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(Arizona Star)   K-9 doesn't find any drugs in the car during the traffic stop? No problem, allow him to roam a nearby unrelated residence until he does find some, in a shed you searched that has nothing to do with the car you pulled over   (azstarnet.com) divider line 173
    More: Stupid, drug dog, traffic stops, Pima County  
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14216 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2012 at 3:09 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-23 04:31:32 AM
/waiting for drugs to fight back in the war.
 
2012-07-23 04:42:46 AM

Frederick: bindlestiff2600: whats really neat - is you have to take the handlers word for it, that the dog alerted in the first place

just having the dog present - in effect - provides probable cause

Precisely. And it's not like the defense in a trial can cross examine the K9. It's a very self affirming procedure.


And the dog is quite likely well trained inasmuch as it won't alert on non-drugs unless prompted by the handler, so subjecting the dog to a blind test won't help. (Good luck raising even a reasonable doubt that the dog was prompted.)
 
2012-07-23 04:43:29 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Regardless.....it is currently illegal. A cop caught someone doing something illegal. I don't have a problem with this.


I wonder what illegal things could be found in your home if a cop were to look?
 
2012-07-23 04:44:55 AM

Bigdogdaddy: trained to sniff that out.


Trained to get a snack when when the human expects an illegal drug. It's pretty iffy as to whether any dog gets trained to actually detect drugs, even ignoring the possibility of interference by the handler.
 
2012-07-23 04:47:59 AM

Frederick: Fark_Guy_Rob: Regardless.....it is currently illegal. A cop caught someone doing something illegal. I don't have a problem with this.

I wonder what illegal things could be found in your home if a cop were to look?


I'm sure every file on his computer is completely legit. Or that nothing in his medicine cabinet could be combined to make something illegal.
 
2012-07-23 04:48:10 AM

fnorgby: IDK, if the dog alerted on the fence on his own (like, "hey master, there's nothing in the car but this fence smells mighty interesting"), and this was used to support probable cause for a warrant, I bet nothing gets excluded and they're all boned.

Good faith doctrine, etc.

If the cop, frustrated at getting skunked on the car, took the dog to the nearby house and had him start sniffing, and they searched the shed with no warrant, then maybe exclusions (except for the woman caught with meth -- if she doesn't live there, she may have no standing to contest the legality of her arrest).


The dog "alerted" by peeing on the fence.
 
2012-07-23 04:49:18 AM
I have another theory...

Known (to the locals) drug holding spot... Ahole, Arizona

Rosco P. Coltrain "stumbles" on 430lbs of pot and not a single bank note?

????????

I think we have probable cause for a financial investigation of EVERYONE that works in the department.
 
2012-07-23 04:50:30 AM

Frederick: cman: Deportation is a given, yeah. Bunch of bullshiat over weed. He didnt rape, he didnt murder, he didnt rob, yet he will be deported.

There a many people, people who vote, who consider drug dealer to be in that same category as murderers and rapists.


.
.
I don't consider drug dealers to be in the same category as murders and rapist, but I do put illegal immigrants in the same category as all other breakers of federal law.
 
2012-07-23 04:55:28 AM

david_gaithersburg: I don't consider drug dealers to be in the same category as murders and rapist, but I do put illegal immigrants in the same category as all other breakers of federal law.


/CLAP
 
2012-07-23 05:04:47 AM

ReapTheChaos: 10 bucks says the traffic stop was staged next to the house in question for this very reason.


^^^this^^^

Just happened to do a traffic stop of a woman from the house. In front of the house, the house that just happened to have had 430lbs of weed in a shed. Plus drugs in the house and an illegal.
They knew, probably bad info and they were expecting her to have traffic levels of drugs in her car that they would use to justify a search of her home. Didn't happen that way so they improvised.
 
2012-07-23 05:05:13 AM

libranoelrose: Fark_Guy_Rob: Eh - I'm all for people's right to privacy and all....

But I don't have a problem with this. If every cop in the country wants to walk around America with drug-sniffing dogs and use it to catch people doing drugs illegally - awesome.

Maybe if everyone who did weed suddenly got busted - there would be enough momentum to change the drug laws. Maybe not.

Regardless.....it is currently illegal. A cop caught someone doing something illegal. I don't have a problem with this.

And I'm sure he didn't do anything illegal to get to there.

I like how slippery your slope is.


What do you think was illegal exactly?

The cop smelled weed on a chick who was professionally trafficking 400+ pounds of weed. Is that so hard to believe? Maybe she smelled like weed because she had been handling, or smoking, some of the 400 pounds of weed she had inside her house. The house that also had meth and an illegal alien....

