doglover: None of the students did anything to aid or were even aware of this cover up. It all happened ages ago, and the people you want to punish are dead and already in jail for life. Nothing you do now to the University will hit the people who caused your emotional hurt. It would be like the USAF bombing Tokyo again tomorrow because of what happened at Pearl Harbor.
sigdiamond2000: Yep, nevar forget who the true victims are here:
doglover: WTF Indeed: The My Little Pony Killer: Wrong. Canceling the program removes the institution that was working so hard to cover up the child abuse in the first place. The entire town is incredibly tied into the football program. They're all crying that they'll suffer. Cut the ties, let them fall, and then allow them the space that they need in order to build themselves back up- SANS the close ties to the football program.Have you ever been to State College? Or are you judging what PSU is on your frame of reference which is football?He obviously doesn't know the layout of the campus, let alone the economics or the spirit of the law.Basically it's just a bunch of people who are angry with no outlet. Kids got molested. BY SANDUSKY. Go to jail, haul him out, string him up. Oh wait, that would make sense and also be illegal. Joe Pa and Spanier covered it up. Let's get them! Oh wait, one's dead and the other's gone pecan. Finding him woul be work.Oh, I know! Let's punish the students and alumni with draconian punishments that would only affect people who couldn't possibly have been involved in any way shape or form. Yeah, that's the ticket.
WTF Indeed: The My Little Pony Killer: The administration that helped cover it up.Is no longer there. So punishing the school now is the same as firing someone than punishing his replacement for former employees crimes.The My Little Pony Killer: Why are you so against the right people being punished here?How does canceling the football program punish the AG for not arresting Sandusky in 2005 when he knew he was molesting kids?
WTF Indeed: sigdiamond2000: Yep, nevar forget who the true victims are here:The kids who got abused?The question you need to ask yourself is who are villains? Could the villains be JoePa, the president of the school, the board of trustees, the local police who refused to arrest Sandusky for a decade, the DA who refused to charge him in 2000, the AG of PA, now governor, who knew that Sandusky was raping kids but did nothing to stop it because Sandusky and the members of the Second Mile Club were large GOP donors and the party wanted to win the 2010 elections?
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: What are you talking about? First of all, I have no power to punish the truly guilty. Second, fine. Let's investigate Corbett and put him in jail, too. When did I say that I wanted the punishment to end after the death penalty and the statue being removed forever?By punishing the students and business in the town for a crime they did not commit you are wronging them. The entire town should not suffer for the crimes of a few of it's citizens.
IAmRight: Di Atribe: send the message that this type of behavior will not be tolerated & they won't look the other wayI guess being fired, vilified throughout the nation and potentially jailed isn't a deterrent, but taking away a football program would stop people from covering things up. Because threat of sanctions against a football program has prevented coaches and administrators from doing other unethical things that are within the NCAA's scope of control.
WTF Indeed: That's not enough. They need to tear the school down, brick by brick. It's the only way to make sure that the students who had no knowledge of the crimes are made to suffer for the few administrators that did.
WhyteRaven74: BTW Penn State is likely going to have some explicit NCAA violations to answer for too. Like how football players have been treated different when it comes to discipline than any other students. That's not allowed by NCAA rules, and the Freeh report supplied evidence of it. And it wasn't this one guy or these guys, it was the team, season after season. And the AD and others knew about this.
geom_00: I have voiced this before: What would be the economic impact of the small towns around PSU if they would not play football? I am NOT saying play or not play. I am just asking.
I had Snu Snu: birchman: I had Snu Snu: Also, the B1G could remove just PSU football and keep the other sports. It's not without precedence, but then we're back to your whole all-or-nothing approach.So how is that "not about football"? Please, lead my simplistic mind down this trail of enlightenment.I said that the coverup wasn't done to gain anything tangible "football-wise" and was instead Joe covering up for a friend because Sandusky hasn't been part of the program since 1999. In an indirect way the argument could be made that because recruits didn't know he was a pedophile that was advantageous but that seems to be a stretch.tl;dr - You're not making sense.Unless you can define what "not about football" pertains to or could point me towards what I said that you keep referencing.
I had Snu Snu: If you think the fanbase of that school is nuts now, what do you think they will be like if you take away the entire program?
