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(Guardian)   New study shows that the rich are hiding between $21-32 trillion in offshore tax havens around the world. A sum greater than the entire US economy and enough to bail out all of the EU and put Africa on its feet   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 306
    More: Asinine, tax havens  
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3864 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jul 2012 at 2:47 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-22 07:01:09 AM

USP .45: jso2897: The people we are talking about wish to stay, and enjoy the privileges of staying - just not to pay for it. Deadbeats.

which is nonsense because they still do pay more than most, especially those that pay nothing.

If I double my income overnight, and it's now twice that of my neighbor, how am I using the privileges of the United States to a higher degree?


I think my gas bill is "too high" - does that relieve me of the obligation of paying it? To me, the only thing that would justify not paying for it would be choosing to live without it. But then, I'm an ethically consistent person who doesn't think the universe revolves around him, personally.
The argument over whether the wealthy are undertaxed, overtaxed, or whatever is an academic one of little interest to me, and i don't argue those points with membres of the "taxation is theft" crowd because I find it boring. If rich people think America taxes them too much, they should leave, or stay and fight for lower tax rates in the political arena - it isn't as if they lack the clout. Cheating on ones taxes and hiding ones money is the unethical, sociopathic response to that situation. That of a deadbeat.
 
2012-07-22 07:02:14 AM

intelligent comment below: Tor_Eckman: intelligent comment below: USP .45: I'll pay what everyone else has to pay. Equal protection under the law, right libs? Right?


So you're just here to distract from the problems raised in the article and troll useless soundbites.

He seems to be a little out of practice. He is one of the old righty trolls that have popped up here recently after having been pretty much dormant for the last few years.

It's an odd phenomenon.


It's only a handful of people. They just keep switching between their alts every few days or weeks to make it seem like there's more like minded fools out there


Sock puppet software is what you want to read up on. It's use indicates that you can never get an idea of what the opinion of the masses is by looking at Internet forums. Even before the development of sock puppet software forums didn't express public opinion but the software has really exaggerated the problem.
 
2012-07-22 07:04:25 AM

Curse of the Goth Kids: That man was a product of Saudi-style feudalism. Before his family cut him off, he had access to the kind of wealth that allowed him to buy off entire (third world, shiathole) countries. He did not give two farks about your first or second or third amendment rights. Nobody voted for this guy. He wasn't obligated to build infrastructure or educate anybody, he did precisely what he wanted: he murdered a ton of people. And for the first time, if not in history than in a long, long time indeed, the US found itself in the bizarre position of going to war not against some other country but against one super-wealthy Ur-Libertarian and the private terrorist enterprise he was able to put together.


I don't think that word means what you think it means.
 
2012-07-22 07:09:39 AM

jso2897: I think my gas bill is "too high" - does that relieve me of the obligation of paying it? To me, the only thing that would justify not paying for it would be choosing to live without it. But then, I'm an ethically consistent person who doesn't think the universe revolves around him, personally.


Since the set gas tax is a flat per gallon usage fee, often to pay for the roads on which you use the gas, you would only be justified in not paying for it by not using it.

Basically, you're in favor of a policy in where the gas tax you pay at the pump is based on your income, or how much a loaf of bread costs you is based on your income.

You should also be in favor of taxing midgets for the same reason.

Rock. Farking. Solid. Logic.

/I have the feeling you're equating not paying confiscatory taxes as stealing, which is just laughable, so I changed your example into automotive gas to demonstrate the same point.
 
2012-07-22 07:14:40 AM

USP .45: jso2897: The people we are talking about wish to stay, and enjoy the privileges of staying - just not to pay for it. Deadbeats.

which is nonsense because they still do pay more than most, especially those that pay nothing.

If I double my income overnight, and it's now twice that of my neighbor, how am I using the privileges of the United States to a higher degree?


They also have more than most especially those that have (next to) nothing.

Do not continue to labor under the delusion that taxes are some kind of usage fee and that it's only "fair" if you get out exactly what you put in. Your hypothetically doubled income puts you in a better position to help pay for the cost of civilization which we all enjoy and a dollar from you wallet hurts you less than a dollar from your neighbors wallet.
 
