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(Onion AV Club)   With all these comic book characters being gay, at least Captain Marvel's still a completely straight woman da-HUHHH?   (avclub.com) divider line 72
    More: Weird, Marvel Comics, darwyn cooke, Silver Age, Batgirl, Geoff Johns, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, color palette  
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9543 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 21 Jul 2012 at 5:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-21 12:23:14 AM  
Captain Marvel has been a woman at various points since the 1980s.

www.captainmarvelculture.com

i.newsarama.com

And, the new female Captain Marvel, according to this article, is just Ms. Marvel, who was nothing more than the female version of the Mar-Vell Captain Marvel in the first place, much like She-Hulk was created as a female Hulk.

images.wikia.com
 
2012-07-21 01:17:28 AM  
SHA-ZAM!
 
2012-07-21 01:18:08 AM  
Shazayum!
i.ytimg.com
 
2012-07-21 01:25:05 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: much like She-Hulk was created as a female Hulk.


I'm bored, so here's what She-Hulk may look like wearing Rainbow Brite stockings... (SFW-ish IMHO, but I've been timeout'd for posting the original)

/bored
 
2012-07-21 01:42:58 AM  
I love it when the mainstream media is way behind old comic book news like this.

/nerd pride
//small victories
 
2012-07-21 05:41:42 AM  

DeltaPunch: FirstNationalBastard: much like She-Hulk was created as a female Hulk.

I'm bored, so here's what She-Hulk may look like wearing Rainbow Brite stockings... (SFW-ish IMHO, but I've been timeout'd for posting the original)

/bored


There were socks in that picture...?
 
2012-07-21 07:40:37 AM  
This one has nothing to do with Shazam. This is Marvel's version and now they're the only one that uses the name. DC's started calling their Captain Marvel - the original, Billy Batson, with the magic word - just Shazam because "that's what everyone thought his name was anyway".

/Also, welcome to several months ago
 
2012-07-21 07:44:06 AM  

Shadowtag: This one has nothing to do with Shazam. This is Marvel's version and now they're the only one that uses the name. DC's started calling their Captain Marvel - the original, Billy Batson, with the magic word - just Shazam because "that's what everyone thought his name was anyway".


That's going to make introductions tricky:
"Hi, my name is Shazam!"
BOOM!!!
"Ah, crap!"
 
2012-07-21 07:52:33 AM  
The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?
 
2012-07-21 08:06:40 AM  

SevenizGud: The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?


It's on the same level of maturity as someone who uses 'gay' as an adjective for something other than someone's orientation.
 
2012-07-21 08:22:03 AM  
Carol Danvers had a long time relationship with the Mar-Vell, the original Captain Marvel from Marvel comics, and is in part why she ended up with super powers herself.
Her origin is one of the more convoluted ones.
/marvelous
 
2012-07-21 08:33:30 AM  

Kurmudgeon: Carol Danvers had a long time relationship with the Mar-Vell, the original Captain Marvel from Marvel comics, and is in part why she ended up with super powers herself.
Her origin is one of the more convoluted ones.
/marvelous


Ahh, so it was an STD?

/Hates when that happens
 
2012-07-21 08:35:33 AM  

czetie: Shadowtag: This one has nothing to do with Shazam. This is Marvel's version and now they're the only one that uses the name. DC's started calling their Captain Marvel - the original, Billy Batson, with the magic word - just Shazam because "that's what everyone thought his name was anyway".

That's going to make introductions tricky:
"Hi, my name is Shazam!"
BOOM!!!
"Ah, crap!"


With everything else they're changing lately, they can fix that in one word bubble.
 
2012-07-21 08:42:10 AM  

SevenizGud: The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?


You're right, we should definitely have more adult conversations at Fark.com. What were we thinking?

The Pushcart War was neither a War, nor involved Pushcarts: Discuss.
 
2012-07-21 08:54:27 AM  
Good for her. She's been called Ms. Marvel for decades even after Captain Marvel's been dead.
Hope it's successful.
 
