birchman: Oh look, another PSU thread, more child-rape apologists. You're going where Jo-Pa already is.

Which is not where you think he's going.

downstairs: gimmegimme: sethstorm: gimmegimme: sethstorm: you have pee hands: Eh. They'll be allowed to transfer to somewhere where people won't come to their games dressed as Pedobear

Disruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.

Seriously. Freedom of speech sucks.

Except that it doesn't apply in that venue.

Untrue. It's a matter of degrees. It's extremely subjective.

Link

No. Just because something is "publically funded" (and schools are only partially)... they're still private entities. And they can make whatever rules they want as to how people act in them.

Link

gimmegimme: birchman: Oh look, another PSU thread, more child-rape apologists. You're going where Jo-Pa already is.

Isn't it lamentable that JoePa will never know what he and Penn State football currently stand for? It's a pity there's no hell for him to go to. I suppose the lesson is that you can be the worst person in the world, so long as no one finds out until you are almost dead.

If there is a hell, I sleep better at night knowing he's there.

Fark It: Oh wow. You've missed the point like JoePa missed the opportunity to stop child rape.

He admitted to his actions of being (at best) third-party. His part is done.

birchman: If there is a hell, I sleep better at night knowing he's there.

Except he isn't.

scottydoesntknow: Follow-up: Dumbass students form human wall between bulldozersocket wrench and statue.

There's no reason to destroy the statue. Just take it down and put it in storage for a hundred years.

Fark It: The entire town created and fostered the cult of personality that incubated Sandusky.

I can assure you that most people in State College would have been happy to string him up if they knew what was going on. Unfortunately, those who did know were cowards.

I am disgusted by the actions of all involved and especially disappointed in Paterno but I am getting very tired of the assertion that all 100,000 of us residents were involved in some elaborate cover-up for a child molester. That MFer Sandusky lived under a thousand feet from me and my step-son went to the elementary school adjacent to his house. I would give up all of the good times I've had with Penn State football to take away the pain his victims went through - and I assure you many other Penn Staters feel the same way.

For lack of a better phrase, Joe built Penn State. In 1966, the university was a small school with a half decent football team. In twenty years it became a football power and with that came money, increased enrollment, and more money. Joe having tremendous power and pull is unsurprising - he was instrumental in bringing over $1.3 billion to the university's Grand Destiny campaign and made Penn State what it is.

The control and influence of football over the university went to the grave with Joe. Are there still people left in administrative positions who might have known about Sandusky? Probably - they should be investigated and fired and/or prosecuted, if appropriate, and Spanier, Curley, Shultz, etc, should be prosecuted as well.

I really hope I don't come off as an apologist. I attended Penn State for a few years in the mid-90's and have lived in State College all my life. I was raised in the culture and admittedly held full judgement on Paterno until after the Freeh Report. But there's no question now - Joe actively chose not to do the right thing and enabled a very terrible person. The image we all had of him is not who he really was when faced with what should have been an easy decision.

Shutting down the football program really accomplishes nothing at this point. I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Nick Saban's idea, have the football program instead donate its profits to charities and organizations that help kids for the next few years. The people who were involved in the coverup are gone and hopefully the legal system takes care of all of them. Instead of some thermonuclear approach that does cause punish a lot of people that weren't involved, find a constructive way to punish the football program.

bronyaur1: derp.

So your only response to calling out your bloodlust against Penn State is to smear?

/epic_facepalm.jpg

sethstorm: birchman: If there is a hell, I sleep better at night knowing he's there.

Except he isn't.

I'd be upset too if I found out my idol was a child-rape enabler. It's OK, time will heal your wounds. In the meantime, try not to make such a huge ass out of yourself by defending what he did.

sethstorm: birchman: If there is a hell, I sleep better at night knowing he's there.

Except he isn't.

Sethstorm, can you please answer the question I posed with all of the examples of fan behavior?

From the Penn State bowl game just for fun:

bronyaur1: Listen, you kidrape defenders too damn dumb to get it... The EXACT farking reason this happened was the cult like worship of a football program. The EXACT correct response is to demolish that program so that even dolts like you begin to comprehend what YOU ARE DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALLOWING TO OCCUR.

It's nice how people who don't agree with you are dumb and kidrape defenders.

downstairs: Galloping Galoshes: Make football a vocational program, or better yet, make the football program a semi-professional team with a work-study program with the university. Let's just clear up the ambiguities a bit.

So much this. I've been saying this forever. I went to college for film and photography. I never got as far as making a feature film (something one would do as a masters thesis)... but those that did absolutely were allowed to profit from them.

Many first-time breakout films for directors were school projects.

Also, how is paying an athlete any different than paying a student to work in the dean's office organizing papers (many of my friends did such things for the school)?

Wouldn't that significantly change the school's liability? Not disagreeing, asking. For example, if you get a horrible injury as a "student-athlete-employee", would the school owe you Workman's Comp.?

