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(Daily Mail)   United Airlines: We'll stop a disabled veteran from bringing his service animal on board in violation of federal law, kick the dog and injure it, and then ask the veteran if he's retarded   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 67
    More: Stupid, United Airlines, get to the point, Airlines staff, veterans, federal law, stripes, Jim Stanek, airlines  
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26802 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jul 2012 at 1:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-07-22 01:41:54 AM
9 votes:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.


You're farking moron.
2012-07-22 01:44:06 AM
6 votes:
I work in animal rescue and constantly hear stories that make me ask "what the hell is wrong with some people?" But seriously, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH SOME PEOPLE?!?!?!?!?

A passenger is confused about flight changes, explain it. That's your job. People have issues, travelers are often sleep-deprived and aren't thinking entirely straight. I was once in line behind a woman who couldn't seem to understand the difference between her passport and her boarding pass. The airline people were very nice and helped her out. She was nice back and explained that she'd been traveling for 23 hours. That sounds pretty normal for a frigging airport.

And do NOT kick the dog, a-hole. You don't like dogs, just stay away from them. You work in an airport, people have service dogs. This should not be news to you.
2012-07-22 01:44:22 AM
5 votes:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.


It's not "a dog", it's a farking service animal. An animal that has been specifically trained to be on an airplane and not "piss right in the aisle". What the fark is wrong with you?
2012-07-22 01:39:06 AM
5 votes:
United breaks guitars, hates veterans and kicks dogs....
2012-07-22 01:50:29 AM
4 votes:

consider this: Jument: You can make that argument about most places that service dogs are allowed, such as malls and restaurants.

A dog might be in a store or restaurant for an hour or so tops before being able to go outside to relieve itself. A flight can last as long as 18 hours. Huge farking difference there.


That makes kicking the dog twice and asking derogatory questions totally OK!

Consider this: you may be an idiot.
2012-07-22 01:50:14 AM
4 votes:

consider this: dlp211: It's not "a dog", it's a farking service animal. An animal that has been specifically trained to be on an airplane and not "piss right in the aisle". What the fark is wrong with you?

So a trained animal is able to hold back, no matter how long the flight is? That's just a flat out ignorant comment you made.


No it isn't. I have flown with dogs before on 18 hour flights, GA -> Afghanistan and back with no incident. Dogs can hold back for an amazing amount of time, they don't feel the same way we do when they have to go.

Also, most flights aren't even close to 18 hours.
2012-07-22 01:49:52 AM
4 votes:
consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.

Did you come into this thread with the express purpose of showing FARK how much of an complete idiot you really are?

If so, bravo man. I applaud you.
2012-07-22 08:38:50 AM
3 votes:

sanitybleeds: Given the fact he only seems to list PTSD as his disability, it seems a bit unlikely he has a "service animal", more likely just an emotional support animal, or as they are often regarded, a pet for someone with an emotional impairment that has no specific training at all.

Secondly, most airport agents don't tend to move around alot from their podium while working a flight, especially one thats delayed, so the fact his dog was anywhere near enough to the agents for them to allegedly kick it tells me he would probably have to be in the wrong place, or allowed his dog to be.

Maybe its because I'm an airline worker, or maybe its because this coming from the Daily Fail, but I pretty much regard this story as a load of crap.


He lists Post Traumatic Stress Disorder AND Traumatic Brain Injury as the reasons why he has the service dog. Mr. Stanek flew from Albuquerque to Knoxville, TN on July 13th for a conference. On this flight, apparently the suitcase he had packed his medication in was lost by the airline.

His first attempt to get home was on July 15. His 6:55 PM flight from Dulles to Albuquerque was first delayed, then cancelled. The airline provided him taxi and hotel vouchers for the inconvenience. On July 16th, his dog was kicked by a person wearing a United Airlines uniform while he was on a shuttle to the terminal. That flight was cancelled and he again sought out Customer Service for vouchers; at first, he was informed by an employee in a United Airlines uniform that he was not eligible for hotel and taxi vouchers. Mr. Stanek started to question this decision by the customer service agent, when the agent asked him if he was retarded. After a few choice words hurled at that CSA, Mr. Stanek went to another customer service desk and they provided him vouchers. He was booked onto a morning flight on July 17, a flight that was once again delayed. United booked him on an evening flight, then 15 minutes later, two United employees came over to him, booked him a flight on a different airline, and finally got him home.

(additional information from Reduced Mobility Rights)

Obviously, the only ground transport available was taxi or shuttle to the airport from the hotel. Mr. Stanek had packed food for his service dog, but no one could have accounted for two extra days in the airport and hotel. For those who are thinking "Well, why not get more food for the dog at a local store", it's not that easy: any sudden change in food can cause serious digestive issues and diarrhea for the dog. In my travels, one thing I have never seen for sale in a hotel store or at the airport is dog food. I have, in the past, transported an animal on an airline: After 6 hours, the first thing the cat wanted was the litter box, followed immediately by dinner.

United knows they screwed up in this case: The Department of Transportation is now investigating and United has stated "We are reaching out to the customer directly to discuss the events that he described".
2012-07-22 08:33:12 AM
3 votes:
Service animals for people suffering from PTSD are amazing. They allow them not just to get on planes (it sucks for everyone. Imagine if your brain is telling you you will die if you go visit Mom in Miami or to see your new niece in Topeka) but they can go around a corner first and sit if the coast is clear or signal if someone is coming the other way. They can be trained to provide pressure to the chest which has been shown to significantly reduce the severity and duration of a panic attack. Just knowing you have a partner who will help is enough to stave off the attack in the first place.

Judging people with PTSD is horrible. You have to be a right arsehole to do that.

