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(STLToday)   In Missouri, being an illegal immigrant gives someone else the right to adopt your child away from you. USA USA   (stltoday.com) divider line 322
    More: Sad, United States, Missouri, illegal immigrants, Greene County, U.S. Immigration, welfare system, Guatemalan, George A. Romero  
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14197 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jul 2012 at 6:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-19 01:39:10 PM  
But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?
 
2012-07-19 01:55:20 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?


Depends on how she got here. If she snuck across the border, she's an illegal immigrant. If she overstayed a visa, she's merely undocumented.
 
2012-07-19 01:57:07 PM  
It's a new way to create anchor babies.

The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?


Yes. You are right. Because it doesn't.

And FTFA: "The couple have raised the boy since he was an infant" because the mother ABANDONED him.
 
2012-07-19 02:05:14 PM  

pudding7: Depends on how she got here.


*facepalm*
 
2012-07-19 02:07:14 PM  

Ricardo Klement: It's a new way to create anchor babies.

The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?

Yes. You are right. Because it doesn't.

And FTFA: "The couple have raised the boy since he was an infant" because the mother ABANDONED him.


she did not abondon him she gave him to her family who then sold him.
 
2012-07-19 02:13:30 PM  
Sad.

Ricardo Klement: It's a new way to create anchor babies.

The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?

Yes. You are right. Because it doesn't.

And FTFA: "The couple have raised the boy since he was an infant" because the mother ABANDONED him.


She didn't abandon him, she was in prison for being an illegal immigrant.
 
2012-07-19 02:19:16 PM  

Ricardo Klement: It's a new way to create anchor babies.

The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?

Yes. You are right. Because it doesn't.

And FTFA: "The couple have raised the boy since he was an infant" because the mother ABANDONED him.


And if you read just a few paragraphs further:

Attorneys for Romero, who does not speak English, said she was not given proper legal counsel or proper communication with the court, nor did she fully understand her rights and the proceedings of the juvenile courts and the adoption process.

They further argued that she served two years in prison away from her child for violating a law that was determined unconstitutional by the Supreme Court shortly after she was incarcerated.
 
2012-07-19 03:21:34 PM  
Whoa.

I hope that the State Department steps in here, this could cause problems if other countries decided they are going to follow our lead and do this to OUR citizens overseas.
 
2012-07-19 03:28:45 PM  
What the actual fark?
 
2012-07-19 03:37:57 PM  
Hurray for farked up kids!
 
2012-07-19 03:39:32 PM  
The weirdest part is that while she was in jail, her family members arranged a private adoption. How did they pull that off legally?
 
2012-07-19 03:39:54 PM  
The case garnered international attention in 2008 after Romero challenged the Mosers' adoption of the child. At the time of the adoption, Romero was in detention awaiting potential deportation to Guatemala after being arrested in May 2007 during a raid on illegal workers at a poultry plant in Barry County.
While Romero was in custody, her child, an infant at the time, was passed around among family members before eventually being adopted privately by the Mosers. That adoption was overturned in the appellate court.
The decision Wednesday follows the January 2011 Missouri Supreme Court ruling that sent the case back to the circuit courts after finding that the mother's rights had not been upheld in a Jasper County court.
During that Supreme Court hearing, the Mosers argued that even if their adoption wasn't proper - which was key to Romero's case - it wouldn't be in the best interest of the child to take him away from the parents he knows now and send him to another country.


So the Mosers knew back in '08 that there was some shadiness in this adoption process but went ahead anyway? Also, the adoption was so shifty as to be overturned in a court? F*ck them.
 
2012-07-19 03:40:29 PM  
Finders keepers, losers weepers.

The 5 year old kid has been with the adoptive parents since he was an infant.
 
2012-07-19 03:42:57 PM  

coco ebert: So the Mosers knew back in '08 that there was some shadiness in this adoption process but went ahead anyway? Also, the adoption was so shifty as to be overturned in a court? F*ck them.


Also, this woman is such a danger to society that she needs to be imprisoned and separated from her infant child for years?
 
2012-07-19 03:44:44 PM  

vernonFL: coco ebert: So the Mosers knew back in '08 that there was some shadiness in this adoption process but went ahead anyway? Also, the adoption was so shifty as to be overturned in a court? F*ck them.

Also, this woman is such a danger to society that she needs to be imprisoned and separated from her infant child for years?


Immigrant. We don't treat them like human beings in America.
 
2012-07-19 03:46:35 PM  
Ya, adoption was shady 'private adoption' sounds like money was exchanged between families. But 'what's best for the kid now' was the driver behind the judge's decision. Rip him out of the only home and parents he's ever known and send him and his poor mother back to Guatemala.... that doesn't sound like it gives this American citizen the best opportunities.
 
2012-07-19 03:47:15 PM  
Imagine the shiatstorm if this happened to an American citizen in some other country?

