Well, now that they've got that monument to infamy out of the way, what to do with the empty space? I know, let's inflame the thing even further! How about a group statuary to replace it, perhaps a nice shower scene.......sort of a "Laocoön Group" for Happy Valley.

My choice would be a simple plaque, viz:

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

topcon: jfarkinB: topcon: I'd love to have that for my back yard, if they're not gonna use it anywhere else.

Me too. They recently ran sewer service out our way, and I'll be needing fill material for the septic tank.

I would simply rename the statue Todd and give it my own backstory, and decorate it with a lovely hat and coat.

Pffft... In fifty years, it'll wind up on whatever incarnation of Antiques Roadshow is around, and the daughter of the cute girl who handles the sports memorabilia will probably tell you it's worth a few bucks.

rico567: Well, now that they've got that monument to infamy out of the way, what to do with the empty space? I know, let's inflame the thing even further! How about a group statuary to replace it, perhaps a nice shower scene.......sort of a "Laocoön Group" for Happy Valley.

My choice would be a simple plaque, viz:

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

gimmegimme: rico567: Well, now that they've got that monument to infamy out of the way, what to do with the empty space? I know, let's inflame the thing even further! How about a group statuary to replace it, perhaps a nice shower scene.......sort of a "Laocoön Group" for Happy Valley.

My choice would be a simple plaque, viz:

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Dude, we're talkin' bout a university, not a place for book learnin'.

/and if there must be book learnin', multiple choice please, none of this literary crap

You can look it up on opensecrets.org. You have to provide the name, state, etc. because of their spam filter:

Link

JoePa contributed to two political candidates in 2008.

Joe Sestak, $1,000
Barack Obama, $250

A clear sign that Paterno was a political whore lacking any integrity and core values.

gimmegimme: You mean like protecting football players from getting in trouble so they won't be put on academic probation?

You mean like how Paterno took his star wide receiver out of the '97 Citris Bowl over academic problems even though he was still academically eligible to play?

GoldSpider: gimmegimme: You mean like protecting football players from getting in trouble so they won't be put on academic probation?

You mean like how Paterno took his star wide receiver out of the '97 Citris Bowl over academic problems even though he was still academically eligible to play?

Yes, yes. Hitler loved his dogs. Stalin would pat the children on their heads as he walked by. Alexander the Great would favor strangers with a showtune, if the mood struck him.

gimmegimme: Yes, yes. Hitler loved his dogs. Stalin would pat the children on their heads as he walked by. Alexander the Great would favor strangers with a showtune, if the mood struck him.

The invitation to you to prove your assertion that Penn State/Paterno facilitated academic underachievement among the football team is still open.

Doris D-Day: I live in PA where people who do not have college degrees have Penn State tattoos. It's creepy, really. Culty. The takedown is necessary.

Same here in Georgia, where every other mouthbreather with a GED has UGA crap all over their truck.

Which, honestly, is part of what makes the aftermath of this scandal so delicious for me - the crossover between these supporters and the Tea Party must be huge - enjoy. lol

consider this: I guess you missed the part where Penn State conducted an investigation in 1998 and turned it over to the police and child welfare.

I'm talking about how Paterno insisted that he would discipline players his own way, meaning they were treated differently than other athletes at Penn State, which violates NCAA rules.

WhyteRaven74: I'm talking about how Paterno insisted that he would discipline players his own way, meaning they were treated differently than other athletes at Penn State, which violates NCAA rules.

What does that have to do with the sanctions being levied or blaming Paterno for covering up the abuse of children?

Captain_Ballbeard: Doris D-Day: I live in PA where people who do not have college degrees have Penn State tattoos. It's creepy, really. Culty. The takedown is necessary.

Same here in Georgia, where every other mouthbreather with a GED has UGA crap all over their truck.

Which, honestly, is part of what makes the aftermath of this scandal so delicious for me - the crossover between these supporters and the Tea Party must be huge - enjoy. lol

I know one of those idiots. The guy went to college in Lousiana at some third rate university, but lives and dies by Georgia Bulldog games.

The best part? He grew up in Florida.