Kicking a service animal (or any animal) is downright disgusting.

Airline personnel are notorious for not knowing the law under ADA. Tips I have seen are to contact the airline ahead of time and to do a dry run before the actual flight. The TSA has been particularly bad. Asking to remove the dog's service equipment (not allowed,) asking to see "proof" that the dog is a service animal (also not allowed, but smart owner's travel with a letter from their doctor and from the dog's veterinarian showing that the animal is healthy,) and asking the owner what disability he or she has (very much not allowed.) There have also been problems with the dogs working alongside LE at airports attacking service dogs.

There is no protection for "therapy" animals, i.e. animals who do not assist their owners in specific ways.

A dog can wait as long as 24 hours before needing to void depending on the last time it ate and drank. Dogs don't sweat much and can go without water much longer than we can. Service dogs usually are not given anything to eat or drink for 8 hours or so before a flight. The last thing a responsible owner will do before boarding is find a place at the airport for their companion to do its business.

There is no special training or certification process for a service dog although there are many organizations that train dogs to perform specific tasks such as bracing, guiding, alerting, or the multiple tasks PTSD sufferers might need. They also train the dogs to lie down and ignore everything when they are not actively working.

Service animals may be denied access if they are obviously not under the control of their owner or display any aggression or are destructive.

This story just sucks.
2012-07-22 03:03:40 AM
3 votes:

cptjeff: The ADA. Service animals have to be accommodated, period.


comma. Unless it is unreasonable to do so. For example, if the dog had become rabid, then a reasonable person with ostensible authority in the situation could reasonably conclude that the animal:

1. Was not under the direct control of his handler.
2. Posed a direct threat.

The fact of the matter is that there is already hundreds of examples in existing case law that demonstrate that "period" is not correct. Other examples include cases where:

A. The dog on a continuing basis destroys common property.
B. The presence of the dog makes it so the unit cannot fulfill its mission. For example, a dog would not be allowed on "Dog Allergy Sufferers Symptom Alleviation Airlines".

And there are many others, like multiple animals. You couldn't REASONABLY argue that you have multiple service animals all with different performance tasks and have the airline be forced to allow you to bring on 60 dogs.

In short, you are a tard. You would be less of a tard if you would simply spend the couple of hundred hours it would take you to catch yourself up on even rudimentary, dare I say, remedial ADA knowledge.

/30 years as an ADA and Fair Housing Act attorney
2012-07-22 01:37:16 AM
3 votes:
He misunderstood the retarded comment, they were just trying to see if he was interested in employment at Dulles.
2012-07-21 10:51:02 PM
3 votes:
He does seem kind of off in the video, but I'm sure my first reaction when meeting someone who might be mentally challenged has never been to ask them "Are you farking retarded?"
2012-07-22 02:21:12 AM
2 votes:
consider this: So your point is that a trained service animal is able to hold their bladder and bowel longer than other housebroken animals? Are you even listening to what your saying?

I did? This was your claim:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid.I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.

Service animals can be trained to set on the pot. We have a EMT in our ER who has a service dog who does just that because of her epilepsy.

The point is it doesn't matter. Under ADA, the Airline has to make accommidations for the service dog. At any rate, they injured the farking dog.
2012-07-22 02:10:07 AM
2 votes:

consider this: Gyrfalcon: A dog can totally hold its bowels for 10-12 hours if it's that or pee in its bed, you stupid sack of shiat!

Hey fark nuts, I guess you missed the part about flights lasting up to 18 hours.


The flight the guy was getting on was about an hour and a half long.

One might assume... that the guy would be smart enough to realize that he can't take his dog on an 18 hour international flight?
2012-07-22 01:59:37 AM
2 votes:

dlp211: consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.

It's not "a dog", it's a farking service animal. An animal that has been specifically trained to be on an airplane and not "piss right in the aisle". What the fark is wrong with you?


He's retarded.

Guess nobody understands why you crate-train a dog, right?

[imagine yelling]

A dog can totally hold its bowels for 10-12 hours if it's that or pee in its bed, you stupid sack of shiat!

[/end yelling]
2012-07-22 01:52:24 AM
2 votes:

consider this: dlp211: My dog has gone 24 hours plus without going to the bathroom. My dogs get walked twice a day. I haven't had an accident since they were puppies. Dogs will not piss or shiat where they sleep or think they will be sleeping.

Funny since I've had countless friends of mine biatch about that time they got home to find out their dog had pissed or shiat in the house. Dogs are good for about 8 hours before you have to start worrying about them going.


I'm gonna call bullshiat on this. If their dogs are having accidents it is because they are not well trained and not house broken
2012-07-22 01:47:37 AM
2 votes:

consider this: Jument: You can make that argument about most places that service dogs are allowed, such as malls and restaurants.

A dog might be in a store or restaurant for an hour or so tops before being able to go outside to relieve itself. A flight can last as long as 18 hours. Huge farking difference there.


My dog has gone 24 hours plus without going to the bathroom. My dogs get walked twice a day. I haven't had an accident since they were puppies. Dogs will not piss or shiat where they sleep or think they will be sleeping.
2012-07-22 01:45:19 AM
2 votes:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.


Blind people, gimps, and the elderly with service dogs not allowed! Screw em right? They shouldn't have gotten into a situation where they needed that dog anyway. Sub-human scum they are!
2012-07-22 01:43:19 AM
2 votes:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.


You can make that argument about most places that service dogs are allowed, such as malls and restaurants.

Generally they don't. They're trained not to and as I understand it, the training works pretty well. I've flown with cats a couple of times (in the cabin) and they don't void during flight either. I assume because they're too freaking terrified.
2012-07-22 01:30:38 AM
2 votes:
'It's as if she has PTSD from the situation and i cant blame her after all that we'd been through.'