I had Snu Snu: I would be first in line to tear down the statue if it was possible and I hope him and (hopefully very very soon) Jerry are rotting and burning in the deepest and darkest depths of hell along with anybody who could have done anything to stop their actions. I don't care about his records because I've always thought that was an impotent punishment in every case. That doesn't mean nuking the entire program just to make ourselves feel better. Justice is more complicated than that.
Millennium: gimmegimme: sethstorm: you have pee hands: Eh. They'll be allowed to transfer to somewhere where people won't come to their games dressed as PedobearDisruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.Seriously. Freedom of speech sucks.Freedom of speech doesn't actually give you the right to be disruptive or destructive, nor to commit sabotage. This is something a lot of protesters forget: speech cannot be criminal, but the way you go about it (or what you try to do with it) certainly can be.
I had Snu Snu: I really don't understand what cancelling the football program will accomplish.
I had Snu Snu: I really don't understand what cancelling the football program will accomplish. Is this punishment to make sure something like this never happens again or is it just revenge for one of the most terrible and disgusting and despicable acts to occur in recent memory? Of course things need to change but what does taking away football change? It will make things worse and polarize this issue even further and will have more and more people screaming that they're victims.The beautiful thing about sports is that they can make us forget about all the awful shiat in the world, even if only for a little bit. Sports bring us together. If handled properly the PSU football team can help ease this situation and IMO they've gotten off to a pretty good start by changing the entire leadership structure and getting ride of all the "good ole boys" that ran the program for so long. The statue should come down no questions asked, Penn State should probably be kicked out of the B1G but eliminating the football program will only make a bad situation worse. Sandusky is going to die in prison, JoePa is dead, everybody else that had ever heard of this scandal/coverup should be locked away for as long as is allowable under the laws of the state of Pennsylvania but going after the whole football program just reeks of revenge.If Jerry Sandusky was a Physics teacher and Joe was the dean of the science dept. would people be yelling for the entire science program to be shut down? No, because it wouldn't make any sense and would accomplish absolutely nothing.
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: Why didn't you answer the question I posed after answering yours?Because you are assuming that I believe God controls all aspects of mankind, when in reality the Bible shows us that He doesn't.Now, will you also admit that the canceling of the football program would most directly affect the students on the football team?
Millennium: FriarReb98: This. We are going to go through a round of ITG vs White Knights every single time we have this thread, but it doesn't change anything. It doesn't undo Sandusky's deeds, doesn't change the environment of a small town with a national football program, doesn't make society change one bit. Until the entire society of college football changes, it won't do anything.Precisely. Taking down the statue is an important step toward that goal.But killing the program isn't the answer, either.Yes, actually, it is. In places that have shown they cannot be trusted with football, the answer is to take away football for a time, let them rebuild their culture without it, and then -when football no longer has the central place that makes this form of societal corruption possible- reintroduce it.
TheYeti: Weaver95: good. it's a step in the right direction, an indication that the administration is starting to understand that protecting the Paterno cult is a bad thing to do.Agreed. If they are smart the next step will be a voluntary one year suspension of the football program.
thomps: but i guess if you are going to go down that road you have to ask yourself: once the head and coach are both removed from the hospital in shackles, do you tear down the hospital or hire new people with the moral fiber not to stomp babies?
IAmRight: Weaver95: I've always wanted to ask you folks a question: how much pedophile/rape is too much?I'll answer it when you answer whether or not you've stopped beating your wife and stomping on newborn babies in order to get yourself off yet.
WTF Indeed: Krymson Tyde: There's plenty of blame to go around, including, but not limited to the football program.Who is more to blame. The football program or the people who actively did nothing while children were being raped because reporting it would hurt them. The college admins didn't report it because it would hurt the school, the police and DA didn't report it for the same reason. The AG didn't do anything about it because he needed money to fund the GOP.I don't give a shiat about football, but canceling the football program doesn't punish anyone that should be rightly punished. It only makes radio show hosts feel good.
GoldSpider: It's because in this case the players weren't involved with the scandal.
I had Snu Snu: Millennium: Joe's martyrdom is fading, as people come to their senses about himMillennium: The continued prevalence of Paterno-apologists proves it.Soooooo, which is it?Honest question: Do you think you can really change the culture of that community just by taking away the football team for a few years? Wouldn't actually changing the culture be more effective at changing the culture? Like they've done and been doing?