It makes my head spin.

consider this: Owangotang: the fans will still be zealots

Why do so many of you have a problem with college football fans being so passionate? I swear, some of you are more interested in seeing the fans being punished than the people responsible for allowing the abuse to take place.

If this happened in Tuscaloosa not only would I not go to games, I would be ashamed to wear my colors in public. I'm as passionate an Alabama fan as you will find. I proudly own a personally autographef picture of Coach Bryant, and even call myself the team name on internet forums, but that would end the second I found out about the systematic institutionalized cover up for and the enabling of a child predator to use the football team and facilities to RAPE CHILDREN. I would campaign for the death penalty.

Why can't you idiots at Penn State and it's legion of apologists understand the gravity of this situation?

Also, where's the proof that his discipline was more lenient than what others would have imposed? As somebody already pointed out, Paterno once held a star player out of a game as punishment when he had been ruled eligible to play.

consider this: What does that have to do with the sanctions being levied or blaming Paterno for covering up the abuse of children?

You realize the NCAA is sanctioning Penn State for all their violations? It's not just the Sandusky issue that will be dealt with tomorrow, but all of their rules violations.

GoldSpider: gimmegimme: Yes, yes. Hitler loved his dogs. Stalin would pat the children on their heads as he walked by. Alexander the Great would favor strangers with a showtune, if the mood struck him.

The invitation to you to prove your assertion that Penn State/Paterno facilitated academic underachievement among the football team is still open.

It's awfully hard to succeed in academics if you are on academic probation or are kicked out of school for breaking university rules. Joe Paterno made sure that his players were subject to a different law. His law. I posted this earlier.

Second, the logical conclusion of your thought is silly. Jerry Sandusky helped the players he didn't rape, didn't he? Sandusky taught them about life and how to play football and surely reinforced the importance of academics.

Third, when someone does something so wrong that they become a piece of shiat, all the good that they have done is wiped away. Why are you trying to look for the good in a man who had no morals and didn't give a shiat about anyone but himself and his legacy? A legacy, by the way, that is now in "secure storage."

WhyteRaven74: You realize the NCAA is sanctioning Penn State for all their violations? It's not just the Sandusky issue that will be dealt with tomorrow, but all of their rules violations.

That's 100% incorrect. The ruling tomorrow is only in response to the Sandusky situation.

consider this: That's 100% incorrect. The ruling tomorrow is only in response to the Sandusky situation.

Let's see, tomorrow they'll talk about a lack of institutional control. That covers not just Sandusky but at least part of their other violations. And they can't very well leave some violations to be dealt with later, the NCAA takes on everything at once.

gimmegimme: Third, when someone does something so wrong that they become a piece of shiat, all the good that they have done is wiped away.

Life doesn't work in absolutes the way you seem to think it does. As bad as this is, it doesn't somehow reverse the impact he's had on the people he's directly influenced over the course of his career.

consider this: WhyteRaven74: You realize the NCAA is sanctioning Penn State for all their violations? It's not just the Sandusky issue that will be dealt with tomorrow, but all of their rules violations.

That's 100% incorrect. The ruling tomorrow is only in response to the Sandusky situation.

Sports illustrated seems to disagree with you, saying the penalties are the results of the Freeh report.

GoldSpider: gimmegimme: Third, when someone does something so wrong that they become a piece of shiat, all the good that they have done is wiped away.

Life doesn't work in absolutes the way you seem to think it does. As bad as this is, it doesn't somehow reverse the impact he's had on the people he's directly influenced over the course of his career.

Okay, okay. Fine. You've convinced me. Jerry Sandusky isn't a piece of shiat and we should recognize the great good he has done for hundreds, if not thousands, of people.

TheManofPA: FYI, your only supporter is a troll account...

You seem to be under the impression I'm against the removal of the statue, despite my post to the contrary. Dare I ask what esteemed institution graduated you with such marginal reading comprehension skills?

gimmegimme: Okay, okay. Fine. You've convinced me. Jerry Sandusky isn't a piece of shiat and we should recognize the great good he has done for hundreds, if not thousands, of people.

You weren't talking about Sandusky. Nevertheless, despite the horrible things Sandusky has done, there are people that have probably benefited from their association with him as well.

I'm sorry if that upsets you.

