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(Talking Points Memo)   Firm educating Pennsylvanians about the state's new voter ID law is full of GOP lobbyists, backers, and voters. But they totally won't give Democratic voters wrong information; take their word on it   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 232
    More: Fail, GOP, voter ID, deputy assistant, voting ages, tom ridge, SSA, lobbyists, George H. W. Bush  
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2761 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Jul 2012 at 11:56 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-20 09:30:04 AM
But just think about the tens of cases of voter fraud this is going to prevent! And all the people it'll keep away from the polls.
 
2012-07-20 09:34:03 AM
When minorities vote, everyone loses.
So when you hear some whiny brown person complaining about the new law, hug a Republican.
 
2012-07-20 09:45:48 AM
So what is an acceptable ratio of disenfranchised to prevented fraud?

Seriously, GOP--100:1? 1000:1? 100,000:1?

You resist banking regulation because it's "only a few bad apples." So what percentage of spoiled fruit ruins the entire barrel?

If you can't answer these questions with a modicum of intellectual honesty then you're simply hiding behind false outrage in an attempt to rig our elections. But hey, keep on shouting jingoistic buzzwords like 'freedom' while you systematically undermine our democracy.
 
2012-07-20 09:48:00 AM

doyner: So what is an acceptable ratio of disenfranchised to prevented fraud?


It seems to me that the GOP gets sick with fear at the very thought that someone, somewhere, might be breaking the rules. It's better to throw a hundred innocents in jail if we can keep one guilty person from getting away with something they shouldn't.

The reality is, of course, that the GOP doesn't afraid of anything. They're running a structured campaign to disenfranchise the people most likely to vote against them. People in jail, people off the voter rolls, people without IDs- they're all poor and usually minorities. From the GOP standpoint: problem solved.
 
2012-07-20 09:54:26 AM

t3knomanser: doyner: So what is an acceptable ratio of disenfranchised to prevented fraud?

It seems to me that the GOP gets sick with fear at the very thought that someone, somewhere, might be breaking the rules. It's better to throw a hundred innocents in jail if we can keep one guilty person from getting away with something they shouldn't.

The reality is, of course, that the GOP doesn't afraid of anything. They're running a structured campaign to disenfranchise the people most likely to vote against them. People in jail, people off the voter rolls, people without IDs- they're all poor and usually minorities. From the GOP standpoint: problem solved.


What this is about is that no matter how much money the Koch Brothers and Sheldon Adelson contribute, at the end of the day they only get one vote each. The idea that their vote can be cancelled by a welfare queen from the city enrages them. They expect a return on their investment and they can't get that if the lessers muck things up by exercising their basic human rights.
 
2012-07-20 10:00:47 AM
If you need to resort to voter disenfranchisement and union busting your side has already lost. It's almost like they have given up on broadening the base.
 
2012-07-20 10:01:03 AM

doyner: Seriously, GOP--100:1? 1000:1? 100,000:1?


it's approximately black people:1
 
2012-07-20 10:08:20 AM

doyner: So what is an acceptable ratio of disenfranchised to prevented fraud?


1:1.

t3knomanser: It seems to me that the GOP gets sick with fear at the very thought that someone, somewhere, might be breaking the rules.


Conservatives live their lives in fear that someone, somewhere, might be getting something they do not deserve.
And Liberals live their lives in fear that someone, somewhere, might not be getting something they do deserve.

t3knomanser: The reality is, of course, that the GOP doesn't afraid of anything.


It's not clear to me whether the GOP is more governed by RWA-fear or SDO-contempt. It appears plausible that the de facto GOP leadership has a large fraction of double-highs, so it's likely to contain significant elements of both.

Prior research suggests that individuals' prejudiced attitudes form a single generalized dimension predicted by Right Wing Authoritarianism (RWA) and Social Dominance Orientation (SDO). A dual process approach, however, expects different domains of generalized prejudice that relate differentially to RWA and SDO. To test this, 212 participants rated attitudes to 24 typically disliked groups. Factor analysis revealed three distinct generalized prejudice dimensions. Hierarchical Linear Modelling indicated that attitudes towards a 'dangerous' groups domain was significantly related only with RWA, attitudes toward a second 'derogated' groups domain was related only to SDO, and attitudes toward a third, 'dissident' groups, domain was significantly related to both, but powerfully with RWA and weakly with SDO. These findings have implications for explaining and reducing prejudice. Copyright © 2006 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd. - (doi:10.1002/per.614)
 
2012-07-20 10:18:46 AM

sammyk: If you need to resort to voter disenfranchisement and union busting your side has already lost. It's almost like they have given up on broadening the base.


be that as it may, this reads like typical Central Pennsylvania corruption. I"m sure the folks who got hired to do this have close ties to the Corbitt administration. that's how/why they got the contract. Not because of some grand GOP conspiracy....but because in this state, allies are rewarded, while enemies are cut off from lucrative government contracts.

which isn't to say that the GOP is above outright lying to Pa voters....but living in this state, I'd tend to assume corruption over conspiracy in cases like this one.
 