There would be a Lifetime movie about it - starring Sally Field and Joanna Kerns.
 
2012-07-19 03:48:49 PM  
During that Supreme Court hearing, the Mosers argued that even if their adoption wasn't proper - which was key to Romero's case - it wouldn't be in the best interest of the child to take him away from the parents he knows now and send him to another country.

The boy, who is a citizen of both the U.S. and Guatemala, speaks only English.

Attorneys for Romero, who does not speak English, said she was not given proper legal counsel or proper communication with the court, nor did she fully understand her rights and the proceedings of the juvenile courts and the adoption process.

They further argued that she served two years in prison away from her child for violating a law that was determined unconstitutional by the Supreme Court shortly after she was incarcerated.


What a mess.

That kid will learn the truth, one day. And he won't be happy.
 
2012-07-19 03:54:19 PM  

vernonFL: coco ebert: So the Mosers knew back in '08 that there was some shadiness in this adoption process but went ahead anyway? Also, the adoption was so shifty as to be overturned in a court? F*ck them.

Also, this woman is such a danger to society that she needs to be imprisoned and separated from her infant child for years?


Oh, you're right. I didn't even go into that aspect of it, not to mention that by imprisoning people AND deporting them, you're essentially punishing them twice for a "crime", which is supposed to be illegal in this country.
 
2012-07-19 03:55:33 PM  

netizencain: Ya, adoption was shady 'private adoption' sounds like money was exchanged between families. But 'what's best for the kid now' was the driver behind the judge's decision. Rip him out of the only home and parents he's ever known and send him and his poor mother back to Guatemala.... that doesn't sound like it gives this American citizen the best opportunities.


Why not let her stay and raise her kid here? She's already served time.
 
2012-07-19 03:58:39 PM  

vernonFL: Imagine the shiatstorm if this happened to an American citizen in some other country?

There would be a Lifetime movie about it - starring Sally Field and Joanna Kerns.


I've never heard of an American illegally sneaking into another country for a better life. Unless of course they're a wanted fugitive.
 
2012-07-19 04:03:10 PM  

Mark Ratner: vernonFL: Imagine the shiatstorm if this happened to an American citizen in some other country?

There would be a Lifetime movie about it - starring Sally Field and Joanna Kerns.

I've never heard of an American illegally sneaking into another country for a better life. Unless of course they're a wanted fugitive.


Expired visas? It happens.
 
2012-07-19 04:04:13 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Mark Ratner: vernonFL: Imagine the shiatstorm if this happened to an American citizen in some other country?

There would be a Lifetime movie about it - starring Sally Field and Joanna Kerns.

I've never heard of an American illegally sneaking into another country for a better life. Unless of course they're a wanted fugitive.

Expired visas? It happens.


Also, working under the table to fuel an expat lifestyle? Its also happens... a lot.
 
2012-07-19 04:04:32 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: pudding7: Depends on how she got here.

*facepalm*


As was pointed out (possibly by you, if my memory serves) in a thread a few weeks ago, it's not a crime to be in the country without proper documentation. It is however a crime to cross the border without authorization.

So whether they are criminals or not depends on how they got here.

This isn't my argument, I personally have no problem calling anyone who isn't supposed to be in this country "illegal". It's the argument used by the "don't call them illegal!" crowd.
 
2012-07-19 04:11:36 PM  
Illegal or not, she's a human being, and so was her infant child.

I don't care if she is serial killer, you shouldn't separate an infant from their mother.
 
2012-07-19 04:16:33 PM  

vernonFL: Illegal or not, she's a human being, and so was her infant child.

I don't care if she is serial killer, you shouldn't separate an infant from their mother.


You lost me with that last sentence.
 
2012-07-19 04:17:20 PM  
it takes a special kind of asshole to sell your family member's child to a couple of strangers while that family member is in jail.

also, are "private adoptions" even legal?
 
2012-07-19 04:18:22 PM  

coco ebert: Nadie_AZ: Mark Ratner: vernonFL: Imagine the shiatstorm if this happened to an American citizen in some other country?

There would be a Lifetime movie about it - starring Sally Field and Joanna Kerns.

I've never heard of an American illegally sneaking into another country for a better life. Unless of course they're a wanted fugitive.

Expired visas? It happens.

Also, working under the table to fuel an expat lifestyle? Its also happens... a lot.


Nadie and you could be right. Makes sense. I'm wrong, I admit it.
 
2012-07-19 04:19:07 PM  

Mark Ratner: coco ebert: Nadie_AZ: Mark Ratner: vernonFL: Imagine the shiatstorm if this happened to an American citizen in some other country?

There would be a Lifetime movie about it - starring Sally Field and Joanna Kerns.

I've never heard of an American illegally sneaking into another country for a better life. Unless of course they're a wanted fugitive.

