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(My San Antonio)   Police chief suspends a lieutenant for the fifteenth time, after he: a) make a false arrest b) beats a drunk c) insults another cop   (mysanantonio.com) divider line 26
    More: Asinine, false arrest  
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10592 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jul 2012 at 12:49 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-07-22 01:28:51 PM
2 votes:

CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


I think he might have been criticizing the fact that this guy had 14 duty suspensions for violation of department policy and a previous firing already on his record.

And these?
"Ten of the disciplinary actions against Rakun stem from his personal life and often involve his relationships with women. They have included allegations of domestic violence, leaving harassing messages for his ex-wife's divorce attorney and threatening a male acquaintance."

People who aren't cops get arrested for many of those things. Domestic violence? Isn't that a free ride to jail for some chillaxing time, on the spot, no questions asked, in pretty much all 50 states now?

The guy is a bad egg. His department was also at fault for not kicking him to the ditch about a dozen write-ups ago. Honestly, he fits the profile for a Blackwater grunt.
2012-07-22 01:18:28 PM
2 votes:

CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


Dude, seriously? Most of us wouldn't receive 15 warnings before being fired. Twice. Hell YES this is a criticism of police in general!
2012-07-22 12:58:51 PM
2 votes:
Remember the typical of days of yore? .32 revolver, goofy hat, mustache. Now they all seem like roided MMA wannabes in battle dress uniforms. This is no accident. These are not police to protect and serve. They are the infantry of the police state. They want you scared, not asking for directions or a little help.
2012-07-24 08:46:53 AM
1 votes:

clyph: CruiserTwelve: Your post is precisely why I avoid posting in these threads any more. No matter what I say, it's filtered by some people to become a defense of bad cops. They can't fathom that most cops detest cops like the one in the article. We want those cops gone.

But you're not willing to give up the benefits of belonging to the FOP (or whatever other union you're a member of), and happily pay your dues for their protection.

If you're not willing to give up YOUR security blanket to get rid of the bad cops, you're part of the problem.

If you pay dues to the organization that defends these shiatbags, you're part of the problem.

If you were serious about getting rid of the bad cops, you'd work to get rid of the organization that keeps them on the job. But you don't. You are an enabler. You are part of the problem.


Um... yeah... We should get rid of the union because once in a great while it helps a bad cop keep his job. Right...

Do you have any idea what unions do?
2012-07-23 10:31:34 PM
1 votes:

Bill_Wick's_Friend: You're so used to the stink that you don't even smell what you're peddling anymore.


I'm not peddling anything. You're reading way more into my posts than I'm saying. Just because I don't join the cop-hate brigade does not mean that I'm supporting or defending bad cops. I don't know how to make that any more clear than I already have.
2012-07-23 09:23:03 PM
1 votes:

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Did ya ever notice how after the predictable "I'm not defending this bad cop BUT......" post from cruiser12 come the inevitable "that's why I don't post in these threads anymore" post from cruiser12?

I noticed that.


No, you didn't notice that, you made that up. Where in this thread or any other thread have I said "I'm not defending this cop BUT..." I didn't. I clearly said, and I repeat again, I don't support this cop in any way. It sounds like he's been a pain in the ass to his agency for a long time, and they've tried repeatedly to get rid of him but he uses every legal tactic at his disposal to prevent this. I don't know how his agency's disciplinary system works, but it obviously isn't working well.

That you have twisted this to fit your erroneous view of cops in general and me specifically is exactly why I avoid these threads. The fact that you find my opinions "predictable" is because you filter them to be so, not because they're actually predictable.
2012-07-23 12:21:50 PM
1 votes:

OnlyM3: Just because you defend a dirtbag crew that promotes one of its members that is beating women, threatening others lives? You're right. None of that deserves ridicule or shame. You don't happen to work for Penn state, do you?