GoldSpider: tlchwi02: What is the monetary/penalty worth of a raped child in your system?Framing the debate around what a child's innocence is "worth" makes rational discussion of the fallout here impossible.
tlchwi02: I had Snu Snu: How many other ways can I say that they deserve some incredibly harsh penalties? I have never once said otherwise, that doesn't mean that i think they should lose the entire program though. Again, do you want revenge or do you want justice and for things to change for the better? If you just want revenge and to cause more negativity than by all means take away their program.then what sort of penalty do they "deserve"? you say that children getting raped doesn't "justify" having the program suspended. If 9+ children getting raped because of the football program doesn't "justify" the program being suspended, what does? What is the monetary/penalty worth of a raped child in your system?
GoldSpider: o5iiawah: I find it hard to swallow that a program can get a bowl ban or the death penalty for boosters giving benefits to players but an institutional wide cover up of child rape is met with responses like: "Dont punish the players!"It's because in this case the players weren't involved with the scandal.I think something needs to happen to the football program, but they need to be fair to the players who had nothing to do with this. Allow them to transfer to other schools and retain any scholarships they were given. I don't think that's unreasonable.
o5iiawah: I find it hard to swallow that a program can get a bowl ban or the death penalty for boosters giving benefits to players but an institutional wide cover up of child rape is met with responses like: "Dont punish the players!"
IlGreven: No Penn State defender directly defended child rape. They might ignore the cognitive dissonance that applies in defending an enabler of someone who rapes children, but they don't directly defend child rape in the same way FAMU defenders defend hazing.
geom_00: I have voiced this before: What would be the economic impact of the small towns around PSU if they would not play football?
doglover: Because, you don't take out your emotional rage at a crime on people who didn't do anything wrong. That's what chimpanzees do. That's what feral dogs do.
I had Snu Snu: If you think turning him into more a martyr is the answer to that problem then I guess that's your opinion but it doesn't make much sense.
I had Snu Snu: Dude, I have said it dozens of times in this thread. I'm all for some serious shiat happening to them, I don't know what that might entail but it needs to go down.
I had Snu Snu: The pressure is on them to show the rest of the world that the pall that is hanging over their program was the doing of a few powerdrunk sociopaths and not something that will define them as a community. As a fan of humanity I really hope they do so.
I had Snu Snu: AliceBToklasLives: I had Snu Snu: bloodlustSuggesting that maybe the football team should spend some time in the penalty box is "bloodlust"?/it's just football//duhWhat does it accomplish? How does it make anything any better?
I had Snu Snu: Weaver95: yup. all of 'em. they all knew something was wrong. They didn't ask questions tho. everyone just sat down, STFU and did what Paterno told them to do. He ran the show, he was the Big Boss....anyone who said different, paid a price for it. So yeah, they all knew something bad was going on and they didn't bother trying to find out what was going on.[faqsmedia.ign.com image 363x310]Prove to me that they "ALL" knew something was going on. Just step back and let the emotion subside and think critically for a moment. I know it's hard because of how awful these crimes were but do you just want punishment or do you want things to actually change?
I had Snu Snu: Weaver95: doglover: Moral of the story: The mob prefers innocent blood.I find this attitude puzzling. NOBODY in the PSU football program is 'innocent'. they all looked the other way and/or pretended nothing was wrong with the organization.Who is this "all"? The entire program knew what was going on and helped cover it up? Every single person? That's almost as bad as when all the Muslims attacked us on 9/11. amirite? Extremes are fun!
doglover: Moral of the story: The mob prefers innocent blood.
I had Snu Snu: bloodlust
Carousel Beast: Specific people committed specific crimes, and they need to be dealt with specifically. What you propose, sir or madam, is neither rational nor just.
