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(Independent)   Why is Russia so adamant that the Syrian regime maintain control of Syria? Because if Democracy spills just a bit north, it's in Russian territory... that has always been oppressed by Moscow   (independent.co.uk) divider line 89
    More: Interesting, Russia, Syrians, Russians, Moscow, Baath party, Bashar, democracy, mitochondrial DNA  
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5797 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jul 2012 at 11:57 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-19 06:43:55 AM
Russia already pretends to be a democracy, submitter.

/Weak argument is weak.
 
2012-07-19 07:32:04 AM
What the hell makes anyone think that the system that replaces the Alawites in Syria will be democratic? The Muslim Brotherhood has like an 80% chance of taking over, and about a 5% chance of being democratic. Soo...
 
2012-07-19 08:22:51 AM
Also, Syria is the only Middle East client state Moscow has left.
 
2012-07-19 09:18:31 AM
...Because if Democracy spills just a bit north...

They'll turn Turkey? The nerve of them!
 
2012-07-19 12:00:21 PM
Democracy has unfortunately become a meaningless word, used by politicians of all stripes to get what they want. They don't fear this word, they incorporate it into their plans.
 
2012-07-19 12:00:48 PM
BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!!!!
/wait...
 
2012-07-19 12:01:51 PM
They just don't want to look like hypocrites the next time they rain bombs down on Georgia
 
2012-07-19 12:02:06 PM
Trying hard to find the evidence in TFA to support the headline. Russia already deals with democracy in former Soviet-bloc countries along its borders. This is all about money and prestige in the Middle East. And resisting the West
 
2012-07-19 12:02:37 PM

GAT_00: Also, Syria is the only Middle East client state Moscow has left.


If they had offered the Egyptians 81 tribute, they would've become their client state and they'd be in position to gain another hundred tribute from attacking the OPEC in Middle East, although they'd also lose 75 of the 100 tribute they would've gained from not fighting a battle that turn.
 
2012-07-19 12:03:35 PM

SJKebab: ...Because if Democracy spills just a bit north...

They'll turn Turkey? The nerve of them!


But that's nobody's business but the Turks...
 
2012-07-19 12:05:00 PM
No, because this is a proxy war between Iran and the Saudis over influence in the Middle East. Russia has strong ties with Iran, and if Iran's regional power is weakened, so is Russia's. The US is currently backing the Saudis, Egyptians, and Israelis. Therefore the loss of Syria would make Iran the last power base for Russia and China in the region.
 
2012-07-19 12:05:47 PM

GAT_00: Also, Syria is the only Middle East client state Moscow has left.


Exactly. The last thing they want is for "the new Syria" to be folded into the US hegemony. So they'll try and fix things for as long as they can, and when they can't, they'll get Bashar al-Asaad out of there and put in their own pro-Russian leader.
 
2012-07-19 12:07:13 PM
democracy? do you mean the fake corporate- driven democracy that the US is currently attempting to violently install in the middle east?
 
2012-07-19 12:08:21 PM
www.thekabulcable.com

"We have always been at peace with East Asia."
 
2012-07-19 12:08:22 PM
I can see that Ric Romero is on the case.
 
2012-07-19 12:08:29 PM

wantingout: democracy? do you mean the fake corporate- driven democracy that the US is currently attempting to violently install in the middle east?


no, no, no - a republic, not a democracy
 
2012-07-19 12:11:06 PM

AliceBToklasLives: wantingout: democracy? do you mean the fake corporate- driven democracy that the US is currently attempting to violently install in the middle east?

no, no, no - a republic, not a democracy


No - a FEDERAL republic.

originaldave77.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-19 12:13:58 PM

zulius: SJKebab: ...Because if Democracy spills just a bit north...

They'll turn Turkey? The nerve of them!

But that's nobody's business but the Turks...


The turks are muslim but they hate the sunni and shiates more than they hate the serbs.
 
2012-07-19 12:14:58 PM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: What the hell makes anyone think that the system that replaces the Alawites in Syria will be democratic? The Muslim Brotherhood has like an 80% chance of taking over, and about a 5% chance of being democratic. Soo...


When the brutal dictators like the Shah of Iran, Batista in Cuba, etc are overthrown, we always end up with shining examples of democracy and freedom though.
 
2012-07-19 12:20:01 PM

limeyfellow: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: What the hell makes anyone think that the system that replaces the Alawites in Syria will be democratic? The Muslim Brotherhood has like an 80% chance of taking over, and about a 5% chance of being democratic. Soo...