She admits to doing it. She has 400 pounds of weed in her house. She was pulled over outside of her house.

The cop 'claims' she smelled like weed. And people are saying that this is some great abuse of power. Maybe it is. Maybe the laws should be changed. But it's not illegal. And, in this particular case, there isn't anything to suggest the cop was anything less than 100% correct. The cop did his job, the dog did it's job, and a bunch of criminals got caught.

No laws were broken.
No power was abused.
 
2012-07-23 05:05:21 AM

Dinjiin: Bathia_Mapes: I don't have to see crap like that.

No AdBlock for real life, though. Dude has re-election posters all over the place. Although I am starting to see an upward trend in the number of them that have been defaced. I'm curious if the solid political bloc known as "grumpy white retirees" will still be enough to get the guy re-elected. They just love the man.

As for the article, the bust will not be thrown out. A police officer can enter property along routes commonly used for visitors and inspect up to your front door without the need for any warrant. The dog picking up the scent adjacent to the property and informing their handlers is enough probable cause to enter based off of a few court cases out there.


Good point. It's like how at one point in time, a common way to catch moonshiners was for agents to follow their noses.

/agrees that the green stuff should be legalized
 
2012-07-23 05:08:58 AM
failfun.com
 
2012-07-23 05:12:25 AM

david_gaithersburg: I don't consider drug dealers to be in the same category as murders and rapist, but I do put illegal immigrants in the same category as all other breakers of federal law.


Dealing pot is against federal law.

Murder is against federal law.

If you put illegal immigrants in the same category as all other breakers of federal law, then you put illegal immigrants in the same category as pot dealers and the same category as murderers.

Ergo, you have put murderers and pot dealers in the same category.
 
2012-07-23 05:12:29 AM

Frederick: Fark_Guy_Rob: Regardless.....it is currently illegal. A cop caught someone doing something illegal. I don't have a problem with this.

I wonder what illegal things could be found in your home if a cop were to look?


Let's be realistic here....

There are many laws. And they are not equal. Jaywalking is illegal. Murder is illegal. To say that one is the same as the other is retarded b.s.....400 pounds of weed, meth, and an illegal alien is pretty extremely illegal.

You'd have to look pretty hard and get awfully creative to find anything criminal in my house. Yes, there are blanket laws that can be applied to just about anyone or anything - I'm sure a chemist could make a nice bomb out of things found in my house. If you have a problem with that - let's address that issue by getting rid of b.s. laws. Maybe you think 400 pounds of weed, meth, and illegal immigrants are all cool - then that's fine.

But that still doesn't make this an abuse of power or corrupt cops.

As the laws stand, they seem to have done a fine job. I'm pro-weed and pro-meth; but until the laws change - I don't have either. I'm anti-immigrants though.
 
2012-07-23 05:13:52 AM

indoorplant: [failfun.com image 600x398]


That is teh awesome.

I've really liked your picture posting tonight.

Sometimes it's the only way to communicate on Fark.

Keep up the good work.
 
2012-07-23 05:19:18 AM

SchlingFocker: Murder is against federal law.


IANAL and I'm too lazy to verify this, but I heard a newscaster say that Colorado prosecutors would have to deal with James Holmes because there is no federal statute against murder.

Sounds crazy, right? Not really....every state has laws against murder. There is no movement to legalize homicide.

Maybe murder is covered by the Interstate Commerce Clause?

I don't know.
 
2012-07-23 05:23:20 AM

Happy Hours: Dinjiin: Bathia_Mapes: I don't have to see crap like that.

No AdBlock for real life, though. Dude has re-election posters all over the place. Although I am starting to see an upward trend in the number of them that have been defaced. I'm curious if the solid political bloc known as "grumpy white retirees" will still be enough to get the guy re-elected. They just love the man.

I wonder if all the people who are up in arms about voter ID laws would object to an investigation of snowbirds in Maricopa who might be registered to vote in more than one state.

Don't think it doesn't happen - a lot of those people take the attitude that laws are only supposed to be enforced against people they don't like.


No no, voter fraud doesn't happen. Right?
 
2012-07-23 05:25:03 AM

SchlingFocker: david_gaithersburg: I don't consider drug dealers to be in the same category as murders and rapist, but I do put illegal immigrants in the same category as all other breakers of federal law.

Dealing pot is against federal law.

Murder is against federal law.

If you put illegal immigrants in the same category as all other breakers of federal law, then you put illegal immigrants in the same category as pot dealers and the same category as murderers.

Ergo, you have put murderers and pot dealers in the same category.