2012-07-22 07:17:27 AM

USP .45: jso2897: The people we are talking about wish to stay, and enjoy the privileges of staying - just not to pay for it. Deadbeats.

which is nonsense because they still do pay more than most, especially those that pay nothing.

If I double my income overnight, and it's now twice that of my neighbor, how am I using the privileges of the United States to a higher degree?


Very simple, actually. You have more to lose, and therefore are enjoying more benefit from the military, police forces, and fire department. And that's just the protection services.

Let's assume that you doubled your income by opening a business. You therefore get more use out of the courts for contracts, negotiation, and enforcement of such for your business. You get more utility out of the highway system to move your goods, or from the FAA if you ship your goods by air. You also benefit more from the educational system by having employees that are educated enough to do the tasks you require completed, to continue earning your additional profit.

There are further examples, but I've got other things to get accomplished.
 
2012-07-22 07:19:42 AM

USP .45: jso2897: I think my gas bill is "too high" - does that relieve me of the obligation of paying it? To me, the only thing that would justify not paying for it would be choosing to live without it. But then, I'm an ethically consistent person who doesn't think the universe revolves around him, personally.

Since the set gas tax is a flat per gallon usage fee, often to pay for the roads on which you use the gas, you would only be justified in not paying for it by not using it.

Basically, you're in favor of a policy in where the gas tax you pay at the pump is based on your income, or how much a loaf of bread costs you is based on your income.

You should also be in favor of taxing midgets for the same reason.

Rock. Farking. Solid. Logic.

/I have the feeling you're equating not paying confiscatory taxes as stealing, which is just laughable, so I changed your example into automotive gas to demonstrate the same point.


I only had one thing to say - i said it - and you've offered nothing to refute it. Changing the subject won't work with me. I don't play that.
I'm also bored - have a nice day.
 
2012-07-22 07:22:06 AM

Baryogenesis: USP .45: jso2897: The people we are talking about wish to stay, and enjoy the privileges of staying - just not to pay for it. Deadbeats.

which is nonsense because they still do pay more than most, especially those that pay nothing.

If I double my income overnight, and it's now twice that of my neighbor, how am I using the privileges of the United States to a higher degree?

They also have more than most especially those that have (next to) nothing.

Do not continue to labor under the delusion that taxes are some kind of usage fee and that it's only "fair" if you get out exactly what you put in. Your hypothetically doubled income puts you in a better position to help pay for the cost of civilization which we all enjoy and a dollar from you wallet hurts you less than a dollar from your neighbors wallet.


Of course it does, just don't call it a fair share. Please just say you're in favor of midget taxation, and price discrimination. To be consistent logically, you'd have to be.
 
2012-07-22 07:26:48 AM

Vertdang: Very simple, actually. You have more to lose, and therefore are enjoying more benefit from the military, police forces, and fire department. And that's just the protection services.

Let's assume that you doubled your income by opening a business. You therefore get more use out of the courts for contracts, negotiation, and enforcement of such for your business. You get more utility out of the highway system to move your goods, or from the FAA if you ship your goods by air. You also benefit more from the educational system by having employees that are educated enough to do the tasks you require completed, to continue earning your additional profit.

There are further examples, but I've got other things to get accomplished.


yep, if I doubled my income, with the same tax rate, I doubled my input into the system, which covers it, not to mention associated usage fees with those added services.

you did give a good reason for why midgets shouldn't be taxed more: they're smaller, have smaller things, and therefore have less to lose so don't benefit from the military as much as I do. Great reasoning.
 
2012-07-22 07:33:28 AM

jso2897: I only had one thing to say - i said it - and you've offered nothing to refute it.


It was a completely useless example and I took a dump on it. It's you that have failed to refute me.

Your example was not paying for a good or service because you don't like the price. Stealing. No one is making this argument. No one.