Please point out where I defended anyone in this thread. In fact, I made this statement: I don't support this cop in any way. It sounds like he's been a pain in the ass to his agency for a long time, and they've tried repeatedly to get rid of him but he uses every legal tactic at his disposal to prevent this. I don't know how his agency's disciplinary system works, but it obviously isn't working well.

Your post is precisely why I avoid posting in these threads any more. No matter what I say, it's filtered by some people to become a defense of bad cops. They can't fathom that most cops detest cops like the one in the article. We want those cops gone.
2012-07-23 01:00:27 AM
1 votes:

mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.

I didn't say it was acceptable. But it is what it is. You're confusing an explanation with an excuse, and I'm sorry you can't understand the difference, or realize that just because something "seems wrong" doesn't mean it will go away because you disapprove.

I understand why it happens. I guess my outrage is the idea that it is acceptable for it to happen. Futile grumblings on my part I guess.


Only if you sit around grumbling and being outraged and not offering (or better still, working for) changes that will punish the bad union members while protecting the good.

As long as the knee-jerk response to stuff like this is OMG! BAD COPZ! HANG 'M! and not to develop better ways to solve the problem--there will be no solution. Teachers' unions (the area I know more about than cop unions) cannot eliminate their members' due process unless there is a way to ensure that petty parents or vengeful students can't get teachers fired at the drop of a hat. Same is true for cops: The public hates cops, and will make up stuff to get their local flatfoot axed. Until there is a better way to sort through false accusations and honest mistakes, the public service unions have to protect ALL their members, and assume they are ALL good unless proven otherwise.

Outrage is fine--I am outraged when I hear of a dirty cop or a lousy teacher being shielded by their union. But I also don't want to see people who work for the public subject to the same whims that you or I have to worry about every time we go to work. (As in: Boss didn't get laid, boss fires your ass for being fifteen minutes late. Cop writes angry driver a ticket, angry driver files complaint with PD--and boss who didn't get laid fires cop)
2012-07-23 12:42:07 AM
1 votes:

mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.


I didn't say it was acceptable. But it is what it is. You're confusing an explanation with an excuse, and I'm sorry you can't understand the difference, or realize that just because something "seems wrong" doesn't mean it will go away because you disapprove.
2012-07-22 10:41:16 PM
1 votes:

OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.


If by "crookedcop12" you mean me, I'm not dodging anything. He got promoted because he passed a civil service test and there was an opening. That's how it works in most departments.
2012-07-22 08:23:37 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: mopar1956: You and your ilk should be held to the highest standard not the lowest possible standard any union lackey can come up with.

I ask again. How do you not get this?

Why Gryfalcon said. Having been a board member of a police union, I can tell you that what he said is spot on. We existed to protect our member's rights by ensuring the rules were fairly and properly applied. There were a number of times that cops would deserve punishment, but the city would screw things up so bad they didn't get what they deserved. In one investigation we actually secretly told the city what they did wrong and how to fix it because the cop deserved what they gave him and we didn't want to see it overturned.

This cop apparently took advantage of weaknesses in the city's discipline system. Again, I'm guessing the other cops hated the guy and are happy to see him finally go.

This guy's story should tell you that his type are the exception and not the rule. How many other cops do you see that have been disciplined repeatedly and terminated after 19 years on the job? His is a rare case. Most cops go through their entire careers without being disciplined, at least not for the serious stuff he was disciplined for.


Thanks for the response.

I just don't think you can compare a bad teacher with a bad cop. A bad teacher = your kid may need summer school, a bad cop = dead people, falsely imprisoned and destroyed lives.

What still bothers me about this is how he somehow became a lieutenant during this time if he was an outcast and a bad apple how did he reach such a high position?

I believe police should not have the same blanket coverage of unions and job protection. If you choose a profession with such high responsibility sometimes screwing up once should cost you your job.

Just a thought from another citizen.
2012-07-22 07:56:52 PM
1 votes:

mopar1956: You and your ilk should be held to the highest standard not the lowest possible standard any union lackey can come up with.

