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(New York Daily News)   NY Daily News editorial board outraged, I say OUTRAGED that Obama and Romney did NOT freak out and use the Aurora massacre for panicked petty political stumping   (nydailynews.com) divider line 38
    More: Asinine, NY Daily News, obama, NRA, Wayne LaPierre, morning, accident happened, anxiety disorders, body counts  
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2828 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jul 2012 at 12:54 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-07-22 01:06:51 PM
6 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Another in the long list of "There is no difference between the two candidates" I mean seriously can anyone show me one difference between Bush 2 and 0bama and Romney? I cant think of one.


Ask Osama bin Laden.
2012-07-22 01:36:55 PM
5 votes:
This is how the "national dialogue" on gun control always goes after one of these massacres, and how it will inevitably go this time:

Responsible Citizen: "Oh my gosh, that's terrible! So many people killed! And apparently the gunman got those very high-powered weapons really easily. Maybe its time we talk about regulating those things more closely."

Republican: "How can you possibly advocate taking away MAH FREEDUMS to carry around a small arsenal wherever I go! Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"

Responsible Citizen: "Oh, um okay, maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle. You're right to point out the obviously very large role of the gunman. How about we invest in public mental health facilities and outreach programs to depressed/mentally unstable people? And how about we launch a public initiative to decrease poverty, which has been proven to exacerbate violent crime rates?"

Republican: "Are you kidding?! That's socialism! That's TYRANNY! YOU MIGHT AS WELL SHOOT EVERYBODY IN THE FACE!"

Responsible Citizen: "Ugh . . . okay, so what do you think we should do?"

Republican: "MAKE EVERYONE BUY GUNS AND CARRY THEM AROUND WHEREVER THEY GO!"

Responsible Citizen: "fark it. I'll just buy a bullet-proof vest . . ."

*walks away*
2012-07-22 01:59:37 PM
3 votes:

Frank N Stein: People were killed in Colorado. You know what this means? It means that we need to have a reasonable discussion about repealing the 2nd amendment. Also, it means that I can talk about penis sizes and how gun owners are racist.

Anyone who doesn't want a reasonable repeal of the second amendment has a small penis and hates black people.

/That's pretty much the argument you'll hear from the loons on fark.


I'll bite. Who is advocating repealing the second amendment again?

Are you basically saying that any form or regulation involving gun ownership is an infringement of your 2nd Amendment rights?

4.bp.blogspot.com
2012-07-22 01:56:20 PM
3 votes:
I'm in favor of gun control in the form of common-sense stuff like making sure the people who purchase firearms pass basic background and mental health exams, but from all accounts even that would not have helped here. I'm glad both parties are (mostly) staying away from their standard go-to talking points in tragedies like this, because neither more guns nor more regulation would have helped here.

I think the best thing that could be done in this country is for teenagers to be taught proper safety and reaction to firearms. They should be taught how to clear most weapons, how to tell if the safety is on or off, and how to find cover or concealment and move safely away from fire. The shooter drill should be as basic a safety drill as tornado, earthquke, or fire drills.
2012-07-22 02:25:22 PM
2 votes:

Giltric: LordJiro: bonefish: I've been getting great amusement out of the backseat Dirty Harry types who think that with their sidearm they could've made all the difference against a guy in armor, fully armed who got the drop on a room full of people. Yeah modern reality is totally the OK Corral.

Don't forget the smoke/gas bomb.

To suggest that ANYONE would've been prepared enough to safely take down the shooter in that situation is hopelessly naive.

Smoke, and darkness for that matter, works both ways right....you can't see him....he can't see you?


You really don't see a difference between a homicidal maniac shooting blindly into a crowd and crowd shooting blindly back?
2012-07-22 02:14:04 PM
2 votes:

Giltric: I thought Aurora was a gun free zone or something where CCW was not allowed.....due to the Columbine massacre 20 miles away.


lol, no... there's no such thing as a ccw zone in Colorado... there's like... federal buildings, post offices, and a couple other kinds of buildings you can't take guns into, but you couldn't possibly get a city ordinance to make a whole town be ccw-free. Liberal though I may be, we Coloradans do love guns. Aside from that, given the guy had an AR and a shotgun in addition to his two pistols, I don't really see how a ccw is relevant to him. In the theater, any well-trained person wouldn't have fired (even if they had their gun)... dark theater, hundreds of panicked patrons, tear gas f'n with your vision, and the shooter having body armor... odds are far higher that you'd end up killing an innocent person than killing the bad guy. Gohmert notwithstanding, reasonable gun owners would have done exactly what all the patrons of the theater did (given the numbers, I'd wager a couple had ccw permits and maybe even guns)... but you still do the right thing... get to a tactically better place, then evaluate the situation... given that police were on-site within two minutes, by the time any holders would have gotten to a reasonably safe place to engage, it was no longer their place to do so.
2012-07-22 02:02:13 PM
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Another in the long list of "There is no difference between the two candidates" I mean seriously can anyone show me one difference between Bush 2 and 0bama and Romney? I cant think of one.


