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(The Onion)   Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out   (theonion.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Colorado Shooting, Colorado  
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24351 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2012 at 11:35 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-21 02:55:49 AM  
BRONYMEDIC - You mean this one? It's from 2008. DArk and funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6eSPWaUsgY


yep this was on around 9pm last night ABC , right when the story was breaking on the net.
 
2012-07-21 02:55:54 AM  

Renowned transvestite sexologist: If the magazine is smaller, the person brings more guns that have full magazines. Sociopathic killers are kind of like that. I propose that as long as guns are legal in the United States, Sociopathic mass murders will continue to use them to kill a high number of people per incident no matter what regulations you put on gun sales.


The sad truth is that even if guns were illegal, a sociopathic would be murderer would still find a way to get his hands on one. Would it be much harder? Yes, but asserting that outlawing firearms would prevent people from owning guns is akin to saying that outlawing narcotics would prevent people from ever using them.
 
2012-07-21 02:57:42 AM  
Has anything from the shooter been released? Kind of weird that he'd leave it as a guessing game.
 
2012-07-21 02:57:52 AM  

elguerodiablo: [img31.imageshack.us image 576x432]


Please get puu.sh, that shiat's just awful.
 
2012-07-21 03:00:40 AM  

Novart: Has anything from the shooter been released? Kind of weird that he'd leave it as a guessing game.


Not much. He was a neurologist going for his PhD and dropping out. That is about as much as is out there. He said he was the Joker when the police nabbed him.
 
2012-07-21 03:06:13 AM  
It's too early to tell much. shiat at this point is usually not what ends up being the case later on. When the Loughner incident happened there was so much bullshiat in the air it was hard to breathe. "Gang of Tea Party Communist sympathizers armed to the teeth wearing trench coats parachuted from a Zepplin into the Kroger store in Tallahassee, California and killed Congressman Gabby Cameron. Wait, do we have confirmation on this? Yes, that is definitely what happened according to iReport."
 
2012-07-21 03:12:34 AM  

dave1y: New Yorkers respond differently than, say, people in a small town in Iowa would. I dunno.


Yeah they do. They biatch and moan about it for decades. Iowans (and other normal people) keep their grief private and move on. New Yorkers have some sort of sick persecution complex. Doesn't matter that throats are being slit in Bosnia or Iraq, or that people are being blown to bits in Palestine or irradiated and drowned in Japan - If someone gets a farking hangnail in New York we've all got to be somber and sympathetic for 10-15 years.

/only half joking
 
2012-07-21 03:22:04 AM  
It was aliens. Definitely aliens.
 
2012-07-21 03:23:49 AM  

liquidsiphon: Replace high capacity rounds with high capacity mags. Long night it seems.


What "sunset" period would you apply to a prohibition upon such magazines before allowing civilian ownership of them again, should such a prohibition fail to demonstrably reduce rates of homicide?

How would current owners of such magazines be fully compensated for the loss of their property?

How do you address the fact that many magazines of a standard capacity for their designated firearm model are dishonestly labeled as "extended capacity" by civilian disarmament advocates?
 
2012-07-21 03:26:46 AM  
I for one am interested to know ACTUAL information about the guy. I will thus be ignoring the media completely until they HAVE forgotten, then I will do independent research on just the objective facts, as best as I can get them. Mass murderers do tend to have interesting mentalities, speaking from a psychological viewpoint. I wonder if he fits into any of the major categories... was this was more along the lines of the Leo Held or Richard Speck style "none-of-my-problems-are-because-I-make-bad-decisions-but-because-the- world-is-against-me-so-I'll-make-them-pay-for-what-I-think-they-did-to -me" sort, or if he felt he had some sort of cause like Mark Essex or Marc Lepine, or if it really were a matter of mental health problems like Charles Whitman or Howard Unruh. I have spent my life studying violent pathology, so I have experience compartmentalizing the horror and sadness I feel about the tragedy from my curiousity about the psychological motivations of the shooter.
 
2012-07-21 03:28:14 AM  

invictus2: the article also forgot, of the tacky digital remembrances

[i.imgur.com image 600x800]

[i.imgur.com image 540x720]

[i.imgur.com image 720x720]


Don't forget the outrage upon the discovery of the eerily similar scene in one of the newest gen fps games down the road.
 