I ask again. How do you not get this?


Why Gryfalcon said. Having been a board member of a police union, I can tell you that what he said is spot on. We existed to protect our member's rights by ensuring the rules were fairly and properly applied. There were a number of times that cops would deserve punishment, but the city would screw things up so bad they didn't get what they deserved. In one investigation we actually secretly told the city what they did wrong and how to fix it because the cop deserved what they gave him and we didn't want to see it overturned.

This cop apparently took advantage of weaknesses in the city's discipline system. Again, I'm guessing the other cops hated the guy and are happy to see him finally go.

This guy's story should tell you that his type are the exception and not the rule. How many other cops do you see that have been disciplined repeatedly and terminated after 19 years on the job? His is a rare case. Most cops go through their entire careers without being disciplined, at least not for the serious stuff he was disciplined for.
2012-07-22 07:35:47 PM
1 votes:

mopar1956: CruiserTwelve: shoegaze99: Looks to me like his superior officer has tried to get rid of the guy, but the guy has repeatedly found ways to fight it. Looks to me like he has repeatedly used lawsuits, settlements, and other tactics to get suspensions thrown out, his position reinstated, and to (temporarily) get the city off his back. I learned this by RTFA.

TFA doesn't mention if his union was involved in protecting his job, and if so to what extent, but it does make clear that this has been an ongoing struggle between this cop and the city. They've clearly wanted to get rid of him but haven't been able to make it stick.

Wow. Someone actually read the article and applied some logic to it.

I'm an idiot for posting in this thread. I know that logic doesn't exist in these threads.

I don't support this cop in any way. It sounds like he's been a pain in the ass to his agency for a long time, and they've tried repeatedly to get rid of him but he uses every legal tactic at his disposal to prevent this. I don't know how his agency's disciplinary system works, but it obviously isn't working well.

I see this as an indictment of one lousy cop that is managing to play the system to the point of abuse. It's not an indictment of police in general. I'm betting every cop that has ever met him has wanted him gone. People like him are usually awful supervisors as well as being awful cops.

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

Even if this was possible in other professions they do not carry guns and have the ability to destroy peoples lives at their whim.

You and your ilk should be held to the highest standard not the lowest possible standard any union lackey can come up with.

I ask again. How do you not get this?


To defend Cruiser so he doesn't have to do it himself--that's what unions are for. Public service unions, like police and teachers, are put in the terrible position of having to ensure ALL their members are afforded due process. The good and the bad, the heroes and the thugs. In "other professions" as you say, which don't have union protection, sure, a douchebag can be fired at will; it was rampant firings for no cause that led to union formation in the first place. It was to get ALL members protection from wanton firings.

I guarantee you, the police union in this case isn't congratulating themselves, giving each other high-fives: "Yeah! We kept this freak on the force for 18 years and boy, did we stick it to the brass!" Just as teachers' unions are not overjoyed about protecting rotten teachers, police unions are not happy about protecting rogue cops. But that is why there are unions, and why members pay dues, often quite exorbitant ones.

That is why jobs want union protection. AND why people without such protection can be held to those higher standards, and summarily terminated if they don't meet them. You join a union--police or Teamsters--because you DON'T WANT to be fired at your bosses' whims, and you WANT them to be required to give you due process. Sadly, this means that bad cops and bad teachers and bad truck drivers can be retained on the job while they wait out the process...but that's what's needed to keep the GOOD cops, teachers and drivers on the job.
2012-07-22 06:22:56 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: shoegaze99: Looks to me like his superior officer has tried to get rid of the guy, but the guy has repeatedly found ways to fight it. Looks to me like he has repeatedly used lawsuits, settlements, and other tactics to get suspensions thrown out, his position reinstated, and to (temporarily) get the city off his back. I learned this by RTFA.