A good example would be not wanting to pay for extra gas taxes because of your income level, meaning paying more for the exact same product simply based on income, which is price discrimination. I'm almost certain that once currency is completely digitized the left with move forward with this type of policy. Hopefully they will be consistent and tax midgets too.
 
2012-07-22 07:35:19 AM
So this thread is basically just a weirdo ranting about taxing midgets?
 
2012-07-22 07:36:21 AM

Halli: So this thread is basically just a weirdo ranting about taxing midgets?


yeah you'd think someone could give me a really compelling reason not to by this point.
 
2012-07-22 07:39:07 AM

USP .45: Your example was not paying for a good or service because you don't like the price. Stealing. No one is making this argument. No one.


I believe that's pretty much the precise reasoning why all this estimated money is held offshore. So, people are making this argument, they're just doing it IRL instead on Fark.
 
2012-07-22 07:41:50 AM

USP .45: Baryogenesis: USP .45: jso2897: The people we are talking about wish to stay, and enjoy the privileges of staying - just not to pay for it. Deadbeats.

which is nonsense because they still do pay more than most, especially those that pay nothing.

If I double my income overnight, and it's now twice that of my neighbor, how am I using the privileges of the United States to a higher degree?

They also have more than most especially those that have (next to) nothing.

Do not continue to labor under the delusion that taxes are some kind of usage fee and that it's only "fair" if you get out exactly what you put in. Your hypothetically doubled income puts you in a better position to help pay for the cost of civilization which we all enjoy and a dollar from you wallet hurts you less than a dollar from your neighbors wallet.

Of course it does, just don't call it a fair share. Please just say you're in favor of midget taxation, and price discrimination. To be consistent logically, you'd have to be.


Taxes based on income are different than taxes based on genetics. You can't compare discrimination based on income and discrimination toward little people. And that's assuming your absurd hypothetical about their cost of living being cheaper is true. I doubt that it is.

Consumption taxes are different than income taxes. I just thought I'd point those things out for you.
 
2012-07-22 07:45:17 AM

Lsherm: The super rich people don't need tax breaks. The problem is that they just ship their money elsewhere to avoid paying taxes on it. If there's a way to keep them from doing that - hey I'm with you all the way. They aren't "job creators" they are "wealth hiders."


Thay are "wealth collectors" and "resource hoarders".
 
2012-07-22 07:46:08 AM

USP .45: jso2897: I only had one thing to say - i said it - and you've offered nothing to refute it.

It was a completely useless example and I took a dump on it. It's you that have failed to refute me.

Your example was not paying for a good or service because you don't like the price. Stealing. No one is making this argument. No one.

A good example would be not wanting to pay for extra gas taxes because of your income level, meaning paying more for the exact same product simply based on income, which is price discrimination. I'm almost certain that once currency is completely digitized the left with move forward with this type of policy. Hopefully they will be consistent and tax midgets too.


Perhaps - but none of that is apropos to what I am discussing. The issue of whether rich people's taxes are "too high" is not one I am discussing. If they think they are "too high" there are ethical things they can do about that - just as there are ethical things I can do if i think my gas bill is too high.I am discussing the ethics of not paying ones bills because one does not wish to for one reason or other. It is the only subject i was discussing - i am not discussing any other.
It seems like you have trouble with that concept - whenever any subject comes up that you have contentious feelings about, you launch into these long rants where you address all sorts of peripheral and unrelated issues that you emotionally associate with the subject - i am beginning to wonder if you are actually mentally focussed enough to discuss any actual issue in and of itself.
 
2012-07-22 07:48:20 AM

USP .45: Halli: So this thread is basically just a weirdo ranting about taxing midgets?

yeah you'd think someone could give me a really compelling reason not to by this point.


No your logic is airtight. You should tell Grover about it.
 
2012-07-22 07:50:44 AM
I'd just like to point out that this 32 trillion is GLOBAL not just US rich folk and corps.
That said they are leaches on society. Due to the relaxed way in which investments are
taxed there is NO incentive for them to start business's (IE create jobs). They just sit on those vast sums
and let them earn interest from banks or governments (through bonds or treasury notes).
Those then dole it out in small amounts, through loans to the plebes, at a higher interest rate.
This slowly over time concentrates more of the publics gross value into their hands. And mostly
they don't have to do anything except sign a few pieces of paper every year or pick up a phone
and tell the bank to shuffle the stuff around.
 