2012-07-21 03:33:39 AM  

Dimensio: liquidsiphon: Replace high capacity rounds with high capacity mags. Long night it seems.

What "sunset" period would you apply to a prohibition upon such magazines before allowing civilian ownership of them again, should such a prohibition fail to demonstrably reduce rates of homicide?

How would current owners of such magazines be fully compensated for the loss of their property?

How do you address the fact that many magazines of a standard capacity for their designated firearm model are dishonestly labeled as "extended capacity" by civilian disarmament advocates?


Sunset part: I'm not opposed to a grandfather period. If you own extended mags you can keep them and they simply stop being available. As far as your condition as prohibiting them does not reduce homicide rate, I suppose that would be determined when we see the results.

Compensation part: Current owners get to keep them. I don't think anyone should take what people already own.

Standard Capacity: For the last part. I'm not a part of a civilian disarmament group. Extended mags to me extend the capacity of a firearm. Best I can do for you.
 
2012-07-21 03:35:14 AM  

Mitch Mitchell: It was aliens. Definitely aliens.


Close. Very close.
 
2012-07-21 03:41:56 AM  

batcookie: I for one am interested to know ACTUAL information about the guy. I will thus be ignoring the media completely until they HAVE forgotten, then I will do independent research on just the objective facts, as best as I can get them. Mass murderers do tend to have interesting mentalities, speaking from a psychological viewpoint. I wonder if he fits into any of the major categories... was this was more along the lines of the Leo Held or Richard Speck style "none-of-my-problems-are-because-I-make-bad-decisions-but-because-the- world-is-against-me-so-I'll-make-them-pay-for-what-I-think-they-did-to -me" sort, or if he felt he had some sort of cause like Mark Essex or Marc Lepine, or if it really were a matter of mental health problems like Charles Whitman or Howard Unruh. I have spent my life studying violent pathology, so I have experience compartmentalizing the horror and sadness I feel about the tragedy from my curiousity about the psychological motivations of the shooter.


To be fair sometimes you make the right decision but the results are basically punishment for you. If you spend more time liking yourself than trying to get others to like you though you'll handle it fine.

I wonder how many people will interpret that as apologetic for the action after reading only the first three words, and then look at my profile pics and ask Drew to make a "hide from" button. Sorry I drank two scotch scones and I have no tolerance for alcohol anymore. I hope you enjoy my ramblings because I don't and they're dumb.
 
2012-07-21 03:45:00 AM  

liquidsiphon: Sunset part: I'm not opposed to a grandfather period. If you own extended mags you can keep them and they simply stop being available. As far as your condition as prohibiting them does not reduce homicide rate, I suppose that would be determined when we see the results.


If only a previous implementation of such a nationwide prohibition during a temporary span of time had occurred.
 
2012-07-21 04:00:25 AM  

whatshisname: Renowned transvestite sexologist: There's no politics that can stop this, there's no laws that can fix this, nothing can fix this.

So why doesn't it happen with such frequency in other western countries?


Go talk to Ireland.
 
2012-07-21 04:08:57 AM  

eventhelosers: batcookie: I for one am interested to know ACTUAL information about the guy. I will thus be ignoring the media completely until they HAVE forgotten, then I will do independent research on just the objective facts, as best as I can get them. Mass murderers do tend to have interesting mentalities, speaking from a psychological viewpoint. I wonder if he fits into any of the major categories... was this was more along the lines of the Leo Held or Richard Speck style "none-of-my-problems-are-because-I-make-bad-decisions-but-because-the- world-is-against-me-so-I'll-make-them-pay-for-what-I-think-they-did-to -me" sort, or if he felt he had some sort of cause like Mark Essex or Marc Lepine, or if it really were a matter of mental health problems like Charles Whitman or Howard Unruh. I have spent my life studying violent pathology, so I have experience compartmentalizing the horror and sadness I feel about the tragedy from my curiousity about the psychological motivations of the shooter.

To be fair sometimes you make the right decision but the results are basically punishment for you. If you spend more time liking yourself than trying to get others to like you though you'll handle it fine.