Don't ask don't tell.
Gay marriage.
Disclosure of personal finances.
To start wars v. to end them.
Working towards universal healthcare (ACA doesn't achieve it, but gets us closer).

So... really, not one?
2012-07-22 01:55:45 PM
2 votes:

Frank N Stein: People were killed in Colorado. You know what this means? It means that we need to have a reasonable discussion about repealing the 2nd amendment. Also, it means that I can talk about penis sizes and how gun owners are racist.

Anyone who doesn't want a reasonable repeal of the second amendment has a small penis and hates black people.

/That's pretty much the argument you'll hear from the loons on fark.


Sounds like you guys are the real victims of this tragedy.
2012-07-22 01:54:34 PM
2 votes:

wolfjc: "I just want to know where the gunman got the SWAT outfit. They sell this stuff to the general public?"

Yes some one last night said on FOX News that you can buy that type of outfit on E-BAY.


Paintball friends of mine have riot gear-like stuff. You can go here and buy an entire riot gear kit for under $300. The site also sells gas masks & hazmat suits. That stuff isn't illegal to own. It just raises some serious questions if you're wearing it anywhere outside the police force or a paintball field.
2012-07-22 01:52:16 PM
2 votes:

Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: I thought Aurora was a gun free zone or something where CCW was not allowed.....due to the Columbine massacre 20 miles away.

Let me guess, you're one of those folks who think that this would've all been prevented if they allowed CCW in cinemas in Aurora.

Because anyone can accurately shoot a guy in a dark and smoky movie theater without harming someone else unintentionally.

*rolls eyes*

Not anyone....some people, sure.

Some groups do live fire training with living hostages sitting in front of paper targets.......

Are you saying it's impossible?


And the chances of someone that skilled being at a cinema in Aurora, CO at midnight are...?

I'm saying it's not realistic.
2012-07-22 01:39:58 PM
2 votes:

Giltric: I thought Aurora was a gun free zone or something where CCW was not allowed.....due to the Columbine massacre 20 miles away.


Let me guess, you're one of those folks who think that this would've all been prevented if they allowed CCW in cinemas in Aurora.

Because anyone can accurately shoot a guy in a dark and smoky movie theater without harming someone else unintentionally.

*rolls eyes*
2012-07-22 01:24:21 PM
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Snatch Bandergrip: bigsteve3OOO: Another in the long list of "There is no difference between the two candidates" I mean seriously can anyone show me one difference between Bush 2 and 0bama and Romney? I cant think of one.

Ask Osama bin Laden.

Both tried.


encrypted-tbn2.google.com
2012-07-22 01:16:25 PM
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Another in the long list of "There is no difference between the two candidates" I mean seriously can anyone show me one difference between Bush 2 and 0bama and Romney? I cant think of one.


www.demotivationalposters.org

I can.
2012-07-22 01:03:58 PM
2 votes:
Ugh, as with most everything in life, the answer lies somewhere in the middle -- between "this is the price we pay for not having to live in a total police state" to "maybe we should watch the sale of large amounts of ammo closer like we do with the chemicals to make meth, etc.".

Short of creating a jackboot thug police state to live in or inventing some magical gun disintegrator the only thing reasonable, to me anyway, is to watch closer the sales of ammo that fuel attacks like this. I'm not even sure that that would offer much.

Anyway, right after a tragedy like this is probably the exact wrong time to attempt any reasoned discussion.
2012-07-22 01:02:14 PM
2 votes:
Yes, it's truly a sad state of affairs when political opportunism takes a back seat to reasonable discussion.
2012-07-23 01:32:09 AM
1 votes:

teeny: Have you ever lost a friend or loved one to a deranged idiot wielding a firearm? Don't you think you should show a little empathy towards those that have (and JUST DID), and STFU? If there are any of you out there in the Aurora, CO area, I'm sure the parents of the dead 6-year-old will invite you to the funeral.


