12:45:42 AM
2 votes:

dudemanbro: Frederick: There a many people, people who vote, who consider drug dealer to be in that same category as murderers and rapists.

Those people are wrong.


They are indeed. They're also the same sort of people who keep reelecting Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
2012-07-23 12:45:02 AM
2 votes:

cman: Oh HELL no

This search was way beyond unreasonable.

This is complete bullshiat.

fark, I dont know how to express myself at this disgrace


Unreasonable? It doesn't say enough in the article to conclude that. FTA: "Deputies eventually searched a shed at the home and found the marijuana." They may have made contact with the residents and obtained enough evidence to obtain a search warrant, or they may have obtained consent to search the shed. Either of those scenarios would have been a perfectly legal search.
2012-07-23 12:37:30 AM
2 votes:
Someone's lawyer is filing a motion to exclude...
2012-07-23 12:34:30 AM
2 votes:

cman: Deportation is a given, yeah. Bunch of bullshiat over weed. He didnt rape, he didnt murder, he didnt rob, yet he will be deported.


There a many people, people who vote, who consider drug dealer to be in that same category as murderers and rapists.
2012-07-23 12:08:10 AM
2 votes:
Oh HELL no

This search was way beyond unreasonable.

This is complete bullshiat.

fark, I dont know how to express myself at this disgrace
2012-07-23 12:07:04 AM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: The funny part is that the cop smelled grass in the car but the dog didn't.


Personally, I smell bullshiat
2012-07-23 03:46:32 PM
1 votes:

fnorgby: The theory for a dog sniff bring the basis for probable cause for a warrant is that a magistrate reviews the evidence, taking the decision to search or not out of the cops' hands. That's enough protection, says the SCOTUS, from the " general warrant" used in colonial days.

This is a perfect example of why high schools should teach con law. It doesn't remotely work the way people assume it does.


That'd be great if the Magistrate wasn't working with the police force. They are supposed to be separate. They aren't anymore. The magistrate just rubber stamps what the cop says and let the chips fall where they may. Its sad.
2012-07-23 01:55:09 PM
1 votes:
CruiserTwelve:

Also,
FTLink: "Dog/handler teams correctly completed a search with no alerts in just 21 of the 144 walk-throughs. The other 123 searches produced an astounding 225 alerts, every one of them false." 123 false hits on 144 walk-throughs = 85.4% false positive alert, aka, 14.6% of the time they were correct

Any comment?
2012-07-23 12:03:58 PM
1 votes:

Gr8Zen: As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain site, extended to a dog, who is generally considered a fully-fledged officer.

Let's say an officer pulls over a car, finds nothing, but then looks at an nearby property and sees a giant greenhouse filled with cultivated marijuana plants. I doubt anyone here would have (legal) problems with that officer making a bust on that pot, which was clearly visible to him from the road. The pot in that shed was essentially just as visible to the dog as the greenhouse would be to a human officer.


jazzroc.files.wordpress.com
2012-07-23 09:45:33 AM
1 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: But take ANY tool that requires a technician to read it or calibrate it - and there is opportunity to cheat. I can adjust a scale so that it's heavy or light. That doesn't mean scales don't work.


It's not just a matter of calibration though. In studied, drug dogs have shown anywhere from a 44% to dismal 14.6% success rate (123 failures in 144 searches) - citation.

Using drug dogs, especially as the *primary* means to determine probable cause, is inherently flawed. As a tool to search once a warrant is obtained? Sure, great, go ahead, they work great there. But walking house to house to determine where to search, like you suggested? Awful idea.

As for BAC meters, well, their accuracy isn't all that great either, but they are still better than the drug dog's

And yes, the drug dog did net some massive dealers here. I would argue, of course without knowing the full story, that it is somewhat irrelevant. The exclusionary rule is important, for a reason.
2012-07-23 09:15:01 AM
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: BarkingUnicorn: The funny part is that the cop smelled grass in the car but the dog didn't.

Personally, I smell bullshiat


Read "we had no probable cause to search the house, so we pulled a car over near it, and then manufactured probable cause." How hard is it to understand that this was, indeed, an unreasonable search?
2012-07-23 09:12:06 AM
1 votes:
I wish there was an example of a country that had decided against a Drug War...if only there was some working model
that we could study to see what would happen...

Oh, here is one....
2012-07-23 09:08:21 AM
1 votes:
This is getting ridiculous. They new the damn house sold weed. They didn't want to out their informant, so they made up this fake stop. "Oh look we just happened to get lucky with the dog" I know the cops think we're stupid but man this is a farce.
2012-07-23 09:07:15 AM
1 votes:

SkunkWerks: Nor is letting people run amok on the assurance that "they mean well" or "they'll straighten out eventually".



Thats true, someone in the depth of a week long Meth binge is pretty farked in the head. But to make them a criminal vs. giving them medical help is two totally different things.

We as a nation are happy to criminalize folks at the drop of a hat, to serve the Prison Industrial Complex. In my opinion a Prison should be run as a non-profit entity, and we should be giving out for free help to anyone who wants to get off any addicted/habitual use of a substance.