YouWinAgainGravity: Shutting down the football program really accomplishes nothing at this point. I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Nick Saban's idea, have the football program instead donate its profits to charities and organizations that help kids for the next few years. The people who were involved in the coverup are gone and hopefully the legal system takes care of all of them. Instead of some thermonuclear approach that does cause punish a lot of people that weren't involved, find a constructive way to punish the football program.

Sadly, reason will not deter people from a rabid desire to nuke PSU from orbit.

Melt Joe Pa down, make something that touches on the subject of lost childhood and the promise of adulthood.

puffy999: If they're going to do this, they should just vacate all of Joe Paterno's wins. Since, you know, that guy didn't really exist.

Maybe they should put the statue into Sandusky's jail cell until he dies.

YouWinAgainGravity: Shutting down the football program really accomplishes nothing at this point. I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Nick Saban's idea, have the football program instead donate its profits to charities and organizations that help kids for the next few years. The people who were involved in the coverup are gone and hopefully the legal system takes care of all of them. Instead of some thermonuclear approach that does cause punish a lot of people that weren't involved, find a constructive way to punish the football program.

I more or less felt the same way until I read this. Nuke it.

puffy999: If they're going to do this, they should just vacate all of Joe Paterno's wins. Since, you know, that guy didn't really exist.

Just like the Soviet Union vacated the existence of entire people.

gimmegimme: From the Penn State bowl game just for fun:
Security would have been correct to eject them from the event.

Well sethstorm is confirmed as a troll.

Time to move along.

born_yesterday: Wouldn't that significantly change the school's liability? Not disagreeing, asking. For example, if you get a horrible injury as a "student-athlete-employee", would the school owe you Workman's Comp.?

You don't work for the school, you work for the football team, which has an owner. In any case, if there's no liability now, when the program is totally a function of the university, how could it be more when the player is working for a third party? Assumed risk, as well.

downstairs: gimmegimme: downstairs: gimmegimme: sethstorm: gimmegimme: sethstorm: you have pee hands: Eh. They'll be allowed to transfer to somewhere where people won't come to their games dressed as Pedobear

Disruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.

Seriously. Freedom of speech sucks.

Except that it doesn't apply in that venue.

Untrue. It's a matter of degrees. It's extremely subjective.

Link

No. Just because something is "publically funded" (and schools are only partially)... they're still private entities. And they can make whatever rules they want as to how people act in them.

Link

Not relevant. The removal of that fan was considered unconstitutional because the off-duty cop was found to still be acting in his role of a policeman. This case was MUCH more complicated.

He didn't just try to remove the guy, he arrested him.

I've attended sports games all my life, and I've seen people thrown out for acting obscene. Not violent, just obscene.

If you're an off duty cop... you walk a very fine line when taking private security gigs. You have to act only within the legal capacity any non-cop security guard would be allowed to.

Was the gentleman who was wearing the pedobear costume to the bowl game acting in an obscene manner or disrupting the game or committing any other offense for which he SHOULD have been ejected by simply wearing the costume? (We both seem like reasonable folks. If a pedo bear guy ran on the field, then fine--boot him out. If pedo bear throws fireworks on the field--boot him out.)

sethstorm: puffy999: If they're going to do this, they should just vacate all of Joe Paterno's wins. Since, you know, that guy didn't really exist.

Just like the Soviet Union vacated the existence of entire people.

gimmegimme: From the Penn State bowl game just for fun:
Security would have been correct to eject them from the event.

What is your line of reasoning? And please answer the question I asked you before with all of the images. Which of those disruptive fans should have been ejected. Including some fans who actually touched a player.

PowerSlacker: Well [redacted]

Time to do nothing in particular.

Disagree != troll.

birchman: YouWinAgainGravity: Shutting down the football program really accomplishes nothing at this point. I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Nick Saban's idea, have the football program instead donate its profits to charities and organizations that help kids for the next few years. The people who were involved in the coverup are gone and hopefully the legal system takes care of all of them. Instead of some thermonuclear approach that does cause punish a lot of people that weren't involved, find a constructive way to punish the football program.

I more or less felt the same way until I read this. Nuke it.

Saban's idea accomplishes nothing except to assuage the guilt of the community and university. They would get to feel good about what they were doing, rather than focus on why things got as bad as they did. Football was the meat and potatoes of the community. If you threatened it, you were cut off.

gimmegimme: What is your line of reasoning? And please answer the question I asked you before with all of the images. Which of those disruptive fans should have been ejected. Including some fans who actually touched a player.

The problem is that you forgot the context in all of them.

I am sure Reggie Bush is really hurting because the NCAA put a bowl ban on USC.

gimmegimme: sethstorm: birchman: If there is a hell, I sleep better at night knowing he's there.

Except he isn't.

Sethstorm, can you please answer the question I posed with all of the examples of fan behavior?