2012-07-22 07:51:09 AM

slayer199: Weaver95: And remember - suggesting we change the rules to prevent this sort of thing automatically makes you a socialist.

No, but when governments spend money irresponsibly and then want to raise taxes to pay for the debt, I can't blame people for moving money offshore.


OH PLEASE! Such a worthless statement. Our government spends the majority of it's money on 3 THINGS. Medicare / Medicaid, Social Security and the Military. Everything is barely a drop in the bucket. Are all three of those things irresponsible expenditures by your calculation? Get your head out of your ass. By all means, we should spend money wisely, but it is neigh impossible to do when your revenue streams are being systematically picked away by the rich and powerful.
 
2012-07-22 07:51:17 AM

Foxxinnia: So what I'm hearing is that every rich person is just like Scrooge McDuck.


Haha, of course not. Scrooge McDuck was honest, hard working, and hated cheats.

Plus he didn't hide his money. It was all right there in three cubic acres of gold coins in his Money Bin.
 
2012-07-22 07:55:43 AM

proteus_b: while of course they should be paying taxes on it like the rest of the 49-99 percentiles, isn't the implication of the headline, that it could ALL be "redistributed" a little bit unnerving?


Not even a little bit.

All that money will sit in a account until they die, then be handed off to worthless spoonfed heirs. There should be a hard cap on inheritance.
 
2012-07-22 07:57:33 AM

cman: Lsherm: cman: I dont know anything about personal wealth being hidden, but I do know that many companies are doing it. Apple, for example, has billions of dollars in cash just sitting there. Apple refuses to bring the money back home until the tax is lower. Their argument is that they were already taxed once by the country where they sold their goods, so they shouldnt have to pay more.

I am thinking that maybe a sliding scale might be the best way to approach this. Make it something like if you return the money to the states within one month of being handed it, you get taxed at a lower rate. The longer it stays over seas, the higher the tax rate goes.

That's...actually not a bad idea, except they can continue to use the money overseas. They would probably consider a rate of zero the line that would get them to bring the money back, and that's bullshiat.

Apple wants to bring the money back. Its just sitting there collecting dust. If they are investing in overseas projects, that is different, because the money is being spent to fuel the global economy. Apple sitting on this shiat hurts


I doubt it's collecting dust. Interest, perhaps, but not dust.
 
2012-07-22 07:57:46 AM
Oh, be quiet and have some
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-07-22 08:19:23 AM
Just a thought...

The US announces a crackdown and offers amnesty to anyone who brings their money home by x date.
Then the US asks the tax haven countries nicely for the names of Americans hiding their money there.
The alternative if they say no is to get aggressive. Govt destabilization, black ops, computer hacking. Arresting bankers from those countries if they go to the US for any reason. Payoffs to get the names. Whatever it takes to get the info.
Then the US is able to go after the dodgers legally.

/all this for 1 trillion less than it cost to invade Iraq.
 
2012-07-22 08:26:10 AM

slayer199: Weaver95: And remember - suggesting we change the rules to prevent this sort of thing automatically makes you a socialist.

No, but when governments spend money irresponsibly and then want to raise taxes to pay for the debt, I can't blame people for moving money offshore.


Yeah, that's why they do it. Because of volcano monitoring. They're just so goddamned principled. *eyeroll*
 
2012-07-22 08:27:46 AM
Let's just throw the rich in jail until they give us everything they own. I know that sounds drastic, so we'll start slow with Warren Buffet and Jeffrey Immelt and see how it goes.
 
2012-07-22 08:29:29 AM
Wealth is not income, they are two different things.

For one, we don't tax wealth, we tax income. If all that money was held by us citizens (which it wouldn't be, as many of the worlds super rich are foreign oligarchs) and was sitting in the US today the government wouldn't touch a dime of it. What we would tax is the capital gains from those assets. To do otherwise is to punish saving and investment, which would cause the financial system to collapse as it would also prevent banks from lending.