2012-07-21 09:05:37 AM  

tomWright: Ahh, so it was an STD?>
images3.wikia.nocookie.net

Cosmic cooties.

 
2012-07-21 09:29:33 AM  
I missed the part where it said Carol was no longer straight.

//She totally wants Spider-man.
 
2012-07-21 09:42:11 AM  
I thought it was a pretty strong first issue. And I really want Marvel comics to have a solo title with a female character succeed. Marvel has a few such strong characters: She-Hulk, Spider-Woman and Captain (Ms.) Marvel, each of which really is a take-off on a previously established male character that have diverged over time to the point that they really are completely distinct. But these books never last, and I think the comics world is poorer for it.

A few years ago, a dear friend of mine got up at a con panel and asked Joe Quesada about Marvel's treatment of female characters. This was during Marvel's so-called "Year of the Woman." My friend was actually shouted down by the audience at the con, made fun of by several members of the panel (Marvel employees) and trade press reporting on the event actually described her as a "Harpy" for daring to ask if Marvel had any editorial plans to present more female characters as more than sexual objects.

Anyway, comic book publishers don't treat female characters the way that they should. It's frustrating and I'm glad to see that this is a book that's being written by someone with more feminist sensibilities. I really hope it succeeds.

I should also point out that as bad as Marvel is, "Women in Refrigerators" is more of a DC thing.
 
2012-07-21 09:56:55 AM  

shivashakti: Good for her. She's been called Ms. Marvel for decades even after Captain Marvel's been dead.
Hope it's successful.


It was a really good first issue. I hadn't read anything with Carol Danvers in it before, but I feel like I know the character after only a few pages. Very well written, the art takes some getting used to but I like it. The only downside is that there's no hook in #1. It's a pretty self-contained story, you get to know who the character is but not where her story is going. I'll be checking out #2.
 
2012-07-21 10:20:34 AM  
Why is she getting demoted from colonel to captain? Also, Squirrel Girl.
 
2012-07-21 10:27:30 AM  

likefunbutnot: Anyway, comic book publishers don't treat female characters the way that they should. It's frustrating and I'm glad to see that this is a book that's being written by someone with more feminist sensibilities. I really hope it succeeds.


If it succeeds that's dependant on society and the people that tend to buy the things, aka, the target demographic.

Same way candy, mostly, is designed to be sweet tasting. It is done so because that IS what sells, vomit flavor, not so much.

Your view of how female characters "should" be treated is a bit of a stretch if you want to sound reasonable.

I mean, seriously, you are on about how a fictional CHARACTER should be written, in order for some personal ideal of fantasy utpoia to be realized.

How is your "should" any better than the alpha male's docile mate and their desire to see that in media?

Do you really want to make the argument that your idea should be expressed over what other differing people want to see? Sounds like a different flavor of the pot calling the kettle black to me.

Comic books, like anything else, are a business, they do what sells, be it controversial, cornfed bs, or cater to liberal rights extremists like you. If it doesn't sell well, you can't blame anyone but people like you shooting for the wrong demographic.
 
2012-07-21 10:45:17 AM  

likefunbutnot: I thought it was a pretty strong first issue. And I really want Marvel comics to have a solo title with a female character succeed. Marvel has a few such strong characters: She-Hulk, Spider-Woman and Captain (Ms.) Marvel, each of which really is a take-off on a previously established male character that have diverged over time to the point that they really are completely distinct. But these books never last, and I think the comics world is poorer for it.


You forgot the MC2 Spider-Girl, before they canceled the book that had ran for 15 years so they could use the name for Joey Q's pet sassy Latina, Araña...

...whose book then failed within 8 issues, so now Marvel doesn't have any Spider-Girl book, and succeeded in pissing off the small, but loyal, MC2 Spider-Girl fans to the point that they would never try any of the other shiat Marvel wants to slap the Spider-Girl name on.
 
2012-07-21 10:51:42 AM  

foo monkey: Why is she getting demoted from colonel to captain?