I wonder how many people will interpret that as apologetic for the action after reading only the first three words, and then look at my profile pics and ask Drew to make a "hide from" button. Sorry I drank two scotch scones and I have no tolerance for alcohol anymore. I hope you enjoy my ramblings because I don't and they're dumb.


I'm not saying the world is fair, but if you knew about Richard Speck or Leo Held that would not be an issue to bring up. For these types, it's all about imagined slights against them. They tend to have low self-esteem, and sometimes even something about them that IS off-putting (Speck, for instance, was one of the ugliest mother farkers ever to grace the planet), and thus start off in their earliest social interactions on the defensive. Often these types are compensatory narcissists - people who really have self-esteem issues, but because that's an anxiety-provoking state of mind they over-compensate by puffing themselves up unrealistically. A slight for these kinds of guys can be something as simple as cutting them off in traffic to not inviting them to a party, to something as stupid as envy or resentment over something the person doesn't even necessarily have control over (again, for instance, for Speck what sparked his murderous rage was the fact that one of the girls who lived in the dorm he was robbing happened to resemble his ex-wife, who he REALLY wanted to kill). These guys, as a result of their fragile psyche and self-esteem balanced on a knife's edge, are also REALLY opposed to taking personal responsibility for anything, as that would be admitting fault in themselves, which to someone who needs to cling to their puffed up image to keep from breaking down, is nearly impossible. This also feeds into their hatred for the outside world - it starts early, usually due to physical or social short-comings, and as they get older and inevitably don't have everything go their way, the blame he heaps on humanity in general adds to that already hurt and defensive mind-set he's struggled to get away from since childhood. Since I've been using Speck as my for instance, we'll continue the trend... Speck drank heavily and spent a good lot of his life in prison due to his own bad decisions (writing bad checks, burglary, etc), and as a result was constantly locked away. He blamed his employers for firing him, despite the fact that it was because HE was always getting himself thrown in jail; he blamed his wife for his not being there to make sure she wasn't cheating on him; he blamed doctors for not being able to fix his headaches, when the reason he got them was that he was too vain to wear his glasses... the list goes on (of course with Speck, it's also important to keep in mind that he was taught that from a young age, as he was raised by his mother and sister and they spoiled him and never punished him and turned him into an entitled little brat that felt women were weak and there to serve him). The fact is, this type of mass murderer generally has no one to blame for his problems but himself, but it's easier to take it out on everyone else.
 
2012-07-21 04:18:09 AM  

highwayrun: whatshisname: Renowned transvestite sexologist: There's no politics that can stop this, there's no laws that can fix this, nothing can fix this.

So why doesn't it happen with such frequency in other western countries?

Go talk to Ireland.


Britain took the two logical steps needed to fight the IRA: they started treating them as criminals, and then they acknowledged that merely because some douchebag and his two brothers were CALLING themselves "the Real IRA" did not mean that they were either the Real IRA or that the ACTUAL IRA was breaking the truce. Once that was done, the sectarian violence dwindled.

For the rest, not having readily accessible firearms in most of Great Britain reduces the number of random gun deaths; but I suspect that if you split out "murderous knife rampages" from overall homicides--in other words, if you put the US and Britain on a weapons parity--they way outstrip us in weirdos who kill one another with butcher knives, samurai swords, and chainsaws.
 
2012-07-21 04:33:01 AM  

Gyrfalcon: For the rest, not having readily accessible firearms in most of Great Britain reduces the number of random gun deaths; but I suspect that if you split out "murderous knife rampages" from overall homicides--in other words, if you put the US and Britain on a weapons parity--they way outstrip us in weirdos who kill one another with butcher knives, samurai swords, and chainsaws.


Exactly


In fact, they seem to be having a rash of knife crime. People are always going to find a way to kill you if they want to.

Link
 
2012-07-21 06:04:57 AM  

BigJake: JerkyMeat: They missed the part where more of our freedoms are lost in the name of feeling safe. Yeah, fark you GOPers.

They're not the ones calling for more gun control though?


It isn't gun freedoms we've been losing for the last couple of decades - in fact, we have gained on that front. The Patriot Act doesn't take anybody's guns away - and gun rights are probably the LEAST threatened rights we have today. The millenium Copyright act didn't take any guns away. Your freedoms are being stripped away from you one by one, but you only care about your stupid guns - which aren't even threatened.
And before you reply with something stupid - I own guns, always have, and am not a "liberal".
 