Actually I have lost a friend to gun violence. It sucks, but it didn't change my mind about respecting constitutional rights.
...But don't let that stop you from making a one sided emotional argument to capitalize on someone elses pain for your personal political gain.

/Remember after 9/11 when people did that to push through the patriot act?
/Remember what a bad idea that turned out to be?
/When did it become a good idea?
2012-07-22 04:41:19 PM
1 votes:

DempseySR26: Epoch_Zero: [i0.kym-cdn.com image 450x598]

[img11.imageshack.us image 467x616]

Fixed.


Unpossible, all liberals are gun grabbing, panty waist, tree huggers incapable of being manly enough to pick up a gun, much less fire it.

/you are a retard
2012-07-22 03:17:13 PM
1 votes:

keithgabryelski: actually -- you haven't listed one reasonable reason to own a gun such as was used by this shooter.


I haven't? Perhaps you and I don't really see eye-to-eye on this issue.

That said, you haven't listed one reason why one of the most common rifles in the country shouldn't be legal to own.

Our rights default to "on", whether it comes to free speech, buying firearms, fast cars, or junk food. The onus is on the one restricting that right to show why it should be restricted.

as for the definition of assault rifle -- how about any rifle that has any automation to the loading of a weapon of more than one intermediary round. we can negotiate what that means -- but I would be conservative in restricting more weapons rather than less.

So, the majority of all firearms in public hands? Sure, that seems totally reasonable.

and actually I'm looking for gun owners to come up with reasonable restrictions.

What's wrong with existing regulations? True machine guns are already highly regulated and extremely rare. Semi-automatic firearms are in wide use by the general public, so that's really not going to fly.

The 1994-2004 Federal AWB didn't really have any effect on crime, so why bother trying it again? As an aside, Switzerland (where I live) issues fully-auto automatic rifles to the civilian population (military service is mandatory for able-bodied/minded males) and they keep these weapons and ammo in their homes. Ownership of private firearms, including semi-automatic firearms, is extremely common. Violent crime rates are extremely low, even with access to military-grade firepower. Why not look to the Swiss for inspiration as to how they are able to have such a relatively violence-free society even with such firearms?

it's time to admit we don't need as many guns and the kind of guns we have.

Ok, then don't buy those types of guns. Nobody's forcing you to.

Knee-jerk reactions to rare, high-profile events are almost certainly not the correct course of action.
2012-07-22 03:14:07 PM
1 votes:
i0.kym-cdn.com
2012-07-22 02:29:40 PM
1 votes:
Personally, I think this is a mental health issue first, then a gun control issue second. And only in the context of "should mentally unstable / bat shiat crazy people have access to guns? hell no."
2012-07-22 02:26:50 PM
1 votes:

keithgabryelski: Is there a reasonable reason to own an assault weapon or have the ability to purchase thousands of rounds of bullets?


Define "assault weapon". Be specific, please.

If you mean AR-15s, yes, there's plenty of reasons why they should be open for ownership: they're one of the most widely-used firearms in America for a reason. They're moderately priced, reasonably accurate, have tons of accessories/mods, fire a reasonably affordable cartridge, have good ergonomics, adjustable components for shooters of various sizes and builds, etc. They're extremely popular. Their only "sin" is that they look scary to some people.

They're functionally identical to other semi-auto rifles like the Mini-14: they fire the same cartridge at comparable velocities. The Federal Assault Weapons Ban from 1994-2004 banned AR-15s (among others) but not Mini-14s even though they're essentially the same. California's AWB still does. There's really no reason why they should be restricted and other semi-auto rifles not.

As for thousands of rounds of ammo, I don't really see the concern: I can easily go through 200 rounds of ammo during a range session. Many vendors offer discounts for bulk purchases because it saves them effort: rather than needing to unpack all the 20-round boxes from a 1,000 case, they can just put a shipping label on the case itself and send it. Same thing with even larger quantities. For example, ammoman.com offers a $20 discount if you buy 5,000 rounds of ammo at a time rather than the 1,000 case.

When military-surplus .30-06 Springfield ammo was available from South Korea at reasonable prices, I would routinely buy a few thousand rounds a week for a month or two -- it's military-surplus, so they're not making any new ammo, the price was right, and it ran great through my M1 Garand. Nothing nefarious about that.