2012-07-20 10:38:07 AM

Weaver95: I'd tend to assume corruption over conspiracy in cases like this one.


You forgot "incompetence". There's always room for incompetence.
 
2012-07-20 10:45:25 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Weaver95: I'd tend to assume corruption over conspiracy in cases like this one.

You forgot "incompetence". There's always room for incompetence.


well that too...but in this case, it's mostly corruption.
 
2012-07-20 11:08:21 AM
Pennsylvania recently admitted that over 750,000 voters (or over 9 percent of registered voters) lack state-issued identification, a statistic that has Democratic officials pretty worried.

almost 10% of voters (not citizens - registered voters) get disenfranchised over a non-existent issue.

One Republican leader in the state has already bragged that the law will help presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney win the Keystone State.

and there are people who have the audacity and sufficient lack of patriotism to actually brag about it.
 
2012-07-20 11:12:01 AM
For over a week now the Spanish-language version of the PA Voter website has been in English. They just can't seem to get that changed, but, trust them, they're working on it. I'm sure no later than November 9th that will be updated properly.
 
2012-07-20 11:57:58 AM

thomps: and there are people who have the audacity and sufficient lack of patriotism to actually brag about it.


No, I don't blame them. I blame the voters who put them into power over and over again.
 
2012-07-20 11:58:50 AM
Stick a fork in America. She's done.
 
2012-07-20 11:58:50 AM

Weaver95: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Weaver95: I'd tend to assume corruption over conspiracy in cases like this one.

You forgot "incompetence". There's always room for incompetence.

well that too...but in this case, it's mostly corruption.


I think the incompetent ones are most easily corrupted.
 
2012-07-20 11:59:50 AM

Jackson Herring: doyner: Seriously, GOP--100:1? 1000:1? 100,000:1?

it's approximately black people Obama voters:1

 
2012-07-20 12:00:36 PM

qorkfiend: thomps: and there are people who have the audacity and sufficient lack of patriotism to actually brag about it.

No, I don't blame them. I blame the voters who put them into power over and over again.


if they are intent on gaming the voter pool that becomes a fairly vicious cycle.
 
2012-07-20 12:01:34 PM
This is a pretty blah story. Yeah, there may be some GOPers in there promoting it but I don't see smoking gun. I mean, other than the piece of shiat law that started this whole mess.
 
MFK
2012-07-20 12:02:13 PM
THESE LAWS ARE NOT, NOR HAVE THEY EVER BEEN, ABOUT "VOTER FRAUD"!!!
 
2012-07-20 12:02:30 PM
I wonder how many voters disenfranchised is their goal for this election? Do they have one of those big thermometer things like they do for pledge drives?
 
2012-07-20 12:04:02 PM

t3knomanser: doyner: So what is an acceptable ratio of disenfranchised to prevented fraud?

It seems to me that the GOP gets sick with fear at the very thought that someone, somewhere, might be breaking the rules. It's better to throw a hundred innocents in jail if we can keep one guilty person from getting away with something they shouldn't.

The reality is, of course, that the GOP doesn't afraid of anything. They're running a structured campaign to disenfranchise the people most likely to vote against them. People in jail, people off the voter rolls, people without IDs- they're all poor and usually minorities. From the GOP standpoint: problem solved.


The GOP politicians aren't afraid, but they sure are preying on the fears of the ignorant, the bigoted, and the just plain stupid that lap up the derp they, fox news, and the conservative blogosphere spew.
 
2012-07-20 12:05:19 PM

MFK: THESE LAWS ARE NOT, NOR HAVE THEY EVER BEEN, ABOUT "VOTER FRAUD"!!!


True. They're about reaffirming what has been evident for the past 236 years of our sovereignty, that conservative principles, left unchecked, will f*ck your ass raw and yet leave you (electorate) wanting more.
 
2012-07-20 12:05:37 PM
Voter education starts with "the election has been moved to October 13th"
 
2012-07-20 12:05:44 PM
They are paying a republican stacked private PR firm to do PR for a law that wasn't needed based on invented facts because...small government and limited spending?