.
.
So the local cops need to stop arresting people for murder since they are stepping on the toes of Dear Leader and his little sidekick, Holder. amiright?
 
2012-07-23 05:28:41 AM
hey. sometimes you get the bear. sometimes the bear get you.
 
2012-07-23 05:30:25 AM
Just for the record in most cases they don't just count the grass they also include what it's being held in and any equipment used to smoke it hold it or anything that touches it. I can assure you it wasn't 430 pounds of just grass. So it sounds like a lot but in reality they most likely had less. I don't think there should be laws against plants. Now meth on the other hand and prescription drugs I'm totally against. But you can't make oil, rope, clothes, paper, and a 1000 of other useful things from prescription drugs or meth. But you can make those things from hemp. And it grows from the Earth. It's not just for smoking and getting stupid. It has many uses.
 
2012-07-23 05:30:53 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: If every cop in the country wants to walk around America with drug-sniffing dogs and use it to catch people doing drugs illegally - awesome.


Well, since drug dog accuracy seems to be about 50%, I have a problem with this. Might as well have cops walk around house to house flipping a coin. "Heads, not this one. Tails, GOGOGO!!!"

The truth is, drug dogs can alert on nothing, more often than most police officers would like to admit. Of course, some states train their dogs to alert off things other than drugs, just to provide probable cause.
 
2012-07-23 05:36:31 AM

halloran: Just for the record in most cases they don't just count the grass they also include what it's being held in and any equipment used to smoke it hold it or anything that touches it. I can assure you it wasn't 430 pounds of just grass. So it sounds like a lot but in reality they most likely had less. I don't think there should be laws against plants. Now meth on the other hand and prescription drugs I'm totally against. But you can't make oil, rope, clothes, paper, and a 1000 of other useful things from prescription drugs or meth. But you can make those things from hemp. And it grows from the Earth. It's not just for smoking and getting stupid. It has many uses.


wooden pallets are not.. that... heavy. 400 pounds then?
 
2012-07-23 05:38:16 AM

Happy Hours:
I wonder if all the people who are up in arms about voter ID laws would object to an investigation of snowbirds in Maricopa who might be registered to vote in more than one state.

Don't think it doesn't happen - a lot of those people take the attitude that laws are only supposed to be enforced against people they don't like.


your evidence is overwhelming.
 
2012-07-23 05:43:33 AM

halloran: Just for the record in most cases they don't just count the grass they also include what it's being held in and any equipment used to smoke it hold it or anything that touches it. I can assure you it wasn't 430 pounds of just grass. So it sounds like a lot but in reality they most likely had less. I don't think there should be laws against plants. Now meth on the other hand and prescription drugs I'm totally against. But you can't make oil, rope, clothes, paper, and a 1000 of other useful things from prescription drugs or meth. But you can make those things from hemp. And it grows from the Earth. It's not just for smoking and getting stupid. It has many uses.


Yeah, yeah yeah - you sounds stupid when you start ranting about making clothing and paper out of hemp. Sure, it's not just for "getting stupid" but I think it's done that to you.

So, sure - cops shouldn't be weighing packaging material when making a case but how much do you suppose the plastic it was wrapped in weighed?
 
2012-07-23 05:47:23 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Frederick: Fark_Guy_Rob: Regardless.....it is currently illegal. A cop caught someone doing something illegal. I don't have a problem with this.

I wonder what illegal things could be found in your home if a cop were to look?

Let's be realistic here....

There are many laws. And they are not equal. Jaywalking is illegal. Murder is illegal. To say that one is the same as the other is retarded b.s.....400 pounds of weed, meth, and an illegal alien is pretty extremely illegal.

You'd have to look pretty hard and get awfully creative to find anything criminal in my house. Yes, there are blanket laws that can be applied to just about anyone or anything - I'm sure a chemist could make a nice bomb out of things found in my house. If you have a problem with that - let's address that issue by getting rid of b.s. laws. Maybe you think 400 pounds of weed, meth, and illegal immigrants are all cool - then that's fine.

But that still doesn't make this an abuse of power or corrupt cops.

As the laws stand, they seem to have done a fine job. I'm pro-weed and pro-meth; but until the laws change - I don't have either. I'm anti-immigrants though.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not disparaging yours. I consider myself to be an old time libertarian; so yeah -I am cool with drugs, even immigrants (I dont believe anyone should have to qualify to live in the US).

I vehemently oppose victim-less crimes, which I consider drug laws to be, so I am particularly sensitive to those.

I understand the "if you disagree with a law, work to change it" theory, and I agree in principle. But when the will of the people is flagrantly dismissed; such as state pot laws trumped by federal pot laws (among many other injustices), I think it is appropriate to engage in civil disobedience -meaning I imbibe.

