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(BBC)   Mother arriving at hospital: Help, my baby's dying. Hospital: Yeah... we're kinda busy. Tell you what, though, there is another hospital about 20 miles from here, why don't you give them a go?   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 159
    More: Fail, NHS Foundation Trust, Stafford Hospital, obstetrics, West Midlands, Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust  
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17057 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jul 2012 at 12:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-20 05:04:10 PM
Exceptionally sad. If this was in the U.S. (at least for now), lawyers would have been called on the way to the other hospital. I hope the hospital is found negligent and appropriate personnel fired.

Yeah, I read the article, but I'm concentrating on the hospital's responsibility, rather than a panicked set of parent's inablility to convey how important the situation was.
 
2012-07-20 05:11:40 PM
The important lesson to take away here is that socialized medicine will kill all the babies.
 
2012-07-20 05:30:25 PM
Damn, they're turning cute white babies away?

I can't imagine how her parents must feel.
Again, so very thankful that my daughter is alive and healthy.

diaphoresis: Exceptionally sad. If this was in the U.S. (at least for now), lawyers would have been called on the way to the other hospital. I hope the hospital is found negligent and appropriate personnel fired.

Yeah, I read the article, but I'm concentrating on the hospital's responsibility, rather than a panicked set of parent's inablility to convey how important the situation was.


diaphoresis: Exceptionally sad. If this was in the U.S. (at least for now), lawyers would have been called on the way to the other hospital. I hope the hospital is found negligent and appropriate personnel fired.

Yeah, I read the article, but I'm concentrating on the hospital's responsibility, rather than a panicked set of parent's inablility to convey how important the situation was.


Why bother? The lawyers would have come calling today. This is just wrong.
 
2012-07-20 07:21:05 PM
Pitiful hospital if it is only able to handle one emergency at a time.
 
2012-07-20 09:16:39 PM
I am truely sorry for her lots.
 
2012-07-20 09:57:13 PM
As much as I want to feel sorry for her, hospital emergency rooms must treat the sickest patients first. If, literally, the entire emergency room filled up in the same hour with sick kids on death's door, as they claimed, through some incredible abberation of probability, there's really nothing else you can do but try another emergency room.

I don't know about ambulances, but I know fire stations will shrink their protective radius in the 911 system if they have too many trucks out at once, forcing neighbor fire stations to respond to calls in their district. This sounds to be the same thing, but for hospitals.
 
2012-07-20 10:07:04 PM
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!! BOOGA BOOGA!!
 
2012-07-21 12:13:14 AM
I'm not really sure what any of you guys are talking about, when we should really be discussing the dad's unibrow. It's what's really important in this article.
 
2012-07-21 12:28:46 AM

diaphoresis: Exceptionally sad. If this was in the U.S. (at least for now), lawyers would have been called on the way to the other hospital. I hope the hospital is found negligent and appropriate personnel fired.

Yeah, I read the article, but I'm concentrating on the hospital's responsibility, rather than a panicked set of parent's inablility to convey how important the situation was.


I'm pretty sure hospitals here go on "divert" as well. It's not that uncommon.
 
2012-07-21 12:30:22 AM
If the ER was on diversion, why did the medics bring her there anyway? Also, if all she needed was an IV to get her stabilized, what kind of lame-ass medics do they have in Britain who can't even start a line on a baby?

Or did the family just call an "ambulance service" which is no better than a taxi with sirens?
 
2012-07-21 12:31:28 AM
Before socialized public health programs, people died because there were not procedures in place or any help.

After socialized public health programs, people will die because there are not procedures in place or any help -- but at least there will be more people to blame.
 
2012-07-21 12:31:53 AM
Thoughts and prayers go out to the family and dead baby girl.
 
2012-07-21 12:32:20 AM

Chameleon: SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!! BOOGA BOOGA!!


Well that just a well thought out post right there.
 
2012-07-21 12:32:38 AM
Typical Tea Party Farkster: Must. Find. Way. To. Blame. Obama.
 
2012-07-21 12:33:15 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Pitiful hospital if it is only able to handle one emergency at a time.


I saw a truly tiny rural hospital on a trip in the UK. One 2am visit to the ER, the nurse had to wake up the doctor on call. Evidently, the only time he saw any business was if there was a particularly lively crowd watching the football match that night. If there'd been two people in a car wreck, I don't know what he'd do.
 
2012-07-21 12:33:22 AM
Gyrfalcon: If the ER was on diversion, why did the medics bring her there anyway? Also, if all she needed was an IV to get her stabilized, what kind of lame-ass medics do they have in Britain who can't even start a line on a baby?