Expired visas? It happens.

Also, working under the table to fuel an expat lifestyle? Its also happens... a lot.

Nadie and you could be right. Makes sense. I'm wrong, I admit it.


Eh, no worries.
 
2012-07-19 04:21:09 PM  
What a clusterfark. There is no good outcome here that would be fair for all parties. Still, that kid has been with the adoptive parents since he was an infant. It would likely be severely traumatic for him to be removed from their custody now.

In any case, whoever set up this shady 'private adoption' should be prosecuted for human trafficking or some such. Same goes for biomom's family members, who essentially sold her son. And if the adoptive parents are discovered to have been knowingly complicit in that (knowing what they were doing was against the law), they sure as hell shouldn't be rewarded by getting to keep the kid. Sad story.
 
2012-07-19 04:26:46 PM  
Yeah, I really, really don't think there should be a four-year statute of limitations on the illegal kidnapping of an infant.
 
2012-07-19 04:28:37 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?


This is such a bizarre argument people make.

Are they legal immigrants? No? Then they are illegal immigrants. Case closed. Be outraged at something that is sensible.
 
2012-07-19 04:30:18 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?

This is such a bizarre argument people make.

Are they legal immigrants? No? Then they are illegal immigrants. Case closed. Be outraged at something that is sensible.


The point is that it becomes what they are. You never refer to someone as "Legal immigrant X".
 
2012-07-19 04:34:01 PM  

kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?

This is such a bizarre argument people make.

Are they legal immigrants? No? Then they are illegal immigrants. Case closed. Be outraged at something that is sensible.

The point is that it becomes what they are. You never refer to someone as "Legal immigrant X".


Because the assumption is that the normal state of an immigrant is legal. You don't say non-President of the United States Bob Anderson, either.

/and if they *are* here illegally, then it IS what they are
 
2012-07-19 04:42:26 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /and if they *are* here illegally, then it IS what they are


Do we have to run over again how being here without papers isn't actually a crime? Oh, and how there is no level of illegal behavior (and certainly non as non-violent as IMMIGRATION) that results in a person being stripped of their constitutional protections?

Oh, and how the constitution applies to 100% of the humans existing on US territory at any given moment, no matter what?
 
2012-07-19 04:44:39 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Mark Ratner: coco ebert: Nadie_AZ: Mark Ratner: vernonFL: Imagine the shiatstorm if this happened to an American citizen in some other country?

There would be a Lifetime movie about it - starring Sally Field and Joanna Kerns.

I've never heard of an American illegally sneaking into another country for a better life. Unless of course they're a wanted fugitive.

Expired visas? It happens.

Also, working under the table to fuel an expat lifestyle? Its also happens... a lot.

Nadie and you could be right. Makes sense. I'm wrong, I admit it.

Eh, no worries.


Word.
 
2012-07-19 04:46:34 PM  

kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /and if they *are* here illegally, then it IS what they are

Do we have to run over again how being here without papers isn't actually a crime? Oh, and how there is no level of illegal behavior (and certainly non as non-violent as IMMIGRATION) that results in a person being stripped of their constitutional protections?

Oh, and how the constitution applies to 100% of the humans existing on US territory at any given moment, no matter what?


You can try and obfuscate the issue all you want with unrelated statements.

If they did not go through the proper immigration channels that are in place today, then they are here illegally.

If you really think that just being here makes them legal immigrants then you can talk to the folks who get deported (without any non-Orly court challenge to the process by any side) every day for not being here legally.
 
2012-07-19 04:46:53 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?

This is such a bizarre argument people make.

Are they legal immigrants? No? Then they are illegal immigrants. Case closed. Be outraged at something that is sensible.

The point is that it becomes what they are. You never refer to someone as "Legal immigrant X".

Because the assumption is that the normal state of an immigrant is legal. You don't say non-President of the United States Bob Anderson, either.

/and if they *are* here illegally, then it IS what they are


Why are we so selective with labeling particular groups of perpetrators as illegal and others not? If your sole reason is that they are committing illegal acts, then why don't we refer to jaywalkers as criminal pedestrians, or people going over the speed limit as illegal drivers?
 
2012-07-19 04:48:43 PM  

coco ebert: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The My Little Pony Killer: But calling them illegal doesn't dehumanize them at all, amirite?

This is such a bizarre argument people make.

Are they legal immigrants? No? Then they are illegal immigrants. Case closed. Be outraged at something that is sensible.

The point is that it becomes what they are. You never refer to someone as "Legal immigrant X".

Because the assumption is that the normal state of an immigrant is legal. You don't say non-President of the United States Bob Anderson, either.

/and if they *are* here illegally, then it IS what they are

Why are we so selective with labeling particular groups of perpetrators as illegal and others not? If your sole reason is that they are committing illegal acts, then why don't we refer to jaywalkers as criminal pedestrians, or people going over the speed limit as illegal drivers?


