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(My San Antonio)   Police chief suspends a lieutenant for the fifteenth time, after he: a) make a false arrest b) beats a drunk c) insults another cop   (mysanantonio.com) divider line 136
    More: Asinine, false arrest  
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10592 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jul 2012 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-22 09:36:24 PM

rappy: Benjimin_Dover: rappy: sobernutz: rappy: government grounds. One day, a visitor found a small box hidden in the bushes, which contained three joints. So, naturally, I called th

We caught a guy stealing, once inside of the office the dude dumps some needles and his stash into the trash can. We told the cops about it when they showed up to take him away. Their reply was MEH!!! Didn't see it happen, didn't occur.

I'm guessing you didn't mean to quote me on that since I didn't say that.

That was the point I was trying to make, cops aren't hiding in the bushes waiting for someone to throw away a couple of joints they found.

Except that he didn't find them. They were turned into him by somebody else. I suppose you would think that if he just pocketed any wallets or property that was turned in too would be just fine. If somebody turns in illegal drugs to somebody and they "just disappear" from the system, what do you think people are going to think happened to them?

My point is when someone turned them into him, he could have tossed them into the garbage can, because, as I said, cops aren't waiting in bushes for someone to throw a few joints away.

You can't compare joints to a wallet, that's just absurd. Are you going to return the joints to the original owner as you would a wallet? No, you're going to throw them away.

Someone found it, said hey I found this, so the guy decided to call the cops and waste their time instead of tossing them into the trash. I don't know what "system" you think this is entered into.


Hmm. So this security person knew for a fact that the person turning in the drugs was not part of some sort of "quality assurance" program internal to his organization to catch shady people? He knew for a fact that the person wasn't part of some sort of LEO operation? He had absolutely no reason to possibly fear that he might get in some sort of trouble if he made the drugs just disappear?

Awesome.

/cops hiding in the bushes waiting for somebody to throw away 3 joints is most likely not even a factor
//audits never happen, ever
 
2012-07-22 09:55:17 PM
mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...


..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.
 
2012-07-22 09:59:09 PM

Benjimin_Dover: rappy: Benjimin_Dover: rappy: sobernutz: rappy: government grounds. One day, a visitor found a small box hidden in the bushes, which contained three joints. So, naturally, I called th

We caught a guy stealing, once inside of the office the dude dumps some needles and his stash into the trash can. We told the cops about it when they showed up to take him away. Their reply was MEH!!! Didn't see it happen, didn't occur.

I'm guessing you didn't mean to quote me on that since I didn't say that.

That was the point I was trying to make, cops aren't hiding in the bushes waiting for someone to throw away a couple of joints they found.

Except that he didn't find them. They were turned into him by somebody else. I suppose you would think that if he just pocketed any wallets or property that was turned in too would be just fine. If somebody turns in illegal drugs to somebody and they "just disappear" from the system, what do you think people are going to think happened to them?

My point is when someone turned them into him, he could have tossed them into the garbage can, because, as I said, cops aren't waiting in bushes for someone to throw a few joints away.

You can't compare joints to a wallet, that's just absurd. Are you going to return the joints to the original owner as you would a wallet? No, you're going to throw them away.

Someone found it, said hey I found this, so the guy decided to call the cops and waste their time instead of tossing them into the trash. I don't know what "system" you think this is entered into.

Hmm. So this security person knew for a fact that the person turning in the drugs was not part of some sort of "quality assurance" program internal to his organization to catch shady people? He knew for a fact that the person wasn't part of some sort of LEO operation? He had absolutely no reason to possibly fear that he might get in some sort of trouble if he made the drugs just disappear?

Awesome.

/cops hiding in the bushes waiting for somebod ...


You sound upset.
 
2012-07-22 10:41:16 PM

OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.


If by "crookedcop12" you mean me, I'm not dodging anything. He got promoted because he passed a civil service test and there was an opening. That's how it works in most departments.
 
2012-07-22 10:51:23 PM

OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.


Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.
 
2012-07-22 11:03:37 PM

CruiserTwelve: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

If by "crookedcop12" you mean me, I'm not dodging anything. He got promoted because he passed a civil service test and there was an opening. That's how it works in most departments.


