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(WLSAM)   57% of Americans think college is a bad investment. That's like 3 out of every 4 people   (wlsam.com) divider line 178
    More: Fail, Americans, U.S. Department of Education, Connecticut College, surveys, colleges  
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4820 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jul 2012 at 10:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-18 06:46:03 PM
Depends what your degree is. If its an artsy degree then yeah but if its a degree with a shortage of workers then no, its a good investment.
 
2012-07-18 06:55:02 PM
Considering you can barely get a job pushing a broom these days without at least a BA, good luck
 
2012-07-18 09:06:38 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering you can barely get a job pushing a broom these days without at least a BA, good luck


Unless you go into a trade. My older brother works in heating and air conditioning installation and repair and is doing quite well. Same goes for a plumber friend of mine who is booked up for the next year on various jobs.
 
2012-07-18 09:07:45 PM
stupid subby... it's REALLY 4 out of 3.
 
2012-07-18 09:19:54 PM
Do these people think college is a bad investment in general or for themselves in particular. Because if it's the latter, I'll say 57% is way too low of a number. That journalism degree is really going to come in handy when you're living in a homeless camp thinly veiled as a protest. Just skip the student loan debt and spend an extra 4 years panhandling.
 
2012-07-18 09:40:05 PM
From a cost-benefit point-of-view, tuition money applied to a business venture might be a better investment.
 
2012-07-18 10:12:48 PM
It was technically a good investment for me because the wages I've earned since graduating and getting a job with my degree as a pre-req amount to more than the cost of tuition, books, lodging, etc... But if I had it to do all over again I would have gone into personal training.
 
2012-07-18 10:13:32 PM

miss diminutive: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering you can barely get a job pushing a broom these days without at least a BA, good luck

Unless you go into a trade. My older brother works in heating and air conditioning installation and repair and is doing quite well. Same goes for a plumber friend of mine who is booked up for the next year on various jobs.


You can also get up to a masters degree in HVAC.
 
2012-07-18 10:14:11 PM

TheHighlandHowler: From a cost-benefit point-of-view, tuition money applied to a business venture might be a better investment.


Or the lotto. 40,000 quick picks a year, one of them has to win, right?
 
2012-07-18 10:15:16 PM

miss diminutive: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering you can barely get a job pushing a broom these days without at least a BA, good luck

Unless you go into a trade. My older brother works in heating and air conditioning installation and repair and is doing quite well. Same goes for a plumber friend of mine who is booked up for the next year on various jobs.


Came here to say pretty much this. There are plenty of ways to build a life. College is one of them. Trade school is another. Apprenticeship is another. Its too bad we are so obsessed on college. Unfortunately most wingnuts hate education no matter where it comes from.
 
2012-07-18 10:15:18 PM
Best 15 bucks I've ever spent.
 
2012-07-18 10:16:21 PM
TheHighlandHowler: From a cost-benefit point-of-view, tuition money applied to a business venture might be a better investment.

Banks will loan you virtually unlimited amounts of money (backed by the taxpayers, of course) to throw away on a potentially worthless degree. (Note: I'm not saying all degrees are worthless. Some are, some aren't.) Getting the same bank to loan you the same amount of money to start a business would be virtually impossible for an 18 year-old with just a HS diploma and little or no credit.
 
2012-07-18 10:17:32 PM
I feel bad when I see people who took out thousands of dollars in student loans for University of Phoenix or DeVry or whatever. Bad idea jeans.
 
2012-07-18 10:17:42 PM
Point02GPA: Best 15 bucks I've ever spent.

lol u went to collage
 
2012-07-18 10:18:38 PM
The idiots from Penn State who keep lionizing Paterno are exhibit A in the argument against a college education.
 
2012-07-18 10:21:30 PM
The nice part is that what these people think isn't too important in the face of real data.

Short version: College remains a sound investment, particularly if you study the right subjects.
 
2012-07-18 10:22:14 PM
kxs401: I feel bad when I see people who took out thousands of dollars in student loans for University of Phoenix or DeVry or whatever. Bad idea jeans.

Especially because they never figure out that UoP is skimming the chunk of student loan cash that's supposed to go towards "living expenses" rather than tuition.
 
2012-07-18 10:22:35 PM
TheHighlandHowler: From a cost-benefit point-of-view, tuition money applied to a business venture might be a better investment.

Smart people, don't need to go to college. These are the people that naturally seek out knowledge, the types that can just pick up a book and learn how to do something. They will often learn things just for the sake of learning things. They could use that money to start a business in their garage. Or they just become an expert in some sort of trade. Somehow, they will figure out some way to be a success.

