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(Popular Archaeology)   Archaeologists determine Neanderthals had huge right arms due to "scraping hides", not thrusting. Next up: Why they live in cave-like basements   (popular-archaeology.com) divider line 28
    More: Interesting, archaeologists, Nuestra Senora, asymmetry, Maya Research Program, World Heritage, Neanderthals  
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1970 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Jul 2012 at 10:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-21 07:53:26 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-21 08:36:10 AM  
Expected Quagmire but bonus points for first.

/and wonders if there were any left handed Neanderthals?
 
2012-07-21 10:09:21 AM  
I'll be in my cave
 
2012-07-21 10:41:36 AM  

sno man: wonders if there were any left handed Neanderthals?


came to say this. Whole theory falls down if neanderthals were left handed....
 
2012-07-21 10:54:51 AM  
FTFA: "While hunting was important to Neandertals, our research suggests that much of their time was spent performing other tasks, such as preparing the skins of large animals. If we are right, it changes our picture of the daily activities of Neandertals."

Are these researchers idiots, or merely proving the painfully obvious in some sort of academic version of crossing T's and dotting I's? In any case, these two sentences make them look like simpletons. Hunting, no matter how many hours a day it might take, is not a highly asymmetrical upper body activity. Conversely, in the main Neanderthals lived in much colder climates that Europe typically experiences these days ('cuz, ya know...they changed the climate by burning dried dung and sticks...but I digress), so devoting a high percentage of non-hunting, non-food preparation time to preparing clothing to survive the weather is stupefyingly obvious.
 
2012-07-21 10:59:32 AM  
Then, on the gripping hand...
 
2012-07-21 11:13:09 AM  

SwiftFox: Then, on the gripping hand...


Could it be... Moties?

/wishes that would get made into a film.
 
2012-07-21 11:43:47 AM  

StoneColdAtheist: Are these researchers idiots, or merely proving the painfully obvious in some sort of academic version of crossing T's and dotting I's? In any case, these two sentences make them look like simpletons. Hunting, no matter how many hours a day it might take, is not a highly asymmetrical upper body activity.


Before getting all "I'm smarter than dumb scientists" you might want to read the PLoS paper: Neanderthal Humeri May Reflect Adaptation to Scraping Tasks, but Not Spear Thrusting from which the brief summary you read was derived. There you will find that Neanderthal skeletal asymmetry has been often attributed to spear thrusting much like the asymmetry of modern tennis players is attributed to ball hitting.

I feel the earlier view may be attributed to a general male chauvinism in archeology where what males do is the most important. While it is true in most mammals that males are bigger and stronger than females because they fight each other, and having big strong fighters is good for humans because they make good hunters, too much emphasis is placed on the male acts of hunting and fighting.

One thing the authors were unable to address was the correlation between asymmetry and gender. It would be funny if what was thought to be a manly trait was actually feminine.
"Among the Aleut of Alaska and the Tchotchke of Siberia, most hide-processing tasks are performed by females [65], [66]. Humeral bilateral strength asymmetry appears much lower in Neandertal females compared to males [17], [67], and may reflect a sexual division of labour. However, due to the dearth of paired humeri attributable to female Neandertals, the attribution of differences in sex-specific bi-manual task specialization between Neandertals and H. sapiens remains speculative."



'
 
2012-07-21 11:45:45 AM  

Party Boy: [i.imgur.com image 478x354]


Screw you, man.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-21 11:49:24 AM  

StoneColdAtheist: FTFA: "While hunting was important to Neandertals, our research suggests that much of their time was spent performing other tasks, such as preparing the skins of large animals. If we are right, it changes our picture of the daily activities of Neandertals."

Are these researchers idiots, or merely proving the painfully obvious in some sort of academic version of crossing T's and dotting I's? In any case, these two sentences make them look like simpletons. Hunting, no matter how many hours a day it might take, is not a highly asymmetrical upper body activity. Conversely, in the main Neanderthals lived in much colder climates that Europe typically experiences these days ('cuz, ya know...they changed the climate by burning dried dung and sticks...but I digress), so devoting a high percentage of non-hunting, non-food preparation time to preparing clothing to survive the weather is stupefyingly obvious.


No. They had a lot of free time which they spent beating off. Get with the program.
 
2012-07-21 11:52:08 AM  
I seem to recall reading somewhere how the enthusiasm with which England embraced the longbow resulted in similar asymmetry in the musculature of soldiers.
 
2012-07-21 11:58:30 AM  

HairBolus: asymmetry appears much lower in Neandertal females compared to males [17], [67], and may reflect a sexual division of labour. However, due to the dearth of paired humeri attributable to female Neandertals, the attribution of differences in sex-specific bi-manual task specialization between Neandertals and H. sapiens remains speculative.


I meant to add also that there may also be a big problem with the existing sexual classification of partial Neanderthal skeletons. If everybody "knew" that asymmetry was caused by male weapon use then a pair of arm bones could be classified as male just because they were asymmetric.
 
2012-07-21 12:02:28 PM  
I'll be in my bunk 'scraping hides'
 
2012-07-21 12:06:37 PM  

dready zim: sno man: wonders if there were any left handed Neanderthals?

came to say this. Whole theory falls down if neanderthals were left handed....