Maybe he should get a service dog for his service dog then?

/I'm sorry, it's not a funny situation
2012-07-22 01:29:35 AM
2 votes:
diaphoresis: Airline employees being jerks? Not suprised.

Kicking service animal: Suprised.

This is why I carry a taser everywhere....


You carry a taser at an airport? You must enjoy being fisted by the TSA, then. I hear they gotta check real deep for them turrirst bombs.
2012-07-22 01:26:09 AM
2 votes:
Airports have cameras. If this happened in the way he describes, there should be at least some proof.
2012-07-22 12:17:24 AM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Lsherm: He does seem kind of off in the video, but I'm sure my first reaction when meeting someone who might be mentally challenged has never been to ask them "Are you farking retarded?"

Well, unless you're in a politics thread


Meh - that's internet life. In real life, have you ever run into a person who is off? Have you ever thought to yourself, "I'm going to ask this person if he's farking retarded?" Is that even a normal response? If you think someone is off, you work with it, you don't try to agitate the person.
2012-07-23 01:33:18 PM
1 votes:
How sad that this thread evolved into an argument about how long a dog can keep its business and calling into question the legitimacy of this gentleman's PTSD, his service dog and behavior.

While it doesn't matter at all in this case, a lot of service dogs are trained to go on command and they can 'keep it in' for many hours. Whether they can keep it for 18 or 24 hours doesn't even matter. In general service dogs will not 'piss and shiat' in the aisle, no matter if they are in a store, restaurant or on an airplane.

There are no federal requirements for service dogs, so the level of training from one service dog to another can differ significantly. Someone posted that dogs that flunk their training from organisation A might be used as a service dog in organisation B. Could be, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. A dog might not be fit to be a guide dog for the blind for many reasons, but it could still work as a service dog in another capacity. Doesn't make it a bad dog, maybe it just can't guide a blind person in a straight line, but it can still offer other services to a seeing person. Most organisations do not offer their non-graduates to other programs, often the dogs are offered for adoption to the puppy raisers. Some organisations breed dogs for their programs, others allow personal pets to be trained if they meet the organisation's requirements. Even if you personally think it is BS, service dogs of all kinds have rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act (actually, their handlers have rights that extend to the service animals). This is not subject to opinion, so it doesn't really matter if you think a particular service dog should be allowed in public places or not. There are able people that abuse rights given by the ADA and buy/make a service vest for their pet and take this untrained animal everywhere, often messing up things and making things harder for true service dogs.

Back to the gentleman in question here. So he lost his cool at some point. Almost anyone would have gotten upset and maybe verbally abusive. But to question whether he truly has PTSD and suggesting his dog attacked people is just plain trolling. So he didn't rebook on another airline (might have not have enough funds to abandon his paid-for flight and pay for a brand new one, when refund is not guaranteed), he didn't call for help feeding his dog (you can't just find the correct food anywhere - most service dogs are on a strict diet and if you change that, there might be accidents) or contact an organisation to help him. Think about why he has that service dog in the first place: he has traumatic brain injury and PTSD, which can affect his ability to apply himself properly in high-stress situations. Give the guy a break! Did he make up the whole incident? Considering his situation as founder of Paws and Stripes and that he is not asking for any money from anybody, not suing the airline, makes me say 'highly unlikely'.

*Not an expert about service dogs, but as a puppy raiser for Guide Dogs of America I do have some experience with service dogs, and because I have an interest in the matter, I've read up on other kinds of service dogs (including PTSD/vet service dogs) a lot.
2012-07-23 05:30:37 AM
1 votes:

consider this: dlp211: Yes, because they are

No, no they're not. There's no magical procedure for training service animals that makes them able to hold it longer than a non-service animal that has also been trained to be house broken.


As others have noted:

a) Working dogs can, and are, routinely trained to "hold it" for extended periods of time, certainly the amount of time any domestic flight in the US would take. (Again, in this case I'm not even just talking service dogs anymore--the K-9 unit at the police station which has had formal Schutzhund training and the search-and-rescue dogs used by your local Civil Defense Disaster and Emergency Services Homeland Security emergency SAR division are also taught to "hold it".)

b) As has been stated, repeatedly, ad nauseum--practically all legitimate service-dog training programs train the dogs to never eliminate indoors and to only eliminate when their owner gives the "go potty" command as an integral part of service dog training. (Of note, this would also seem to include the program his dog is a part of.)

c) If for some reason a service-dog-recruitee (in a legit service-dog training program) doesn't manage to master not eliminating until the owner gives the "go potty" command...IT DOESN'T GET TO BE A SERVICE DOG AT THAT POINT. It might be kept as a companion animal by the trainer or adopted out as a companion animal at that point, but it certainly doesn't get to be a working dog.

(And yes, service dogs can and do get "flunked out" for stuff a lot less noticeable than not being able to hold it until its owner tells it to go potty. If a service animal shows any signs of distractability from task at all, for instance, it gets flunked to "companion animal" status. Usually a service dog that is "flunked out" of a particular kind of service work is generally flunked out of all service work--they don't shuttle a failed guide dog to the Hearing Ear dog training program.)