TFA doesn't mention if his union was involved in protecting his job, and if so to what extent, but it does make clear that this has been an ongoing struggle between this cop and the city. They've clearly wanted to get rid of him but haven't been able to make it stick.

Wow. Someone actually read the article and applied some logic to it.

I'm an idiot for posting in this thread. I know that logic doesn't exist in these threads.

I don't support this cop in any way. It sounds like he's been a pain in the ass to his agency for a long time, and they've tried repeatedly to get rid of him but he uses every legal tactic at his disposal to prevent this. I don't know how his agency's disciplinary system works, but it obviously isn't working well.

I see this as an indictment of one lousy cop that is managing to play the system to the point of abuse. It's not an indictment of police in general. I'm betting every cop that has ever met him has wanted him gone. People like him are usually awful supervisors as well as being awful cops.


Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

Even if this was possible in other professions they do not carry guns and have the ability to destroy peoples lives at their whim.

You and your ilk should be held to the highest standard not the lowest possible standard any union lackey can come up with.

I ask again. How do you not get this?
2012-07-22 06:03:58 PM
1 votes:

shoegaze99: Looks to me like his superior officer has tried to get rid of the guy, but the guy has repeatedly found ways to fight it. Looks to me like he has repeatedly used lawsuits, settlements, and other tactics to get suspensions thrown out, his position reinstated, and to (temporarily) get the city off his back. I learned this by RTFA.

TFA doesn't mention if his union was involved in protecting his job, and if so to what extent, but it does make clear that this has been an ongoing struggle between this cop and the city. They've clearly wanted to get rid of him but haven't been able to make it stick.


Wow. Someone actually read the article and applied some logic to it.

I'm an idiot for posting in this thread. I know that logic doesn't exist in these threads.

I don't support this cop in any way. It sounds like he's been a pain in the ass to his agency for a long time, and they've tried repeatedly to get rid of him but he uses every legal tactic at his disposal to prevent this. I don't know how his agency's disciplinary system works, but it obviously isn't working well.

I see this as an indictment of one lousy cop that is managing to play the system to the point of abuse. It's not an indictment of police in general. I'm betting every cop that has ever met him has wanted him gone. People like him are usually awful supervisors as well as being awful cops.
2012-07-22 05:13:00 PM
1 votes:
Lot of people here thinking he's been fired.

"the beleaguered veteran received the department's harshest punishment [indefinite suspension], tantamount to being fired, for the third time."

Notice this is the third time they've 'not fired' him. The case is on appeal (again). He'll probably be back on appeal and get his back pay like before. Thanks, Police Union.
2012-07-22 04:30:23 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


How many times would YOU expect to be tagged with criminal or unethical or just plain disgraceful behaviour before you lost your job -- not "six month paid suspension", not "suspended pending investigation"? Fired? How many drunken wife-beating incidents? How many brutality claims on which your dept had to pay out settlements? How many racist rants against coworkers?

If you say "one" or perhaps "two", then you are not a cop.

If you say "14 or 15 seems reasonable" then you probably are a cop.
2012-07-22 04:27:52 PM
1 votes:
CruiserTwelve

namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly a pass on multiple threats and acts of violence that would put one of us "normal folks" in prison and finally fired for being a jerk insulting a fellow blue line fellon, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


Why yes, now that it's fixed, that's it exactly. Especially when you stack upon that the fact that his fellow felons in blue keep fighting to ensure he hasn't been punished earlier. See, there's no good cops, there are those that commit the crimes, those that collude.

Threats = Ok
Harassment of an officer of the court = Ok
Violence against women = Ok
Call a cop working as a rent a pig, a naughty word, well that's your a$$.
2012-07-22 02:55:48 PM
1 votes:
fixingfilms.files.wordpress.com
2012-07-22 02:52:46 PM
1 votes:

rappy: sobernutz: rappy: government grounds. One day, a visitor found a small box hidden in the bushes, which contained three joints. So, naturally, I called th

We caught a guy stealing, once inside of the office the dude dumps some needles and his stash into the trash can. We told the cops about it when they showed up to take him away. Their reply was MEH!!! Didn't see it happen, didn't occur.