GoldSpider: gimmegimme: Okay, okay. Fine. You've convinced me. Jerry Sandusky isn't a piece of shiat and we should recognize the great good he has done for hundreds, if not thousands, of people.

You weren't talking about Sandusky. Nevertheless, despite the horrible things Sandusky has done, there are people that have probably benefited from their association with him as well.

I'm sorry if that upsets you.

Yes, and Hitler used to bake delicious bundt cakes.

The Ice Queen: Ok, got a question (because I don't understand the ranking system).

Say the NCAA does come down on PSU and they get the death penalty for a few years. Now, I know schedules are set up sometimes years in advance. What happens to the schools that were schedule to play them this season? Does this hurt them in the points system or would it just be like having another week off? Are the other schools allowed to schedule a new opponent or would they have to wait until next season at the earliest?

Thanks!

It's kind of unprecedented. I THINK they could reschedule them. I'm sure there's some little AA school they could pay to play against that would love to have a 1-A school come practice against them.

Vodka Zombie: Yes, and Hitler used to bake delicious bundt cakes.

And your point...?

GoldSpider: Vodka Zombie: Yes, and Hitler used to bake delicious bundt cakes.

And your point...?

That because someone does good for some people, it can't balance out for the atrocities that allowed/perpetrated against others.

"It's just another crime being committed," Lamey said of the statue's removal.

True. Removing a statue is right up there with covering up the systematic, institutionalized ass-rape of little boys. I'm glad someone had the guts to put this in the correct perspective.

jso2897: They're still keeping his name on the library. They really don't get it.

No, that's cool. It's to remind people of the importance of keeping quiet.

/Not my joke - heard it here. Bears repeating, though.

jayphat: That because someone does good for some people, it can't balance out for the atrocities that allowed/perpetrated against others.

I agree, it doesn't work like that either. The weight that is given to the good vs. the bad, respectively, is a matter of opinion. For myself, it's an easy call that Sandusky's evils (to say nothing of what we don't yet know) outweigh his positive contributions. With regards to Paterno, I think it's a tougher call, even though my opinions of him have evolved as we learned more about his involvement. For now I will have to be content with knowing that he has done a lot of good things over his life and career, and one really horrible thing.

GoldSpider: jayphat: That because someone does good for some people, it can't balance out for the atrocities that allowed/perpetrated against others.

I agree, it doesn't work like that either. The weight that is given to the good vs. the bad, respectively, is a matter of opinion. For myself, it's an easy call that Sandusky's evils (to say nothing of what we don't yet know) outweigh his positive contributions. With regards to Paterno, I think it's a tougher call, even though my opinions of him have evolved as we learned more about his involvement. For now I will have to be content with knowing that he has done a lot of good things over his life and career, and one really horrible thing.

But what about all the GOOD things Hitler did?

GoldSpider: The weight that is given to the good vs. the bad, respectively, is a matter of opinion

Indeed - and your opinion is wrong.

I'm going to say some obvious things but this Penn State thing has disturbed me to a level I rarely go to. The school not only failed itself then and the community, it continues to. No one in the administration seems to realize that their measures need to be dramatic and public. Your University enabled decades of child rape in the name of football wins. Jesus, get it together. If Penn State wants ANY return to credibility they have to stop all the hand wringing and pending case nonsense. Fix it. Make it quick, devastating, and high profile. Act like you're adults for once in the past 30 years.

Bigger Leftist Intarweb Schlong: But what about all the GOOD things Hitler did?

You guys comparing Paterno to Hitler, and telling *US* to get some perspective, are just adorable.

GoldSpider: Bigger Leftist Intarweb Schlong: But what about all the GOOD things Hitler did?

You guys comparing Paterno to Hitler, and telling *US* to get some perspective, are just adorable.

You're being sillypants again. We're pointing out that just because someone does a good thing doesn't outweigh the terrible evil they visit upon the world.

//Jeffrey Dahmer would always put a dollar in the Salvation Army kettle.

gimmegimme: You're being sillypants again. We're pointing out that just because someone does a good thing doesn't outweigh the terrible evil they visit upon the world.