As the article pointed out:

Assuming that super-rich investors earn a relatively modest 3% a year on their $21tn, taxing that vast wall of money at 30% would generate a very useful $189bn a year - more than rich economies spend on aid to the rest of the world.

So we aren't talking about enough in additional income taxes to close the US deficit here. Assuming a third of these assets belong to US citizens, which is in line with the percent of global assets that we have, we are looking an extra $30 billion a year in taxes. Why $30b instead of $60b (a third of the stated $189b)? Because we tax capital gains at 15% not 30%. So we are looking at 2% of the US deficit (not budget, deficit).

Would it be nice to close that 2%? Sure. Are there far easier ways to find $30 billion? You betcha. For example, reforming the way Medicaid is funded would free up far more than that a year, easy, plus it would have significant benefits to the health of our citizens. And military spending is due for a nice haircut.

So this article is really more applicable for other countries than the US. For example, small African countries whose corrupt leadership is siphoning off large chunks of their tax revenue and hiding it abroad. Those assets shouldn't be taxed though, they should be seized and used for their intended purpose.
 
2012-07-22 08:33:09 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-22 08:34:28 AM
This just in - people don't like to pay taxes and will avoid it if possible.
Progressives have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last 200 years trying to change human nature because they just can't accept the fact that some people could possibly have an unfair advantage somehow. From the violent masturbatory fantasies I read on just about every Fark politics thread, there is a large portion of the population so filled with hate and envy that they can't wait for the next revolution to begin so they can slit some throats, hopefully of 'the rich', but it really doesn't matter.
Really, why does this surprise anyone? When the president comes out and demonizes you because you're rich, when he tells you flat out he's coming after your money because the government deserves it more than you do, and knows how to spend it more wisely, when he has shown from his record that his intent is to take your wealth and redistribute it to his union cronies and campaign contributors, and when he pours massive amounts of wealth down a black hole without any idea of what he is doing, of course people will try to hide their money from him
.
 
2012-07-22 08:36:59 AM

mark rathburn: This just in - people don't like to pay taxes and will avoid it if possible.
Progressives have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last 200 years trying to change human nature because they just can't accept the fact that some people could possibly have an unfair advantage somehow. From the violent masturbatory fantasies I read on just about every Fark politics thread, there is a large portion of the population so filled with hate and envy that they can't wait for the next revolution to begin so they can slit some throats, hopefully of 'the rich', but it really doesn't matter.
Really, why does this surprise anyone? When the president comes out and demonizes you because you're rich, when he tells you flat out he's coming after your money because the government deserves it more than you do, and knows how to spend it more wisely, when he has shown from his record that his intent is to take your wealth and redistribute it to his union cronies and campaign contributors, and when he pours massive amounts of wealth down a black hole without any idea of what he is doing, of course people will try to hide their money from him
.


Is there a StopArrestingMe-type theme here, or are you just another "new" idiot troll?
 
2012-07-22 08:43:57 AM

Tor_Eckman: mark rathburn: This just in - people don't like to pay taxes and will avoid it if possible.
Progressives have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last 200 years trying to change human nature because they just can't accept the fact that some people could possibly have an unfair advantage somehow. From the violent masturbatory fantasies I read on just about every Fark politics thread, there is a large portion of the population so filled with hate and envy that they can't wait for the next revolution to begin so they can slit some throats, hopefully of 'the rich', but it really doesn't matter.
Really, why does this surprise anyone? When the president comes out and demonizes you because you're rich, when he tells you flat out he's coming after your money because the government deserves it more than you do, and knows how to spend it more wisely, when he has shown from his record that his intent is to take your wealth and redistribute it to his union cronies and campaign contributors, and when he pours massive amounts of wealth down a black hole without any idea of what he is doing, of course people will try to hide their money from him
.

Is there a StopArrestingMe-type theme here, or are you just another "new" idiot troll?


