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(DNA Info)   There is a three-alarm fire in the mall. You are a security guard. What do you do? C) Don't pull the fire alarm and evacuate the customers since it is against company policy   (dnainfo.com) divider line 52
    More: Asinine, fire alarms  
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9547 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jul 2012 at 10:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-19 10:38:24 AM
Paul Blart?
 
2012-07-19 10:39:13 AM
Actually, subby, it's worse. It's not that they had a policy AGAINST pulling the fire alarm. They just didn't bother to tell their minimum wage workers to do the obvious and smart thing, so their workers didn't bother to alert anyone outside of their immediate reporting chain.
 
2012-07-19 10:40:12 AM
Piazzola said Wednesday that any security workers could have pulled the fire alarms, which are located in public areas of the mall, but they were not required to do so because the company has no policy on when they ought to be pulled.

God, the stupid, it hurts. Here's the policy: IF THERE'S A FIRE PULL THE F*CKING ALARM!
 
2012-07-19 10:41:46 AM
The shocking revelation stunned those who attended the CB1 meeting.

Wait until they attend the CB4 meeting.
 
2012-07-19 10:41:59 AM
It's worse than being against policy- the farkwits refused to pull the fire alarms because they weren't specifically told to do so.

Everyone involved in that "decision" needs to be repeatedly cockpunched.


/"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
 
2012-07-19 10:42:42 AM
I assume people accept a certain amount of personal responsibility when they go to places like this.
 
2012-07-19 10:42:49 AM

Mr Guy: Actually, subby, it's worse. It's not that they had a policy AGAINST pulling the fire alarm. They just didn't bother to tell their minimum wage workers to do the obvious and smart thing, so their workers didn't bother to alert anyone outside of their immediate reporting chain.


That being said, just because there's no policy about pulling them, do they really need to read in the employee manual about pulling a fire alarm in case of a fire? Hell, any customers could have pulled the thing too.
 
2012-07-19 10:42:51 AM
"[Piazzola] seemed to be relying on the fact that next year they're redoing the pier," Hovitz said. "But what happens between now and then?"

Well, Mr. Piazzola, perhaps your building should remain closed until then.

That would have been my response.
 
2012-07-19 10:43:25 AM
At least they won't be fired for not following company policy like those Wal-Mart workers who stop thieves from thieving.

Sadly, in this society, I'm not only not surprised, I kind of expect this stuff to happen now. Red Tape kills.
 
2012-07-19 10:43:43 AM

Walker: Piazzola said Wednesday that any security workers could have pulled the fire alarms, which are located in public areas of the mall, but they were not required to do so because the company has no policy on when they ought to be pulled.

God, the stupid, it hurts. Here's the policy: IF THERE'S A FIRE PULL THE F*CKING ALARM!


I say we let the free market sort this out.
 
2012-07-19 10:44:18 AM
If he had pulled it, we'd be reading that he was fired for not following company policy.
 
2012-07-19 10:45:14 AM
"[Piazzola] seemed to be relying on the fact that next year they're redoing the pier," Hovitz said. "But what happens between now and then?"

Stay the hell out of his building? I'm sure he'll change the calendar if he realizes no one wants to shop in a death trap.
 
2012-07-19 10:45:35 AM
After seeing all the stories here about lifeguards being fired for saving someone outside of their approved stretch of water, fast food workers being fired for foiling a robbery, etc, maybe they were afraid the same thing would happen to them.

Or they are stupid on an epic scale. Either one works.
 
2012-07-19 10:47:42 AM

LarryDan43: If he had pulled it, we'd be reading that he was fired for not following company policy.



Exactly right. He would not have been following proper company procedure and his firing would have been perfectly justifiable.

And the TeaBaggers would have been nodding their heads at the wonders of the free market.
 
2012-07-19 10:50:02 AM

Mr Guy: Actually, subby, it's worse. It's not that they had a policy AGAINST pulling the fire alarm. They just didn't bother to tell their minimum wage workers to do the obvious and smart thing, so their workers didn't bother to alert anyone outside of their immediate reporting chain.