So yes, service dogs are better at this, and they CAN hold it better than someone whose dog has (at best) had "Canine Good Citizen" training down at the local PetSmart--because they are explicitly trained to do so, and in fact are disqualified from BEING a service dog if they CAN'T. :D

(Seriously, people have no earthly goddamn idea just how rigorous the training is for legitimate service animals. There are flunked-out ex-service-dogs-in-training who can be wonderful companion animals, and even can be trained to earn championship obedience titles--and yet they still flunk out as service dogs because it's that much more exacting and is probably the most demanding work we expect dogs to do on a regular basis. Compared to service-dog work, K-9 police work and even herding are easy in comparison.)
2012-07-23 05:10:22 AM
1 votes:

consider this: davemchine: You sound like a very knowledgeable dog owner and I don't want to disagree with you at all. I would still suggest buying the black light though. I thought my last dog was well trained until I did so. Then I found out one room of my house had become the "pee room" unknown to me. I try to have my carpets cleaned professionally fairly often which may account for why I didn't notice the aroma, or maybe I just got used to it slowly, I don't know.

You're obviously a bad pet owner. Had you properly trained your dog, it would go days without having to relieve itself and when it did, it would remember to put the seat down and flush.


You're cute. *pat pat*

In all seriousness, though (at risk of feeding the troll, probably a bad idea before taking the troll on a flight as they can be prone to keyboard incontinence):

a) As people who have actually worked with service animals have noted, dogs actually can hold it for fairly long periods of time. (BTW, whomever posted re "relieve on command" stuff for Hearing Ear assistance dogs--thanks for the confirmation on that; I'm mostly familiar with the process for training guide dogs for the visually impaired as far as assistance dogs go.)

b) As not only myself but others have noted, at least guide dogs and Hearing Ear dogs (and possibly "alert dogs" and neurological-assistance dogs as well, at least with the newer and more rigorous training programs) are--like many types of working dogs--actually trained to "relieve on command"--that is, they're actually given "housebreaking-plus" training in that not only are they taught not to eliminate inside but are explicitly housebroken to "hold it" until the owner gives a specific "go potty" command.

c) Training for working dogs in general is quite a bit more rigorous than even "good canine citizen" training, and dogs are taught to do many complex tasks (I'm even going beyond service dogs here and noting other types of working dogs including herding dogs and the various types of working dogs used in search-and-rescue ops). I will also note that out of various types of "work" for working dogs, work as a service dog for persons with disabilities is probably among the most challenging; even for "alert dog" and psychiatric-support dog training, there's still quite a lot that "flunk out" and end up adopted as pets, and training as a guide dog or Hearing Ear dog results in probably as many potential "recruits" ending up as well-trained companion animals because they didn't quite "make the grade" to be a full-blown service animal.

(Seriously, it is difficult to underestimate the level of training that service dogs get. It's extremely intensive, IMHO even beyond some of the extensive training that AKC and UKC obedience and working champions undertake...and seeing an actual trained working dog in action is nothing short of amazing. I'm not shocked at all that these pups get taught to poop on command; these are pretty darn smart dogs to keep all of this info in their head!)

d) Interestingly enough, airplanes are one of the few transport situations which would not involve a service animal having to hold it for a good long time--there would actually be a greater likelihood with train travel, bus travel, and car/RV travel than plane travel.

This is because (as myself and others have noted) most domestic flights are generally a maximum of six to eight hours and often are as short as two to four hours between hops and layovers, thus allowing time for "relief breaks" for a service animal; any flight involving more than about eight hours between layovers would be an international flight, which (for many reasons, largely involving vaccination papers, the equivalent of "immigration papers", and lengthy quarantine periods for landing in many rabies-free countries) is not practical to take a service-animal along with and is often prohibited by service-animal sponsoring groups.

e) It's my understanding that this particular fellow had a dog that could be considered either an "alert dog" (warning its owner of things like an oncoming seizure or insulin shock or the like) or a psychiatric-support dog (of the type that tend to especially be notable as service dogs for people with autism). As he has TBE and PTSD it's entirely possible the dog may be serving both functions.

Whilst psychiatric-support dogs probably have the worst "reputation" as far as service dogs go (partly because formal training of psych-support dogs is fairly new, and partly because the concept has been abused a lot by people taking untrained pets to areas and claiming they are psych-support service animals) it would appear the guy is in charge of an actual legitimate training and homing group for psych-support dogs for persons with PTSD, which--if he's following the same general protocols as are used for training of guide dogs, Hearing Ear dogs, and alert dogs--are going to have the same levels of rigorous training (above and beyond the usual "Canine Good Citizen" stuff) that one expects for guide dogs, and probably an equivalent "flunk-out" rate (possibly even higher as these ARE psych-support dogs and an even temperament is a must for this particular category of service animal, even more so than most).

In other words, you're probably dealing with one of the notable cases of a well trained psych-support service animal, and not one that's going to be leaving dog-logs in the cabin (certainly not in an hour-long flight).
2012-07-22 03:06:20 PM
1 votes:

consider this: dlp211: Wow. I never said that. You seem to be confusing, again, two different scenarios, being a good pet owner vs having trained pets. Having trained pets doesn't make you a good pet owner and being a good pet owner does not mean you have trained pets.


You've implied that a service animal is somehow better trained than any other housebroken dog.


Yes, because they are, because they have been trained, by people who know how to train dogs. Again, training a dog and being a good pet owner are not the same thing. Most pet owners train their dogs to be moderately house broken, let them be led by the dog on the lead, allow them onto the furniture, etc etc. This doesn't make them bad pet owners, just bad dog trainers. There is a reason that dog obedience schools exist.
2012-07-22 02:35:57 PM
1 votes:

davemchine: You sound like a very knowledgeable dog owner and I don't want to disagree with you at all. I would still suggest buying the black light though. I thought my last dog was well trained until I did so. Then I found out one room of my house had become the "pee room" unknown to me. I try to have my carpets cleaned professionally fairly often which may account for why I didn't notice the aroma, or maybe I just got used to it slowly, I don't know.