.22 Long Rifle ammo is commonly available in 500-round "bricks". Considering the relative cost of shipping ammo, it's often cheaper to buy in bulk. Buying 5,000 rounds at a time is relatively common, particularly if one can get all the ammo from the same manufacturers lot. Buying from the same lot helps ensure consistency, as the ammo was made around the same time, on the same day, on the same machine. This is a great benefit for competition shooters who can go through thousands of rounds of ammo in training and competitions.

Buying the ammo in individual boxes at a retail store would significantly increase the cost.

In short: Yes, there are perfectly legitimate reasons for wanting to own "assault weapons" and to buy thousands of rounds of ammo at a time.
2012-07-22 02:06:34 PM
1 votes:

GhostFish: The police chief in Aurora, Colo., said he is confident that massacre gunman James Holmes acted alone. The police chief was dead wrong.
Standing at Holmes' side as he unleashed an AR-15 assault rifle and a shotgun and a handgun was Wayne LaPierre, political enforcer of the National Rifle Association.
Standing at Holmes' side as he sprayed bullets and buckshot into a crowded movie theater were Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, a President and a would-be President, who have bowed to the NRA's dictates and who responded to the slaughter Friday with revolting, useless treacle.

Author is a disgusting human being and needs mental help. I recommend percussive therapy.


If this had been like, some kind of issue where the guy had been previously committed, and it hadn't shown up on a background check, or the guy had a history of violent crimes that maybe weren't felonious, then we could have some kind of reason for tweeking gun control laws, maybe serially violent people (even if not felonious) shouldn't be able to get guns, and maybe there are problems with background checks... but this guy was a clean as a whistle law-abiding citizen right up until he was a mass-murderer... I'm not going to categorize all of the first category as high-risk of falling into the second category. There are reasonable forms of gun control, but pretty much none of those would have stopped this guy... even if there were no guns at all, it's pretty evident he had some serious bomb-making skills... what then, we're going to ban learning about chemistry (your house has the materials to make a bomb too, usually right under the kitchen sink or out in the garage)...
2012-07-22 02:01:03 PM
1 votes:

Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: I thought Aurora was a gun free zone or something where CCW was not allowed.....due to the Columbine massacre 20 miles away.

Let me guess, you're one of those folks who think that this would've all been prevented if they allowed CCW in cinemas in Aurora.

Because anyone can accurately shoot a guy in a dark and smoky movie theater without harming someone else unintentionally.

*rolls eyes*

Not anyone....some people, sure.

Some groups do live fire training with living hostages sitting in front of paper targets.......

Are you saying it's impossible?

And the chances of someone that skilled being at a cinema in Aurora, CO at midnight are...?

I'm saying it's not realistic.

There were military personnel in the theatre at the time....some might even be victims, but none were armed, and I don;t have access to their dd214's to see if they attended any schools where they might be more proficient in violence of action then normal military personnel.

It could be more realistic then you think.

u skeered?


No, why would I be scared?

I still think it's an unrealistic expectation to expect someone to accurately shoot someone in a dark smoky movie theater where everyone is running in a panic and getting in the way of someone trying to shoot the main shooter.
2012-07-22 01:58:19 PM
1 votes:
Sounds like the media is all butthurt when people don't react to things the way they want them to do.
2012-07-22 01:58:07 PM
1 votes:

FishStampede: I think the best thing that could be done in this country is for teenagers to be taught proper safety and reaction to firearms. They should be taught how to clear most weapons, how to tell if the safety is on or off, and how to find cover or concealment and move safely away from fire. The shooter drill should be as basic a safety drill as tornado, earthquke, or fire drills.


Maybe it would be easier to stop fostering a delusional sense of entitlement.
2012-07-22 01:54:53 PM
1 votes:

NeoCortex42: Lost Thought 00: HotWingConspiracy: There is quite literally no way to stop them.

Anyone owning more than X guns or rounds of ammunition must submit to annual mental examinations.

Or at the very least, a quick visit and interview by the cops. No charges or anything. Just a "Hey, you aren't going to use these to go on a rampage or anything? Are you?"

Once somebody starts orders thousands of rounds of ammunition, they should be on a watch list of some sort. Nothing to restrict any of their freedoms, but at least worth checking in with on a regular basis to make sure they're still thinking rationally.


Someone active in shooting sports will go through thousands of rounds easily.

But the cops that you want to interview people...are they the same cops that regularly pull black people over for ummm suspicious activity, pull their glock instead of their taser and shoot someone accidentally , spray peper spray in peaceful protestors faces and use qtips to rub the irritating agent directly on their eyes. plant drugs or weapons in suspects, kick down the door to the wrong apartment and shoot little old ladies sitting in easy chairs......those cops?
2012-07-22 01:54:26 PM
1 votes:

Giltric: Some groups do live fire training with living hostages sitting in front of paper targets.......


