If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Slate)   Dear Prudence: My husband had sex with me while I was in a drunken state. Should I divorce him?   (slate.com) divider line 396
    More: Asinine, Emily Yoffe, husband had sex, Ex-wife, prospectus  
•       •       •

30129 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jul 2012 at 11:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



396 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-07-20 01:18:28 AM  

Ned Stark: but the tone taken by prudie and some farkers addressing it is frankly despicable.


No shiat, the fact that the letter writer has a MASSIVE alcohol problem has been ignored.
 
2012-07-20 01:19:28 AM  

Theaetetus: rubi_con_man: Well, let's see ... the wife and I have discussed the matter and decided that strap-ons and anal sex are not in the game.
On the other hand, we have discussed, practiced, and post-coitally endorsed drunken sex in the past.
So the behaviors are not sex-opposed equivalent in our marriage (and they're not in the real-world either)

Great. Let's discuss a nice real-world example, then. Julian Assange was intimate with a woman who said "no sex without a condom." In other words, "sex without a condom" was "not in the game."
When she was asleep, he slipped it to her without a condom.
In your understanding, was that with consent or no?


The difference is that there are very specific laws in Sweden regarding this, and he clearly violated the sex laws there
 
2012-07-20 01:20:23 AM  

suziequzie: This thread kinda makes me want another drink.

And Theatatus? I did say I can't say what the limit is, as EVERY farkING RELATIONSHIP IS UNIQUE and often has THEIR OWN QUIRKS.


I thank you for answering, but I'm not sure that really addresses the question. You said:
There's a difference between some frat douche getting a girl drunk and then taking her upstairs and forcing himself on her and your husband having sex with you after you've had a few. I don't discount that marital rape exists, but this isn't an example of marital rape.

So, I asked what would you think was an example of marital rape. Does it require violence or threats, or would slipping it in while unconscious count in your mind?
 
2012-07-20 01:21:46 AM  

caramba421: Theaetetus: rubi_con_man: accept your position (all sex is rape until triplicate-approved before during and after)

[www.fotoblography.com image 850x632]

I didn't hear that bale of hay say "no..."


nooooooooooooooo.com
 
2012-07-20 01:22:43 AM  

Theaetetus: Does it require violence or threats, or would slipping it in while unconscious count in your mind?


You reading a different article than the rest of us, Otis?
 
2012-07-20 01:23:46 AM  

halfof33: Theaetetus: That's not fair. He could just have a migraine.

Well to be fair, it might be the posts where someone throws up a rhino dildo strap on scenario, while also posting references to a straw man
Of course, perhaps he just has whip lash.


The strawman fallacy requires not just that you pose an outrageous hypothetical, but that you also answer it. The fallacy is in the assumption, both of scope and answer. Asking questions, alone, is not a strawman fallacy by definition.

... and I notice you didn't answer those questions...
 
2012-07-20 01:24:00 AM  
My ex-wife was worse than this (fake) letter writer could ever be. She waited until we were married to inform me that she was raped as a teenager and every time we'd had sex before and after the "I do's" it was like being raped all over again. I never touched her again of my own accord, the only time we did anything after marriage was when she was basically raping me. Even then, she would often stop halfway through and cry or get angry with me. Never mind that she was assaulting my package at 2am and I would wake up in the middle of the act.

That was the shortest marriage anyone in my family has ever had.
 
Esn
2012-07-20 01:24:50 AM  

Theaetetus: rubi_con_man: Well, let's see ... the wife and I have discussed the matter and decided that strap-ons and anal sex are not in the game.
On the other hand, we have discussed, practiced, and post-coitally endorsed drunken sex in the past.
So the behaviors are not sex-opposed equivalent in our marriage (and they're not in the real-world either)

Great. Let's discuss a nice real-world example, then. Julian Assange was intimate with a woman who said "no sex without a condom." In other words, "sex without a condom" was "not in the game."
When she was asleep, he slipped it to her without a condom.
In your understanding, was that with consent or no?


If that's the story, Assange is clearly in the wrong.

But I don't know if I can trust the story. The first casualty of war is truth, and Assange is at the centre of an information war with some very powerful interests on both sides. With people like that, it becomes more about power and politics than morals.
 