I'm guessing you didn't mean to quote me on that since I didn't say that.

That was the point I was trying to make, cops aren't hiding in the bushes waiting for someone to throw away a couple of joints they found.


Except that he didn't find them. They were turned into him by somebody else. I suppose you would think that if he just pocketed any wallets or property that was turned in too would be just fine. If somebody turns in illegal drugs to somebody and they "just disappear" from the system, what do you think people are going to think happened to them?
2012-07-22 01:59:38 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


How do you not get this, he was not just disciplined 15 time he was farking suspended 15 times and that's with the protection of a union. What's even more terrifying is the fact that he went from patrolman to corporal to sergeant to lieutenant all while be suspended almost once a year. How you don't see this as indictment of police in general is the exact problem with your kind.

Oh and lets' not forget about the apparent beating the shiat out of woman and threatening apparently anybody he wanted to.
2012-07-22 01:43:10 PM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?

Dude, seriously? Most of us wouldn't receive 15 warnings before being fired. Twice. Hell YES this is a criticism of police in general!


This.
2012-07-22 01:37:55 PM
1 votes:

Submitted First With a Better Headline: Oh, oh! Cop hate thread! I have a new story, bro:

I work security on government grounds. One day, a visitor found a small box hidden in the bushes, which contained three joints. So, naturally, I called the cops and let them know I needed someone to pick up some found drugs.

A police officer arrives with the greeting "I was having a good day until you called."

Uh, okay. So I give him the box, and he starts biatching about how they don't do anything with them but destroy them and now he has all this paperwork he's going to have to do and how I could have just destroyed them myself. He repeated that last part several times.

I was polite, of course, but I couldn't help but think fark you. Even as a white-skinned person with zero criminal history, I could seriously have my life screwed up for being caught destroying drugs, especially on government grounds that commonly house children. But you don't want to do some god damned paperwork?

What an asshole.


Ouch... many years ago I had just finished high school and was working graveyards at 7-11 to help pay for university. One friday night we had a huge swarm of teenagers come in all at once (in varying stages of intoxication). We finally get through the giant mob, they all leave and my coworker and I are cleaning up when three young girls come out of the bathroom asking where everyone went. They'd told their dates they were going to the bathroom and had been left stranded. We start talking to them and find out that a) they're all 13 and b) none of them are from this town.

Cellphones weren't mainstream yet and they sure as shiat didn't want their parents phoned. Not knowing what else to do I phoned the non-emergency police number. The guy whined about paperwork and they weren't a taxi service and blah blah blah. One of the girls tries to get my attention and says "Tell them we're 13 and our boyfriends are 17." All of a sudden they were very interested in picking up these girls and talking to them. :p
2012-07-22 01:34:09 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


Fifteen farking times. Fifteen. Several of them involving criminal acts of violence which got magically expunged from his record instead of criminally prosecuted as they would have been for any civilian, and many of which are automatic "you lose your firearms" offenses for regular citizens as well. He's allowed to keep a position of public trust and one that requires him to be armed. If you can't see why that's farked fifteen ways to Sunday, you are part of the problem.

Cops who cover for their corrupt brethren are corrupt too.

In my experience, almost every cop I've known has been corrupt in one way or another, either because they selectively enforce the laws, or look the other way when other cops break the law, or alter their police reports to cover up mistakes and violations of the constitution

There's a reason prosecutors and defense attorneys refer to it as "Testi-lying" when a cop is put on the stand.
2012-07-22 01:24:37 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


Yes, any normal employee would be fired long before 15 disciplinary actions were given.

fark police.
2012-07-22 01:24:33 PM
1 votes:
What the officer may look like:
images2.static-bluray.com
 
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