I disagree with you on the abuse of power. I think 4th amendment rights especially are being routinely and systematically violated in the name of the war on drugs. I havent read enough on this case to go so far as to say corrupt cops. I'm considering overly entitled cops.

\I appreciate the mature conversation -refreshing (no snark)
 
2012-07-23 05:51:21 AM

Happy Hours:
Yeah, yeah yeah - you sounds stupid when you start ranting about making clothing and paper out of hemp. Sure, it's not just for "getting stupid" but I think it's done that to you.


Person A: factual statement

Person B: "you're stupid!"

Person Me: "Person B is stupid."
 
2012-07-23 05:52:06 AM

Choadzilla: I have another theory...

Known (to the locals) drug holding spot... Ahole, Arizona

Rosco P. Coltrain "stumbles" on 430lbs of pot and not a single bank note?

????????

I think we have probable cause for a financial investigation of EVERYONE that works in the department.


That is actually MORE interesting than the fact that they stumbled on so much weed. Either that, or they failed to post how much money they found. Even money either way.
 
2012-07-23 06:00:15 AM

violentsalvation: You know something like this could happen anywhere in America, these days.


Actually here in minnesota a drug testing lab was found to pretty much making up the results. Every police department dropped them and all the cases they got evidence for are now being reviewed. If that happened in Arizona nothing would have happened.
 
2012-07-23 06:07:30 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Happy Hours:
I wonder if all the people who are up in arms about voter ID laws would object to an investigation of snowbirds in Maricopa who might be registered to vote in more than one state.

Don't think it doesn't happen - a lot of those people take the attitude that laws are only supposed to be enforced against people they don't like.

your evidence is overwhelming.


So would you object to Arizona's Secretary of State comparing AZ's voter rolls with the rolls of other states where snowbird's also have residences?

Or might that disenfranchise some of the grey-hairs who are wealthy enough to have a winter home in AZ?

I'm not accusing anyone specifically and I'm not making a claim that it's extremely widespread. I'm just sure it happens. I can't prove it, but I think it's something that would be easy to look into.
 
2012-07-23 06:10:19 AM
It's stupid because they lawfully arrested people.
 
2012-07-23 06:10:56 AM

Frederick: Fark_Guy_Rob: Frederick: Fark_Guy_Rob: Regardless.....

\I appreciate the mature conversation -refreshing (no snark)


The All-Powerful Atheismo: Happy Hours:
Yeah, yeah yeah - you sounds stupid when you start ranting about making clothing and paper out of hemp. Sure, it's not just for "getting stupid" but I think it's done that to you.

Person A: factual statement

Person B: "you're stupid!"

Person Me: "Person B is stupid."


Look at what you've done! (actually, I think person B started it before you said that...whatevs)
 
2012-07-23 06:13:02 AM
The dog didn't smell pot in the car but the cop did, therefore the dog smells terrible and has no nose.

/QED
 
2012-07-23 06:16:35 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Happy Hours:
Yeah, yeah yeah - you sounds stupid when you start ranting about making clothing and paper out of hemp. Sure, it's not just for "getting stupid" but I think it's done that to you.

Person A: factual statement

Person B: "you're stupid!"

Person Me: "Person B is stupid."


What I'm trying to tell you is you sound like some naive stoner fresh out of high school when you start talking about the wonders of the cannabis plant in order to support the legalization of marijuana for recreational use.

Yes, hemp can be used for a lot of purposes (some of which you mentioned) but what you really care about is that you can buy it legally so you can get high. I didn't say you were stupid, I said you sound stupid.

Hemp can be legally grown in a number of countries and yet I don't see all these hemp products making a big impact on the market even though it's perfectly legal to import them into the US.
 
2012-07-23 06:18:01 AM
when most of fark is obviously high, it might be time to legalize the shiat. The argument against legalizing it, is all the crazy shiat most the high people of fark tend to say or hint they are willing to do to get the shiat legal, like vote for sociopathic Ron Paul.
 
2012-07-23 06:19:19 AM
The deputy had to "smell marijuana" in the car to make the search legal. It said she was pulled over for a traffic violation, If he then called in a k-9 unit to sniff the car he had to have a reason to detain her until it arrived.
 
2012-07-23 06:25:37 AM

ReapTheChaos: 10 bucks says the traffic stop was staged next to the house in question for this very reason.


Yup. Way too convenient.
 
2012-07-23 06:26:05 AM
If this is allowed to happen then expect that the cops can walk the K9 up and down any street anywhere and wait for the dog to smell something of interest.

