Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Marketwatch)   No Stairway... denied   (marketwatch.com ) divider line 22
    More: Followup, IPO  
•       •       •

3498 clicks; posted to Business » on 20 Jul 2012 at 10:27 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



22 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-07-20 10:29:53 AM  
FREEBIRD!
 
2012-07-20 10:40:52 AM  
Good. Going public would be a terrible decision for Fender. If they did, within five years we'd see them for sale at Wal-Mart. An IPO is usually an act of desperation only good for raising a bunch of money fast; after that it's nothing but trouble, and it does nothing address the core issues which led to your decision to go public. Your activities are now focused on regulatory compliance and cutting whatever corners you can to get your EPS up half a cent. Workmanship and customer loyalty go out the window, and the sociopaths in finance and marketing take over every aspect of the business.
 
2012-07-20 10:51:39 AM  
codinghorror.typepad.com
 
2012-07-20 10:55:03 AM  

SlothB77:


Came for this, leaving satisfied
 
2012-07-20 11:27:11 AM  
just pointing out that stairway was done on a double neck gibson. pedantry at it's finest.


Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Workmanship and customer loyalty go out the window, and the sociopaths in finance and marketing take over every aspect of the business.


they're almost there already -- you're mostly buying the brand, unless you're shelling out the 3500+ price.
 
2012-07-20 11:31:43 AM  

SageTemple:
Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Workmanship and customer loyalty go out the window, and the sociopaths in finance and marketing take over every aspect of the business.

they're almost there already -- you're mostly buying the brand, unless you're shelling out the 3500+ price.


"Starcaster by Fender" is already being sold in Best Buy, Target, Sam's Club, and Costco. Hell, I bought a Squier Tele in a Sam Goody of all places in 2004.
 
2012-07-20 11:41:46 AM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Good. Going public would be a terrible decision for Fender. If they did, within five years we'd see them for sale at Wal-Mart. An IPO is usually an act of desperation only good for raising a bunch of money fast; after that it's nothing but trouble, and it does nothing address the core issues which led to your decision to go public. Your activities are now focused on regulatory compliance and cutting whatever corners you can to get your EPS up half a cent. Workmanship and customer loyalty go out the window, and the sociopaths in finance and marketing take over every aspect of the business.


Modern IPO's have very little to do with raising funds. They are more about repatriating funds to those who provided the capital when fundraising was necessary.
 
2012-07-20 11:47:28 AM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Good. Going public would be a terrible decision for Fender. If they did, within five years we'd see them for sale at Wal-Mart. An IPO is usually an act of desperation only good for raising a bunch of money fast; after that it's nothing but trouble, and it does nothing address the core issues which led to your decision to go public. Your activities are now focused on regulatory compliance and cutting whatever corners you can to get your EPS up half a cent. Workmanship and customer loyalty go out the window, and the sociopaths in finance and marketing take over every aspect of the business.


Done in two. An IPO would have turned Fender into a parody of itself.
 
2012-07-20 11:54:25 AM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Going public would be a terrible decision for Fender. If they did, within five years we'd see them for sale at Wal-Mart.


I thought Wal*Mart already owned Guitar Center.
 
2012-07-20 12:18:13 PM  
As a buyer at a guitar shop that dropped Fender earlier this year, I'm getting a major kick...

I've been under the impression from the get-go that this IPO was to raise cash because they are MAJORLY in debt.

This will be interesting...

And yes, you can get Fender at Wallyworld already, which is part of the reason a lot of indies like us are basically saying fark 'em.
 
2012-07-20 12:41:14 PM  
Why does anybody buy new? Hit the pawn shops, find one that doesn't know how to price worth a damn, then keep an eye out for something special.
 
2012-07-20 01:07:15 PM  

wildcardjack: Why does anybody buy new? Hit the pawn shops, find one that doesn't know how to price worth a damn, then keep an eye out for something special.


Yes, why buy anything new? Let's turn everything into second-hand shops and forget about things like innovation and production technology.
 
2012-07-20 01:34:54 PM  

Charlie Freak: wildcardjack: Why does anybody buy new? Hit the pawn shops, find one that doesn't know how to price worth a damn, then keep an eye out for something special.

Yes, why buy anything new? Let's turn everything into second-hand shops and forget about things like innovation and production technology.


No, I do not want to buy the latest Line-6 amp modeler. :-P

In my opinion, when it comes to guitars the basic requirements can be met with:

1) a Gibson Les Paul
2) a superstrat, Japanese Ibanez preferred but pre fender Charvel or similar is suitable
3) a quality strat or strat copy.
4) a decent classical
5) a decent dreadnaught
6) a 12 string if you are into that sort of thing
7) ok also a tele, but you can probably get what you need from the strat
8) an es 335 or guild / gretch equivalent
9) a 50 watt dsl head
10) a twin reverb or carvin belair

Yeah it seems like a lot of equipment for a hobbyist but the ears will thank you. No that's not a description of my rig, but I do own some of that stuff.
 
2012-07-20 02:16:16 PM  
You can pry my '01 tele from my cold dead calloused finger tips.
 