And their we have it. It just wasn't a bad apple it was the whole system. Let's see officer only 2 suspensions, promotion. Hello corporal, well you only have 5 suspensions, promotion. Good morning sergeant, we see you only have 12 suspension, promotion.

This seems to be a little bigger problem then one bad apple all the "good guy's" wear trying to get rid of. Mr12 please don't arrest me and I appreciate the fact that you have enough character to identify yourself as a LEO. It just scares me that your argument is always that it was just one bad apple. Imagine how many of his arrests and testimony were false and the impact that has had on society.

Sorry buddy, but you may also be part of the problem. FARK isn't some wacky anti LEO message board and I think you will notice that most of the opinions are very negative if not downright hostile. It's because of things like this and perhaps you should be an agent for change and not all well he was a bad apple and they finally got him once he was a senior officer and 15 suspensions in nineteen freaking years later.

Ha, who am I kidding. Taze on hero.
 
2012-07-22 11:05:21 PM

Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.


And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.
 
2012-07-22 11:46:12 PM

mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.


Of course it's acceptable... You see, a cop's love is very different from that of a square; they're just better than the rest of humanity and understand that society's conventions and "laws" simply don't apply to them. What would get you fired and black-balled within a square industry is but a noisy blip on a cop's ever-righteous radar; you would be well put to understand your place and accept that police are simply superior to you and exempt from your pedestrian mores and expectations.
 
2012-07-23 12:13:39 AM

misanthropic1: mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.

Of course it's acceptable... You see, a cop's love is very different from that of a square; they're just better than the rest of humanity and understand that society's conventions and "laws" simply don't apply to them. What would get you fired and black-balled within a square industry is but a noisy blip on a cop's ever-righteous radar; you would be well put to understand your place and accept that police are simply superior to you and exempt from your pedestrian mores and expectations.


It's beautiful.
 
2012-07-23 12:16:45 AM

mopar1956: It just scares me that your argument is always that it was just one bad apple. Imagine how many of his arrests and testimony were false and the impact that has had on society.


You asked a question and I answered it. Why are you attacking me?
 
2012-07-23 12:33:55 AM

CruiserTwelve: mopar1956: It just scares me that your argument is always that it was just one bad apple. Imagine how many of his arrests and testimony were false and the impact that has had on society.

You asked a question and I answered it. Why are you attacking me?


I would just like you to explain how a bad apple who you say is the 1% can keep getting promoted and that's not evidence of a systematic problem. I get that's what unions do but his own department thinks that he is maybe in the top 5 offenders. how is this possible? Sorry you feel attacked, imagine how the fine citizens feel.
 
2012-07-23 12:42:07 AM

mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.


I didn't say it was acceptable. But it is what it is. You're confusing an explanation with an excuse, and I'm sorry you can't understand the difference, or realize that just because something "seems wrong" doesn't mean it will go away because you disapprove.
 
2012-07-23 12:46:02 AM

Gyrfalcon: mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.

I didn't say it was acceptable. But it is what it is. You're confusing an explanation with an excuse, and I'm sorry you can't understand the difference, or realize that just because something "seems wrong" doesn't mean it will go away because you disapprove.


I understand why it happens. I guess my outrage is the idea that it is acceptable for it to happen. Futile grumblings on my part I guess.
 
2012-07-23 12:56:31 AM

CruiserTwelve: Again, I'm guessing the other cops hated the guy and are happy to see him finally go.


This makes me wonder how much he could have gotten away with if he had the support of his boss and his colleagues, and if his violations had been against (presumed) criminal types instead of against his family and fellow cops.

I mean, it's apparently still really hard to fire Rakun even after threats, domestic violence, public drunkenness, racist slurs, and lying to investigators. It would be much cheaper and easier to let him stay. If Rakun stayed on the force and progressively escalated the violence and abuse of power, it would get easier and easier to fire him and harder to let him stay, until at some point it would actually be easier to fire him than to let him go. What would it take to reach that point?