What? It says that FDNY had already been alerted and the local security didn't want to confuse the firefighters by adding another distress call.

If you're in an emergency you do run around yelling "HELP HELP HELP!" if help is already working to assist. You remain calm and attempt to assist by actually helping or staying the hell out of the way.
 
2012-07-19 10:50:22 AM

Ponzholio: Mr Guy: Actually, subby, it's worse. It's not that they had a policy AGAINST pulling the fire alarm. They just didn't bother to tell their minimum wage workers to do the obvious and smart thing, so their workers didn't bother to alert anyone outside of their immediate reporting chain.

That being said, just because there's no policy about pulling them, do they really need to read in the employee manual about pulling a fire alarm in case of a fire? Hell, any customers could have pulled the thing too.


I'd think it moves the blame squarely onto the workers from the company, in terms of liability. I'd think you were right, and by not following what I'd hope a jury would consider a reasonable and obvious safety step of alerting people; I'd hope they are prosecuted for negligence.
 
2012-07-19 10:52:30 AM

HellRaisingHoosier: You remain calm and attempt to assist by actually helping or staying the hell out of the way.


Lead, follow or get out of the way!

/Not Sure
 
2012-07-19 10:54:09 AM

xrayspx: Wait until they attend the CB4 meeting.


You leave the sweat from my balls out of this.
 
2012-07-19 10:55:16 AM
rubmint.com
 
2012-07-19 10:59:24 AM

HellRaisingHoosier: If you're in an emergency you do run around yelling "HELP HELP HELP!" if help is already working to assist. You remain calm and attempt to assist by actually helping or staying the hell out of the way.


Considering that they were really slowly, if at all, telling all the customers on the various floors of the mall that there was a major fire below the structure, I feel that they may have failed in the "assist by actually helping" phase of your plan. There should be an overwhelming urge to get customers the hell out of any burning building, if only from a fear-of-liability standpoint.

And dispatch wouldn't have been confused by a fire alarm... they would have seen the notification and remarked "hey that is probably because of the fire that just got called in, and they're trying to evacuate." What a cop out by the owner!
 
2012-07-19 10:59:29 AM

spentmiles: I assume people accept a certain amount of personal responsibility when they go to places like this.


Until it gets to a court-room.

Employers don't want their employees doing anything on the job that might make the employer liable.

Suppose someone was hurt because they ran away in response to the fire alarm. Who is going to be made to answer for injuring that poor mall patron?

Ridiculous. But ridiculous never stopped a lawyer.
 
2012-07-19 11:01:32 AM
:: looking for lifeguard who was fired for using common sense story ::
 
2012-07-19 11:05:45 AM
Piazzola told a Community Board 1 meeting Tuesday night that the security workers did not want to confuse firefighters by sounding an additional call for help through the alarm system after calling 911, according to several people who attended the meeting.

The three-story pier building also has no public address system, Piazzola added, so the mall was evacuated by word of mouth alone. The shocking revelation stunned those who attended the CB1 meeting.

"Thank God nobody got hurt," John Fratta, chairman of CB1's Seaport/Civic Center Committee, said after the meeting. "We were surprised."


So, nobody got hurt, the fire department was called, the fire was put out, the customers were evacuated.

Maybe, and I'm just speculating here, the mall cops did exactly the right thing. If they'd hit the fire alarm, maybe there would have been panic. Maybe the fire department would have gotten confused. We'll never know. But we do know what they did worked.

As far as 'what if it had been more serious', well, if it had been more serious they would have taken different steps. They didn't need a panicked rush to the doors, so they didn't cause one.
 
2012-07-19 11:06:27 AM
"Piazzola told a Community Board 1 meeting Tuesday night that the security workers did not want to confuse firefighters by sounding an additional call for help through the alarm system after calling 911, according to several people who attended the meeting."