Maybe just a branch transfer from Army to Navy... lateral move instead of a demotion?

/was subby really mixing up the DC and Marvel versions of Captain Marvel?
 
2012-07-21 10:52:43 AM  
I know I'm a little late tot he party here, but I'm a little confused by the author's assertion that there are no strong female characters in the marvel universe.
Storm, Jean Grey, Black Widow, Sue Storm, hell, most of the Runaways, etc. Am I totally off base in thinking that she's totally off base?
 
2012-07-21 11:02:51 AM  

omeganuepsilon: If it succeeds that's dependant on society and the people that tend to buy the things, aka, the target demographic.


That's completely correct... if you assume that the only possible target demographic is the one that likes their female superheroes to have big tits and small stories; and if you assert that any suggestion that even just one title should be targeted at some other demographic is tantamount to foisting a feminist idealistic utopian extremist liberal agenda on an unwilling public, because "obviously" there's no market for anything else or any other demographic that might buy comic books if, you know, the content were a bit different.

In other words, that's completely wrong.

It has been demonstrated over and over again -- most recently in this very thread -- that there is a market for a female superhero that doesn't fit your rather sad tits'n'ass fantasy stereotype. The problem is that it's very hard to get the publishers to address that demographic because the companies are managed by people largely like yourself; and anybody who points this out gets mocked and shouted down... again, by people like yourself.

omeganuepsilon: If it doesn't sell well, you can't blame anyone but people like you shooting for the wrong demographic.


Right, it couldn't possibly because it's the right demographic, but the product doesn't target very well a demographic that actually exists and that would buy the product if it were, you know, actually any good. Clearly, we certainly can't blame the people who make the product for getting it wrong.

Your entire argument makes as much sense as saying that all candy is sweet, therefore there can't possibly be a market for nuts. Because if there were, candy would be nuts. In other words, it's idiotic. So you've got that going for you.

/By the way, I admire the way you worked in phrases like "target demographic" to create the illusion that you have a clue what you are talking about. Which you don't.
//Try looking up "segmentation". It's a biggie.
 
2012-07-21 11:11:18 AM  

czetie: omeganuepsilon: If it succeeds that's dependant on society and the people that tend to buy the things, aka, the target demographic.

That's completely correct... if you assume that the only possible target demographic is the one that likes their female superheroes to have big tits and small stories; and if you assert that any suggestion that even just one title should be targeted at some other demographic is tantamount to foisting a feminist idealistic utopian extremist liberal agenda on an unwilling public, because "obviously" there's no market for anything else or any other demographic that might buy comic books if, you know, the content were a bit different.

In other words, that's completely wrong.

It has been demonstrated over and over again -- most recently in this very thread -- that there is a market for a female superhero that doesn't fit your rather sad tits'n'ass fantasy stereotype. The problem is that it's very hard to get the publishers to address that demographic because the companies are managed by people largely like yourself; and anybody who points this out gets mocked and shouted down... again, by people like yourself.



Thankfully, DC and Marvel only creating books for their "target demographic" and ignoring everyone else has driven their sales into the shiatter and left them both on the brink of failure.

/Let both DC and Marvel go out of business and become nothing more than the IP Farms Disney and WB wants them to be. Comics will be better for it, creatively.
 
2012-07-21 11:24:45 AM  

Wyrdbrthr: Storm, Jean Grey, Black Widow, Sue Storm, hell, most of the Runaways, etc. Am I totally off base in thinking that she's totally off base?


I honestly haven't paid close attention to Marvel for years (I gave up when keeping track of the continuity felt more like work than fun) so the answer to this question may be "yes": Do any of those characters have their own titular book at the moment? (I'm so out of it, I don't even know whether Jean Grey is currently alive or dead.)

Anyway, I think the point the author was making was about "strong" as in product rather than "strong" as in character: Whenever they do give a female the lead, they still manage to screw it up and kill the title.