Or did the family just call an "ambulance service" which is no better than a taxi with sirens?


A hospital can be on diversion all it wants. If a Paramedic believes that the only way their patient will continue to live is getting them to the closest facility for immediate care - like a surgical airway - then they will.

In the US, on the other hand, there's this wonderful law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, which states that once I'm within 100 yards of your facility, fark you, I'm coming there and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
 
2012-07-21 12:34:25 AM
One less brat in the mall's Santa line. Besides, now she's sitting in Jesus' lap or some shiat.
 
2012-07-21 12:34:56 AM
Socialized Medicine that's not in effect till 2014 at work, peoples.
 
2012-07-21 12:35:09 AM

MAYORBOB: Typical Tea Party Farkster: Must. Find. Way. To. Blame. Obama.


Good point. Obama should have converted the UK into capitalist government instead of copying a failed form of government.

/You brought that bit of insanity on yourself
 
2012-07-21 12:35:23 AM

Marcus Aurelius: The important lesson to take away here is that socialized medicine will kill all the babies.


Chameleon: SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!! BOOGA BOOGA!!


go away please.
 
2012-07-21 12:37:01 AM
If you really think private insurance these days is any better for most people in this country than socialized medicine is in other countries, I pity you. It's a pretty crappy place to make a poltical argument but at least make coherent ones if you're going to sink that low.

Like others said, something like this can easily happen here with or without socialized medicine.
 
2012-07-21 12:37:02 AM

Sim Tree: As much as I want to feel sorry for her, hospital emergency rooms must treat the sickest patients first.


It's called triage if I remember my MASH episodes correctly.

I had a similar problem with a vet once when my dog was hit by a car. I was working in the yard, all sweaty and gross, and had the dog's blood all over me when I carried her into the closest vet right down the road. They asked my If I would take my "problem" to another vet, and even gave me a few names and directions.

I remember screaming in the full waiting room, "My dog is dying and you are giving me a farking referral?"
"Sir, you don't need to use that kind of language."

Next vet was awesome, dog survived and lived another 10 years, dying of old age.

/Found out later that the office manager, since I looked like a homeless person at the time, thought I would not have the cash to pay for any services.

//Reported those assholes to the BBA, the state board, wrote letters to the local newspaper, etc.

///20 years later and I am still pissed.

////Not the same as a kid, but I get it.
 
2012-07-21 12:37:22 AM

criscodisco: I'm not really sure what any of you guys are talking about, when we should really be discussing the dad's unibrow. It's what's really important in this article.


Here, here!
 
2012-07-21 12:38:04 AM
WizardofToast: Socialized Medicine that's not in effect till 2014 at work, peoples.

That wouldn't happen in the US anyway, thanks to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, and the Anti-Dumping Statutes which were enacted in the 1960s and 70s due to the glorious practice of telling people who couldn't pay to piss off and die in the parking lot.
 
2012-07-21 12:38:12 AM
Has anyone parroted the ZOMG SOSHELIZED MEDECIN!!!1! talking point yet?
 
2012-07-21 12:38:54 AM

Gyrfalcon: If the ER was on diversion, why did the medics bring her there anyway? Also, if all she needed was an IV to get her stabilized, what kind of lame-ass medics do they have in Britain who can't even start a line on a baby?

Or did the family just call an "ambulance service" which is no better than a taxi with sirens?


They didn't take her there. They were told not to go to the first hospital and divert to the second hospital. Twice. By the pediatric ward and by the emergency ward. The family lived very close to the first hospital so the dad is just conjecturing that if the ambulance had been permitted to take the baby there instead of being diverted she would still be alive.
 
2012-07-21 12:39:27 AM

Gyrfalcon: If the ER was on diversion, why did the medics bring her there anyway?


they didn't. they contacted the hospital on the way and were told to divert.
 
2012-07-21 12:41:37 AM

boomm: Before socialized public health programs, people died because there were not procedures in place or any help.

After socialized public health programs, people will die because there are not procedures in place or any help -- but at least there will be more people to blame.


THIS
 
2012-07-21 12:44:28 AM
Thank God you can still get treatment and care to at least get you ready to transport to another hospital in the USA. This is what socialized medicine will bring to us. Thanks Mr. Obama and the US congress...
 
2012-07-21 12:44:55 AM
I was told the United States has the worst healthcare in the world and everyone else on the globe has a perfect healthcare system.
 