2012-07-21 06:19:43 AM  
Is it considered IRONIC that we are discussing (and flogging) the news for being single minded, when something like 10% of the threads on Fark are about this very subject?

Or is it just pathetic?
 
2012-07-21 06:21:15 AM  

hbk72777: Gyrfalcon: For the rest, not having readily accessible firearms in most of Great Britain reduces the number of random gun deaths; but I suspect that if you split out "murderous knife rampages" from overall homicides--in other words, if you put the US and Britain on a weapons parity--they way outstrip us in weirdos who kill one another with butcher knives, samurai swords, and chainsaws.

Exactly


In fact, they seem to be having a rash of knife crime. People are always going to find a way to kill you if they want to.

Link


Nope. Homiciides per 100,000 of population:

UK 1.23
USA 4.8
 
2012-07-21 06:25:58 AM  

Renowned transvestite sexologist: Sociopathic mass murders


How many 'Sociopathic mass murders' are carried out with cars you dumb shiat.
 
2012-07-21 06:35:02 AM  

tonguedepressor: Renowned transvestite sexologist: Sociopathic mass murders

How many 'Sociopathic mass murders' are carried out with cars you dumb shiat.


Quite a few, actually - it's not especially unusual for some drunk or lunatic to plow his car into a crowd on purpose. One particularly awful incident I can rember was the Davis Attias incident in Isla Vista - but it isn't uncommon. You probably shouldn't have called him a "dumb shiat", under these circumstances.
 
2012-07-21 07:35:54 AM  

Swoop1809: Why was he able to leave through an emergency exit without an alarm going off? And why was he able to prop open an emergency door? I couldn't prop open the door to my dorm without an alarm sounding, why are these just regular doors?

If an emergency exit is being used for emergencies then an alarm going off when propped isn't an issue since there's a god damn emergency. When the alarm goes off during your movie for no reason that should raise some suspicion in the security office.


www.immortalmusic.net

Most movie theaters' "emergency exits" are actually just normal doors with no opening from the outside. They are not only for emergencies, but for allowing easier access to the outside for people leaving the movie. Once you leave, the door closes and locks, preventing re-entry. All it'd take is someone to prop a door open.
 
2012-07-21 08:06:06 AM  
liquidsiphon:100 round AR-15 mags are definitely going to be used more by the psychos than people defending their homes.

Sure, 100 round mags aren't exactly common for self-defense. No debate there. That said, they're certainly not uncommon for sport and recreational shooting -- there are far more legitimate uses of such magazines than there are criminal uses.

Restricting a specific tool (whether guns or magazines) isn't really going to do much good: the US already tried that between 1994 and 2004 (longer, in some states) and it had essentially no effect on crime. The laws did affect law-abiding people, though.

I'd probably be more worthwhile to work on providing better, more accessible mental health (or other relevant) care to people, so as to get help for people who might otherwise turn to violence.

I live in Switzerland. Here, the government issues automatic rifles to all members of the military (and military service is mandatory for all males, except those with mental or physical problems which preclude such service). The majority of homes have automatic rifles (and ammo) in them. Recreational, sport, and competitive shooting is also extremely common with privately-owned firearms. Magazines of various sizes are widely available...and yet violent crime is essentially non-existent. Why? I posit that it's because they have a good health care system (including mental health) and generous public benefits (so as to prevent people from becoming poor and desperate, thus turning to violent crime), among other reasons.

While difficult, it's better to identify and treat the cause of the problem (violence/violent crime) rather than trying the easier but not effective route of treating the symptoms.

/sadly, the Onion hit the nail on the head with this article.
 
2012-07-21 08:09:30 AM  

Hobodeluxe: The subject legally purchased four guns in the last 60 days at two different chain stores. He also purchased 6,000 rounds of various ammunition on the internet in addition to multiple magazines for the assault rifle, including a 100-round drum magazine.

you'd think that the ATF would have a red flag pop up if someone started rapidly loading up like this but no they can't. Thanks NRA


Haha, yeah, were it not for the NRA, this particular government entity would be operating at 100% efficiency and making sure that bad stuff never happens. Just like the SEC protects us from all ponzi schemes and other financial shenanigans. And like how nothing ever slips past the TSA.