(There's also the separate-ish point about the way the comics industry generally deals with female characters, the message that sends to female readers in particular, and the way that puts off the potential readers of those characters. It's hard for a book to build a following if the lead character is constantly being raped, killed, resurrected so she can be raped again, sold into intergalactic slavery, and replaced by a new incarnation of the character designed to chase some fleeting media fashion for what a "successful" female character should be, usually involving a skintight leather catsuit.)
 
2012-07-21 11:43:35 AM  

czetie:
I think the point the author was making was about "strong" as in product rather than "strong" as in character: Whenever they do give a female the lead, they still manage to screw it up and kill the title.


That would make sense, though the article really didn't make that distinction. But from the other comments in this thread by people more versed in recent comic events, it sounds like there's a lot more that the writer failed at too. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
2012-07-21 11:45:13 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Thankfully, DC and Marvel only creating books for their "target demographic" and ignoring everyone else has driven their sales into the shiatter and left them both on the brink of failure.


God love you, you're so out to lunch and blinded by your own butthurt.
 
mhd
2012-07-21 11:50:30 AM  

foo monkey: Why is she getting demoted from colonel to captain?


i45.tinypic.com

Don't know where the "gay" thing came from, nothing like this in the comic, unless I missed something.

Next issue cover looks somewhat familiar:

i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-07-21 11:52:21 AM  

mhd: foo monkey:

Next issue cover looks somewhat familiar:

[i46.tinypic.com image 413x600]


You can do it!
 
2012-07-21 11:58:24 AM  

czetie: Jean Grey is currently alive or dead


Currently dead but her past self will soon be coming to the present.
 
2012-07-21 12:00:17 PM  

Hebalo: FirstNationalBastard: Thankfully, DC and Marvel only creating books for their "target demographic" and ignoring everyone else has driven their sales into the shiatter and left them both on the brink of failure.

God love you, you're so out to lunch and blinded by your own butthurt.


You really are a blinded fanboy, aren't you?

Comics are essentially dead. They're shuffling the same small pool of readers around among the same shiatty old books with every reboot. They're not bringing in any new readers, they're making no efforts to expand their pool of readers, and they keep marketing to the same aging fanbase.

But, no "EVERYTHING IS OKAY BECAUZ I LIKE TEH KEWL LIEFELD ART AND ADULT BOOBIES AND CURSING!!111"
 
mhd
2012-07-21 12:03:14 PM  

texdent: Currently dead but her past self will soon be coming to the present.


She's surely missed...

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-07-21 12:11:01 PM  

SevenizGud: The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?


Wow. So space research is stupid according to you, but it's perfectly ok to call something "gay" to mean you think it's stupid?
 
2012-07-21 12:15:16 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: You really are a blinded fanboy, aren't you?

Comics are essentially dead. They're shuffling the same small pool of readers around among the same shiatty old books with every reboot. They're not bringing in any new readers, they're making no efforts to expand their pool of readers, and they keep marketing to the same aging fanbase.

But, no "EVERYTHING IS OKAY BECAUZ I LIKE TEH KEWL LIEFELD ART AND ADULT BOOBIES AND CURSING!!111"


After the wild success of movies like The Avengers and the Dark Knight trilogy, you really think Marvel and DC are struggling?

You're clueless.
 
2012-07-21 12:21:36 PM  

SevenizGud: The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?


The12 year old max has been mostly concentrated under the politics tab , but since comic book characters with the ghey or about woman who have alleged skills other than sandwich makingare being greenlit they take on the same 12 year old level
 
2012-07-21 12:39:06 PM  

SevenizGud: The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?


The12 year old max has been mostly concentrated under the politics tab but since comic book characters with the ghey or about woman who have alleged skills other than sandwich making are being greenlit they take on the same 12 year old level
 
2012-07-21 12:51:43 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Hebalo: FirstNationalBastard: Thankfully, DC and Marvel only creating books for their "target demographic" and ignoring everyone else has driven their sales into the shiatter and left them both on the brink of failure.

God love you, you're so out to lunch and blinded by your own butthurt.