Is there a point you're trying to make, or shall I just assume you're an ass?
 
2012-07-22 08:47:22 AM

mark rathburn: When the president comes out and demonizes you because you're rich, when he tells you flat out he's coming after your money because the government deserves it more than you do, and knows how to spend it more wisely, when he has shown from his record that his intent is to take your wealth and redistribute it to his union cronies and campaign contributors, and when he pours massive amounts of wealth down a black hole without any idea of what he is doing, of course people will try to hide their money from him
.


Federal Tax code is set by?
A) The President
B) Congress
 
2012-07-22 08:51:32 AM

mark rathburn: Tor_Eckman: mark rathburn: This just in - people don't like to pay taxes and will avoid it if possible.
Progressives have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last 200 years trying to change human nature because they just can't accept the fact that some people could possibly have an unfair advantage somehow. From the violent masturbatory fantasies I read on just about every Fark politics thread, there is a large portion of the population so filled with hate and envy that they can't wait for the next revolution to begin so they can slit some throats, hopefully of 'the rich', but it really doesn't matter.
Really, why does this surprise anyone? When the president comes out and demonizes you because you're rich, when he tells you flat out he's coming after your money because the government deserves it more than you do, and knows how to spend it more wisely, when he has shown from his record that his intent is to take your wealth and redistribute it to his union cronies and campaign contributors, and when he pours massive amounts of wealth down a black hole without any idea of what he is doing, of course people will try to hide their money from him
.

Is there a StopArrestingMe-type theme here, or are you just another "new" idiot troll?

Is there a point you're trying to make, or shall I just assume you're an ass?


Your screed is so full of ridiculous right-wing, Fox News, Glen Beck, Obama Derangement Syndrome talking points that I thought it was most certainly some sort of parody.

It appears I was in error.
 
2012-07-22 08:55:36 AM
Okay, so we can't tax all that stuff, but here's something I've never understood.

If you have $10 billion in cash just sitting in bank accounts somewhere, WHY?

I'm pretty sure I could live beyond comfortably and not have to brush elbows with society's riffraff like me with only a measly $1 billion in my bank account. Why not do something...anything...productive and good with that money?

Bill Gates has given away more money than most of us would see in 100 lifetimes. I applaud that.

But too many of these people are so concerned about proving they have a bigger bank account than someone else, it's just sickening.
 
2012-07-22 08:59:25 AM

Tor_Eckman: mark rathburn: Tor_Eckman: mark rathburn: This just in - people don't like to pay taxes and will avoid it if possible.
Progressives have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last 200 years trying to change human nature because they just can't accept the fact that some people could possibly have an unfair advantage somehow. From the violent masturbatory fantasies I read on just about every Fark politics thread, there is a large portion of the population so filled with hate and envy that they can't wait for the next revolution to begin so they can slit some throats, hopefully of 'the rich', but it really doesn't matter.
Really, why does this surprise anyone? When the president comes out and demonizes you because you're rich, when he tells you flat out he's coming after your money because the government deserves it more than you do, and knows how to spend it more wisely, when he has shown from his record that his intent is to take your wealth and redistribute it to his union cronies and campaign contributors, and when he pours massive amounts of wealth down a black hole without any idea of what he is doing, of course people will try to hide their money from him
.

Is there a StopArrestingMe-type theme here, or are you just another "new" idiot troll?

Is there a point you're trying to make, or shall I just assume you're an ass?

Your screed is so full of ridiculous right-wing, Fox News, Glen Beck, Obama Derangement Syndrome talking points that I thought it was most certainly some sort of parody.

It appears I was in error.


What part do you disagree with - that progressives have killed millions last century? That Obama has rewarded his union cronies with tax money? That a large portion of Farkers write about their violent fantasies against the rich? Or that people don't like to pay taxes?
 
2012-07-22 09:00:00 AM

Dog Welder: Okay, so we can't tax all that stuff, but here's something I've never understood.

If you have $10 billion in cash just sitting in bank accounts somewhere, WHY?