Remember, poor black people are welfare queens and strapping young bucks eating t-bone steaks on your dime. These PR firm owners did it all on their own, pulled up by their own bootstraps and had no help (in helping themselves to taxpayer funds signed off on by their fellow college republicans they met at a college that was paid for by themselves, albeit out of a trust fund).
 
2012-07-20 12:05:55 PM

Headso: I wonder how many voters disenfranchised is their goal for this election? Do they have one of those big thermometer things like they do for pledge drives?


Let's see, Obama beat McCain in Pennsylvania by 10.31%, so I'm guessing 10.32% is their goal.
 
2012-07-20 12:05:56 PM
Voting is overrated. The new Batman movie is out!
 
2012-07-20 12:06:59 PM
If you think its possible there is any chance there could be a warrant out for your arrest. Stay home. Did you miss a credit card payment? Have an account in collection? Forget a parking ticket. Then you might have a warrant out you and they will be arresting people at the polls. It's okay, your one vote wasn't going to swing the election either way.
 
2012-07-20 12:09:16 PM
The Justice Department should throw all of these laws out.
 
2012-07-20 12:09:29 PM

andersoncouncil42: The GOP politicians aren't afraid


They have no reason to be afraid. They can get away with literally anything and never face prosecution.
 
2012-07-20 12:09:41 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Headso: I wonder how many voters disenfranchised is their goal for this election? Do they have one of those big thermometer things like they do for pledge drives?

Let's see, Obama beat McCain in Pennsylvania by 10.31%, so I'm guessing 10.32% is their goal.


Obama is running against a worse campaign than McCain's while having lots on his record to shout about, yet is only barely beating Romney. Behold, the uber-derp power of FoxNews.
 
2012-07-20 12:11:24 PM
I've yet to hear any of the clowns pushing these laws adequately explain why they're needed or how they won't disenfranchise large groups of people, who just happen to vote Democratic...

I mean, I know that's the whole point, but you'd figure they'd at least have some good bullshiat to distract from their real goal.
 
2012-07-20 12:13:52 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Headso: I wonder how many voters disenfranchised is their goal for this election? Do they have one of those big thermometer things like they do for pledge drives?

Let's see, Obama beat McCain in Pennsylvania by 10.31%, so I'm guessing 10.32% is their goal.


But McCain was a war hero (or at least a war veteran), long time senator, mildly charismatic man with a past that didn't involve being the generic wall street executive who might have fired you/your dad.

On the other hand McCain was right after Bush and it has been around 4 years since Bush now and that is approximation 3 years longer than Americans collective attention span so they might be on equal footings.
 
2012-07-20 12:14:14 PM
Allowing ineligible people to vote is bad. Legislating discriminitory regulations with a political agenda of alienating eligible voters is treason. It is also an early warning sign of a coup.
 
2012-07-20 12:16:50 PM

keylock71: I've yet to hear any of the clowns pushing these laws adequately explain why they're needed or how they won't disenfranchise large groups of people, who just happen to vote Democratic...

I mean, I know that's the whole point, but you'd figure they'd at least have some good bullshiat to distract from their real goal.


Why bother? They don't care. None of their bad acts carry any consequences. Their voting base is composed of evil-minded scum who like this sort of thing and ignorant twits who don't know or care what is going on in the world. Any legal action will result in cries of "partisan witch hunt!" and quietly disappear. If it doesn't, they've got a nice grip on the Supreme Court. There is literally nothing the right can do that will result in any negative consequences, not in this environment. Dead girl/live boy? nope.avi. That era is long gone.
 
2012-07-20 12:17:34 PM
Their plan sounds reasonable and positive on paper, but conservative republicans aren't trustworthy people.
 
2012-07-20 12:17:58 PM

Anenu: Philip Francis Queeg: Headso: I wonder how many voters disenfranchised is their goal for this election? Do they have one of those big thermometer things like they do for pledge drives?

Let's see, Obama beat McCain in Pennsylvania by 10.31%, so I'm guessing 10.32% is their goal.

But McCain was a war hero (or at least a war veteran), long time senator, mildly charismatic man with a past that didn't involve being the generic wall street executive who might have fired you/your dad.

On the other hand McCain was right after Bush and it has been around 4 years since Bush now and that is approximation 3 years longer than Americans collective attention span so they might be on equal footings.


Don't forget his running mate. Ouch.
 