Liberals really think like this.
 
2012-07-21 08:19:34 AM  

liquidsiphon: Sunset part: I'm not opposed to a grandfather period. If you own extended mags you can keep them and they simply stop being available. As far as your condition as prohibiting them does not reduce homicide rate, I suppose that would be determined when we see the results.


Is 10 years enough time? I only ask because it's already been done. The net effect? Zero. Bupkis. Nothing. Oh, violent crime dropped during the period of the AWB to be sure, but guess what? In the 8 years since it sunsetted violent crime has continued to drop. Correlation does not equal causation.

The point is this: your solution isn't one, and it's known that it isn't one. It's nothing but a panacea, a mantra of gun-control people, if we give them just this one thing it will help. It doesn't help. It genuinely doesn't matter. We gave them that one thing and it mattered so little that when it went away nobody noticed except the Brady Campaign, the Violence Policy Center, and legislators who could now push for some "new" crime-control measure. The fact that the Assault Weapons Ban has not been renewed even with a Democratic supermajority for a time speaks volumes. Nobody wanted to put their careers on the line for something that did not matter. They would have been crucified for nothing.
 
2012-07-21 08:46:06 AM  

BigJake: Hey, everyone who's spamming that ribbon-with-Batman-silhouette on Facebook. Knock it the fark off, there is nothing tackier and stupider


Remember when everyone on twitter and FB changed their avatars and pictures and pretended to care about Iran for a few days?
Good times.
 
2012-07-21 08:59:00 AM  

Aloy: /Seriously, WTF is it with Colorado people?


Sure, Florida gets its own tag. But the mass murder nut case capital of America? Noooooo.
 
2012-07-21 09:00:26 AM  

Hobodeluxe: The subject legally purchased four guns in the last 60 days at two different chain stores. He also purchased 6,000 rounds of various ammunition on the internet in addition to multiple magazines for the assault rifle, including a 100-round drum magazine.

you'd think that the ATF would have a red flag pop up if someone started rapidly loading up like this but no they can't. Thanks NRA


Actually, that sounds like someone buying in bulk so that they can have a full day at the range. THe multiple magazines are so that he doesn't have to refill the farkers in the middle of the range.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: It could have happened anywhere, at any time. There are 300 million people in this country, at any given time, at least one crack pot is planning is big scene for all to see. It's just the way it is. There's no politics that can stop this, there's no laws that can fix this, nothing can fix this. We can set up a utopia with a 100% employment rate, full access to preventative medical coverage (mental and physical), and a place where everyone actually lives their dreams...the fact of the matter is this shiat will still happen.

We can live in fear or we can live.

/there's nothing to see here, move along


You can take your logic elsewhere. This is fark, dangnabbit.

/Where's the pictures filled with a sadistic sense of humor that make me feel like i'm going to goto hell when i laugh?

//WHAR!?

Tyranicle: In my opinion, the ant-gun activists (with the exception of Bloomberg) will keep quiet regarding what happened. They're all too busy waiting and hoping Obama is re elected.

What activists will do is use this as an excuse to psychologically profile potential gun buyers. Probubly. After all, the gunman was a neuro scientist with no criminal history or apparent signs of physchological problems according to his friends.

Just my two cents.


Bloomberg's already gone full whack job, saying that there should be more gun control.

There's no way the money will be available to profile EVERY gun buyer.


Swoop1809: Why was he able to leave through an emergency exit without an alarm going off? And why was he able to prop open an emergency door? I couldn't prop open the door to my dorm without an alarm sounding, why are these just regular doors?

If an emergency exit is being used for emergencies then an alarm going off when propped isn't an issue since there's a god damn emergency. When the alarm goes off during your movie for no reason that should raise some suspicion in the security office.


Not every theatre is the hallmark of superb maintenance.
 
2012-07-21 09:16:27 AM  

JerkyMeat: They missed the part where more of our freedoms are lost in the name of feeling safe. Yeah, fark you GOPers. You farking pussies.


surprised i got half way through the thread before this particular type of pure crap showed up.
 