I had Snu Snu: birchman: I had Snu Snu: birchman: So why are you OK with the B1G kicking them out, but not with the NCAA not allowing them to play for a couple years? If it has nothing to do with football, why is one OK and not the other?Because the two are totally different? The B1G isn't telling them that they can't play football, just that they have to find another conference or go back to being independent. They aren't telling them to take a few years off. That's like saying what's the difference between getting fired and going to jail. The two aren't really on the same level at all.What would be the B1G's reason for kicking them out?Are you trolling, stupid, or just not paying attention? There is a HUGE difference between being kicked out of a conference and being told you can't play football for a few seasons. Why is this such a hard concept to understand? I NEVER said that they shouldn't be punished. I've already said I don't have all the answers (the horror!) However, just because they deserve some very serious punishment doesn't mean they deserve the death penalty. The options aren't Death Penalty or nothing. It's a hard concept but just try to keep up. This topic might be a little over your head champ.Either way I'm done with you because you're either intentionally being ignorant or aren't capable of having a real debate. Have a nice evening.
mikaloyd: I had Snu Snu: They were independent for years, it would hurt them to go back but wouldn't kill them. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I really truly believe the death penalty to be counterproductive.You think the death penalty would cause even more kids to get raped at Penn State with longer more involved instituionalizes coverups to protect the football program? Or are you talking about some other less important goal which the death penalty might not help?
I had Snu Snu: They were independent for years, it would hurt them to go back but wouldn't kill them. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I really truly believe the death penalty to be counterproductive. I do know that a good start would be to take down the damn statue and moving forward into a Paterno-less era of Penn State Football. They've already replaced the whole staff and everybody that had any knowledge (or should have had knowledge) of what was going on. I think the fact that Joe lost his job over this is enough to deter most anybody from trying to pull anything like this again because if can bring down somebody like JoePa than what chance does anybody else have of surviving a scandal like this?
I had Snu Snu: birchman: I had Snu Snu: Also, just because I agree that it was awful doesn't mean that I think the entire program should be killed. That's the easy way out and doesn't really solve any problems.I disagree. It sends a strong message to other programs that they aren't invincible and better not tolerate this sort of thing. It definitely serves a purpose. It also sends a very strong message by not killing the program that they can pretty much get away with murder as long as they have a fall guy. Quit with the sympathy for their program, they don't deserve it.Don't we have the death penalty in this country to serve as a deterrent to murdering other people? How is that working out for us? It's still possible to move forward in a healthy and positive way without scrapping the program, even temporarily. It's not so much sympathy as it is common sense. Taking a few years off accomplishes absolutely nothing but further ties JoePa and that program together instead of moving forward under the leadership of somebody totally new to the program and progressing instead of dwelling on what happened in the past by people who aren't around any more.I'm not saying the program should get off totally free either. I want to clarify that. I want them kicked out of the B1G immediately and should be under the strictest supervision ever devised by man but to put the program on the shelf will only serve to make things much much worse and harder to move forward.
I had Snu Snu: PowerSlacker: I had Snu Snu: Sandusky hasn't been there for 13 years now, so how was this about football? This was more about Joe covering for a friend.Sandusky was still a guest of the program and used the football facilities as a location for raping children.Try again.So again, how did this coverup benefit the team? He had no input towards the team and wasn't a part of recruiting, game planning, practice, etc.
I had Snu Snu: Also, just because I agree that it was awful doesn't mean that I think the entire program should be killed. That's the easy way out and doesn't really solve any problems.
birchman: I lost my sympathy for them when I found out they were harassing the victims to the point of them having to go into protective custody. Was it everyone? No. Sometimes life isn't fair. I know several people who lost their livelihoods because of some asshole bankers on Wall Street a few years ago. shiat happens. If the NCAA doesn't think this is deserving of a program suspension I'd be curious what they think IS. Maybe they should have had Sandusky bring a boy out and rape him on the 50-yard line during a halftime show in front of everyone. Would that have been enough? Yes, that was really disturbing what I just typed. I want you to think about it again and then continue to downplay what they were covering up. How much child rape is enough for a program suspension? That's the only question I want you to answer.
I had Snu Snu: birchman: I had Snu Snu: PowerSlacker: Deflect all you want, but the coverup was clearly done for football reasons.That's true to an extent but most of it was because Joe was trying to cover up for his friend and the rest of them just went along with Joe. If it was just about football then the second that Sandusky was out the door when he retired Joe would have gone to the NCAA.lol wut?Sandusky hasn't been there for 13 years now, so how was this about football? This was more about Joe covering for a friend.
I had Snu Snu: Magorn: The rank and file partner at Arthur Anderson was an honest, hard-working accountant who thought they had a job for life and never did anything wrong. But people at the top of Arthur Andersen did some VERY wrong things and allowed the Enron scandal to happen. The company DESERVED the "death penalty" it got, even if that meant that thousands of "innocent" workers were sudden on the street with no jobsAnd that seems right to you? You don't have even the slightest problem with that many people totally losing their livelihood? Just to send a message? Jesus Farking Christ, how do you live with yourself? I really hope this is a troll, or at least some ITG trying to sound hard because nobody can be that callous and uncaring can they?