2012-07-20 01:24:53 AM  

Theaetetus: Honest question for the guys saying that if she hasn't said no, or is passed out and can't say no, it's fair game...
[www.explosm.net image 721x254]
What if you were passed out, and she decided to use a strap-on on you? The Triceratops, even. Fair game? You were drunk, so you should accept some responsibility?


Yes, you asshole, it's fine. A woman manages to get that thing inside me without waking me up, I guess I'll have a mystery on my hands when I take a shiat in the morning. Most likely, though, I will wake up before the main event takes place, and no matter how drunk I am, I will be able to evaluate my own willingness to have a dildo in my anus. I assume a woman can make the same calculation about a penis.
 
2012-07-20 01:26:13 AM  

rubi_con_man: You are making a fundamental mistake comparing actions between well-known persons of with detailed understandings of each others behavior, motivations, and character (Married couples) with persons with limited intimacy and mutual familiarity.(Julian Assange & whomever) It's entirely possible for married couples to have previously consented repeatedly to patterns of behavior that make any action seem reasonable if not necessarily any given person's cup of tea.


Absolutely, and I readily concede the point. My argument here was Prudence's assumption that married couples must have implicit consent to sleep-sex, and any complaints are out of line: "Your approach, however, seems to be to treat your sex life as if it is subject to regulatory review by the Department of Health and Human Services."
 
2012-07-20 01:27:03 AM  

Theaetetus: The strawman fallacy requires not just that you pose an outrageous hypothetical, but that you also answer it.


Lulz. No Jack Daniels, that is not how that works.
 
2012-07-20 01:27:23 AM  
Never marry a women's studies major.

In fact, never marry or hire any "____studies major"
 
2012-07-20 01:27:35 AM  

Theaetetus: So, I asked what would you think was an example of marital rape. Does it require violence or threats, or would slipping it in while unconscious count in your mind?


What would count in your mind?

Clearly 'expected behavior' isn't one - a man who regularly comes home rapes his wife is guilty of marital rape.

.... and you seem to leaning against the 'explicit threat' argument - I expect that you'll suggest that a woman may stay compliant to undesired advances by her husband to keep him from doing where is any undesirable legal or illegal behavior she expects to happen when she resists him.

You also seem to want a universal standard, which you previously have stated won't work.

You're using false opposite-sex equivalence to manipulate responders into either (self-ad-hominem) untenable positions, or apparent hypocrisy, compliance with normative roles, or other unpopular positions.

So basically you're asking people to halfheartedly respond to you so you can pick their answers apart and make them look like arseholes.

Well done.
 
cot
2012-07-20 01:27:48 AM  

Theaetetus:
I think you should print this on an index card and give it to every woman you date. Like I said above, you will never, ever, be falsely accused of rape. Why, it's like a get-out-of-jail-free card!


I think you should print out your comments in this thread on a stack of index cards and give a copy to every woman you meet. You are guaranteed to impress loads of women who hate sex everywhere with your Internet heroism.
 
2012-07-20 01:28:12 AM  

Ned Stark: imo, judging from the admittedly limited information in this letter it wasnt, or at least shoudn't be, legally considered rape. but the tone taken by prudie and some farkers addressing it is frankly despicable.


I agree wholeheartedly with both of those sentences. I would never convict the guy on this evidence, but nor would I commend Prudence for her response.
 
2012-07-20 01:30:30 AM  

Theaetetus: agree wholeheartedly with both of those sentences. I would never convict the guy on this evidence, but nor would I commend Prudence for her response.


Oh stop it Jim Beam, the key is I went along, but in the morning could only remember half of it.

The problem ain't "rape" it is the fact that she is an alcoholic.
 
2012-07-20 01:31:32 AM  

xant: Theaetetus: Honest question for the guys saying that if she hasn't said no, or is passed out and can't say no, it's fair game...
[www.explosm.net image 721x254]
What if you were passed out, and she decided to use a strap-on on you? The Triceratops, even. Fair game? You were drunk, so you should accept some responsibility?

Yes, you asshole, it's fine. A woman manages to get that thing inside me without waking me up, I guess I'll have a mystery on my hands when I take a shiat in the morning. Most likely, though, I will wake up before the main event takes place, and no matter how drunk I am, I will be able to evaluate my own willingness to have a dildo in my anus. I assume a woman can make the same calculation about a penis.