2012-07-21 09:24:35 AM  

MAYORBOB: Who will counsel the grief counselors?


static.flickr.com

He's on it already
 
2012-07-21 09:38:13 AM  

highwayrun: whatshisname: Renowned transvestite sexologist: There's no politics that can stop this, there's no laws that can fix this, nothing can fix this.

So why doesn't it happen with such frequency in other western countries?

Go talk to Ireland.


Thing is I don't think outliers should be used as a basis to judge *anything*. Shootings like this are shocking because they are rare. Looking at the per capita murder rate for various countries the US is more useful. Europe is certainly a safer place than the US but it's pretty much a farking war zone in central and south america. Looking at average gun ownership here and here does not appear to show any correlation between the number of guns per capita and the per capita murder rate. Sadly if this guy had used bombs instead of guns he probably would have been more effective at killing people.
 
2012-07-21 09:44:03 AM  
But how is this affecting the box office of The Dark Knight? I WANT ANSWERS
 
2012-07-21 10:13:12 AM  

rwfan: highwayrun: whatshisname: Renowned transvestite sexologist: There's no politics that can stop this, there's no laws that can fix this, nothing can fix this.

So why doesn't it happen with such frequency in other western countries?

Go talk to Ireland.

Thing is I don't think outliers should be used as a basis to judge *anything*. Shootings like this are shocking because they are rare. Looking at the per capita murder rate for various countries the US is more useful. Europe is certainly a safer place than the US but it's pretty much a farking war zone in central and south america. Looking at average gun ownership here and here does not appear to show any correlation between the number of guns per capita and the per capita murder rate. Sadly if this guy had used bombs instead of guns he probably would have been more effective at killing people.


In my simple mind: America was settled mostly by the type A personalities from Europe. If they weren't a bit agressive, they'd have never left. You put that many type A personalities together, it's gonna get rowdy from time to time.

/Oh, and a bunch of Irish, but we see how they act at home :)
 
2012-07-21 10:43:18 AM  

MAYORBOB: Who will counsel the grief counselors?


The people who cut the grief counselors' paychecks.
 
2012-07-21 10:52:12 AM  

RanDomino: Did you hear The Dark Knight was a comedy? Yeah, it had people rolling in the aisles.


I am so mad at you for making me laugh at that.
 
2012-07-21 11:14:17 AM  

enik: Hobodeluxe: The subject legally purchased four guns in the last 60 days at two different chain stores. He also purchased 6,000 rounds of various ammunition on the internet in addition to multiple magazines for the assault rifle, including a 100-round drum magazine.

you'd think that the ATF would have a red flag pop up if someone started rapidly loading up like this but no they can't. Thanks NRA

Haha, yeah, were it not for the NRA, this particular government entity would be operating at 100% efficiency and making sure that bad stuff never happens. Just like the SEC protects us from all ponzi schemes and other financial shenanigans. And like how nothing ever slips past the TSA.

Liberals really think like this.


i18.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-21 11:25:28 AM  

Walker: Knee jerk reactions left and right are already happening. AMC says no more costumes, masks, or fake weapons allowed. And people are saying they want metal detectors and nude scanners at theaters. Good thing I hardly go to the movies. This will make me go even less if they start searching me every time I walk thru the door. Crazy people are everywhere. If they want to hurt you they will. There's no amount of preventative measures that will prevent it. You could be caring a gun, but they can still shoot you in the back of the head without warning. Life comes with risk. If you don't want to take the risk seal yourself in a bunker.


This...if a person was carrying there might have been less hurt and killed, or might not. I carry, but I was not in that crowd. Even if I was, it would be a stretch to say I would have had a clear shot.
 
2012-07-21 11:28:41 AM  

Hobodeluxe: The subject legally purchased four guns in the last 60 days at two different chain stores. He also purchased 6,000 rounds of various ammunition on the internet in addition to multiple magazines for the assault rifle, including a 100-round drum magazine.

you'd think that the ATF would have a red flag pop up if someone started rapidly loading up like this but no they can't. Thanks NRA


Yes thanks indeed. I have made similar purchases and have not killed anyone. Keep licking those boots.
 