Now suppose there's a cop that Chief McManus thinks is a good guy, and the chief is willing to go just as far to keep this cop on the force as he would to get Rakun off the force. How much would this "good cop" have to do before it was just as difficult to keep him on the force as it is to get Rakun off the force?
 
2012-07-23 12:57:51 AM

AustinFakir: than to let him go

on.

FTFM
 
2012-07-23 01:00:27 AM

mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.

I didn't say it was acceptable. But it is what it is. You're confusing an explanation with an excuse, and I'm sorry you can't understand the difference, or realize that just because something "seems wrong" doesn't mean it will go away because you disapprove.

I understand why it happens. I guess my outrage is the idea that it is acceptable for it to happen. Futile grumblings on my part I guess.


Only if you sit around grumbling and being outraged and not offering (or better still, working for) changes that will punish the bad union members while protecting the good.

As long as the knee-jerk response to stuff like this is OMG! BAD COPZ! HANG 'M! and not to develop better ways to solve the problem--there will be no solution. Teachers' unions (the area I know more about than cop unions) cannot eliminate their members' due process unless there is a way to ensure that petty parents or vengeful students can't get teachers fired at the drop of a hat. Same is true for cops: The public hates cops, and will make up stuff to get their local flatfoot axed. Until there is a better way to sort through false accusations and honest mistakes, the public service unions have to protect ALL their members, and assume they are ALL good unless proven otherwise.

Outrage is fine--I am outraged when I hear of a dirty cop or a lousy teacher being shielded by their union. But I also don't want to see people who work for the public subject to the same whims that you or I have to worry about every time we go to work. (As in: Boss didn't get laid, boss fires your ass for being fifteen minutes late. Cop writes angry driver a ticket, angry driver files complaint with PD--and boss who didn't get laid fires cop)
 
2012-07-23 01:12:00 AM

Gyrfalcon: mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: mopar1956: Gyrfalcon: OnlyM3: mopar1956

Answer me this. If most of the good guy's were trying to get rid of him this whole time how in the hell did he get promoted during this tenure. BTW.. most people cannot be suspended from their jobs fifteen times and still keep them, get promoted, back pay etc... etc...

..... Notes crookedcop12 is dodging this simple question.

Note that I answered your question.

The union protects EVERYONE. If the guy was getting his due process hearings and not getting terminated, then one can assume they were stamped "unfounded". If an accusation is considered "unfounded" or he received other disciplinary action, then those suspensions are considered CLOSED. They exist no more than when you fill out an application and check "No" next to the question of whether you've ever been terminated from another job.

Now there is another possibility, which is that his superiors were trying to promote him off the street. A bad cop working a desk job is much less trouble than a bad cop out on a beat 12 hours a day; making him a lieutenant means he's under the eye of the watch captain during his 8-hour office shift and not out where he can kill someone. This happens a lot in civil service jobs where the person can't be fired--he's moved to a position of less public contact.

And this is acceptable? Business as usual I guess.

I didn't say it was acceptable. But it is what it is. You're confusing an explanation with an excuse, and I'm sorry you can't understand the difference, or realize that just because something "seems wrong" doesn't mean it will go away because you disapprove.

I understand why it happens. I guess my outrage is the idea that it is acceptable for it to happen. Futile grumblings on my part I guess.

Only if you sit around grumbling and being outraged and not offering (or better still, working for) changes that will punish the bad union members while protecting the good.

As long as the knee-jerk response to stu ...


Which is all reasonable. I think you are confusing a baseless or minor allegation which I believe would typically involve some sort of wright up or official reprimand with 15 suspensions, as in you you keep farking up so bad we would rather pay you to stay home.

You keep comparing police to teachers, which I believe is not honest. If a teacher is accused of spousal abuse, threatening someone and threatening a court official they wouldn't slap a gun in his hand and say have at the streets. Its kinda apples and oranges.

Solution. Take away immunity from police forces and absolute protection from their union. If you want to carry a gun drive a cruiser and be a hero, expect to be held to a higher standard.
 