2012-07-20 04:09:07 PM  

SlothB77: [codinghorror.typepad.com image 384x247]


codinghorror.typepad.com
 
2012-07-20 07:05:32 PM  
To this day, I don't know why that guitar store disallowed Stairway to Heaven.

/ignorant
 
2012-07-20 07:19:08 PM  

006deluxe: "Starcaster by Fender" is already being sold in Best Buy, Target, Sam's Club, and Costco.


I was recently given a Starcaster to practice on after a friend upgraded. I had left my old guitar at my parents place and was excited about getting something, anything, to play.

Well, yeah. It was worse than the Squier I had as a teenager. The bottom side of the neck had to be taped over because the frets weren't filed down properly or something. You could cut yourself on it.

/it also has helpful numbers up and down the neck. Really, people, really?
 
2012-07-20 08:08:20 PM  

SageTemple: just pointing out that stairway was done on a double neck gibson. pedantry at it's finest.


Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Workmanship and customer loyalty go out the window, and the sociopaths in finance and marketing take over every aspect of the business.

they're almost there already -- you're mostly buying the brand, unless you're shelling out the 3500+ price.

Actually it wasn't, I believe the electric was a telecaster and the rest was a 12 string (minus the intro). The Double neck was used for live performances. I think (can't remember) that Jimmy Page requested it.

Myria: To this day, I don't know why that guitar store disallowed Stairway to Heaven.

/ignorant

Pretty much working at a music store all you would hear all day is people playing Stairway or Smoke on the Water. That can get quickly tiresome.
 
2012-07-20 10:28:57 PM  

rikkards:
Pretty much working at a music store all you would hear all day is people playing Stairway or Smoke on the Water. That can get quickly tiresome.


I had an 8 year old kid (talented, too) tell me "Have you heard Wagonwheel? It's the new Stairway."

I laughed.
 
2012-07-20 11:41:33 PM  

SageTemple: they're almost there already -- you're mostly buying the brand, unless you're shelling out the 3500+ price.


Maybe even if - the classic Fender designs are all over 50 years old now. The patents have expired and other luthiers have had plenty of time to replicate and improve on them.

$2000 at a boutique guitar maker will get you a Strat copy that's every bit as good as one that Fender sells for $4000.
 
2012-07-21 05:49:43 AM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Workmanship and customer loyalty go out the window


Except that this is Fender we are talking about here. Fender has the suck turned up to 11 as it is. It can get no worse.

I was hoping for an IPO. I would short that stock so hard it would think it was Groupon.
 
2012-07-21 10:25:58 AM  
I know this thread is dead, but here is a really good analysis from Fortune on why Fender pulled it. A lot of purists think this is a good thing and will preserve the craft, but in reality, like I said earlier, it's a sign of systemic trouble in the industry (the one in which I happen to have a 10-year career). I fight this fight every single day...

One commenter hits the nail on the head:

"I work in the musical instruments (MI) industry (specifically the guitar industry) and I can say it's in a world of hurt right now. I travel to Asia on a regular basis working with the OEM factories as well as artists and dealers in the US and everyone is hurting. No one is really making any money - from Guitar Center down to the small mom-and-pop stores that are disappearing every day.

It's a very small industry - a little over $10 billion when you combine all the MI manufacturers' annual revenues in the entire industry. To provide a perspective, Apple makes more in just net profits in three months. And, in an indirect way, Apple and the rest of the consumer electronics industry have decimated the MI industry as well as the music business (CD sales, music distribution, concert circuit, etc.).

Even a very low-end electric guitar and an amp will set a family back at least $300. But then you have to provide lessons for them at $25/half-hour and that adds up really fast over a year or two. You might as well buy the kids an iPod touch or even an iPad and call it a day. Plus, kids these days just don't have the patience or the self-discipline to practice musical instruments for years on end when there are so many other types of distractions and entertainment that provide instant gratification.

Major MI companies such as GC, Fender, Gibson, etc. overextended themselves during the 2000's, thinking that they will continue to grow as they did during the booming 90's. Now there are too many GC stores, too much factory capacity, and just not enough demand. Then you add the global economic turmoil of the past 4 years or so and the MI industry has a major financial mess in its hands.

I think this industry has no choice but to go through a very painful cost-cutting phase over several years and accept the fact that it will not become "mainstream" like it tried to be over the past decade. They tried to stuff musical instruments (specifically guitars) down mass merchandiser channels like Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Costco, Bed Bath & Beyond, etc. and it just hasn't worked.

And as others have pointed out, most musical instruments (especially guitars) aren't disposables and they don't become obsolete like tech gadgets. Even a cheap guitar can last decades so the used market is huge so the manufacturers of new instruments have to compete with people (individuals and dealers alike) selling used gear.

So things look rather grim in this industry right now and I don't see it getting better anytime soon. It'll get worse over the next few years before it gets better. But it will survive in a different form. People will always want to play music but it'll be a very niche field. The manufacturers have to accept that they're in a niche market and do business accordingly instead of trying to become all things to all people. The vast majority of people in this world will not be seeking to play an electric guitar..."


BTW, Thunderstruck and Eruption are the two most butchered pieces kids come in to riff on in my store. I've got videos that would make you pull your hair out.
 
Displayed 22 of 22 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report