What exactly did Paterno do or fail to do? The only proven incident that he was involved in was when Mike McCreary reported an incident to him in 2001 and he did nothing but report it to his supervisors. Paterno's claim was that he wasn't sure what to do so decided to let somebody else deal with it. In hindsight, he says he wishes that he had done more.

Some of you are talking as if Paterno was in the shower, holding the feet of the victims.

consider this: What exactly did Paterno do or fail to do?

Let's see, he made sure no one touched Sandusky, lied to a grand jury, broke NCAA rules beyond anything to do with the Sandusky situation.

gimmegimme: We're pointing out that just because someone does a good thing doesn't outweigh the terrible evil they visit upon the world.

And all I'm saying is that deciding where that balance is is a matter of each's own opinion. If you really want to believe that Paterno's good/evil ratio compares to Hitler, the fact that I disagree doesn't mean I can stop you from believing that.

consider this: What exactly did Paterno do or fail to do? The only proven incident that he was involved in was when Mike McCreary reported an incident to him in 2001 and he did nothing but report it to his supervisors. Paterno's claim was that he wasn't sure what to do so decided to let somebody else deal with it. In hindsight, he says he wishes that he had done more.

Looks like someone didn't read the Freeh report. You aren't doing your cause any good, you know. For your sake, I hope you're trolling.

consider this: Also, where's the proof that his discipline was more lenient than what others would have imposed? As somebody already pointed out, Paterno once held a star player out of a game as punishment when he had been ruled eligible to play.

Link

A former Penn State official charged with enforcing discipline at the school said Tuesday that Joe Paterno's players got in trouble more often than other students, and got special treatment compared to non-athletes.

Vicky Triponey, who resigned her post as the university's standards and conduct officer in 2007, confirmed that she sent a 2005 email to then-president Graham Spanier and others in which she expressed her concerns about how Penn State handled discipline cases involving football players. The Wall Street Journal published excerpts from the email on Tuesday.

Paterno "is insistent he knows best how to discipline his players ... and their status as a student when they commit violations of our standards should NOT be our concern ... and I think he was saying we should treat football players different from other students in this regard," Triponey wrote in the Aug. 12, 2005, email.

"Coach Paterno would rather we NOT inform the public when a football player is found responsible for committing a serious violation of the law and/or our student code," she wrote, "despite any moral or legal obligation to do so."

...

Interviewed by The Associated Press at her Charleston home, Triponey said that throughout her tenure at Penn State there was "an ongoing debate" over who should deal with misconduct by football players.

Her 2005 email was sent the day after a heated meeting in which Paterno complained about the discipline process.

"He knew better than anyone how to discipline them. We wanted to show him the (disciplinary) data and suggest that 'Well, whatever it is we're doing, it's not working.' They're getting into trouble at a greater rate than they should. We wanted to find a way to address that," she said. "The meeting ended up being a one-sided conversation with the coach talking about his frustrations, his anger, his not being happy with the way we were running the system."

...

She told the AP that pressure to go easier on football players increased as her tenure went on.

"Many times, (because of) the pressure placed on us by the president or the football coach, eventually, we would end up doing sanctions that were not what another student would've got," she said. "It was much less. It was adapted to try to accommodate the concerns of the coach."

/white-knighting for Paterno
//with a 3-week-old-account
///plenty of bites

WhyteRaven74: Let's see, he made sure no one touched Sandusky, lied to a grand jury, broke NCAA rules beyond anything to do with the Sandusky situation.

Made sure nobody touched Sandusky - flat out lie and not in the report
Lied to a grand jury - no evidence of this
Broke NCAA rules - speculation

There's one email in regards to the 1998 incident where somebody stated that "coach wants to know" the current status of the Sandusky investigation but that's in no way proof that Paterno knew about the incident.

GoldSpider: gimmegimme: We're pointing out that just because someone does a good thing doesn't outweigh the terrible evil they visit upon the world.

And all I'm saying is that deciding where that balance is is a matter of each's own opinion. If you really want to believe that Paterno's good/evil ratio compares to Hitler, the fact that I disagree doesn't mean I can stop you from believing that.

Unfortunately, subtlety and reason don't work with the JoePa defenders. If they did, they wouldn't be defending JoePa.