You know, it might come as a shock to him but 911 centers are pretty accustomed to getting multiple calls on the same fire.

I suspect the real answer is that they had an unwritten policy that no action was to be taken until someone checked out the alarm because they're always a false activation (don't want to lose businesses you know).

Except in this case, there was a real fire and everyone proceeded to freak the hell out and thus did nothing.
 
2012-07-19 11:08:49 AM
Howard Hughes Corp., which owns the mall, directs security staff to report fires to their supervisor and the supervisor to report fires directly to the FDNY but does not require any of the staff to pull the fire alarm and alert customers of the need to evacuate, said Michael Piazzola, senior general manager with Howard Hughes Corp.


And they needed to be told to WHY!?
 
2012-07-19 11:11:00 AM
Howard Hughes Corp., which owns the mall, directs security staff to report fires to their supervisor and the supervisor to report fires directly to the FDNY but does not require any of the staff to pull the fire alarm and alert customers of the need to evacuate, said Michael Piazzola, senior general manager with Howard Hughes Corp.

His customers after the fire:
2.bp.blogspot.com
Mmm gooey stretchy.
 
2012-07-19 11:16:09 AM

HellRaisingHoosier: Mr Guy: Actually, subby, it's worse. It's not that they had a policy AGAINST pulling the fire alarm. They just didn't bother to tell their minimum wage workers to do the obvious and smart thing, so their workers didn't bother to alert anyone outside of their immediate reporting chain.


What? It says that FDNY had already been alerted and the local security didn't want to confuse the firefighters by adding another distress call.

If you're in an emergency you do run around yelling "HELP HELP HELP!" if help is already working to assist. You remain calm and attempt to assist by actually helping or staying the hell out of the way.


The fire department was alerted BUT THE SHOPPERS WERE NOT. Did you miss that part?
 
2012-07-19 11:19:49 AM

simrobert2001: Howard Hughes Corp., which owns the mall, directs security staff to report fires to their supervisor and the supervisor to report fires directly to the FDNY but does not require any of the staff to pull the fire alarm and alert customers of the need to evacuate, said Michael Piazzola, senior general manager with Howard Hughes Corp.


And they needed to be told to WHY!?


I work with people paid *mountains* of money more than these poor saps, and I can assure you that they need to be told to tie their shoes and wipe their noses.

I think one of them needs to be told to wipe his butt too judging by the smell, but I have to draw the line *somewhere*.
 
2012-07-19 11:23:53 AM
For the people thinking pulling a fire alarm will cause a panic, I can assure you that it does not. I used to work in retail and we had some dust get in a smoke detector and set off the alarm. The alarm is blasting, do you think people evacuated? No, they kept right on shopping. We once had police officers running through the aisles with bomb-sniffing dogs and people continued to shop. The only way to get people to evacuate is to use a PA system, and even then you'll have some who don't want to go. We've had tornado warnings where we were trying to get everyone to go to a certain spot in the store and they tried to continue shopping.
 
2012-07-19 11:35:33 AM

tacojohn: We've had tornado warnings where we were trying to get everyone to go to a certain spot in the store and they tried to continue shopping.


"Can I help you get to the tornado shelter, sir?"
"No, I'm just looking, thanks."
"Seriously, sir, there's a tornado in the area..."
"I think I've found the section I need, just checking out these polo shirts on sale."
 
2012-07-19 11:54:24 AM
and here is the fix for those bums....

charterguideservice.com
 
2012-07-19 12:06:49 PM
Not to pick nits, Subby but, technically speaking, if you haven't called the Fire Department the fire is not yet a "3-alarm" blaze. It is, in fact, a zero-alarm fire.
 
2012-07-19 12:11:56 PM

Highroller48: Not to pick nits, Subby but, technically speaking, if you haven't called the Fire Department the fire is not yet a "3-alarm" blaze. It is, in fact, a zero-alarm fire.


They called 911 immediately. They just didn't activate the fire alarm.
 