YouWinAgainGravity: Another such choice or view would be, the NCAA could and probably should step in in regards to the findings that Paterno interfered in player discipline. I can see the argument that the NCAA might have jurisdiction over the cover-up since Sandusky was a football coach, though several legal experts have said it's questionable whether they do or not. If they did though, Penn State wouldn't really fall under the "repeat offender" status that is required for the 'death penalty' under their bylaws. I'm all for the civil lawsuits against the university and individuals involved, and criminal charges.
sethstorm: groppet: and salt the earthThen make sure that the people that salted the earth suffer as well, and then repeat with the people that made the people suffer for salting the earth.
Millennium: Only if the death penalty is too short. That's why I recommended six years: give them time to cool down, and time for the students under whom the death penalty began time to graduate and get out of Dodge.
sethstorm: Suicide is bad, 'mmkay?
sethstorm: That just confirms you're not interested in justice and simply interested in bloodlust against Penn State.
sethstorm: So sanity has a chance to prevail
sethstorm: Like Sandusky. 'Remove his crimes from history' you said yourself. His worst crime was getting caught and shaming Great Leader Saint Joe.
birchman: Considering that the first victim had to be put into protective custody because of the harassment he was getting from the civillian community, that did it for me. This wasn't just a few guys in PSU, this was a culture, a cult. Maybe not a criminally liable one, but a culture that contributed to this cover-up happening. And this sort of culture exists elsewhere, where football is EVERYTHING, meaning it's very plausible it could happen again unless fear of complete loss is created.I'm sorry if there is going to be collateral damage here, but the men involved knew there would be if they were caught, and the NCAA has to make an example of them in my opinion.
born_yesterday: You mean they haven't talked to sethstorm?
YouWinAgainGravity: birchman: I more or less felt the same way until I read this. Nuke it.I understand why people are mad and where the 'nuke it from orbit' reactions are coming from. It's easy to get caught up in the emotions over everything that happened. But after cooling off and reading some of the thoughts from people who say "let's not destroy them just yet" (not talking about true JoePa defenders), I'm on the side of the constructive punishment approach.
downstairs: gimmegimme: Was the gentleman who was wearing the pedobear costume to the bowl game acting in an obscene manner or disrupting the game or committing any other offense for which he SHOULD have been ejected by simply wearing the costume? (We both seem like reasonable folks. If a pedo bear guy ran on the field, then fine--boot him out. If pedo bear throws fireworks on the field--boot him out.)Well, let me start out and say I think its lame to kick him out. I am against such an action. Its a gutless action to not be able to face criticism... whether its a front row heckler giving it to Lebron James for not being able to perform for more than 3 quarters, or whether its a snarky costume pointing out that Penn State covered up for pedos.I'm just saying its within their rights to kick him out.
sethstorm: gimmegimme: What is your line of reasoning? And please answer the question I asked you before with all of the images. Which of those disruptive fans should have been ejected. Including some fans who actually touched a player.The problem is that you forgot the context in all of them.
YouWinAgainGravity: Shutting down the football program really accomplishes nothing at this point. I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Nick Saban's idea, have the football program instead donate its profits to charities and organizations that help kids for the next few years. The people who were involved in the coverup are gone and hopefully the legal system takes care of all of them. Instead of some thermonuclear approach that does cause punish a lot of people that weren't involved, find a constructive way to punish the football program.
sethstorm: birchman: If there is a hell, I sleep better at night knowing he's there.Except he isn't.
downstairs: gimmegimme: sethstorm: gimmegimme: sethstorm: you have pee hands: Eh. They'll be allowed to transfer to somewhere where people won't come to their games dressed as PedobearDisruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.Seriously. Freedom of speech sucks.Except that it doesn't apply in that venue.Untrue. It's a matter of degrees. It's extremely subjective.LinkNo. Just because something is "publically funded" (and schools are only partially)... they're still private entities. And they can make whatever rules they want as to how people act in them.
birchman: Oh look, another PSU thread, more child-rape apologists. You're going where Jo-Pa already is.
sethstorm: They will not listen to reason, nor will any amount of blood be enough to satiate their hunger.