From the Penn State bowl game just for fun:
[img.tapatalk.com image 850x478]

[ohellnawlblog.com image 640x360]

That guy is awesome.

birchman: I more or less felt the same way until I read this. Nuke it.

I understand why people are mad and where the 'nuke it from orbit' reactions are coming from. It's easy to get caught up in the emotions over everything that happened. But after cooling off and reading some of the thoughts from people who say "let's not destroy them just yet" (not talking about true JoePa defenders), I'm on the side of the constructive punishment approach.

sethstorm: My wish would be to remove the rapes from history.

How so?

sethstorm: Disruptive spectators that dress up in such can always be removed by security, something that should happen more often.

sethstorm: You're asking for the very same thing that Stalin has asked for in the past - erasing history to fit your desire.

Oh, the Joe Stalin method. Gotcha, Sandusky's worst crime was getting caught.

sethstorm: gimmegimme: What is your line of reasoning? And please answer the question I asked you before with all of the images. Which of those disruptive fans should have been ejected. Including some fans who actually touched a player.

The problem is that you forgot the context in all of them.

Hmmm...under what circumstances are you allowed to restrain a player? And why isn't that worse than wearing a pedo bear costume?

What about the ladies with actual profanity written on their sweet, sweet tummies? (I got dibs on the one on the right, by the way.) Why shouldn't they have been ejected? They subjected those around them--possibly kids!!!--to profanity. How is using profanity not as bad by the simple wearing of a pedo bear costume?

downstairs: gimmegimme: Was the gentleman who was wearing the pedobear costume to the bowl game acting in an obscene manner or disrupting the game or committing any other offense for which he SHOULD have been ejected by simply wearing the costume? (We both seem like reasonable folks. If a pedo bear guy ran on the field, then fine--boot him out. If pedo bear throws fireworks on the field--boot him out.)

Well, let me start out and say I think its lame to kick him out. I am against such an action. Its a gutless action to not be able to face criticism... whether its a front row heckler giving it to Lebron James for not being able to perform for more than 3 quarters, or whether its a snarky costume pointing out that Penn State covered up for pedos.

I'm just saying its within their rights to kick him out.

Well, I think we have reached something of an agreement. I am leaning slightly against him being kicked out, but I see your point. And I am happy you agree that it's lame and gutless to kick out such a person.

Mark Emmert is saying the death penalty 'isn't off the table'.

Jim Delaney is openly talking about kicking Penn State out of the B1G.

The former chairman of the PSU board of trustees fully resigned from the board, this the same day E$PN reported that the board had voted to remove the statue. Which they also reportedly haven't, instead punting that decision to the university president. In other words, expect Elian Gonzales II: Paterno Boogaloo to arrive sometime this weekend.

I think the words I am looking for are 'the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.'

Galloping Galoshes: Saban's idea accomplishes nothing except to assuage the guilt of the community and university. They would get to feel good about what they were doing, rather than focus on why things got as bad as they did. Football was the meat and potatoes of the community. If you threatened it, you were cut off.

Most of the community though wasn't involved in the crime or the coverup.

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Mark Emmert is saying the death penalty 'isn't off the table'.

Jim Delaney is openly talking about kicking Penn State out of the B1G.

The former chairman of the PSU board of trustees fully resigned from the board, this the same day E$PN reported that the board had voted to remove the statue. Which they also reportedly haven't, instead punting that decision to the university president. In other words, expect Elian Gonzales II: Paterno Boogaloo to arrive sometime this weekend.

I think the words I am looking for are 'the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.'

You mean they haven't talked to sethstorm? What outrageousness!

YouWinAgainGravity: birchman: I more or less felt the same way until I read this. Nuke it.

I understand why people are mad and where the 'nuke it from orbit' reactions are coming from. It's easy to get caught up in the emotions over everything that happened. But after cooling off and reading some of the thoughts from people who say "let's not destroy them just yet" (not talking about true JoePa defenders), I'm on the side of the constructive punishment approach.

Considering that the first victim had to be put into protective custody because of the harassment he was getting from the civillian community, that did it for me. This wasn't just a few guys in PSU, this was a culture, a cult. Maybe not a criminally liable one, but a culture that contributed to this cover-up happening. And this sort of culture exists elsewhere, where football is EVERYTHING, meaning it's very plausible it could happen again unless fear of complete loss is created.

I'm sorry if there is going to be collateral damage here, but the men involved knew there would be if they were caught, and the NCAA has to make an example of them in my opinion.

born_yesterday: You mean they haven't talked to sethstorm?

I think the extent of their words with him have been 'buy lots of Kleenex'. I can't see either the NCAA or the B1G wanting to deal with the shiatstorm a 2012 PSU football season would bring. Right now they're trying to tell the university this in no uncertain terms.

Krymson Tyde: Wow.

That said, this isn't heroic.