2012-07-23 01:38:00 AM
I've been saying for years we need some sort of hybrid union for police. Unions are great, but office workers, laborers, and teachers don't have the ability to surveill, handcuff, beat, or shoot citizens as part of their work. A solution that provides police with collective bargaining for wages and benefits but requires more like military accountability on surveillance and force might be useful.
 
2012-07-23 08:10:24 AM

Saborlas: It seems the one offense that a cop will always be punished for is failure to maintain the blue wall.


THIS.

Police reform will never happen because of this attitude. Anyone inside the system who advocates or openly supports reform will be harassed, marginalized, and driven out... if not set up to be killed.

We need a Federal LE agency that has as it's sole mission to arrest and prosecute other cops. The FBI is supposed this but they have too many ties to state/local PDs to really do it effectively. How long have they been investigating Sheriff Joe? And how many arrests have been made.

An independent agency would have no conflicts of interest and no need to cooperate with the local yokels.
 
2012-07-23 08:14:06 AM

mopar1956: Solution. Take away immunity from police forces and absolute protection from their union. If you want to carry a gun drive a cruiser and be a hero, expect to be held to a higher standard.


So much THIS.

The way it is now, a cop will get suspended or fired for an offense that would get a civilian jail time.

This should be inverted. Cops who break the law should get a harsher punishment than a civilian who commits the same crime. Right-wingers love "zero tolerance" policies... so where's the zero tolerance policy for police corruption and abuse of power?
 
2012-07-23 09:02:03 AM

rappy: Benjimin_Dover: rappy: Benjimin_Dover: rappy: sobernutz: rappy: government grounds. One day, a visitor found a small box hidden in the bushes, which contained three joints. So, naturally, I called th

We caught a guy stealing, once inside of the office the dude dumps some needles and his stash into the trash can. We told the cops about it when they showed up to take him away. Their reply was MEH!!! Didn't see it happen, didn't occur.

I'm guessing you didn't mean to quote me on that since I didn't say that.

That was the point I was trying to make, cops aren't hiding in the bushes waiting for someone to throw away a couple of joints they found.

Except that he didn't find them. They were turned into him by somebody else. I suppose you would think that if he just pocketed any wallets or property that was turned in too would be just fine. If somebody turns in illegal drugs to somebody and they "just disappear" from the system, what do you think people are going to think happened to them?

My point is when someone turned them into him, he could have tossed them into the garbage can, because, as I said, cops aren't waiting in bushes for someone to throw a few joints away.

You can't compare joints to a wallet, that's just absurd. Are you going to return the joints to the original owner as you would a wallet? No, you're going to throw them away.

Someone found it, said hey I found this, so the guy decided to call the cops and waste their time instead of tossing them into the trash. I don't know what "system" you think this is entered into.

Hmm. So this security person knew for a fact that the person turning in the drugs was not part of some sort of "quality assurance" program internal to his organization to catch shady people? He knew for a fact that the person wasn't part of some sort of LEO operation? He had absolutely no reason to possibly fear that he might get in some sort of trouble if he made the drugs just disappear?

Awesome.

/cops hiding in the bushes wai ...


Says the person who just saw his point evaporate.
 
2012-07-23 09:06:46 AM
CruiserTwelve

mopar1956: It just scares me that your argument is always that it was just one bad apple. Imagine how many of his arrests and testimony were false and the impact that has had on society.

You asked a question and I answered it. Why are you attacking me?


Just because you defend a dirtbag crew that promotes one of its members that is beating women, threatening others lives? You're right. None of that deserves ridicule or shame. You don't happen to work for Penn state, do you?
 
2012-07-23 09:12:12 AM

ElLoco: CruiserTwelve: namatad: Just one rotten cop making the 1% look bad.

This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?

I think he might have been criticizing the fact that this guy had 14 duty suspensions for violation of department policy and a previous firing already on his record.

And these?
"Ten of the disciplinary actions against Rakun stem from his personal life and often involve his relationships with women. They have included allegations of domestic violence, leaving harassing messages for his ex-wife's divorce attorney and threatening a male acquaintance."

People who aren't cops get arrested for many of those things. Domestic violence? Isn't that a free ride to jail for some chillaxing time, on the spot, no questions asked, in pretty much all 50 states now?