I had Snu Snu: gimmegimme: I agree. Jim Tressel and Terrelle Pryor are gone. Why does Ohio State have the bowl ban? W is no longer President...why are some Iraqis still mad at us?Did you even read what I said? I didn't say they should get off the hook without anything happening. I just don't see how taking away the football team will do anything except make the situation worse. Do you see how worked up some people are getting over a stupid statue of somebody directly involved in the coverup? How do you think those people would act if you took away the entire program? The only thing about the culture that would change is much more anger and more of an "us vs. them" mentality with more secrets. It may feel good to get revenge on the "bad guys" but it does nothing to change the culture or to improve the situation in the slightest. Again, if all you want is blood then just admit it but don't act like this is anything but that.
I had Snu Snu: I just don't see how taking away the football team will do anything except make the situation worse.
I had Snu Snu: This situation already sucks and is a living nightmare for everybody involved, don't make it worse.
sethstorm: I had Snu Snu: Do you really think that just by removing the football program it will make everything magically better? Not a chance in hell buddy, it will come back even bigger and with more of an "us vs. them" mentality amongst the fanbase. How are you planning to "rebuild" the entire program? They've already changed all the coaches with people that had no previous ties to the program and got rid of the AD. What else can they realistically do? This is becoming a witch hunt and people are just out for blood at this point.SO MUCH FARKING THIS.They will not listen to reason, nor will any amount of blood be enough to satiate their hunger.
sethstorm: gimmegimme:Security would be used to eject them from the arena. They would be free to not disrupt the game.factoryconnection: Removing the statue is "unjust?" Greatness is a measure achieved over a lifetimeThen replace the words of "integrity..." with the record of the team. However, it would not be enough for people rabid enough to call for PSU to be nuked from orbit..
I had Snu Snu: Do you really think that just by removing the football program it will make everything magically better? .
I had Snu Snu: Weaver95: I had Snu Snu: I really don't understand what cancelling the football program will accomplish.it's the only way to make sure that PSU football's amoral culture of 'protect the football program at all costs' goes away. look - when we took over Japan at the end of WWII, we tore down their entire government and rebuilt it from the ground up. why? because we wanted to make sure that we wouldn't have to come back and bomb the crap outta them 20 years later. same thing with Penn State - we need to tear down their entire football program and rebuild it over the next 5-8 years so that we know beyond any possibility of doubt that we've changed their entire internal culture.Do you really think that just by removing the football program it will make everything magically better? Not a chance in hell buddy, it will come back even bigger and with more of an "us vs. them" mentality amongst the fanbase. How are you planning to "rebuild" the entire program? They've already changed all the coaches with people that had no previous ties to the program and got rid of the AD. What else can they realistically do? This is becoming a witch hunt and people are just out for blood at this point. If all you want is revenge that's fine, it's understandable, it's human nature. But be honest about it. Cancelling the football program will make this whole situation 10x worse in the long run and will only serve to turn JoePa and the rest of the previous administration into martyrs. They will go to even further lengths to keep everything in house, lest they get shut down again. It just doesn't make any sense to do so. The B1G should, and probably will, revoke their membership. The State of Pennsylvania should, and might, pull funding from the school for how everything was handled. This situation already sucks and is a living nightmare for everybody involved, don't make it worse.
Weaver95: sethstorm: factoryconnection: My dog is named "Paterno" and I'm saying it is time to dissociate my alma mater with someone that covered up for a serial child rapistSandusky was convicted, Paterno apologized for merely being third-party(at best), and a whole lot of people got fired to satisfy a rabid and unsatisfiable urge for vengeance.You're asking for the very same thing that Stalin has asked for in the past - erasing history to fit your desire.no, we're saying that there is more than sufficient evidence to show that the corruption within PSU football runs deep. corruption like that is difficult to root out without extreme measures....shut down PSU football, and rebuild the ENTIRE program from scratch.
sethstorm: Yet you ask for something that is not justice, which has already been carried out multiple times over.
sethstorm: gimmegimme: sethstorm: you have pee hands: Eh. They'll be allowed to transfer to somewhere where people won't come to their games dressed as PedobearDisruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.Seriously. Freedom of speech sucks.Except that it doesn't apply in that venue.