2012-07-19 12:21:48 PM
Can you yell fire in a crowded shopping pier??
 
2012-07-19 12:23:03 PM
I once worked for a large company that had a safety meeting every week. I had been there for 18 years when they had a meeting on fire safety. That was the first time I ever heard the company policy that we are not allowed to use the fire extinguishers. We were to notify maintenance if we saw a fire. A couple of weeks later, we had a meeting on how to use a fire extinguisher, presumably in case we had one at home.
 
2012-07-19 12:25:25 PM
I'm confused, I thought just about every building has automatic detection systems that sense smoke and set off the alarm automatically. Did this building not have smoke detectors tied to the alarm system? Why does the alarm have to be triggered manually?
 
2012-07-19 12:30:38 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Piazzola told a Community Board 1 meeting Tuesday night that the security workers did not want to confuse firefighters by sounding an additional call for help through the alarm system after calling 911, according to several people who attended the meeting.

The three-story pier building also has no public address system, Piazzola added, so the mall was evacuated by word of mouth alone. The shocking revelation stunned those who attended the CB1 meeting.

"Thank God nobody got hurt," John Fratta, chairman of CB1's Seaport/Civic Center Committee, said after the meeting. "We were surprised."

So, nobody got hurt, the fire department was called, the fire was put out, the customers were evacuated.

Maybe, and I'm just speculating here, the mall cops did exactly the right thing. If they'd hit the fire alarm, maybe there would have been panic. Maybe the fire department would have gotten confused. We'll never know. But we do know what they did worked.

As far as 'what if it had been more serious', well, if it had been more serious they would have taken different steps. They didn't need a panicked rush to the doors, so they didn't cause one.


Fire alarm prompting people to leave the building. Cute.

There was a fire in las vegas where people refused to leave as the fire itself charged towards them. Mgm I think
 
2012-07-19 12:34:41 PM
I was in Wegmans (big grocery store) when the fire alarm went off once. Now having grown up in the public school system, I know what to do in the event of a surprise fire drill. I moved my cart to the side of the aisle and headed for the closest exit. No one else did. They just continued shopping. The alarm was ear-splittingly loud and complete with flashing lights, so it was impossible to ignore. Yet ignore it everyone did. If there was any kind of anouncement or instruction, it was impossible to hear. I stood by the exit and watched as long as I could before my head got too asplodey from the noise. It must have been a false alarm, but had it been an actual fire, I can picture everyone in the place burning to a crisp in the middle of frozen foods, digging through the coolers for the Chunkey Monkey.

It was very strange.
 
2012-07-19 12:50:53 PM

ForgotMyTowel: I'm confused, I thought just about every building has automatic detection systems that sense smoke and set off the alarm automatically. Did this building not have smoke detectors tied to the alarm system? Why does the alarm have to be triggered manually?


Probably depends on where in the mall the fire started. A good example would be the loading docks...auto sensors there would be a nightmare. You'd have an alarm every time a poorly-tuned diesel truck pulled in.
 
2012-07-19 01:22:05 PM

LarryDan43: If he had pulled it, we'd be reading that he was fired for not following company policy.


Trifecta: denied.
 
2012-07-19 01:23:57 PM
people read their company policies?
i would have just assumed it was in there and pulled it.

that's all kind of stupid
 
2012-07-19 02:06:12 PM

Deathfrogg: LarryDan43: If he had pulled it, we'd be reading that he was fired for not following company policy.


Exactly right. He would not have been following proper company procedure and his firing would have been perfectly justifiable.

And the TeaBaggers would have been nodding their heads at the wonders of the free market.


The TeaBaggers are Conservatives. They don't believe in free markets.
 
2012-07-19 02:09:46 PM

Highroller48: Probably depends on where in the mall the fire started. A good example would be the loading docks...auto sensors there would be a nightmare. You'd have an alarm every time a poorly-tuned diesel truck pulled in.