You really are a blinded fanboy, aren't you?

Comics are essentially dead. They're shuffling the same small pool of readers around among the same shiatty old books with every reboot. They're not bringing in any new readers, they're making no efforts to expand their pool of readers, and they keep marketing to the same aging fanbase.

But, no "EVERYTHING IS OKAY BECAUZ I LIKE TEH KEWL LIEFELD ART AND ADULT BOOBIES AND CURSING!!111"


Lol. Nice.

Nope, but I read a lot of books from a lot of publishers, and I've also read many of your posts in the past, and you're nothing but a self important hater. You NEVER miss an opportunity to hack on the "big two", but rarely have anything good to say about comics, or anything really. Must suck to be unhappy all the time.

And I know i'll regret feeding your hate troll, but if you bothered actually looking, DC is in fact expanding their borders with more genre stuff. More magic, more western, war, etc. I listened to a lot of the creators last weekend, and they have a lot of love and interest in what they do.

But I'll just get off your bitter old lawn now.
 
2012-07-21 12:53:35 PM  
Good god I got bored with that rambling navel gazing half way through.

The plot synopsis sounds like something I would be infinitely bored with; long rambling discussions about life and what she is going to do and every stereotype I could put in. Did it involve an ex boyfriend at some point? A sexually non threatening friend zone man? Shoes?

At least with male oriented stupid I get tits and violence. I'm sure I'm not the target audience because I don't have any emotional ties to the character.

Though I will say her point about 'multiple men' carrying the batman/robin/etc mantel is misguided at best. Batman is Bruce Wayne. Superman is Clark. Spidey is Peter, and so on. Green lantern is the only hero I can think of who actually has multiple well known and used incarnations, and not just 'we were test piloting this guy and back to the same character we've been writing for 50 years now'.

Nothing inherently wrong with female superheroes, but don't expect me to go gaga over them any more than you expect women to go gaga over titsboobsviolence book 4.
 
2012-07-21 12:56:55 PM  

jayhawk88: SevenizGud: The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?

You're right, we should definitely have more adult conversations at Fark.com. What were we thinking?

The Pushcart War was neither a War, nor involved Pushcarts: Discuss.


20 (by hand)
 
2012-07-21 12:57:02 PM  

SevenizGud: The thing that's gay is that FARK's greenlights are 20% about comic books, or movies based on them, or conventions about them, etc.

When did Drew put a 12-year-old max on admins?


I take it back. Welcome to 1957.
 
2012-07-21 01:01:41 PM  

Thorak: FirstNationalBastard: You really are a blinded fanboy, aren't you?

Comics are essentially dead. They're shuffling the same small pool of readers around among the same shiatty old books with every reboot. They're not bringing in any new readers, they're making no efforts to expand their pool of readers, and they keep marketing to the same aging fanbase.

But, no "EVERYTHING IS OKAY BECAUZ I LIKE TEH KEWL LIEFELD ART AND ADULT BOOBIES AND CURSING!!111"

After the wild success of movies like The Avengers and the Dark Knight trilogy, you really think Marvel and DC are struggling?

You're clueless.


Wrong. The properties are successful because Marvel and DC are owned by Disney and Warner Bros respectively. They didn't buy the companies to make comic books, they did it to get the properties. The companies themselves, while at the forefront of the industry, are still the loss leaders and have to answer to a board of directors that consistently fiddle with comics lines to reduce the loss and justify keeping those comics on the shelves of a limited (and withering) distribution model.
 
2012-07-21 01:09:47 PM  

Shadowtag: Thorak: FirstNationalBastard: You really are a blinded fanboy, aren't you?

Comics are essentially dead. They're shuffling the same small pool of readers around among the same shiatty old books with every reboot. They're not bringing in any new readers, they're making no efforts to expand their pool of readers, and they keep marketing to the same aging fanbase.

But, no "EVERYTHING IS OKAY BECAUZ I LIKE TEH KEWL LIEFELD ART AND ADULT BOOBIES AND CURSING!!111"

After the wild success of movies like The Avengers and the Dark Knight trilogy, you really think Marvel and DC are struggling?