Potheads are not the problem. Meth is an ugly drug and its not really the issue, either. Its the legality they are bound up in that makes for such massive social problems.

But, as long as there is money in it to harass users and persecute them, then the assholes in power will do it. We will never ever win a war on drugs.

Ive said it a few times, its not a war on drugs anyway. Its clearly a war on people.

Cops are cowards (some of them, yep) so they want to attack passive potheads instead of going after the raging methed out loony.

And dumb ass sheep keep voting for politicians that are 'strong on drugs', meanwhile everyone is kept stupid with lots of 'script drugs and another drug thats everywhere yet never addressed as one and its quite mind-numbing: Television.
2012-07-23 08:36:21 AM
1 votes:

MDGeist: I wish alcohol was illegal and as venomously hunted down as pot is by police. So many people would still be alive instead of killed on the road by some drunk fark.


There's too many people in the world as it is. Tough DUI laws arent for saving lives, they're for saving insurance companies money

/same with seat belt laws.
2012-07-23 07:51:45 AM
1 votes:

Captain_Ballbeard: /waiting for drugs to fight back in the war.


Read 'The Botany of Desire.'

The drugs already WON the war.
2012-07-23 07:15:45 AM
1 votes:
Everybody who has been to Ajo, AZ raise your hand!!
this is a small dumpy desert town. I went there once as a kid with my friend and his parents. It was the hottest, driest, most desolate experience of my life.
the town is so small, I guarantee you that the cops knew about this house but never had Probable Cause. having a reason to be onscene with a dog that just happened to hit on the fence, booyah, they said.
2012-07-23 06:52:58 AM
1 votes:
Moral of this story: If you have 400lbs of pot in your shed, drive a couple of blocks away from your home when the cops pull you over in your car.
2012-07-23 06:18:01 AM
1 votes:
when most of fark is obviously high, it might be time to legalize the shiat. The argument against legalizing it, is all the crazy shiat most the high people of fark tend to say or hint they are willing to do to get the shiat legal, like vote for sociopathic Ron Paul.
2012-07-23 06:16:35 AM
1 votes:

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Happy Hours:
Yeah, yeah yeah - you sounds stupid when you start ranting about making clothing and paper out of hemp. Sure, it's not just for "getting stupid" but I think it's done that to you.

Person A: factual statement

Person B: "you're stupid!"

Person Me: "Person B is stupid."


What I'm trying to tell you is you sound like some naive stoner fresh out of high school when you start talking about the wonders of the cannabis plant in order to support the legalization of marijuana for recreational use.

Yes, hemp can be used for a lot of purposes (some of which you mentioned) but what you really care about is that you can buy it legally so you can get high. I didn't say you were stupid, I said you sound stupid.

Hemp can be legally grown in a number of countries and yet I don't see all these hemp products making a big impact on the market even though it's perfectly legal to import them into the US.
2012-07-23 05:52:06 AM
1 votes:

Choadzilla: I have another theory...

Known (to the locals) drug holding spot... Ahole, Arizona

Rosco P. Coltrain "stumbles" on 430lbs of pot and not a single bank note?

????????

I think we have probable cause for a financial investigation of EVERYONE that works in the department.


That is actually MORE interesting than the fact that they stumbled on so much weed. Either that, or they failed to post how much money they found. Even money either way.
2012-07-23 05:47:23 AM
1 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: Frederick: Fark_Guy_Rob: Regardless.....it is currently illegal. A cop caught someone doing something illegal. I don't have a problem with this.

I wonder what illegal things could be found in your home if a cop were to look?

Let's be realistic here....

There are many laws. And they are not equal. Jaywalking is illegal. Murder is illegal. To say that one is the same as the other is retarded b.s.....400 pounds of weed, meth, and an illegal alien is pretty extremely illegal.

You'd have to look pretty hard and get awfully creative to find anything criminal in my house. Yes, there are blanket laws that can be applied to just about anyone or anything - I'm sure a chemist could make a nice bomb out of things found in my house. If you have a problem with that - let's address that issue by getting rid of b.s. laws. Maybe you think 400 pounds of weed, meth, and illegal immigrants are all cool - then that's fine.

But that still doesn't make this an abuse of power or corrupt cops.

As the laws stand, they seem to have done a fine job. I'm pro-weed and pro-meth; but until the laws change - I don't have either. I'm anti-immigrants though.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not disparaging yours. I consider myself to be an old time libertarian; so yeah -I am cool with drugs, even immigrants (I dont believe anyone should have to qualify to live in the US).

I vehemently oppose victim-less crimes, which I consider drug laws to be, so I am particularly sensitive to those.

I understand the "if you disagree with a law, work to change it" theory, and I agree in principle. But when the will of the people is flagrantly dismissed; such as state pot laws trumped by federal pot laws (among many other injustices), I think it is appropriate to engage in civil disobedience -meaning I imbibe.

I disagree with you on the abuse of power. I think 4th amendment rights especially are being routinely and systematically violated in the name of the war on drugs. I havent read enough on this case to go so far as to say corrupt cops. I'm considering overly entitled cops.

