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(Talking Points Memo)   Mitt Romney's inability to take a firm stance or have an opinion not only gives Barack Obama ammunition to call him an indecisive leader, it also proves we have yet to perfect robotics   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 60
    More: Spiffy, Mitt Romney, obama, Republican nominee, audio feedback, ammunition, carbon sequestration  
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1438 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jul 2012 at 1:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-19 09:24:47 AM
It's not a bug, it's a feature.
 
2012-07-19 10:24:44 AM
www.thinkgeek.com
 
2012-07-19 10:28:52 AM
Hey asshole, you try building a multi-state artificial intelligence decision engine on a titanium frame covered with cloned human skin and a firm handshake that has yet to completely break down despite being on the road for over a year with just 12000 network nodes and 3 TB of in-database memory and an ability to identify sugary drinks, types of wine, and dressage horses. You let me know how that goes.

Not...not that I know anything about that.
 
2012-07-19 10:43:10 AM
Romney's not doing very good, is he?
 
2012-07-19 10:43:54 AM
To be fair, quantum computing is still a very young and undeveloped science.

What I'm noticing is that the Romney campaign simply can't define their candidate. What does the Romney camp do every time Obama lands a punch? They react. They cry "you too, but worse." They respond on Obama's terms. That seems incredibly weak to me.

Best example at the moment is the Obama camp's ad with Romney singing (poorly) and digging on him for outsourcing. Romney camp attempts to counter by using an ad with Obama singing (well), but the ad had to be dropped because of copyright issues. And they intend to fight to be able to use it again! Instead of coming up with a better attack of their own design.

He can't act first. He's not proactive. He's completely reactive.

Abuse a dog? So what, Obama may have eaten dog when he was like 6. They're exactly the same so it's a non-issue.

Gather a posse of teens to hold down a kid and shave his head when you were in private school? So what, Obama may have pushed a little girl on a playground when he was in kindergarten. A little WHITE girl. They're exactly the same so it's a non-issue.

Obama appearing in Mass.? Well Romney will appear at Solyndra. The predictability is hilarious.

So what is the precise source of Romney's weakness? Is it lack of creativity? Why doesn't he just ignore the particular attacks, deny or ignore the narrative, and come up with a better one of your own?

Because Romney just can't stand anyone getting the better of him. He has to react. He can't resist. And that is the weakness that Obama is exploiting. And Romney thus far has taken the bait every single time.
 
2012-07-19 10:56:35 AM

Weaver95: Romney's not doing very good, is he?


he's got b. HUSSAIN 0b0ng0 rights where he wants him. it's all part of the high potentate Governor Mittford Romney's plan to get rid of the empty suit kenyen usurper who's trying to destroy the very fabric of our once great country.
 
2012-07-19 10:57:58 AM
Mitt can too take a firm stance

/maybe
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-19 11:21:04 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mitt can too take a firm stance

/maybe


He seems to firmly believe that releasing his tax returns will sink his campaign.
 
2012-07-19 11:27:22 AM

vpb: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mitt can too take a firm stance

/maybe

He seems to firmly believe that releasing his tax returns will sink his campaign.


His stance on lemonade also seems pretty solid
 
2012-07-19 11:38:04 AM
Can't we all be proud that a robot has made it through the primaries? This is a great achievement for science.
 
2012-07-19 11:45:56 AM
"Hello, Mr. Romney! This is Vodka Zombie from the Fark Daily Globe and Nutsack. Yes. My question is, Where do you stand on where you stand?"
 
2012-07-19 12:15:54 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: vpb: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mitt can too take a firm stance

/maybe

He seems to firmly believe that releasing his tax returns will sink his campaign.

His stance on lemonade also seems pretty solid


It's not that anything is illegal there. I don't think that his accountants are that incompetent.

What it will show is who he has been profiting from, and what he really supports. Which is, anything that will get him cash. It will expose who he has been in bed with, and I suspect that is really what he fears. PACs don't have to disclose as much as campaigns, but folks are going to be able to connect dots fairly quickly with who has made deals with, who has given him money directly, and that is not going to be pleasant for him.

Money is speech, as folks have been so keen to point out. Mitt is afraid people might just listen to what he's had to say...
 
2012-07-19 12:59:15 PM

hubiestubert: It's not that anything is illegal there. I don't think that his accountants are that incompetent.