Thanks, I don't have carpets, I would know pretty quickly if they were 'messing' in the apartment. Also, my step dad would have let me know if he smelled dog piss when he came over. He is extremely sensitive to smells, and will not sit in a place that smells like piss.
2012-07-22 12:20:01 PM
1 votes:

Desmo: We're missing part of the story here, something doesn't sound right. Mr.Stanek said a United employee turned around and was "startled" by his dog, so they kicked it. The next day a different United employee turned around and was "startled" by his dog, so they kicked it.

What are the odds of that happening? I have never seen or heard before of anyone being startled by a dog that's just sitting. And startled so much that the fight or flight instinct takes over and they kick the dog? Is it as simple as Mr. Stanek encountering 2 animal hating United employees?

It looks like most people in this thread are simply piling-on and trashing United. Seems very unlikely this is company policy, and with all due respect, it seems very unlikely that these events transpired as Mr. Stanek claims they have.

Is it possible he's actually imagining this hostility toward his dog?


Here's the thing. I've flown with United enough to know that if a United employee thought they could get away with it, they'd kick me and my girlfriend. They'd like to serve my dog to passengers, except that would be actual meat and would set a precedent for a level of service that they could never sustain, so they'd probably just kill it for nothing.

I'm surprised that his dog was kicked twice, but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if it was kicked once. United is a horrible, horrible airline.
2012-07-22 12:13:10 PM
1 votes:

consider this: dlp211: properly trained dogs can hold it for a very long time(in excess of 24 hours)

That's not true at all.


Yes it is, you constantly repeating "That's not true at all." doesn't make it not true. You seem to be confusing wanting to go to the bathroom with having to go to the bathroom.

I have owned dogs my entire life, once my dogs were house broken I have never had an accident in the house or car except when they were sick which was maybe a couple of times per dog over the life of the dog. My dogs once they are old enough and are through their "chew" stage are allowed basically free roam of the house and have at times been left in the house for over 24 hours without going. This is obviously not the normal thing for them, but neither are 18 hour flights for service dogs.

I have also been on 18 hour international flights with military service dogs. They didn't go to the bathroom in flight despite flying with them multiple times. Now this isn't to say that there isn't an upper limit to how long a dog can hold it, but with proper training and handling of any dog of a decent size, they will make it to 24 hours no problem.

Stop making shiat up and go troll somewhere else.
2012-07-22 12:00:20 PM
1 votes:
I was waiting for the train one night here in Chicago (the night that the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup) and there was a blind man with his seeing eye dog also waiting for the train about 10 yards down the platform. As the train was pulling into the station some inebriated gentleman walking by poked the dog near its tail, causing the dog to jump and almost hit the still moving train. Laughing with his buddies, the gentleman kept walking, heading past me. I loudly said to the woman next to me, "Wrigley Field is over there!" and as I said it I quickly swung around to point to Wrigley Field and I had a very unfortunate accident. Not wanting to poke someone in the eye with my finger my arm was bent as I turned around and my elbow hit this guy right in the face, and with some force, laying him out flat on his back. I yelled a polite apology and got on the train (I did not want to miss the train). As the doors shut I saw the guy's buddies propping him up and saw that the guy's nose was bleeding profusely from his nose. I really should have stayed and given them my name and phone number and reported the accident to the police. Unfortunately I was distracted by the cute woman who I gave directions to. She had not actually asked me for directions, but she had seen the guy goose the dog and was really concerned about the accident and inquired as to whether or not I had hurt my arm. I really hope that the gentleman was alright, because violence is wrong.
2012-07-22 11:43:07 AM
1 votes:

consider this: intelligent comment below: Stop posting

Just stop posting

Your foot is going deeper and deeper


I think you weren't paying attention to what I posted. I said that there are no restrictions placed on service dogs in regards to flights over a certain number of hours.


And...........? As has been pointed out by me, properly trained dogs can hold it for a very long time(in excess of 24 hours), and by others, many service dogs have been trained to go on command only. There are also other things that can be done for the dog, such as diapers and WeeWee pads as well as being trained to use a lavatory.
2012-07-22 11:19:43 AM
1 votes:
You guys act like dog poo is some sort of toxic substance that kills on contact. Human passengers do much more disgusting things on airplanes on a regular basis.
2012-07-22 11:11:13 AM
1 votes:

consider this:

I guess it's easier to ignore somebody than it is to admit that you can't answer the question they asked. The fact is, there are no rules saying that service animals are only allowed on certain flights.



Stop posting

Just stop posting

Your foot is going deeper and deeper

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_pets/cabin_pets/

The Department of Transportation (DOT) has rules (14 CFR part 382) (PDF) that require airlines to allow passengers to fly with their service animals in the cabin on all U.S. airlines. Service animals are not pets. They are working animals that assist persons with disabilities. There is no limit to the number of service animals that can be on any flight. Service animals do not need any health certificates to travel and they do not need to be confined in a container or cage.
2012-07-22 09:08:10 AM
1 votes:
I had a hearing ear dog for 11 years. When we got him, they warned us that he was coming from a different type of house (lived in an open-kennel like area) and might need a bit to adjust to being potty trained inside. He peed in the house once, pooped once (my fault) - and then nothing after that, even when I was gone 8+ hours. He was never on a plane, but he was on a couple of really long RV trips - sometimes Dad wouldn't stop to get gas/food/etc for twelve hours, so he had to hold it at least that long. While I'm sure he was probably relieved to be able to get out and pee, he never LEAPED out the door and peed like a fire hose, you know? During our training, they had us teach him to go to the bathroom on command, which leads to...