When the brutal dictators like the Shah of Iran, Batista in Cuba, etc are overthrown, we always end up with shining examples of democracy and freedom though.


Those were our dictators. These are their dictators.
 
2012-07-19 12:23:07 PM

WTF Indeed: No, because this is a proxy war between Iran and the Saudis over influence in the Middle East. Russia has strong ties with Iran, and if Iran's regional power is weakened, so is Russia's. The US is currently backing the Saudis, Egyptians, and Israelis. Therefore the loss of Syria would make Iran the last power base for Russia and China in the region.


Egypt is already lost to the brotherhood. A major war between Israel and Egypt is in our not to distant future.
 
2012-07-19 12:24:14 PM
The last thing Russia and China want to do is go around legitimizing popular uprisings.
 
2012-07-19 12:30:06 PM

Big Man On Campus: Democracy has unfortunately become a meaningless word, used by politicians of all stripes to get what they want. They don't fear this word, they incorporate it into their plans.


"Become"?
 
2012-07-19 12:30:32 PM

pxsteel: Egypt is already lost to the brotherhood. A major war between Israel and Egypt is in our not to distant future.


I doubt it. Hillary was there to bribe them or threaten them into cooperation with Israel. She went straight to Jerusalem after Egypt to essentially tell the Israelis as much.

Israel's focus is, as it has been for decades, Iran.
 
2012-07-19 12:33:42 PM

pxsteel: Egypt is already lost to the brotherhood. A major war between Israel and Egypt is in our not to distant future.


Yeah, they do seem really tired of owning the Sinai.
 
2012-07-19 12:33:45 PM

jakomo002: pxsteel: Egypt is already lost to the brotherhood. A major war between Israel and Egypt is in our not to distant future.

I doubt it. Hillary was there to bribe them or threaten them into cooperation with Israel. She went straight to Jerusalem after Egypt to essentially tell the Israelis as much.

Israel's focus is, as it has been for decades, Iran.


If Iran doesn't want Israel focusing on it, Iran should stop focusing on Israel.
 
2012-07-19 12:34:00 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The last thing Russia and China want to do is go around legitimizing popular uprisings.


Or condemning the use of violence to quiet dissent.

I expect this from China, but I can't figure out Russia's angle. It has been on the wrong side of history from the very beginning of the Arab Spring. Does Putin think that maybe his side can win one and thereby hold onto a deeply dependent ally in the region? Or does he know he's backing a loser and doesn't care because Iran is that important to Russia? I honestly don't get it.

/Russia: losing The Great Game for 99 years.
 
2012-07-19 12:40:50 PM

CavalierEternal: GAT_00: Also, Syria is the only Middle East client state Moscow has left.

If they had offered the Egyptians 81 tribute, they would've become their client state and they'd be in position to gain another hundred tribute from attacking the OPEC in Middle East, although they'd also lose 75 of the 100 tribute they would've gained from not fighting a battle that turn.


I can't decide if you're a bad person for making that out of date reference or I'm a bad person for getting it.
 
2012-07-19 12:43:10 PM
Anything standing in the way of a Greater Israel is a good thing, and that includes Putin. Mid-East nut-jobs clinging to 3000 year old books written by pedophiles need to ALL go the way of the dodo, starting with the most influential.
 
2012-07-19 12:46:18 PM

pxsteel: Egypt is already lost to the brotherhood. A major war between Israel and Egypt is in our not to distant future.


I could be wrong, but I Egypt gets a lot more out of the peace treaty with Israel than Israel does.
 
2012-07-19 12:49:25 PM

czetie: I honestly don't get it.


I'm partly convinced that by backing Syria, and in general finding a way to be a pain and run contrast to what the Western powers generally want in anything, is a way to prolong any dialogue where we frustratingly ask them "okay, what do you want?" and they reply "oh, we don't want anything. BTW, how's Afghanistan going? BWAHAHAHA."

Jerks.
 
2012-07-19 12:51:35 PM

Sgygus: Russia already pretends to be a democracy, submitter.

/Weak argument is weak.


www.sportressofblogitude.com
 
2012-07-19 12:52:08 PM
'Assad owes us a sh*tload of money' too Occam's Razorish for you, subby?
 
2012-07-19 12:52:32 PM
Dumb headline.
 
2012-07-19 12:54:58 PM
What's it called when it's like a democracy, but in order to vote every 4 years you have to pass a basic test covering sociology, history, government and finance. And also have done at least one nice thing for your community in that span.

What's that kind of government called because I want to live there.
 