Seems to me I read an article claiming that Neanderthals were predominantly left handed, based upon scrape marks on their teeth. Apparently, at least historically, Aleut and Eskimo people would hold a piece of meat or blubber in their teeth and saw off that chunk, causing scrapes on the teeth. Modern humans are primarily right handed. Similar marks were found on Neanderthal teeth, except from the other direction, leading the researcher to conclude that they were mostly left handed.
 
2012-07-21 12:15:35 PM  
www.kazeo.com

THE NEANDERTHAL COMMUNITY FROWNS ON YOUR SHENANIGANS!
 
2012-07-21 01:26:39 PM  
Not left-handed.

media.comicvine.com
 
2012-07-21 01:36:16 PM  

StoneColdAtheist: FTFA: "While hunting was important to Neandertals, our research suggests that much of their time was spent performing other tasks, such as preparing the skins of large animals. If we are right, it changes our picture of the daily activities of Neandertals."

Are these researchers idiots, or merely proving the painfully obvious in some sort of academic version of crossing T's and dotting I's? In any case, these two sentences make them look like simpletons. Hunting, no matter how many hours a day it might take, is not a highly asymmetrical upper body activity. Conversely, in the main Neanderthals lived in much colder climates that Europe typically experiences these days ('cuz, ya know...they changed the climate by burning dried dung and sticks...but I digress), so devoting a high percentage of non-hunting, non-food preparation time to preparing clothing to survive the weather is stupefyingly obvious.


You hit on the answer yourself. Very little of science work is like it's portrayed in the media. Much of it is painfully boring, and consists of exactly what you said - crossing t's and dotting i's - testing to see if the painfully obvious is really true - because every once in a great while, it turns out not to be.
 
2012-07-21 01:42:44 PM  

jso2897: StoneColdAtheist: FTFA: "While hunting was important to Neandertals, our research suggests that much of their time was spent performing other tasks, such as preparing the skins of large animals. If we are right, it changes our picture of the daily activities of Neandertals."

Are these researchers idiots, or merely proving the painfully obvious in some sort of academic version of crossing T's and dotting I's? In any case, these two sentences make them look like simpletons. Hunting, no matter how many hours a day it might take, is not a highly asymmetrical upper body activity. Conversely, in the main Neanderthals lived in much colder climates that Europe typically experiences these days ('cuz, ya know...they changed the climate by burning dried dung and sticks...but I digress), so devoting a high percentage of non-hunting, non-food preparation time to preparing clothing to survive the weather is stupefyingly obvious.

You hit on the answer yourself. Very little of science work is like it's portrayed in the media. Much of it is painfully boring, and consists of exactly what you said - crossing t's and dotting i's - testing to see if the painfully obvious is really true - because every once in a great while, it turns out not to be.


Thank you...I was trusting that someone would get it. Can I give you my month of TotalFark? I waste too much time here as it is... :)
 
2012-07-21 02:31:52 PM  
I'm scraping my hide all the time. It's weird, though, cause I'm right-handed, but I scrape that hide with my left hand. If I use my right hand, it feels like I'm being violated by a stranger. Only can scrape with the left hand.
 
2012-07-21 03:06:50 PM  

sno man: Expected Quagmire but bonus points for first.

/and wonders if there were any left handed Neanderthals?


There were probably some, but studies of stone tool-sharpening show right handedness was the majority. (The angle at which a rock produces "flakes" indicates the direction from which it was struck.) There are also some studies of tooth wear that indicate right handedness.

If you're interested, Natalie Uomini wrote a very thorough article about it in Conrad and Richter's (2011) Neanderthal Lifeways, Subsistence and Technology. (Warning, .pdf).
 
2012-07-21 03:11:22 PM  

casual disregard: I'm scraping my hide all the time. It's weird, though, cause I'm right-handed, but I scrape that hide with my left hand. If I use my right hand, it feels like I'm being violated by a stranger. Only can scrape with the left hand.


You could get some lotion.
 
2012-07-21 06:45:42 PM  

offmymeds: [www.kazeo.com image 550x333]

THE NEANDERTHAL COMMUNITY FROWNS ON YOUR SHENANIGANS!


I have the weirdest boner right now....

/not really
 
2012-07-21 08:26:25 PM  
I am sick of this revisionist history. Neanderthals had huge right arms from riding T-rex's and worshiping satan. They died out from god fearing ti-ceratops riding humans.
 
2012-07-21 10:12:38 PM  
I can curl 5 lbs more with my right arm than my left.

/no idea why....
 
2012-07-21 11:58:52 PM  
Yes, but can scientist tells us why they continue to vote against their own self interests?
 
2012-07-22 12:30:29 AM  

bk3k: Yes, but can scientist tells us why they continue to vote against their own self interests?


coin?
/what do I win?
 
2012-07-22 06:55:59 AM  

bk3k: Yes, but can scientist tells us why they continue to vote against their own self interests?


Over in 23.
 
2012-07-22 07:42:15 AM  

bookelly: bk3k: Yes, but can scientist tells us why they continue to vote against their own self interests?

Over in 23.


Your modern grammar and syntax, they frighten and confuse me
 
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