// If they actually do go to college, it's because they're going into some field that absolutely requires a degree and some sort of other training. Like a surgeon.

Not so smart people don't need to go to college. Because even if they do make it through college, they just become a not so smart person with a degree. They might know what they were taught, and know it well. But they aren't capable of (or inclined to) pick up new information. Often, their skills stagnate after a while and they get shucked off as things move toward the future.

Somewhere in between those extremes are the people who can't just pick up a book and learn, BUT, aren't dumb as a sack of potatoes either. That's who college is for.
 
2012-07-18 10:23:13 PM
Great. Seven years of college down the drain.
 
2012-07-18 10:23:50 PM
Pffft. Rounding error
 
2012-07-18 10:24:30 PM
Learn your trades, Kids- I know Plumbing, Electrical, Sheetrock (repairing the damage when i do
plumbing and electrical inside walls). I know basic electronics, how to solder, how to use a multimeter
for diagnosing problems. I can cut and fabricate metals. I grew up in a lumberyard so i know a good deal
about lumber. Skiinstructing is strictly a wintertime thing, as is captaining a tour boat during the summer.

Not rich but having all these skills sure makes a difference in these tough times. not to mention that
there's a good bit of fun randomly wrapped up in my year...
 
2012-07-18 10:24:32 PM
Like most things... if you research the market before investing time and money, you're more likely to get a positive return. That's why I only buy $20 scratch-offs at the lottery.
 
2012-07-18 10:24:54 PM

kxs401: I feel bad when I see people who took out thousands of dollars in student loans for University of Phoenix or DeVry or whatever. Bad idea jeans.


Student loans are for later, you can't be worried about that stuff right now. Besides, I need a new car and 25% is a good interest rate. That means I get 75% off right?
 
2012-07-18 10:25:25 PM

Owangotang: The idiots from Penn State who keep lionizing Paterno are exhibit A in the argument against a college education.


Absolutely. They are also exhibit B for some cleansing fire in Happy Valley.
 
2012-07-18 10:26:27 PM
B.S. in physics, M.S. in aerospace engineering. College was hands down the best investment I've ever made in my life. Without it, there is no way that I could do what I do, and I love what I do. In addition, the electives exposed me to anthropology/archaeology and ancient history, which have persisted as hobbies and reading interests decades after the original courses. I know other degrees and experiences can be different, but for me, college was a positive many times over. Were I to advise my younger self, I would recommend it again at quadruple the cost.
 
2012-07-18 10:26:54 PM
My good friend dropped out of college in the first semester. He started studying while he was working. I stayed college and got my BS. I now work for him. I made the wrong call.

/At least I was debt free in the first 3 years after graduation.
 
2012-07-18 10:28:07 PM
People with no direction shouldn't go to college, i.e. liberal arts majors.
They would be better off going to work right away and finding their way slowly, instead of wasting years and thousands on literally nothing to their benefit.

You go to school to train yourself, if you're just going to "broaden" your sphere and hope that you suddenly stop being a useless dipshiat, well good luck with that.
 
2012-07-18 10:29:57 PM
cdn.static.ovimg.com

Stupid dean...
 
2012-07-18 10:29:58 PM

Point02GPA: Best 15 bucks I've ever spent.


Best ten years of my life.
Every year, busloads of Daddy's little princesses would disembark to newfound freedom, get drunk, do stupid things, rinse, repeat.
Condoms saved my life.

Didn't even graduate. Still got a bulletproof job.

How hard is it to earn it before you spend it?
Books should be free. The math and science hasn't changed. What you need to know to be a college grad, you can learn for free on the net, now, anyways.
You could accelerate your knowledge while in HS, work, study, and ace out of a G.E.D. type of diploma anyway, anymore.

It's a scam.

Business is a scam, as well as religion, politics, and textbooks.

Hard work, and self learning is what made Lincoln.
Of course, he went and stuck his dick in crazy.
He wasn't even supposed to be there that night.
 
2012-07-18 10:32:03 PM

lordargent: TheHighlandHowler: From a cost-benefit point-of-view, tuition money applied to a business venture might be a better investment.

Smart people, don't need to go to college. These are the people that naturally seek out knowledge, the types that can just pick up a book and learn how to do something. They will often learn things just for the sake of learning things. They could use that money to start a business in their garage. Or they just become an expert in some sort of trade. Somehow, they will figure out some way to be a success.