2012-07-21 11:31:21 AM  

Aikidogamer: Walker: Knee jerk reactions left and right are already happening. AMC says no more costumes, masks, or fake weapons allowed. And people are saying they want metal detectors and nude scanners at theaters. Good thing I hardly go to the movies. This will make me go even less if they start searching me every time I walk thru the door. Crazy people are everywhere. If they want to hurt you they will. There's no amount of preventative measures that will prevent it. You could be caring a gun, but they can still shoot you in the back of the head without warning. Life comes with risk. If you don't want to take the risk seal yourself in a bunker.

This...if a person was carrying there might have been less hurt and killed, or might not. I carry, but I was not in that crowd. Even if I was, it would be a stretch to say I would have had a clear shot.


Find me a weapon small enough for concealed carry that can do any serious damage to modern body armor.
 
2012-07-21 11:38:49 AM  

rohar: Aikidogamer: Walker: Knee jerk reactions left and right are already happening. AMC says no more costumes, masks, or fake weapons allowed. And people are saying they want metal detectors and nude scanners at theaters. Good thing I hardly go to the movies. This will make me go even less if they start searching me every time I walk thru the door. Crazy people are everywhere. If they want to hurt you they will. There's no amount of preventative measures that will prevent it. You could be caring a gun, but they can still shoot you in the back of the head without warning. Life comes with risk. If you don't want to take the risk seal yourself in a bunker.

This...if a person was carrying there might have been less hurt and killed, or might not. I carry, but I was not in that crowd. Even if I was, it would be a stretch to say I would have had a clear shot.

Find me a weapon small enough for concealed carry that can do any serious damage to modern body armor.


Shot placement? .45 acp FMJ. The amount of energy would still knock a guy down so you can easily follow up with a head shot. Also if one were to shoot the back of leg just above the knee a major artery would sever and bleed out death would be less than a minute. It is not like the video games where body armor = invulnerable.

That said, I was trying to communicate that no amount if preparation will prevent every tragedy. Evil men will do evil things if thy are committed enough.
 
2012-07-21 11:42:08 AM  

Dimensio: liquidsiphon: Replace high capacity rounds with high capacity mags. Long night it seems.

What "sunset" period would you apply to a prohibition upon such magazines before allowing civilian ownership of them again, should such a prohibition fail to demonstrably reduce rates of homicide?

How would current owners of such magazines be fully compensated for the loss of their property?

How do you address the fact that many magazines of a standard capacity for their designated firearm model are dishonestly labeled as "extended capacity" by civilian disarmament advocates?


Or the fact that any it the weapons banned in the Brady bill have been used in less than. 01% of violent crimes.
 
2012-07-21 11:46:08 AM  

liquidsiphon: Dimensio: liquidsiphon: Replace high capacity rounds with high capacity mags. Long night it seems.

What "sunset" period would you apply to a prohibition upon such magazines before allowing civilian ownership of them again, should such a prohibition fail to demonstrably reduce rates of homicide?

How would current owners of such magazines be fully compensated for the loss of their property?

How do you address the fact that many magazines of a standard capacity for their designated firearm model are dishonestly labeled as "extended capacity" by civilian disarmament advocates?

Sunset part: I'm not opposed to a grandfather period. If you own extended mags you can keep them and they simply stop being available. As far as your condition as prohibiting them does not reduce homicide rate, I suppose that would be determined when we see the results.

Compensation part: Current owners get to keep them. I don't think anyone should take what people already own.

Standard Capacity: For the last part. I'm not a part of a civilian disarmament group. Extended mags to me extend the capacity of a firearm. Best I can do for you.


Extended mag? That is a magazine that has a piece added to make more room for the bullets. Its like a PPS going from 7-8. A drum magazine is a drum magazine. It is not extended, it is exactly as it was intended.
 
2012-07-21 11:49:10 AM  

Aikidogamer: rohar: Aikidogamer: Walker: Knee jerk reactions left and right are already happening. AMC says no more costumes, masks, or fake weapons allowed. And people are saying they want metal detectors and nude scanners at theaters. Good thing I hardly go to the movies. This will make me go even less if they start searching me every time I walk thru the door. Crazy people are everywhere. If they want to hurt you they will. There's no amount of preventative measures that will prevent it. You could be caring a gun, but they can still shoot you in the back of the head without warning. Life comes with risk. If you don't want to take the risk seal yourself in a bunker.