Another poster mentioned that any flight that takes upward of 12 hours (as in, on-plane time) is not likely to be one that a person with a service dog would undertake without serious consideration and planning. There have been cases of people getting on planes and then being stuck on the plane for an extended period of time on the ground, but even then, they don't stretch that long without people getting pissed and making them let everyone off. For a true 18 hour flight the solution is simple enough. Take the dog to the bathroom, put down a pee pad or some paper toweling, tell the dog to go. Pick up the result, dispose of it in the toilet or in a bin if they have one for dirty diapers. Solved! (It's a bit more complicated if the person is blind, but it's possible.)
2012-07-22 08:42:04 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Searching the internet, the general consensus is that dogs need to be let out 3 to 4 times a day to do their business. But hey, since this is Fark, we have a bunch of super dogs that can hold it in for 3 weeks at a time.


General consensus is also that dogs need heated shelters if they're to be kept outside and it's going to get below 40F. Reality is that 'dog' encompasses a variety of breeds - a Chihuahua might well need shelter at 60, while Alaskan Mamalutes might just sleep in a pile at -30 vs apart, and not use the shelter until -50.

Letting a dog go 3 times a day is easier on it. Plus, most service animals are in the prime of their life - just like people, both younger and older dogs are going to have to go more often, on average. Also, there's a big difference between a dog having to go to the bathroom and wanting to. During walks you'd think my parent's dogs need to go every 30 seconds. Of course, they're just looking to mark territory. Meanwhile they're good for 10 hours inside the house unless they're sick or pissed(yes, animals have moods). Service animals are generally in the top 1%, selected for health and attitude.

18 hour flights are rare, but can be handled by having the dog go just before the flight, withholding food/water for a period before the flight(so there's less to come out anyways), etc... Of course, you should talk with your vet before taking ANY animal on a flight.
2012-07-22 08:02:30 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.


Will you please just die of aids? Will someone with aids just stick their dick in his face and get him started on that?
2012-07-22 07:20:23 AM
1 votes:

consider this: BronyMedic: Did you come into this thread with the express purpose of showing FARK how much of an complete idiot you really are?

If so, bravo man. I applaud you.


Do you have an actual point to make? Can you provide citations that dogs are able to hold it for up to 18 hours? Oh wait, you're just some moron who insults people when they can't make a rational argument.


Like was said above, most flights aren't nearly 18hrs. When we were trained to use our service dog, we were told to feed the dog lightly before the flight. Then, it is treats and water during the flight but she'd most likely be sleeping.

/Can't fly even with a service dog
//Autism
2012-07-22 06:01:33 AM
1 votes:

consider this: dlp211: It's not "a dog", it's a farking service animal. An animal that has been specifically trained to be on an airplane and not "piss right in the aisle". What the fark is wrong with you?

So a trained animal is able to hold back, no matter how long the flight is? That's just a flat out ignorant comment you made.


Dude - when you find yourself this desperate for attention, you need to put down the mouse and go out and make some friends or something.
2012-07-22 05:24:57 AM
1 votes:
Given the fact he only seems to list PTSD as his disability, it seems a bit unlikely he has a "service animal", more likely just an emotional support animal, or as they are often regarded, a pet for someone with an emotional impairment that has no specific training at all.

Secondly, most airport agents don't tend to move around alot from their podium while working a flight, especially one thats delayed, so the fact his dog was anywhere near enough to the agents for them to allegedly kick it tells me he would probably have to be in the wrong place, or allowed his dog to be.

Maybe its because I'm an airline worker, or maybe its because this coming from the Daily Fail, but I pretty much regard this story as a load of crap.
2012-07-22 04:59:18 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: consider this: Gyrfalcon: He's retarded.

Guess nobody understands why you crate-train a dog, right?

Oh so now the dog is in a crate. Keep moving those goalposts.

Gyrfalcon: A dog can totally hold its bowels for 10-12 hours if it's that or pee in its bed, you stupid sack of shiat!

Hey fark nuts, I guess you missed the part about flights lasting up to 18 hours.

I missed the part where THIS GUY'S flight was going to last 18 hours, douchebag.


Also, as a minor note:

Pretty much the only destinations I can honestly think of where someone would fly to and:

a) would be over twelve hours in duration of flight
b) would not involve a quarantine for all arriving animals (including service animals) of at least six months from areas where rabies is known to exist
c) would not involve a layover in a part of the world where b) applies

involve destinations to Russia, China or South America (and that would be something like a direct flight to Moscow or to somewhere in Chile or Argentina or Brazil)--pretty much all of the other major layover ports of call outside of Latin America or Russia (or potentially France) are in quarantine zones.

Hawaii? Quarantine zone. Japan? Quarantine zone even though rabies hasn't been entirely eliminated. Anything involving transfer through Heathrow or anywhere in Oz or New Zealand? YOU BET YOUR ARSE QUARANTINE ZONE.

And this is just for going into rabies-free zones, even if your dog has had its shots.

If you're going into France, it's not a quarantine zone as long as your critter has had its shots, but you will need to get it microchipped first (and this is the case for pretty much all of Europe anymore). In a lot of European countries, it's questionable whether service animals that have had "cosmetic" surgery (like tail docking or ear trimming) are allowable because of laws prohibiting surgeries deemed to be cruel.

Most countries (yes, even Canada) won't let a service animal in at all without documentation from a vet (which often has to be notarised, translated, and apostilled, depending on the country) that the animal in question has had all of its necessary shots and that it's not carrying any known diseases of concern in that country.

We haven't even gotten into the fact that service animal laws in other countries are not the same as in the US, and quite a few parts of the world don't really have laws at all exempting service animals from "no pets" rules...and often if they do, it requires the service animal to be certified by a group recognised in that country...and there's no guarantee there's reciprocal recognition from a US guide dog training and certification group...