2012-07-21 12:44:58 AM
This is a small fark up with a huge and tragic consequence. No system is perfect, however this kind of thing is mercifully rare enough to be national news.

Link

Link

Link
 
2012-07-21 12:45:48 AM
I lived for several years in London, and had a few experiences with the Nationa Health Service during that time. It sucked in the 1980's and is reputed to be far, far worse today. Yes, I even went to see a dentist there. So young, and so foolish of me to have done that.

Take any lessons (from my experinces) for America's future that you wish. It can be argued both ways.

/Sure miss living there.
 
2012-07-21 12:49:11 AM

King Something: Has anyone parroted the ZOMG SOSHELIZED MEDECIN!!!1! talking point yet?


This is more of a ZOMG GUNZZZ11!!11 day.
 
2012-07-21 12:49:44 AM

Gyrfalcon: Also, if all she needed was an IV to get her stabilized, what kind of lame-ass medics do they have in Britain who can't even start a line on a baby?


Yeah, I'm about sixty percent sure I could do that just from seeing it done on TV.
 
2012-07-21 12:50:40 AM
FTA:
Both West Midlands Ambulance Service and the Mid Staffordshire trust said it was impossible to say whether admitting Holly to Stafford Hospital would have made a difference.

and

In a statement, Mid Staffordshire trust said: "When contacted by the West Midlands ambulance crew, our paediatric ward told the crew that they were unable to accept the baby because they did not have the capacity in the ward and were already dealing with an emergency."

There was already an emergency and they didn't have enough doctors in the first place. This is a tragic case of wrong place and wrong time.
 
2012-07-21 12:53:55 AM

Sim Tree: As much as I want to feel sorry for her, hospital emergency rooms must treat the sickest patients first.


Pretty sure not breathing qualifies as sickest patients first. Hell call in the ob/gyn if they have enough medical training.
 
2012-07-21 12:54:18 AM
For those who DNRTFA ....

- the nearby ER was closed as a scheduled matter, it's not a 24 hr facility as they don't have enough staff, and the paramedics knew this
- the paramedics asked if they could go there anyway and take the baby to the children's ward
- normally, that would have been acceptable, but that department already had their hands full with another emergency
- it took them nearly an hour to get her to the primary regional ER 20 miles away

As with a commercial plane crash, there were multiple problems here
 
2012-07-21 12:55:04 AM

Aphostile: If you really think private insurance these days is any better for most people in this country than socialized medicine is in other countries, I pity you. It's a pretty crappy place to make a poltical argument but at least make coherent ones if you're going to sink that low.

Like others said, something like this can easily happen here with or without socialized medicine.


It happened here with HMOs.
 
2012-07-21 12:56:22 AM

astouffer: Sim Tree: As much as I want to feel sorry for her, hospital emergency rooms must treat the sickest patients first.

Pretty sure not breathing qualifies as sickest patients first. Hell call in the ob/gyn if they have enough medical training.


If the baby was not breathing, it would have been dead by the time the paramedics got to the house.
 
2012-07-21 12:57:47 AM

criscodisco: I'm not really sure what any of you guys are talking about, when we should really be discussing the dad's unibrow. It's what's really important in this article.


Goog gawddamn
 
2012-07-21 12:57:48 AM

ParaHandy: astouffer: Sim Tree: As much as I want to feel sorry for her, hospital emergency rooms must treat the sickest patients first.

Pretty sure not breathing qualifies as sickest patients first. Hell call in the ob/gyn if they have enough medical training.

If the baby was not breathing, it would have been dead by the time the paramedics got to the house.


Considering the baby died less than half an hour later, I think they could've admitted her.
 
2012-07-21 12:58:19 AM

Marcus Aurelius: The important lesson to take away here is that socialized medicine will kill all the babies.


Whaargarble in two.
 
2012-07-21 12:58:32 AM

diaphoresis: Exceptionally sad. If this was in the U.S. (at least for now), lawyers would have been called on the way to the other hospital. I hope the hospital is found negligent and appropriate personnel fired.

Yeah, I read the article, but I'm concentrating on the hospital's responsibility, rather than a panicked set of parent's inablility to convey how important the situation was.


files.g4tv.com

As a pediatric resident that has been stuck in the same situation, I swear that most of these scenarios are harshly misjudged. They don't specify what the cause of death was.... it just kind of implies that he died of hypovolemic shock (implying that simple IV fluids would have been enough). Was the baby a victim of SIDS? ALTE? Airway obstruction? Meningitis? Pneumonia? Head trauma? it is easy for the newspapers to imply that the doctors or the hospital were to blame, but seriously, if you do not have personnel to take care of the child, it is better to divert. Paramedics are competent health providers in scenarios like these. It's not like they cant do CPR or canalize the patient if bad comes to worse. The kiddo had a better chance to live by diverting vs. admitting.