Yes, but that's the point: when you wake up and are displeased, are you entitled to press charges at that point? There's a big spiky dildo in your ass that you never agreed to... have you been penetrated without your consent? Can you press charges for sexual assault?
 
2012-07-20 01:31:34 AM  

SN1987a goes boom: If I'm reading this right:

1) They both get drunk at a college party.
2) They procede to get busy.
3) She takes off her panties on her own.
4) She then says stop. The man complies.
5) The man is guilted into thinking he raped her.
6) They get married.
7) She puts him through this shiat again.

wtf is wrong with this woman?


Absolutely. And some would say, 'what is wrong with this man?'
 
2012-07-20 01:32:41 AM  

Theaetetus: Does it require violence or threats,

no
or would slipping it in while unconscious count in your mind?
maybe. really depends on the context. why is the person unconscious? is this particular form of slipping the sex act one they have frequently consented to before*? given their mood prior to abandoning consciousness is it probably they would have said yes? has the couple ever discussed sleep sexings before? In any case, I would never tell someone they were wrong/stupid/bad for FEELING violated about it. Even if it didnt seem to be a legal fault. thats not ok.

*excluding oral. that would always be a no-no. PUTTING SOMETHING IN AN UNCONSCIOUS PERSONS BREATHING PASSAGE? ARE YOU GODDAMN DUMB?
 
2012-07-20 01:33:55 AM  
i1172.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-20 01:34:56 AM  
I was going to make a joke about martial rape, but I am tired.
 
2012-07-20 01:36:51 AM  

Ned Stark: Theaetetus: Does it require violence or threats,
no
or would slipping it in while unconscious count in your mind?
maybe. really depends on the context. why is the person unconscious? is this particular form of slipping the sex act one they have frequently consented to before*? given their mood prior to abandoning consciousness is it probably they would have said yes? has the couple ever discussed sleep sexings before? In any case, I would never tell someone they were wrong/stupid/bad for FEELING violated about it. Even if it didnt seem to be a legal fault. thats not ok.

*excluding oral. that would always be a no-no. PUTTING SOMETHING IN AN UNCONSCIOUS PERSONS BREATHING PASSAGE? ARE YOU GODDAMN DUMB?


is this particular form of slipping it in a sex act that
 
2012-07-20 01:37:24 AM  

Harry_Seldon: I had a girlfriend who had this weird habit a few times a year to wake me up at 3am in the morning, get on top, take care of her needs, and go right back to sleep.

The first time was weird. After that I just focused on her beautiful long hair, and swaying bounty, and felt lucky it was me.


lol. And how many other people have you repeatedly told this story to? :)

i74.photobucket.com">
 
2012-07-20 01:37:25 AM  

the ham sap gwailo: SN1987a goes boom: If I'm reading this right:

1) They both get drunk at a college party.
2) They procede to get busy.
3) She takes off her panties on her own.
4) She then says stop. The man complies.
5) The man is guilted into thinking he raped her.
6) They get married.
7) She puts him through this shiat again.

wtf is wrong with this woman?

Absolutely. And some would say, 'what is wrong with this man?'


I agree, I don't know anybody of sound mind that would marry a woman like that.
 
2012-07-20 01:38:23 AM  

rubi_con_man: Well done.


Thank you. I'm not sure exactly what your question was. I think you were asking what my idea of martial rape was. If so, it's pretty straight forward, like rape in general - did the victim not consent, and did the perpetrator know or have reason to know that the victim didn't consent?
If your wife has previously said "feel free to wake me up with sex" then (i) they may not have 'not' consented, and even if they did, (ii) you didn't know or have reason to know that they didn't consent.
If it's a one night stand whom you've never been alone with and they didn't say anything then (i) they may have not consented, and (ii) you have no reasonable ground to assume consent.
This shiat shouldn't be complicated. Think of it like a wallet. Can you just take a $20 out of any wallet you see lying on a table? Of course not, you don't have consent. Can you take $20 out of your wife's wallet or purse? Yeah, that's pretty reasonable, unless she's said no. Past behavior can indicate consent... where there's been past behavior consistent with consent.