What it will show is who he has been profiting from, and what he really supports. Which is, anything that will get him cash. It will expose who he has been in bed with, and I suspect that is really what he fears. PACs don't have to disclose as much as campaigns, but folks are going to be able to connect dots fairly quickly with who has made deals with, who has given him money directly, and that is not going to be pleasant for him.

Money is speech, as folks have been so keen to point out. Mitt is afraid people might just listen to what he's had to say...



I don't think that's the big problem. The big problem, is that Obama has been fighting to raise taxes on the 1%, and if Mitt Romney's returns become public, he can show how little people like Romney actually pay in taxes, and the absurd types of deductions and tax credits he can have, compared to the tax credits the average middle class guy can claim.


For instance, the interest you pay on a student loan is deductible, but only if you make less than $75,000 ($150k for married filing jointly), but the mortgage deductible is never capped.

The Romney's own many homes. I would be shocked if they don't have a bunch of those homes on a Schedule E as "real estate/rental property" that made zero dollars in rent, and they write off "depreciation", electricity, maintenance etc etc etc.

It's TECHNICALLY legal if you didn't live in the house x days of the year. You state that you INTENDED to rent the house, or that you CONSIDERED renting the house, and you can do this.
 
2012-07-19 01:06:08 PM

what_now:
I don't think that's the big problem. The big problem, is that Obama has been fighting to raise taxes on the 1%, and if Mitt Romney's returns become public, he can show how little people like Romney actually pay in taxes, and the absurd types of deductions and tax credits he can have, compared to the tax credits the average middle class guy can claim.
.


Romney also seems to be trying very hard to NOT have a discussion on how he actually ran Bain capital, or how he and his 1% buddies make oodles of cash when they ship jobs overseas and/or simply destroy otherwise healthy companies. if people really understood just how f*cked up wall street is these days, they'd have real issues with voting republican.
 
2012-07-19 01:19:11 PM

Weaver95: what_now:
I don't think that's the big problem. The big problem, is that Obama has been fighting to raise taxes on the 1%, and if Mitt Romney's returns become public, he can show how little people like Romney actually pay in taxes, and the absurd types of deductions and tax credits he can have, compared to the tax credits the average middle class guy can claim.
.

Romney also seems to be trying very hard to NOT have a discussion on how he actually ran Bain capital, or how he and his 1% buddies make oodles of cash when they ship jobs overseas and/or simply destroy otherwise healthy companies. if people really understood just how f*cked up wall street is these days, they'd have real issues with voting republican.


"Revere me because I say so and don't ask any questions."

It sounds better in the original Wizard of Oz.
 
2012-07-19 01:30:30 PM

Diogenes: Weaver95: what_now:
I don't think that's the big problem. The big problem, is that Obama has been fighting to raise taxes on the 1%, and if Mitt Romney's returns become public, he can show how little people like Romney actually pay in taxes, and the absurd types of deductions and tax credits he can have, compared to the tax credits the average middle class guy can claim.
.

Romney also seems to be trying very hard to NOT have a discussion on how he actually ran Bain capital, or how he and his 1% buddies make oodles of cash when they ship jobs overseas and/or simply destroy otherwise healthy companies. if people really understood just how f*cked up wall street is these days, they'd have real issues with voting republican.

"Revere me because I say so and don't ask any questions."

It sounds better in the original Wizard of Oz.


well, I think the 1% were a bit disturbed by the whole 'Occupy' movement. sure, they mocked the hell out of them, then tried to ignore 'em...but they also didn't want the peasants getting uppity (its bad for business). Now along comes this issue with Romney's tax returns and the dust up over Bain capital...it echos the OWS protests of last summer. I think it's starting to bother some of the 1% types that not everyone worships the ground they walk on.
 
2012-07-19 01:55:41 PM

Diogenes: if people really understood


Well there's your problem...
 
2012-07-19 02:03:08 PM
This unit seems to work fine in water.

i.huffpost.com
 
2012-07-19 02:06:43 PM

Weaver95: Romney's not doing very good, is he?


He doesn't have to.

All he needs is for Congress to kill any possible bill that might improve the economy and for his stable of billionaires to keep writing eight figure checks to various SuperPACs. Presidential reelections really do hang on the economy, and for all that it's better than it was during the end of the Bush years it's still not great and won't be gaining hugely anytime soon. A billion dollars worth of TV ads pointing out that the economy still isn't all hope and rainbows and kittens will keep this race a statistical dead heat through November, no matter how much of a schmuck Romney is.
 