This...if a person was carrying there might have been less hurt and killed, or might not. I carry, but I was not in that crowd. Even if I was, it would be a stretch to say I would have had a clear shot.

Find me a weapon small enough for concealed carry that can do any serious damage to modern body armor.

Shot placement? .45 acp FMJ. The amount of energy would still knock a guy down so you can easily follow up with a head shot. Also if one were to shoot the back of leg just above the knee a major artery would sever and bleed out death would be less than a minute. It is not like the video games where body armor = invulnerable.

That said, I was trying to communicate that no amount if preparation will prevent every tragedy. Evil men will do evil things if thy are committed enough.


The .45 won't knock a guy down without penetrating the body armor with a body mass shot. Physics prevents it. If it could, it'd knock whoever fired it down too. Newton's law and all. You're right though. Even if there were 10 people gunning for him, he had surprise and overwhelming firepower. Any effective shot is so low percentage that the entire conversation of concealed carry, regarding this incident, is completely misplaced.

All the gun control in the world won't stop these incidents. It's almost impossible to get your hands on a weapon in Germany, but the Red Army Faction created blood baths for decades.
 
2012-07-21 11:54:43 AM  
Shooting? What shooting?
 
2012-07-21 11:55:45 AM  

Wayne 985: ZipSplat: X-boxershorts: Oh...fark you

That's all you have? Not some argument to the contrary? In the aftermath of the Tucson shooting the anti-gun portion of the left was trying to ban high capacity magazines. It's not an irrational thing to be concerned with that subset of the left wanting to ban guns after these things. It always happens. Rachel Maddow (who I otherwise enjoy) spends weeks talking about how we should ban things because "if high capacity magazines didn't exist, someone could have tackled Loughner sooner".

So it is an on-going battle. It's not irrational to be defensive on this issue. Gun grabbers are still grabbing at guns.

It sounds like Rachel Maddow had a good point. I'm fine with gun ownership, but Jesus. Things should probably be a little more regulated and restricted when maniacs can buy those kind of weapons.


I am also a trained in the use of knives and katanas. Turn me lose on a crowd of unarmed people ans I guarantee I will kill more than 12.

/ not gonna do it.
// just pointing out the fact a weapon does not kill people do. And anything is dangerous in the hands of a driven person whom seeks to cause others harm
 
2012-07-21 11:56:06 AM  
rohar
Find me a weapon small enough for concealed carry that can do any serious damage to modern body armor.

I think you mean PENETRATE armor.

CZ-52 or TT-33 "Tokarev" 7.62x25mm

Occasionally at gun shows you can find 9mm steelcore ammo made by Hirtenberger. It is 124 grain +p fmj and will defeat level III body armor.

Any 9mm "NATO" 124 fmj (1200 + fps) will defeat Level I,II and II-A armor.

Google " NIJ threat level" for details on armor penetration.

.....oh,and the 125 grain fmj .357 Sig will defeat most body armor.
too.
 
2012-07-21 12:00:10 PM  

liquidsiphon: So the hassle of reloading is why high capacity magazines should be allowed?ZipSplat: liquidsiphon: I just don't think you need to have high capacity magazines. What would be the use? If you are hunting you aren't going to fire 30+ rounds at a target. There's no point to high capacity magazines that I can think of. Not trying to mock or anything, I just don't see the point.

1) To not have to reload all the time for sport shooting.
2) To not have to reload all the time if you're killing people, which is what the 2nd Amendment's protection is intended for.

We live in a country that has as one of its founding principles the preservation of your ability to have a gun for the express reason of defending yourself or the country - which means killing other human beings.

So the hassle of reloading is why high capacity magazines should be allowed? Or is because you need more round to kill other people who you feel are a threat? This isn't the wild west. We actually have police to handle it and 100 round AR-15 mags are definitely going to be used more by the psychos than people defending their homes.


Ok boot locker, it is really simple. The US is founded on a healthy mistrust of government. Part of that mistrust dictates if the govt gets too out of hand the people have a right and responsibility to stop it. High capacity mags are necessary to that end. Honestly my view is, if a cop can use it you should be able to own it.
 
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