Yeah. They're hicks, Rita.
2012-07-22 01:51:07 PM
1 votes:

Lost Thought 00: HotWingConspiracy: There is quite literally no way to stop them.

Anyone owning more than X guns or rounds of ammunition must submit to annual mental examinations.


Holmes bought the guns and ammo within a span of 60 days. He had 300 to go before his next exam.
2012-07-22 01:47:21 PM
1 votes:
Obamacare is more of a step in the right direction to prevent this sort of thing than any form of gun control. If this guy could have had some sort of mental health care for whatever demons he has this could have been prevented. We're close to the financial burden not being an issue and the next step is getting rid of the social stigma against mental problems.
2012-07-22 01:46:03 PM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: There is quite literally no way to stop them.


Anyone owning more than X guns or rounds of ammunition must submit to annual mental examinations.
2012-07-22 01:43:40 PM
1 votes:

Last Man on Earth: Okay, I'm not taking a side on the whole gun-control shiatstorm, but that argument is a complete load and you know it. Any gun owner who uses it for a massacre automatically doesn't qualify as responsible. Any time something like this happens, that "responsible gun owner" line is brought out as a No True Scotsman.


My thing is the person that is responsible today is one perceived slight or bout of crazy away from being wildly irresponsible. I uh...don't generally trust people, and I can't think of anyone that should be allowed to possess the kinds and volume of weapons that this guy did. He looked great on paper, but here we are. There are a lot of unstable people in our midst.

Basically, I'm starting to look at anyone that owns arsenals as a future spree killer. There is quite literally no way to stop them.
2012-07-22 01:30:37 PM
1 votes:
mjcdn.motherjones.com

Patience, the leader of the GOP is too busy reading comic books yet to comment on the Aurora Tragedy.
2012-07-22 01:28:58 PM
1 votes:

b0rg9: Ugh, as with most everything in life, the answer lies somewhere in the middle -- between "this is the price we pay for not having to live in a total police state" to "maybe we should watch the sale of large amounts of ammo closer like we do with the chemicals to make meth, etc.".
Short of creating a jackboot thug police state to live in or inventing some magical gun disintegrator the only thing reasonable, to me anyway, is to watch closer the sales of ammo that fuel attacks like this. I'm not even sure that that would offer much.
Anyway, right after a tragedy like this is probably the exact wrong time to attempt any reasoned discussion.


What drives me crazy about any gun related discussion is that everyone is basically in the middle. But EVERY argument gets turned into a discussion of extremes. No one thinks we should confiscate all weapons. No one thinks weaponized anthrax should be sold to the general public. So everyone in America is in 100% agreement that we will have both guns and some reasonable laws regarding them. But anytime a topic comes up about a specific gun law, instead of arguing the merits of that law, it becomes:
Line 1: "The 2nd Amendment is absolute!"
Line 2: "Not it isn't."
Line 3: "Yes it is!"
Line 4: Go to line 2
2012-07-22 01:21:12 PM
1 votes:
The police chief in Aurora, Colo., said he is confident that massacre gunman James Holmes acted alone. The police chief was dead wrong.
Standing at Holmes' side as he unleashed an AR-15 assault rifle and a shotgun and a handgun was Wayne LaPierre, political enforcer of the National Rifle Association.
Standing at Holmes' side as he sprayed bullets and buckshot into a crowded movie theater were Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, a President and a would-be President, who have bowed to the NRA's dictates and who responded to the slaughter Friday with revolting, useless treacle.


Author is a disgusting human being and needs mental help. I recommend percussive therapy.
2012-07-22 01:19:23 PM
1 votes:

wolfjc: "I just want to know where the gunman got the SWAT outfit. They sell this stuff to the general public?"

Yes some one last night said on FOX News that you can buy that type of outfit on E-BAY.


Well, buying that stuff might be noteworthy to authorities, unless you're going up against well armed deer.
2012-07-22 01:17:37 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: I just want to know where the gunman got the SWAT outfit. They sell this stuff to the general public?


Yes. Including body armor.
2012-07-22 01:13:30 PM
1 votes:
Can you imagine what the NY Daily News Op-Ed would be saying if Obama had?
2012-07-22 01:00:35 PM
1 votes:
What better time to brIng up a debate about gun control and our shiatty mental health services than after a crazy dude goes on a mass killing spree?
 
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