The guy is a bad egg. His department was also at fault for not kicking him to the ditch about a dozen write-ups ago. Honestly, he fits the profile for a Blackwater grunt.


Don't know about other states, but try getting a carry permit after a domestic violence charge in Alabama.
I was in the permit office the other day when some guy was trying to get his concealed carry permit. Turned down because of an old charge.
But it's OK for this animal to have access to whatever he likes and a badge to back it up with.
 
2012-07-23 12:21:50 PM

OnlyM3: Just because you defend a dirtbag crew that promotes one of its members that is beating women, threatening others lives? You're right. None of that deserves ridicule or shame. You don't happen to work for Penn state, do you?


Please point out where I defended anyone in this thread. In fact, I made this statement: I don't support this cop in any way. It sounds like he's been a pain in the ass to his agency for a long time, and they've tried repeatedly to get rid of him but he uses every legal tactic at his disposal to prevent this. I don't know how his agency's disciplinary system works, but it obviously isn't working well.

Your post is precisely why I avoid posting in these threads any more. No matter what I say, it's filtered by some people to become a defense of bad cops. They can't fathom that most cops detest cops like the one in the article. We want those cops gone.
 
2012-07-23 07:12:25 PM
Are promotion levels given out per thousand cups of coffee?
 
2012-07-23 08:52:46 PM
Did ya ever notice how after the predictable "I'm not defending this bad cop BUT......" post from cruiser12 come the inevitable "that's why I don't post in these threads anymore" post from cruiser12?

I noticed that.
 
2012-07-23 09:23:03 PM

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Did ya ever notice how after the predictable "I'm not defending this bad cop BUT......" post from cruiser12 come the inevitable "that's why I don't post in these threads anymore" post from cruiser12?

I noticed that.


No, you didn't notice that, you made that up. Where in this thread or any other thread have I said "I'm not defending this cop BUT..." I didn't. I clearly said, and I repeat again, I don't support this cop in any way. It sounds like he's been a pain in the ass to his agency for a long time, and they've tried repeatedly to get rid of him but he uses every legal tactic at his disposal to prevent this. I don't know how his agency's disciplinary system works, but it obviously isn't working well.

That you have twisted this to fit your erroneous view of cops in general and me specifically is exactly why I avoid these threads. The fact that you find my opinions "predictable" is because you filter them to be so, not because they're actually predictable.
 
2012-07-23 10:09:36 PM

CruiserTwelve: No, you didn't notice that, you made that up


No I didn't.


This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?


You played the same two-step that you often do. You condemn the bad cop but insist that there's no systemic problem and you feel satisfied to wipe your hands and declare "See! The system works in the end!", In doing so you ignore the multitudes of people pointing out that "the system" for most jobs doesn't involve 15 incidents -- several of them criminal -- before a person loses that job,..and these are for jobs that don't hold the authority to wear a badge, carry a gun and put people in jail. You also ignore that "the system" promoted him repeatedly during the many many years that he held a badge and a gun.

You also ignore that "bad cop keeps job" is a common headline.

You ignore all of that. Very deliberately, considering how many times in this thread it's been pointed out.

....and then you play your self-flagellating "Oh, I don't know why I even bother posting in these threads", flounce like my Jewish momma.

I don't trust the police and your constant passive-aggressive "i'm not defending bad cops but...." defences of bad cops, in some small way, adds to that mistrust.

You're so used to the stink that you don't even smell what you're peddling anymore.
 
2012-07-23 10:31:34 PM

Bill_Wick's_Friend: You're so used to the stink that you don't even smell what you're peddling anymore.


I'm not peddling anything. You're reading way more into my posts than I'm saying. Just because I don't join the cop-hate brigade does not mean that I'm supporting or defending bad cops. I don't know how to make that any more clear than I already have.
 
2012-07-23 10:41:10 PM

CruiserTwelve: I don't know how to make that any more clear than I already have.


Fark commenters: Boo! Bad cop!