In the Assange case, there was no past behavior consistent with consent, and she had in fact said no.
In this case, there was also past behavior that was inconsistent with consent where she had said no

If someone says "no", it doesn't mean "wait until they're asleep."
 
2012-07-20 01:39:19 AM  
SN1987a goes boom:
I agree, I don't know anybody of sound mind that would marry a woman like that.

See my earlier comment above, buried in the war of the Romans. Sometimes you don't figure out just how batshiat crazy they are until it's too late.
 
2012-07-20 01:39:28 AM  
Jerry Sandusky verbally abused me.
 
2012-07-20 01:39:44 AM  

GGracie: I hate her.
I have no husband.
She biatches about hers getting naughty when she was drunk
She is a dumb whore that was going to leave him anyways
I would love a husband that would get naughty with me if I had been drinking.
It makes for awesome sex dreams later :-)


Fancy a pint?
I have an Irish accent if that helps
 
2012-07-20 01:41:15 AM  

halfof33: Ned Stark: but the tone taken by prudie and some farkers addressing it is frankly despicable.

No shiat, the fact that the letter writer has a MASSIVE alcohol problem has been ignored.


Thisity, this this. Getting loaded at a friend's party one night and then getting blackout drunk at a "wine tasting?" Oh yeah, if she's having blackouts, she's tasting an awful lot of wine on a regular basis. It's her alky-ness that's the real problem here, and I think she's feels guilty about being a drunk and is trying to deflect that guilt by calling her hubby a rapist.
 
2012-07-20 01:41:18 AM  
Nailed it, Prudie!

/So to speak.
 
2012-07-20 01:41:23 AM  

the ham sap gwailo: SN1987a goes boom: If I'm reading this right:

1) They both get drunk at a college party.
2) They procede to get busy.
3) She takes off her panties on her own.
4) She then says stop. The man complies.
5) The man is guilted into thinking he raped her.
6) They get married.
7) She puts him through this shiat again.

wtf is wrong with this woman?

Absolutely. And some would say, 'what is wrong with this man?'


I was in a relationship where 1-3 happened, skipped 4, and in the morning stopped at 5. I stayed friends with her, but we never had sex with her again, because of the guilt trip she whipped on me me afterwards.

Right after one of her close relatives passed away, I went to her house to comfort her, and she got drunk again, and made some moves on me. Instead of going upstairs with her, I went outside and slept in the cold cold car (I locked the doors just in case). She was crying so loud, I could hear her outside in the car. Come dawn and sobriety, I drove away and never talked to her again.

I loved her a lot, and I still have some sleepless nights on account of what happened thirty years ago.
 
2012-07-20 01:41:45 AM  
Bedtime. And I'm locking the door, because some of you are creepy.
 
2012-07-20 01:41:59 AM  

Theaetetus: Prudence's assumption that married couples must have implicit consent to sleep-sex


That's why you wear the ring. If you're living with someone, take their name, and plan to stay that way forever: you have sex. Sometimes, they'll wake you up with it. It's not necessarily rape. Sometimes, there's nothing better in the world than being woken up to a little rumpy pumpy. Other times, you don't want to. Sleeping in your marriage bed is not the same thing as falling asleep on the train and waking up being farked by the conductor. And when a spouse goes too far, you tell them stop, and they comply, that's the opposite of rape.
 
2012-07-20 01:46:03 AM  

Theaetetus: Bedtime. And I'm locking the door, because some of you are creepy.


Good night Captain Morgan.
 
2012-07-20 01:48:21 AM  

the ham sap gwailo: Harry_Seldon: I had a girlfriend who had this weird habit a few times a year to wake me up at 3am in the morning, get on top, take care of her needs, and go right back to sleep.

The first time was weird. After that I just focused on her beautiful long hair, and swaying bounty, and felt lucky it was me.

lol. And how many other people have you repeatedly told this story to? :)

[i74.photobucket.com image 260x144]">


That's funny. I never talk about my personal life to people in real life. Anonymously, on the Internet, it's interesting to share the occasional personal story.
 
2012-07-20 01:48:46 AM  

hostJP: Please tell me you Farkers have read the rest of the article. The one about the hairy bridesmaid is a great topic waiting to happen.


didn't get that far. Damn you, now I'm interested...
 