\I appreciate the mature conversation -refreshing (no snark)
2012-07-23 05:30:53 AM
1 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: If every cop in the country wants to walk around America with drug-sniffing dogs and use it to catch people doing drugs illegally - awesome.


Well, since drug dog accuracy seems to be about 50%, I have a problem with this. Might as well have cops walk around house to house flipping a coin. "Heads, not this one. Tails, GOGOGO!!!"

The truth is, drug dogs can alert on nothing, more often than most police officers would like to admit. Of course, some states train their dogs to alert off things other than drugs, just to provide probable cause.
2012-07-23 05:04:47 AM
1 votes:

ReapTheChaos: 10 bucks says the traffic stop was staged next to the house in question for this very reason.


^^^this^^^

Just happened to do a traffic stop of a woman from the house. In front of the house, the house that just happened to have had 430lbs of weed in a shed. Plus drugs in the house and an illegal.
They knew, probably bad info and they were expecting her to have traffic levels of drugs in her car that they would use to justify a search of her home. Didn't happen that way so they improvised.
2012-07-23 04:49:18 AM
1 votes:
I have another theory...

Known (to the locals) drug holding spot... Ahole, Arizona

Rosco P. Coltrain "stumbles" on 430lbs of pot and not a single bank note?

????????

I think we have probable cause for a financial investigation of EVERYONE that works in the department.
2012-07-23 04:42:46 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: bindlestiff2600: whats really neat - is you have to take the handlers word for it, that the dog alerted in the first place

just having the dog present - in effect - provides probable cause

Precisely. And it's not like the defense in a trial can cross examine the K9. It's a very self affirming procedure.


And the dog is quite likely well trained inasmuch as it won't alert on non-drugs unless prompted by the handler, so subjecting the dog to a blind test won't help. (Good luck raising even a reasonable doubt that the dog was prompted.)
2012-07-23 04:26:07 AM
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org

Has no comment
2012-07-23 04:23:10 AM
1 votes:

Frederick:
How do you feel about a drugs dogs ability to gain probable cause for searches?


I think it's totally farking stupid.
2012-07-23 03:59:41 AM
1 votes:

bindlestiff2600: whats really neat - is you have to take the handlers word for it, that the dog alerted in the first place

just having the dog present - in effect - provides probable cause


Precisely. And it's not like the defense in a trial can cross examine the K9. It's a very self affirming procedure.
2012-07-23 03:43:35 AM
1 votes:

Passive Aggressive Larry: Isn't a drug dog's interest in something enough for probable cause to search, or is that just something that some paranoid stoner told me once while we were getting high? My memory of it is....hazy.


Yes, it has held up in the courts despite the controversy regarding false positives, "leading" techniques, and the inability to face your accuser in court. I find the use of drug dog "interest" as probable cause a usurpation of rights violating the 4th amendment. But the war on drugs has trumped a lot of rights.

How do you feel about a drugs dogs ability to gain probable cause for searches?
2012-07-23 03:40:22 AM
1 votes:
shiat like this will be over soon. Well, in Colorado at least.
2012-07-23 03:38:21 AM
1 votes:
I'll second the staged stop theory. Awfully convenient that the car was stopped near the drivers house, which happened to contain drugs, while the car did not.
2012-07-23 03:34:44 AM
1 votes:

insertsnarkyusername: Why even if the scenario went the way you described would the cop be a hero?


People seem fond of labeling cops heroes when they do their job.
2012-07-23 01:02:40 AM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: Bathia_Mapes: Just imagine how worse it would have been if this happened in Maricopa County. Sheriff Joe would have a field day.

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2012-07-23 12:47:28 AM
1 votes:

cman: Oh HELL no

This search was way beyond unreasonable.


Forget it jake, it's Arizona.
2012-07-23 12:42:29 AM
1 votes:

Rincewind53: Someone's lawyer is filing a motion to exclude...


Thank you. You are a good person to ask, I'd think. What are the chances of any of the evidence being admissible? I am not a lawyer and I'm pretty ignorant on stuff like this, but I'm doubting this could even make it to the Ninth Circuit.
2012-07-23 12:16:39 AM
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: cman: Oh HELL no

This search was way beyond unreasonable.

This is complete bullshiat.

fark, I dont know how to express myself at this disgrace

I concur, but I doubt any of the charges will be dropped since one of those arrested was in the country illegally, not to mention this happened in Arizona.

Just imagine how worse it would have been if this happened in Maricopa County. Sheriff Joe would have a field day.


Deportation is a given, yeah. Bunch of bullshiat over weed. He didnt rape, he didnt murder, he didnt rob, yet he will be deported.
2012-07-23 12:13:05 AM
1 votes:

cman: Oh HELL no

This search was way beyond unreasonable.

This is complete bullshiat.

fark, I dont know how to express myself at this disgrace


I concur, but I doubt any of the charges will be dropped since one of those arrested was in the country illegally, not to mention this happened in Arizona.

Just imagine how worse it would have been if this happened in Maricopa County. Sheriff Joe would have a field day.
2012-07-22 11:47:16 PM
1 votes:
The funny part is that the cop smelled grass in the car but the dog didn't.
 
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