2012-07-19 02:08:20 PM

bdub77: Hey asshole, you try building a multi-state artificial intelligence decision engine on a titanium frame covered with cloned human skin and a firm handshake that has yet to completely break down despite being on the road for over a year with just 12000 network nodes and 3 TB of in-database memory and an ability to identify sugary drinks, types of wine, and dressage horses. You let me know how that goes.

Not...not that I know anything about that.


Is not coltan preferred to titanium, due to increased heat resistance?
 
2012-07-19 02:10:49 PM

Weaver95: what_now:
I don't think that's the big problem. The big problem, is that Obama has been fighting to raise taxes on the 1%, and if Mitt Romney's returns become public, he can show how little people like Romney actually pay in taxes, and the absurd types of deductions and tax credits he can have, compared to the tax credits the average middle class guy can claim.

Romney also seems to be trying very hard to NOT have a discussion on how he actually ran Bain capital, or how he and his 1% buddies make oodles of cash when they ship jobs overseas and/or simply destroy otherwise healthy companies. if people really understood just how f*cked up wall street is these days, they'd have real issues with voting republican.


They don't care about how farked up Wall Street is. I have point blank asked Prosperity Gospel thumpers how they would assess the risk in a synthetic CDO or if they could describe tax arbitrage and dividend recapitalization for me (all of which I'm somewhat familiar with and trying to learn more about), and they inevitably dodge the question and insist that government is the problem and always will be the problem. They're deluded and far beyond the realm of facts affecting their judgment.
 
2012-07-19 02:11:12 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: His stance on lemonade also seems pretty solid


Let's wait this out a bit. He might come out against lemonade as "dry, bad" next week.
 
2012-07-19 02:11:51 PM
Romney, if you keep hiding your finances and dodging questions about your time as CEO of Bain, we're just going to assume the worst. No matter what the truth is, it's probably less damaging that what everyone is assuming right now.

Keeping your mouth shut won't win you the presidency, period.
 
2012-07-19 02:13:59 PM

Diogenes: He can't act first. He's not proactive. He's completely reactive.


Reactionaries are acting completely without foresight? The hell you say!
 
2012-07-19 02:15:10 PM

Arkanaut: MaudlinMutantMollusk: His stance on lemonade also seems pretty solid

Let's wait this out a bit. He might come out against lemonade as "dry, bad" next week.


Be careful. He might throw us a curveball and come out for limes or grapefruits.
 
2012-07-19 02:20:21 PM

NateGrey: This unit seems to work fine in water.

[i.huffpost.com image 850x566]


Fixed.

i865.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-19 02:20:51 PM

hubiestubert: It's not that anything is illegal there. I don't think that his accountants are that incompetent.


Of course there wasn't anything illegal -- in the years they were filed. There's a possibility that some of the legal/accounting dodges were made illegal afterwards, and that might look bad for Mitt.

Another possibility that I've been wondering about is whether he's done something with the Church of Latter Day Saints as a tax dodge. There was an article from a little while ago about the Church basically running businesses but not paying taxes on them because they're owned by the Church -- maybe Romney's taken advantage of the Church at some point? Something that would look bad for him if it came out in public? Whatever, just idle speculation.
 
2012-07-19 02:25:03 PM
img526.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-19 02:33:06 PM
Romney's positions are as firm as 0bama's from 2008. He is the anti-incumbent, just as 0bama was the anti-GOP, no more Bush policies.

Since then, 0bama has been flexible and evolved his positions and didn't fight as hard for things he said back then. Just a different version of a typical pandering politician who changes positions after getting elected. Romney is just doing the same.
 
2012-07-19 02:34:22 PM
Trying to get a firm stance out of Romney on any topic is somewhat akin to trying to nail jello cubes to the wall only, you know, way more frustrating.
 
2012-07-19 02:37:24 PM

red5ish: [img526.imageshack.us image 565x377]


That looks like a steampunk version of the Borg Queen.
 
2012-07-19 02:39:02 PM
*Tapping noises*

cache.gawker.com

O Hai guiz, did I hear someone say "firm stance"?


/Only the link is hot.
 
2012-07-19 02:40:03 PM

Weaver95: Romney's not doing very good, is he?


Yeah he's getting his ass kicked on Fark.