2012-07-19 12:58:15 PM

zerkalo: Russia already deals with democracy in former Soviet-bloc countries along its borders.


profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2012-07-19 12:59:35 PM
Ultimately, I think it comes down to the ways in which people maintain and hold onto power. The Russian government has, in the past, used methods not to different from Syria's (China's government has been guilty of it much more recently). If a precedent is set that these sorts of abuses cause a government to forfeit its right to govern, these governments fear that they could fall into a catch-22: continuing to use these methods could get them removed from power, but not using these methods could also get them removed from power. Neither path is acceptable to them, so they must prop up other users of these methods as best they can.
 
2012-07-19 01:00:14 PM
HUUmmm, nope, I bet it is the money.
Local crime lords and money and CIA, stir well, foment discontent, fund 1 and 2, pit 1 vs. 2 then take over 1, you know, business as usual.

/Big Money always wins
 
2012-07-19 01:01:36 PM

jiaxiaobo: What's it called when it's like a democracy, but in order to vote every 4 years you have to pass a basic test covering sociology, history, government and finance. And also have done at least one nice thing for your community in that span.

What's that kind of government called because I want to live there.


I believe it's called "Jim Crow" and it was tried already...
 
2012-07-19 01:01:39 PM

jiaxiaobo: What's it called when it's like a democracy, but in order to vote every 4 years you have to pass a basic test covering sociology, history, government and finance. And also have done at least one nice thing for your community in that span.

What's that kind of government called because I want to live there.


When the only people who have any say into what goes into the test are the people who can already pass it? I believe the word you're looking for is "oligarchy."
 
2012-07-19 01:03:52 PM
All you need to call yourself a democracy is a voting event.
Bigger the better.

Free and honest, fuggitaboutit. That would be an illusion, like we have here in USA.
 
2012-07-19 01:05:43 PM

jiaxiaobo: What's it called when it's like a democracy, but in order to vote every 4 years you have to pass a basic test covering sociology, history, government and finance. And also have done at least one nice thing for your community in that span.

What's that kind of government called because I want to live there.


Fantasy.
 
2012-07-19 01:07:33 PM

ChipNASA: BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!!!!
/wait...


More Red than Red?
 
F42
2012-07-19 01:20:24 PM
Why is Russia so adamant that the Syrian regime maintain control of Syria?

Because the only Russian naval base in the Mediterranean is in Syria.

It's that simple.
 
2012-07-19 01:22:33 PM

czetie: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The last thing Russia and China want to do is go around legitimizing popular uprisings.

Or condemning the use of violence to quiet dissent.

I expect this from China, but I can't figure out Russia's angle. It has been on the wrong side of history from the very beginning of the Arab Spring. Does Putin think that maybe his side can win one and thereby hold onto a deeply dependent ally in the region? Or does he know he's backing a loser and doesn't care because Iran is that important to Russia? I honestly don't get it.

/Russia: losing The Great Game for 99 years.


I couldn't have said it better myself. Russia is oppressive as hell, but I guess I was wrong when I thought they were trying to show the world they appeared democratic.
 
2012-07-19 01:24:55 PM
The chances of democracy breaking out in Syria approaches zero.
 
2012-07-19 01:28:17 PM
I wonder if they're going to need a Muslim president, because we're going to have a spare one soon.

www.dashikis.net

"Salaam alaikum, I'm President Hussein."
 
2012-07-19 01:35:25 PM
They are afraid of democracy the overthrow of oppressive regimes in that region's Muslim countries spills north into the Muslim regions of Russia.

It would take a lot of human rights abuses to crush that shiat.
 
2012-07-19 01:41:36 PM

WTF Indeed: No, because this is a proxy war between Iran and the Saudis over influence in the Middle East. Russia has strong ties with Iran, and if Iran's regional power is weakened, so is Russia's. The US is currently backing the Saudis, Egyptians, and Israelis. Therefore the loss of Syria would make Iran the last power base for Russia and China in the region.


And we're done. This is why the U.S. is trying to manufacture an ally-approved pretext for direct involvement in Syria.
 
2012-07-19 01:46:05 PM

FormlessOne: WTF Indeed: No, because this is a proxy war between Iran and the Saudis over influence in the Middle East. Russia has strong ties with Iran, and if Iran's regional power is weakened, so is Russia's. The US is currently backing the Saudis, Egyptians, and Israelis. Therefore the loss of Syria would make Iran the last power base for Russia and China in the region.

And we're done. This is why the U.S. is trying to manufacture an ally-approved pretext for direct involvement in Syria.


So we shouldn't stop human rights abuses?
 
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