Suffice it to say that--in general--the mere act of transporting a service animal to an area that would require a twelve-hour flight with no layover (which is going to be, by default, either Hawaii or international destinations) is sufficiently a PITA that in general people are not going to attempt it unless they plan on permanently moving to some other part of the world--doubly so if (like most twelve-hour-plus sans-layover flights) they're going to be flying to a rabies-free zone where they will have a mandatory six-month separation. Quite often, in fact, service dog associations will prohibit people from taking service dogs overseas for this explicit reason (the laws re importing and exporting dogs being complex and many countries having mandatory quarantines that do not exempt service animals) and operate rescue associations for people who must give up their service animals due to moves.

(Of note--I knew someone from Australia who had Jack Russell terriers who he took with him to the US (he had a job offer that unfortunately fell through)--the act of re-importing his pups was so problematic (even though they were originally from Australia and had been in the US less than three months) that he ultimately rehomed them through a Jack Russell terrier rescue group as that was pretty much the only option that wouldn't involve at least six months of separation with the dogs being housed in cages with little human contact. For a service dog with strict training, this could actually be much worse.)

In general, most domestic flights in the US are from 1-8 hours, often in practice being more like 1-4 hours with a layover in a third city along the way--well within the bladder and bowel capacity of a guide dog for the visually impaired or a "Hearing Ear" dog, and generally in most major airports they WILL allow disembarking during layovers for "relief breaks" for service animals (and often have a specific "potty area" for service animals at that!). As others have noted, there are also solutions in those rare cases where a service animal may be on a form of transportation for over twelve hours without a chance at a "relief break".

(In this guy's case--as others have noted--his flight was definitely on the short end of things, which would have even been manageable by an "alert dog" or "psychiatric support dog" without the sort of Advanced Housebreaking 301 that guide dogs have.)
2012-07-22 04:57:49 AM
1 votes:

orbister: Is there any evidence that the man in question has been professionally diagnosed as disabled and that the dog is a genuine service dog, or is he just a foul mouth on a hair trigger with a poorly trained dog he likes to keep with him? It does sound from the article as if the dog may have attacked (sorry, "surprised") airline staff twice and he admits a verbal outburst. It may be that the airline staff have a very different recollection of the events.


Guess you missed the part where he's a veteran with PTSD (which is a disability) and that the dog is a service dog, one of many his organization makes available for veterans with PTSD.
2012-07-22 04:33:52 AM
1 votes:
target="_blank">geek_mars: consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.

9/10
Well done. Not only did you get a lot of bites, you've managed to turn the thread from a discussion about how an airline treated a disabled vet into an argument with you about what a service dog's evacuation control capabilities are. That's some damn fine trolling. Bravo!


He's not trolling. He's just retarded. I always find it funny that the Weeners to hearing the most moronic comment someone could possibly make about something is "he must be trolling," as this sentiment severely underestimates the amount of DERP in America. Consider This is simply a loud mouthbreathing retard that likes to hear himself being heard. Nothing more. Nothing less. He is simply stupid. Very very stupid. He's not a clever troll, he's just one of those 20 million Americans that we should simply euthanize, and hopefully we will. Someday soon.
2012-07-22 04:33:15 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Gyrfalcon: He's retarded.

Guess nobody understands why you crate-train a dog, right?

Oh so now the dog is in a crate. Keep moving those goalposts.

Gyrfalcon: A dog can totally hold its bowels for 10-12 hours if it's that or pee in its bed, you stupid sack of shiat!

Hey fark nuts, I guess you missed the part about flights lasting up to 18 hours.


I missed the part where THIS GUY'S flight was going to last 18 hours, douchebag.
2012-07-22 03:13:23 AM
1 votes:

Bomb Head Mohammed: Dont have time to read TFA. Is this another one where because some "military veteran" is involved that therefore there is an expectation that rules do not apply to him and we are to assume that everything he says is true and that we should be grateful to him for Making Us Free (tm) and Allowing Douchebags like Me To Have Free Speech (tm)?


No, this is one where an asshole employee violated the ADA, kicked a service dog, and the person dicked over happened to be a disabled vet.
2012-07-22 03:11:12 AM
1 votes:

consider this: gadian: No, that was addressed. You're just a stupid sack of shiat that doesn't know anything about potty training service dogs or any other dog for that matter.

Service dogs are not better trained than any other housebroken dog you farking ignorant asshole. It's farking amazing that you're so goddamn stupid that you think that a service animal is able to hold it any longer than any other trained dog.


Actually...in this specific respect--at least for service dogs for the visually impaired--they are in fact "better trained"; guide dogs are specifically trained to not only hold it for upwards of twelve hours or more at a time, but are also trained very specifically to relieve themselves on command and often only on command; yes, guide dogs will hold it until given the "go potty" command by their guide-ee.

(I will note, as an aside, I'm speaking primarily re training programs for guide dogs for the visually impaired; training programs for other assistance dogs (such as "hearing ear" dogs, "alert" dogs for such things as difficult-to-control diabetes and neurological disorders, and "psychiatric support" dogs for PTSD) are new enough in comparison to guide dog programs that I cannot safely say that training is as rigorous; there might be similar "potty training" for "hearing ear" dogs, but for "alert" and "psychiatric support" dogs the legitimate training programs can be said to still be in establishment.)
2012-07-22 03:07:45 AM
1 votes:

Mega Steve: consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.

Nice trolling, "new guy", but if you really want to get the pot stirring, throw in something like "Welcome to Obama's America."


To settle this argument, there is a spot set aside in the baggage area of the plane where animals can go to the bathroom. So everyone can stop feeding the retarded troll.