In the real world he's pretty much statistically tied with the President. But on Fark, totally sucking it up.

Also his tax plan is bullshiat. No wonder they aren't putting out ads trumpeting that.
 
2012-07-19 03:04:08 PM
Romney should claim he has a secret plan, it worked for Nixon
 
2012-07-19 03:04:41 PM

Bermuda59: Romney should claim he has a secret plan, it worked for Nixon


just like "hope and change" worked for 0bama.
 
2012-07-19 03:05:02 PM
Since when did the Politics tab on Fark become a reposting aggregator of TPM stories? This is getting ridiculous.

It's just another silly little hit piece on Romney. It's just another sign that the Obama campaign is reading the writing on the wall and is hoping that a shotgun-style approach will work against Romney. They're doing what all desperate candidates do: fling mud in the hope that it will suppress the other guy's numbers.

Meanwhile, Romney's been relentlessly talking about job growth and the economy, the issues that actually matter to voters. Now, I think that he will eventually need to flesh out the specifics of some of his plans, but doing it now when very few are paying attention doesn't really matter.

Romney's message is straightforward: we need to cut government spending, we need to remove unnecessary regulations, we need to cut taxes (especially corporate taxes) and we need to do the things that stimulate private job growth. It's the job market, stupid. We tried the Obama approach already: top-down "stimulus" and it didn't work to reduce unemployment. Now it's time to do the things that have worked. What Kennedy did to end the 1960 downturn. What Reagan did to end the 1980 economic downturn. What Bush did to end the 2000 economic downturn. What even Bill Clinton did in 1996 - cut taxes on investment and reduce barriers to job growth.

It's funny to hear the constant, tired talking point that "MITT RMONEY WOULD DO WHAT BUSH DID!!!!11!!11one!!!!eleventy!!!11!1" Because through most of Bush's term in office unemployment was in the 5% range, economic growth was healthy, and the American public weren't thinking that their children wouldn't inherit the kind of country we now enjoy. Bush had the bad luck of being in office when the shiat finally hit the fan (and he bears a small part of the blame for not doing more to stop it), but had a few events played out more slowly Obama or McCain could have been the one holding the bag. Hell, going back to the policies of the Bush years would be far better than what we have now - even though Bush was atrocious on spending, he wasn't nearly as bad as Obama has been. (And if you believe that "1.3% increase in spending" line, you're an idiot - it specifically ignores the effectt of ARRA on spending.)

So yes, Romney does stand for a return to the Bush years - the Bush years where GDP growth was heading towards a healthy 4%, unemployment was under 5%, and the American economy was vibrant. If Obama wants to argue those days were so terrible, let him - because two thirds of this country think they're either no better off or worse off now than they were four years ago. It's a debate I suspect Romney would love to have.
 
2012-07-19 03:06:08 PM
But he's whatever you want him to be! Even if you and your friend are on opposite sides!
 
2012-07-19 03:15:18 PM

WombatControl: So yes, Romney does stand for a return to the Bush years - the Bush years where GDP growth was heading towards a healthy 4%, unemployment was under 5%, and the American economy was vibrant. If Obama wants to argue those days were so terrible, let him - because two thirds of this country think they're either no better off or worse off now than they were four years ago. It's a debate I suspect Romney would love to have.


Yes, promising a return to the Bush years is a winning strategy. Romney would be a complete fool not to use that exact phrase in every commercial, add and stump speech. He must attach himself to the greatest President of the last century as closely as possible.
 
2012-07-19 03:16:13 PM

WombatControl: Meanwhile, Romney's been relentlessly talking about job growth and the economy, the issues that actually matter to voters. Now, I think that he will eventually need to flesh out the specifics of some of his plans, but doing it now when very few are paying attention doesn't really matter


yeah, i thought that is historically done after the convention. Some teasers in the convention and then more in September and October when voters actually start to pay attention.

Sure, the die hards on both sides pay a lot of attention now to every little detail and every nuance. But nothing that happens will affect their vote anyway.

The debates will have some specifics and the ads and such in the last two weeks in October will have more content - but even that will be in sound bite form.

Hope and Change worked for 0bama, this really is no different.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-19 03:19:24 PM

WombatControl: Since when did the Politics tab on Fark become a reposting aggregator of TPM stories? This is getting ridiculous.