Just legalize it already and stop destroying people's lives and spending so much of our money.
 
2012-07-23 06:29:41 AM

ChasingPi: when most of fark is obviously high, it might be time to legalize the shiat. The argument against legalizing it, is all the crazy shiat most the high people of fark tend to say or hint they are willing to do to get the shiat legal, like vote for sociopathic Ron Paul

money, money, the for-profit Prison-Industrial Complex and money.

/FTFY.
 
2012-07-23 06:32:37 AM
My brother is a contractor and was going to a friend's house one night to check on doing some tile work for him. The cops pulled him over because they were checking all cars that didn't belong in the neighborhood (out of state tags) and they saw a crowbar in his car. They called this burglery tools. This of course allowed them to get a warrent to check his car and they found one muscle relaxer, on oxycodone and another narcotic that he couldn't come up with a prescription for. He then went to jail and had to pay a bail bondsman. He did get out of it because he found a prescription for the two, but the other one for some reason they didn't include in the charges. It did however cost him several hundred dollars for the bail bondsman. Sometimes the cops abuse power, 400 + pounds of marijuana is probably not an abuse.
 
2012-07-23 06:33:49 AM

Unrelated residence?
Nothing to do with the car that was pulled over?
What is this country coming to?
This is an outrage!
Derp derp blather derp...

1.bp.blogspot.com

RTFA you idiot.


Never mind.
snltranscripts.jt.org
 
2012-07-23 06:48:06 AM

cman: Oh HELL no

This search was way beyond unreasonable.

This is complete bullshiat.

fark, I dont know how to express myself at this disgrace


No it wasn't, the dog was in the area and hit on the shed. It's no different than if an officer was searching for a suspect and happened across another crime taking place.
 
2012-07-23 06:52:58 AM
Moral of this story: If you have 400lbs of pot in your shed, drive a couple of blocks away from your home when the cops pull you over in your car.
 
2012-07-23 06:58:58 AM
Those dogs are wrong 50% of the time and are just used as an excuse to conduct illegal searches.

The officer can't say I am suspicious so want to look through your things but he can say my DOG is suspicious so I will look through your things.
 
2012-07-23 07:04:02 AM

cman: yet he will be deported.


He wouldn't be deported if he was here legally. Notice that the other two mentioned in the article are not being deported. Also this is total BS and is the police way of covering up the surveillance they were running on these people. They expected drugs in the car, and when they weren't present, had to improvise. It wasn't chance. And yes, it's still total BS.
 
2012-07-23 07:05:36 AM

Uisce Beatha: Fark_Guy_Rob: If every cop in the country wants to walk around America with drug-sniffing dogs and use it to catch people doing drugs illegally - awesome.

Well, since drug dog accuracy seems to be about 50%, I have a problem with this. Might as well have cops walk around house to house flipping a coin. "Heads, not this one. Tails, GOGOGO!!!"

The truth is, drug dogs can alert on nothing, more often than most police officers would like to admit. Of course, some states train their dogs to alert off things other than drugs, just to provide probable cause.


I'm not going to disagree with your first linked article; but I will say that seems awfully biased. It's taking one particular dog and one particular handler and saying their accuracy rate is poor. I'm not 'pro false positives'.

But take ANY tool that requires a technician to read it or calibrate it - and there is opportunity to cheat. I can adjust a scale so that it's heavy or light. That doesn't mean scales don't work.

Dogs can be highly effective in detecting drugs. Just like BAC meters and speed guns.

I don't think we should abandon those things because they aren't tamper-proof. Again - if your of the opinion that drug-sniffing dogs shouldn't be used, that's fine. I might agree with you if I were better educated on the subject. But right now, we do use them. And in this case - the dog seemed to do a spot-on perfect job. There might be false positives - but in this case - I don't believe there was.
 
2012-07-23 07:06:00 AM

consider this: No it wasn't, the dog was in the area and hit on the shed. It's no different than if an officer was searching for a suspect and happened across another crime taking place.


Happened upon? Happened upon? He "happened" to open a shed? Or wait, I know, he heard the marijuana calling for help, right?
 
2012-07-23 07:15:45 AM
Everybody who has been to Ajo, AZ raise your hand!!
this is a small dumpy desert town. I went there once as a kid with my friend and his parents. It was the hottest, driest, most desolate experience of my life.
the town is so small, I guarantee you that the cops knew about this house but never had Probable Cause. having a reason to be onscene with a dog that just happened to hit on the fence, booyah, they said.
 
2012-07-23 07:18:53 AM
i.qkme.me
 
2012-07-23 07:34:52 AM
rexcurry.net
 
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