//My dog holds his bladder 12+ hours all the time. In fact, I often have to force him go out.
//don't believe me? TS, it's the truth.
2012-07-22 02:26:25 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.


9/10
Well done. Not only did you get a lot of bites, you've managed to turn the thread from a discussion about how an airline treated a disabled vet into an argument with you about what a service dog's evacuation control capabilities are. That's some damn fine trolling. Bravo!
2012-07-22 02:25:31 AM
1 votes:

cptjeff: ElLoco: consider this: That's not true at all.

Citation?

The ADA. Service animals have to be accommodated, period.


I'm aware of that. It's still the responsibility of the owner to insure that they can work within the accommodations, though. I can't take a service animal and let them shiat on the floor of an aircraft and expect to call it accommodation.

Long-trip service animals are typically trained to shiat in a diaper, which is then handled in a similar manner to a baby's diaper.

It's a moot point for this guy's issue anyway. The trip was about 450 miles or so... probably a buck 30 flight time.
2012-07-22 02:24:07 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Jument: You can make that argument about most places that service dogs are allowed, such as malls and restaurants.

A dog might be in a store or restaurant for an hour or so tops before being able to go outside to relieve itself. A flight can last as long as 18 hours. Huge farking difference there.


The only non-stop 18 hour flight I can think of would be the one going from LAX to Singapore. Most people covered by the ADA would, I guess, fly domestically in the US, where the longest flight is no longer than the average full time work day. Now the whole trip may be 18 hours, but in the US it's not 18 continuous hours in a plane. If a dog can hold it long enough for his owners to come home from work, he can prob hold it long enough for any domestic flight.
2012-07-22 02:22:03 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Allowing a person to take a dog

child or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.

FTFY

/Looks like I'll be flying Spirit Air before I use USAir again...
2012-07-22 02:20:13 AM
1 votes:

ElLoco: consider this: That's not true at all.

Citation?


The ADA. Service animals have to be accommodated, period.
2012-07-22 02:19:17 AM
1 votes:

404 page not found: Login: consider this (Want to sponsor this Farker for TotalFark?) (What's TotalFark?)
Fark account number: 796879
Account created: 2012-07-01 15:59:56
Submitted links approved: None
Name: Rick Y
Location: USA



I noticed that. I just figured him for a angsty teenage Fark alt that wanted to troll.

He's not very good at it. :(
2012-07-22 02:07:25 AM
1 votes:
To be fair to United, the policy is clearly printed on their boarding passes.

i47.tinypic.com
2012-07-22 02:07:08 AM
1 votes:
www.humansfordogs.com
/Old and Busted

barenakedislam.com

/New and Hotness!
2012-07-22 02:03:14 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Hey fark nuts, I guess you missed the part about flights lasting up to 18 hours.


No, that was addressed. You're just a stupid sack of shiat that doesn't know anything about potty training service dogs or any other dog for that matter.
2012-07-22 02:00:56 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Searching the internet, the general consensus is that dogs need to be let out 3 to 4 times a day to do their business. But hey, since this is Fark, we have a bunch of super dogs that can hold it in for 3 weeks at a time.


Dogs can do incredible things when properly trained.

/the end
//g'night!
2012-07-22 02:00:12 AM
1 votes:

consider this: Searching the internet, the general consensus is that dogs need to be let out 3 to 4 times a day to do their business. But hey, since this is Fark, we have a bunch of super dogs that can hold it in for 3 weeks at a time.


It has to be right because it is on the internet. Not every dog is the same, but big dogs, which service dogs are, can typically hold it for a long time. Also, it is recommended that you let your dog out 3-4 times a day, but reality is that most people take their dogs out twice a day and never have any problems.

I have never met a dog that couldn't hold it for the majority of the day.
2012-07-22 01:56:06 AM
1 votes:
Searching the internet, the general consensus is that dogs need to be let out 3 to 4 times a day to do their business. But hey, since this is Fark, we have a bunch of super dogs that can hold it in for 3 weeks at a time.
2012-07-22 01:52:23 AM
1 votes:

cptjeff: TheMega: Chabash: Airports have cameras. If this happened in the way he describes, there should be at least some proof.

That's why files can be erased.... I mean "LOST"

No no, this isn't an accusation against the TSA.


It is funny that anytime something goes wrong, there is always an apology that something went wrong with the video or for an unexplained reason the video cameras were off that day. I can't remember the last time there was a working video camera when a negative situation arises (that was not handheld by a different passenger).

/not really funny
//bias is I'm just comparing fark articles
2012-07-22 01:50:16 AM
1 votes:
3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-07-22 01:40:00 AM
1 votes:
Allowing a person to take a dog or any other animal on a flight is farking stupid. I guess it's cool if they shiat and piss right in the aisle.
2012-07-22 01:39:30 AM
1 votes:

TheMega: Chabash: Airports have cameras. If this happened in the way he describes, there should be at least some proof.

That's why files can be erased.... I mean "LOST"


No no, this isn't an accusation against the TSA.
2012-07-22 01:38:52 AM
1 votes:
Subby: "kick the dog and injuring it"

English isn't your first language, is it?
2012-07-22 01:35:29 AM
1 votes:

Chabash: Airports have cameras. If this happened in the way he describes, there should be at least some proof.


That's why files can be erased.... I mean "LOST"
2012-07-22 01:32:33 AM
1 votes:

Chabash: Airports have cameras. If this happened in the way he describes, there should be at least some proof.


Yup, likely to be used as evidence in the inevitable lawsuit the guy brings against the airline.
2012-07-22 01:29:23 AM
1 votes:
Well? Is he retarded?
 
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