It's just another silly little hit piece on Romney. It's just another sign that the Obama campaign is reading the writing on the wall and is hoping that a shotgun-style approach will work against Romney. They're doing what all desperate candidates do: fling mud in the hope that it will suppress the other guy's numbers.

...Obama or McCain could have been the one holding the bag. Hell, going back to the poli ...


Nice try, but even if it weren't for the fact that de-regulation is a Republican policy, Bush was in office for more than SEVEN years before things collapsed.

So good luck with that argument.
 
2012-07-19 03:20:33 PM

WombatControl: Because through most of Bush's term in office unemployment was in the 5% range, economic growth was healthy


Between the end of the 2001 recession (2001Q4) and the peak of that expansion (2007Q4), the U.S. economy experienced the worst economic expansion of the post-war era. Include the crash, and the Bush administration had the worst job and GDP growth of any administration since Eisenhower.

Bush made history with his bad economy. I feel like we do this every day.
 
2012-07-19 03:22:51 PM

js34603: Weaver95: Romney's not doing very good, is he?

Yeah he's getting his ass kicked on Fark.

In the real world he's pretty much statistically tied with the President. But on Fark, totally sucking it up.

Also his tax plan is bullshiat. No wonder they aren't putting out ads trumpeting that.


Romney is now tied with 0bama in Virginia where in March he was down by 8 and down by 5 in June.

But it doesn't matter. It is clear that he lost the Fark vote, and based on the 2010 shellacking, that means he is done for.
 
2012-07-19 03:24:05 PM

ManateeGag: Weaver95: Romney's not doing very good, is he?

he's got b. HUSSAIN 0b0ng0 rights where he wants him. it's all part of the high potentate Governor Mittford Romney's plan to get rid of the empty suit kenyen usurper who's trying to destroy the very fabric of our once great country.


Yeah, death to the ersatz muslin killer!

/man these comments are a lot easier when you don't think about what you're saying.
 
2012-07-19 03:28:44 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Romney is now tied with 0bama in Virginia where in March he was down by 8 and down by 5 in June.


The changes in the weighting of that Quinnipiac poll from June to July:

Indies +4%
Dems -3%
Men +3%
Age >55 +1%
Evangelicals +1%
Military +1%

Tada! Horse race.
 
2012-07-19 03:29:04 PM

WombatControl: Since when did the Politics tab on Fark become a reposting aggregator of TPM stories? This is getting ridiculous.


As opposed to doing the same with TownHall, WorldNetDaily, et. al.?
 
2012-07-19 03:31:51 PM

Weaver95: Romney's not doing very good, is he?


You know Weave, I hate to say it, but the polling data indicates he is still doing ok. Obama would still win if the election were held today, but even though it has been a disasterous month for Romney the polls have not changed at all. Wait 2 months and watch the airwaves get literally flooded with Republican ads by all the super Pacs. Money can make up for a lot of inadequicies.
 
2012-07-19 03:32:51 PM
feministing.com
 
2012-07-19 03:33:46 PM

WombatControl: Since when did the Politics tab on Fark become a reposting aggregator of TPM stories? This is getting ridiculous.


Of the links that have already been posted to the lite side of Fark (I don't have a TF account so I can't check there), 5 are from TPM, 5 are from nominally reactionary or regressive sources, and the others are from nominally unbiased sources. Obviously this is proof that Fark is a breeding ground for Communists who want to nationalize the entire private sector, outlaw all ownership of private property, and publicly murder anyone who even so much as breathes a hint of opposition to this totalitarian dystopic rule.
 
2012-07-19 03:38:46 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: tenpoundsofcheese: Romney is now tied with 0bama in Virginia where in March he was down by 8 and down by 5 in June.

The changes in the weighting of that Quinnipiac poll from June to July:

Indies +4%
Dems -3%
Men +3%
Age >55 +1%
Evangelicals +1%
Military +1%

Tada! Horse race.


why are you assuming the weighting was "correct" in June?
besides, 0bama lost 3 points from March to June. Was that also due to weighting changes?
I thought indies liked 0bama?
 
2012-07-19 03:41:07 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: why are you assuming the weighting was "correct" in June?


I don't know that it was correct, just that it was different.

tenpoundsofcheese: besides, 0bama lost 3 points from March to June. Was that also due to weighting changes?


Couldn't tell you.

tenpoundsofcheese: I thought indies liked 0bama?


Some do. But not as much as Dems, who dropped 3% in that poll.
 
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