Irrelevant. They are still illegal immigrants.

You are arguing things that exist around the actual fact of the matter.

/and being in a country illegally is a much, much, much bigger deal than jaywalking or speeding
//and the US is a lot nicer about it than most countries
 
2012-07-19 04:57:48 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /and being in a country illegally is a much, much, much bigger deal than jaywalking or speeding
//and the US is a lot nicer about it than most countries


Reckless speeding causes much more hardship every year than being here without validdocumentation. It's significantly more serious.
 
2012-07-19 05:02:18 PM  

kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /and being in a country illegally is a much, much, much bigger deal than jaywalking or speeding
//and the US is a lot nicer about it than most countries

Reckless speeding causes much more hardship every year than being here without validdocumentation. It's significantly more serious.


You have my permission to call them Illegal Speeders, if that makes you feel better.

But they're still illegal immigrants and that is proper terminology for them.
 
2012-07-19 05:05:09 PM  

kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /and being in a country illegally is a much, much, much bigger deal than jaywalking or speeding
//and the US is a lot nicer about it than most countries

Reckless speeding causes much more hardship every year than being here without validdocumentation. It's significantly more serious.


Also, I would disagree that it causes more hardship, but probably not for the reasons that you think I do.

But, then again, it seems like you believe we should just let people wander in and out at will with no real oversight of the process, so... let me know how that works for you.
 
2012-07-19 05:05:57 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /and being in a country illegally is a much, much, much bigger deal than jaywalking or speeding
//and the US is a lot nicer about it than most countries

Reckless speeding causes much more hardship every year than being here without validdocumentation. It's significantly more serious.

You have my permission to call them Illegal Speeders, if that makes you feel better.

But they're still illegal immigrants and that is proper terminology for them.


The point is that you don't give a shiat about speeding, but are getting noticeably upset about the idea of allowing 'illegal immigrants' to just be motherfarking people.
 
2012-07-19 05:07:14 PM  

kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: kingoomieiii: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /and being in a country illegally is a much, much, much bigger deal than jaywalking or speeding
//and the US is a lot nicer about it than most countries

Reckless speeding causes much more hardship every year than being here without validdocumentation. It's significantly more serious.

You have my permission to call them Illegal Speeders, if that makes you feel better.

But they're still illegal immigrants and that is proper terminology for them.

The point is that you don't give a shiat about speeding, but are getting noticeably upset about the idea of allowing 'illegal immigrants' to just be motherfarking people.


They are people.

They are also illegal immigrants.

I don't know what is broken in your brain that doesn't allow you to reconcile those two things.
 
2012-07-19 05:09:29 PM  

Mark Ratner: I've never heard of an American illegally sneaking into another country for a better life. Unless of course they're a wanted fugitive.


I know a guy from Nebraska who is illegally working and living in Australia. And he wasn't a fugitive so much as, you know, Nebraska. Another guy I knew was working illegally in Canada for awhile after college. it happens.
 
2012-07-19 05:10:56 PM  

thomps: it takes a special kind of asshole to sell your family member's child to a couple of strangers while that family member is in jail.

also, are "private adoptions" even legal?


If so, does someone have a 17 year old Selma Hayek look alike that needs adopting?
 
2012-07-19 05:12:31 PM  
Oh goodie we are arguing the semantics of their immigration status again, what a fun thread that was. Sorry, they are in violation of US immigration law, if the title "illegal immigrant" isn't appropriate than we would not be a nation in serious need of immigration reform. But go ahead and feel bad calling them what the law defines them as and obfuscate the real issue with bleeding hearts and wretched farts.
 
2012-07-19 05:14:42 PM  
There can be two things

1) the correct term is illegal immigrant
2) people that bleat about how they are destroying america are farking idiots
 
2012-07-19 05:18:37 PM  

violentsalvation: Oh goodie we are arguing the semantics of their immigration status again, what a fun thread that was. Sorry, they are in violation of US immigration law, if the title "illegal immigrant" isn't appropriate than we would not be a nation in serious need of immigration reform. But go ahead and feel bad calling them what the law defines them as and obfuscate the real issue with bleeding hearts and wretched farts.


Just to recap the idiocy from the aforementioned thread:

When you call someone 'an illegal' when you're not even talking about that person's particular immigration status, it reveals an unreasoning bias. It's that simple. Most of us have broken the law, but you don't refer to the average joe as 'a criminal', even though it's what the law defines them as.
 
2012-07-19 05:25:55 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: The weirdest part is that while she was in jail, her family members arranged a private adoption. How did they pull that off legally?


"While Romero was in custody, her child, an infant at the time, was passed around among family members before eventually being adopted privately by the Mosers." (End of the paragraph).

Yes, more details are necessary on this.
 
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