// If they actually do go to college, it's because they're going into some field that absolutely requires a degree and some sort of other training. Like a surgeon.
.


Pretty much me right there - I have always been an autodidact, but the startup route would be an absolute failure, as I have no entrepreneurial spirit/skills at all, and any business I started up would need someone with actual business skills. I want to work in a lab for a living, and you pretty much need a degree (a graduate one actually, in my field), to do that. Starting a business is of no interest to me. OTOH, working in a lab doing SCIENCE! all day lights up my pleasure centers like someone sprayed them with happy juice.

My sister, on the other hand, wants to be a professional baker but my parents are making her get a degree in case that doesn't work out. I think that apprenticing with a baker would do just as fine and cost a lot less, but my parents want her to get a degree in dietetics just in case. *eyeroll*

/I would love to spend the rest of my life doing lab work in something related to my degree. Don't even want to be promoted too much - minions would be great, but I don't want too much responsibility and I like having someone giving me guidelines as to what to do.
// Know what I want from life, just trying to get it
 
2012-07-18 10:32:43 PM

pippi longstocking: People with no direction shouldn't go to college


How to pick up college girls.
"What's your major?"
"Psychology* "

* Daddy Issues. Will fark on a first date.
First date = walking her drunk ass home and getting sweaty.
 
2012-07-18 10:34:10 PM

gingerjet: Unfortunately most wingnuts hate education no matter where it comes from.


The more education you have, the better your critical thinking skills tend to be. Critical thinkers tend to make up their own minds about political issues. This is inconsistent with the political party system, which wants you to let the parties do your thinking for you. Therefore, if you have a political party which wants you to blindly follow it, such a political party would have an interest in convincing people that more education is not necessarily a good thing. Just remember that most of the people out there who are downplaying the value of a good education tend to have a significant amount of education themselves. If they can convince you to dumb it down, then it gives them more of an edge over you in the long run.
 
2012-07-18 10:34:36 PM
4 years of undergraduate business degree at a state university cost me about $10,000 from 1980 - 1984.

3 yrs of masters education from 2001-2004 was paid for by my employer for about $20K.

Make 6 figures in housing finance.

Education is a spectacular thing.
 
2012-07-18 10:34:40 PM

madanimalscientist: My sister, on the other hand, wants to be a professional baker


Baker?
Or Cake Decorator?

First one requires science, physics, geometry, algebra, and physical stamina.
Second one requires a walk in refrigerator and an artistic mind.
 
2012-07-18 10:35:31 PM

gingerjet: Its too bad we are so obsessed on college.


Yup. People go no matter the price or quality because I GOTTA GO TO COLLEGE!!! It's good that people are finally starting to take a harder look at the cost/benefit of doing so. Engineering/programming/business/nursing degree from a reputable university? Probably worth it. English degree from Phoenix? Probably not
 
2012-07-18 10:36:51 PM

Fark Me To Tears: gingerjet: Unfortunately most wingnuts hate education no matter where it comes from.

The more education you have, the better your critical thinking skills tend to be. Critical thinkers tend to make up their own minds about political issues. This is inconsistent with the political party system, which wants you to let the parties do your thinking for you. Therefore, if you have a political party which wants you to blindly follow it, such a political party would have an interest in convincing people that more education is not necessarily a good thing. Just remember that most of the people out there who are downplaying the value of a good education tend to have a significant amount of education themselves. If they can convince you to dumb it down, then it gives them more of an edge over you in the long run.


So vote Republican?

/ kidding
// both parties love the mindless sheeple
 
2012-07-18 10:38:40 PM
My oldest son went into a plumbing apprenticeship out of school, my 2nd is in an honors program for mechanical/aerospace engineering. Each is in the exact right place for them
 
2012-07-18 10:39:05 PM
Everyone should be issued a permanent Etsy account along with their SSN. Let's bootstrap this economy away from the dollar and onto the homemade jewelry standard.
 
2012-07-18 10:39:13 PM
My ex has an accounting degree and has been fired from every job she's ever had and can still get a job. If you can deal with the monotony of spreadsheets and all that I suggest it. Think about it, every business needs a book keeper or accountant. Me, I've been in the semiconductor maintenance industry tor 22 years and lost my job 9 months ago with no real prospects since the US industry has shrunk so much. My only prospect is spending 2 months straight on a contract job 2500 miles away from my daughter. Should have gotten into the plumbing trade, have many friends who own their businesses and aren't stressed out.
 