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: Your questions are silly. I am very sorry that there will be some unintentional unpleasantness for the many folks in the Penn State community who had nothing to do with the serial child rape. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. You and I are not allowed to buy ten packs of Sudafed at once because of crazy meth people. Too bad; shiat happens. I'm a Buckeye fan who was VERY angry with Terrelle Pryor and Jim Tressel and didn't spend months denying all of the shady stuff went down. Am I enduring some "pain" right now because of the actions of the few? Sure. Too bad. Shiat happens.The punishment for the crimes of Jim Tressel are being felt by those who did not commit the crimes. True justice was not done. All that was done to OSU, and what you are promoting for PSU, is to lay false blame and punishment on those who did nothing wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right.
sethstorm: The Freeh report says nothing not already known. It is merely an attempt to justify any subsequent historical revisionism.
Rapmaster2000: Leave it to educate your students on what happens when an organization turns a manager into a god.
gimmegimme: sethstorm: you have pee hands: Eh. They'll be allowed to transfer to somewhere where people won't come to their games dressed as PedobearDisruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.Seriously. Freedom of speech sucks.
scottydoesntknow: Follow-up: Dumbass students form human wall between bulldozer and statue.And they don't deserve the hero tag, they deserve the obvious tag, since it's obvious it needed to come down. The hero tag would've been warranted had they performed these actions the second they were brough to attention.
sethstorm: you have pee hands: Eh. They'll be allowed to transfer to somewhere where people won't come to their games dressed as PedobearDisruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.
Marisyana: Cancer didn't kill Joe Paterno. Getting fired did. When it first happened I said to my husband "he'll be dead in six months." Only took two. If only he could see that statue coming down so he could croak all over again. Or get busted for perjury. Saint JoePa in cuffs would have been an amazing sight.
Outrageous Muff: In my opinion anyone that thinks tearing down a statue will solve anything is as guilty as the Board of Trustees.
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: As far as I understand it, that is the case.Will you also admit that the canceling of the football program would most directly affect the students on the football team?
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: Your thought is less coherent than that interview Sandusky gave to Bob Costas.Will you admit that the students make up the football team? And that the current students had no direct knowledge of the rapes?
gimmegimme: Soooo....when Yahweh leveled Sodom and Gomorrah, lots of innocent people died. When Yahweh flooded the Earth and killed everyone but Noah's family, lots of innocent people died. Which is it? Do you agree with your deity that some punishment of the innocent is a necessity or do you believe that your deity is a monster for punishing so many innocents?
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: Soooo....when Yahweh leveled Sodom and Gomorrah, lots of innocent people died. When Yahweh flooded the Earth and killed everyone but Noah's family, lots of innocent people died. Which is it? Do you agree with your deity that some punishment of the innocent is a necessity or do you believe that your deity is a monster for punishing so many innocents?There you go again. Changing the topic away from your misplaced anger.
Weaver95: do you not understand the concept of 'corporate culture'? An organization can develop an internal culture that perpetuates it's values beyond the lifespan of any single individual. And what Paterno did to Penn State was to foster a poisonous culture that said 'protect the football program at all costs'. That has to change...and the only way to change it, is to significantly purge the football program
Marcus Aurelius: I can't wait to see the video!
Outrageous Muff: beta_plus: /because everyone felt so sorry for all those poor employees who had nothing to do w/Enron and WorldcomA true Christian would understand who is to blame and punish them accordingly. Lying false blame is a sin.
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: Who is saying that anyone who knew should go free? I have not read that the Board of Trustees knew about Sandusky. Am I simply uninformed?LinkYour anger over this statue and football team has masked your ability to punish the truly guilty.
Ricardo Klement: I heard they weren't tearing it down but moving it to the library where it can remind everyone to keep quiet.
protectyourlimbs: Being forced by public pressure to make a gesture that would show you can at least see what your university did might have been wrong even if it wasn't all together illegal should be an obvious tag but im guessing the submitter is a troll from PSU.
Outrageous Muff: gimmegimme: Did the Board of Trustees facilitate child rape for over a decade and ensure that the child rapist got a cash bonus?Anyone with knowledge of the situation and did nothing to stop it is as guilty as Paterno, and anyone that deters punish for those people are as guilty as them. You want your false Idol of college football destroyed? Fine, but that's not going to bring anyone to justice nor punish those guilty of sins. It will only fulfill the sin of Vanity for yourselves.The vain need for personal satisfaction in a matter you can control is a sin too.