I'm pretty sure I could live beyond comfortably and not have to brush elbows with society's riffraff like me with only a measly $1 billion in my bank account. Why not do something...anything...productive and good with that money?

Bill Gates has given away more money than most of us would see in 100 lifetimes. I applaud that.

But too many of these people are so concerned about proving they have a bigger bank account than someone else, it's just sickening.


no, i think if they were proving anything they'd have a lot less, because of expenditures, tax dodging fines, etc.
 
2012-07-22 09:05:48 AM
mark rathburn:

i52.tinypic.com


And you were off to such a great start.
 
2012-07-22 09:09:23 AM
Obama should send in Seal-Team-Six to bring that money back to the US
 
2012-07-22 09:09:48 AM
Waiting...
 
2012-07-22 09:10:10 AM
the figures from Singapore take the wind of the argument that "lowering tax rates would reduce abuse of the tax system"

Singapore's taxes are just 20% at the top bracket for income, 17% for corporates. these rates are not effective, but before deductions.

the cash sitting offshore is $196 billion, or 80% of GDP.

it does help the argument that the super-rich are assholes though.
 
2012-07-22 09:14:11 AM

starsrift: mark rathburn: When the president comes out and demonizes you because you're rich, when he tells you flat out he's coming after your money because the government deserves it more than you do, and knows how to spend it more wisely, when he has shown from his record that his intent is to take your wealth and redistribute it to his union cronies and campaign contributors, and when he pours massive amounts of wealth down a black hole without any idea of what he is doing, of course people will try to hide their money from him
.

Federal Tax code is set by?
A) The President
B) Congress


mark rathburn: Waiting...

 
2012-07-22 09:14:34 AM

mark rathburn:

What part do you disagree with - that progressives have killed millions last century? That Obama has rewarded his union cronies with tax money? That a large portion of Farkers write about their violent fantasies against the rich? Or that people don't like to pay taxes?


Really? So you're saying that things done by progressives in this country have directly attributed to the deaths of millions? I'm sure you have more evidence than your fevered imagination, right? Or are you somehow equating authoritarians around the world as being your evil 'progressives'? I'm sure in your addled mind, you equate authoritarian governments (like the former Soviet Union) as being composed of your imaginary 'progressives', right?

If so, you may want to start actually reading up on governmental theory and how each form of governing is not like the other, no matter what the right wing noise machine tells you.
 
2012-07-22 09:15:06 AM

Dog Welder: Okay, so we can't tax all that stuff, but here's something I've never understood.

If you have $10 billion in cash just sitting in bank accounts somewhere, WHY?

I'm pretty sure I could live beyond comfortably and not have to brush elbows with society's riffraff like me with only a measly $1 billion in my bank account. Why not do something...anything...productive and good with that money?

Bill Gates has given away more money than most of us would see in 100 lifetimes. I applaud that.

But too many of these people are so concerned about proving they have a bigger bank account than someone else, it's just sickening.


Wealthy people become wealthy by spending less than they earn.

Imagine you are making a nice salary, more than you need. You have one eye on retirement, so you use all the excess to buy into the BPT trust, which returns ~ 10% a year in dividends. Eventually you get to the point that you are getting more in yearly dividend checks than you are in income.

Let's say you stop working at that point (although you probably don't because you like to work). But you weren't spending all your income before, and you aren't spending your dividends now, especially since your income was taxed at 33% but your dividends are taxed at 15%. So your trust keeps growing.

Could you start giving that money away? Sure, but here's the thing, although you don't need it now you might need it later. No need to be hasty right? So it's better to keep it while you are alive and then give it away when you die. And when you die, you might choose to give your wealth to family members instead of strangers, because, well, they are family.

And knowing how irresponsible young ones can be, you set up those assets in a trust, so they can only draw income from the trust at a slower rate than the trust grows, and the cycle continues.
 