Since he died on the way, it is easy to retroactively say that his chances were better if he wouldn't have been diverted. but you know...... hindsight is a biatch.

encrypted-tbn1.google.com

While the Hospital might have been negligent here (for some reason not stated), the article is irresponsible by implying that the hospital WAS negligent, even though all the evidence given states that appropriate protocol was given and that the child would have gotten sub-standard care if he would have been admitted.
 
2012-07-21 01:00:17 AM

JRoo: I was told the United States has the worst healthcare in the world and everyone else on the globe has a perfect healthcare system.


...said no one, ever.
 
2012-07-21 01:02:25 AM

BronyMedic: WizardofToast: Socialized Medicine that's not in effect till 2014 at work, peoples.

That wouldn't happen in the US anyway, thanks to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, and the Anti-Dumping Statutes which were enacted in the 1960s and 70s due to the glorious practice of telling people who couldn't pay to piss off and die in the parking lot.


Indeed not ... now in the US when an ER is busy you get to wait in the waiting room for as long as you want, while they treat illegal immigrants kids' runny noses.

There is a reason the US is the only country* with this kind of advertising:

1stteamllc.com

* well, Canada I suppose
 
2012-07-21 01:03:05 AM

hbk72777: Chameleon: SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!! BOOGA BOOGA!!

Well that just a well thought out post right there.


About as well thought out as WHaarrrgaarbbll DERTH PANELZ DERPITYDOOELEVNTY
 
2012-07-21 01:03:43 AM

I_Hate_Iowa: JRoo: I was told the United States has the worst healthcare in the world and everyone else on the globe has a perfect healthcare system.

...said no one, ever.


The leprechaun in his head told him.
 
2012-07-21 01:04:13 AM

DrFuko: diaphoresis: Exceptionally sad. If this was in the U.S. (at least for now), lawyers would have been called on the way to the other hospital. I hope the hospital is found negligent and appropriate personnel fired.

Yeah, I read the article, but I'm concentrating on the hospital's responsibility, rather than a panicked set of parent's inablility to convey how important the situation was.

[files.g4tv.com image 550x404]

As a pediatric resident that has been stuck in the same situation, I swear that most of these scenarios are harshly misjudged. They don't specify what the cause of death was.... it just kind of implies that he died of hypovolemic shock (implying that simple IV fluids would have been enough). Was the baby a victim of SIDS? ALTE? Airway obstruction? Meningitis? Pneumonia? Head trauma? it is easy for the newspapers to imply that the doctors or the hospital were to blame, but seriously, if you do not have personnel to take care of the child, it is better to divert. Paramedics are competent health providers in scenarios like these. It's not like they cant do CPR or canalize the patient if bad comes to worse. The kiddo had a better chance to live by diverting vs. admitting.

Since he died on the way, it is easy to retroactively say that his chances were better if he wouldn't have been diverted. but you know...... hindsight is a biatch.

[encrypted-tbn1.google.com image 259x194]

While the Hospital might have been negligent here (for some reason not stated), the article is irresponsible by implying that the hospital WAS negligent, even though all the evidence given states that appropriate protocol was given and that the child would have gotten sub-standard care if he would have been admitted.


www.majhost.com
 
2012-07-21 01:07:41 AM
Sux, I'd still be drunk - hell I'd likely be drunk for the next six months
 
2012-07-21 01:17:42 AM
ParaHandy: Indeed not ... now in the US when an ER is busy you get to wait in the waiting room for as long as you want, while they treat illegal immigrants kids' runny noses.

Excuse me while I laugh at you.

No. Really. I'm laughing at you, right now.

http://www.ahrq.gov/research/esi/esi6.htm

ESI Level 1
ESI level-1 patients are the highest acuity patients that present to the ED. Because ESI level -1 patients are clinically unstable, decisions on resources needed during the ED stay are not considered. These patients require a physician and a nurse at the bedside to provide life-saving critical care interventions. They cannot wait, even a brief time, for initiation of treatment.


The patient, in this case, would go right back, before those "immigrant kids with runny noses", who would rate an ESI of 5.

/If you're going to pundit, atleast know what you're talking about before you pundit.
 
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