Weaver95: So...all you PSU defenders....you all seem to repeat the same things: don't punish the students, Paterno is dead/let it go, PSU football brings in a lot of money....I've always wanted to ask you folks a question: how much pedophile/rape is too much? Because I'd really like to know where your limits are...see, to me - any amount of rape is evil. And pedophile rape is simply unacceptable under any/all circumstances. But you guys...you all seem ok with covering up a decade of pedo rape. so - what's the breaking point? how many lives destroyed? how many kids have to suffer before you say enough is enough?
doglover: These are the same people guarding the statue. There's a lot of pride in and around the university as a whole in PA.
Outrageous Muff: I am amazed at all the "cancel the football program!" people who claim to want justice but continue to distract the media from the real criminals here, the people who covered this up. They are protecting those who protected a CHILD MOLESTER. In my opinion anyone that thinks tearing down a statue will solve anything is as guilty as the Board of Trustees.
sweetmelissa31: doglover: Draconian is exactly what it is to hand out severe legal penalties to parties undeserving. He (the namesake of draconian laws) handed down death for everything from stealing to sloth.Draconian? You guys can like build your own shrine to Paterno in your dorm rooms or something.
Weaver95: good. it's a step in the right direction, an indication that the administration is starting to understand that protecting the Paterno cult is a bad thing to do.
gimmegimme: With climbing skills and a buddy to help you jump down?
doglover: Draconian is exactly what it is to hand out severe legal penalties to parties undeserving. He (the namesake of draconian laws) handed down death for everything from stealing to sloth.
tlchwi02: thomps: but i guess if you are going to go down that road you have to ask yourself: once the head and coach are both removed from the hospital in shackles, do you tear down the hospital or hire new people with the moral fiber not to stomp babies?a more apt comparison would be to stop delivering babies at that hospital. And yes, you might want to disband your maternity ward if it turns out one of the top doctors has been murdering the babies and you covered it up for decades to personally enrich yourself.in the end, Joe Paterno and the other implicated people covered up the rape of children so they could get rich. how anyone can possibly defend that is quite beyond me.
thomps: gimmegimme: IAmRight: Weaver95: I've always wanted to ask you folks a question: how much pedophile/rape is too much?I'll answer it when you answer whether or not you've stopped beating your wife and stomping on newborn babies in order to get yourself off yet.If you are the head of the hospital and you know the assistant birthing coach at your hospital is stomping on newborn babies and has been doing it for decades...do you call the cops? Or do you do the humane thing and give him a cash bonus and the right to use the maternity ward whenever he likes?but i guess if you are going to go down that road you have to ask yourself: once the head and coach are both removed from the hospital in shackles, do you tear down the hospital or hire new people with the moral fiber not to stomp babies?
thomps: Marcus Aurelius: The football program is already mostly dead. How many top high school prospects are going to consider Penn State now? Or next year? Or the year after that?The fork has already been stuck into that program. It's done for a decade at least.penn state currently has the #14 recruiting class in the nation according to rivals.com. almost all of whom have committed since joe pa was fired.
doglover: You know what? fark you, and fark Penn State. That whole farking town created a cult of personality that fostered this whole criminal conspiracy. The administrators and JoePa didn't cover up CHILD RAPE in a farking vacuum. The sickening behavior of the Penn State student population only reinforces that fact. They need to be beaten and whipped by the press and the NCAA, and the whole athletic department needs a multi-year ban from NCAA competition. People with athletic scholarships should be allowed to stay at Penn State with their original scholarship intact or be allowed to transfer to another program penalty-free.Your tact and decorum does wonders to support your logical and informed opinions.
doglover: Oh, I know! Let's punish the students and alumni with draconian punishments that would only affect people who couldn't possibly have been involved in any way shape or form. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Krymson Tyde: sigdiamond2000: They better get the riot police and National Guard ready.I hope ESPN or someone covers the removal/clash.
Krymson Tyde: There's plenty of blame to go around, including, but not limited to the football program.
WTF Indeed: The question you need to ask yourself is who are villains?
WTF Indeed: That's not enough. They need to tear the school down, brick by brick.
sigdiamond2000: They better get the riot police and National Guard ready.
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