2012-07-22 09:15:15 AM
 
2012-07-22 09:18:26 AM
So if they brought it back all the that money (yeah right) the governments would get taxes on 32 trillion. If they are lucky that would mean 7 trillion bucks (though probably MUCH less). This would of course be only one time. The deficits and bailouts would eat that all up and leave utterly nothing for Africa. (Not that they would give any to Africa if there was a surplus.) Meanwhile the countries which which sheltered the money would go into immediate catastrophic depression that will destroy the lives of millions and whose effects would probably hurt the First World too especially if it results in wars.

Okay, the hiding of so much money to avoid taxes is wrong. And the tax codes need to change to slow down future hiding. But to think this is an easy way to bailout the U.S., E.U., with enough put Africa on its feet is nothing less than magical thinking.
 
2012-07-22 09:23:16 AM

AurizenDarkstar: mark rathburn:

What part do you disagree with - that progressives have killed millions last century? That Obama has rewarded his union cronies with tax money? That a large portion of Farkers write about their violent fantasies against the rich? Or that people don't like to pay taxes?

Really? So you're saying that things done by progressives in this country have directly attributed to the deaths of AurizenDarkstar: mark rathburn:

What part do you disagree with - that progressives have killed millions last century? That Obama has rewarded his union cronies with tax money? That a large portion of Farkers write about their violent fantasies against the rich? Or that people don't like to pay taxes?

Really? So you're saying that things done by progressives in this country have directly attributed to the deaths of millions? I'm sure you have more evidence than your fevered imagination, right? Or are you somehow equating authoritarians around the world as being your evil 'progressives'? I'm sure in your addled mind, you equate authoritarian governments (like the former Soviet Union) as being composed of your imaginary 'progressives', right?

If so, you may want to start actually reading up on governmental theory and how each form of governing is not like the other, no matter what the right wing noise machine tells you.

millions? I'm sure you have more evidence than your fevered imagination, right? Or are you somehow equating authoritarians around the world as being your evil 'progressives'? I'm sure in your addled mind, you equate authoritarian governments (like the former Soviet Union) as being composed of your imaginary 'progressives', right?

If so, you may want to start actually reading up on governmental theory and how each form of governing is not like the other, no matter what the right wing noise machine tells you.


No, I am saying the progressive ideology was behind the worst atrocities of the last century - see China, The Soviet Union, Korea and Cambodia. And that many Farkers seem to want to bring back those halcyon days.
 
2012-07-22 09:25:01 AM

TheMysteriousStranger: So if they brought it back all the that money (yeah right) the governments would get taxes on 32 trillion. If they are lucky that would mean 7 trillion bucks (though probably MUCH less). This would of course be only one time. The deficits and bailouts would eat that all up and leave utterly nothing for Africa. (Not that they would give any to Africa if there was a surplus.) Meanwhile the countries which which sheltered the money would go into immediate catastrophic depression that will destroy the lives of millions and whose effects would probably hurt the First World too especially if it results in wars.

Okay, the hiding of so much money to avoid taxes is wrong. And the tax codes need to change to slow down future hiding. But to think this is an easy way to bailout the U.S., E.U., with enough put Africa on its feet is nothing less than magical thinking.


as Singapore shows, having a tax code heavily biased to rich people and corporates still leads to amazing levels of tax evasion.

you know what stops offshoring of cash? strict capital controls. that's why China's figures are the lowest in the developing world.
 
2012-07-22 09:25:06 AM

mark rathburn: Waiting...


And you will for a while, Mark. They're waiting for the fax from DNC HQ to tell them how to respond.
 
2012-07-22 09:25:08 AM
If only there were some multi-billion dollar wealth source that physically couldn't transfer anywhere. It would be something you stand on, build on . . .
 
2012-07-22 09:25:39 AM

AurizenDarkstar: Really? So you're saying that things done by progressives in this country have directly attributed to the deaths of millions? I'm sure you have more evidence than your fevered imagination, right? Or are you somehow equating authoritarians around the world as being your evil 'progressives'? I'm sure in your addled mind, you equate authoritarian governments (like the former Soviet Union) as being composed of your imaginary 'progressives', right?


If "progressives" are the antithesis of "regressives," I'm not sure why the concept of progress is so threatening to some people who have obviously never benefited from regression.
 
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