2012-07-20 01:52:01 AM  
> My husband is kind, supportive, funny, generous, smart, and loving. However, I feel like I must divorce him.

If any of you kids out there are wondering if women reject decent, kind, sensitive men in favour of people who are, you know, *not* decent, kind, sensitive men, well, there's your answer in Plain English.
 
2012-07-20 01:52:43 AM  

Harry_Seldon: the ham sap gwailo: Harry_Seldon: I had a girlfriend who had this weird habit a few times a year to wake me up at 3am in the morning, get on top, take care of her needs, and go right back to sleep.

The first time was weird. After that I just focused on her beautiful long hair, and swaying bounty, and felt lucky it was me.

lol. And how many other people have you repeatedly told this story to? :)

[i74.photobucket.com image 260x144]">

That's funny. I never talk about my personal life to people in real life. Anonymously, on the Internet, it's interesting to share the occasional personal story.


no drama ;-) it just reminded me of the joke about the old Jewish guy going to confession and telling the priest he was having sex with a magnificent 22 yo. When the priest asks why he's telling him this he replies 'I'm telling everybody!'

Go for it!
 
2012-07-20 01:55:43 AM  
Some advise from Lonesome George Thorogood:

"I'm tired of putting up With your sober ways Tired of looking at you Through an alcoholic haze You better change I'm begging you please 'cause if you don't start drinkin' I'm gonna leave"
 
2012-07-20 01:55:57 AM  

Theaetetus: The article is about the "she's blacked out, he's not" situation. Is that what you're talking about too?


Yeah, except it's really actually not about that, is it?

It's about two incidents, the first when she was into it then asked him to stop and he did, and the second when she has some memories of having sex and enjoying it but doesn't remember it all. That's not my understanding of what "Blacked out' means, nor my understanding of the word rape.


/drunken (obviously consensual) sex is great
 
2012-07-20 01:57:03 AM  
Wouldn't have expected child-rape apologist doglover to be advocating that it's OK to have sex with someone while they are unconscious. Backing it up with bible quotes just makes it all the more disgusting.
 
2012-07-20 01:59:48 AM  
This thread.... it's making me regret certain choices.
 
2012-07-20 02:00:09 AM  

kliq: pjbreeze: I read that letter in Michelle Bachmann's voice.

[towleroad.typepad.com image 250x290]

Yeahhhhh....I don't see this guy lusting after scoring even with drunk chicks.


F
 
2012-07-20 02:00:29 AM  
Wow, I thought this would be a thread of sarcasm and hilarity. Instead it's a bunch of saps getting mega-trolled by the Tatsuma of feminism.

For shame, Farkers, for shame.
 
2012-07-20 02:02:05 AM  
Simple solution.....

Stop drinking so much that you black out badly enough not to clearly understand and recall when there is a penis in your vagina.
 
2012-07-20 02:04:01 AM  

doglover: 141. If a man's wife, living in her husband's house, has persisted in going out, has acted the fool, has wasted her house, has belittled her husband, he shall prosecute her. If her husband has said, "I divorce her," she shall go her way; he shall give her nothing as her price of divorce. If her husband has said, "I will not divorce her," he may take another woman to wife; the wife shall live as a slave in her husband's house.

It's all right there in black and white on the finger. Well, actually black and bas relief. Anyway I'm not sure it really applies to this situation, but I like the cut of the jib. We should make it gender neutral, though, so poly couples can use it to make husband-harems.


I'm..ok with this.
 
2012-07-20 02:06:47 AM  

cryinoutloud: Yes, you should divorce him. Plus you were raped. Stop being a doormat.


mostly-sure-you're-not-being-serious.jpeg
 
2012-07-20 02:08:55 AM  
Yes. yes you should.

/He will be infinitely happier without you
 
2012-07-20 02:09:41 AM  

rubi_con_man: If your ass is drunk enough for you to say "yes" (or not say anything) then the benefit of the doubt goes to him...


I know there's a bunch of other crap you said to rationalize this casual little endorsement of marital rape, but I didn't bother reading it. Go to hell.
 
2012-07-20 02:09:41 AM  

Marcus Aurelius:

That wasn't all that amusing the first time, Daniel.


home.roadrunner.com
 
Displayed 50 of 396 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report