2012-07-18 10:39:43 PM

madanimalscientist: lordargent: TheHighlandHowler: From a cost-benefit point-of-view, tuition money applied to a business venture might be a better investment.

Smart people, don't need to go to college. These are the people that naturally seek out knowledge, the types that can just pick up a book and learn how to do something. They will often learn things just for the sake of learning things. They could use that money to start a business in their garage. Or they just become an expert in some sort of trade. Somehow, they will figure out some way to be a success.

// If they actually do go to college, it's because they're going into some field that absolutely requires a degree and some sort of other training. Like a surgeon.
.

Pretty much me right there - I have always been an autodidact, but the startup route would be an absolute failure, as I have no entrepreneurial spirit/skills at all, and any business I started up would need someone with actual business skills. I want to work in a lab for a living, and you pretty much need a degree (a graduate one actually, in my field), to do that. Starting a business is of no interest to me. OTOH, working in a lab doing SCIENCE! all day lights up my pleasure centers like someone sprayed them with happy juice.

My sister, on the other hand, wants to be a professional baker but my parents are making her get a degree in case that doesn't work out. I think that apprenticing with a baker would do just as fine and cost a lot less, but my parents want her to get a degree in dietetics just in case. *eyeroll*

/I would love to spend the rest of my life doing lab work in something related to my degree. Don't even want to be promoted too much - minions would be great, but I don't want too much responsibility and I like having someone giving me guidelines as to what to do.
// Know what I want from life, just trying to get it


An AA with a few business classes (ie, an AA you'd want to use to xfer to a business college at some university) could do people like that well. At least you find out how much you really need to know, adn the critical things to deal with and know about.
 
2012-07-18 10:40:22 PM
Meh. You can make decent money driving a truck or working an oil rig in North Dakota. The work is hard and the hours suck, but it's more than you'll make as an Liberal Arts major at Directional State.

/if we're going strictly from a financial standpoint
 
2012-07-18 10:41:44 PM

Fark Me To Tears: The more education you have, the better your critical thinking skills tend to be. Critical thinkers tend to make up their own minds about political issues.


I seem to recall that in many cases it's been found that the more education you have, the more politically partisan you are. (e.g., educated Republicans are more conservative than average, and educated liberals are more liberal than average.)
 
2012-07-18 10:42:21 PM
Most Americans don't even care enough about high education to work out the difference between college and university.

If it gives you a degree, it's a university.
If it gives you a diploma, it's a college.
If it gives you a job, it's a tech school.

/making broad generalisations for the sake of a punchline
 
2012-07-18 10:43:56 PM

Rapmaster2000: You can make decent money driving a truck or working an oil rig in North Dakota.


This prospect is becoming more and more appealing to me. Bad hours and hard work don't faze me too much, but being in North Dakota does
 
2012-07-18 10:44:59 PM

Bondith: Most Americans don't even care enough about high education to work out the difference between college and university.

If it gives you a degree, it's a university.
If it gives you a diploma, it's a college.
If it gives you a job, it's a tech school.

/making broad generalisations for the sake of a punchline


That's more of a Canadian thing, the difference between college and university. In the states, a university is just a collection of colleges, and both colleges and universities award degrees.
 
2012-07-18 10:45:35 PM

pippi longstocking: People with no direction shouldn't go to college, i.e. liberal arts majors.
They would be better off going to work right away and finding their way slowly, instead of wasting years and thousands on literally nothing to their benefit.

You go to school to train yourself, if you're just going to "broaden" your sphere and hope that you suddenly stop being a useless dipshiat, well good luck with that.


This.
 
2012-07-18 10:47:15 PM

BigJake: Rapmaster2000: You can make decent money driving a truck or working an oil rig in North Dakota.

This prospect is becoming more and more appealing to me. Bad hours and hard work don't faze me too much, but being in North Dakota does


The ND thing can be very lucrative, but your living conditions, hours, and work conditions suck. You're in a mancamp, the hours are long and odd, and it's freezing cold 6 months of the year. There's also nothing to do but pound beers in a parking lot with a bunch of dudes and bang hookers. However, you can make six figures quick, or so I've heard. I don't know anyone that's done it.
 
2012-07-18 10:47:18 PM
The other % thinks it great as they are not flipping the bill.
 
2012-07-18 10:47:21 PM
Good luck find a job without a college education:

tipstrategies.com

americancenturyblog.com
 
2012-07-18 10:52:19 PM
Do college graduates still earn on average $1 million more over a lifetime than non-graduates?

How high would inflation rates have to be for a college degree to NOT be a good investment?
 
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