You're clueless.

Wrong. The properties are successful because Marvel and DC are owned by Disney and Warner Bros respectively. They didn't buy the companies to make comic books, they did it to get the properties. The companies themselves, while at the forefront of the industry, are still the loss leaders and have to answer to a board of directors that consistently fiddle with comics lines to reduce the loss and justify keeping those comics on the shelves of a limited (and withering) distribution model.


Yep.

WB and Disney are doing great.

But DC Comics and Marvel Comics are struggling to top 100,000 copies sold.

And it isn't like WB or Disney would hesitate to chop off the dead wood if necessary. They own the characters now. They don't need the pitiful little bit of money comics make, and they're not going to throw good money after bad to keep comic books afloat.

But, no, everything is okay! The professional fanboys writing the books Loooooooooooooooooooove what they're doing! DC is putting out magic and war books that will be canceled within 6 months! EVERYTHING IS FINE. GO BACK TO SLEEP! AND QUIT CRITICIZING WHAT I LOVE OR I'LL SHOUT YOU DOWN SO THAT ALL THE BIG TWO HEAR IS HOW MUCH WE ENJOY THEM AS THEY CIRCLE THE DRAIN!
 
2012-07-21 01:48:07 PM  

Shadowtag:
Wrong. The properties are successful because Marvel and DC are owned by Disney and Warner Bros respectively. They didn't buy the companies to make comic books, they did it to get the properties. The companies themselves, while at the forefront of the industry, are still the loss leaders and have to answer to a board of directors that consistently fiddle with comics lines to reduce the loss and justify keeping those comics on the shelves of a limited (and withering) distribution model.


The point is that "actual paper comics" are only one product of the industry. If that one product is failing, it does not mean the market itself is failing.

A company adjusts its product lineup to account for changing demographics and demand. News at 11. That doesn't mean DC or Marvel are in the shiatter. Marvel, at least, is WILDLY successful. The movies I mentioned were produced directly by Marvel Entertainment, so are absolutely relevant to the company's profit margins.
 
2012-07-21 01:59:54 PM  
The Real Captain's Marvel

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-07-21 03:31:14 PM  
I'm glad she's taking the name change but I will miss the sexiness of the old costume.
upload.wikimedia.org
fashionablygeek.com
 
mhd
2012-07-21 03:54:00 PM  

Mattevil: I'm glad she's taking the name change but I will miss the sexiness of the old costume.


From the first issues letter page: "This was another move that we knew was going to cause controversy. For years, Carol wore a beautiful costume designed by the legendary Dave Cockrum. It was a sexily cut showcase for the female form (which Dave was a master of illustrating). The costume was definitely titillating, but, again, of its time and none too practical. It's an attention getting outfit to be sure - and it served its purpose well for 35 years - but it wasn't always the attention we wanted for arguably our strongest female character. The overt sexiness of the outfit would often - rightfully or wrongfully - cause the character to be dismissed outright by people unfamiliar with the depth and richness of Carol's backstory.

And to be even more blunt, it's not a costume most fathers would want their daughters dressing up in on Halloween (Arbor Day, sure, but not Halloween!)"


It looks like they're trying to make her into a somewhat old-fashioned Golden Age superhero, Marvel's female Superman. Interesting direction, and not something we're seeing a lot these days. Wonder how that is going to work out for them...
 
2012-07-21 04:12:27 PM  
Just bring back Nextwave Agents of H.A.T.E and/or Agents of Atlas Marvel.
I'm only reading Shield and Nick Fury:Max right now, the rest of their stuff is dreck(not counting some of the ICON stuff).

I do like the new costume however.
 
2012-07-21 04:27:03 PM  

darkdaye: I missed the part where it said Carol was no longer straight.

//She totally wants Spider-man.


You kidding? Just look at the she-mullet! It practically screams "dress me in plaid flannel!"
 
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