The fire was "outside" of the building, in the electrical transformers on the underside of the pier. I agree with your assessment, though, since they do pull boats right up to that place.

JohnCarter: Can you yell fire in a crowded shopping pier??


You can yell "fire" in a crowded theater, assuming there is an actual fire.
 
2012-07-19 02:24:39 PM
Head....exploding...from....mass....stupidity...demonstrated...in....a rticle...
 
2012-07-19 02:39:42 PM

Highroller48: ForgotMyTowel: I'm confused, I thought just about every building has automatic detection systems that sense smoke and set off the alarm automatically. Did this building not have smoke detectors tied to the alarm system? Why does the alarm have to be triggered manually?

Probably depends on where in the mall the fire started. A good example would be the loading docks...auto sensors there would be a nightmare. You'd have an alarm every time a poorly-tuned diesel truck pulled in.


Nope. Appropriate sensors for the area would not cause it to false alarm. They have heat only sensors for places like that so that if the ambient temp suddenly climbs to a ridiculous amount (like 130F) it sounds. The place can be full of relatively cool smoke and it wont even twitch.

/works for a fire protection company
//my forehead still has a mark from my desk after reading this story. Morans!
 
2012-07-19 04:44:08 PM

Pathman: people read their company policies?
i would have just assumed it was in there and pulled it.

that's all kind of stupid


I worked as a mall security guard for three weeks. My interview was over two days, one of which was spent answering inane, repetitive questions to make sure I wasn't a psychopath. There was another two days of mandatory, unpaid training where they went through EVERY SINGLE regulation in their manual, as well as procedures for emergencies. I don't remember fire, but bomb threat was evacuate everyone else, then we got to stay behind. And off the radio, because that might make it go boom. Then they started paying us minimum wage.

And we weren't there to guard, but to provide directions to the Starbucks, and politely ask the homeless to not steal change from the fountain. First conversation after i started was
Older guard: "You got the bomb talk?"
Me: "Yup."
OG: "If it happens, you gonna help or run?"
Me: "Run."
OG: "OK, ya' ain't stupid. I'll show you the fastest way out without a camera. Good spot to smoke, too."

So, without RTFA, I'm not surprised they didn't take more initiative.
 
2012-07-19 04:53:09 PM

xrayspx: The shocking revelation stunned those who attended the CB1 meeting.

Wait until they attend the CB4 meeting.


The meeting will be held at city hall in Lowcashi1.ytimg.com
 
2012-07-19 05:11:02 PM

mc6809e: spentmiles: I assume people accept a certain amount of personal responsibility when they go to places like this.

Until it gets to a court-room.

Employers don't want their employees doing anything on the job that might make the employer liable.

Suppose someone was hurt because they ran away in response to the fire alarm. Who is going to be made to answer for injuring that poor mall patron?

Ridiculous. But ridiculous never stopped a lawyer.


www.jamesjoyce.co.uk

pretty obvious from all the comments that most farkers have never had to work for an uber corp. if they had, they'd know that you can't do shiat without a supervisors permission. you aren't paid to think for yourself - you are paid to do as you are told.
 
2012-07-19 05:18:27 PM
My fire alarm CSB:

I was staying at a hotel for a concert when the fire alarm went off at around 2 A.M. All of the other guests simply stood in the hallway outside of their rooms, where the alarms were LOUDER, including families with crying 3-5 year olds. It ended up being a false alarm (smoker smoking in a non-smoking room), but if it wasn't, all of those idiots would've gotten trapped on the 3rd floor and burned. There were maybe 10 other people that evacuated outside other than us, out of probably 300 rooms and it was booked full thanks to the concert.
 
2012-07-19 06:04:22 PM

mc6809e: Suppose someone was hurt because they ran away in response to the fire alarm. Who is going to be made to answer for injuring that poor mall patron?

Ridiculous. But ridiculous never stopped a lawyer.



No, but a jury that uses Common Sense can.

.

.

Oh, who am I kidding?
www.myconfinedspace.com
 
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