2012-07-20 12:18:40 PM

Citrate1007: Allowing ineligible people to vote is bad. Legislating discriminitory regulations with a political agenda of alienating eligible voters is treason. It is also an early warning sign of a coup.


Also, why bother? Just keep on with the electoral shenanigans. An open coup would just bring unwanted attention.

Just keep voting! That is your only obligation and your only power, citizen!
 
2012-07-20 12:18:53 PM
At best, an individual fraudulently voting in an election can add exactly one vote to the total count. The net effect is so completely negligible you'd need a scientific calculator to make enough room behind the decimal point to see it.

But if you can kick a few hundred thousand people off the voter rolls, then you can really make some headway in shaping election outcomes.
 
2012-07-20 12:20:48 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Their plan sounds reasonable and positive on paper, but conservative republicans aren't trustworthy people.


When Obama wins again it with be the conservative republicans who will cry afoul. After all, how could Obama have won when they know how many legitimate votes for him they disenfranchised through their actions.
 
2012-07-20 12:20:52 PM

keylock71: I've yet to hear any of the clowns pushing these laws adequately explain why they're needed or how they won't disenfranchise large groups of people, who just happen to vote Democratic...

I mean, I know that's the whole point, but you'd figure they'd at least have some good bullshiat to distract from their real goal.


My republican friend explained it to me like this: "Voting is such an important right that if there's even one person out there who is voting fraudulently, we should make sure he doesn't get away with it." When asked about how this stacks against disenfranchising other voters, he replied "well, no one's going out there and actually STOPPING the legal voters from voting- they're just too lazy or scared to read the laws correctly, and how is that the new law's fault?"

/don't agree. Just reporting back from derpfront
 
2012-07-20 12:21:31 PM

PonceAlyosha: The Justice Department should throw all of these laws out.


That's what I'm wondering.... I know some groups have been fighting back in other states, but I don't know what chances exist to overturn this before the election. I'd be happy to contribute if it were possible...
 
2012-07-20 12:22:56 PM

Koalaesq: keylock71: I've yet to hear any of the clowns pushing these laws adequately explain why they're needed or how they won't disenfranchise large groups of people, who just happen to vote Democratic...

I mean, I know that's the whole point, but you'd figure they'd at least have some good bullshiat to distract from their real goal.

My republican friend explained it to me like this: "Voting is such an important right that if there's even one person out there who is voting fraudulently, we should make sure he doesn't get away with it." When asked about how this stacks against disenfranchising other voters, he replied "well, no one's going out there and actually STOPPING the legal voters from voting- they're just too lazy or scared to read the laws correctly, and how is that the new law's fault?"

/don't agree. Just reporting back from derpfront


Stop liking things I don't like. Many republicans are at such a loss for leadership in their party and so mind farked with double think from their propaganda outlets that it is like trying to hold a debate with a 4 year old.
 
2012-07-20 12:23:34 PM
The nerve of those bastids thinking that only citizens should vote.
 
2012-07-20 12:24:22 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Citrate1007: Allowing ineligible people to vote is bad. Legislating discriminitory regulations with a political agenda of alienating eligible voters is treason. It is also an early warning sign of a coup.

Also, why bother? Just keep on with the electoral shenanigans. An open coup would just bring unwanted attention.

Just keep voting! That is your only obligation and your only power, citizen!


Your post and your username match so well :D
 
2012-07-20 12:25:01 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: The nerve of those bastids thinking that only citizens Republicans should vote.


You shiat.
 
2012-07-20 12:25:38 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: The nerve of those bastids thinking that only citizenswhite male landowners should vote.


Fixed this to reflect the GOP. Your own views may differ.
 
2012-07-20 12:25:47 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: The nerve of those bastids thinking that only citizens should vote.


I had no idea that holding an ID is citizenship.
 
2012-07-20 12:26:17 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: The nerve of those bastids thinking that only citizens should vote.


Statistical-relevancy speaking, as well as per effecting the outcome of elections, only citizens do.

//zero:ten
 
2012-07-20 12:26:37 PM

Citrate1007: A Dark Evil Omen: Citrate1007: Allowing ineligible people to vote is bad. Legislating discriminitory regulations with a political agenda of alienating eligible voters is treason. It is also an early warning sign of a coup.

Also, why bother? Just keep on with the electoral shenanigans. An open coup would just bring unwanted attention.

Just keep voting! That is your only obligation and your only power, citizen!

Your post and your username match so well :D


My nick does give things away, doesn't it? I'm thinking about changing it to "Americans For An American America".
 
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