You: Sure sure, bad cop, but other thing, obfuscation, one bad apple, system worked eventually, union, something something hard dangerous job, not as bad as it could be, not as bad as it sounds, both sides are bad.

How could you make it more clear? Don't always do that. Cuz that's what you do.
 
2012-07-24 02:02:14 AM

CruiserTwelve: Your post is precisely why I avoid posting in these threads any more. No matter what I say, it's filtered by some people to become a defense of bad cops. They can't fathom that most cops detest cops like the one in the article. We want those cops gone.


But you're not willing to give up the benefits of belonging to the FOP (or whatever other union you're a member of), and happily pay your dues for their protection.

If you're not willing to give up YOUR security blanket to get rid of the bad cops, you're part of the problem.

If you pay dues to the organization that defends these shiatbags, you're part of the problem.

If you were serious about getting rid of the bad cops, you'd work to get rid of the organization that keeps them on the job. But you don't. You are an enabler. You are part of the problem.
 
2012-07-24 08:45:29 AM

Bill_Wick's_Friend: CruiserTwelve: I don't know how to make that any more clear than I already have.

Fark commenters: Boo! Bad cop!

You: Sure sure, bad cop, but other thing, obfuscation, one bad apple, system worked eventually, union, something something hard dangerous job, not as bad as it could be, not as bad as it sounds, both sides are bad.

How could you make it more clear? Don't always do that. Cuz that's what you do.


You have a very active imagination. I'm not going to feed it any more.
 
2012-07-24 08:46:53 AM

clyph: CruiserTwelve: Your post is precisely why I avoid posting in these threads any more. No matter what I say, it's filtered by some people to become a defense of bad cops. They can't fathom that most cops detest cops like the one in the article. We want those cops gone.

But you're not willing to give up the benefits of belonging to the FOP (or whatever other union you're a member of), and happily pay your dues for their protection.

If you're not willing to give up YOUR security blanket to get rid of the bad cops, you're part of the problem.

If you pay dues to the organization that defends these shiatbags, you're part of the problem.

If you were serious about getting rid of the bad cops, you'd work to get rid of the organization that keeps them on the job. But you don't. You are an enabler. You are part of the problem.


Um... yeah... We should get rid of the union because once in a great while it helps a bad cop keep his job. Right...

Do you have any idea what unions do?
 
2012-07-24 09:42:44 AM

CruiserTwelve:
Um... yeah... We should get rid of the union because once in a great while it helps a bad cop keep his job. Right...

Do you have any idea what unions do?


All too well. Much to my everlasting embarrassment, I am closely related to several LE officers by blood.

And yes, any organization that protects bad cops instead of throwing them to the wolves it is an enabler of corruption and abuse and should be abolished on those grounds. Organizations have a culture, and it's nearly impossible to change that culture, especially if has an institutionalized tolerance for corruption. Corrupt organizations cannot be reformed, they can only be destroyed.

You say you don't like corrupt cops, but you're unwilling to make any personal sacrifice to do something about it. So it's just lip service. You're still part of the problem.
 
2012-07-24 12:06:18 PM

clyph: If you were serious about getting rid of the bad cops, you'd work to get rid of the organization that keeps them on the job.


The organization that keeps them on the job is the employer not the union. If they fail to avail themselves of the tools that were negotiated into pretty much every union contract that are there specifically to remove bad apples, then they are the a-holes. However, having been a member of a union, it is all too common for members of management to view those tools as "too hard to employ" or "too much paper work" or "they aren't going to do any good anyways so why bother." They are there, so use them.
 
2012-07-24 01:30:48 PM

CruiserTwelve: You have a very active imagination


So you didn't say: "
This guy gets disciplined repeatedly and finally fired for being a jerk, and you still use it as a criticism of police in general?"

...while ignoring the fact that people in most jobs -- jobs that don't give authority to arrest, shoot, beat or electrically shock citizens -- don't get 15 criminal activities before they lose their jobs? Yes, that level of corruption IS a criticism of this department. A department that you defend because you seem to think that "one bad cop" operated in a vacuum for over a decade while being promoted.

You typed it. Now you backpedal. How....typical.
 
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